[NSW] Do I Need to Indicate with My Blinker at This Small Street Junction When Turning?

To clarify, I am a new P plater and this scenario happened recently. This happened on a suburban street so it isn't a major intersection or anything.

I was following the pink path looking to turn right when I was told that I had to indicate when turning right here. It is my understanding that I don't need to indicate here as I am simply going straight in a way (despite the road ending) and still had the right of way considering both sides have a stop sign and a give-way sign.

Please inform me. Cheers

Diagram here: https://i.imgur.com/Fg2xKVm.png

Poll Options expired

  • 631
    Yes
  • 125
    No

Comments

  • +44 votes

    Answer is Yes. You have to indicate

    • +55 votes

      I would indicate to be safe, but if there are markings on the road to indicate that it's just a bend in the one road, technically OP may not be required to.

      • -29 votes

        This. If no lines are crossed, you don't need to indicate.

        • +3 votes

          How about entering a parking bay?

        • +10 votes

          If no lines are crossed, you don't need to indicate.

          Please cite that piece of legislation…

          I'll give you a hint… Start here.

          ARR 45:

          What is changing direction
          (1) A driver changes direction if the driver changes direction to the left or the driver changes direction to the right.
          (3) A driver changes direction to the right by doing any of the following—
          (a) turning right,

          ARR 48:

          Giving a right change of direction signal
          (1) Before a driver changes direction to the right, the driver must give a right change of direction signal in accordance with rule 49

          • +4 votes

            @pegaxs: Is Car A supposed to indicate here?

            • +3 votes

              @Ughhh: No, because of the markings that outline the continuation of the road. This is not the same as OP's example. It also isn't relevant to what @knobbs said.

              If no lines are crossed, you don't need to indicate.

              This is a blanket statement and as a blanket statement, it is incorrect. A road can have a stop/giveway sign and no marked line, but if you wanted to turn there, you would need to indicate. If you pull out of or into a parking space, no lines are crossed, but you still have to indicate. Just because there is "no line" does not mean that a driver does not have to indicate.

              In OP's example, you must indicate, because there is no markings to outline the continuation of the main part of the road around to the right. The road dead heads and even though the other cars have to give way, OP's road is still ending.

              This is an example of what OP is asking. The road you are on, Gilba Road, is ending. There is no "continuation" of Gilba Road, so a driver needs to "turn left" or "turn right". If they turn left OR right, they need to indicate to get off Gilba Road.

              Your example is not OP's. Yours shows a clear set of markings and a where the continuation of the road goes. If @knobbs was correct, then why is "Car A" indicating in this example

              • -1 vote

                @pegaxs: My reply wasn't exactly in regards to OPs situation, but rather your previous comment, which was generic and implied it applies whenever you change direction

                ARR 45:
                What is changing direction
                (1) A driver changes direction if the driver changes direction to the left or the driver changes direction to the right.
                (3) A driver changes direction to the right by doing any of the following—
                (a) turning right,
                ARR 48:
                Giving a right change of direction signal
                (1) Before a driver changes direction to the right, the driver must give a right change of direction signal in accordance with rule 49

                • +2 votes

                  @Ughhh: Then in that case, you will have to write a letter to your local member of parliament to get them to ask the people who write the legislation. I didn't word it, I just cut and pasted it.

                  If a road "ends" and you have the option of going left or right, you have to "turn" (OP's example)
                  If a road "curves" and you are following the "continuation of the road", you are "following the road", hence why Car A in your example does not have an indicator on.

                  If a road has a 90 degree bend in it, am I "turning" or "following the continuation of the road"??

                  And with my original comment, I was just pointing out that @knobbs was wrong in stating that "if there are no lines, you do not have to indicate", which is absolutely wrong.

              • +1 vote

                @pegaxs: This brought back some good memories, I grew up at Pendle Hill and if you follow the white/cream fence in Gilba Road the next yard has a for sale sign and that is the house I grew up in…. spent many many many trips both on foot and in car through that intersection. It is so different now though.

