https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/12524183691705016…
Trump is signing executive order to suspend immigration to US..I'm not sure it's large scale implications…open for discussion..
Trump Suspends Immigration Temporarily
pyramid on 21/04/2020 - 13:04
Last edited 21/04/2020 - 13:05
Last edited 21/04/2020 - 13:05
Comments
The lockdowns are hurting businesses and their workers. 41000 deaths out of 328m people is 0.000125%. A national wide lockdown isn’t justifiable based on those numbers.
So you want to up that numbers?
@Fredfloresjr: 22m Americans are unemployed. These people want to work but can't. The lockdowns are preventing them from doing that.
So you would have no problem if this meant your grandparents or parents were part of that total? You do realise they are only at that numbers because of the lockdown, what would you consider to be acceptable?
@try2bhelpful: Australians can still go to work. Americans are protected by the 14th Amendment which means that they should be allowed to do the same.
@whooah1979: Actually, there are a lot of Australians who can’t still go to work, their places of work are shutdown. Also, we have a much smaller death toll than America does. The virus doesn’t give a damn which amendment you might want to quote, it just kills people. The idea is to try to minimise that so it isn’t millions.
Frankly if they weren’t risking other people’s lives I would have no problem with them risking their own. Maybe they could sequester a few towns, and factories, and move the people who feel like that there, with any medical personnel who might be crazy enough to go there as well. We can see how many are left, after a couple of months.
Now please answer my question, are you OK with this if the dead includes your grandparents, or parents? Because most of the dead would have grieving families and they don’t see the victims as statistics.
@try2bhelpful: We work in an industry that is associated with more than 1m deaths and 20m injuries globally every year. We're no happy that these things happen but it is risk that we accept.
@try2bhelpful: The Constitution doesn't change because there is a pandemic, war or any other global crises.
@whooah1979: You do understand what an “amendment” actually means and in times of national emergency, for example wars, the freedoms of American citizens have been curtailed.
The industry you work in might be associated with those sort of deaths but, presumably, the people who enter into them do so willingly and accept the risks. As I have indicated these people aren’t just risking their own lives they are risking others, e.g. medical personnel. If these people waived the right to being treated for COVID-19 infections, and isolated themselves from the rest of the community, then go for it. Even in the land of the 2nd amendment there are places the average person can’t take a gun, e.g. if they are a prisoner incarcerated in jail. The Government makes exceptions for the good of the majority.
Still haven’t answered my question.
@try2bhelpful: The leading cause of death for older people are illnesses. We wouldn’t be happy if our older family members succumbed to an illness or disease like this one. However, we accept that that is inevitable.
@whooah1979: Well life is a fatal sexually transmitted disease so dying is inevitable, but not dying like this. Where families can’t offer comfort, to tens of thousands, because they are afraid of catching the illness themselves. I’ve watched “24 hours in ER” and what I haven’t seen is mass numbers of people with acute illnesses, being unable to be treated, because there just isn’t enough equipment/personnel to go around. It would be very interesting to see the show, as it is unfolding right now but, I suspect, we will never see it because it would be too traumatic. So, rather than backing off and trying to manage this illness in a controlled manner you are OK with letting your parents, or Grandparents, die in this manner. Just another statistic to add to the rest. Another temporary grave because they can’t bury the dead fast enough.
Even Boris Johnson backed away from the “herd immunity” option as having too high a cost. It will be interesting to see how this plays out in the land of many rights and too few responsibilities. As I’ve said, as long as they keep the innocent out of the way then they can go for it all they like. It will, certainly, provide lessons in controlling a Pandemic for future reference. You would think the lessons learnt in China and Europe, before lockdown, might be enough? Sounds like a slight tweak is needed to the saying: it should now read “Give me Liberty, and give me death”.
@try2bhelpful: Millions of Americans are out of a job. Many of them live pay cheque to pay cheque. They won't be able to buy food or pay their bills. Many have already been evicted from their homes. Allowing them to work reduces that risk.
Their Constitution allows for equal rights no matter who they are. It takes two thirds majority vote in both House and the Senate or two thirds of the State legislatures to change.
