Hi guys,
I found this offer with flybuys: 10,000 points if you spend $50 in "in Liqourland" for 3 consecutive weeks. I don't want to be a hypocrite and I admit I ocassionally drink, in limit. However, do you think it is immoral to promote alcoholism? You can work it out, $50 is a lot of money per week for booze.
Um shouldn't I at least buy you dinner first?
Sure, which restaurant? :)
@iforgotmysocks: Oh :(, we could get dominos delivered?
But you will have to pay since IForgotMyWallet.
….
Promoting Alcohol is not the same as promoting alcoholism which is a disorder. I'm guessing the question should be "Is it immoral to promote alcohol?".
Targeted offer? 😉
I don't drink and spend a fair bit of money at coles (but never liqourland) and didn't get this offer…
Same, its behavioral targeting / profiling based of your purchases linked to your fly buys accounts.
Behavioral targeting - If you buy alcohol even once you'll get the offer
Profiling - Based on your daily/weekly shop you are a single young male, single male's are more likely to buy alcohol - you get the offer. Also offers for bonus points if you complete surveys to improve the profiling - You are now a rich single white male with depression, family history of abuse in a highly stressful job - you now get double the bonus for double the amount of alcohol purchased.
I think you just justified how this is immoral.
It's not immoral at all. $50 might not even buy you one bottle of champagne or wine. For a family this isn't a lot of booze. If you buy cheap wine you might get a few bottles but no one is forcing you to drink them by yourself all within each week, they are good to drink for a few years normally.
I love these offers, it gives me a chance to stock up on maybe 3 or 4 good bottles of red and I dont feel pressured to guzzle them down quickly.
If you have a drinking problem, you're probably shopping at Dan's or Aldi for your booze anyway where you can get cleanskin wine for something like at $2 a bottle.
Immoral to promote alcoholism? Yes. To promote alcohol? No. Not everyone who drinks or buys alcohol is or will become an alcoholic.
It's aimed at Adults. Adults are responsible for their own choices, decisions and consequences.
Adults
areresponsible
should be
Adults are responsible for their own choices, decisions and consequences.
Hmmm…
That being said, I'm not a proponent of the nanny state. I went with option 3 - indifferent. Meh.
Thanks Doc 👍
Not sure why you are being negged, Jar Jar, unless by Star Wars fans who didn't like your character.
Everything you said was factually correct. (Yes, I know that doesn't relate to how people vote or think ;)) The only thing I'd pick at was "Even a single episode of excessive drinking can lead to a negative outcome" - "negative outcome" is a bit wishy-washy and vague, but still correct…
Not sure why you are being negged, Jar Jar, unless by Star Wars fans who didn't like your character.
Based on some of the PMs I've received over the last couple days, I'm starting to think that the real Jar Jar Binks gets hated on because of me, and not the other way round ;)
The numerous health problems include increased cancer risk….
Including beating their wives and girlfriends.
Chocolate share packs seem to be on special every week. Should the supermarket be discounting bulk unhealthy food on a regular basis? It seems immoral for those who can't control their own eating habits.
Does chocolate abuse lead to domestic violence? I think it is immoral as it is targetted. I could be biased as I was a victim of alcholism related domestic violence but I agree with your pov as well as… people should make their own choices.
By your logic, should knives not be on special because knife abuse leads to domestic violence? It is immoral to sell knives because someone could use it as a weapon in domestic violence?
Sugar is more addictive than many illicit drugs and has dire lomg term consequences.
The list of ailments and death, related to sugar addiction, is monumental.
Sugar addiction is real, it's extremely harmful and can, and often does have terrible outcomes.
If you know anyone that is a doctor or hospital worker, they will tell you more, it's worth asking (or look online).
As others have said, we aren't a nanny state, make your own choices and educate yourself on the consequences of excessive use. Adults are responsible for makimg their own decisions, albeit not always the right ones ;)
On a side note, I've been drunk on several ocassions throughout my life and not once have I felt the need to be violent, the opposite in fact. Everyone is different.
PS I'm sorry to hear you were the victim of alcohol related violence. Just remember not everyone is like this when they've had a few too many, I think it's down to the individual more than the booze itself.
The promotion is designed to be habit forming for an unhealthy habit. A similar habit forming offer for chocolate or ice cream would be immoral too.
$50 per week is nothing, you can spend that on a 4-pack of beer at the bar near my place…
Some people prefer quality over quantity :D
Exactly. Plenty of bottles of wine or champagne are well over $50. Is 1 bottle of wine a week excessive drinking?
Is Hungry Jacks promoting obesity when they advertise?
Are Crown casino promoting irresponsible gambling when they advertise?
Are Banks promoting irresponsible borrowing when they advertise holidaying on credit?
No.
No.
No.
It is up to the individual to work out whether the product / service is for them.
Crown doesn't advertise gambling at all. They advertise it as gaming.
Wha? The only games they have are gambling games. How do you give this a pass?
