Love watching the women's league. As tough as it gets too. Enjoy :)
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@thatguyfromthatplace: 50 million? There woupdbt even be half of 50 million people who have heard of AFL not to mention think it's any good LMAO
@Joey Jo Jo: I think he's referring to flies and not to AFL fans. It would be a bit of a weird attempt at a burn if he was talking about the latter.
Wait, why am I telling you this? I'm sure you've already figured that out because your IQ isn't sub-par.
@Pantagonist: Too true mate and great to see you contribute to a thread without having your knickers in a twist.
@thatguyfromthatplace: Given the lack of international popularity of Aussie rules compared to the hype surrounding the Rugby world cup in Japan this year I'm going to say that is the most outrageous claim I've ever heard
Or we just call it World Series Football and too bad of no one else joins.
No aliens have come forward to contest Miss Universe yet…
No aliens have come forward to contest Miss Universe yet…
Have you seen some of the contestants lately?
LMAOOOOO AFL cant even break out of half of one country yet you think it has potential to go international?
No. International sport is dying.
I thought they played footy in winter
I thought you said in their underwear and tbh I was almost interested for a sec there.
Poor girls playing AFL in this summer heat
If you're good at something never do it for free :(…:)
Hence this deal?
Actually they are doing well to get paid for something no one pays to go to. Well done girls.
It's called charity.
The opposite is also true - which I guess explains this.
“As tough as it gets too”
To watch, yes. Physicality wise, lol. No.
Just like the wnba, the afl should follow suit making the field and ball smaller to accommodate for the women playing this game. Until then, the aflw will be a low scoring, non exciting, slower paced game.
Good point.
The ball is smaller, there's also less players. Any more suggestions?
Play in bikinis. Viewership will skyrocket overnight.
Why's this offtopic? Bloody mods with their bloody agendas. The LFL almost literally does this for viewership - ultimate goal of any professional sport is to attract paying audiences.
@HighAndDry: By definition the LFL isn't professional sport, because the women who play it don't get paid to play. If articles I've read are to be believed, the players actually pay a $45 annual registration fee.
If you want to pull your pud to women playing sport in bikinis with the main intention being male stimulation then that's fine, but suggesting the LFL is a model that the AFLW should aspire to is laughable at best.
From the mouth of the LFL founder.
For Mortaza, this isn't harsh; it's business. To play for the LFL, he says, you have to have three things: "Beauty, athleticism and confidence." And it has to be the whole package — that, he says, is the key to making the game sell to its prospective fanbase, which is mostly beer-drinking college students aged 21 and up; the live audience attracts the younger crowd, he says, while the home viewer skews slightly older. Mortaza is not just promoting a game, but a special brand of female athlete — scantily clad hotties who can lure men in with their bodies while playing a full-contact sport, but keep viewers' interest throughout the game by proving they can kick ass on the field.
So yeah, in short, this deviation in the discussion is pretty off topic. No moderator agendas needed.
Aren't the quarters 15 minutes instead of 20 as well?
Pretty funny that when the rules are adapted to the women's game, it means that they're not playing the "real" version of the sport and deserve to be treated as inferior, but the minute anyone suggests aligning the rules more closely it becomes about the need to protect women from harm and the fact that they're physically inferior and can't handle it.
Either way it's a pretty demeaning and patriarchal attitude.
Pretty spot on. So many shitty comments in this thread as well.
The same commenters probably also think that none of their behaviour creates an environment that encourages violence against women. Wouldve thought most people would have the murder of Aiia in the back of their minds.
@lolz112: Virtue signalling alert, just pathetic.
You should be ashamed for jumping to such extremes to try and get your point across. You probably don't even watch sport jumping to conclusions like that.
How many years will the AFL have to rob better money from players and stakeholders in order to prop up a national televised competition that nobody cares enough to pay to support?
@LaProblematique: If I didn't watch sport how would I know that the ball is smaller or that there are less players than men's?
Jumping to extremes? If you don't think there there is a link with gender equality and domestic violence you should do some more reading (https://www.humanrights.gov.au/sites/default/files/AHRC_Subm…). There are numerous comments in the thread about women being less than men. But this perpetuates a society where women believe that they are not equal with men, and leads to violence against women, even in Western Cultures. Look at the #metoo movement. Massive gender equality gap in Hollywood where the Men had the power to abuse a number famous actresses.