@whooah1979: It is inevitable that your family will die in the circumstances I have described? I wonder what they think about your decision? Well, it may well be if we don’t look at ameliorating the situation. I’m not as prepared to just write off a section of humanity like that; I, also, object to writing off the medical personnel that are dying due to this as well. As I’ve said, several times, if we can isolate these people from the rest of society, and health care workers are willing to volunteer to look after them, then have at it. If they walk amongst us then not so much. Given the way some of the Governors are behaving we may see this experiment play out anyway; It will be fascinating to watch, if nothing else. So, what is your top end on the death toll before you start feeling disquiet?
@try2bhelpful: Our company is open for business during the NSW lockdown. All the workers are going to work with the full support of their families.
The US should make the lockdown voluntary. People that wants to stay home can and those that can't afford to should be given the opportunity to go to work and provide for their families.
@whooah1979: I would, suspect, there are a few families not, entirely, on board; but we have an infection rate that is very low - due mainly to a bunch of our people following our social isolation guidelines. America is not in that position; their infection rate is high and increasing. However, fair enough, if they choose that path they aren’t allowed access to support from any health professional. If they get themselves infected they deal with it themselves and don’t put other people’s lives at risk.Are you happy with that as well? So their families can deal with a dying loved one, on their own. I’m sure the families will think that is worth the minimum wage check they will be bringing home.
@try2bhelpful: Health care workers are not volunteering. They are getting paid. It is quite selfish to think that people who are wanting to work to put food on their table and not go into financial distress should not do so because it may affect some other person’s family members. The ones having an issue with people wanting to work, that is the media and government personnel, still have jobs.
Let the virus play out as nature intended and let the fittest survive.
@try2bhelpful: America doesn't give a shit about its constitution - its a myth it trots out when it feels the need.
There are 800k+ confirmed cases; this excludes those with asymptomatic cases and those that have milder cases as they can't even afford to test those. They aren't even testing that many people and only 1-2% of the entire population has been tested.
The reality is 47k dead > 3% of 850k cases. 47k dead whilst only 83k recovered of a total of 850k+ confirmed cases. Until they all recover, the true death toll for the current cases in the US is unknown. That's assuming there will be no more new cases but we all know that there will be more. You'd have to be a genius incapable of logic to think otherwise.
Once this is all said and done, I would be very surprised if less than half a million die there. I wouldn't be surprised if a million die due to the rolling peaks that has been predicted. NY is only the 1st of many similar scenarios unfolding in the US.
@mychips: agreed - there are government forces at work there spreading it - the reasons are obvious.
Some of the dumbasses are wearing PPE while protesting too.
Dude, are you referring to the yellow vest movement or something else?
Nah, referring to the Americans protesting against the lockdown due to the threat of covid19.
@Caped Baldy: OK I think I know the ones. It's not just those guys though, people are protesting all over, well starting to, and not any where near as many as there were before the virus lockdown conveniently took them off the streets. :)
It's great that the commenter is using one protestor as representative of the whole, most of the protests are saying they want the restrictions lifted, given the rational is to limit stress on hospitals and in USA and here there are no hospitals over capacity theres an argument for lifting the restrictions at least partially.
Hmmm, you might want to Google how the NY hospitals were coping with the number of patients and how they are only easing off now the restrictions are in place. If the disease gets a serious hold in the “red states” it is unlikely their hospitals will have the capacity to cope. America is still losing between 1500 to 2500 people, per day, and adding, roughly, 20,000 new cases, per day. The US currently has 45,000 dead and this is with restrictions in place. The main argument for not lifting restrictions, now, is to give the country a bit of breathing space to see if they can stabilise, a tad. The lead time, for any action to reaction, is considered as 14 days. In the last 14 days America more than doubled their infection rate and death toll. Last night America lost 2800 people, if NY is trending down then, elsewhere, must be trending upwards. It is very tempting to want to get back to normality, we all want to do that, but accelerating an out of control car is, rarely, the best way to stop it safely. However, do I think a number of US states will damn the torpedoes and carry on regardless; you betcha. I think we are going to get our case studies. Who knows, they might get away with it, if their disease rate is low enough, or there is a massive number of asymptomatic people who have recovered, however, the current statistics aren’t on their side.
Just wanting to point out the initial post I replied to was incorrect about their concerns claiming they thought covid19 was a hoax.
On New York, the Governor has recently said they don't need the hospital ship anymore and that although they didn't get the 40,000 ventilators they initially though they needed they are now sending some to other areas as they have an excess.
