Is Common Sense/Courtesy a Bit Too Much to Expect These Days?

This could be a post to vent…. but after 36 hours I "think" I am over it. But I wanted to check what the folks of Ozbargain think - Mainly because I have had some good feedback and learn something new everyday through the wealth of knowledge around here

Sat night - wife and I booked to go watch Creed 2 at Hoyts Stafford on Xtreme Screen 9pm show.

  • 4 groups of people including us and there was an other couple sitting beside us to the left.
  • And a group of 3 people in the front row to the right of us.
  • There was a group of 3 behind us (last row to the far left)

The trouble started when this last group kept talking so loud through the previews and we let it go.

5 minutes into the movie, I politely asked them "Do you mind not speaking so loud, we can hear you from here and the movie has started". They shut up for a few mins.

An other 10 minutes go by and they are back on rambling on about shit… and this couple to the left of us have had enough of it and they leave the movie. I don't say anything.

This kid from the group had to run up/down to pee couple of times. The dad had to go once to get more drinks for the kid in between.

50 minutes into the movie they are still talking so loud, I lost it and flashed my phone's torch at them and asked if they were planning to continue like this for the whole movie. And then he gets annoyed and asks if I have an issue with his kid peeing! I replied back saying I have no issue with the kid peeing, but with them rambling on and on during the movie.

He walks over and threatens me and the wife, so I go out and explain everything to the Manager. My wife walks out 2mins later saying he threatened her by wanting to fight us both in the car park. All the while, the kid is watching us …. The manager, who was a female and an other female colleague apologized to us (which I don't think was necessary) and we all went back to talk to this guy and apparently this guy's issue was it was my fault for flashing the light at them (Which I understand & accept was not the best thing to do in respect to the other group). I tried my best not use profanity in front of the kid and the other patrons.

My wife felt uncomfortable and didn't want to watch the movie anymore. We decided to leave. The Manager gave us 4 complimentary tickets to come back. I took 2 from her and refused the other 2, but she insisted we take them. Eventually we took in and left.

FFS, is common sense too much to expect from people these days? Especially in a public place keeping in mind there are other people who are there to enjoy/get on with their day to day lives.

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Comments

  • +107 votes

    "Is common sense/courtesy like a bit too much to expect these days?"

    unfortunately yes…
    .

    • +69 votes

      That's a separate issue. These people were just turds.

      • +6 votes

        I don't think this has anything to do with common sense or courtesy!

        These are pure arseholes! I think Australia is becoming a shithole!

        Sorry about that OP. Very frustrating to be in your shoes especially with your wife. I hope next time you don't get involved personally and just ask the manager for reimbursement for your time and leave them to deal with the shit ruining their business.

      • +6 votes

        Some people think, just because they have kids, they have the right to do anything. Others think this way because they have an expensive car.
        The days of respect and common sense are over, it is now Entitlement and selfishness. Occasionally you find a rare exception.
        This is not the original Australian culture, but the AU culture has been undermined by immigrants from cultures where it is mandatory for survival and success to be ruthless, selfish and greedy, and the rest of Australia is adapting, quickly, unfortunately.

        • +9 votes

          Uh it seems more like American culture than Chinese culture if that's what you were implying.

          • +1 vote

            @Omitsukasa: yup chinese are loud when they talk but they don't talk when watching movies at the cinema.

            • +2 votes

              @rave75: While I don't deny that Chinese culture can be "ruthless, selfish and greedy", Chinese is also rather shrewd and wouldn't talk loudly in cinemas because they paid for the tickets and would want to make the most of what they've spent on, enjoying the movie and not wasting it by talking over it.

              American culture on the other hand is more about "rights to…", "entitled to..", "freedom to…" So if cameldownunder is attributing this phenomenon of entitled behavior in cinemas to culture invasion, I say it's more American than Chinese. Just seems like he has a gripe about Chinese and want to attribute all negative things to them.

        • +2 votes

          I agree, Its partly the other cultures and how they dont try to fit in like they once did. I am a migrant as well but when we came, migrants loved australia and wanted to fit in and adopt their culture and manners. now its every migrant for himself regardless of how much that screws up other people around them.