Fine, this deal you mention doesn't promote the consumption of alcohol. It only promotes the purchase of alcohol.
doesn't mean you got to drink it.
$50 is hardly immoral, two bottles of 'champagne' (or a slab) please.
A slab a week is not healthy.
3 beers a day is bad? get a life
It's 4-5 standard drinks a day with no rest days. That's well above the Australian recommended maximum.
@zoob: You do now you dont need to drink a slab in a week? It'll happily sit there for months and be okay. Based on what you are saying, beer makers shouldn't even be selling a slab of beer. Perhaps they should juat sell single bottles? Let's all get a grip. If people want a drink and have a drinking problem they will without this offer.
In fact you'd probably save more than $50 over 3 weeks just by shopping at Dan Murphys compared to Liquorland, so what's the difference?
@[Deactivated]: I was only making the point that 3 beers a day, every day as implied by darkmoss is not healthy despite his opinion. I made no other comment so your reply to me makes no sense.
I could argue a slab over a weekend is a decent life. Or three or four slabs for a whole week. But three beers every day is just sad.
If you think any of that is healthy I have a bridge to sell you.
$50 per week is two decent bottles of wine. Hardly alcoholism. And if you live with a partner, it is barely enough to get you each a glass of wine with dinner each night.
As a good OzB’er, you buy the ~$2.40/bottle wine from ALDI. $50 per week on that would definitely be considered alcoholism :)
No alcohol available in SA Aldi. : - (
That sucks, why?
OP, I don't know if you are aware, but it is possible to drink alcohol without becoming an alcoholic.
Who says you have to drink it? Or even drink it all in the week?
I have a few friends who I give a bottle of decent scotch to for their birthday.
Or I can store said alcohol in the cupboard until such a time as I want it.
well if you drink $50 worth of $3 bottles of wine, then you probably are an alcoholic
what about those that drink a $50 bottle?
ever heard of sharing/stocking up?
You obviously have no idea about quality wine then, as that's only 1 or 2 bottles of wine. What crazy talk.
People who ask these sorts of questions really just want to be controlled by the govt or those in power.
What the hell has happened to free will and personal responsibility?
People really do want to live in a nanny state
"Immoral" does not equal "illegal". There are many things society steers away from for immoral reasons that are not illegal.
Is Australia's lack of cigarette advertising a good thing or a bad thing?
However, do you think it is immoral to promote alcoholism?
How is that promoting alcoholism? Is selling discounted red meat promoting heart disease or bowel cancer?
$50 a week spent on alcohol doesn't make someone an alcoholic.
Alcoholism is when someone indulges in uncontrolled drinking and has a preoccupation and emotional dependence on alcohol.
That'll cost a hell of a lot more than $50 a week.
I know right. Can't even get a bag of goon for every night for $50/week.
no its not immoral unless you know the person has a problem, and also i don't think $50 a week is that much on alcohol i don't drink everyday or even every week just depends. isnt that like 10K points = roughly $10 so that not that much really, it about a bottle of jack Daniels a week (you can bring forward purchases just like government grants for reno).
10,000 points is $50. Which is pretty good for a $150 spend.
I actually argued when I worked for the chains that the upsell(spend this get this for this) is not appropriate. Now I own my own store and I still don't believe in the upsell. As a store we were forced to hit a certain percentage. So what? Twist customers arms to buy more than they were prepared for?
I don't think it is immoral as such but I think we have to think about how much responsibility we place on the individual. At the end of the day, our governments and regulators can be irresponsible in how they allow promotions and advertising that can promote unhealthy habits.
It's not immoral in this case, and you maybe have to check your own judgement and bias towards this specific promotion, however I think there is such a thing as too much advertising on our media around unhealthy habits with alcohol, gambling, and unhealthy foods. I think it speaks to our culture even that it's acceptable for children to see ads on these things as we have normalised it. Probably not so much as in the US with their unhealthy diets, but still.
Capitalism.
Our whole system is immoral. We literally judge people's worth by their wealth and not their actions. Morally bankrupt in other words.
Of course it's immoral to promote alcoholism but this is not really doing that IMO.
There is nothing immoral about promoting and selling goods that can be legally used and consumed.
legal =/= moral
They are promoting alcoholism as much as any loyalty based system is promoting over consumption.
I could easily spend 80 plus on one bottle of wine… go away with your labels
Spendtrift.
Alcoholic.
Anti-social.
more like Penfolds
Krug
lol Wolf blass
OP reading your post makes we want to have a drink
It's 5 o'clock somewhere
You can work it out, $50 is a lot of money per week for booze.
Maybe for you, maybe not for others.
But it says nothing about quantity of alcohol. You could purchase as little as a single bottle of wine, or as much as 10 bottles.
I'm sure you spend what some would consider a ridiculous amount on something they don't value.
Lay out your regular expenses for open scrutiny so we can all tell you what you spend too much on.
