I was comparing a Huawei Mate 30 Pro to a Samsung S20 Plus and noticed there is a lot of concerns that Huawei as a company are involved in spying and commercial espionage.
I found this article and it seems very compelling.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/17/18264283/huawei-security-…
Do you believe this is a concern or just scare mongering?
At this point in time I'm backing Chyna
For Nawth Career
If Kim Jong-Un died suddenly, his Korea would be over.
it's Jyner according to Trump
Nu phone, who dis?
Why not both?
Do you mean ¿Por qué no los dos?
It is a no brainer to prefer China for me. Not because I like China but simply because they have less power over you directly and are far less likely to share anything back with the Australian government. For the same reasons I always choose VPN endpoints in countries with neutral at best relations with Australia, not because I have anything to hide but simply because I believe it is none of their business what I do as I am not doing anything illegal. People suspect china is spying (probably are), we KNOW the US is spying.
Well.. it's a strong brainer for me. While I understand your point completely, but if you post anti-communist or pro-democratic stuff online, and call Xi Jinping winnie the pooh, and travel to China with in next few years, who knows if you will ever come back alive. Where as, you can call Trump an Orange and whatever name you want, atleast you know there is some protection for you from Australia, and most likely, things won't even escalate that far, you know, due to freedom or rather illusion of freedom of speech etc. etc…
Made 7 trips to China and 4 trips to the US last year. Came back alive. What was I doing wrong ?
@cauilfield: You forgot to arrange a coup to overthrow XiJing Ping re China.
Re America, are you black?
But it doesn't matter, enjoy the sexual harassment at their airport security anyway.
Take care ;)
@berry580: I'm not black. Not even brown. But yeah, I disliked their security at the LAX.
Also felt so much safer in China, can't compare walking down the streets of Tianhe (GZ) vs West Hollywood at night
@cauilfield: At least in West Hollywood you can see who is robbing you. In GZ, they rob what you cannot afford to buy or see, your human rights.
@cauilfield: Not being a paranoid schizophrenic poorly educated sheep who will probably spend their whole lives blaming other people for not being successful.
you just put yourself on the chinese radar
but if you post anti-communist or pro-democratic stuff online, and call Xi Jinping winnie the pooh, and travel to China with in next few years, who knows if you will ever come back alive
Much less than that, just query the Tiananmen Square massacre, or say the South China Sea is not soley for China.
Many outspoken Chinese against the CCP did that, they had family back there.
They mysteriously travelled back to China despite being citizens in the west (these are usually due to threats to hold family ransom), the people never went back and went missing
@frostman: Who are these people? Where are the news articles on their disappearance? Or are you going to claim nobody reported it next?
@khell: Here CCP Minion: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/how-china-deals-with-diss…
Do you trust BusinessInsider or only CCP-controlled media?
@frostman: LOL typical name-calling from someone who is called out on their unsubstantiated claims.
Only one of those people in your article supposedly "went missing" - not "many" - so as suspected, you are full of shit.
Do you trust
Only a fool blindly trusts.
@khell: Serious question, I you willing for me to Google Search and provide Articles about missing people due to CCP dissent?
Im talking about reputable arciles, not forums.
Ill challenge you - if you accept and I come back with articles - you will need to create a new Thread titled "im an idiot"
@frostman: So it's true then - you are just making wild claims based on nothing but hearsay. I even went easy on you and only focused on the part where you said they "went missing", but your entire post is as follows:
Much less than that, just query the Tiananmen Square massacre, or say the South China Sea is not soley for China.
Many outspoken Chinese against the CCP did that, they had family back there.
They mysteriously travelled back to China despite being citizens in the west (these are usually due to threats to hold family ransom), the people never went back and went missing
In summary:
1. Query X or Y
2. Visit China
3. Go missing
This is a total load of shit you made up and not even your original article supports it. Nothing but fearmongering. Repeat a lie enough times and people start believing it's true.
@khell: https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2019/dec/02/yang-…
Does Mr yang not count CCP Minion?
Yang is granted one half-hour consular visit each month. His already limited contact from family has been cut off: letters are not being delivered and verbal messages are not being passed on. He has still not been allowed to communicate with his lawyers, after nearly 11 months in detention
@khell: Hello, you dont want the challenge?