          • -6 votes

            @lonewolf: @lonewolf…. ya ya, when you were young people were more respectful, you worked hard for the money compared to the current generation and everybody was singing kumbaya while loving each other…. The kids were more respectful too right….

            Back in my day… I love when old people talk like that and shut up when I point out how exactly (profanity) "their day" was for everybody else.

        • +7 votes

          Sounds more like bogans and sorry to say… but those are as Australian as they come.

        • +1 vote

          Prevalence of selfish Cs is sky high. All that matters is them no matter what the circumstances. Prime example of this, and I'll argue this is getting worse, is constantly witnessing cars running lights. So what if it's red and pedestrians have green, it only changed two seconds ago! Shis me to tears. I've been within reach of slapping the side or boot of the car with my hand and had drivers pulling up and wanting to fight hahaha dumb cus. Apologies for profanity but that and lone passengers taking up a three seater on the train, giving you filthies when you ask to sit down, to me, beautifully sums up the age of entitlement and me first attitude at all costs that we live in

        •  

          yeah absolute idiots. This is why I don't take my kids to the movies, it'll obviously ruin the experience for others so it'd be just plain rude to bring them. Not going to enter into the cultural thing, though I do think there always have and always will be rude people full stop.

        • -3 votes

          If you think that there wasn't selfish and greedy Australians 100 years ago, and that all of these issues are because of 'migrants' then you have a VERY inaccurate view of both the world and human nature.

          I know it's really easy to blame things on other groups of people but that's the problem. We're all people. Just read about the Sydney gangs in the 1800s. Ahhh the good old days right? Or are you more fixated on the 40s to 60s being a dream time? Because nothing bad ever happened back then right?

          Seriously. Wake up to yourself.

        •  

          Blaming immigrants and other cultures? Wtf?! A bit OTT there. They were just idiots. No need to over ANALyse it.

      • +4 votes

        +1. Bad behaviour. Those poor kids having parents like that. Someone mentioned culture, this isn't cultural, there are knobs all over the world. Going to cinemas is such a variable experience these days, I'd rather buy a cheap projector and borrow a friends garage than put up with that bullsh*t. Also who takes their kid to a 9pm screening?!

    • +8 votes

      Ahhh yes self entitled bogans.
      Imagine being stuck on a 2 week cruise with a bunch of them.

    • +2 votes

      "Is common sense/courtesy like a bit too much to expect these days?"

      unfortunately yes…

      Huh?

      OP said there were 10 people in the theater. Two or three were rude. Two displayed a lack of common sense. At least 60% of that theater displayed common sense and courtesy, at least 70% displayed courtesy, 80% displayed common sense and 90%, if not 100% of patrons displayed either common sense or courtesy! WHOOHOO! Further, 100% of patrons only had to suffer part of Creed 2 thanks to three or four people! Yes, three or four people helped save 100% of a theater from further suffering on a Saturday night!!!

      Hoyts Stafford is the Australian home of Common Sense or Courtesy!!!

    •  

      How about trains? I see people moving like a rat to get a seat.

      Don’t think even once that though it is 3 seaters, it cause lot inconvenience to other 5 fellows.

      Speaking loudly in local language ( non English) .

      Rare to see courtesy in offering seats to women and even a pregnant woman.

      •  

        I don’t really get it. Why speaking my language in public is considered rude? Do you expect other people to care about what you’re taking about between yourself when you speak English?

        At work we have a rule to speak English in work related scenarios, however it’s totally accepted in social setting like at lunch to speak other languages if you’re in a group where everyone understands it. This is totally understandable because of the collaboration aspect.

        •  

          It is not totally understandable in a social setting. You think it is because you are around non-English speaking friends. Its very rude, I need to deal with it every day on the trains and personally when I see my in-laws. Their English is average because they speak Mandarin at home. I'm not saying to lose speaking your native tongue but if you live here permanently do it at home (not around English speaking people trust me it's not a nice feeling to not know what they are talking about and feeling left out even though I know they don't mean to it's a bad habit) so you don't lose it but just be aware of y8ur surroundings.

