Why Do People Worship Amazon over Our Aussie Stores?

MementoMori on 03/12/2019 - 11:28

One thing that puzzles me is the negative sentiment against Australian bricks and mortar stores like JB Hi Fi, Target, Good Guys and Big W, and the worship of Amazon.

I've seen more than one 'deal' where Amazon has simply price matched one of these guys. First of all, how is it a deal just to price match? I understand many here work office jobs and like getting things delivered but even so isn't it better to pick it up straight away?

I can only assume people can't see the importance of supporting our Australian retailers or simply don't care. I imagine they must feel like they've been 'ripped off by the big guys in the past' and/or only care about the lowest possible price regardless of the companies employee standards (Amazon is notorious in this department), any future market conditions/competition or any appreciation or loyalty to our high standard Australian way of life and why it is the way it is (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_labour_movement#Eig…).

Have people forgotten what happened to Dick Smith Electronics? What do people think will happen once the other Australian retailers go the same way? Do we really want to end up like America with $11 per hour pays?

Note to IT workers - Target et al also need Solution Architects and so on… don't think this is just a low skilled worker thing.

General Discussion

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Comments

  • Fergy1987 on 03/12/2019 - 11:33
    +38

    Thanks Gerry Harvey

    • Gerry H on 04/12/2019 - 16:14
      +1

      i didn't make this post

      • Fergy1987 on 04/12/2019 - 17:22
        +3

        Ah well - you're still a twat Gerry :)

        Kind Regards,

        Australia

  • GG57 on 03/12/2019 - 11:36
    +8

    I'm with you OP.
    Added to your list should be the impacts of Amazon's world renowned over-packaging, along with the additional costs and other effects from the product deliveries (and a % of returns).

  • Sage on 03/12/2019 - 11:39
    +7

    I know right? Drives me nuts.
    All the grocery deals where it's the same price or slightly higher than any local supermarket.
    And you're right, a lot of the deals are price matches.

    Note to IT workers - Target et al also need Solution Architects and so on… don't think this is just a low skilled worker thing.

    I heard about this.

  • apsilon on 03/12/2019 - 11:40
    +10

    Well I still buy things at JB and Big W and other places but for me Amazon has replaced ebay for all those bits now that ebay doesn't do site wide discounts. No bricks and mortar store in Aust matches the range and therefore the convenience. At least half of what I buy simply isn't available from a local store. I've also bought things from Amazon that were the same price as elsewhere as once cashreward/shopback is factored in it's cheaper plus free delivery with Prime whereas locals tend to charge a minimum $12.95

  • Xyzzy on 03/12/2019 - 11:43
    +16

    I haven't noticed a particular strong negative sentiment for the B&M stores you mention. Harvey Norman, yes - but he has a history with OzBargain.

    And yes, people here generally only "only care about the lowest possible price". This is OzBargain.

    Though anytime someone posts/recommends a price-match, the OzBargain regulars are pretty quick to suggest rewarding the store that had the lower price first with your business, rather than the price-matcher.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/12/2019 - 17:51

      Price matching deters competition and sale pricing, rewarding a company that put on the discount with a sale is better for the consumer in the long run as it encourages competition.

  • Skramit on 03/12/2019 - 11:45
    +19

    Most of my worship is because of free delivery with Prime from Amazon.

    Order online from any of the other stores and they slap you with $10-20 delivery.

    • dcep on 03/12/2019 - 11:54
      +4

      or minimum order of $50 or $100 for free delivery

      which is too much

      • AS2035 on 11/12/2019 - 20:17

        Still cheaper then buying in store in Australia

  • Almost Banned on 03/12/2019 - 11:52
    +16

    I have absolutely zero store loyalty - or antipathy. I only care about bargains.
    I will factor in convenience and postage in determining whether something is a bargain.

    • seraphim2017 on 03/12/2019 - 11:59
      +6

      This. A store/business such as this would not reward loyalty with flexibility or better offers in general. Plus, I dislike the see sawing of prices in stores, it's annoying. If a product can be sold for $799 one day, it's value is $799. When charge me $1199 as its 'regular' price that doesn't sel much? To encourage me to believe at $799 it's a steal when it's actually the true value.