        • +3 votes

          if no lines are crossed, you don't need to indicate.

          lol. that is any t-junction

        •  

          You haven’t been out to regional QLD ? What lines ?

      • +1 vote

        just based on the picture, it's a T intersection, not just a bend of one road.
        usually (in QLD at least), on bending road, the other road will be coloured differently.

      •  

        if there are markings on the road to indicate that it's just a bend in the one road

        But, for clarity, OP's example has no such markings.

        Similarly, if there were a stop sign in front of OP, they would be required to stop ;)

    • +8 votes

      This example was recently given by vic/nsw roads and it went viral on social and split the community.

      The correct answer given by vic roads after all the drama is no.

      PS. The way the OP has drawn some lane markings is also intended the create confusion.
      PSS. This is a example but flanked by 2 give way signs.
      https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8046842,144.8850538,3a,75y,318.49h,73.01t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1shyvh-c30eS-JevP8tOojMw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

      • +24 votes

        Don't let a technicality get in the way of common sense. If the two other drivers know what is going on the likelihood of an accident is reduced significantly.

        • +22 votes

          it's just a flick of the signal switch. just let other drivers know where you are heading. come on!

        • -2 votes

          Both other drives must give way to the OP. There is not confusion here cept for poor driving if any other car causes an accident.

          • +2 votes

            @Lv80: Insurance claims and especially write offs are a pain in the a$$. I'd rather avoid the accident than claim a victory because it wasn't my fault.

      •  

        That example may not be the same as the OP. It helps to always indicate but in that link there are two lanes to seperate going left or right, it would be a lot more consuing with one lane. Probably we technically still wouldnt have to signal but it would be ideal to do so I think.

      •  

        i've seen at least 3 different google maps addresses now claiming to be the intersection in question. He hasn't confirmed which one (if any) it is.

        • +1 vote

          fyi I never claimed it was the one in question, I just said it was an example (of something similar).

      •  

        That on has line markings (albeit worn/obscured) to show that the right hand lane continues around the corner though.

      • +1 vote

        The correct answer given by vic roads

        Please supply source to this example. I want to see what they offered as their example and what was said.

        And you're example is not the same as OP's. In your example, there is a clear line making the lane and a traffic direction indication marked on the road that indicates the continuation of Geelong St.) around to the right.

        This example is closer to what OP has drawn, where there is no marking on the road to indicate that Gilba Road continues in any direction.

        •  

          But Geelong St does not continue around the corner, it is called Williamstown Rd (which is also the street on the left!):
          https://www.google.com/maps/@-37.8048414,144.8852654,18.02z

          I agree that your Gilba Rd example is a good one

          •  

            @kingsville: The street "name" does not continue around, but the markings on the road (edge lane makers and that big arrow) show the lane continuation from Geelong St into Williamstown Rd.

            This was the example @arkie0 presented as being the same as OP's drawing. I was just showing that it is not and that the Gilba St. example is more closely related to OP's drawing.

        •  

          You are correct in your example and I believe am correct in mine.

          Until the OP responds and clarifies his example, both our examples may be correct based the real street location.

          OP is a new member and has been online but not responded to anything, so I going to say this is a troll post with the map drawn with ambiguity on purpose to generate discussion.

          when I was told that I had to indicate when turning right here

          Also who told OP? his mate or a Police officer? Again without clarification smells of troll.

          •  

            @arkie0: I would really like to see the link to/source of the claim you made about the Vic/NSW Example that was posted on social media.

            As to your example, no, you do not have to indicate there, as it is clearly marked out with lane edge markings and a right turn only arrow on the road. There is no option from that lane to turn left here, so this is a bend in the road. So, I agree with you "on your example."

