Now that Coles and Woolworths have a plastic bag ban in place in Victoria - where are you guys getting your bags from? What is the best value reusable bag? Does the $0.99 bag last at least 6.6X longer than the $0.15 bag?
My local Coles/Woolworths aren't giving the $0.15 bags for free.
Go to Woolworths and grab their free re-usable ones
They are not very good the free 15c ones the handle broke on my one before we even got to the car
Anyone notice they're made in Germany…
The plastic ban must be working, lots of people are buying the new bags that are thicker and take longer to break down.
Around my shopping area where there is a Woolies, Coles and Aldi within 50 metres of each other, I have seen a marked increase in people walking to the shops with their reusable bags.
Do you notice if they come out with bin liners in among their shopping?
Yeah, biodegradable ones.
It makes me sick because you have to use the bags 200 times before they are better than the environment than a single use bag. I bet the supermarkets never considered letting people use their cardboard boxes they would throw out because they only care about ripping people off.
This is what gets me. It's obviously a cash grab buy the big stores, yet you have geniuses like Tranter here lapping up their marketing BS like it's gospel. But even then their logic falls apart:
Where do you get your figures?
The Woolies near me has a BWS next door with reusable boxes outside for customers.
Just get 10 of the "bag for good" bags from Woolworths. It will cost you $10, and you will be set for life. If they break, get soiled, or anything else happens, you just go and swap it for another one at the service desk for free.
I can see Woolworths will regret the decision to offer this deal, but they can't backtrack on the lifetime replacement policy without serious backlash. I use them for all my groceries now (including Coles and Aldi) as well as for carting random things around. If they break, I'll just get a new one.
@marlor: Yep, it's easy.
Do you think we will get to a point where a store, say Coles, will refuse to put your groceries into a competitors bag?
I wouldn't put it past the big guys to do that.
I've been overseas for much of the past decade, in countries which have had this policy in place (some for years and years). No shop has ever refused a bag because of its branding (but I've seen them refuse to fill soiled/damaged bags that some people try to use).
And, to be honest, why would Coles refuse to put the goods in a Woolworths "bag for good"? If the bag wears out more quickly because it's used for Coles shopping, then that causes Woolworths (their competitor) to have to replace the bag more quickly. It's in Coles' interests for that to happen.
They make money recycling those cardboard boxes.
I can see Woolworths will regret the decision to offer this deal
I highly doubt there'd be any regret.
The amount they're saving from not supplying normal bags alone means that they'll need to be replacing at least 170 million of those $0.99 bags each year to even consider a potential loss!
And even then, we're not even including the initial money made from selling those $0.99 bags! They wouldn't cost $0.99 to manufacture.
My local Coles at Carindale QLD provides an ample selection of cardboard boxes behind the checkouts (granted this was provided before the plastic bag ban was in place). Perhaps it differs store by store.
My local grocery (mum and pop store) has also shifted to providing a "packing" area with boxes.
This thread has encouraged me to ask my local Woolworths to consider making boxes available for use. If we don't ask, we'll never know. Perhaps they themselves haven't considered it.
@smigglejiggle: Recycling is a net negative cost for everyone. Re-use is the ONLY green/environmental option.
Lots of options; our preference is for the cloth-type reusable bags. Drop them back in the boot of the car when empty.
In our community, there is a 'Boomerang Bags' initiative where volunteer groups use donated materials and sew bags. Those are made available in our local supermarket (IGA) to use and either re-use or return, with users provided with the option to donate a gold coin.
If we do forget or are not near the car, we buy one for $0.15 as our penalty, and try to re-use that. No problems.
I wish more people see the plastic bag ban like you and your community do.
Our community actually started this about a year ago; didn't wait for the plastic bag 'ban' to start.
And the local IGA (and plenty of other local retailers) are viewed in a positive light by supporting it.
And I wish more people actually looked into the science and numbers behind these plastic bag bans.
https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/the-crazy-tru…
The article focuses primarily on those green bags, but it does support the use of alternates:
Calico bags made from cotton are the only reusable bags likely to be better for the environment than single-use plastic.
It’s just one of the traps people trying to do the right thing can fall into.