I agree that the standards in women's AFL is not that high at the moment. But it is a long term investment. The participation in football, especially from women has grown massively as a result of AFLW. This will result in more money in the future as a group that is relatively marginalised is introduced into the game. It's the same plan for GWS and GC to increase participation and support in areas where people follow other sports. If nobody cared, why would growth girls football increase by 76% (https://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-30/football-participatio…)?
@LaProblematique: Got to love people who call out others for virtue signalling as if to imply that they're above it, which in itself is a virtue signal.
Maybe because it's just that - they can't handle the dimensions of a ground that men play on. Look at the average score lines and quality of their games as a result.
Fingers crossed the AFL will see that if nobody cares enough to pay to watch these games in person, that this whole shit show isn't worth persisting with on a national scale.
The perfect Valentine’s Day gift paradox - tickets to an AFLW match for that special femmo in your life…
I will pay sportswomen at least one credit, that they catch in the Big Bash far better than the male faceplanters.
Anyone posted this yet? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAwwIlK2_-s
Women just can't take the big hits like the men do.
Women just can't take the big hits like the men do.
https://1v1d1e1lmiki1lgcvx32p49h8fe-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/…
So there are no actual tickets? You just turn up and you're allowed in??
Go Pies!
Sorry but the skills are about on par with my local under 12s team. Couldn’t pay me to watch AFLW again. The novelty has most certainly worn off.
This is ALWAYS free. There is NO saving.
I'm just waiting for that 110KG 6 foot 4 inch transgender person to take the attention away from the women again this season
It'll be a literal massacre…
The team she played for in the VFLW last year placed 5th on the ladder.
Her stats for the season don't suggest that she "massacred" anyone.
Looks like she didn't win the club's "Best & Fairest" either.
I guess that size and relative strength isn't everything, just like in the men's game.
It's hilarious that she sucks
It's more that he is a danger to the women than anything else, nearly twice the size of most of them. I know I wouldn't like getting tackled by a guy twice my weight.
@brendanm: It's a good thing a big strong man such as yourself is around to look after the best interests of women and let them know who they can and can't play with based on who you wouldn't like to be tackled by.
I haven't found any reports of injuries caused last season as a result of letting her play.
Based on your concerns about safety I guess the men's AFL should change their rules and prevent players who are 100kg from tackling 70kg players?
@Pantagonist: Haha nice projection. Maybe we should let 17 year olds play in under 12s as well? The size disparity won't be an issue surely?
Men shouldn't be in a women's league, end of story. If an average male tennis player tomorrow decides that they are a woman, and then proceeds to beat everyone, you would be happy with that? No matter what you may say, there are physiological differences between men and women. Without splitting them up, men are going to be winning at the vast majority of sports.
@brendanm: I'm not the one who brought size disparity (note, not age) into the discussion. You're the one who seems to have inconsistent views about bigger players hurting smaller players when there's been no complaints from the player groups themselves.
I'll wait until the next tennis player transitions and then judge based on when it happens. At this stage it's pretty much a hypotherical. There was a man who transitioned to a woman back in the late 70s and competed in international tennis but she only got to around 20th in the world. That said, she was older so that may have explained why she wasn't as competitive.
@Pantagonist: I'm pretty sure there is a large size disparity between a 17 year old, and under 12 year olds. I hope you were being facetious, and aren't actually that silly. There has actually been talk recently of size disparity being a problem in junior rugby league, and the injuries caused from it, so it isn't something I'm making up.
Also, "no comments from the player group themselves" is laughable. If any of them spoke out they would be plastered all over as "transphobic" and "bigots" by the media, and social media.
As I mentioned in a comment above, look up Laurel Hubbard. NZ weight lifter who decided he was now a woman, lifted nearly 10kg more than the nearest competitor at comments games until he sustained an injury.
Another is Rachel McKinnon, a guy who decided he was a woman, and won a cycling world championship. Have a look at a picture of him next to the 2nd and 3rdbplace getters. If you had no idea of the story, you would say it was a man.
@brendanm: I'm familiar with both of those cases.
Where I differ from you and Skramit is that I fundamentally don't believe that a blanket ban on all trans althetes is a sustainable solution long term.
If you do that, you're essentially saying that a certain subset of society doesn't get to participate in activities that they're physically capable of because of their gender identity, or they have to fit into their birth gender category despite not identifying as that gender. I wouldn't like to find myself in that situation so I take a more open view.
