Possible Fraud? Demo Yaris Bought and Asked The Car Back

Started a job recently and the company was getting a cheap car for me to travel around sites. The budget was $15000 and I found a demo Yaris which was 2300km on it.

The car was found on carsales.com.au and the sells appear to be a dealer. Due to the virus situation, the car was delivered to me and the cost includes the transfer of title service.

I got the car on 14th April and did a test drive before letting the companies accountant send the money through. I found out that the car doesn't have the owner's manual and service book before paying the money and the seller told me to go to any Toyota dealer and I will get the service book. (It concerns me but I told him I have recorded the phone call and he will be liable if I can't get the service book). He told me he has done the transfer of the title in that afternoon and my company accountant has purchased comprehensive insurance to that car.

I just got a call this afternoon from someone who claims to be from the dealer and ask me to have their car back and he will refund me the full amount due to them unable to provide the service book. I told him that it is not my decision as it is a company car and insurance has already been purchased on it, he offered to give me the insurance money too. He also told me that the car is still currently under his dealership. I told that guy I need to verify it and then called the original sells person (he hasn't been picking up my phone since the 15th April after I told him the Toyota dealer will not provide me service book). The sells person confirmed that the call was from his boss and he is not with the dealer anymore and I have a choice of return the car or not.

I went to service NSW this afternoon to check if the car is under my company or the deal and I was told that I may only check with the letter of the company's director. I was also told that to transfer the car to my company's name, it will also require the director's signature which I never gave to the seller.

I am not sure this is a scam or anything and I want to have some idea about this case before I go to my boss. After all, I am the one who screwed up the purchase and I want to minimise the damage to my reputation in the company.

Community, please Holmes this and give some advice. I left out some details to make it short but will reply to any comment.

Comments

                        • @dassaur: No idea as it has been ages since I bought my car but if the car was taken in at the time, then that page would be missing so I guess that's a kind of record

                    • @dassaur: I'm not worried about the car mechanically as it looks now, drives new and the data seems to be new. Just called my local police and confirmed it not stolen but the fact they can't provide a logbook is very strange. The guys said Toyota has some problem and can't issue it. Can't think any case where Toyota refuse to issue service book for a car went through legally.

              • @bargaingod123: It can't be a demo if you bought from a 2nd hand car yard rather than a Toyota dealer.

                What does the REVs check say?

                Just go and see your boss so they can put somebody with a clue onto the job.
                As my year 5 teacher would say when I wouldn't put my hand out for the cane "the longer it takes, the harder it gets"

                • @brad1-8tsi: So you think "Grand Autos Sydney Pty Ltd" is not a dealer but a 2nd hand car year? the car has 2300km on it which is less than 5000km

                  • +3

                    @bargaingod123: If it was a Toyota Dealer there's a 99% chance of it having the word "Toyota" in the name. There are only 2 dealers in NSW without Toyota in their name. Both in the regional areas.

                    What does google street view show you? Is the place covered in Toyota signs?

                    Sorry about the 15k km thing. I misread your original post and edited mine.

                    • @brad1-8tsi: It is a dealer but not a Toyota dealer. I have never gone to that place (North Rocks, NSW) they hired someone who doesn't know anything about that car to delivery it. Don't know how small deals do their business

              • @bargaingod123: A demo car for a non Toyota dealership?

                Unorthodox.

        • +1

          No, transfer of registration is not transfer of ownership legally.

          It is just that, registration. You can own and buy/sell an unregistered car. If you have a contract, and get a receipt of payment you own it

          • @Shacktool:

            If you have a contract, and get a receipt of payment you own it

            Pretty sure OP has that since he paid for the car….and then gave that contract and tax invoice to his company, which means his work company owns it now….

          • @Shacktool: To transfer registration, you need:
            - Receipt/Contract of sale.
            - RWC (less than 30 days old)
            - Pay stamp duty and transfer fee.
            - Obviously the purchased vehicle has a clear PPSR

            So yes, you own the vehicle (i.e recorded in the Road Authority in your State) if the aforementioned has been all met. (transferred rego)

            Yes, unregistered vehicles; you can own the car if you have a receipt of sale but you have no rego and cannot drive it unless you have a unregistered vehicle permit. But you are not the registered owner and it's not in the system of the Road Agency in your state

            Many sellers sell the vehicle with rego but no RWC, so they run as risk of getting fines, e-tag etc (from the purchaser driving their car - if driveable) unless they document the time of the receipt of sale so they can get it waived and transferred to the buyer
            Cheers

            • +1

              @vinni9284: I agree with everything you mentioned, my point is, registration is not ownership.

