I Was Charged for Onroad Cost (Rego, CTP, Stamp Duty) Although It Was Advertised for Driveway Price

Hi all,
I need a suggestion from Ozb community.

I bought a car in feb 2018. It was advertised (all rego and ctp included) for 24,999 driveway.
and then the finance was arranged. I thought that they have charged me correctly coz the sales rep sounded genuine.
But, now today, when I was looking the cars tax invoice and loan amount, I saw it to be too high. And I checked the details, it comes out they have charged me for the onroad costs.

What can I do, the sales rep is not willing to help and gives generic answers like it must be included in invoice and I must pay for it to drive away.

What can I do so that I am refunded for the extra money they charged to me.

Is there anyway I can get the ad published on 2018 feb, as I contacted Honda company aswell for the advertisement copy. They told me they dont have it and cant help me further.

please suggest me what I can do to get that money refunded.

edit:Acc to everybody here, it turns out I was robbed. learnt the lesson hard way.

Comments

  •  

    Was it a newspaper ad? You can always call the publisher.

    •  

      It was unfortunately on their own website.

      • +1 vote

        Use archive.org and hope they had it saved.

      • +32 votes

        Are you sure you asked for the advertised drive away price of $24,999? Are you sure the total on the contract and in finance paper work is not $24,999? Transfers are normally shown on the contract when included, but above the total price of $24,999 (deposit + amount due). Are you sure these are on road costs (Dealer deliver if new, stamp duty, GST, transfers, etc) and not loan fees, only visible on your loan contract?

        Google search your licence plate number to find internet ads for your car. Instead of clicking on the link, click the green arrow next to the green web address and click Cached. This will open an old version of the ad that should hopefully still have the price on it. Print, Print to pdf, screen shot, etcetera.

        Make sure the price has drive away near it like this ad and does not have an asterisk (*) next to the price like this ad

        If you are sure you asked for the advertise drive away price and the ad has $24,999 drive away in it, call up the dealership's land line and ask to speak to the general manager or dealer principle. They will be 'busy' (they are not, they are just hoping you will go away), so leave your number and ask for a call back with in two hours or you will be seeking independent legal advice.

        If the GM calls you back in five minutes, tell them your situation but don't embellish or lie. They work with their sales person/finance manager and trust them. If they don't call back in 5 minutes they are waiting you out (dumb) or dealing with another mess (dodgy).

        If they don't call you back in the two hours, write a letter of demand (Overview with example, Creation template). Email a copy to their general email (usually sales@[dealership name].com.au, check their website's contact us page) and send a print out as a registered letter. Don't mention the Australian Financial Complaints Authority (AFCA), Fiance Ombudsmen or anything like that until after you have made your complaint to AFCA

        If they have not provided a reasonable solution with in your requested time frame (say ten business days) contact AFCA. If the ad truly was drive away, you have a copy of that ad and the finance guy (or anyone else) did not disclose that they were charging you more than $24,999, they will be in a world of hurt and you may be extremely lucky (or the outcome may just be fair)!


        Ask for an upfront refund including interest (interest over five years might be an extra $36).

        'Reasonable' solution

        Recalculation of loan at same interest rate with same fees, minus any car charges above the $24,999 drive away price. Refund of the difference already paid (usually by bank transfer). New payments set up at corrected rate. This could be argued as reasonable as the on roads were in the borrowed amount.

        Example

        Car $26,000 including on roads

        Deposit $4,999.

        Interest 8.99% comparison.

        5 years, no balloon.

        Five payments made at $100 per week.

        New payment $96 per week.

        Refund of $20 via bank transfer.

        Direct debit changed to $96 per week.

        New paper work showing new repayments are over the same time period and are at the same rate.

        No extra charges for amending paperwork.


        • Be polite, friendly and non-malicious, but do not accept offers that do not make sense to you.
        • Any agreement that 'needs' to be made right away is not in your advantage to take. Fair offers will stay on the table.
        • Do not change your story or add further detail. Keep it simple and to the facts.
        • Do not post financial details, dealership or brands when asking for help. You are getting advice. Dealerships and brands scan social media for mentions. Do not give away your strategies.