But that doesn’t mean we should continue using plastic bags.
The issue is that the majority of the population are only seeing one 'solution', being to spend money and buy a plastic bag.
@GG57: People who wanted to use calico bags and other sustainable alternatives already could use them. The plastic bag ban is only going to change people who used disposable plastic bags to using reusable plastic bags.
The bag ban is a waste of time. According to Pittsburgh Tribune Review (PA). June 30, 2014.
In Denmark, since the introduction of a charge on plastic bags in 1993, the usage of plastic bags has been halved from approximately 800 million bags to 400 million bags, or only 80 bags per person annually. The People’s Republic of China banned lightweight plastic bags and imposed a charge for thicker, bigger bags, and reported a 66% drop in plastic bag usage.
http://www.freemalaysiatoday.com/category/opinion/2017/01/11…
Don't know if you're trying to support the plastic bag ban but your link says:
Unfortunately, the regulations and policies currently in place seem to mostly encourage the replacement of plastic bags with paper bags, purportedly “biodegradable” bags and cheap non-woven shopping bags. None of these are environmentally sustainable alternatives.
And
Oxo-degradable, oxo-biodegradable, oxy-degradable, oxy-biodegradable, and degradable plastic bags are merely plastic bags with a chemical additive. This chemical additive breaks the plastic molecular ties and expedites the disintegration of the plastic. Over time, these bags break down into smaller, more toxic petro-polymers, which eventually contaminate our soil and water, and enter the animal and human food chain.
And
It is thus reiterated that paper bags, non-woven reusable shopping bags and most brands of “biodegradable” plastic bags do not reduce waste or harm to the environment.
I support the bag ban, its not perfect and its a start. But its not a waste of time. We have to start somewhere. Initially I didn't like it either but you get used it after while then you released that you used stupid amount of bags just for your laziness or convenience.
@boomramada: You're free to support whatever you want, but personally I'd prefer efforts went to things which actually helped, and not things which only make shops money and people feel good.
"66% drop in plastic bag usage."
so the other 34% are now buying the new, thicker bags??
Exactly what I was about to say! Those newer, thicker plastic bags are more than 3x as thick as the single use ones, so the decrease in numbers doesn't mean a decrease in the plastic. There is much more plastic being used now than before!
I agree that reusable bags use more resources, and MAY be 'neutral' from a resources perspective.
The bigger issue, is the disposal of plastic bags. If people are upset over $0.15 for a bag, perhaps fewer bags end up in Oceans and kill marine life. Worse yet, microplastic, consumed by marine life, which we then in turn consume.
It's always the case of, a few people ruin it for the rest of us. But if we all take a stand (like Europe did with renewables), perhaps other countries will follow suit.
For bin liners, I now purchase biodegradable bags (cost 10% more than non-biodegradable bags).
And infinitely more than free bags. But anyway, there's no point to buying biodegradable bags unless you litter them. The mass of non-biodegradeable waste within, is many orders of magnitude more than the bin liner itself, and it all goes to landfill.
But if we all take a stand (like Europe did with renewables), perhaps other countries will follow suit
The issue is caused by people disposing of their waste by throwing it in rivers. We don't do that in the First World and the culprits haven't followed suit on that.
It's really not that difficult to carry around a reusable shopping bag with you everywhere. A lot of them fold up so take very little space too so why all the uproar?
woolies go "we've banned single use plastic", then you go inside and literally everything is wrapped in plastic.
So have you raised this issue with them or is it a smokescreen for your issues?
How about the fact that the plastic bag ban is a smokescreen for Woolies and Coles cash grab? I mean, you think they don't know how much plastic they use?
Just buy the Woolworths "bag for good". It's 99c and is guaranteed for lifetime replacement.
It will cost them more than that to replace the bags a few times, I'm sure. But I'll certainly be getting my money's worth.
@marlor: First I've heard of this, but this actually sounds pretty good. Better than indefinitely buying $0.15 bags over and over and I can use it for the planned weekly shopping.
Agree - and you are also helping the environment and the food source.
I seriously don’t understand why so much noise over something that will make the world better place.
@Skramit: This is the big supermarket's marketing team's wages paying for themselves, when they convince people that being ripped off by them is a good thing.