          •  

            @billybob1978: Try to train your tolerance muscle. It is hard to speak other language, especially if you don’t need to. Especially if you’re in a family setting. I presume you can’t speak a second language, so for you just to understand the main problem is words don’t have the same emotional meaning. One example is swear words. Whatever swear words you can say in English will not offend me the same as words in my native language. Think of the most taboo word in English and it will be just a word for me, no taboo connotations. Words are more than just entries in dictionary, they have connected common previous life experience and associations, and this is the whole reason it’s much more meaningful to speak in mother tongue, especially with friends and family.

            •  

              @srr: Yeah I agree it is hard and my position will always be if you decide to move to another country that does not speak your native language then make every effort to learn it well. The same goes for my in-laws who moved here MANY years ago and me if I relocated. I do get what you’re saying as my extended family tell me the same thing. They tell stories in Mandarin and I ask what’s so funny but they tell me it’s too hard to convert to English. Try being in that setting for more than 10 years and you would see where I’m coming from. Another example is that there aren’t Mandarin words that convert to English words for manners which is annoying as when they do speak English they don’t use mannners which has been drilled into me by my parents.

              •  

                @billybob1978: Yeah I know what you mean. It’s not different country, it’s just different culture/language. My mum was in the same position as you are because she couldn’t understand my father’s first language(he was bilingual from early age), and when we were to my grandparents from my father’s side they were speaking it and she felt excluded. It was the same country and my both parents were born there, no one moved. The problem though was the same.

                My point is the problem you have has nothing to do with the country or trains, it’s purely inter cultural marriage.

      •  

        It's a free country dude. People can speak any language they like!

      •  

        I agree it's the ones that clearly live permanently in Australia that don't speak English and it's usually really loudly in front of others. If you want to speak non-English at home that's your choice. My in-laws speak Chinese in front of me as I'm part of the family which I get but it really annoys me as I don't know what they're talking about. I have to keep reminding them I don't understand what they are saying.

        Tourists talking non-English is understandable it's just rude when it's loud. I don't go to other non-English speaking countries and speak loudly so the same courtesy is expected here.

        I catch public transport everyday. If you don't agree try it and you'll see that these comments are true.

        • -2 votes

          Lol you're complaining about immigration but could only get a Chinese wife.

          • -1 vote

            @nahi11: Haha spoken like a true keyboard warrior. She doesn't even speak Chinese. I didn't say I'm against immigration you idiot it's when they don't adopt is when I have an issue.

        •  

          Learn Mandarin for a change, can be a great hobby. You’re in a great position for that with your relatives speaking natively.

          •  

            @srr: I agree with you and I do try but don’t have much time, like most people my age. I do encourage my kids to learn as they are young and like sponges, plus they see them more than I do.

  • +8 votes

    Choose a very late screening to avoid the child minding element.

    "The manager, who was a female and an other female colleague apologized to us"

    Gets popcorn.

    •  

      I felt sorry for the ladies honestly. and I had to apologize to the other group before we decided to leave.

      • +28 votes

        The culprits were lowlives no doubt, but it is also the cinema's responsibility to ensure that their patrons are harmonious. They employ floor staff with torches and walkie talkies to regularly patrol the theatres to detect trouble makers, take feedback from patrons, check the feature, sound level, temperature, etc. Some locations also employ security guard contractors. Sometimes the floor staff are stretched far too thin by managers. Their duties also include cleaning up all the popcorn, melted chocolate and condoms spilled, dumped and thrown around by degenerates.

        You did the right thing taking the extra comps from the manager and they were smart to offer them. They get blasted by regional management if anyone reports negative feedback. They're supposed to deliver outstanding service given their exhorbitant ticket and candy bar prices.

        •  

          The staff are often high schools teens or young university students. You expect them for crowd control?