Across the US states and in Australia the severity of government restriction doesn’t correlate with a reduction in cases. A lot of restrictions that are being protested are just stupid, a husband fined for kissing his wife in the park, can’t buy seeds, or can’t use a motorboat but can use a non-motorboat? Some seem like something one person suggests in a meeting and no one has the stones to say “… and that will help how? Do you have some evidence to support this claim?”
Again the point of the restrictions was to ensure we didn’t spread the infection over time not to stop it all together. Currently in Australia we have several thousand ventilators and currently there are only 36 in use surly we can cope with a bit more freedom? Maybe let L platers learn to drive or allow 2 walks a day Victorian farmers might even be able to order ammo from Victorian gun stores instead of overwhelming NSW ones (a friend was on hold for over half an hour due to this the other day)? Most of the benefit is in increased hygiene, not arbitrary restrictions.
@jerrus: Asking for 40,000 ventilators was silly. Telling people to ignore COVid and go party was also silly. Oh NY, NY….
@jerrus: UPVoted.
"increased hygiene, not arbitrary restrictions."
Its actually very smart you mention this.
Initially Thailand had around 1,000 cases - Australia 5,000 cases.
So why did a poorer country perform better than a richer country?????
(even if you suggested there were 100% more cases in Thailand, it still beats Australia).The reason imho : Thailand did temperature checks and required people to use hand sanitiser before going into commercial buildings, banks, Malls, supermarkets, (anywhere and everywhere really) etc. This was done by security guards (who were already employed).
As the restrictions got tighter McDs and other places were wiping down tables after each customer (wasn't that hard actually) with alcohol cleaner.
I thought Thailand was extremely clever- keeping the economy going while beating the virus.
Most of the infections for Thailand came from mass gatherings, which really should of been banned in the first place.
(the Government knew this! - And yet it came from a Government owned sporting arena!).Australia was doing none of this (probably because we don't make anything anymore in this country - hence the shortage of hand sanitiser). People even in the Customs queues weren't being temperature tested, and when they finally were it was using an ear thermometer over and over again (Transmission anyone???!!!).
Taiwan the absolute gold standard with roughly 420 cases and 4 deaths, being right next to HK & China (lol @ China's 4,000 cases) didn't need to impose lock down! How come? Well the fact the Taiwanese Government bought a whole bunch of pure alcohol might give some clues. They also banned flights from Wuhan and then China.
We did not. We kept the flights going, so we did not anger our Chinese 'friends' (being the CCP).
Now our whole economy is in lock down.Look at Tiawan:
Schools, offices, restaurants and most entertainment facilities in Taiwan remain open. International tourists are gone, but locals do travel — at #a holiday weekend in early April, 1.5m descended on 11 of the country’s biggest resort areas#.
( https://www.ft.com/content/b59c238c-d004-44a2-bd9f-c5b1e7a5b… )
1,500,000 people!!!@Other: we are locked down because it suited many purposes - placing us into debt being the main one.
well he's got to find someone new to blame, been through a roulette of.. the democrats, the chinese, the russians, WHO, big companies not making stuff, democrat governors, back to chinese again, now immigrants.
and no how dare you imply i've done anything less than perfect, say it again and i'll walk out on my own press conference
Who was our PM when he also banned immigration.
Where was the outrage in Australia?
Yes certainly not the CCP fault (wet markets which enable SARS, hiding the truth about COVID (arresting the Dr who reported it), etc).
Yes it was not absolutely stupid for NY Dem Gov to ask for 40,000 ventilators.
Yes the WHO was 100% accurate - there is NO human to human transmission. Thank god!
Yes the Dems who called him racist when he imposed bans on flights to and from China.
l0l.
Good decision
Bit too late for that now, Donny - the horse has already bolted.
nope just in time…
winterElection is coming
Is there any other source than the twitter message?
Trump appears to send out twitter messages and then it may or may not eventuate.What does 'suspend immigration' actually mean?
No more brown people
Are you Trump's personal trainer? If so, you're doing a great job! :-P
Same thing Australia and NZ has done.
maybe its connected to injecting disinfectant?