@HighAndDry: you're all over this thread saying it's a cash grab and you haven't even familiarised yourself with the bags that are on offer?
Smh.
Is the slogan actually that or did you remove the most important word, i.e. "bag"?
Does it matter if it's a plastic bag or plastic wrapping that ends up in the environment?
I like to think I can transport my milk to the car without a disposable bag, but I wouldn’t want to carry it in a bucket. So I’m fine with plastic around my products, just don’t need it for transport as well ok.
Do you keep plastic bags in your pocket everywhere you go?
Phones, wallet, keys and coins is annoying enough for me already.
Maybe keep those annoying items in a reusable bag? Two birds with one stone.
Two birds with one stone.
Would it make three birds if I then bought chicken?
Apparently it's very difficult….
These Ikea foldable bags. Compact enough to fit into your pocket or bag for all of $2
https://www.ikea.com/au/en/catalog/products/00330492/
Bunnings too have bags like these, at $1.50 I believe
Yes a perfect solution but i believe the problem is not the bag, just the need to have a whinge. Unfortunately some people just cannot accept change. As babies they cried when their parents moved the toys in their cot and it's been a lifelong problem now
The problem is that the plastic bag ban isn't good for the environment, isn't good for consumers, and only benefits the shops as additional revenue, the government to be able to brag about yet another feel-good gesture that has no practical benefit, environmental groups (for the same PR benefit as the govt), and people like you apparently who fall for all their BS and get to act all superior to others.
The problem is not the plastic bag ban.
It is what people see as the alternate (i.e. longer use plastic bags, sold by the supermarkets). There are other alternatives.
@GG57: The solution is also not the plastic bag ban. So it's basically a waste of money that's good for big shops and bad for customers. People could already use whatever alternative bags they wanted.
This.
I got 2 boot tidies from Aldi ages ago. Each has 4 compartments. They have handle at each end so you can lift them out. Leave shopping loose in the trolly. Wheel it to car and offload into the tidies.
That may work for some people. But if you need to park on the street and walk upstairs to your apartment, then you're going to struggle to get all that stuff out of the boot.
I usually take my 30L Peak Design backpack shopping, and maybe one or two of the reusable green bag things if I remember them.
Oh, and to people like trantor, this just in:
https://au.news.yahoo.com/staggering-amount-coles-woolworths…
Supermarket giants Coles and Woolworths appear set to rake in around $71 million in gross profit from the sale of their 15c heavy duty plastic carriers following the ban on single-use plastic bags.
Queensland University of Technology’s Professor Gary Mortimer has calculated the big retailers are also saving about $170 million a year by not providing shoppers with free plastic bags.
But yeah, lap it up about how the big stores are doing it "for the environment". Even for woolies and coles, $241million total increase to the bottom line isn't nothing.
Nicely written article, look professional, so what Gary Mortimer try to say its time to buy shares in Woolies and Coles? Seriously!
I like to see how he calculate his $71M from this. That by assuming we all go shopping and buy a 15c bag each time? For last 5 years in SA and ACT after bag banned, I don't think I have purchased a single bag.
Plus I doubt it, before the bag ban, single use bags cost any money to major supermarkets, they probably written off as sales related expenses in TAX.
I like to see how he calculate his $71M from this. That by assuming we all go shopping and buy a 15c bag each time? For last 5 years in SA and ACT after bag banned, I don't think I have purchased a single bag.
Please allow me to recalculate that estimate to factor in the importance of you not buying any bags. And then we can discuss the difference.
Let's say you use 7 bags per week @ $0.15 = $1.05.
Of course, there's 52 weeks each year, so a total of $54.60.
$71,000,000 - $54.60 = $7,099,945.40.
After rounding, it becomes….. $71M! See the difference you've made?
I hardly see anyone buying 15c bags these days when I go shopping in ACT/SA anymore.
So based on that, it be only few lazy ignorant who silly enough to buy 7 bags per week for rest of your life.
If you thinking Coles and Woolies doing this to make profit, you could just stop buying them to make a point? or just pure stupid?
Fortunately, there are only very few that still cry about the whole thing.