Ill challenge you - if you accept and I come back with articles - you will need to create a new Thread titled "im an idiot"
Typical mindset.
btw Winnie the pooh is totally fine in China. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wunGTQRJOFA&feature=youtu.be
What would be the best endpoints you choose? I just have it set to auto but always seems to default to servers in Australia. Should I use different ones?
basically countries that are not part of any of the intelligence sharing alliance. Personally I will generally use Switzerland, Romania, Iceland, Sweden or Malaysia if wanting somewhere closer.
@gromit: Sure does if you access services like Facebook or even have a Android phone that uses the VPN. They can easily match your IP to the login (FVEY has direct access to social media, Google + others) and find out your real identity.
Only way to be 'anonymous' on a VPN is to not login to any services and use a bootable ISO.
@apptrack: I am not silly enough to use easily personally identifiable information on my VPN, I actually have a seperate VM/VPN for that, even then facebook/social media is not something I use. You don't need a bootable ISO, far easier just to have a VM you can rollback.
Just an FYI, VPN does not protect you as much as it is advertised. Google, Facebook, Amazon, US, China still know what you're browsing. VPN only protects you from your ISP, in our case it's Optus, Telstra etc. Don't rely on VPN so much. Probably a combination of Tor + VPN might give better anonymity, but I'm not sure.
lucky I don't use facebook, google or amazon then! Duck Duck Go and safe browsing and ad/tracking blocking are not hard. The main point though is to ensure primarily your ISP can't collect useful data and secondly your coming out onto the internet at a point with good privacy laws and thirdly that you don't use information that can identify you personally. That is obviously not a panacea but it then gives you a platform to use the internet as safely (or as unsafely) as you desire.
@gromit: Yes Duck Duck Go is another safe"r" browsing tool in that Google won't know your search interests to bombard you with ads on YouTube with something you already purchased 3 months ago. For me the benefits of VPN are not worth it I couldn't even access US Amazon Prime and US Netflix.
@alikazi: VPN doesn't have to be an all or nothing. My router supports hybrid VPN which I use for US netflix occasionally, I have seperate VM's for general browsing, downloading and for one for shopping. The VM's all run on my NAS or my server and are snapshotted for easy rollbacks, each tend to use a different VPN endpoint. It may seem overkill but I had to setup a lot of this to lab a security solution for a client network anyway so my lab really just became my secure internet access solution.
@gromit: I'm stuck with home wireless broadband with a 4G network and a official Huawei router which I need to use to access my wireless broadband. This router doesn't even allow me to open my NAT for games. Gone are the days I used to play with router firmware on a Linksys WRT. Not as sophisticated as your setup, you seem to be from IT Networking background but I believe with a WRT I would've been able to improve my privacy and VPN could have come in handy at that point. So now I simply use 1.1.1.1 Cloudflare DNS for whatever privacy it can provide me. I tried setting my router's DNS to 1.1.1.1 but my gaming experience suffered so I change the DNS on my devices settings.
I couldnt even pay a woman enough to be interested in me, if a government agency was interested in my life I would be kinda grateful
That's true until you start becoming very active in promoting activities that's against the interest of The CCP.
Then something bad happens to you if you go China, then people in the "free world" gets another reason to hate the CCP.
Sounds like you don't really care about your privacy.
By default, all Chinese companies share information with Chinese govt. The question is whether that matters to you. For some it's not a big deal and they want stuff for cheap, for others it's a consideration and not something they're comfortable with.
Are there no cheap options other than Huawei?
Sure there are - THL, Xiaimi and many more
There are tonnes of other cheap options. They're pretty much all Chinese too though.
Always been a fan of zenfones
damn, the Chinese.govt knows I love.buyibg useless stuff
I got snow duck moulds the other day, I'm on the naught list
By default, all Chinese companies share information with Chinese govt.
Share what info? If they shared any analytics when 'share analytics' is disabled it would be major news, as it could easily justify their ban.
They get your personal details if you create an account with them. They get your usage of their apps. But they could not get away collecting any of the stuff Microsoft, Facebook, Google and Amazon has.
I think you forgot to put the word “must” in the line “all Chinese companies share information”
Are you someone with sensitive info? If you're not, go ahead. If you are, just to be safe, I'd stay away just in case
Sure, if you're a "nobody" and it's only say a few thousand people it's fine.
But as more and more people buy it, they actually get more powerful in terms of access to data.