        I have not read past your first post, but there are multiple ways to get your money back. Reply to my reply's if you want further suggestions. If I am wrong about anything please let me know.

        • +3 votes

          Long reply for someone who hasn't read the thread.

          Anyway I've seen the contract and commented below.

          Yes, OP was charged on-road costs though got some basic accessories included.

          Nowhere online mentions the sale period that OP bought from. I can't even find a Whirlpool post to say what a great deal it is (coz for the price to be $2000 less than EOY sales, that would be a great deal.

          Unless OP can find written proof of the advertised price, they're fresh outta luck. It's a he said, she said situation.

          And final price would've been pointed out by:

          A) the salesperson (hopefully)
          B) the aftercare consultant (definitely, as OP bought aftercare), and
          C) the business manager, as its their job to go through the application.

          Unless you think all 3 lied, which would be a huge call in this day and age.

          Oh, and since the vehicle is brand new, not a demonstrator, googling the rego number would be pointless as it wouldn't have been advertised with that number.

          Hell even if it was a demo, 8 months later it wouldn't be showing

          If they don't call back in 5 minutes they are waiting you out (dumb) or dealing with another mess (dodgy).

          Sorry, you expect the GM to call back within 5mins?! You obviously don't appreciate the number of meetings the average GM go to. 5mins is ridiculous to expect or to think is dodgy if it takes longer.

          • +1 vote

            @Spackbace: I have found $25,990 Drive Away with $500 free accessories:

            www.honda.com.au/content/dam/honda/offers/2018/2/HR-V%20Feb%...

            It's not unusual for a dealer add to be lower for a demo.

            Google OP's rego and look up the Google cached car adds

            • +2 votes

              @This Guy: OP had told me they thought it was a weekend special, on the Honda website.
              IE not a demo..

              OPs car had accessories listed on the contract (overpriced), but included at the $24,990 plus on-roads.

              So the price difference is now about $900.

              Your linked sale sounds like the sale OP bought during, so thanks for finding that

              •  

                @Spackbace: K. I did not get that from what I read.
                I did not check your edit while I was writing this or last reply.

                Would you google OP's Stock Number or last 6 digits of OP's VIN just in case? Some dealer sites can come off as official manufacturer sites. I personal paid $2.5k below drive away on a '0km' pre-report using an internet ad.

                I also know other manufacturers often have aged stock bonuses of $1000+ just for previous year compliance dates. There could have been a stacking of deals as the ad I shared said nothing of compliance date.

                I will keep digging. I only searched for 2 minutes to find $25,990.


                My edit to the above post (you replied too fast!)

                I have seen plenty of sales person screw ups go through when aftermarket/fiance rush. They often don't know non-finance promotion pricing or care enough to explain pricing, "as it is the sales person and sales manager's job to explain the contract". Your dealership sounds far better!

                GM is often the lasiest role in a dealership. Sales Managers should handle Area Managers and stock. DP's handle senior stake holders. GM's job is office manager and deal with complaints. Good to hear you have a strong, good team and a GM who steps up! The only time I have seen a GM step up is when a business is bleeding money due to mis-management of personal… The worst I have seen is arrive at 11am. Leave at noon for a stake and whiskey. Get back at 1pm. Go home at 3pm.

        •  

          Bookmarked for next time I'm buying a car

        •  

          One of the best advise seen here on OZB! Great stuff!

  • +2 votes

    Finance amount will always be higher than your buy price less deposit due to fees.

  • +33 votes

    Mate at the end of the day, the contract that you signed has the breakdown of the cost. You signed and agreed to the cost.

    •  

      this,

      What can I do so that I am refunded for the extra money they charged to me.

      i highly doubt this will ever happen.

      •  

        Even if they have charged me more then the advertised cost?

        • +16 votes

          Why do you sign without reading?

