Do Huawei Phones Pose a Security Threat?

I was comparing a Huawei Mate 30 Pro to a Samsung S20 Plus and noticed there is a lot of concerns that Huawei as a company are involved in spying and commercial espionage.

I found this article and it seems very compelling.
https://www.theverge.com/2019/3/17/18264283/huawei-security-...

Do you believe this is a concern or just scare mongering?

Poll Options

  • 344
    Yes they are spying
  • 161
    No stop worrying
  • 9
    Who is Huawei

Comments

      • +3

        Sorry but you lack reading comprehension.
        I am clearly talking about Chinese committees that are embedded in private companies. Not the economic output of companies as you have referenced.

        That article is also pro china propaganda that completely ignores the party committees that are embedded in over 70% of SOE and private companies.
        That percentage is significantly higher in internet and tech companies.
        Even foreign companies that set up in partnerships in China have these party committees embedded within them so they can be controlled.

        China even recently brought in a new regulation that the party committees will be held above the board of directors and must be involved in all major decisions and execute the will of the part.

        Australian government also considers that all private companies are CCP controlled now when it comes to important matters like investment.

        https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/no-such-thing-as-...

        "…officials set a target in August 2018 to have cells inside 95% of private businesses. There was a need, the survey said, to retain the revolutionary spirit inside the companies as their ownership was handed on to the next generation."

        https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/jul/25/china-business...

        https://thediplomat.com/2018/12/chinas-private-sector-is-und...

        https://www.theneweconomy.com/business/china-dispatches-gove...

        https://madeinchinajournal.com/2019/04/18/against-atrophy-pa...

        • +3

          fair point. Let me tell you why there are many communists in private companies.

          As far as I know, in Chinese universities, domestic students are likely to be communist party members because it's mandatorily required if they want to get an easy job with stable income from state-owned companies or government bodies after graduation, right like uni graduates want to get a job from Auspost, TELSTRA, big 4 banks in Aus. I would like to say no one really believes in communism sh*t.

          Joining the party is very easy: copy some paper about the understanding of communism, attend a few lectures and party meetings, vow. bang! you are a qualified communist and you are qualified to apply for those jobs. It's more likely some people go to church for free food and goods, not for God.

          Then if they didn't make it to the big state-own companies, they can only go to private companies. But it's not easy to get rid of the membership because the party will not accept it. Luckily being a member doesn't cost much, the fee is like less than $20/year and one can get some freebie when going the party meeting (free toilet paper, laundry powder, soaps)…maybe in your eyes, they are like warriors staring western countries hatefully but according to my experience that's just your imagination (I'm not a member cuz I didn't go to uni in China and never wanna job from state-owned companies but I have seen many of my classmates in high school are party members)

          • +1

            @ToTheMoon: Cool perspective from the Chinese side, ty.

            Doesn't change the fact that these people are still party members and may be called upon for the party when needed. Perhaps willingly, perhaps with some pressure.

            • +1

              @Michael15286: Well, that's a reasonable concern. I got you.

              Party members who work in public facilities or government bodies are required to "sacrifice" first when need, this is true in some conditions even now. For example, during COVID19 sometimes doctors and nurses will need to work overtime in public hospitals, then who is party member will come first. As a trade, they will be prioritised on promotions and salary increases.

              However, in private businesses, no one even bothers to ask if someone is a party member. (fun fact, Huawei people do OT severely and this is company culture. My friend in Huawei works from 9 am to 11 pm, 6 days per week, and got double pay, plus 2 months salary as a bonus by EOFY, eventually, it's like A$80k~90k before tax per year).

              If you are saying whether they will get a machine gun and sacrifice them "that way" when there is a warfare, hell no…first there IS "military training" for young people, but it's just about 7 days, teaching how to march at parade step and teaching some history (of course just what happened from CCP perspective). This just happens once in a lifetime when one goes to college (yes, no college, no this training). There used to be some hardcore military training to young people decades ago as the 1960s, almost everyone was taught how to use a gun (heard from my father). From the 1980s, the government confiscated all guns from people to establish a more civilised, peaceful society so no more gun training after that.

              Since 1990s, CCP implemented the one-child policy, people cherish their only child very much. Since that, training is just for a formality. If a student is not feeling well, or is a girl on a period, or is sick or disabled, or is able to find any solid reason, then it doesn't have to attend that 7 days training.

              Party is more like the role of a trade union to ordinary people. My grandma is a party member, she is 80 years old now. What can she do if the party calls her? The meaning of the party for her is she is happy when getting a ~A$60 gift card on her birthday and Elders Day from the party, which is a great deal to her.