          • +2 votes

            @Bimo: I'm not talking about what I expect, I'm talking about how the business is actually run. Having said that, the necessary skills are not beyond teens nor young adults. Managing patrons from a security perspective draws mainly on verbal interpersonal skills rather than physical attributes.

            The floor staff are supposed to radio management if patrons are non-compliant after being given directions. Management can then call security, centre security, the projectionist to suspend the feature and switch the house lights on, and finally the police. I've seen all these happen.

            • -3 votes

              @Scrooge McDuck: Unfortunately most young adults are easily intimated, too timid in making a decision, and most cases choose to do nothing.

              •  

                @Bimo: Those people aren't fit for the job. Even if you expect them to not do their job, that doesn't mean you should accept it.

                • -3 votes

                  @Scrooge McDuck: Thing is, in their job CV and interview it would say things like friendly customer service, ability to maintain clean environment, communication skill, able to use popcorn machine, etc. There is nothing that says about crowd control, or ability to manage patrons, handle violent behaviours, etc.

                  I agree that they can escalate via radio to management, but when facing these situations they have to decide whether to escalate this and risk getting in trouble if they got it wrong.

                  Hiring more matured individuals cost more money…

                  • +3 votes

                    @Bimo:

                    Thing is, in their job CV and interview it would say things like friendly customer service, ability to maintain clean environment, communication skill, able to use popcorn machine, etc. There is nothing that says about crowd control, or ability to manage patrons, handle violent behaviours, etc.

                    As someone who actually had this job in highschool, you're totally wrong. There were specific questions in the interview about how you would handle a violent situation. These are standard questions read by managers from a script so would be the same for all applicants.

                    Handling trouble makers was one of our regular duties. Be that people trying to sneak in without paying, children cinema hopping to MA15+ films, people with their feet on the seats, people making noise, etc. Male and female staff dealt with these duties alike.

                    Floor staff are supposed to be in frequent contact with management over the radio. Calling in each cinema check and clean, as well as responding to directions. Part of this is tracking that these otherwise unsupervised staff are doing their jobs. No one would ever get into trouble for asking management about something, only the other way around. To give you a good idea of the culture, box office staff were even impractically required to call in anyone paying with a $100 note or certain type of voucher before proceeding with the transaction.

                    This is your 3rd misinformed reply to me. You really just seem to be talking out of your behind.

                    • -3 votes

                      @Scrooge McDuck: That is very rude of you to claim I'm misinformed and talk from my behind. We are all here talk with respect of one another, some may be more knowledgeable than the other but doesn't make others talk from their behind.

                      I happened to have hoyts interview although didn't work for them. I could swear the interviewer didn't ask anything of such. They asked things like what to do if there is a spillage, a phone call, customer waiting, etc. Maybe things have changed since then or my memory failed me again.

                      • +4 votes

                        @Bimo:

                        That is very rude of you to claim I'm misinformed and talk from my behind.

                        You had 3 strikes, one needs to know where to draw the line. Unlimited patience is not a virtue. And if you think that's rude, you've probably lived a very sheltered existence.

                        I happened to have hoyts interview although didn't work for them.

                        So the interview worked as intended. That supports my point.

    • +3 votes

      No unzipping?

    • +1 vote

      Meaning no disrespect to OP, but this statement struck me as odd as to why you mentioned the sex of the manager & colleague.

      Why does it matter if the manager and other colleague were females or not? I would expect that the same response would've been given if the manager were male as well.

      In answer to your comments, yes, some people are either obnoxious and/or entitled - and this is how society is slowly becoming sadly.
      It's a fact that community mindedness has dissipated or become less relevant over the years, especially in large/city environs & populations. Whilst being an adaptation/evolution trait of humans to be community-minded/spirited (this has how we have survived as species after all eg. protecting the herd) - gradually the individual (some would say "selfish") humanistic traits have overtaken these older norms.

      So in conclusion, some people (note: not all thankfully) have no awareness of other people, nor feel any empathy towards other groups and feel justified in doing what they think serves them, and only them, without thinking of the other.