I've said numerous times in this topic that having trans athletes participating in gendered competition is a way to stimulate debate about the right way to calibrate the rules and regulations of each sport so that those people can participate in a fair and inclusive way. It's certainly easier to identify the shortfalls when they're participating as opposed to being excluded.
The examples you've posted point to the fact that the levers are not calibrated properly in those sports if certain trans althetes have managed to dominate the competition. As I've also said, there are atrans althetes who (on paper) should also dominate sports but they don't, so I think that warrants closer examination.
I think it's important to note that sport is not a level playing field within the genders given the varying physical attributes athletes have. How do you reconcile an athlete such as Caster Semenya who was born female but reportedly has a condition which results in her having elevated testosterone levels which give her a distinct advantage over her peers? Do you ban her from competition because it's unfair, or is it OK for her to compete because she was born a woman?
@Pantagonist: Caster was born that way, it's a natural advantage. Most NBA players are tall. Most NRL players have wide shoulders. Brain surgeons are born with a high IQ. Etc etc. Someone deciding one day that they are no longer a man, and are now a woman, then wanting to compete in women's pro sport, is nowhere near the same.
At any rate, these people are a tiny tiny fraction of the population. The ones that want to be in pro sport afterward are an even smaller proportion. That we should have to make a million rules for an incredibly small amount of people is absurd. If you want to be trans, you don't play sport at a pro level. If it's that important to you it won't matter.
As an aside, my wife works in mental health, and an oddly high proportion of trans people also have bpd or bipolar. If you know anything about these illnesses you can link that up.
@brendanm: Caster was born that way, yet still gets caught up in needing to be tested for "appropriate" levels of testosterone to compete in women's sport.
If anything, she's an example of how male and female characteristics can represent more of a continuum than a binary male or female with strict cutoff points.
As you probably know, testosterone is a hormone that regulates muscle mass and strength (amongst other things), so if Caster's testosterone levels exceed that of a trans athlete who is receiving hormone therapy (and therefore losing that muscle mass and strength in comparison to when they started treatment) then she would be at an advantage in competition.
For this reason, it just seems strange that you wouldn't lump her in with trans athletes given that the differences between her and a trans athlete are minimal from a hormonal perspective.
I'm not sure if you're just using phrases such as "decides one day to be a woman" flippantly, but from lived experience reports given by trans people that I've read, it certainly doesn't seem to be a case of just one day deciding that you're a different gender to your birth gender.
In terms of people who transition later in life, it seems like it's something that many of them struggle with from an early age but they lacked any support or understanding about what might be going on for them.
From my understanding, these crises of identity and how to reconcile with these feelings is what contributes towards the high levels of mental health issues in their community, but your wife would probably know more about this than me.
Pretty much every trans person's story I've read talks about puberty being hell because you're becoming more like something you don't want to be.
I actually think the instances of trans people who've gone through puberty before transitioning will drop significantly over time now that there's a better understanding about it and more acceptance of people who feel like they were born into the wrong body. Hopefully this will also serve to reduce the mental health issues they experience.
As a result, this is going to reduce the instances of athletes who are not accepted in their chosen sport and gender category as the hormonal changes during puberty that cause such huge transformations in their bodies simply won't happen.
On that day, we should all be happy with the result.
@Pantagonist: Sorry, but people aren't "born in the wrong body". It is a mental health issue, which is being solved in a "sledgehammer to crack a wallnut" way, by messing up people's hormones and mutilating their bodies.
In long term studies, people who have transitioned (and yes, this was done in a first world country that is very progressive), suicide rates for those that transitioned are 20 times higher than normal. Transitioning is not "fixing" these people, as it is completely ignoring the mental health issues.
@brendanm: Finally, some honesty about how you really feel about the substantive issue rather than all this smoke and mirrors about fairness in sport.
Do you have a link for those long term studies? I'd be interested to read them.
Also, what's your opinion about people who are gay / lesbian? Mental health issue or just something that people are born with?
@Pantagonist: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal…
I've been honest all along. It's not "smoke and mirrors", I don't believe they should be able to play pro sport, as it's simply unfair. My belief that trans people have a mental illness is another issue. It's it's proven that it is/isn't a mental health issue, my stance on them in sport would remain.
