Dodgy Uncle Spent My Inheritance

In her Will, my grandmother stated that me and my brother would be left any cash that was in her account.

During the 3 years she was in car, my uncle was overseeing her affairs and drained over 100K in cash out of the account in cash withdrawals.

Money that also unaccounted for was her pension and rent from her flat that was let during her time in care.

My question is, is the bank likely to give me a copy of the statements given that the account was essentially left to me in her will?

I have excerpts of the Will and Death Certificate.

Putting this uncle in charge of the estate is literally Dracula in charge of a blood bank - he has a long history of theft and dishonesty but was the apple of his mother's eye.

Comments

  • +48

    Isn’t this simple that whatever is in the bank account after your grandma died is your entitlement in the will .

    Your grandma left uncle in charge of her affairs in care and there is nothing you can do about his spending during that period .

    • +6

      you may well be right. The only thing is that he was supposed to 'manage her affairs' - ie pay her ongoing care costs etc….overseas trips and propping up his own lifestyle wouldnt be expected to come out of this money.

      • +10

        If uncle scumbag was given legal guardianship or POA there 'may' be a clause in there somewhere that he has to act in your grandmothers best interests. Have your solicitor check the paperwork. Regardless it looks like he's pinched it and spent it so there would be nothing left for you and your bro anyway. Not fair, but not uncommon either.

        edit: If he was pinching her pension then you might want to call crimestoppers. :)

        • +3

          If uncle scumbag was given legal guardianship or POA there 'may' be a clause in there somewhere that he has to act in your grandmothers best interests.

          There should be. I believe it's a standard clause.

          Have your solicitor check the paperwork.

          This.

          Regardless it looks like he's pinched it and spent it so there would be nothing left for you and your bro anyway. Not fair, but not uncommon either.

          There wouldn't, but if he didn't act in your grandmother's best interest (I believe - IANAL) there should be grounds to reclaim the money he "stole". Your problem will then be what nikey2k37 said: if he's got nothing, you won't be getting much even if you're successful.

      • You can take him to court if he was power of attorney. but you find unless his rich you luck if you get cent and spent what left in grandma will. https://www.qld.gov.au/law/legal-mediation-and-justice-of-th…

  • +9

    Could be a messy legal case coming up. Key issues will be what assets were declared at the time of obtaining probate and what the will stated as to the distribution of the assets

      • +22

        So we’re less dodgy than lawyers? 😂

        • +4

          OzBargain lawyers dont cost anything

          • +5

            @AbsX: And they're also not going to do anything for the OP either, haha.

            • @tallkid123: Lmao i know, they get what they pay for

        • We've come to a decision. It's time to involve the bikies.

      • +5

        Oh no… one of these guys.

      • You are right you will be left with a giant legal bill esp if your uncle has no significant assets

      • +6

        That's the end of the thread then. You've got sweet f-all chance of resolving this messy legal matter without getting a lawyer involved.

      • Say bye-bye to the money then.

  • Sorry to hear about this. I'm going through an deceased estate issue at the moment myself.
    I'm offering my opinion only, and I have no legal training.

    If the uncle was given power of attourney before draining the funds I don't think much can be done about money before her passing. If the cash cannot be attributed to anything that was deemed part of her estate at the time of death - (i.e if he bought a car and registered it in her name, then it could still be considered part of the estate you can claim against, but if he bought it for himself then probably not) If he did it without the consent of his mother then I think he could be charged with something criminal.

    If there is still money in the bank accounts at the time of her death (for which you are entitled) and he is the executor of the estate then he should give you your portion of the funds at the time of her death (your portion of the estate). If he doesn't follow through with the instructions of the will then you will need to challenge the will (probate), followed by mediation and then possibly court if he still doesn't give you your entitlements.

    • +2

      There was ZERO in her account at the time of death - in fact she died several thousand in debt because he stopped paying her outgoings.

      It was an old fashioned passbook account so there will be no detailed statements other than cash in and out.

      I am not expecting to recoup the money, i'd just like to see the statements as this family member is claiming no wrong doing but will not hand over the passbook for the account.

      • +1

        A passbook does not have statements. The passbook is the statement in itself.