      When looking for goods, a bargain is the lowest price that would still provide the same service. I've paid slightly more for something I needed rather than reward Gerry Harvey's business model of bleating about competition preventing him from gouging his customer base. That and the fact that the first and last time I purchased from HN and had an issue, they ignored the ACL and told me it was tough and to go to the manufacturer, and wouldn't have a bar of it. Who knows if the product (expensive) would have been older than a year at the time!!!

      I don't find Amazon the cheapest, but their returns and CS are generally second to none, and when you have a problem with something, that is when CS sticks in your mind. Given we generally buy a lot of consumer goods on Ozbargain, we have more of these experiences so are likely to remember poor service and not reward it with more opportunities to do it again.

    • MementoMori on 03/12/2019 - 15:57
      -6

      Devils advocate question! ;)

      If you only cared about bargains and the cheapest price - why not move to central Africa? You can get lunch for 10c.

      I imagine though you care more about the cheapest price, and care about other things like quality of life and so on.

      I get it people don't see the direct connection, but there is a connection.

      • Almost Banned on 03/12/2019 - 16:41
        +1

        I think every rational person tries to maximise value in every area of their life.
        That always involves trade-offs.
        I cannot work remotely, so must live somewhat near my work. Of couse I could work in a different field, but it is unlikely it would be as remunerative.
        I could perhaps live somewhere else, but would the other costs outweigh the benefits?
        The short answer is that while rent may be cheaper in central Africa, my employment would be uncertain, and other costs likely outweigh the benefits.
        As for bargains, I work hard to earn money so want to ensure I maximise the return on my spend. I don't understand any other way. Paying more than I have to for he exact same item seems irrational - unless there is another factor which needs consideration.
        There are some sellers I consider unreliable, so might not buy from even if they were cheapest.
        There are some sellers who have a good reputation for customer service - so if it was an item where I was concerned about after-market service I might choose a slighter dearer price from a retailer with good service.
        Its all part of a rich tapestry. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfKW5oYViM0

  • skinner on 03/12/2019 - 12:01
    +5

    I'm not negative against any of those particular retailers but would probably use Amazon more now and not just for price, their service seems better as well (I've heard issues with returns etc but it's not something I've had to deal with yet).
    - Usually free post + price match + cashback means they're almost always cheaper.
    - I've always had pre-orders delivered on release day.
    - Items are packaged well (just a box and some paper so not excessive) and arrive in good condition.

    I ordered a bunch of stuff in their Black Friday deals and it was delivered to me at work yesterday morning. Compare that to the Click & Collect I got from JB Hi-Fi where I had to drive 15mins each way and wait 15mins at the store while they found the order and organised printers etc. Should've just paid the $5 postage.

    Also regarding your love-affair with Dick Smith. The Dick Smith that went bust is a far cry from the one that was actually owned by Dick himself and was structured to rip as much money out of Australian investors as possible.

  • Cluster on 03/12/2019 - 12:08
    +11

    "Have people forgotten what happened to Dick Smith Electronics?"

    We haven't forgotten. They were bought out by a private equity company, loaded with debt, shonky accounting was used to pump up the apparent value and then it was thrust onto unsuspecting Australians to buy. It collapsed within 2 years. How exactly am I meant to feel sorry for them?

    DSE was infamous for selling $4 cables for $30. Dick Smith himself sold the chain in the early 1980s, so anyone waxing lyrical about DSE must be referring to the store of the 1970s.

    I do a lot of shopping online, and mostly find what I want through eBay. I have purchased a few things through Amazon and been happy so far. Do I still go to JB/BigW/KMart if I want something? Sure.

    Sometimes retailers only have themselves to blame for antipathy. In my local shopping centre there are two retailers that always have 50 to 80% off special on everything. One sells really tacky luggage for $400 (but now only $200! WOW!) and another sells kitchenware ($150 frying pan! But now only $75!). It's ridiculous, crass, and guarantees I will never buy anything there.

  • Bid Sniper on 03/12/2019 - 12:15
    +7

    Try to avoid Amazon as much as I can.

    Anti competitive business model, once they destroy competition then they will have a monopoly. As us Aussie know, monopolies are just great to deal with…

  • Diji1 on 03/12/2019 - 12:16
    -4

    Australian's pay, quality of life and conditions have been falling since the early 1980s after neoliberals took over the Labor Party starting with the Keating Hawke years.