          • +30 votes

            @Tech5: I was stupid.

            • +42 votes

              @4kbargain: This is the tax.

            • +6 votes

              @4kbargain: I’m not sure why everyone is suggesting to you that the signed contract supersedes pre-contractual representations and that there is nothing you can do.

              If this were the case (it isn’t) then fraudsters would have a field day.

              We have remedies for misleading and deceptive conduct under our Australian Consumer Law.

              You relied upon the drive away price representation.

              Hold them to it.

              • +5 votes

                @kipps:

                Hold them to it

                To hold someone to something requires evidence. Op is struggling to find evidence to support their claim.

                • -5 votes

                  @whooah1979: Sorry, but wrong. The advertisement would easily be found through the discovery process in any litigation. This does not preclude someone duded from pursuing it.

                  • +4 votes

                    @kipps:

                    The advertisement would easily be found through the discovery process in any litigation.

                    Litigation isn't a magic bullet. Data backup retention is up to each entity. Government (local, state and federal) may have legislation that requires these entities to keep records for a minimum period of time. Private entities may not be subject to such legislation and may keep different types of data longer than others. An online advertisement isn't critical data and as such a few days or weeks should suffice.

                  • +2 votes

                    @kipps: It's irrelevant. OP shows an ad with one price. The dealership shows a signed contract with OP's signature with another price. OP is going to have to convince a court that apparently despite signing that contract, and then paying the price for 10 months, they didn't know what the actual price was.

                    I'm not saying that didn't happen. I'm saying it's incredibly unlikely to be successful. Civil cases are on balance of probabilities (just for clarity). OP would be trying to convince a court that despite giving OP a contract with the true price, having OP sign it, and then allowing OP to take it home (so it's not a "sign here" - yoink, kind of situation), it was more likely that the salesperson was trying to defraud OP than OP just failing to read correctly.

              • +2 votes

                @kipps:

                I’m not sure why everyone is suggesting to you that the signed contract supersedes pre-contractual representations and that there is nothing you can do.

                Firstly, because they do. Unless OP can find, provide evidence for, and then prove that the salesperson misled him, didn't show him the true price (despite OP signing the contract showing the true price), and that he didn't know he paid the true price (again despite OP signing the contract showing the true price), any reasonable person is going to draw the conclusion that OP went in because of the ad, and then was upsold in some way. That's not illegal, that's called sales.

                • -5 votes

                  @HighAndDry: Speaking as a lawyer, you’re wrong. Once he establishes the representation, which isn’t as hard as you make out, reliance and detriment will easily follow. M&D established. But thanks very much for bolding that he signed the contract.

                  • +1 vote

                    @kipps: Christ, you're a lawyer too? Go stand in the "I don't know that I'm talking about" corner with Lysander.

                    If OP shows the ad, they'll be able to prove they relied on the ad to go into the dealership. There's no way, when there's a signed Contract with a price to the contrary, that they could convince a court that they weren't aware of the actual price at the time they entered into the contract.

                    Misrep only applies if actions are reasonably taken relying on those representations. There's no way OP could argue it was reasonable - after they were given, and then signed, a contract with a different price - for them to rely on an ad with a different price.


                    I'll dumb it down for you. The ACTION OP took was signing the Contract. Detriment and reliance all revolves around this.

                    You're trying to tell me that even as OP was signing a contract which clearly shows a different price, they could reasonably still be acting in reliance on an ad they saw previously? Please.

        • +2 votes

          The advertisement isn't the contract of sale. The actual contract of sale is the binding contract.

          You look like you've learnt a very valuable lesson relatively cheaply. Read before you sign.

        • +2 votes

          all ads have their term and conditions.

          Whether you qualified for the advertised price is anybody guess. But you should have looked or read what you signed up for. And if it wasn't kosher, then you shouldn't have signed and asked about it.

          even 10 months now, nobody is going to remember your from the dealership to explain why the price was different.

        • +2 votes

          They charged you what you agreed to pay according to the contract that you signed.