Stats speak it self;
The survey of 2200 shoppers by research firm Canstar Blue has found 71 per cent agree with the decision
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/plastic-bag-…
So what I can say is build a bridge and get over it. Stop believing in stupid article written by some stupid professor.
Stop believing in stupid article written by some stupid professor.
This professor probably works with the same professors that write about plastic waste, so who's believing what?
I've been buying the $0.15 bags whenever I decide to go shopping after work so that I can actually carry home my purchases as I walk home. Complain as much as you want - I don't carry spare shopping bags with me everywhere I go and I'm more than happy to pay for those bags. So bite me!
@bobbified:
haha suck to be in Melb/Syd.
Well you could always get something like this https://www.amazon.com.au/Eco-Friendly-Reusable-Foldable-Sho…
The videos on that website are actually really disheartening. I only saw one or two trolleys in the first video where the thicker non-woven poly bags were used… everyone else was using the thicker plastic bags! The second video was simply about how the 15c bags tore after one use! Like wtf.
Do you know if those $71M / $170M numbers factor in the labour cost? I can't see a link to the actual study to check.
Using a re-usable bag can significantly slow down the checkout process compared to the optimized dispenser full of single-use bags.
A while back I recall the shops claiming it would be revenue neutral due to labour costs. You could probably file a complaint with ASIC if that's not the case.
I can't imagine labour costs factoring into this unless the checkouts were working at 100% before and they've had to hire more people. At least the Woolies/Coles that I go to, it's almost never 100% busy, and in my experience using a reusable bag takes about 5 seconds more per customer. They use more than that on small talk (which is fine) per customer anyway.
When I go to there are always queues and no small talk…
It's hurting the impulse buy. The amount of items I can buy at each shop is now limited by the bags I've got on me (don't see the point of buying more reusable bags when I've already got plenty of them at home).
It wouldn't be as much of a nuisance if Coles and Wollies also provide free alternatives (e.g. leave empty cardboard boxes out like Aldi, Harris Farm and Bunnings do, or to provide free paper bags like Harris Farm does).
Exactly my point… it's hurting them because I'm going to buy less!
Apparently there has been a rise in people just stealing baskets too now!
Agreed. It’s definitely impacted my impulse buying. I’m going to “borrow” a basket next time and see what happens. Hahaha
I have five bags from the brand SAKitToMe that I keep in the console in my car and my handbag. They fold down into a small pouch like the Ikea ones above and can hold up to 20kgs each. I've had them for a few years now and I use them for everything. Whenever I think they need a wash I just chuck them in the washing machine with everything else and line dry them.
I don't understand all the fuss about plastic bags. It's true, everything is wrapped in plastic and that needs to change, but we have to start somewhere and if consumers won't support changes like these, it doesn't motivate businesses to try to make other environmental improvements.
Screw paying for a bag. I'll just carry my groceries no matter how difficult it is.
Gotta use those stickyfingers.
We had my mother made some bags from left over material she had (retired seamstress/dress maker) - if it gets dirty, we'll flip em inside out and throw it in the wash
Designer shopping bags may become a thing…
They already are; readily available in a range of designs / styles.
And I prefer not to advertise Coles or Woolies on mine.
Woolworths 99c "Bag for Good"
They feature a support in the base.
If the bag ever breaks, WW will replace the bag for free.
In theory you are purchasing a bag for life.
The 15c bags they sell, these are the same as the UK bags for life.
I emigrated with a dozen of them from Aldi UK and they're around 8-9 years old and are used at least weekly. Not had a failure so far so yes it's a no brainer.
I can't believe this has upset so many people! Aussies are tough usually not whingers about bags!
I don't understand why so many people are okay with bigger stores making a cash grab and ripping off customers under the guise of "think of the environment!"
Read above - they're expected to save $170million a year, and make $71million a year from selling these bags.
Supermarkets 1
Customers 0
Only if customers DON'T re-use the bags that they are (now) paying for. If we all re-used them, the stores would not make the ongoing sales.
As seaphim2017 explains above, these bags can last for a long time if we accept the change and re-use them.
Only if customers DON'T re-use the bags that they are (now) paying for.