              • +1

                @ToTheMoon: It's always good to hear perspectives of people who live in different countries because it helps me see what is propaganda from my side, what's technically real but overblown, what's true for most people, and, how propoganda from their own government affects them.

                It's interesting to hear about those crazy hours worked by your friend, but a 80k-90k salary would be pretty crazy too in China.

                I didn't mean pressure by gunpoint but rather pressure socially (ie friendships and relationships) and through business pressure. It's no secret the CCP uses it's economic power to its advantage giving loans and subsidies to its friends and starving its enemies of business via tarrifs and regulations. Even on a personal level I still believe if you refuse a request from the party line there would be consequences in your life.

                But still the gift your grandma receives sounds nice, an admirable trait many asian societies share is a great respect for their elders.

                • +1

                  @Michael15286: Totally agree. In most cases, no one would want to know the fact and people just believe in what they like to believe. That's how some media play - brainwash people with news from one perspective. That's exactly what is happening in both western countries and China. In China, lower-class people who watch TV every day might still believe in "only CCP can save China" and "be aware of every foreigner, they might be sent by western countries to spy on us"; in Australia, some people still believe in "5G is contagious" and "Chinese are spying on us". The cognitive gap is everywhere, even the Internet is able to fix it but not everyone is getting it.

                  80-90k salary is kind of common in tier 1 cities (like Beijing, Shanghai) since many jobs in finance, IT, entertainment often offer a competitive salary. Comparing living in Australia, the avg living cost is lower (buy local food, live in a remote suburb, take public transports), but living a quality life is expensive(buy import food, live in fancy apartments, drive European cars). The income difference is bigger than here.

                  Manipulating other countries through tariffs and policies is not rare, considering there are countless examples: the US vs Cuba, the US vs Iran, the US vs Japan in history. Personally, I think it becomes more common in history where there was tension between countries, and in recent years when anti-globalisation is thriving. No one is doing that when peaceful and everyone is doing when there is a trend.

                  Saying "No" to the party is absolutely safe and ok. People call state-owned companies or governmental bodies jobs "iron rice bowl" because they are more stable, comparing to the "ceramic rice bowl" which is a normal job. Government job and state-owned company jobs are normally easier, no KPI, no punch time card, no OT, seldom layoffs;) but pay less, people who like it and have spent a lot of effort to get it will never risk turning their managers down for nothing, and people who don't like bureaucracy or want better pay or are simply rebels will not even bother to apply for the job. One can easily give up an "iron rice bowl" job and turn to private business or start his own business, but it's not easy to get an "iron rice bowl" job tho - a lot of people are competing to get in.

    • Oficially: Largest private conglomeration the govt claims CCP free: HNA group! Totally bankrupt and under total CCP control! The non believers will wake up one day!

  • +14

    Do Huawei Phones Pose a Security Threat?

    No. Huawei comes delivered with the latest government security firmware.

    • You're half right.

      Yes… they do pose a security threat.

      And yes you're right, they are delivered with the latest government security firmware. Chinese Government firmware.

    • Source or reference please.

  • +3

    Huawei phones can hack.into other phones using 5g, no one is safe

    run for the hills people

    game over man game.over

    • +2

      is that an alien 2 reference?

  • +3

    Worked for Huawei Australia for 2 years
    ….. no

    • +5

      Your answer may be correct (or not), but your evidence is worthless; that's a type IV error

      You've just proven to us that you're not involved in hardware or software design of their phones or anything else.

      • https://xkcd.com/2303/

        OMG that's fantastic.

        Type IIII error cracked me up!

        Cheers

      • this is absolute gold!!

      • +1

        And yet anyone has yet to provide evidence of spying software on Huawei phones…

        Yet the NSA admits they monitor EVERYONE.

  • Is there any phone that is NOT made in Chyna?
    Worrying about the CCP monitoring your behaviour or phone use is hard to imagine if you think about all the phones that are currently in use.
    Go for it… unless you can find a phone not made in Chyna.

    • GINA**

  • +2

    Lol… No, evil gov spying. Yes, Commercial espionage. But anything u have ever signed up to any social media your on. Any Mobile phone brand you have had. Any google search u have made.. all collecting your data. All trying to sell u stuff.

  • +2

    i'd say no brand is better than the other, however we bias our political "allies"

  • +2

    involved in spying and commercial espionage.