    •  

      Yeah I know but I was told that it wont be included in the final finance amount. But today I can see the onroad costs are included.

      • +5 votes

        so you signed it without reading what you've signed ?

      • +6 votes

        It's not an iTunes EULA. A car is an uncommon, high ticket purchase with a lot of paperwork. Forget the verbal agreement, you should have gone over the contract with a jeweller's eye before you signed, then checked your account immediately afterward instead of nine months later.

  • +12 votes

    I bought a car in feb 2018.

    But, now today, when I was looking the cars tax invoice and loan amount, I saw it to be too high.

    You're only looking into this 10 months after you bought the car ?!?!?

  • +7 votes

    Use Wayback Machine, look up Honda's website with a cache from Feb and see if you can find the ad.

    https://archive.org/web/

    • +1 vote

      I tried but it asks for postcode for pricing and it doesnot work after that. anyway thanks for your help mate.

      •  

        This is one reason why over-javascripted sites are so popular in business, create a virtual reality to which consumers have trouble holding you accountable.

        Either way the OP's perception is more likely to have been down to a misread offer and failure to read fineprint in a contract of sale.

        Things to do to counter this behaviour in future revolve around keeping records of the sale- i.e. all the offers made (screenshots/pdfs/pictures and paper files) to allow you to check anomalies at a later date

        •  

          Things to do to counter this behaviour revolve around

          Reading the contract. OP has a copy of the contract - if they'd read it, this wouldn't have happened in the first place.

          I'm going to assume it's much easier to just read the contract (which you sign and keep a copy of), rather than try and keep a copy of all relevant marketing material.

          •  

            @HighAndDry: The trouble is reading Ts&Cs can take disproportionate amounts of time. Case in point being Samsung's Ts&Cs that were nullified by a judge due to them being too long for a reasonable person to be expected to read.

            In reality, this is the case all the time now. The temptation for a lot of unethical operations is to use Customer Agreements as a dragnet to impose fees and additional charges that they otherwise wouldn't be able to do.

            And as the proportion of customers whose bahaviour is conditioned by devices, or are challenged by English rises in Oz, it is the new frontier for dodgy operators large and small.

            • +4 votes

              @resisting the urge:

              The trouble is reading Ts&Cs can take disproportionate amounts of time.

              OP doesn't need to. Have you bought a car? There is one page (fairly sparse usually) that sets out what you're buying and the final price you're paying. Takes about 5 minutes, even reading slowly.

              • +1 vote

                @HighAndDry: I agree, and most miserably for the OP who no doubt has many more lessons to learn.

                I mean the behaviour of people to just sign and accept has been conditioned by years of unreadable contracts at every turn, written by hordes of 'Experts in the Art', and enshrined in business practice because it is allowed to continue unchecked.

                •  

                  @resisting the urge: They're not unreadable - they're just long. And some contracts are long because there are just that many conditions that need to be addressed. Any added complexity makes contracts less, not more, enforceable. They also drive up legal costs for those businesses. You can bet that if they could, everyone would use single-page contracts - the reality is that in some (a lot) of situations you just can't.

              •  

                @HighAndDry: Correct same as signing the finances gives you a break down of car. Disbility Insuraces, opening fee and if the dealer is sneaky they usually add a fee of $500-700 called a DOF dealer origin fee which is pure profit to the dealership or their way of justifying doing in house finance ha. I would love to see a copy of the fiance breakdown lol

  • +1 vote

    Did you read what you signed?

  • +4 votes

    Unfortunately, when you have a written contract, whatever was agreed to verbally before the contract was signed (things like no on-road costs etc) will generally not be considered.

    I am sure you understand by now, thanks to the unforgiving OZB community, that you must ALWAYS read before you sign. If someone says I will give you something for free, regardless of how trivial it is - make sure it is clearly reflected in the contract.