I have no issue whatsover with gay/lesbian people, hell, homosexuality occurs naturally in other animals. From my knowledge, the level of mental health issues with gay/lesbian people is on par with the rest of the population. Not so with trans people, as I mentioned above, much higher instances of bpd, bipolar and in some cases autism. If we apply Occam's razor, that would also tend to suggest that it's more likely to simply be a mental issue, rather than "being born in the wrong body", which in itself is simply stating that there is something wrong with either the brain or the body, and for some illogical reason, choosing the body.
@brendanm: The research does suggest what you claim about suicide and mental illness rates.
What it doesn't do is draw the conclusion that gender reassignment surgery should stop because it's damaging to the person. You only have to read the conclusions in the research summary to find that out.
Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group.
Dr. Dhejne's comments in the article chymb posted about the research being misrepresented also expand on these points.
@Pantagonist: My point I suppose is that while everyone is happy doing gender reassignment surgery, noone is trying to fix the root cause. It's like hanging a picture over a hole in your wall, rather than focusing the hole.
We don't tell people with schizophrenia that their voices are real, and that they are communicating on another astral plane, just to make them feel better. We (attempt) to treat the actual problem in the brain.
I honestly never thought in my lifetime we would see a television show featuring a prebucent boy taking hormone blockers and having his genitals mutilated. Meanwhile anyone who says a word against it is classified as an intolerant bigot. The kid can't drink, drive or vote, but everyone is happy for him to make a much bigger decision, especially when there is money involved. It's all very Kafkaesque.
@brendanm: It's uncharted waters, that's for sure.
I suppose it depends on whether you think the mental health issues in the trans community are the reason why they have those feelings in the first place (and hence are the root cause) or are problems caused as a result of them feeling like they aren't their birth gender (and hence a natural phenomenon).
You mentioned the nature argument as a reason why homosexuality is OK because it's something that happens in other animals. There are also animals in nature that are prone to hermaphroditism (fish, molluscs, chickens etc.). There are also people born with disorders such as congenital adrenal hyperplasia and partial androgen insensitivity syndrome who develop sex characteristics that are the opposite to their birth gender due to natural causes.
Maybe children who are receiving the treatments you describe will live to regret their decisions and we will hear about that in the future. To me it seems that the alternative of enforcing the status quo when we know that these people have a horrible time during adolescence which continues on into their adult lives isn't a realistic solution. We lack a miracle drug that will deliver the outcome that you desire, so, given that reality, do we do nothing or do we try some alternative approaches?
@Pantagonist: I think trans is a mental disorder, not that mental disorders are bought on by it. Trans could even be a version of bpd. They share a lot of traits.
Hermaphrodites are very very different to trans people. Hermaphroditic animals can change gender naturally and are able to actually function as the opposite sex. A male human having gender reassignment surgery is never going to become pregnant. A female human having gender reassignment surgery is never going to become a father. Hermaphrodites exist so that the species can continue, not because they have a mental health problem.
I can almost guarantee that a lot of the children will regret the decision. They never got to experience a normal childhood. They now have no possible way of going back. They can never have children of their own. Most kids have a horrible time during adolescence, it's no excuse to mutilate them and alter their hormones.
My 18 month old daughter was fixing her cubby with a screwdriver the other day, I didnt take her to the doctor because she is trans and doing "boy things". Kids explore, they much around, they don't know what boys or girls "should" do. Its ironic, because the same people who shout out against gender stereotyping, and say that gender is a social construct, are so fast to call someone transgender if they are doing something associated with the opposite gender, which according the them doesn't exist in the first place. Quite a paradox.
@brendanm: I can't guarantee that they'll be happy or unhappy with their decision in the same way that you can't. At this stage we just don't know how things will turn out. The only high profile case I know of is that of Jazz Jennings who was born in 2000 and diagnosed with GID in 2004. As far as I know, she doesn't regret her decision.
From my understanding, no parent with a potentially trans child sees them doing one activity that is stereotypical of the opposite sex and immediately starts asking them if they were born in the wrong body, coaching them to become trans or carting them off to doctors to be prescribed hormone blockers. I don't think any parent wants their child to be trans, mainly because it's not an easy path to go down.
I did see a show or report quite a while ago which profiled the journey of a child going through the process of obtaining hormone blockers (can't remember who it was or the name of the show, sorry) and it seemed like a fairly arduous process which involved a whole lot of psychological assessment and medical involvement before they were granted.