            The problem with OP's drawing and what OP has said ("despite the road ending"), in their example, this road just ends and there are no marks to indicate or suggestion that there is a continuation of this lane. I believe the drawing is deliberately vague for the "troll" aspect of it. It would have been far easier to cut and paste a link from Google Maps.

            vtech2

            Member Since
            11/01/2020
            Last Seen
            20 min ago
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            And yes, I too am banking that OP is trolling. They have had every opportunity to comment and clear up exactly what intersection it is, but wont even comment on anything.

    • -1 vote

      No it's not. There is no requirement to indicate. They are not turning off or changing lanes, they are continuing along the roadway. If that roadway goes around a corner, so be it. Indicating is wrong and could lead to accidents.

  • +1 vote

    Of course you do.

  • +78 votes

    If in doubt, indicate. It costs you nothing. Doesn't matter if you have to do it or not.

  • +28 votes

    No, never indicate. You own the road, it's yours.

    /s

  • +10 votes

    I am turning and a there is an intersection. Don't get into bad habits from the start by not indicating. It might save you from an accident.

  • +25 votes

    In a BMW = No
    Any other car = Yes

    vtech2

    I'm guessing you may be a Honda driver. No need to indicate just enter vtec mode, hold on and enjoy the ride.

    You may be a P plate on the road but definitely God level on ms paint. Cheers

  • +1 vote

    Member Since 52 min ago.
    New member, with car related questions. Most of the time.

    Answer to OP: Common courtesy, especially for the guy in give way lane. You may not indicate if no one around, its up to you.

    • +2 votes

      Indicate where appropriate, regardless of whether you think anyone is around or not - you don't always see them.

  • +6 votes

    Yes….although you have right of way the other cars need to know which way you are going…

    • +5 votes

      Sigh.

      No such thing as right of way. The other directions have signs showing who has higher priority to give way.

  • +18 votes

    Heres another advice

    GET INSURANCE

  • +8 votes

    OP, imagine you're waiting at the Give Way wanting to go from left to right in your diagram.

    If an infinite (or just a large) number of cars flowed through your pink line without indicating and 'randomly' went right or left. What would you do? Chance it and go when you think it is safe and cause an accident (as you did not give way)?

    A lot of the time, indicating doesn't do anything for you but is informative and useful for others. In your case, it would greatly improve traffic flow to allow people to go through the Give Way then it is safe.

    • +1 vote

      But then the flip side is also you should never trust indicators or lack of indicators…a catch 22.

      • +3 votes

        But then the flip side is also you should never trust indicators or lack of indicators…

        Of course, but indicators go some way in helping your decision making. In my scenario I'd keep waiting at the Give Way if a car went up the 'pink line' without indicators.

        If a car on the pink line was indicating left, I'd consider proceeding if I was satisfied that the car was definitely turning left.

        Safety first in any case.

    •  

      "If an infinite (or just a large) number of cars flowed through your pink line without indicating and 'randomly' went right or left. What would you do? Chance it and go when you think it is safe and cause an accident (as you did not give way)?"

      Car's turning left are required to indicate because they are turning off the main road. Cars not indicating are continuing continuing along the main road (albeit around a bend) like any other road.

  • +6 votes

    Hey OP, after you indicate at that intersection, go home and buy some comprehensive insurance - it is worth every dollar.

  • +9 votes

    Always indicate . Even if you think no one else is around. Always indicate.

  • +38 votes

    The Indicators are NOT FOR YOU, you can't see them.

    They are for OTHER cars and drivers to see your intention to turn

    Do it out of habit, it's a good habit to have.

    • +6 votes

      Yes good habit.

      Occasionally I’ll catch myself indicting where I don’t need to, like turning off my parents driveway onto the grass to park. But I’d rather do it instinctively more than necessary than not do it and end up having a crash.

    • +1 vote

      What habit?

      I eat cheeseburgers in one hand, and browse OzBargain in the other.

      I steer with my knees!