    Notwithstanding this - in this circumstance that you find yourself in now, I would approach the seller and be persistent with the fact that the car was advertised as drive away price. If you get him to admit that or you can find any reference to it, you may have some luck in a recourse. The chances of anything happening in your favour are slim but its always worth a shot especially talking about a couple of thousand dollars.

    Goodluck

    •  

      Thank you so much for your suggestion. I will try to talk to sales rep again. And the lesson is learnt very hard way.

      •  

        try reaching out to Head Office if the sales rep does not play ball / denies everything.

  • +7 votes

    Acc to everybody here, it turns out I was robbed. learnt the lesson hard way.

    according to everyone here you should've read the contract before signing.

  •  

    As everyone has said, it would all be written on your contract. Verbal agreements don't mean anything sadly.

  •  

    Just to double check, since reading isn't your strong suit:

    And I checked the details, it comes out they have charged me for the onroad costs.

    These ARE shown on the invoice - you do pay for these, it's just calculated so that the final price you pay (not including financing, extras, extended warranties, care packages, what have you) comes out to the same total. Have you checked if that's the case?

    "Drive away price" doesn't mean these amounts don't show up on your invoice.


    Second, possibly more likely possibility, is that the ad isn't "for $24,999", but "from $24,999", or something like that. And it'll usually come with a bunch of conditions you have to meet (exact model, model year, finance/no finance, specific deposit, etc) to get that price.

    •  

      Everything was matched. They have refunded the dealer charge and accesories in the invoice but the on road costs have been passed to me.

      •  

        Yes, but did they make deductions elsewhere that you might not have noticed? See DrunkOnTheGoodLife's comment below. It won't necessarily be a separate specific line item like "CTP Refunded".

        •  

          No any deductions elsewhere. Only the accessories and dealer charge is deducted.

          • +1 vote

            @4kbargain: It's not necessarily a separate line-item. It could just be "Honda XXXX: $23,000" instead of "Honda XXXX: $24,999".

            Or, again, it might have been a FROM $24,999 ad, and whatever you bought wasn't the base or eligible model.

            •  

              @HighAndDry: I bought the base model. I showed him the ad. He looked surprised that the ad existed, he double checked in his computer confirmed it would apply to me. But now I realized everything is a lie. So stupid to trust sales rep.

              Also, it was 7 years warranty and during my first month servicing, I asked the honda mechanic about the warranty and he said its just 3 years. Later, I talked to rep and he said it will be updated in a year. May be next month I am going for 10,000 km servicing and will ask again. I am afraid that my warranty is not acording to offer aswell.

              •  

                @4kbargain: I want to make it clear that I'm not doubting you - but I'm so flabbergasted that you can remember all these details from 10 months ago but didn't think to check them at the time (or have any of it recorded in writing). Potentially expensive lesson to learn.

                (Also - I'm a little surprised no one has pointed this out but - never buy cars on finance! You're paying interest on a depreciating asset.)

              •  

                @4kbargain: Ask your service advisor to confirm it is recorded in their software and to show you it on their screen. Demo's are not often included (if you bought a demo) if they are reported as sold to the manufacturer before the promotion period. This could be considered as misleading behavior.

                Honda should also be able to confirm this over the phone. If the first phone rep can't help you, try calling back at a different time (like the start or end of the shift)

                And contracts are not the be all and end all. You are covered by Australian Consumer Law. You can add this to you AFCA complaint in a fortnight as the dealership mislead you so they could try to sell you their in-house "warranty" product called a Mechanical Protection Plan.

  • +1 vote

    What does your contract say?

    Just because it is "driveaway" you still pay onroad costs / ctp / stamp duty … it should just be inclusive of the price. For example, $24,990 driveaway …. might be $23,500 car, CTP $500, stamp duty $500, delivery $490

    Does that make sense?

    •  

      it makes sense but thats not the case unfortunately. As it was my first purchase, I was completely unaware that this might happen. now I know amd will be very carefull from now on before signing any thing.