      • +5

        i am just done with a deceased estate issue at the moment myself. we same problem my aunt stole 800,000 in Cash over 3 years well my Nan was in Care. she change own ship of family home we went to court house was wroth and sold for 1.5 million after all cost 5 kids got 55,000 grand each Lawyer win.

        • -1

          That's shocking but thats $55g you wouldnt have had

        • +2

          So $1,225,000‬ for lawyer fees?

          • @pinkybrain: This is how most legal cases end. Lawyers win. If you lose, you lose big time. If you win, you go close to breaking even.

  • +9

    Unless you can prove that your Uncle dishonestly misappropriated money and you have deep pockets to hire a Lawyer to fight the case in the courts for you I don't think you have a snowflakes chance in hell of seeing any of the money.

    I doubt if the bank will give you a copy of any statements if you aren't a signatory to the account or an executor of the estate due to privacy reasons.

    • +1

      you're probably right.

      • +18

        Forget the money, remember your grannie for the nice times.

        Scum always floats to the surface in stagnate water.

        • +2

          We want to believe this, but in reality scum float through life, and rarely get karma checked. His uncle will be $100k better off and won't care about a thing

          Just know inheritance money never was yours, so you have lost nothing.

          No one in this life has your best interests at heart. Look after yourself and those you love. The rest cast by the wayside

  • +1

    Yes I'm sorry I don't think you'll be able to get any records unless he shares them himself.

  • +2

    If your uncle was the one in charge and was the executor of her estate then there isn't much you can do, you could challenge it legally but they would end up just pointing out that 0 is a number and the time of her death means when she died. If he took the money after she had passed you might have a case.
    So sorry but it really sounds like a dead end. You might as well let it go and don't let your uncle have anything to do with your parents assets when they are older.

    Maybe your grandmother was trying to give your uncle one last chance to redeem himself if he is how you say he is.
    If so he failed, you sound like a better more honest person and you should hang onto that.

    • +2

      No i genuinely think that my grandmother wanted me (shared with my brother) to have this money - she left a 500K apartment to my uncle (shared with my dad) so he was already well looked after.

      I would have thought to be en executor came with some responsibility to oversee the state in the best interest of the beneficiaries.

      I am not losing sleep over the money (or lack of) but would as a matter of principle like to see just how quickly he burned through the 100K+.

      • +17

        I am not losing sleep over the money …

        That maybe so, but note that: Holding a grudge is like drinking poison and waiting for the other person to die.

        • +3

          so simple yet so wise…

        • +1

          Resolving a grudge is like force feeding poison to that person and waiting for them to die. :3

          Jk. Don't kill them plz.

      • +2

        Oh no you have every right to be angry, but what I am saying is legally you don't have a case it seems but morally you are totally in the right and when I say your grandmother was giving him a chance to do the right thing, I meant by you and your brother and she most likely thought your uncle would do the right thing as silly as it sounds. Your grandmother sounds like she was a kind soul and kind souls give more than second chances.

        The principle is totally correct but the world sucks sometimes and I hope things come back to you in another way sometimes life is weird like that as well. 100k might fall into your lap in some odd way you are not expecting in the future. I am sorry if this sounds silly I am trying to find the bright side for you. All I can say is your uncle seems like a real bit of work and I hope things get better for you. :)

      • There is a lot of bad advice floating around here. This is not legal advice, just my opinion. If he was in charge of her bank account, he cannot use the money in the account for his own personal gain. He may or may not have. Doesnt seem like you know for sure. But if he did, then it is generally recoverable.

        If she has left him an apartment, this is something to consider in terms of recovering any of the money in the account. I would speak to a lawyer asap instead of taking advice from people on here lol.

  • +1

    Who's idea was it to give an Uncle with a history of theft and dishonesty complete power over her financial affairs? Seems like a silly thing to do. Nothing you can do about it now except pressure him and his family to retrieve some of the money he inevitably has stashed away.

    • +4

      Families do stupid things. We won't be the first family to be divided over a poorly thought out Will.

      • -2

        But this could've been avoided somewhat if you or whoever appointed him thought it out beforehand. You don't give Dracula control of the bloodbank, as you said. You should've seen it coming.