Sure here you go:
* Rent $1434 (will be reduced to $600 soon)
* Car loan $500
* Subscriptions $20
* Health insurance $70
* Utilities $150 (I have an electric heater)
* Grocery $400 (includes eating out)
* NBN $65
* Phone $45
Notes:
* 40% of my paycheck gets invested with Raiz. All the expenses are budgeted within 60%.
* All are monthly approximates.
* I live alone at the moment so I pay 100%
You spend too much on mobile, cut down the data and carry a book. Phones are an addiction.
Health insurance is a waste, and diverts money away from the public system that protects people, not profits.
Car loan suggests poor money management. You are borrowing money to pay for a depreciating asset. If you can't afford it outright, get a cheaper car instead of trying to show off.
@FrugalDealSeeker: It's not spend all your savings on a car, it's buy a cheaper car. There's pretty substantial interest on car loans in Australia, so you're paying for the privilege of working 5 extra hours a week.
Also word of warning, you might be uninsured if you get into a crash while doing food delivery if you've got the wrong type of insurance.
Also word of warning, you might be uninsured if you get into a crash while doing food delivery if you've got the wrong type of insurance.
yeah there were a bunch of insurances which had this clause, mine doesn't so I called them to be sure but they were okay with it.
It's not spend
allsome of your savings on a car, it's buy a cheaper car. There's pretty substantial interest on car loans in Australia, so you're paying for the privilege of working 5 extra hours a week.
I spent about $6500 on a well maintained 2009 Accord at about 160k. Yes I could've paid with the cash but I wanted to build a bit of a credit score for a house.
Yes, I could go cheaper, but I just thought I'd rather have a good car for 5-6 years than keep buying 250k+ $2 - $3k Camry after every few years after it dies. Nonetheless, I like to drive and my car is quite comfortable actually and on my way home, while doing a few deliveries I have already paid out the interest and depreciation.
EDIT: Also, my car is actually lower than my average monthly income, so I can paid it off anytime. It's just to build credit and get a decent car.
@FrugalDealSeeker: There's no such thing as needing to have a car loan to build up a credit score. If you want to establish a credit file, just get a fee free credit card and pay it off on time every month. Some utilities and mobile phone post paid providers may show up on a credit file too.
What the bank is going to mainly look at it is no history of repayment defaults, you income and your expenses. They aren't likely to care about whether or not you had a car loan.
Back to your car, the car is $6500 and you are paying $500/month. How long is your loan term? Sounds like you are on some ridiculous rate if that's any more than 14 or 15 months to pay that loan off. If there's no early repayment fees you should just consider paying it off early.
just get a fee free credit card and pay it off on time every month. Some utilities and mobile phone post paid providers may show up on a credit file too
Can't do that as I am a temporary resident, atm. You'd be surprised how few financial and social welfare services we actually have access to.
Back to your car, the car is $6500 and you are paying $500/month. How long is your loan term? Sounds like you are on some ridiculous rate if that's any more than 14 or 15 months to pay that loan off. If there's no early repayment fees you should just consider paying it off early.
Yes, 55 x 125… paid about $650 downpayment, I think. It's definitely <8% pa.
Too much on groceries
Wow, your spending is out of control. Have a drink…
One should not even be drinking it, let alone promote it. Its an immoral act because its use makes a person lose their senses. See also the dryjuly campaign.
dryjuly
nah sounds lame
Go tilt your head and moralize somewhere else.
It'll never be popular, but you're right.
Smoking is a problem and the gov has done a great job of ostracising smokers but fell short of a total ban.
Alcohol is more of a problem but… nothing.
From a health perspective, of course it's immoral. Alcohol is one of the most addictive and most abused substances. However, immorality doesn't necessarily dictate on whether something should legal or illegal.
I mean, is it immoral to promote tobacco consumption? In Australia, advertising tobacco is banned, while alcohol is not. The ban seems somewhat arbitrary to me.
In Australia, advertising tobacco is banned, while alcohol is not. The ban seems somewhat arbitrary to me.
Targetting a vulnerable person's addiction and capitalising on it coz it's legal, made me think it is immoral.
are you going to sue liquorland for building a store near people too?
Targetting a vulnerable person's addiction and capitalising on it coz it's legal, made me think it is immoral.
All advertising is targeting some addiction, whether it is alcohol, consumerism, gambling, sex, the desire to look good, the desire to have more than others…etc.
We dont get flybuys points for tobacco, but you do for alcohol?
Yes.
Good idea.. Lets tweet this to Coles
I believe it's immoral to promote alcoholism or any other addiction, however this is not the case.
alcohol, tobacco, gambling are all evil things that destroy lives,
at the same time they are fun if done in moderation
and of course none will ever be banned, because our piss poor government have no other ways to generate income other than these + stamp_duty from RE
at the same time they are fun if done in moderation
WRONG: No tobacco is fun for your body even in little amounts
or for the passive smokers that have no choice
i never once said it wasnt bad for your body. Some people enjoy smoking that was my point.
only reason government wont ban it is because they love the tax / they would get voted out.
"$50 is a lot of money per week for booze"
Nice pontificating
Ridiculous premise.
Poll please.