Great decision because everyone who could afford to try and immigrate to the US still really want to go and join the world's no. 1 coronavirus hotspot right now as the country continues to tear itself apart internally /s
Trump is more damaging to the USA and the conservative movement long term than any of his supporters realise. They are completely blinded by greed and clinging onto power short term. Anybody that still possesses a brain that allows for critical thinking to occur (regardless of their political leanings) should quickly realise the man is actually a moron that is out of his depth and a pathological liar
They don't seem to have realised that yet.
Anyway, he is over there, we have our own politicians to worry about.I would argue that it's quite a clever strategy to prolong the pandemic in America. The banks, speculators, and large corporations will continue asking for "stimulus" and they will get it. Poor and average people will starve and go homeless and rack up huge debt while the banks profit and buy cheap property. It's GFC 2.0, baby!
It is also a pretty good way of losing a bunch of old people that are a drain on the economy. The neocons have already made comments that a lot of these people only had a few months more left so why cripple the economy saving them.
Seems like it doesn't matter what he does, people aren't going to be happy.
Prolong shutdown = want people to starve and be homeless
Open the economy = want people to die.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't
In America you don’t need COVID-19 to be starving and homeless; it is the way their economy is structured. If they, really, wanted to they could stop people from starving, and being homeless, whilst maintaining quarantine, but they won’t because it is against their ideology. Their system is fragile.
How can anyone be “happy” about the current situation, it is a nightmare either way but I’ve not seen many pandemics where the answer was to let a disease have free reign. This is why we have inoculations, rather than just let diseases progress naturally. Where we don’t have an inoculation we try to use quarantine procedures to reduce spreading.
Still, what does medicine and the scientists know.
Only a
Sithrepublican see things in absolutes
Hence the 'completely blinded by greed' part of my original post. Long term this kind of governance (or lack of proper governance) will lead to a very sick society, weaken the nation as a whole, and allow other countries (i.e. China and Russia) to more easily challenge and subvert US influence around the world
Trump is probably one of the greatest US presidents of all time 😀
Irony is strong with this one.
probablydefinitely 😀@nobro25: Better. For a start she wouldn’t have spent most of her administration destroying communication lines with various Governments around the world, belittling the role of the UN, making stupid comments like “this is a hoax to stop me being re-elected” and totally overheating the economy by the ludicrous interest rates. She would’ve listened to briefings and acted on the advice of experts. She actually had experience with dealing with the heads of foreign countries and understood the reason diplomacy is important. That the best situation is where people think they have a win/win, rather than someone has to lose. Maybe China might’ve been more open if they weren’t expecting the American leader to gloat over their misfortune. We can only surmise, we will never know. However, we do know what Donny has done.
@try2bhelpful: Wow.
Where did Trump gloat over China's misfortune?
Where did he say it is a hoax to stop me being re-elected?
@try2bhelpful: Well we can be certain that Crooked Hillary would be taking advantage of this crisis and giving contracts out to her special interest groups just like her fellow Democrat Gretchen Whitmer.
@try2bhelpful: " acted on the advice of experts"
The experts in the UK suggested Herd Immunity. Experts suggested that. It was only when the population rejected hundred of thousands dying did the UK change tact.
"totally overheating the economy by the ludicrous interest rates."
Yes because they weren't ludicrous during the whole of President Obama's and Janet yellen's time.
They really had to keep rates at 1% for 6 years? SHe couldn't increase them 0.25% in 6 years???Didn't the Fed actually increase them During Trumps term? Why?
"Maybe China might’ve been more open if they weren’t expecting the American leader to gloat over their misfortune"
Seriously, you really think the CCP gives a shit about that? The fact you actually think thats what the Chinese care about is literally mind blowing.
But perhaps you could comment on the fact that the Dems called the President racist for blocking flights to and from China?
Would Hillary of blocked the flights or would she of been to scared to be called racist?But "We can only surmise, we will never know."
@nobro25: I think we'd be in WW3 with Russia over Syria…
She was demanding a 'no fly zone' (aerial hot war with Russia)
@try2bhelpful: Uranium One was weird.
So was the fact that Australia dumped money into her aid foundation when we were actually closer and had more history and relationship with the nations the funds were going to. What was even weirder was how fast it stopped when she lost the election.
Wish him another 4 years. Cannot wait.
Yeah, so much winning. Well, he’s certainly topping the worldometers chart, at the moment, and he appears to be aiming to increase that lead. Make American Graves Again. There is a morbid part of me that hopes he does win; that thinks America deserves to be well, and truly, punished for choosing so poorly. Let’s see how bright they are.