    •  

      No, if it is a new car it should be similar to:

      Car $24000

      Accessories $XXX

      Discount -$X,XXX - around $4,000 to $6,000 for free onroads

      Dealer Delivery $1814

      GST $XXXX - Everything above this line is excluding GST

      Stamp Duty $XXX

      CTP $XXX

      Licence Plate $XXX

      Transfer fee $XX - Stamp duty, CTP, Plates and Transfers are combined in some states

      Deposit -$XXXX

      Due $XX,XXX - Some contracts will have sub total, then discount inc GST, some will be completely different. Depends on the DMS the dealership uses

  •  

    Assuming you actually have been overcharged, hnestly I don't think you can do anything about it. Your opportunity to make sure you were happy with the deal was when you signed all of the paperwork when you purchased the car. You accepted the terms of the sale they offered.

  • +15 votes

    As a car salesperson I find it very difficult to believe that you weren't aware of the final price, either from the salesperson or the business manager.

    Would you mind taking a pic of the contract (hide your details) and pm me a copy so I can see if it's just been discounted back down?

    Check my activity on this site, I am reputable and I just wanna try to put your mind at ease if I can

    •  

      Nothing surprises me. When I was looking at new cars a couple years ago a salesperson at a top Toyota dealership insisted a couple of discounted cars in the lot were brand new and not demo. I checked the vin online and it turns out they had been registered for a few months. Many others would not have noticed.

    • +1 vote

      I’ve also previously had a purchase where I wasn’t aware of the final price.
      I bought a new car, also with finance. Got it quite cheaply, and paid a 20% deposit (about $5000). When I got the car, they financed it for the full purchase price, and refused to acknowledge the amount I’d sent them.
      It took about a year to sort out.

  •  

    "coz the sales rep sounded genuine."
    You will learn over time there is no such thing.
    With a car deal especially go over the numbers very carefully.
    A car I purchased new a few years ago had $800 worth of "oops, sorry" mistakes…. and he was a really nice salesman also…

    OP… Do this.. scan the invoice and blank out the personal details (name address rego number dealers name etc etc) and post it so people can see if you were ripped off. Without that it is just a guessing game.

  •  

    @Spackbace is car sale man/woman on an union or register which can make complaint to when there is any misconduct?

    • +1 vote

      Union? Lol no

      And it's he said/she said, no way of arguing that easily

    •  

      Reporting misconduct in a car showroom? He'd be busy AF.

      •  

        No.

        We get paid on our survey results, which every buyer gets. Do poorly, you'll get pulled aside. Do well, you'll get a bonus.

        Add to that the ease of social media/Google reviews, and you'll quickly realise how transparent we have to be.

        This isn't an industry for cowboys any more, and they soon get weeded out by annoyed Managers picking up after them.

  •  

    Lol..OP - you suddenly changed your username in same was as you realized your mistake after 9 months..

  • +4 votes

    Ok, so this is what I wrote to OP after sighting the contract:

    Ok, so yes they charged you on-road costs on top

    Given the car is currently $26,990 drive away, I do wonder where you got your $24,990 drive away price from.

    So rather than sitting there in worry about the additional costs, which you can't prove currently without knowing their sales at the time, I'd be happy that it didn't cost you any more than what it does right now (and right now is an end of year runout special).

    The car does have an RRP of $24,990 plus on-road costs, I'm wondering if that's where you got your price from at the time?

    • -3 votes

      It was 10 months ago… prices change depending on promotions

      • +1 vote

        Thanks Captain Obvious lol you don't think the salesperson knows that?

        EOY sales are generally the cheapest. Obviously there can be random sales through the year, but at year end the dealer and manufacturer want to clear the stocks. For there to be a $2,000 price discrepancy is surprising.

        OP also states the advertised price came from Honda's own website, and it surprised the salesperson. We are informed of sale prices, we'd only be surprised if it was another dealer's special price or something.

  • +1 vote

    Oh, and I'm quite sure you're eligible for the 7 year warranty

  • +1 vote

    I would not accept from Honda Marketing Dept they do not have a record of the particular sales campaign and the T & C thereof.

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