Let's say 15 Million Australians were using a Huawei, and all the information was bouncing back-and-forth to a Huawei server in China. In such scenario, is there an inherit risk to Australia's national security and economy?
You betcha. The same can be said about Facebook or Google, however, they're much much smaller risk that it's actually not comparable. And here's why: neither Facebook nor Google have military nor economic powers to affect Australia, and neither are required to cooperate with the USA government on sensitive topics where a warrant or court decision may be required. Unlike Huawei which has close ties to its government, and are legally required to do anything they are demanded by a law they've passed several years ago.
With that said, history is littered with wars… yet the majority of wars occur with two states that have different languages.
So even if USA government was spying on Australians with as much vigour as China, the risk is still lower due to this inherit factors of our close/shared language, culture, and values. So people that say USA is just as bad as China, they either haven't thought it all the way through or they've purposely mislead the reader.
Oh I 100% agree with your comments. It's a slippery slope and things can go bad quickly. The fact that for anyone to do business there, you need a partner, which then becomes a ccp partner as you grow bigger is just too dangerous.
I had the chance to get the mate 20 pro or the s10+. I personally felt it was just too risky. I have nothing to hide mind you, but you voice those concerns.
Choosing though is a luxury we have here. If someone chooses to use a huawei device, then that's their option. I hope people do care about their privacy though.
So what's the national security risk to Australia if 15 million Aussies use Hauwei phones?
They finally have an accurate average time of when an average Aussie wakes up and thus can plan the best time possible to launch a surprise attack in Darwin?
That's the same attitude people had to social media in the late-00's. Now it's a very different sentiment/viewpoint.
In fact, the USA government (Democrats AND Republicans) are very interested and concerned about the power of these platforms, where they can literally choose the next president. That's just one example of having poor foresight.
Though to explain the matters, think of a Heist Movie. Now imagine how much easier the antagonist's job would be with easy access to background information (or meta-data) about the job from multiple angles. Now imagine how impossible the job would be without any information. Well, national security is quite like that. As an analogy, let's say one state wanted to strike another state… what would be the best tactic? Well, the element of surprise would be very high on that list. For instance, you can find a time where the key leaders could be in a secluded meeting which could delay a military response. How can you find such information? Well, you could perhaps track the phones of workers and recognise a pattern, and work your way backwards with meta-data to find out details. And the more you accumulate, the more accurate and complete your picture becomes.
As they say, quantity has a quality of its own.
It's big data. The lack of awareness on this forum is astounding.
As much as I hate to sound like a conspiracy theoryist, if you think Facebook and Google doesn't have the power to affect Australia, it shows how good a job they've already done.
…but that's not what I even said.
I said they don't have the same military and economic capabilities as the Chinese government, who does/could use Huawei's access. And neither are connected to the USA government the way Huawei is. And as I mentioned, the risk from USA government is not the same as the risk from the Chinese government.
When you boil it down, anybody has "the power to affect Australia". For the basis of debate, we're limiting in terms of probability and scale. I mean, one person eating a Bat-Soup in Wuhan has the power to affect Australia ;)
@Kangal: Bat-Soup, lol. You definitely have a point.
From a point of interest, with the data from Facebook having a part in Trump being elected, you don't easily get to beat that level of potential scalable manipulation. I'd put forth that a greater economic and military power than China is already partially influenced by these by these infomation monoliths.
The power to turn a population on a dime is not to be underestimated.
The fact you're not thinking of the big picture shows you underestimate the Chinese
No spyware at all comrade, you can speak freely with Huawei phone.
I’m not sure, I am no security expert, but I do know there are plenty of good alternatives out there so it’s a risk I do not need to take or wish to even support a Chinese owned company.
Yes, there is a threat that they may monitor your Ozbargain usage and arrive at the store before you and do a Broden.
What did you find compelling in that article? Basically, there has been no evidence that Huawei products have any backdoors or are compromised in some way. There are just fears that it might happen in the future. As one of the "experts" said:
"Any supposedly safe Chinese product is one firmware update away from being an insecure Chinese product."