I'm not sure I have much more that I can contribute to this discussion, but I do thank you for engaging in it respectfully and for putting your points across without name calling or abuse. I don't agree with your point of view but I do have a better understanding of how you've come to the conclusions you have.
@Pantagonist: I appreciate you having a civil discussion as well, it's a breath of fresh air really. I feel much the same at this point, not much else can be said. Time will tell.
Have to say I appreciate the mods for allowing this discussion as well, if on whirlpool I would have been banned for it.
@brendanm: Regarding this bit:
Its ironic, because the same people who shout out against gender stereotyping, and say that gender is a social construct, are so fast to call someone transgender if they are doing something associated with the opposite gender, which according the them doesn't exist in the first place. Quite a paradox.
I think it comes down to supporting the person rather than telling them what they are or aren’t and what they are or aren’t supposed to be doing.
@chymb: The point was more that in one breath people will say that gender is a social construct, while in another they will say that gender reassignment surgery is a great idea. These things are at odds with each other.
It sets a dangerous precedent through. Hannah might be shit house and not have dominated the game, but what's to stop a really really good player declaring themselves female, then dominating and winning a flag for that team. Nothing (unless governing bodies intervene).
There's also nothing to stop an even bigger male say 6'6 200KG former rugby giant declaring themselves female, then seriously injuring a woman.
I've seen Hannah interviewed about this whole saga and her excuse why she should be allowed to play mostly boils down to "but I'm on hormone drugs that make me weak" which is 100% a cop out bulldust excuse.
Men and women are not physically equal. Never have been, never will be. As a result, their sports should be kept separate for fairness and safety reasons.
@Skramit: There is actually something to stop that – men don’t just declare themselves female for kicks.
@chymb: Agree but good luck stopping it. The lefties are pushing 'equality' so hard that this is one of the unintended consequences. It's a serious blight on society at the moment.
In 200 years historians will look back and wonder what the absolute fruitcake we were up to allowing men to declare themselves as women and compete PROFESSIONALLY in sport FOR MONEY.
Bonkers.
For clarity I have absolutely no issue with transgender people or the concept of transitioning. I only have an issue where people use it to their advantage unfairly in sports (or potentially business/schooling other areas for an unfair advantage).
It sets a dangerous precedent through.
At the moment I think there are so few cases of transgender althletes wanting to compete in the opposite category to their birth gender that it's possible to deal with each one on its merits.
For example, in Hannah's case the AFLW couldn't figure out how to handle her case so they barred her from the draft last season. The VFLW were happy to take a punt on letting her play and everything worked out fine. As I understand it, she's now looking to compete in sports like handball where there aren't as many barriers to entry for her.
The IOC is trialing a new way to tackle the issue by making testosterone level tests stricter for certain disciplines. It's a pretty new thing that sports are having to consider, so naturally the guidelines are still being figured out.
I don't think it makes sense to ban all trans athletes outright until everything is ironed out to perfection, because that's not how the development or rules happens in any sporting code. Regular AFL seems to have minor adjustments made to its rules all the time.
I can pretty safely say that the rest of your post is not a scenario that's likely to happen. Noone is going to choose to switch genders because they want to gain an advantage in a sport. I doubt that the desire for sporting success will ever override a person's gender identity. Until I'm proven wrong, I don't think the discussion needs to go beyond the hypothetical.
The lefties are pushing 'equality' so hard that this is one of the unintended consequences. It's a serious blight on society at the moment.
Again, this is all just speculation and hypotheticals. It's the same tactic that was used but the likes of Cory Bernardi when the same sex marriage debate was going on. "If we let gay people marry each other then what's next? Legalised bestiality?" It's just fearmongering with no basis in reality.
@Pantagonist: May want to look at the new zealand weightlifter who "transitioned", and until an injury, was kicking ass in the women's group.
It's a pretty new thing that sports are having to consider, so naturally the guidelines are still being figured out.
No it's not. For hundreds of years men and women have competed separately. Not just because of historical chauvinism, but simply because even in 1800's they knew it was unfair for men to compete in a women's race/sport. It's not rocket surgery and is NOT a new concept.
The solution is VERY VERY simple. But because it's a political hot potato because politicians and governing bodies such as the IOC, have to 'appear' to be LGBTIQ supportive and this everyone is equal (including physically euqal) rubbish, this kind of garbage is now allowed so that IOC etc doesn't get branded as sexist or whatever. It's become far too political based on feelings and should be a basic scientific facts and figures decision due to the chromosome differences between males and females.