      I know this is long & turning into a rant but here's a smaller example of individual traits & discourtesy: Went to IKEA and someone had inconveniently left their trolley laden with goods near something I needed to reach over (and I'm not short so would've been hard for most people to access). I couldn't see anyone nearby so pushed the trolley a little bit to access whatever it was I was after. A few seconds later some lady decided to come with a startled expression and confronting behaviour asking why I'd touch her trolley (mind there was nothing there which was personal (all IKEA stuff from shelves) so it wasn't like I was after stealing something. Then her, & I'd assume her friend, decided to talk loudly about how that trolley was hers and no one had the right to touch it - how rude of me etcetera. I just walked off telling her to place her trolley somewhere else next time.

      Humans :\

      • +4 votes

        I think it is important to the context of the situation and the events that followed. Someone else asked the same question in the 2nd page on why I mentioned the sex of the manager and below was my response(copy pasted) :

        I mentioned the gender of the staff as females bcoz this guy threatened my wife while I was outside. That says how he treats women in his life in general. So naturally for me, the manager being female as well as the colleague was a concern for me as I am considerate about their welfare.

        Maybe his behaviour would have been different if the manager was male bcoz he didn't threaten me to my face while I was in there.

        • +1 vote

          Your only hope is to train like Rocky and become a big obstacle, that its not worth these "turds" to mess with you. Or you can get rich and travel with bodyguards. Or get a gun.

          ….Or maybe you can get so Zen that you can drown out these background noises and enjoy the movie.

      • +5 votes

        I think it is important because the guy was threatening to fight in the carpark. He's not saying women can't be rude, I interpreted it the OP as being protective of the female staff. Which highlighted the sort of guy he is vs the kind he was dealing with.

    • +16 votes

      Let me state - Your question is valid.

      and NO. I would NOT have been any more accepting if they were a healthy weight… I have an issue with the behaviour (of disturbing the other patrons) and his argument with the manager was that his son had to go pee because of the drinks and then I was having an issue with the kid walking up/down the stairs….

      Of everything I mentioned above in my post, including his behaviour, my response, the response of the other couple, the manager's response…. you picked on the fact that I mentioned the kid as being obese? I am curious as to why the other issue was ignored.

    • +19 votes

      Please explain what the weight of the other party has to do with your scenario?

      Obesity correlates with irresponsibility including poor self control. Those are relevant to this scenario.

      • -2 votes

        Where's your proof for the claimed correlation between obesity and irresponsibility? The most useful scholarly article I would see showed a trend towards slowly improving personal responsibility over time using a variety of measurables, yet we know that obesity has risen over the same period: https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/full/10.1377/hlthaff.2009.... , so that in fact suggests the opposite is true. But in this era of Trump, why let the facts get in way?

        Or was this making-stuff-up comment an example of poor self control? And am I to infer from that you are more likely to be obese?

        • +9 votes

          Association of personality with the development and persistence of obesity: a meta-analysis based on individual–participant data

          High conscientiousness – reflecting high self-control, orderliness and adherence to social norms – was associated with lower obesity risk across studies (pooled odds ratio [OR] = 0.84; 95% confidence interval [CI] = 0.80–0.88 per 1 standard deviation increment in conscientiousness). Over a mean follow-up of 5.4 years, conscientiousness predicted lower obesity risk in initially non-obese individuals (OR = 0.88, 95% CI = 0.85–0.92; n = 33,981) and was associated with greater likelihood of reversion to non-obese among initially obese individuals (OR = 1.08, 95% CI = 1.01–1.14; n = 9,657).
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3717171/

          Low childhood conscientiousness predicts adult obesity

          Results from a longitudinal study show that children who exhibit lower conscientiousness (e.g., irresponsible, careless, not persevering) could experience worse overall health, including greater obesity, as adults. The study examines the relationship between childhood personality and adult health and shows a strong association between childhood conscientiousness (organized, dependable, self-disciplined) and health status in adulthood.
          https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130809115200.h...