    To be fair both sides are probably spying on your devices, the difference though is that if China is spying on your usage, you know they're not going to share that information with anyone.

  • +24

    Yes, of course Huawei is threatening the intelligence world.
    The Five Eyes used to spy on all the communications using US and European devices. Suddenly they are not able to spy on Huawei devices. Isn't it a great threat to NSA, CIA, MI6, ASIO?

    • +11

      Bingo! In this case, the words "threat to our national security" is code for "threat to our own spying powers". The problem is more likely to be that Huawei has too much security integrity. If we can't coerce them to allow us to spy, we'll just accuse them of being on the wrong team.

  • +2

    Huawei has been the company getting the most attention as they are the largest provider of Telecoms infrastructure globally, and are potentially susceptible to Chinese Government "persuasion", but the same is true of any Chinese company, you will have very limited choices if you avoid Chinese made phones.

    From a Government perspective, I can definitely see why it's a concern with Huawei providing infrastructure. For a personal user, I don't think the Chinese Government care enough about you for it to be a concern.

  • +6

    Hi, I'm on a huawei p30 right now. Ching ping just said that the data he collects is anonymous and he won't hold you personally accountable for anything.

    Just shoot me any questions, if I say them out loud he usually gets back to me fairly quick

  • +2

    I wouldn't get a Huawei phone myself mainly due to issues / potential issues with the US embargo on them as a company and if that would cause problems done the road for Google products including Android etc. Not a fan of Samsung phones either, I'd be looking at Nokia's like the new 5.3.

    From a job perspective I wouldn't use Huawei routers & switches and other networking equipment because there's been some very damning reports about the coding security practices and their security patch remediation practices being quite behind the times. eg using really old versions of open source products in their devices with known vulnerabilities. When researches pointed it for a certain product Huawei patched that product but not anything else using the same bit of open source code.

  • +6

    ALL pones pose a security threat… all your data is kept by the vassal got and sent off to America for analysis.

    STOP being sucked in by the narrative thread debasing China. It is you that this propaganda is specifically targeting… the ill informed.

    • +1

      Don't forget Google Ads and Facebook Ads. Ill informed people rate the highest conversion rate for online sales, hit that AfterPay like no tomorrow. Spend the money you don't have lol .

  • Can a Huawei employee view the photos and videos I take on my phone's camera? That's what I want to know.

      • +13

        Please provide a link to said search.
        My searches mainly shows USA SAYING that they have evidence of backdoors. But they have not shown any evidence.

        • -5

          I get what you mean but you also have to take into account that they can't share the research as this would allow other people to use the method to gain access to other people devices. You can look at the past CVE reportings. But even if you had access to the code would you even understand it?

          • +5

            @No Username: So basically you have no proof to back up your assertion?

            • +4

              @AndrewCh: There are CVE reportings. How do you give evidence without it becoming a threat?. And if a tool was ever leaked out would you even know what it is or how to even use it? You need to understand this from an engineering POV. It's like asking a complicated question but you are only allowed to reply with a yes or no answer. There is not enough context and time to explain to the person who is clueless about how electronics and software works.

              Understanding these types of topics will be hard if you are just a consumer and haven't had experience with PCB design, software and security engineering. There will always be people who just want to believe what they want even if lack knowledge of how the technology works. It's like asking a person who thinks 5G towers can transmit Coronavirus on how it is scientifically possible.

              I guess a simpler explanation could be based on this question, How do we really know when our webcam is on and off. Can the status light be manipulated? The evidence would only be present in the schematic. But I'm 100% sure no OEM would publish this as it would open up vulnerabilities and allow for IP theft.

              • +3

                @No Username: So is there any actual scientific agency (E.g. CSIRO) or proper government agency (E.g. department of defense) that has actually found evidence that Huawei consumer phones maliciously snoop and collect data that it should not? If so please link it
                This evidence should be very easy to ascertain based on traffic patterns.

                I'm not interested in what some uninformed US senator thinks "might" happen.

                Full disclosure, I don't own, nor do I have near term plans to buy a Huawei or otherwise Chinese phone, so I haven't been researching this very much at all.
                However all the "evidence" I have ever seen presented is that it could technically be possible for Huawei consumer products to have malicious effects, rather than any solid evidence that they do

          • +2

            @No Username: Its like saying you have "Blind Faith" in what the US says. Isn't that the very definition of what cults are?