        • +20

          I don't think the OP had a say in it dude. :)

  • +3

    If your uncle had a financial Power of Attorney over her assets prior to her death then you would need to see what the document gave him the authority to act on.
    Given she was in care for 3 years then it is quite possible the entire $100k was spent on her care.
    If he spent funds outside of the PA then you could probably raise a legal case against him.
    What did the will say insofar as distribution of the assets the Estate?
    The bank is not obliged to give you copies of her statement

    • The will simply said that her apartment was left to her sons and her savings were left to her grandkids.

      She had a generous war pension and rent from a beachside apartment coming in - we have done the sums and there is conservatively 40K that is unaccounted for - minimum.

      We also believe that the initial balance may have been more than 100K and this is the amount that Uncle Dodgy nominated - so we'd like that confirmed.

      • +4

        So its all hearsay, as you don't know if she had $100k, maybe she had $20k? You're just guessing.

        As Ocker said, people fail to account for the cost of having someone in care. There is a large cost to have someone is care. Its not like she would have been banking her pension and rent money, living in care isn't free.

        Most care/respite places costs at minimum what the pension provides and most are way above this, requiring a top up each week to stay there. Some also require a 'cash' deposit to enter care. Its not uncommon for $100k deposit being required on entering a care place.

        Then you have all the add ons, pharmacy bills, mobility equipment, therapist of various things, doctors bills, etc plus personal items etc.

        As she had rent coming in, per pension most likely was reduced, so its highly likely that 'most' of the money was spent on her care.

        Had to visited her during her care? Was it a nice place?

          • +9

            @tony8028: I ready your post, no such thing was said, you said

            my uncle was overseeing her affairs and drained over 100K in cash out of the account in cash withdrawals.

            You also said above

            We also believe that the initial balance may have been more than 100K

            So your BELIEVED there was $100k, but you don't really know. So it could have been $20k for all you know.

            Until you can confirm the balance, its all hearsay.

  • +1

    What are your Dad’s thought on the matter?

    • +4

      he says there is no doubt that we've been duped but he won't do anything about it as all he is interested in is a quick sale of the apartment so he can cash in.

      you really see true colors when money is involved.

      • +1

        Yep, that’s a real shame. Hopefully your Dad will share his half of the house with you.

        • +5

          hahaha! Thanks I needed a laugh :)

          • @tony8028: Where is the deposit for the home? If she still had property ect the tax payer did not foot it, get dad to help you ask about it.

            If dad won't help you need to get him out your life.

      • +8

        Where is this apartment at? I am interested in buying…

  • +3

    I had an enduring power of attorney for my mother for several years.

    I was told by several professionals (lawyers, financial advisers etc) that her money could be spent only for her benefit, although it seemed that it was largely up to my discretion as to how to interpret this.

    I was very conservative and stuck to expenditure that was really directly related to her (pharmacy bills, renting mobility equipment, occasional outings), but I am sure that many people would push it far further.

    • yes totally up to interpretation.

      • +3

        I think it would be hard to interpret an overseas trip by OP's uncle as being for the grandmother's benefit?

        • +5

          Tell that to the politicians on their "study tours"!

  • +10

    It might be worth spending a little bit of money chatting to an attorney that specialises in wills. They should be able to give you a good idea on what is, and isn’t legal, in this case. I’m not a lawyer but if he has done the dodgy you might be able to get a lien over the flat to try to recover the money. The threat of doing that, and going to the cops, might be enough to get some of the money back. If nothing else the chat might make the whole thing clear in your mind.

    • +1

      i think this is good sensible advice. Thank you

  • +4

    Not a lawyer but there is probably a good shot at:

    In NSW, eligible persons can Contest a Will and make what is called a Family Provision claim if they have been left without adequate provision from a deceased estate. A claim for misappropriating could probably be made at the same time.

    This situation will almost certainly require legal action or threat of legal action to make any progress. Just starting legal action will freeze the estate and might cause all parties to agree to a settlement of some kind.

    If you want to make sure your uncle gets as little as possible while taking no financial risk yourself you could consider legal funding that will take a significant portion of anything you gain but negate any financial risk for yourself, and realistically wipe out most of the estate in legal fees leaving your uncle next to nothing.

    • Makes sense. since the OP is getting nothing as it stands, then contesting the will means the costs of contesting (Lawyers fees etc) come out of the estate, so often go away payments are made to save this cost, at least that way the OP gets something and uncle doesnt get away scot free.