    For some reason you're carrying on as though this is the lucky country still. National median income was $44,000 in 2017 and was falling as it has been for the last 40 years.

    I don't give a shit about Australian retailers. The billionaire owners of the largest businesses in Australia have used lobbying to arrange the country for their own benefit at my expense. For example I pay more tax than the billionaires.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-26/frijters-foster-battl…

    I lost faith in the economic dribble about competition years ago. It's an economic theory that doesn't predict reality. Even Rodney Sims said it wasn't working in 2016 although that moron still believes in the theory.

    • Baysew on 04/12/2019 - 09:59
      +1

      Yes, it's the Greens fault.

  • KBZ on 03/12/2019 - 12:16
    +2

    Wait so you're saying I should be paying more to a private business whose purpose is to generate profit to protect it from another corporate business?

    • Diji1 on 03/12/2019 - 12:18

      It's the free market right up until there's a special exception for businesses that want to charge more :p

    • Cluster on 03/12/2019 - 12:27
      +4

      Amazon has the ability to avoid paying taxes in Australia (like Apple, or most other large corporates). They rightly claim 'we pay every dollar of tax we're required to pay', but of course they can do tricky things like funneling sales through Ireland/Netherlands/etc. Try claiming your residence is in Amsterdam for tax purposes and see how far you get. The other way to avoid paying tax is rely on your share price to go up while making sure your expenses are large enough to consume all profit. Therefore you make no profit, so you pay no income tax.

      The long term solution is better laws that close the loopholes. We even had a ridiculous situation where the Irish government was fighting the EU's attempts to give Ireland 14 billion Euros in back taxes. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45566364 Fancy that, a government that doesn't want billions in extra revenue. This was all because Ireland didn't want to lose corporations that set up in their cozy little EU tax haven.

      • GG57 on 03/12/2019 - 12:48
        +2

        France is about to introduce a 'Tech Tax', with similar laws in Austria, Italy, Turkey, and the UK.

        "France has long argued that taxes should be based on digital activity, not just where firms have their headquarters.
        Its new law imposes a 3% tax on sales of certain digital services that happen within its borders. It applies to any digital company with revenue of more than €750m ($850m; £670m) - of which at least €25m is generated in France.
        The tax will go into effect retroactively from early 2019 and is expected to raise about €400m this year.
        About 30 companies are expected to pay it, mostly US firms such as Alphabet, Apple, Facebook, Amazon and Microsoft.        "

      • c64 on 03/12/2019 - 13:35
        +1

        i remember reading the australia is considering doing similar

        • GG57 on 03/12/2019 - 13:42
          +1

          Yes, but I also believe that the latest Free Trade Agreement with USA might have sold us out. Happy to be corrected though.

    • MementoMori on 03/12/2019 - 16:01

      Please point out where I said you should pay more…

  • c64 on 03/12/2019 - 12:23
    +1

    competition is beneficial

  • Simoneee on 03/12/2019 - 12:31
    +2

    I purchase from whatever store is cheaper

  • arkie0 on 03/12/2019 - 12:37
    +4

    The overall experience with Amazon is just way better than other B&M and online retailers, mainly calling through to their support line. Also low cost / free shipping.

  • spiff on 03/12/2019 - 12:43

    I worship the cheaper price

  • brendanm on 03/12/2019 - 12:54
    -2

    I don't care about the employee conditions. If they choose to work there, it can't be that bad.

    Amazon often have lower prices, and are easy to deal with. JB hi-fi is my other go to, they are normally reasonable on price after you negotiate.

    • MementoMori on 03/12/2019 - 16:00
      +1

      "Choose"

      • brendanm on 03/12/2019 - 18:02
        -2

        Were they rounded up and forced into slavery?

        • MementoMori on 03/12/2019 - 19:56
          +3

          All I’m saying is it’s not as black and white as you make out.

          • brendanm on 03/12/2019 - 20:43
            -1

            @MementoMori: So Amazon are actually rounding people up, and shackling them to their shipping stations? That's heinous, how can they get away with it?

          • brendanm on 04/12/2019 - 15:18

            @MementoMori: The funny thing is, the people negging me want Amazon to collapse, then the people working there have no job, which last time I checked, is worse than a crap job.