I support anyone who wishes to transition (except kids, but that's another thread) but IMO at that point of transitioning, they should simply give up all rights to compete professionally in any sport. Amateur is fine (probably). But anything that involves money is a simple denial of entry IMO.
I don't think it makes sense to ban all trans athletes outright until everything is ironed out to perfection
Why not? I do. This is not a case of 'development of rules'. This is identical to a case of letting an 18 year old compete in an U12 footy competition. The rules are very basic and based on science, not feelings. Age based rules, sex based rules are needed for very very obvious reasons.
It's just fearmongering with no basis in reality.
Rubbish. Ask the two female cyclists who placed 2nd and 3rd in the world champship to the MALE winner in the female competition. A blatent unfair advantage. That's not fear mongering. https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2018/october/transgender-man…
Also please don't bring SSM into this, it's a completely separate issue and nothing to do with the topic. Trying to somehow conflate that banning men from competing in female sports is the same sort of SSM/ssexist bigotry is simply wrong and a diversion.
@Skramit: My point is that the "blight" on society that you perceive to be exist is largely a construct of your own wild imagination, as the issue is hardly widespread and tends to be dealt with on a case by case basis by the sporting codes involved.
I bring SSM rhetoric into this because the "oooh what might happen?" arm waving is reminiscent of the strategies employed by conservatives while the debate was going on. Over a year later, heterosexual marriage still exists in the same form and no one has married an animal. I expect that trend to continue.
@Pantagonist: True, the 'blight on society' comment was an exaggeration.
Here's another really good way of highlighting the issue of men in womens sport. The Paralympics has multiple categories for the same races based on the physical differences in the athletes. For example, a bloke with 2 arms can swim a lot faster than a bloke with 1 arm. So they don't compete in the same category, they MUST compete against like bodied competitors.
Apply the same thinking to men competing in womens sport. The blokes have different genetic makeups - making them stronger, faster, bigger etc. It's as if they have 2 arms when the ladies have 1. They are not 'like bodied' or whatever the term is….So they shouldn't compete.
The blade runner bloke from South Africa with his carbon legs from the knee down, it was idiotic, unfair, potentially dangerous and entirely stupid in general to allow him to compete in the Olympics. (But the fuzzy warm feels won the argument).
As a closing brain fart….I would wildly speculate the following:
- 90% of the population support transgender people and transitioning people in general, (or simply don't care).
- 90% of the population think transgender people competing in professional sport FOR MONEY/FAME is idiotic, unfair, potentially dangerous and entirely stupid in general.
@Skramit: Please read my reply to brendanm further up the page as what I wrote pertains to the issues you've outlined.
@Skramit: The fact that you call a transgender female “MALE” suggests that it is the same bigotry.
The fact that you think “Amateur is fine” suggests to me that you haven’t really thought about it enough.
The fact that the article you’ve linked to is from such a reputable source as “The Christian Broadcasting Network” suggests that the wider world doesn’t really think it’s that much of a problem. In fairness to they CBN, they do say that the runner-up had no problem with the result and was happy for the winner. Of course their headline is transphobic.@chymb: Typical response.
How about have a discussion about the issue and provide your opinions instead of just attacking me for having an opinion and calling me a bigot? And then saying "well that site isnt creditble", instead of even refuting what they are saying. There are 50 sites with the same news, it was a random one i found by googling it.
It's just lazy and unimaginative, and if that's all you have to offer, I pity you.
Also, I am referring to their genetic makeup by saying they are MALE, for the purposes of the discussion as it's simpler to highlight the issues. But if you choose to see that as bigotry or whatever, you are completely missing the point.
@Skramit: Typical response.
If you really cared about being called a bigot rather than allowing it to give you some imaginary high-ground you’d use language that you know won’t derail the conversation from the topic.
MALE is bigoted language and you use it because you know it. “Transgender woman” is surely just as easy for you, and is even clearer language, to use but your transphobia, your wish to derail conversations or “trigger snowflakes”, or something else prevents you from using it.
I’m not attacking you for having an opinion. I’m not even attacking you.I don’t need to express an opinion on the matter. I’m quite happy to leave that to experts and people directly affected by such things.
I don’t need to express an opinion
so basically you're just here to troll, throw cheap labels around like you're morally superior and abuse people? well done.