    •  

      Totally agree cwongtech, It doesn't take too much effort to let everyone else know your intentions. If I had my way I would make using a indicator the law in the shopping centre carpark.This would stop so many prangs. How many times do you see idiots barrelling around the car park like their on a go-cart track and then pulling into a space at the last possible moment, with no indication, so no one else can get it.

    • -2 votes

      If you are driving on a windy mountain road do you indicate left/right every time you round a bend? Why would you do it in a city?

      • +1 vote

        Let's see. Why would people choose to use their indicators more in the city than on a windy mountain road…

        Windy mountain highway;

        Not a lot of traffic
        Not a lot of intersections
        Usually single lane each way
        Most of the time, pretty quite
        No one is in a rush
        Not a lot of confusing signs
        "Wow. Only saw one cop car today"

        Inner city roads;

        Lots of other road users
        Lots of intersections
        Multiple lanes
        Converging lanes
        Diverging lanes
        Traffic islands with parking
        Busy, like sometimes "gridlocked" busy
        Driveways, driveways everywhere
        Everyone is in a rush
        Lots of idiot cyclists (Both bicycle and motorcycle)
        Lots of idiot drivers (Both car and truck)
        Signs. Everywhere. Signs for parking. Signs for speed. Signs for turning. Markings on the road. Lines, arrows, lights, hook turns, partial restrictions.
        "Holy crap, was that like the 5th cop car we've seen since leaving home?"

        All of that and the fact that OP said "despite the road ending" and offered a drawing where they did does not show a continuation of their lane. "Road ending" and "no continuation lines in drawing" is probably the biggest reasons people use their indicators in the city and not on 75km/h bends on country roads…

  •  

    https://i.imgur.com/Fg2xKVm.png

    The other vehicles have to give way regards if you indicate or not.

  • +2 votes

    Real life intersection.
    Brent St
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/g3YRot7wPPrL8Jo8A

    •  

      how did you figure out where it was just biased on that hand drawn diagram?

    •  

      in this scenario, you can turn let or veer right. I would Indicate myself… better to be safe

  • +5 votes

    You are overthinking things OP, having right of way does not impact whether or not you need to indicate.
    You turned right from one street into another, therefore you needed to use your right indicator. Simple :)

    • +2 votes

      This.

      The question touches on a couple of different things…

      • Who gives way: If you're traveling along the path you've indicated, you can expect cars coming from either of the other two directions to give way to you.
      • Road continuity: If the road markings indicate that the T intersection is actually a bend in one road, and a side street intersecting in a way that looks like a 'T' like this, then you wouldn't be expected to indicate. Your mspaint doesn't indicate show any markings showing a bend in the direction that you were going, so you're technically still making a left hand turn, not following a bend in the road. To me, this means that you need to indicate.
      • Courtesy/Common Sense: The guys coming from the left are gonna appreciate a signal from cars actually exiting to the left and not continuing through.
  • +3 votes

    Of you're on your Ps it will probably be hard to indicate when you're hanging it sideways around the corner whilst eating macas.

  •  

    Do what many drivers do nowadays, indicate 1/2 way through the turn, other road users should know what you are thinking.

  • +24 votes

    Christ, someone needs to hand their licence back in…

    Aust. Road Rule 354 says:

    (1) A Provisional Plate driver only need indicate their direction if they have time to do so between updating their Instagram and their Snapchat followers.
    (a) Unless the provisional driver is driving a BMW, then they are exempt from this rule.

  • +2 votes

    Theres an intersection like this near where I live. Honestly sometimes I indicate, sometimes I don't.

  • +5 votes

    Looking at your diagram you have 3 options.
    1. Go straight ahead and mount the gutter.
    2. Turn Left.
    3 Turn Right.

    So I don't understand the confusion, if you are going right then indicate so, that way everyone else on the road knows what you are doing.

  • +2 votes

    despite the road ending

    This should be your answer. If one road ends, simple inference is that you are entering another road.