    • Upload them and we'll let you know if we've seen them floating around ;)

  • -3

    Yes both on a software and hardware level. There is a reason why many countries are banning Huawei communication devices. They may not be actively spying on you but they can if they want. Traffic data can also be spoofed but what's the point if the backdoor is on a chip working separately. If you look at a few months ago the AUS GOVT started taking down CCTV made by Hikvision in fear of the CCP watching everything.

    • +2

      Vulnerabilities exist in all hardware/software (Huawei/Nokia/others). Case example, Windows and Linux has been around for ages and still has quite a lot of vulnerabilities found. So your argument is rubbish unless you can prove that the vulnerability was "intentionally" builtin. If not, then its just pure racism/bias based on it being a Chinese company. Evidence is King, if there is none presented then all accusations are unsubstantiated #fakenews.

    • Hikvision behind a proper setup VLAN and firewall is still more cheaper than other solution which still send or ping some server to either get time (A Local NTP server can fix this) or firmware update etc.

      Why do IP camera need to communicate outside their own network? Remote view? just setup VPN or secure NVR software. I guess government is too lazy and just want to view their camera via public RSTP stream link.

  • +2

    The blind faith that our own government isn't spying on us is pretty amusing.
    If they have evidence of Huawei dodgyness then put up or shut up.

    • I call our Prime Minister SloMo for a reason ;-)

  • Huawei is probably the most scrutinized company in past few years yet there has not been a single piece of evidence showing Huawei installed backdoor or spying on communications. I think anyone claiming Huawei is spying on us is humiliating the intelligence organizations in the western world.

  • +2

    If you're worried about Huawei phone then you have to worry about all other Chinese networking products. Modem, router, TV box, smart TV?.
    I dont buy US propaganda.

    • +1

      Absolutely, the US has been known to cheat/lie/bully their way to influence their allies and the world. Only believe real evidence provided by truly independent and respected people or organisations. If Huawei was truly a threat, why did it take so long for other nations to ban them from 5G (if they even did so)? Was it because it took that long for the US to pressure/threaten them into submission?

      • +1

        US has been known to cheat/lie/bully

        And China is sooooo innocent of cheating/lying/bullying?

  • +4

    Yes, we should be worried. Between 2009-2011, Huawei had "hidden backdoors" in its telecoms equipment that could have allowed the CCP/Chinese company access to private and public networks.

    From 2012-2017 (five years), China spied on African government officials by bugging the building that they "gifted" the African nation.

    Recently, Xiaomi was extracting user metadata which correlates with user habits, without their knowledge or consent, to be sent back to the CCP/Chinese company.

    Can you see a pattern here…?

  • +1

    USA already has everything about you. Does it really matter if China does as well?

    • +5

      If this doesn't send shivers down your spine, what does?

      ABC News In-Depth: Exposing China's digital dystopian dictatorship.

      It was surprising when the Chinese citizen said that he believes China will be "democratic" as promised by Xi. Is Xi's proclamation to the people true?

      • +7

        Hahaha, Edward Snowden… remember him for exposing the US's spying regime etc? All nations are the same just that there is an extreme bias in the West against China because

        1. They're not white
        2. They're not American
        3. They're a threat to American domination
        4. We're the US's puppy dog. Whether its true or not, but we sure act that way.
        • -1

          All nations are the same

          Yet, what's different in China compared to the "freer" world?

          Did you even watch the ABC In-Depth report? What did you think of it?

          bias in the West against China because they're not white

          I'm part Chinese. I'm pro-democracy. I love the west (Australian version, not American) because it's my home and I share the same values.

          If you don't like the way of the "western" (democracy, free speech) things, why don't you move to China? North Korea?

  • Company I work for (multinational) has banned Huawei and Xiaomi phones from their BYOD policy citing security reasons. They will not allow their MDM to be installed on any such devices. Sucks for me as I had a Mi9 at the time, but I guess they'd be doing it for a reason.

    • Damn, I have a Xiaomi phone too :(

  • I honestly think this is not a question ordinally people need to worry about. Simple logic, if Huawei's phone has any security issue, they will not be allowed for sale in Europe or Australia. Other than that, they only look conspiracy against the CCP.

  • +1

    Do some research, most people just tow the US/Australia or "white" line when it comes to China Phones. Google/Facebook/Apple spy too so what's the difference unless you're a criminal and actually have something of relevance to hide. Remember Edward Snowden and Julian Assange? US or China phones or any other manufacturer's phone…. they're all the same except for your own perceived biases. Remember the Huawei's previous phones were accused of being spy phones because they were capable to 50X zoom? Well, Samsung's S20 phones are 100X zoom and wasn't accused of being "spy phones".