            • ribbonsofnight on 04/12/2019 - 22:29

              @brendanm: And when all our retailers shed jobs people are out of a job too. Amazon has probably already made a net reduction in the amount of Australians with jobs

              • brendanm on 04/12/2019 - 23:19

                @ribbonsofnight: Then they should be competitive, or simply provide decent service. I'm happy to buy local if they actually have the item in stock, and there is someone to serve me.

  • FireRunner on 03/12/2019 - 13:03
    +1

    I do prefer to Amazon due to cheaper price but if it's the same I'll try to support local business

  • happirt on 03/12/2019 - 13:19
    -2

    au are known for being good at mining, not electronics or retail or technology.
    most of the companies you mentioned are just 3rd party resellers.
    local jobs you mention are just importing and reselling, of course it'll be more expensive

  • TEER3X on 03/12/2019 - 13:47

    Reminds me of the anti-Aldi sentiment when they first started.

    It's no secret no one cares about anything but price.

    Amazon are definitely responsible for bankrupting lots of b&m stores in the US. Soon it's going to be just them and Walmart left.

    Wait till all of their warehouses are completely automated (some pretty much are 100%), and drones make the deliveries.

    • MementoMori on 03/12/2019 - 15:59

      Yes - this is my point.

      Is this what we want? People are happy with this?

      • happirt on 04/12/2019 - 13:44

        I don't see Vegemite or Kogan brand being a top seller worldwide anytime soon.
        Business competition is weak here.

  • HardlyCharly on 03/12/2019 - 13:51
    +2

    Don't know what you're talking about. I have not encountered any sort of Amazon worship in Australia. Unlike in other countries apparently, I've found it to be quite useless so far. I think I've bought two things from Amazon total since they launched the .au and still find eBay and other local online stores far more useful.

    • TEER3X on 03/12/2019 - 14:13

      Amazon was useless in the US when it first launched it will take some time. Not entirely useless as I did order some books from them in 2001 I think it was

  • Bargain80 on 03/12/2019 - 14:36

    I'm not a big fan of HN.
    But I still shop from some local retailer (either online or physical store).

    I don't see anything special in Amazon AU in terms of price or item range.

  • Oz em on 03/12/2019 - 14:47
    -2

    Afterpay will beat amazon in the end. I’d pay more to click and collect or free delivery with afterpay than having to pay the full amount on amazon.

    • KBZ on 03/12/2019 - 15:38

      Afterpay will beat amazon in the end.

      What are you on about Afterpay is a payment method it doesn't compete directly with Amazon.
      All Amazon needs to do if it saw sales drop cause of 'buy now pay later' options they'd implement it themselves or Afterpay would be offered, in Japan I believe they partnered with one provider.

      • KBZ on 03/12/2019 - 16:54

        Oh and I forgot they already do they have Zip, hence we had the Zip 10% bargain post..

  • try2bhelpful on 03/12/2019 - 17:39

    If they are comparable I always go B&M even though we have Amazon prime. I much prefer picking something up than waiting for it to be delivered. Where Prime comes into its own is when you have something much cheaper and delivery is free. Also some of the programs on Prime are pretty good. I buy some stuff from Kitchen Warehouse but their click and collect has a delivery fee; otherwise I would be OK to buy more from their stores, even though I have to drive there.

  • jacross on 04/12/2019 - 08:06
    +1

    If anything the Amazon deals here have highlighted that Amazon has not been a magic bullet of bargains.

    In general I haven't seen much of a pro-amazon sentiment either. I'd be interested to see some figures but the move into Aus hasn't really shown a 'talked about' market disruption like it was hyped to do.

  • OzHunterNSW on 04/12/2019 - 09:38

    Who do you work for.
    Who cares where people shop and choose how to.
    These bricks and mortar cost me 10% extra when I purchase items that they may stock, but at an exorbitant price.
    No wonder they go out of business.
    They are the corner store…. get over it… progress with life.

  • WilliamPowerfish on 04/12/2019 - 10:07

    A majority of my online purchasing came from eBay. I hate eBay with a passion, they have never supported sellers, always the buyers. The minute I could switch, that is what I did.

