A girl was apparently mauled to death by dog. Quite shocking!
https://7news.com.au/news/accidents/baby-girl-mauled-to-deat…
The dog attacks are not uncommon in Australia. Not just within house, even if you are walking outside, you can be attacked by astray dog or the dog who managed to escape from the house or unleased itself. The situation could become alarming if you are walking with your kids.
What would you do here to stop the attack?
Stop making yummy babies.
babies make great decoys though. you don't have to outrun the vicious dog as long as you can outrun the baby.
You have some super dark humour, superdarkhumour.
It's not the breeding but the lack of training and socialisation on behalf of the owner that makes a dog attack another person or animal.
Up here in the Territory I've seen plenty of pitbulls that are great family pets but I've also seen some terrible ones. All about the owners.
I agree with you, but due to misuse privileges get removed. Same as guns after Martin Bryant’s misuse in the Port Arthur massacre.
Also it’s been said that no matter how well trained & socialised a fighting dog breed is, the ugly side can always come out
Please don't pretend that the breed of the dog has nothing to do with attacks on children, etc.
Go look at the statistics.
Pit Bulls are responsible for the largest number of attacks and fatalities (60%-70%), even though they are usually less than 10% of dog breeds.
You can get everything from another breed of dog that a pitbull can bring, so I also wonder why people buy them.
@DarwinBoy: Society cannot control the owner, but can restrict the dog breed.
Pitbulls = 66% of fatalities = 6.4% of dogs.
You are welcome to call BS on my statistics.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/09/13/americ…
Now sure the stats are in the US, but I think 12 years of data do suggest there is some issue with that particular breed.
Looks like Pareto's law strikes again.
@Other: Noticed the statement in the article "There is evidence to suggest that owners of vicious dogs are far more likely to have criminal convictions for violent crimes which may go some way towards explaining the Pit Bull’s disproportionate rate of fatal attacks.".
Do you think that there could be a relationship between people who are less likely to train their animal / want a manly/strong/tough guy dog? Like people who are likely to encourage their dogs' aggression are drawn to pitbulls resulting in more pitbulls being owned by irresponsible owners?
people who are likely to encourage their dogs' aggression are drawn to pitbulls
Yes, because pitbulls are more agressive by nature, so fit the wanna-be who owns them
@cameldownunder: Don't be so slack on pit bull owners, who doesn't want a dog that's a cross between Vin Diesel and Jason Statham?
@Katie1Pie: Unfortunately they aren't less likely to train their dogs, they just have different goals for the training
@DarwinBoy: Call bs all you want the stats are there. Some breeds of dogs are more timid than others by virtue of this fact then why wouldn't the opposite be true?
Pitbulls were bred to be fighting dogs. And They have the traits of one aggression, endurance, strength.
Once they have their sights on you they do not (profanity) give up hence the fatalities and awful injuries. No other breed of dog causes injuries like Pitbulls.
@cameldownunder: My 'stats' are from investigating hundreds of dog attacks from 2015 to 2019 in a large metropolitan area that includes pitbulls in the mix of dog breeds.
Pitbulls did not ever over represent other dog breeds in all the investigations I conducted.
I will say again the common denominator for dog attacks was either dog owners who did not care for correct animal trainimg or owners who unintentionally reinforced poor behaviours. The final straw generally been an issue associated with dog containment that allowed the dog to interact with the public and instigate an attack.
I was able to meet Trish McMillan last year who works in the US rehabilitating pitbulls seized from dog fighting rings. Great person to meet and learn from. Would love to have her input with some of the comments here(Google her work).
And to the 4 people (will probbable be more) and other who will wish to neg this comment get some more info then googled stats from America. Comparing us to them in anything is just embarassing.
@DarwinBoy: I thought with a large number of pet owners the stats would be even better.
You keep denying that the lethalness of this dog breed is only because of bad owners.
Well I would argue that Rottweilers would probably have just as many bad owners, yet there are a much lower number of killings (284 vs 45).
2018 stats are even worse showing pitbulls responsible for 72% of killings
https://www.dogsbite.org/dog-bite-statistics-fatalities-2018…
Labradors are much more populous and so there would be a large number of poorly owned labradors, but they have managed to only kill one person in 20 years (I think through infection of the wound, but would have to check).
Also you have not provided any real evidence, just your observation and "investigations" which is basically worth nothing.
Many of the news reports I read (usually with pitbulls attacking toddlers) state that the dog has not shown aggression before, another article pointed to the fact the pitbull had food in its stomach and was kept indoors (meaning someone is feeding it and taking care of it).
The statistics back up the fact these dogs have been breed to fight and hence their bite is much, much worse than other breeds (as they have a history of locking on and do not release).
My guess is that you have some interest in the breed and you wish to protect the breed's reputation. The attitude kind of reminds me of the guy who buried the ashes of his pit bull in his wifes and unborn child's coffin (yes the pitbull killed the wife), just obviously less extreme.
If the average person cannot keep at pitbull, then the breed should be banned for the average person. If the only person who can properly look after a pitbull is a trainer, then a trainer is the only one who should be able to own a pitbull.
i think the pit bull numbers are skewed because there is a small subset of loud, violent dog owners who want loud, violent dogs and the pit bull is their weapon of choice
@Other: let me clarify the dog isn't a weapon by itself but by chaining it up and abusing it constantly they turn it into one
You linked a summery with poor ananlysis.
Here is the CDC article referred to by Forbes:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm
What that shows is large dogs are mostly responsible for deaths and that after 87-88 pitbull deaths decreased.
What started in '87? Pitbull bans.