  • It's much more easy to spy on 4G network than on a single phone. Be smart.

  • -1

    If you use a US company phone, I'd say they will spy on you so that they can sell more things to you and justify it by saying "tailoring ads to you"
    If you use a China company phone, I'd say they will spy on you so that they try to stop anti-communist china sentiments and justify it by saying its for "peace, freedom, justice, and security.."

    Having said that, I'm secretly gunning for Xi JinPing to create the first galactic empire

  • I doubt (what a freaking name, almost every time keep forgetting, why not call it wwi, or Yi phone) anyways as long as you diy the phone, install your own os onto the phone most certainly not.

    But if your the person who buys a phone with what's preinstalled and relies on the updates from that vendor (like apple, Samsung ect) then don't buy wuawai, not because of the security issues but because the phones seriously bricked.

    Until harmony os builds it's empire we can all continue the conversation.

    But as of now the phone is bricked if you are just a average consumer, but outside that realm of warranty and risk, hell no these phones are really powerful on a custom designed DIY level.

    Did anyone here about 60 minutes state Pete evens media celebrity say bill gates created the covid 19, if that's true society is going to this place.
    https://youtu.be/BBvIweCIgwk
    And no 5g didn't create covid19.

  • Once you travel out of the country to Asia, you are connected to Huawei equipment. So what your gonna do? They basically dominate the Asia market, with the exception of Japan and SKorea.

  • +3

    Most of the actually-valid accusations of spying I've seen have been more about stealing patents, which isn't very "involved" spying it's just China's well-known lack of interest to prosecute their own country for foreign patent interests. Then the west claims "ahh, they stole our patent! That information came from spying!" I mean, I guess sharing industry secrets and selling them back to the country of origin amounts to spying if you want to think of it like that. But it's not the biggest deal if you're not a multinational patent holder losing money on your designs.

    But this idea that Jinping is listening in on your phone calls is fluff.

    In terms of backdoors to their databases and systems - that is to say, not your phone, but any data you hold on say, a Huawei-owned server… well, we shouldn't be surprised they have backdoors there - it's standard practice for all cloud operators to have a backdoor. Apple does. Google does. And most governments require it, if not explicitly, then implicitly by routine search warrants.

    Ironically, despite the "concern" your data is probably safer in China. Will you be prosecuted as an Australian citizen under Chinese law? No. Will Australia be easily able to prosecute you if your data is in China and they have to get it? No. It's almost a win-win.

    And this is why the government is so concerned. They want backdoors, but they want them accssible by the 5 eyes.

  • But let's be honest. The USA does too.

    • +2

      You're attacking a "straw man". The OP wasn't asking if the US and Chinese governments are spying on their citizens.

      The question is: "Do Huawei phones pose a security threat?" It's about the company.

      The argument is that, yes, they pose a threat because Chinese companies, by default, surrender data to the CCP (government) upon request. Also, in contrast to apple (American company) for example, Tim Cook refused to grant the US government access to its user's data. Western companies will still fight for individual liberties.

      If no, what's your argument?

      • I thought my answer was clear. China stealing your data is nothing new.

        No argument, just trying to say everyone does. I don't understand what your point is actually? Except for attacking me. Hahaha.

        • Do you know what a "straw man" is?

          Except for attacking me

          hahaha. Where?

  • -2

    Australians trust the Chinese government much more than their own government, so whether or not Huawei, an affiliate of the PLA spies on them is a non issue. Xi can protect Australia far better than Morrison or Shorten can.

    In terms of what Trump is doing to the US, by comparison the CCP offers stable government and safer neighbourhoods - not to mention less police shootings and lower incidences of random crime. We should opt in to become a Chinese self governing overseas dependency.

    Australia is living on Chinese money now, not India’s, not the UKs, so people just need to accept that and move on.

    Huawei is fine really.

  • Buy hardware and install an open-source operating system on the phone.

  • Most of the responses:

    Yes they are spying

    are in fact sarcastic. Op, don't buy into it.

  • +4

    Has anyone mentioned.

    Huawei = Chinese put together (US) hardware + Android (US) maybe Chinese and American spyware
    Samsung = South Korea put together (US) hardware + Android (US) maybe only American spyware

    Either way someone is spying on you through the OS or the hardware. Unless you work in a sensitive job or high profile it probably doesn't matter.

    • +4

      America spying on us is less of a threat that China spying on us. America is our military ally and shares common beliefs and customs with our very way of life.