Fears of backdoors, fears of spying, fears of dependence on Chinese companies, fears of the US falling behind China economically and technologically. In essence, these are political fears. What was missing from the article was the fear that Huawei products could not be manipulated by US intelligence agencies like the NSA to install their own backdoors and bypass encryption, etc. Funny how that wasn't mentioned, isn't it? Just look at how US officials were able to bypass Apple's security system after the Boston marathon bombing. That was after they put on a spectacle of asking Apple to provide a backdoor (which was refused) when they didn't need their help. So ask yourself: is it a concern of Chinese spying or a concern of US spying?
As an aside, I do find it amusing they label Marco Rubio an expert as he is one of the most hawkish politicians in the US.
Funny how the only truthful comments in here get downvoted.
I actually have a Huawei, rooted it and inspected the firmware for my own purposes. It doesn't do anything nefarious or send anything home. Yes, the US pretends that it is 'one firmware update away from being an insecure Chinese product' but this has never happened. If it did, it would damage their reputation.
Meanwhile US products have backdoors (purpose built, see Cisco and Intel) and security issues on the weekly and no one cares at all. These are the guys actually using our information and the only ones who could do anything with it. Huawei is a threat, not just because of technology and trade but because they don't have any US backdoors.
I think the fear with the Chinese is not with what has occurred in the mobile space, but just in general what it has been willing to do in the past. And if the past is any reflection of what they are willing to do in the current, its justified.
I cant remember who said this, but if the Chinese is willing to kill their own for whatever purpose, you shouldn't expect they would treat you any more kindly (in regards to Uyghurs/Tiananmen square etc).
Of course deaths has occurred in similar instances in other countries, but none quiet so to the same extent the CCP happily goes about "re-educating" their own citizens.
american cops are beating up and kiling their citizens on camera, so lets not use any american companies mobiles with your logic
@Speckled Jim: I accept Chinese made, I have no qualms with Chinese employment and productivity etc.
Do we really care about what China is doing within its own borders? Our country is a strong economic trading partner with China, take iron ore and university students as just two examples. So, if we are so outraged, why have many only chosen to boycott Huawei products? Is it that the Chinese government might find out that we make naughty comments on a bargains website? Even if any of the spying accusations were true, what impact does that have on us living in Australia? I could be wrong, but I don't think we have an extradition treaty with China. Meanwhile, there is an Australian/Ecuadorian citizen in the UK about to be extradited to the US for charges of treason from a country he is not a citizen of.
Please tell me how any of this makes sense.
Please tell me how any of this makes sense.
It cant make sense to someone who starts the statement with this…
Do we really care about what China is doing within its own borders? Our country is a strong economic trading partner with China
For those who don't care what happens to the humans within that country, and cares mostly about the money lost by not being obedient we have no conversation to be had
@cloudy: That doesn't answer Kahn's question.
You think that's not how it works in America?
How do you think Ivanka got her position in the white House?
You think that's not how it works in America?
How do you think Ivanka got her position in the white House?
Ah yes, obfuscate the discussion with random USA problems, of which there are PLENTY!
But, as much as Trump would like, he can not just unload the military on protesters right now because they have a system that prevents such abuse (thank god). The CCP has unfettered powers to do anything, look at the millions of incarceration of the muslims in the north west. Literally takes a battering rams on the mosques and detain them all and put up facedes for the others to see nothing is going on (like we're stupid). Trump would love such powers, yet Xi has them and has put in place in their constitution the ability to stay in power until he dies. (oh boy is that Trumps dream too)
Any other random pieces of thought you wanna spew out?
@cloudy: if you want to compare USA and China in light of how they handle Muslim population here how it should be objectively compared.
USA war of terrorism and invasion of Iraq starts with an excuse. Wrong excuse in terms of Iraq which ended up hundred thousands killed. As with Afghanistan, Pakistan and now Iran, apparently none of those countries has sent any jihadis to New york in 911. Yet total death on these wars reach 500.000 includes many many innocent citizens, kids woman olds etc. It then hardened middle eastern right wings to then transform to Islamic State monster and many spring rebellion that until now has killed millions of muslims in the region. All those is because several Saudi Arabian (close US partner in region) kill 2500 people in New York. Any harsh words or military movement to Saudi Arabia? if those people is of chinese origin, i wonder what would have happened?
China internment of 1 million Uyghur starts with periods of violent outbreak in the region where times and again riot against Han Ethnic and Police happens. Because of USA and a decade full of rising muslim bigotry due to many Holywood film and tension in Middle east due to USA Invasion, many muslim starts to reject authority. Happens in Malaysia, Phillipines south island and Indonesia as well. These young muslim feels for their muslim brothers being killed one sidedly by American but their country does not help nor decries the inhumane war.