      • +2

        uncle doesnt get away scot free

        Nor perhaps his dad.

    • +1

      Another option is to apply for the Public Trustee to take over management of the estate. Probably have a good chance of making this happen as there is a conflict of interest for the uncle and an accusation of misappropriating funds. You will have a much better chance of settling any dispute with the Public Trustee as trustee as opposed to your uncle.

    • +2

      Not a lawyer

      Then don’t give legal advice. Any lawyer worth their salt would tell you that there is no guarantee legal costs are paid from the estate. If fact, if OP loses completely, he could face paying his uncle’s legal costs as well as his own.

      • Didn't give legal advice, just options.

        Also, I mention specifically financial risk of taking the legal route. Please actually read the comments.

        • You literally say:

          while taking no financial risk yourself

          and

          negate any financial risk for yourself

          which are patently untrue given a court can make a costs order against OP.

          • @canyoudoitcheaper: Please actually read the comment. That was in direct reference to obtaining legal funding who will pay the costs if you lose. This was specifically mentioned BECAUSE of the significant financial risk of taking legal action.

            PS. Taking random words out of a sentence changes its meaning.

  • +25

    I would be pissed off too if you left my Mother in a car for three years.

    • haha nice one :)

    • if you're so close to your mother why wouldn't you notice?

  • Hope for Karma! My sister used her drunkard to steal. Now she got a fat ass and a sulk.

    • You must be foreign, no aussie uses the word drunkard….. respect

      • +8

        We call them legends.

        • +1

          Thanks for the update, yes he is a true legend in her little world, drunk every night and yelling at the other residents in the street.
          He got a huge pension and no kids so alcohol is his world. Can't take him anywhere as he is lost inside his would of booze. No air travel as no air hostess would put up with him. What has he achieved? He converted a Muslim to become a luxury wine connoisseur and now the 2 fight about who pays the bill. He only shops at luxury retailers but has no friends at all to show what he got. He can afford lawyers to starve off the abuse suits. What a life? After staying with them before mum died and seeing them now I decided to quit all alcohol consumption. Never miss it, in hindsight regret the lost brain cells due to younger years keeping up with mates.

    • +1

      i tend to agree with you. I am a great believer in what goes around comes around.

  • IF there is now no money left (as uncle spent it all) I don't think there is much chance of recouping it. Assume you would need to take legal route and you will need to way up the cost of that to any return of those funds.

    • +4

      OP is entitled to half of what is the account when she passed as per the will, not what was in the account 2 or 3 or 5 years earlier.

      • +3

        Correct. So suck it up and just take what is left.

        • +1

          there's nothing left - zero. I have conceded we wont get any money, we are really just curious to see how quickly he burned through the cash.

          • +1

            @tony8028: Care isn't cheap, before you lawyer up, so see how much the place she was staying in was costing and do the figures.

  • +2

    Putting this uncle in charge of the estate is literally Dracula in charge of a blood bank

    Honestly the 'uncle' should have been getting the estate not you as he is her son, you are a grandchild. The flow of estates is normally from parent to children, not skipping the direct children and going to the grand children.

    While she might have said she is leaving you money, you can't assume that $100k is yours.

    Money that also unaccounted for was her pension and rent from her flat that was let during her time in care.

    She might not have been getting a pension if she had 'assets' too great while in care ie her flat and rental income. Care places will normally consume 100% of a persons pension and then some. Most nice places require a top up the funds waay above what the pension income provides. Some places also require a 'cash' deposit to enter care. Its not uncommon for $100k deposit being required on entering a care place.

    She needed care, the funds may have been all used up providing this. EVen faster if she wasn't getting a pension or getting a reduce pension from having a 'rental' income.

    • -8

      wow, you really dont have a clue do you? I cant even answer that as you are wrong on so many points.

      • +6

        His redundant use of single quotation marks is also irritating.

      • +7

        Oh so just like the OP then, you think care is free?

        go look at retirement homes and find out the real costs, including entry deposits. You might learn something.

        go read about pensions, and means testing. You might learn something.