      There are NO similarities to the way the CCP rules over their citizens with an iron fist. It's a dictatorship, except the populous has been brainwashed and browbeaten into thinking the "China First" policy is for the betterment of everyone. Their populous honestly believes the rest of the world is inferior to them, and at the same time a threat to them.

      So there's a big difference to the 'indifference' you're displaying.
      China is a threat to our way of life. The USA is not.

      • +1

        While I agree China and USA are different… if we're making generalisations Americans do believe in American Exceptionalism is for the betterment of everyone and that the rest of the world is inferior to them and at the same time a threat to them.

      • +3

        China is a threat to our way of life. The USA is not.

        There is, however, increasing attention on China’s announcement last week that it would immediately allow barley imports from the US, which was seen as a measure to meet commitments in the first phase of Beijing’s trade deal with Donald Trump. Article here

        Believe what you will.

        America is our military ally and shares common beliefs and customs with our very way of life.

        America sees us as an ally when it suits them. Look at how they treat their NATO allies here

        "China First" policy is for the betterment of everyone

        Did you copy that from Trump's America First?

        Their populous honestly believes the rest of the world is inferior to them, and at the same time a threat to them.

        Same with America.

        Australia is just a pawn to be used when the powers see fit. Don't get confused that Australia might be lucky to have sided with the winning team and share the spoils but there is in now way Australia is getting more than the leader is willing to give.

        • +4

          Your narrative is based on trade issues. I'm talking about the very real threat by China in global domination, in any military, economic, and cultural measure you can think of.

          And in world war, you can bet your LIFE that the UK, USA, NZ, and Australia will ALWAYS be on the same team.

          China's silk road initiative is the first step in many others since taken.
          Bleat as much as you like that I sound like Trump, I don't give a hoot.
          I hate the man- complete waste of oxygen.

          But China is a threat. The biggest threat the world has faced since Germany and Japan in the 1940's.

          And none of your analogies of grand diplomacy where the USA picks and chooses allies confuses anyone.
          Trade and diplomacy is one thing. War is something entirely different. And China is coming.

          But you somehow think we should side with China as the "winning side"??
          If you truly believe that, that's positively disgusting.
          Unless of course the mother country to you is not Australia at all?

          • +7

            @UFO: You need to get out from under your tin foil hat.

            America recognition of PRC under Nixon and following US administration appeasing China for profit is why the world is at this point.

            Nazi Germany is because UK appeased Hitler. Imperial Japan because Americans thought the Japanese were incapable inferior race.

            Stop peddling lies like: China just wonders in unasked for invasion. America enabled China to be where it is today, US recognised China then rest of world towed the line. Just like US created 9/11 by funding the Afghanis to fight the Russians.

            But you somehow think we should side with China as the "winning side"??

            Read again what I said without rose tinted glasses

            If you truly believe that, that's positively disgusting.

            Disgusting is fine choice of words if you believe or advocating war is coming. Your ranting is a bit revolting in it believes some how China magically came up with the capital to build a big military without earning it from Westerners buying their exports. Maybe you should stop people in the street telling them their Nikes are destroying democracy. Chinese government can't make Nike put a factory in China. Western countries literally handed to China the means to dominate the world. Talking about buyers remorse. Western countries should have worked out a 40 year change of mind return policy.

            Unless of course the mother country to you is not Australia at all?

            It is this blind patriotism, about us, them, the other that gets people into wars. Don't think for a second successive Australian / UK / US governments have not crawled up to China for profits. Not everyone is clean. US prosecute whistle blowers such as Edward Snowden and Chelsea Manning. I am not here to start an argument with you but I can see your slanted views.

            Stop talking about "motherland," it is a concept of patriotism mostly deployed by the Russian Communists. You try to drum up patriotism by using terms from politics you dislike.

            And in world war, you can bet your LIFE that the UK, USA, NZ, and Australia will ALWAYS be on the same team.

            History lesson. WWII American supplied equipment to the UK was in the form of a loan. The UK only finished paying the loan back in the 1990s. Yet Europe didn't have to pay back the billions as part of the Marshall plan and Japan didn't need to pay back cost of reconstruction. You think Australia and US free trade deal is just because we share common cultures? No. It is payback for all the blood spilled during all the wars from Korea, Vietnam, Gulf Wars, Afghanistan etc. No such thing as a free lunch in America. I don't know if your concept of team is spill some blood and I will drop you a few bucks. Sounds a bit mercenary to me.