@try2bhelpful: White-collar criminal prosecutions have hit a 33-year low. The Justice Department defends state laws that could kick thousands off the voting rolls. The National Labor Relations Board is now more sympathetic to employers than unions. And military spending is on track to reach the same levels as during the height of the Iraq War.
Big boosts to fossil fuel production have come at the expense of an unprecedented deterioration in air quality. Tens of thousands of people have lost health insurance by administrative fiat, and millions are in the process of losing their nutritional assistance through the same mechanism.
Tax changes were Trump’s biggest legislative accomplishment, creating a huge windfall for wealthy shareholders and small gains for the middle class — with revenue losses much larger than initially forecast.
Making America great one rich person at a time.
@funnysht: Yet he remains popular with blue colour workers and rednecks - you do wonder, don’t you? These people buying the lie and lining up to be canon fodder. Fortunately they are far away from me.
If you haven’t read them, already, I recommend you read “Brave New World” - Aldous Huxley and “1984” - George Orwell. Very prescient books. The film “Idiocracy” might help as well.
I think you meant to say “Make America Greedy Again”.
@try2bhelpful: I have read 1984 during school, and i can see you your point. Blue collar workers/rednecks are won over with immigration policy and typical views of migrants taking jobs, whilst the rich just laugh behind their backs getting rich. Has trump done a lot for big business? Admittingly yes. Done much for the average blue collar worker? No. His campaign works by appealing to the upper class via business policy and appeal to the lower class via fear and racism.
In the past three years, the vast majority of wage gains have gone to workers in the top 20%, continuing the inequality that has been well-established in the era of globalization. Over the past three years, workers in the top 20% enjoyed average real wage gains of $2.61 per hour, five times the gains of workers in the bottom quintile and nearly 3.5 times the gains enjoyed in the middle 60%
Rather than actually creating policy to address these things, he just appeals to the racist sterotypes of the lower class e.g ban immigration to save our jobs- typical mindset of you average uneducated joe blob.
@funnysht: Read “Brave New World”. The tailoring the individual to the job, the audio reinforcement, the SOMA drugs, the consumerist “end don’t mend” philosophy, the “stay young and healthy” until you drop into senility and decay emphasis. “Brave New World” is interesting because it shows what happens when they beat you up with the carrot, instead of the stick. The seductiveness of society tailoring the individual to be what it needs them to be and using the tools to make them happy and compliant. Where 1984 was a cudgel, Brave New a World is a very sharp stiletto.
@try2bhelpful: The conservative movement in the USA has mastered the art of convincing people to vote against their own best interests. It is bizarre the way the very people getting screwed over by this state of affairs continue to vote for even more of it. If nothing else, it's a sad indictment of their education system that is churning out such mind-bogglingly stupid people in these kinds of numbers. But again, that's how they want it - spend less on education and fill it with idiocy like teaching creationism in science classes, you then get a dirt-ignorant populace that will just soak up the bullsh** you're selling them and continue to vote for it.
@AngusD: We are better, but we seem to be able to do similar ourselves. Making the poor think their poverty is, totally, their own failings rather than issues with the system. That if they only worked that bit harder they too could be CEO of a major corporation. The fact that most CEOs are rich guys from private schools is, merely, a coincidence.
The secret is to give the average “Joe” the “other” that they can demonise. The dole bludger, the “foreigner”, gay people, women, “liberals” etc - anyone they can blame because they aren’t getting the breaks they deserve. Usually this is sold by millionaire shock jocks who are “men of the people” or, in this case, Trump. It is even better if you can sell them on making “sacrifices” for their country. Anything that stops them asking why they seem to be subsidising the people making all the money. Trickle down economics is the best trick any neocon government has ever sold to their people. There are going to be a lot of people hurting out there, but their pain is being manipulated so it is directed away from Trump and directed to others.
@try2bhelpful: Oh we certainly follow in their general direction, but without the worst excesses that we see over there where capitalism is left to run riot with barely any constraints. I think the saving grace we have here is compulsory voting which leads to even the apathetic people having to get off their butts and vote, vs the USA where it's optional (in fact they go out of their way to discourage it). The result being that only the most engaged (ie the most extreme) people vote, therefore the policies are tailored towards appealing to the people who actually vote rather than the broader society. It's harder here for political parties to ignore the less fanatical groups further in from the edges, because they still vote just as much as the loonies do, if not more.