    I sincerely hope eBay crashes and burns, they've been the monopoly for far too long and knew it, now they're having sales left right and centre to maintain market share. No thank you.

  • skillet on 04/12/2019 - 10:13

    Setup am online store with same level of customer service and pricing as Amazon you will see people flock the store. People love a bargain, prices and convenience rule them all. Amazon AU I won't consider best price and it doesn't always have the things I want.

    B&M stores are for people who have too much time for a item that need replenishing. You easily lose an hour if not fortunate to live close to such stores.

  • lint on 04/12/2019 - 10:21
    +1

    For me, it's the convenience of being able to immediately whether the item is in stock and being able to have it delivered to me in a few clicks.

    Too many times I've ordered from a retailer's online store only to have my order cancelled because they realised they didn't have stock. Or when I go to the store with the special as soon as practical, they didn't get it in (if it was releasing that day), or they're already sold out. And then a half-to-one hour detour from my normal routine may turn into over two hours trying to find the item in stock.

    Don't worry, I still shop at brick and mortar stores. I do plenty of shopping at JB and the other stores you mention. I don't use Amazon for groceries and most supermarket items. Maybe instead of crying foul like Gerry Harvey, if retailers are getting hit in the pockets from Amazon they should use it as a catalyst to improve their backend and customer service so they're just as easy to shop with.

    It's something they should do regardless of whether Amazon exists anyway, and if they can offer similar price and convenience, the customers will come. I don't care about Jeff Bezos. If there's an alternative, sure I'll take it.

    But Dick Smith went under because of management and poor strategy, you're deluded if you think it's consumers' fault.

  • jhaley3180 on 04/12/2019 - 10:51

    I've simply had outstandingly good customer service from Amazon repeatedly. If the other B&M stores could provide a better customer service experience I'd be happy.

    Examples of excellent service = refund on item damaged in post. Refund and free replacement on item with slightly incorrect description. Refund and free replacements on 3 warranty issues over 5 years.

    I don't have a problem with any B&M store, but Amazon seems to take a similar customer centric approach as Aldi. Treat me well and I'll support you. Treat me like you're churning butter (JB I'm looking at you) and there are alternatives like Amazon.

  • Hybroid on 04/12/2019 - 11:13

    I've been an Amazon customer in the UK since 2008 with thousands of orders to-date. It started off being mostly ordering books cheaper than Waterstones/WH Smith that you got delivered in a couple of days. Then they expanded to their Kindle range, then other electronics, then PC/console games to literally anything you can think of today from clothing to furniture to gift sets to everything.

    Their delivery went from few days delivery to introduction of Prime next day delivery where you order by 9PM and get it following morning to same day 1-2 hour delivery in large cities. I'm hoping by supporting them here, they will build a similar logistics network here to provide that service while still being generally cheapest. Coupled with fantastic no-fuss returns policy and customer service when something goes wrong.

    There's also something nice about getting a package to open delivered to home/office/parcel locker than picking up the item directly in-store (others may feel the opposite). Amazon also have their Smile program (not here yet though) where a 0.5% portion of your purchases go to charities of your choice.

    I'm very happy with them and to be honest willing to support them over other stores as it works for me, great selection, great prices, great support and great delivery convenience that's continuously improving. You also get Prime Video/Music/Storage/etc bundled in which is a good perk albeit not as great as other standalone offerings like say Netflix. I have no interest in their Alexa devices however (or any other always-listening devices for that matter).

  • ozbjunkie on 04/12/2019 - 11:53

    When Aussie retailers match or beat Amazon prices, and ease of return policy, I buy from them.

    Doesn't happen often though.

  • AS2035 on 04/12/2019 - 12:38
    +2
    1. Customer Service is better in USA/UK Amazon
    2. I try getting almost all that I can at the farmers markets:

    - quality
    -pricing
    - service

    Our stores are overpriced.. customer service is shocking.. They need to pull their socks up or even large stores like Myer will only exist online.

  • ribbonsofnight on 04/12/2019 - 22:32

    Are Amazon going to contract out deliveries to companies which make their employees lives hell and endanger the safety of people on the roads like their US operation. They're crooks and I'll never buy from them.

  • 00 on 11/12/2019 - 00:01

    Amazon AI will own you in the end.

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