            • +2

              @netjock:

              tin foil hat

              How is it "paranoia" when it's actually true. China plans and intends to dominate the world: article, typical Chinese bullying of Asian neighbours.

              Don't think for a second successive Australian / UK / US governments have not crawled up to China for profits

              Yep. There's that element of greed and/or easy money. China was able to join the WTO in 2001, enabled by the US.

              There was also the element of naivety. The West didn't (and perhaps still don't, at least not yet) fully understand how China thinks and operates. They were wishful that helping China to develop economically would also prod China towards democracy. Well, they were wrong. Very wrong. China (under the CCP direction) has grown into a monster that wants to hurt the world.

              Then a blessing in disguise happened: covid-19. It revealed China and the world can finally see the monster that they helped to create. As a result, it's not too late to change course. The free world needs to know how to deal with a non-transparent and strategic bully.

              It is this blind patriotism, about us, them

              How does the CCP brainwash its "comrades"? What do kids learn in CCP-directed schools? Chinese and Uighur children alike?

              I don't think the poster above is a "patriot" in the sense that it's Aussies 1st and Aussies against everyone else. It's more us (the free world) vs. the CCP (authoritarian-dictator regime). It's an opposition and a fear to an anti-democracy ideology and government that threatens our way of life. Australia = multi-cultural and multi-ethnic. Probably why we have such great food and options! Not everyone is as keen nor comfortable with the idea of the CCP breathing down their necks, including those with Chinese heritage.

              • +1

                @bananamacbook:

                It's an opposition and a fear to an anti-democracy ideology and government that threatens our way of life.

                Simply put it is exactly the same tool that Iran, North Korea, Russia (USSR) before that and China says to its citizens about other countries (mainly America).

                I said. Look under the surface and you'll find out our way of life is built on false premise. We've been sold a dud. IF we kept them vs us like US & Cuba then you won't really have this living beyond our means dependent on authoritarian regimes for cheap products.

                It is living under a tin foil hate that you have built. USA built this China problem. It isn't like China magically appeared and became a threat. Even Godzilla came from a hole opened by people. It is like Godzilla came riding on a magical unicorn.

                IF you really wanted to go back to this China problem it is when UK, US, Germany, France instigated the opium wars. Because Chinese was happy enough fighting amongst themselves with spears, swords and used gun powder for fireworks.

                I am not helping anyone, just highlighting people think it is simple. The other poster couldn't even go back pre WWII which was caused by UK / French and US oppression of Germany after WWI which lead to WWII.

                • +1

                  @netjock:

                  the same tool that Iran, North Korea, Russia (USSR) before that and China says to its citizens about other countries (mainly America).

                  Nothing has changed. China has "modified" the (now ideological) cold-war content to perhaps be less hateful towards the free world, but are instilling an utmost patriot mindset amongst its citizens. A Chinese "Nationalist education" if you will. Propaganda and brainwashing are the tools of the CCP. China is now adopting a more insidious approach, and to plant it's "wolf-warrior" (two-faced) agents in the free world to undermine our way of life.

                  I found these two Chinese men's take on China's brainwashing effects interesting (the first 2 minutes).

                  In contrast, the "West" education has its students learning a different kind of identity politics. Are you in?

                  We've been sold a dud. IF we kept them vs us like US & Cuba then you won't really have this living beyond our means dependent on authoritarian regimes for cheap products

                  I don't follow your logic. Are you critiquing democracy (which Australia adopts a representative democratic model), or free speech, or mismanaged capitalism, or mismanaged foreign policies, or missteps in strategy? Which "dud" were we sold?

                  It is living under a tin foil hate that you have built.

                  I asked earlier: How is it paranoia when it's actually true?

                  You can keep denying it all you want. I'm interested to understand why you are in denial of China's intentions and plans to take over the world?

                  IF you really wanted to go back to this China problem it is when UK, US, Germany, France instigated the opium wars

                  Why is that?

                  • @bananamacbook: As I have said. Not here to have a fight with you or re-educate you. But history is key in understanding what is going on here.

                    I asked earlier: How is it paranoia when it's actually true?

                    It is actually true but you're living in a house of horrors that you built. Australia is now worried about manufacturing security because Australian companies closed all the factories and sent manufacturing in China in the first place with help of the Australian government by opening free trade agreements. No point paranoid about how bad the wolf is when you gave birth to it in the first place.

                    I don't follow your logic. Are you critiquing democracy (which Australia adopts a representative democratic model), or free speech, or mismanaged capitalism, or mismanaged foreign policies, or missteps in strategy? Which "dud" were we sold?