China Internment of 1 Million Uyghur does not and will not kill hundred thousand uyghur communities. There is not a record of mass killing in the Uyghur regions. There is however strong push to eradicate Uyghur identity and muslim piety in the region.
However, when you look at other countries with many instances of Bombing by muslim terorist such as in Indonesia, Thailand Phillipines etc. Also strong and borderline fanatical push by Chinese Government for social stability. The choice of mass Military movement and civil war in Uyghur area VS mass internemnet of Piety Muslim comes down to very easy choice. combined with technology, strong government and nearly non existant dissenting voice this is seen as the easy choice to re-educate and integrate muslim uyghur to society standard. In a way, despite the strong brain washing program, it is quite similar to what many Democratic Countries such as Malaysia / Indonesia has done to "retrain and reeducate" Islamic State Terorist that come back home except on China scale (Massive scale)
So USA had a muslim extremism problem. They solve it with Bomb, and guns and severe economic sanction which kills many innocents and rob many kids future, they did it in such a scale that kills millions of people in middle east. To rub salt to the wound. they now sanction judges and official of the very court of justice (ICC / international Criminal Court) just because they can.
China also has muslim extremism problem. They solve it with mass internment camp / incarceration camp where they hold a million people, put them to job, re-educate them to better conform to China society needs and at the end of the day will free them all.
Both are bad. but one is worse than the other much much worse. The Uyghurs will someday see light again. they can have job again, probably, the city around them will be built up and provided with jobs to ensure extreme idiology will not flourish. But those afghan, iraqi, pakistan and iran will not be able to see light ever again, their children future is robbed completely. they will become hardened with revenge and will become future terrorist. All the while their cities are still always a rubble left behind by many soldier without any compensation.
If the chinese are not happy with their government. with so many effort and push from international government especially USA. the People of China will already topple their government. But they have not, there are dissenting opinions inside mainland china but most people appreciate the stability that has been offered to them. so why many foreigner is so unhappy with this is beyond me
@antzz: wow, such an essay I would seem rude not to at least acknowledge your response.
I don't intend to debate the finer points, many of which is debatable as no one can truly substantiate the true figures, but i'll take you on your main point.
Which, to summaries as, would you rather be dead (US killings of muslims in the fight of terrorism) or working as a slave with knowledge your mother, your sister or daughter is abused and not allowed to bare any resemblance of your normal way of life or beliefs for as long as you shall live ( Chinese Uyghur right now). I think i'll choose death, though you have made your choice and you're entitled to it.
You probably don't agree on the Uyghur characterisation of their situation, but if you know better please inform Four Corners (I'll happily watch).
If the chinese are not happy with their government. with so many effort and push from international government especially USA. the People of China will already topple their government.
I never said the Chinese were not happy with their government. But why would you bother dissenting when the alternative is death. If I had a choice i'd choose to be happy than to die as well.
Sinophobia is the norm nowadays in light of an increasingly powerful and assertive China.
If America does the spying, then we know at least there's free press.
If we think China does the spying, that then must be true cause an orange monkey is smashing it on Twitter. Evidence is an afterthought.
I actually have a Huawei, rooted it and inspected the firmware for my own purposes. It doesn't do anything nefarious or send anything home
'inspected the firmware' lol what? How can you know what the binaries do.
Exactly this. Did you decompile them and inspect them line-by-line?
Do you think they make it obvious? They're not idiots.
@picklewizard: You don't need to inspect every line to know what it does but yes I actually do read the assembly for important sections. All the Java apps are decompilable so you can read it as code.
I also ripped parts out I didn't like (D.U.B.A.I) and made my own custom ROMs.
Nowadays I'm using OpenKirin anyway, which is entirely opensource.
I do this with every device I buy. I was also the first person to root a Blackberry (Playbook).
@xsacha: Sounds like you're more switched on than the average punter, though I'm a bit skeptical of your claim of "reading the assembly" to determine if the device is phoning home.
I guarantee you your device is phoning home.