              The dealer cannot say they still own the car just because they refuse to complete a transfer of registration.

              • @Shacktool: In regards to defining ownership, then if you have the contract of sale then you are the new owner, technically. So i agree with you
                Normally, it is an expectation that the dealer covers all the costs for RWC, rego, then transfer into your name.
                If not then,
                1 - You can drive it with rego (still under their name) until you do a RWC and transfer. Technically, the car is under the dealer name (but you have proof of sale).
                or
                2 - They take the plates and it becomes an unregistered vehicle and you it becomes like the scenario as per my above comments.
                Cheers

                • @vinni9284:

                  Normally, it is an expectation that the dealer covers all the costs for RWC, rego, then transfer into your name.

                  Yeah, when I got mine from a dealership, they said, no that's you're problem and extra costs to deal with, not ours…. But when I bought privately, the seller did all this for me and all I did was just pay him the cost of the car and that's it.

        • Transferring registration has nothing to do with ownership.

          And registration is not proof of ownership.

  • +2

    It is not a rare exotic sports car, return it and get a full refund of the purchase price and insurance. Untangle the mess and just move on before you end up in an even bigger hole which might even cost your job. Next time perhaps let the company handle the purchase instead of you going car searching which is clearly not your forte.

    • +1

      Yeah, I was asked to do it.

  • +1

    Go to your employer and explain the situation at your first opportunity.
    No point wondering what might happen, it will happen anyway. Keeping it a secret will only make it worse.
    Just do it…

  • Uh, this Yaris… it isn't Red/Orange paintwork is it?

    • It's a white one.

      • No worries… The was an orange one parked @ here

        but it looked older anyhow…

        Speaking of ASIC:
        Seems like there was something going on at:
        https://insolvencynotices.asic.gov.au/browsesearch-notices/n...

        but then they re-instated at: p.47
        https://download.asic.gov.au/media/5262078/a38-19.pdf

        Strange looking Car Yard…

        • +2

          Haha, I posted this thread waiting for informative comments like yours. Seems the dealership is still running but the fact that the sells person is not with the business any more just in this 20 days window concerns me.

          • +12

            @bargaingod123: Mate. It's "sales". Sales people sell things that are for sale.

            • +2

              @brad1-8tsi: Noticed that too, but I'm warming to it now.

              "Did the sells man reach the sells target?"

              "It's David Jones' big end of year sell"

              • +1

                @kiitos: It's not doing it for me. I'm not sell on the idea.

          • @bargaingod123: Given the COVID situation and decreased demand for car purchasing as people are being told to stay home, its not completely unheard of in the current world

  • Thanks for the advice, will tell the director tmr morning

  • You have a signed sales contract, and have paid the money, it's yours. It's done 23k km, give it a service if you're worried, and buy a new service book from Toyota.

    • it is 2300 Km not 23K Km, it's basically a new car

        • +12

          Plot Twist:
          It's a Rental.

          (Neatly explain why the Log Book/Owners Manual are elsewhere).

          Ask Bayswater et al if they are missing a Yaris.

          • @holdenmg: Holly, that could be the answer!!
            But why call me and ask it back? Our company's accountant purchased insurance into, how come she didn't find out?

            • +2

              @bargaingod123: Anyone can buy insurance for any vehicle. Really. It doesn't need to be in your name or anything. Just FYI

              • @joefeng90: Ok, so the name of the owner does not have to match when you input the owner and number plate?

                • @bargaingod123: It's an insurance company…of course not!!

                  It only matters if you have to make a claim.

                  That's when it matters.

                  (Insert sad facey facey)

                  Detail:
                  Generally insurance companies rely on YOUR (customer) DISCLOSURE and verify such matters only at time of a claim.

                  Read the fine print, although I understand it was sorted by your company.

                  So, honest mistake or not, insurance can be deemed void if, for example, you failed to disclose a prior speeding fine.

          • +2

            @holdenmg: Just called police and confirmed it is not a missing car.

          • +2

            @holdenmg: Yep I concur it is an Ex Rental or something. We got scammed by Pennant Hills Toyota several years ago bought a car for my wife. We were told it was one lady owner. When I checked for a log book there wasn't one. Did my research it was an ex Avis rental. Finally got the log book from the dealer suprise…. no service history or stamps. Even better the dealer offered to stamp the log book for us as compensense for that. Found out that most used Toyotas that dealers have are sourced from the ex rental market. And that is a big car dealer!