I’m not even attacking you.
bigotry
you haven’t really thought about it
use but your transphobia
your wish to derail conversationsYou call me a bigot (false), transphobic (false), derailing conversations(false), and i havent thought about it(false).
You don't even know what you write yourself I guess….
MALE is bigoted language
No it's not. Males who identify as females, are still scientifically/genetically male and that's what the discussion was about. Genetic males competing in genetic female sports is the precise topic at hand. For simplicity I was referring to them as males in the context at hand. but you cant see through the hatred lense right? Anyone daring to question the stupidity of trans people in sport must just be a bigoted transphobic?
hah.
@Skramit: They are women’s competitions not female ones.
It is no simpler to refer to them as “MALE”. However, it does make it easier to derail conversations.
If you really don’t want to be mistaken for a transphobe you should choose your words more carefully – “the stupidity of trans people in sport” sounds a lot like something a transphobic person would say.
I have no doubt there are useful discussions to be had on the topic. Bigots and the uninformed won’t be the ones having them.
@chymb: And here we have the typical raging liberal. Entire argument is "bigot", "transphobe", "reeee my feelings". Common sense goes out the window.
Your feelings don't change the fact that women and mens bodies are made differently, and that most men have an advantage in most physical sports. If this wasn't true, we wouldnt have mens and womens sports seperated to begin with.
@brendanm: Skramit claimed there was no bigotry at play in this discussion but the language used suggests otherwise so I pointed it out.
When did I talk about my feelings?
I’ve not mentioned anything about men and women playing sport.
I’ve not mentioned anything about men and women playing sport.
That was well noted already, hence you are essentially just trolling. Move along.
@Skramit: I’m actually trying to do us all a favour, you claim that “liberals” just cry “bigot” when you try to have such a discussion and I say it’s because you are using bigoted language either through bigotry or carelessness.
If you really want to keep the conversation on track you could try to use such language more carefully.
I saw that person in the city recently. Reminded me of Stew Pot in South Pacific.
The afl made some huge errors in deciding to launch the women's league.
They didn't start with grass roots support. They went from the top down.
Because of this they ended up needing to recruit athletes from other sports because they didn't have enough women. The athletes from other sports like hockey and basketball are elite level athletes who only came across because the afl threw a ludicrous amount of money at it. Most of the women wouldn't play footy at all without the cash lure.
They didn't test any of it. What kind of rules should the women have etc. With a grass roots development they'd know how to launch a good product. They just launched and hoped to keep people interested with the power of guilt.
Those in top levels of sport management all seem to agree behind closed doors that the women's afl is doomed.
ended up needing to recruit athletes from other sports because they didn't have enough women.
The NRL did this two. I remeber hearing a women interviewed before the "grand final" who said she only started playing rugby league 12 months ago. 12 months! Yet all they sudden they expected to be taken serious and get the same amount of media attention? When their male counter parts have spent almost their entire life training, competing and learning the sport?
It's a complete joke.
Until there is an AFLW there is a very limited “grass roots” so, instead, the men have to carry the league for a few years.
Are you sure those women didn’t want to play elite footy but there was no such thing until now?
I know of several women who were playing in the WNBL and they switched purely for the money. They are open about it. They plan on switching back to basketball when the golden goose finishes laying eggs. If they were offered only slightly more for footy they still would not have switched - it was because it was so much more money.
until they realise they cant because footyball has ruined their bodies…then theyll complain and demand payment for loss and suffering.
Totally about the money.
You go on about how they entered too early and it is a failure because of it. I would argue the opposite that it is successful because they didnt wait for the grassroots support to go in.
The AFL were considering this as a long term investment that they were going to lose money for in the first few years. They have probably had more costly ventures for far less return in GWS and GC.
In 2017 the female participation rate increased by 76%. https://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-11-30/football-participatio…. Without any hard numbers I would say that this alone shows why the afl is doing it. Increased female participation = Increased interest in the future in going to games, buying membership and just supporting the game.
A bit like the last round of AFL expansion into areas that don't give a flying f about AFL
Now I wanna go to pancake manor and get 35 waffles….
Just more propaganda to turn men into women and women into men, driven by the banks (in this case NAB).
Really? To what nefarious ends?
@brendanm: No, its more that there's only about 100,000 Victorian / South Australian interstate migrants in Sydney because those people are the only ones who give a rat's about AFL