In any case, don't forget that backdoors can be (and are) regularly hidden in plain sight in open source: https://securityboulevard.com/2020/05/was-this-huaweis-faile…
Gee, look who was responsible…
@picklewizard: that link you sent I am aware of. It is completely overblown. That guy was acting in his personal capacity on a personal project and the patch was in review. It never made it in to the kernel nor would it have. This happens all the time and it only made the news because it involves a Huawei employee.
Huawei contributes a lot to the Linux kernel in an official capacity (with official Huawei processes). One of their major inclusions recently, their EROFS, as a read-only filesystem. They also have an alternative open-source kernel, LiteOS, that they developed.
I can guarantee you it isn't phoning home :) I often run packet sniffing on my phone, not only to reverse-engineer proprietary protocols but also to rewrite frontends for apps I want to use.
My work involves using devices with the highest performance in deep learning, which has been (for the past few years) Huawei. Recently, Dimensity chips have been performing well too (Oppo Reno 3). See: http://ai-benchmark.com/ranking.html . Until such time Huawei stops performing so well, I will continue to use their phones.
You'd be surprised how little and how simple the code on a phone is. The parts that are actually touched by the manufacturer. It is nowhere near as complex as you'd imagine, especially as the majority is open-source and most of the drivers come from third-party manufacturers which you can compare against drivers from other phones like Samsung and find them to be 100% identical.
In fact the most unique and complicated parts are the deep learning models (provided by Megvii).
If you want companies that actually avoid opensource firmware, make protected binary blobs and purposefully install backdoors on custom chips you do not have access to. Look no further than Cisco and Intel.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/18/ex-google-ceo-eric-schmidt-n…
So you are saying that some of the most famous people in the tech industry are bullshiting. But you, a random person on the Internet, can ensure that Huawei phones will never send any data to the Chinese government?
I'm a software engineer, and I highly doubt that you can inspect every possible things in the firmware.
Just look at how US officials were able to bypass Apple's security system after the Boston marathon bombing. That was after they put on a spectacle of asking Apple to provide a backdoor (which was refused) when they didn't need their help. So ask yourself: is it a concern of Chinese spying or a concern of US spying?
Well, writing it out like they just casually bypassed Apple's security is a little bit of an understatement. It cost the US government a reported $1.3m, and they have barely anything to show for it. And there is a huge difference here - they had physical access to the phone. If they had physical access to a Huawei they'd have cracked that thing pretty damned quickly.
Lets be honest here, whether the US government had a backdoor or not they still would have made a show of paying for it to be unlocked as they would never share that publicly.
No, there is no backdoor, dude.
That's how I read it as well. Some US senators doing some scare mongering about what "could" happen, but zero evidence that it actually does.
Huawei became became better and cheaper than Applesung. Then the american harvey norman called the president and they got rid of the competition. And they needed a story to sell this to the masses. And your elected govt is spying on you much more than you’ll ever know.
Forget Huawei phones and start looking at Optus. All their Enterprise/Corporate customers are using Huawei branded routers and other networking gear. The very things the government has tried so hard to prevent being used in NBN and 5G are being handed out all over by Optus.
Optus actually uses Nokia modems for 5G. They would have used Huawei (TPG and Vodafone wanted to as well) if they had the option because it is more advanced.
I didn't mean to say that they were using Huawei for 5G. Simply the government doesn't want Huawei in our telecommunications and yet Optus are proudly installing them everywhere.
Because they're a better product, it's basic economics.
Is there proof that Huawei is spying? No.
If it possible that they can? Yes.
If they are spying, will the community at large be unaware? I feel that if they are spying, There will be techies out where who will find out. However it could be a Order66 like incident.
If they are, are they controlled by the CCP? Yes.
I think people forget our own government was caught red handed spying on all our smaller Asian island neighbours….
In China there are no truly private companies. More than 70% of companies have CCP embedded elements in their structure. The goal is to get to about 90% of all companies.
These companies can be compelled to do anything the government wants them to do.
Huawei's workforce is stacked with highly connected CCP members and former intelligence and military members. They are simply put an intelligence collecting operation of the CCP government.
More than 70% of companies have CCP embedded elements in their structure. The goal is to get to about 90% of all companies.
I think you just remembered the exact opposite…
Currently around 70% of Chinese industrial output is now produced by non-state controlled business firms, and over 80% of the industrial workforce in China is now employed in the private sector.
Depends on whether you want the spying to be done for the US or for China.