            • @Brooklyn: Wow!!! You got a refund? How does the story end?

      • +1

        Sorry misread, buy a logbook from Toyota and service it as per the book. One thing I would do, is confirm with Toyota that it has warranty, and nothing weird has happened. If it all checks out, tell them the car is yours and they can take a long walk off a short pier.

        • +2

          "they can take a long walk off a short pier."

          my god. that's an elegant way of saying F off.

          i learn a new phrase today!

          • @AirbusA389: Same here.

          • +2

            @AirbusA389: Aahh, showing your age. That's not a new phrase, it's a rather old one. As in Happy Days and the Fonz. (Baby boomers will know it well.

  • This appears to be their facebook page as it links to the above website.
    https://www.facebook.com/GRAND-autos-101607871398994/
    They look suss just based on their web presence. That page has their address in a residential building. You could have a rental car that might be recovered in a few days.

    • Shop 44, 14 Loyalty Road, North Rocks, NSW, 2151
      the contract says this is their address.

    • +1

      (FB) Page created – 23 January 2020

      OP is screwed.

      • FB is not composery of a small business though

        • As expected (based on your latest post) the car was a rental. Hopefully you can get some money back.

          Remember the above facebook page could help you track them down if they disappear.

  • get a refund then return the car for both cost of car and insurance then buy another car….?

  • Sounds like a scam; car likely has debt owing on it and likely repairable write off as well and taking the car back to return it - they can co-erce the car back without refund. Win-win for the 'seller'. I'd tell your company and go to relevant Fair Trading authority.

  • It's a real car dealership since 2016, and having a small premises is not a big deal. if they were outright dodgy they wouldn't have a car license at all and just do backyard sales. I think you may be overthinking this whole thing. The reason you got it for a good price was you didn't have to pay big overheads.

    • +1

      It's not the price I am worried, I'm worried that they can't provide a good reason for no service logbook.

      • +8

        They also cant provide a good reason for wanting the car back. No dealer in their right mind would buy a car back after selling it. Red flags everywhere!

      • Because it was lost?

  • Call the guy who's offering to buy it back and ask him for the truth?

    • I text him and he hasn't replied yet. Prefer texting so I can have some evidence if this thing goes wrong

      • +1

        How was the vehicle delivered to you? I find it strange anyone would deliver a vehicle to you without receiving payment first?

        • He hired someone to deliver it to me, I thought he was an employee at first but it turns out he has nothing to do with the dealer and just want to go home after the car was delivered. The plan was for the seller to deliver it to me himself and the company accountant will transfer him the money if everything checks out before he actually gives me the keys.

          • +1

            @bargaingod123: Curiouser and curiouser.

            Definitely a strange one. Looking forward to hearing the resolution!

            • @anzacpaul: yeah, will post updates. I don't see how that dealer is going to cheat on me for now, and that's why I come here to see if anyone can think of how they are going to scam me if it is actually a scam

              • @bargaingod123: As i said originally, ask the dealer for the truth. Tell him you're willing to return the car, but you need the reason as it was a company purchase (you can make up some bs about tax/auditing etc).

                Otherwise, register it in the company name and keep it.

                • +1

                  @anzacpaul: Haha, exactly what I said, I asked him for a statement to put into paperwork for the audition.

  • +9

    Ok so a few things

    • it's not a demo, nor is is a rental with that sort of mileage
    • service book missing is concerning as it would've said who the first owner was. A Toyota service department might shed some light on this, also might not.
    • car is still in the dealer's name until stamp duty is paid etc. The car is still the dealer's car right now.
    • you absolutely need to sit down with your boss, explain the situation, then get on a conference call with him and the car salesman/manager. Stop texting!
      • Why it is not a demo? Because it isn't a Toyota specific dealer?
      • Will call Toyota service tmr morning
      • I was told by the seller he has done the change of ownership on the day. (the $15000 includes stamp duty and his service fee for going to the rms). I was told it is still under dealer's name only today and I'll check tomorrow with boss's help.
      • Yes, will told to boss after calling Toyota service.
      • +1

        Why it is not a demo? Because it isn't a Toyota specific dealer?

        Yep

        Why you'd go to some shonky yard to buy a car, that isn't even a Toyota dealer is beyond me.