@AngusD: Yes like the dolts who voted against Brexit???
Or the people who didn't vote for Corbyn?
Yeah. Ok.
USA: is the most infected country in the world
Trump: BAN ALL IMMIGRANTS SO WE DON'T GET MORE VIRUS.
Immigrants: rolls eyesIt doesn't help?
It certainly doesn’t help, the ban on migrants is purely cosmetic.
If Australia closed its boarders earlier and people didnt cry racism when we started to ban Chinese we wouldnt be in lock down right now…
Immigration is good when it is skilled or Tourism related - but when it is almost forced UN 'charity' for all these country shoppers looking to milk welfare which is the migration most people are against then im 100% against it.
@Trying2SaveABuck: If our borders from every country was closed then we most likely wouldnt be in lockdown but if we did close our country to every country nobody would be crying racism. You're using a strawman argument
@worrierwan: Taiwan immediately stopped flights from China (and it was getting them from Wuhan!).
They had 426 cases and 3 deaths with no lockdown. In fact they just had a holiday and 1,500,000 people went to 10 tourist destinations.
We did not stop flights, had 6,000+ cases and a lock down.
We should of stopped flights from China as fast as Taiwan. But we didn't due to:
1) $$$
2) don't want to anger CCP
3) don't want to be called Racist (just like the Dems did to Trump).
You so realize the ban is a economic move not to reduce not to reduce infection. With millions jobless, there will be so much competition for job hunting.
Interestingly, he didn't ban working visas because of the backlash received by business. So, in the end, it doesn't amount to much. I guess it sounds good in a headline though.
Nah, it's like the walls he was going to build. Nothing is going to come out of it.
His presidency is based on racism and hate. Anything that appeals to racists and fascists is a vote winner. The mentally ill are huge in numbers and don't care about facts or truth, and their mental illness - racism - makes them easy to manipulate and control.
Australia, England and Canada are now exactly the same - puppet states repeating yank ideology and supporting racism and fascism.
Simple plan is to bankrupt all of them, the yank oligarchs buy everything because the countries are broke, and sell them every utility, health service, and infrastructure and allow yank companies to do whatever they want and mine everything everywhere regardless of the damage because we all need the money.
And its all been done right in front of you all, same way as brexit was assisted by a deceitful arrogant media. No difference between the abc now and the bbc as the pell whitewash made very clear.
As far as I could tell, the corporate media were against Brexit. Both sides of that debate were using fear and deceit. Then almost all the UK politicians did their best to delay Brexit or do another vote. It was a blow to the ruling class.
nope - nope and nope. A for consistency and imagination.
I just had a quick look at a report about media bias during a short period during the referendum, and it showed that tabloid press was biased in favour of Brexit while the establishment press were against it. Here is the graph.
@kahn: see you changed your position on one out of 3 - economically and socially brexit is a disaster for 'great' Britain - its just where the yanks wanted it - up for grabs.
Brexit was OBVIOUSLY something that the politicians, media, corporate masters and banks did NOT want.
They've delayed and delayed, tried to say it was 'illegal', etc etc… but in the end the people won.
@petry: Agreed, too many people just doing ad hominem attacks (attacking peoples character) rather than the topic at hand.
People have lost the ability to discuss topics like adults.
@MementoMori: yes facts are irrelevant here - the fact that it is still American policy to spread covid globally remains unrecognised, as does its involvement in its development
Brexit has unequivocally been a disaster for the UK. Economically, socially, politically, literally every possible way imaginable. They still haven't resolved key impossible issues such as the border. Where will the hard border be? They still haven't figured it out yet but they will never without causing a revolt in either Scotland or Ireland. History will look poorly on the whole debacle. Perhaps only Britain will remain in the UK once it is all said and done. It's just another right-wing brain fart like the great wall of the US.
@Other: notably many protesting lockdowns are from the religious supremacists directly connected to the White house.
Its clear that is now White house policy to spread covid far and wide throughout America probably because of the higher death rates among minorities.
it merely follows on from trumps denial of the issue to allow its spread - the 2nd coming justifies all….