          Big five personality factors, obesity and 2-year weight gain in Australian adults

          The sample included 5265 Australian adults aged 25– 65 years. Binary logistic regression models indicated that Extraversion, Agreeableness and Neuroticism were cross-sectionally associated with obesity, with Conscientiousness inversely associated with obesity.
          https://ro.uow.edu.au/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://ww...

          Personality and obesity across the adult life span.

          Measured concurrently, participants higher on Neuroticism or Extraversion or lower on Conscientiousness had higher BMI; these associations replicated across body fat, waist, and hip circumference. The strongest association was found for the impulsivity facet: Participants who scored in the top 10% of impulsivity weighed, on average, 11Kg more than those in the bottom 10%. Longitudinally, high Neuroticism and low Conscientiousness, and the facets of these traits related to difficulty with impulse control, were associated with weight fluctuations, measured as the variability in weight over time. Finally, low Agreeableness and impulsivity-related traits predicted a greater increase in BMI across the adult life span.
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21744974

          Personality traits and body weight: Evidence using sibling comparisons.

          Conscientiousness is associated with decreased body weight net of unobserved background characteristics that are shared by siblings. The results suggest that interventions that develop personality traits may have "spillover effects"; in other words, they may also help reduce obesity.
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27394194

          Correlations between Personality and Body Mass Index in a Cross-Sectional Sample of the Seattle Longitudinal Study

          Lower levels of conscientiousness were related to higher body mass indexes in the entire sample of males, in late middle-aged adults, young-old adults, and late middle-aged females. The results of this study suggest that in general, a more conscientious group of people will tend to have lower body mass indexes.
          https://sharepoint.washington.edu/uwsom/sls/Documents/2000/P...

          Obesity and Self-control: Food Consumption, Physical Activity, and Weight-loss Intention

          By utilizing the Rotter score that measures self-control capability, we find that obese individuals exhibit a lower degree of self-control than normal-weight individuals, and that this lack of self-control is associated with poor eating and exercise behaviors, as well as increased Body Mass Index and obesity risk.
          https://academic.oup.com/aepp/article-abstract/36/1/125/9296...

          Self-Control Protects Against Overweight Status in the Transition from Childhood to Adolescence

          Approximately one-third of the sample (n = 262) was overweight at age 15. Compared to their non-overweight peers, overweight adolescents at age 15 were about a half-standard deviation lower in self-control at age 9 (unstandardized difference = 0.15, pooled SD = 0.29, P < .001). Children rated higher by their parents and teachers in self-control at age 9 were less likely to be overweight at age 15 (RR, 0.74; 95% CI, 0.56-0.98), controlling for overweight status at age 10, pubertal development, age, IQ, gender, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, and maternal overweight status.
          https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2914627/

          •  

            @Scrooge McDuck: TL;DR: if ya lazy and dgaf, chances are you will end up a fat slob.

          •  

            @Scrooge McDuck: It has been shown that at least 106% of statistics can be used to prove almost anything. Sorry, no source link…

          • +1 vote

            @Scrooge McDuck: Innate discipline, self-control and the ability to delay gratification are the best predictors of success in life, even more than a high IQ. Humans are at their best when they can override their emotions and instincts, suppressing them while they work towards long term goals. Unfortunately our society if full of immature adults with a mental state akin to that of a 2 year old.

          • -2 votes

            @Scrooge McDuck: Very extensive response! So let's break it down:

            Let A = Obesity (will also accept higher or increased BMI as vaguely similar), B = irresponsibility, C = conscientiousness, D = Extraversion, E = Agreeableness, F = Neuroticism, G = impulsiveness, H = self control.

            Now let’s see what you’ve shown:

            Association of personality with the development and persistence of obesity: a meta-analysis based on individual–participant data

            C predicts A is not a proof that A correlates with B.

            Low childhood conscientiousness predicts adult obesity

            Again: C predicts A is not a proof that A correlates with B.

            Big five personality factors, obesity and 2-year weight gain in Australian adults

            D, E, F were associated with A, and C was inversely associated with A, which is not a proof that A correlates with B.

            Personality and obesity across the adult life span.