        Hell, you could've told work that a new one is only $17,490 and I'm sure they would've fronted the cost!

        • I was told it's a demo and was told they are a dealer and their ABN shows they are a car dealer.

          • +8

            @bargaingod123: Yes, the fact they're a dealer doesn't mean they're a Toyota dealer…

            You really did some shockin research into this and is either a troll post or someone who really needs more life lessons!

    • I agree 100%. If you want something done, pick up the phone and call them. A conference call with your boss to corroborate is even better. This whole situation is dodgy as.

    • car is still in the dealer's name until stamp duty is paid etc. The car is still the dealer's car right now.

      Quite certain that Australia wide, registration is not proof of ownership.

      Having a vehicle in your name does not necessarily indicate ownership of the car, just that the person/party is the registered operator and responsible for all fines etc.

      Provided OP has a contract of sale, car is in their posession, and money has already changed hands, the car is not the dealer's car.

      OP may want to contact VicRoads to notify them that ownership has changed hands, but somebody may be able to advise better on this.

      • Dealer and OP in Sydney, but by all means contact VicRoads.
        Maybe they'll have the answers.

        • +1

          Lol was thinking for my state, but obviously contact the local road authority.

      • registration is not proof of ownership.

        Having a vehicle in your name does not necessarily indicate ownership of the car, just that the person/party is the registered operator and responsible for all fines etc.

        That is true

  • +30

    Real answer. The car was traded in. The person who traded failed credit and didn't receive new car. Or Car sold within cooling period for new car. The real owner wants their car back.

    • +4

      Yeah this sounds accurate. The car couldn't be a demo from a non-Toyota dealer because they don't sell new toyotas. Hence don't have 'demo' vehicles.

      Really that should have been the first red flag.

  • +8

    Obviously they forgot the sack of heroin hidden under the spare and want it back

  • -3

    Pretty sure you can get a refund for insurance policy when it is sold or no longer needed. I successfully did it with a few different companies when selling the car.

    P.s personally I wouldn't post the dealership details here, but to only a select few on PM until more discussion and resolution is sought.

    • +2

      I think it's within 14 days with no claim, you can get full refund of your insurance.

      • yeah, the car got bumped from the back, I'm not in fault but the company accountant has contacted the insurance.

  • +11

    Everything about this has a whiff about it.

    In my experience, company cars are provided (i.e. bought) by the company, not effectively through an employee expensing one back.

    That said, what companies just hand over $15k for a car without doing any of their own DD on the purchase?

    Why would OP source a car their company is to pay for through some backyard operation? Why would OP agree to a transaction that looked dodgy to them at the time? Surely this is the time to make sure everything is squeaky clean?

    OP, why are you not simply referring this matter to your employer? One way or another you are now the meat in the sandwich … everyone's going to come for you when this all turns to custard (which it already has, it's just your employer hasn't figured that out yet) … yet you are the one with the least amount of useful information in the whole situation.

    • +6

      Yeah this whole thing sounds dodgey. Could be a troll post.. Subbed to see how this ends.

      • Maybe it's one of those zackyd post. Lots of twists. More twists than all the Saw movies put together.

    • I was told to buy a second hand car with a $15000 budget to use for work and it didn't sound dodge until later. Overall buying from a dealer should be safer thab buying from privat?

      • +7

        Even if I accept everything you've told us on face value and look at it in the best possible light, I'd refer you to my final paragraph above.

        It's time to speak to your employer about it (NOW) and get them involved. Right now, you cannot solve the problem. In fact, you can only make what's already looking like a complete balls up even worse.

      • Something smells fishy. So the company you work for is big enough to allow their worker to buy a $15k vehicle but they will not have it checked and approved by the finance department and/or the management?

  • +1

    hope you come alright at the end of this saga.

  • +1

    Check behind the door panels. You might find drugs.

    • Lol, going to have a brief look.

    • wow. first it's TV and now car.

  • +14

    This is easily solved. Get refund first. Hand car back. Tell boss you noticed a fault with the car due to your high level of mechanical skills and made the dealer give you a full refund and cover the insurance cost due to your high level of negotiation skills. Your boss will super impressed. Then go and buy a legit car from a legit dealer.

    • +4

      Boss will likey buy OP a brand new 70k BMW to show how much of a valuable asset OP is to the company.

      • I thought a high yield investment car started at 80K?

        • +1

          Thay was pre-covid.

  • Doesn't pass the pub test.

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