You realise that if we're using this logic, people could just reuse the disposable plastic bags that were free before, right? (And that many people did reuse them, right?)
As seaphim2017 explains above, these bags can last for a long time if we accept the change and re-use them.
Even the lowest quality, thinnest, reusable bags need to be re-used something like 200-600 times to actually be a net benefit to the environment over disposable plastic bags. Good luck with that. Say you do shopping twice a week. You need to use the bag for about 2 years, at least. And if it's sturdier? Well, good luck - you need to hold onto that for even longer.
How many reusable bags have you used for even over a year?
@HighAndDry: There are a lot of comments on this forum, but I have mentioned earlier that we use material (cotton) bags; we have four or so in the car and a couple at home, and have used those for about 3 years.
Yes, occasionally we forget or don't have access to those bags and humbly use a plastic bag, as we aren't perfect.
Re the longer life plastic bags being sold, seraphim2017 stated above "… they're around 8-9 years old and are used at least weekly…".
but I have mentioned earlier that we use material (cotton) bags; we have four or so in the car and a couple at home, and have used those for about 3 years.
I read those and I think you're doing great by the environment. But as you also pointed out, you could already do this before the plastic bag ban, and before shops phased out disposable plastic bags, meaning the new policies do nothing to help.
And re seraphim2017's comment: Again they could have used those without a plastic bag ban, and unfortunately people like yourself and seraphim are outliers. Most people barely reuse them at all, much less the required number of times to break even in terms of environmental cost.
@HighAndDry: Yep, to make the change across a whole population is a huge challenge.
This strategy is to incentivise the change (thus the 'penalty' for provision of further plastic bags). Couple that with the removal of free bags.
Double edged approach to change, working towards a change in behaviour.
Not sure if you recall, but a similar approach when petrol stations offered discount fuel (but only if you did the handling of hazardous materials yourself via the self-serve pump). And now we (almost) all do it.
And the retailer, in both cases, could be seen as the 'winner'.
@GG57: True, but the problem is that this ban isn't incentivizing better behaviour - by far the great majority of people will just buy $0.15 thicker plastic bags. And (I wasn't alive for this I'm pretty sure) but at least petrol stations don't charge me extra for the privilege of pumping my own petrol.
I don't oppose these kinds of things in general - I oppose them when they make no practical difference (or have a practical detriment), do so by misleading the public (as is happening here with the "it's better for the environment" campaigns), and enrich big companies at the cost of the consumer in a way that's anti-competitive (lobbying for legislative changes is the opposite of a free market).
Observe outside a Woolworths or Coles in a business district at lunch time. The majority are now carrying the 1-3 items they grab at lunch. No bag at all. That is a behaviour change.
In some countries all plastic bags are illegal and you can even go to jail over it.
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/taxes-fines-and-jail-time-the-st…
Because I dont mind the guise of saving the environment, as long as the environment is in the agenda for consideration. Being a person that loves our great outdoors, its about the cost of convenience and who really pays for it at the end ..
"Guise" means that it's a pretense. The environment isn't benefiting. Even the flimsiest reusable bags - because of the added resources and energy to create and transport - need to be reused about 200 times to be a net benefit over disposable bags. Good luck with that - because if people could reuse those bags 200 times, they could reuse the free bags for at least a significant fraction of that to begin with and we wouldn't have the current problem.
need to be reused about 200 times to be a net benefit over disposable bags. Good luck with that - because if people could reuse those bags 200 times, they could reuse the free bags for at least a significant fraction of that to begin with and we wouldn't have the current problem.
200 times? Probably 100 times.
Not unachievable, just need to change habits.
I have no problem with people reusing the free bags, if they did that would be great. But the fact that they are given away for free does not encourage that at all.
I just take sandwich bags for my fruit , shove a bit of glad wrap in my pocket so I can wrap a few vegetables and use one of those black jumbo garbage bags to fill up with the rest.
I use both the cloth type reusable bags as well as the popular two wheel pull shopping trolleys that are popular with the elderly. Last week I loaded 30 kilos of oranges in to the shopping trolley and it survived the trip home.
@HighAndDry:
Thought so.
I'll sign off for now and let you guys continue to dramatise the issue.