            Higher F, D and lower C with associated with higher A. High G associated with higher weight. High F and low C associated with weight fluctuations. Low E and G associated with A. Not a proof that A correlates with B.

            Personality traits and body weight: Evidence using sibling comparisons.

            C associated with reduced A in siblings. Not a proof that A correlates with B.

            Correlations between Personality and Body Mass Index in a Cross-Sectional Sample of the Seattle Longitudinal Study

            Lower C related to higher A. Not a proof that A correlates with B.

            Obesity and Self-control: Food Consumption, Physical Activity, and Weight-loss Intention

            A correlates with H. [For the record, don’t dispute this part, just the A → B part]. Not a proof that A correlates with B.

            Self-Control Protects Against Overweight Status in the Transition from Childhood to Adolescence

            A correlates with lower H. Not a proof that A correlates with B.

            So you have shown something, but besides giving a big list of papers and showing various correlations, that critical point is that you have not shown that A correlates with B.

            A reasonable definition of Irresponsibility from a dictionary would be: not meeting a moral obligation to behave correctly towards or in respect of. Lacking trustworthiness, level-headedness, rationality, sanity, reason, reasonableness, sense, common sense, stability, maturity, adultness, reliability, dependability, competence.

            That is not the same thing as: Extraversion, Agreeableness, Neuroticism, conscientiousness [it’s entirely possible to be a mature adult but have a messy desk and be easy-going], or self control [going for the yummy looking Christmas pudding at Christmas lunch when they’ve probably had enough, is something an awful lot of mature adults will do at this time of the year].

            So I definitely give you kudos for effort, but I’m sorry, you the fact is that you just have not shown that A correlates with B.

            And that’s a problem as you’d need to show that A correlates with B for the kid’s obesity to be relevant, as it’s the B/irresponsibility in this scenario that’s the central problem.

            • +1 vote

              @nickj: Nice try at confusing the issue. The term 'irresponsibility' is not commonly used in a scientific context, I assume because it's not as discretely defined and measurable as other terms. My original comment was stating my opinion in common terms as what I saw to be clearly evident. I didn't anticipate to have to provide a statistical defence of it. But the research did indeed validate my opinion.

              You're purely making a semantic argument, but I'll call you on that too. The second article explicitly defines lower 'conscientiousness' as including 'irresponsibility':

              Results from a longitudinal study show that children who exhibit lower conscientiousness (e.g., irresponsible, careless, not persevering)

              That and my other reading confirm that low conscientiousness includes irresponsibility. So all your points are moot.

              http://lmgtfy.com/?q=conscientiousness+responsibility

              Other articles explicitly stated that obesity correlates with a lack of self-control.

              Other personality defects measured in the articles and found to correlate with obesity are congruent with your own provided definition of irresponsiblity; namely lacking level-headedness, rationality, reasonableness, sense, common sense, stability, maturity and adultness.

              And that’s a problem as you’d need to show that A correlates with B for the kid’s obesity to be relevant,

              Actually, the relevant issue is "the weight of the other party" and the other party would be the father, he's the perpetrator here not the child.

              I know what you're going to try to do now. You're going to try to find something in this comment to pick out and object to, to confuse the issue. But that doesn't win you the argument. The central point is that low conscientiousness includes irresponsibility, so all your points are moot. Unless you can address that, don't bother replying again.

              • -1 vote

                @Scrooge McDuck:

                Nice try at confusing the issue.

                I'm not trying to confuse the issue, I think you are conflating two different personality aspects (irresponsibility - e.g. talking in cinemas) with conscientiousness (e.g. work ethic). They are different things.

                The term 'irresponsibility' is not commonly used in a scientific context, I assume because it's not as discretely defined and measurable as other terms

                Agreed - common sense and maturity are hard to define or measure, but we generally know it when we see it.

                My original comment was stating my opinion in common terms as what I saw to be clearly evident.