        As for entitled grand children line, the OP is entitled to share the money left when she passed as per the will, not what was in the account 3 or 5 years ago. I also hope your parents skip you and leave their estate to the grand children. As you seem pretty cool with that too.

        • There are tons of "no deposit" pay as you go nursing homes out there - and she was in one of them.

          • +4

            @tony8028: cool, but care still isnt 'free'.

          • @tony8028: I've never heard of them where I live, that's new information.

            • @Slippery Fish: There is definitely the option of "no deposit" pay as you go in care homes.
              Nursing homes, both 'for profit' and 'not for profit', offer three methods of payment for accommodation. (Please note; this is not discussing care charges or government charges.)
              I have been involved in this process twice in the last 3 years for family members.
              Accommodation can be paid fully up front. This is known as a RAD payment (Refundable Accommodation Deposit - repayable in full to the estate, or to the person if they leave the facility).
              or
              You can pay a daily fee for accommodation (DAP - Daily Accommodation Payment). This requires no upfront fee.
              or
              You can pay a mix of both, that is a partial up front fee and a daily accommodation fee, pro-rata based on how much you paid in the lump sum. This is for those who don't have sufficient funds to pay the full amount upfront or wish to maintain financial reserves.

          • @tony8028: You might be able to ask the care home how bills were paid and how much it might have cost over 3 years? If you can't see the padsbook at least you can see some outgoings and extrapolate.

  • +4

    No wonder why she passed away; living in a car for 3 years isn't an ideal living situation.

    • +4

      Nice joke, unfortunately someone else beat you to it.

  • +6

    Spending $34k per year in care sounds reasonable.

    • +2

      yes it does however there is more missing than just this. Rental income from her unit plus her pension.

      If everything was above board Uncle Dodgy would be more than happy to hand over the bank statements to us - but he isnt.

    • $34k per year would cover care and government charges OR if no upfront accommodation fees were paid, the daily accommodation charges. It would not cover accommodation and care charges, from my family's experience.

  • +1

    Realistically, there's not much you're going to be able to do here.

    Here's the ONLY way you're going to recoup any money, noting that there is every chance you'll end up WORSE than where you are now:
    * Lawyer up
    * Attempt to get relevant paperwork from your uncle via your lawyer
    * Likely will be unsuccessful, so then it's off to court to get a ruling for this paperwork to get handed over
    * Assuming you get this ruling, go through all the paperwork and attempt to demonstrate that the uncle was spending money in some way over and above what was agreed between him and your grandmother (noting that this may be VERY different from what you consider to be the costs of "basic care")
    * Back to court to sue your uncle for whatever amount you've determined is appropriate from the previous step
    * Be prepared for significant argument and for the court to reduce your claim even if you believe your claim is "reasonable"
    * Assuming the court finds in your favour, hope the uncle actually has the cash to pay up, is willing to pay up and you're not chasing him for the cash for years down the road
    * Pay all legal fees for the above action, noting that there is every chance the proceeds from the above action will be zero

    I know it sucks, but you're probably not going to get much joy here.

    • i wouldnt take it that far - its not enough money to warrant the time or expense in fighting it.

      If we were taking hundreds if thousands maybe.

      Its more of a principle thing at this point.

      • +2

        If it's about the principle, something along the lines of having this out with your uncle and other relevant family members will be the way to go. If old mate is what you say he is, you'll lose nothing by cutting this cancer out of your life.

        its not enough money to warrant the time or expense in fighting it

        Right answer.

  • +1

    See a solicitor that specialises in wills and estates. Most offer a free consultation.
    At least you can evaluate your options from the legal perspective.
    Also, I believe, a solicitor can access bank statements. Since your grandmother was also
    receiving rental income, possibly tax records as well.
    You can see several solicitors for a range of legal options.

    • The rent for the apartment was paid directly into Uncle Dodgy's account or possibly cash in hand.

      • +4

        more guesses from you then, so just guessing as you don't know, so stop painting a picture that isn't true. Stick to the facts.

        You don't know where the rental incoming went, so stop spreading FUD and trying to paint a picture to please you.

  • +2

    How much were you and your brother hoping to inherit? $50k each? For that amount, I wouldn't bother getting lawyers involved.

    • you're right - we'd be pissing it up against a wall there. Its more of a principle thing for us really as we know funds have been misappropriated

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