                    I don't take ideological sides. The dud is our quality of life is based on outsourcing to an authoritarian dictatorship. Now we realise that it is temporary unless we give it all back.

                    I'm interested to understand why you are in denial of China's intentions and plans to take over the world?

                    Did I deny? All I am pointing out is outcomes are caused by actions taken and it just so happens that Nixon's recognition of China and rest of the US allies towing the line lead up to this road. If you really want to understand who go little Godzilla into mega sized threat is not China itself but western allies who kept on feeding it.

                    Why is that?

                    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" famous quote from George Santayana

                    • @netjock:

                      history is key in understanding what is going on here

                      Which one? And why?

                      I'm not interested in a re-education. I'm curious about which bit of history you think is relevant to the current situation with China.

                      Why the Opium wars?

                      I don't take ideological sides

                      Everyone leans some way. Even just a little bit. No-one is bias-free.

                      The dud is our quality of life is based on outsourcing to an authoritarian dictatorship… it is temporary unless we give it all back.

                      China's quality of life is based on supplying to and interacting with the free world. They've pretty much embraced capitalism. Does your analysis to China as well?

                      I am pointing out is outcomes are caused by actions taken…threat is not China itself but western allies who kept on feeding it

                      Partial agreement. It's both China and the West contributing to this "China problem".

                      China is an active player. There's no denying that. The threat is China (under the CCP regime) itself. The West is its enabler.

                      • @bananamacbook:

                        Why the Opium wars?

                        Wikipedia

                        I'm curious about which bit of history

                        History is not "bits" to cherry pick. If you don't read enough history you have no idea. Sorry I am not here to re-educate or give you snippets to take snipes at.

                        China's quality of life is based on supplying to free world. They've pretty much embraced capitalism.

                        China's quality of life is enabled by the western world. Western world enabled it and now complains China has too much money to pay for a big military which it is using. Trying to put the genie back in the bottle?

                        China has leveraged Western capitalism to make money. Capitalism is free markets and China's domestic market is not a free market. Non Chinese companies faces many barriers to selling into the China domestic market.

                        • -1

                          @netjock:

                          Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org)

                          Conveniently, the source you provided left out a crucial piece of information that every Chinese citizen knows: The Century of Humiliation, or here, which is shaping how China does trade deals (especially with the US) and partially explains its global ambitions to take over (and hurt) the world.

                          History is not "bits" to cherry pick. If you don't read enough history you have no idea.

                          Agreed. China is just as every bit a colonial power as the "white" guys.

                          The West advanced from the 2nd industrial revolution. China wants to do the same with the digital revolution (3rd industrial revolution).

                          China now wants to profit off the sleepy and dumb West, and extract data. China will impose a (digital) dystopia for control. This is pretty much "1984" by George Orwell, but in real life.

                          China has leveraged Western capitalism to make money… Non Chinese companies faces many barriers to selling into the China domestic market.

                          Yep, it's an asymmetric relationship. China learnt from the Opium wars. Two wrongs make a right, right? 1 + 1 = 0

                          More than that history though, the CCP is out to get the world and hurt everyone in it to attain its vision.

                          Well, I'm interested in seeing what the post-covid changes will be. The West is (hopefully more) awake now.

      • +1

        America is our military ally and shares common beliefs and customs with our very way of life. (…)
        China is a threat to our way of life. The USA is not.

        I beg to differ. Trump is a wannabe dictator and a threat to democracy and everything that we hold dear.

        • We know who Trump likes

          Worst people are the ones who vote for a bad leader but can't change their minds. There is still a lot of support for Trump. I guess it is like the saying "better dead than red" people should worry about Trump causing your early demise than about Chinese coming to get you.

  • iphones and ipads are 100% made in china….

  • +1

    I love Huawei phones their cameras are the best in the business all I can say about those spying what a load of BS you are not so important, if you were some king of so and so kingdom, perhaps but unknowns working class people like you and me - dimes and dozens no one is interested to spy on.

  • +1

    It question if you want your government to watch you or a foreign one. Who will get you trouble first?

  • -2

    This post just goes to prove how successful western media is in inciting bias and racism against all things China.

    • +4

      racism against all things China

      The CCP is a government, not a race

      Huawei is a company, not a race

      • +2

        Yep.

        But the race card is flown very easily these days to try and win support… even if its the enemy flying it.

  • +4

    I'm using a P30… I am far far less concerned about to the Chinese collecting my data than the infinitely more nefarious companies like Apple, Google and Facebook.

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