                To be honest, my life experience has been opposite - some of the most irresponsible yet legal behaviour I have seen (a parent causing lots of psychological issues in their own child) was by a very skinny person, and the most responsible behaviours I have observed were often performed by people who were higher BMI (I don't know if they were obese, but certainly higher than healthy weight range). And yes, I know personal anecdotes are not data, but I genuinely do not see this as clearly evident.

                I didn't anticipate to have to provide a statistical defence of it.

                I didn't anticipate this debate either!

                But the research did indeed validate my opinion.

                As far as I can tell, it shows a correlation between self-control and obesity (which you'd reasonably expect, similar to the classic kids with marshmallow tests), and conscientiousness (e.g. trying your best in school and work) and obesity.

                You're purely making a semantic argument

                True, and that's because these words have different meanings.

                The second article explicitly defines lower 'conscientiousness' as including 'irresponsibility':

                Ok, good, an actual reason. I wish I could read the full text to see how exactly they test for "irresponsibility". All I can see is: "Hawaii school-children rated by their teachers in the 1960's as less conscientious". So a group of teachers subjectively rated them, there was no reproducible test, no control group, no objective measurement, no double-blind test, and teachers will likely rate those who try to the best of their ability in the classroom highly, and those who do not poorly. How, exactly, is that the same thing as mature adult behaviour? It's not! I know plenty of mature highly-responsible adults who were not the best students as school children.

                http://lmgtfy.com/

                So to be clear, instead of a straight google link, you provide an inherently rude "Let me google that for you" link? In a discussion about whether "a bit of courtesy is too much to expect", can you even see the absolute irony of your being discourteous in this way?

                Other articles explicitly stated that obesity correlates with a lack of self-control.

                No disagreement on this.

                Actually, the relevant issue is "the weight of the other party" and the other party would be the father, he's the perpetrator here not the child.

                My mistake, I remembered this detail wrong, I apologize.

                Unless you can address that, don't bother replying again.

                Again with the rudeness? In a conversation about common courtesy, that you seem to be interested in, I find it absurd that you seem to have difficulty displaying the very behaviour that you seem to be interested in.

  • +3 votes

    I would of used reverse psychology, Instead you went through all that aggro .

    Could you have changed seats perhaps ?

    If not i would of joined in their conversation if it was that loud, just do it politely everytime they spoke loud join in , introduce yourself and talk , talk to them ,they will soon get the message , no aggro , no confrontation just friendly banter to them ,offer some popcorn etc

    What were they talking about ? The movie or other things ?

    Even if its not the movie they were talking about, as soon as something exciting happened in the movie i would of turned around and exclaimed excitedly “ look at that !!! Omg ,, wasnt that great !!!

    They would soon get the message believe me !!!

    No aggro, no threats just friendly annoying banter back.

    The other day im walking in the City carrying my heavy shopoing, i go to walk past a Student English academy , they are all outside blocking the footpath with there teacher , holding a meeting on a pedestrians footpath !!

    I started to get angry as no one wanted to move to let me pass,the young teacher could see thst and completed ignored me,here i am with groceries trying to get pass and no one gave a rats , so i used reverse psychology …….l.

    I joined in their discussions,stood in the line up and asked the teacher what time we finish here ?

    He looked confused , can i finish and go home now i asked as everyone moved to make way for me.

    • +1 vote

      Mate, you make a valid point. In hindsight, you're absolutely right.

      I did request them politely 5 minutes into the movie. They were talking about some of their family BS and the son making comments about his school and stuff.

      If it was funny movie, everyone's laughing loud, it makes sense. I am there to enjoy a movie with my wife and booked seats right in the middle so that we could enjoy it. Moving to an other seat makes sense, but why would I have to do that when someone else is in the wrong.

    • +8 votes

      If not i would of joined in their conversation if it was that loud,

      And make the problem worse for yourself and other patrons? Brilliant!!

      The right thing to do here is to bring it to the attention of floor staff. If they don't do their jobs, ask to see the manager and they should offer comps, they will also oblige a refund of tickets and candy bar purchases if pressed.

    • +6 votes

      Then the whole cinema clapped and the manager came in and gave me the keys to the cinema.

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