    Which way are you intending to travel once on the new road?

    •  

      As others have said, if he drives a BMW (bonus points for M3 models) the rules are different.

    • +2 votes

      The amount of people on this forum who are wrong is staggering. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO INDICATE.

      "You must indicate to let others know what you plan to do … before you turn left or right, or change lanes."

      You are not turning or changing lanes, you are continuing, and thus DO NOT NEED TO INDICATE.

      This RMS diagram (https://imgur.com/ALXzesm) clearly shows a T intersection where the continuing road goes around a corner.

      There is no requirement for Car A on the "continuing road" to indicate. Even RMS shows the car as NOT INDICATING.

      https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/int...

      About time we introduced retesting (at say 45 years of age) as there are clearly a majority who don't understand the rule(s).

      • +1 vote

        I looked at the the hand drawn diagram and based the comment of OPs comment. I don't know what you're looking at and you may be correct.

        OP clearly stated

        despite the road ending

        Therefore, your rant re…

        You are not turning or changing lanes, you are continuing, and thus DO NOT NEED TO INDICATE.

        … is clearly misdirected.

      • +1 vote

        The amount of people on this forum who are wrong is staggering.

        So you thought you would throw your hat in the ring and be wrong with the rest of them… good choice.

        This RMS diagram

        is irrelevant, because it's not the same as OP's drawing. (see what @tshow says above, re: road ending)

        You are not turning

        This is exactly what OP is doing in that drawing.

        Car A on the "continuing road"

        In OP's drawing, the road is "ending" as there are no markings to indicate that the road is continuing. So, until OP gives us a location or a Google Maps link, we don't really know "who" is right, but based on the (albeit very poorly done) drawing, you are in the wrong.

        This is an example based on OP's drawing. Notice the lack of any arrows or lane marking lines? Gilba street ends here. (This is related to OP's drawing.)

        This is an example of your "diagram". Notice the broken lines indicating the continuation of Boronia Ave into Kent St. (This is NOT related to OP's drawing.)

        Time to resit your driving test…

  • +3 votes

    You don't need to indicate, but you should anyway. It's a good habit

  • -2 votes

    As a P plater, for safety sake, please check your blinker fluid levels before you venture onto the road.
    If you have a BMW, the blinker fluid filler can be hard to find and you may need road-side assistance to locate it.

  • +7 votes

    Did not look at the diagram, because it doesn't matter.

    Always indicate, whether you have to or not. Because you should!

    Doesn't matter if you are at a roundabout in the middle of Sydney or a desert town somewhere with a population of 1 stoned wombat, always indicate!

    Doesn't matter if you have right of way or not, or think you have right of way or not, always indicate.

    It's like the ultimate Ozbargain driving tip; it's free, and it reduces possibility of accidents, saves lives.

    They way most drivers are hoarding their blinkers, you'd think we were charged a dollar each time we used it.

    While we are on the topic, when indicating to merge into another lane, do give 2-3 seconds of headsup before merging.

    Flashing the blinker for half a nanosecond and cutting into the lane makes you almost as bad as the people who change lanes without indicating, or looking at blind spots.

    TL;DR - Develop the habit of always indicating, whether you have to or not.

    PS - Not sure if I mentioned this: ALWAYS INDICATE!

  • +3 votes

    nope dont need to indicate
    infact why are u turning at all?
    place it on cruise control and let the car drive itself

  • -1 vote

    should we revoke his P plate? this is basic common sense!

  • +4 votes

    Hi! I saw your drawing and immediately thought of this street nearish to me.

    (link below, street view from google, plus the actual map of the road)

    https://imgur.com/a/itM9tji

    almost identical to your drawing where the road is stopped by two give way signs, however the only difference is the markings on the ground, even though the street looks like a T junction and you are turning right, the road markings show that it considers it ONE road, if there are markings like this on the ground I wouldn't indicate, otherwise I would imagine you have to.