If you look at the data your articles are based on you will notice that pitbull deaths decrease after the start of bans but dog deaths stay the same:
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00047723.htm#00002…
But the data is rubbish, missing deaths and over reporting. Look at this note under the table:
Data shown only for breeds and crossbreeds involved in four or more fatalities. Each breed contributing to the crossbreed is counted only once.
So there are atleast 9 deaths double reported (the three cross breeds with only 3 deaths), and an unknown amount of deaths ignored.
Further, the editorial note believe there are at least a further 25% of dog deaths unreported and clearly states:
Second, to definitively determine whether certain breeds are disproportionately represented, breed-specific fatality rates should be calculated.
The author states that in '94 there were ~4.3 million dog attacks, ~800,000 requiring medical treatment and in '93/'94 there were ~25 deaths.
But what is the source for this data? https://injuryprevention.bmj.com/content/injuryprev/2/1/52.f…
And that article states there are approximately 20 annual fatal dog bites, not the 10 to 35 reported when each part of a cross breed is counted as a separate death. The Author should know, they are the reference for dog death statistics
I am not paying for J.J. Sacks' other report (same link as last) that reportedly actually contains information and not just approximations and misrepresentations (that CDC table is very limited in it's usability).
Buuutttt dogsbite.org
Is not a credible source. They claim pitbull's are only 7% of the total dog population. Their source for that claim state's pitbull's are the post popular bread available for sale/addoption, making 15% of the market
So now we have ~7 pitbull deaths (half of the '87 -'88 total, CDC table) with a population of over 1.7 million pitbulls for sale/adoption (Top Nine US Dog Breeds and Types - Animals24-7 (The analysis on that page to my eyes is a bit 'how you going').
Same thing applies to children to be fair
Spot on. And when people question why some people are allowed to own and mistreat animals I always say that society can't even look after it's children so the poor pets have no hope.
We kind of did though. We literally breed dogs for their temperaments and disposition. e.g. Labradors and Golden Retrievers. We used to breed many "aggressive" dogs for hunting and fighting, too.
I'm not saying environment doesn't play a role - it totally does - but this notion of "oh it's the owner not the breed" always struck me as double-think.
We treat dogs like other chattel, tailoring them to our own whims rather than their own wellbeing. We make them what they are according to our wants, and sometimes our experiments backfire on us.
It's not unlike guns. If you think "guns don't kill people, people kill people, " then commensurately "dogs don't kill people, people kill people." I expect those who apply a "no gun" policy will struggle to apply a commensurate "no dog" policy, and those who are liberal about guns will struggle to blame dog "owners" the same way they would blame gun owners - both of these contradictory approaches are rooted in a sense of entitlement about dogs being our property rather than the subjects of their own existences and deserving lives largely free from human interference.
Also in this instance the dog, unlike an inanimate object like a gun, is also subject to their own suffering - be it being killed when they do something "wrong," or even the fact that they exist in a largely one-way exploitative master/slave role, never having anything resembling a natural existence.
It's quite unlike guns. Guns aren't sentient creatures with legislated rights and protections. It's funny, you just (rightfully) pointed out that people treat animals like property then immediately compare them to inanimate objects.
My point, which you didn't really address, still stands: humans have bred these animals for certain traits, like aggression. We literally have made them what they are - which can include being aggressive.
It's funny, you just (rightfully) pointed out that people treat animals like property then immediately compare them to inanimate objects.
Dude, this is what nonvegans do. I am pointing it out. Check my comment history - I am the annoying vegan in the village. If it was up to me there would be zero domesticated animals.
Humans have bred these animals for certain traits, like aggression. We literally have made them what they are - which can include being aggressive.
That was essentially the first thing I said in this thread.
In the original days of dog fighting when the pit bull rose to fame, there would be people in the "pit" with the dogs while they fought. The dogs that were human aggressive were obviously a problem. And were bred out of the bloodlines. You can have a human aggressive dog in situations like that.
When a dog showed signs of wanting to quit the dogs were separated and the dog who turned was given the opportunity to scratch and engage the other dog which was dominant and was being held back by its owner. Man biters can't be separated and held.
So, put bulls were bred very specifically for gameness. That is the trait to not give up. Any signs of aggression towards humans was quickly extinguished.
It's pretty interesting to get to know the history of the breed. They've shown themselves to be extremely loyal, gentle and physically sting and agile. As evidenced by their excellent scores in shutzhund training and competition.
The more you know
Google answer while running away from dog…
Run away with kid in pram and 1 walking with you?
Where is the owner, or is the dog at large or a stray or what?
Could be astray dog or the dog who managed to escape from the house because the door was opened.
"Hey Siri what do I do if I am being chased by a dog"
Siri voice: If you have a toddler throw it at the dog or drop it. Run faster than the toddler.
Don't run away the slowest.
If you can't run or need to protect someone, go for the eyes.
Sounds like the kids are pretty young, I think they can outrun them.
"Go for the eyes, Boo. Go for the eyes! RrraaaAAGHGHH!"
The dog attacks are not uncommon in Australia
Statistically, how common are you saying they are?
Like 2 each year, and even 1 is too many
If that's the case, I'd be more worried about being attacked by a shark than a dog.
I haven't seen a shark in our neighbourhood for years, leashed or stray.
It seems like running away from a few dogs might actually help the statistics - given how many people are attached by dogs compared to dying from obesity related illnesses.
That's what happens when you tame wild animals…. Durrrr
That seems pretty uncommon.
Statistically, that's nothing.
If even 1 is too much, then what do you suggest?
Get rid of the single breed that does most of the attacks?
2 each year lol who the hell are you kidding, they are daily occurrences, just they are rarely bad enough to make the national news.
Fatal attacks are rare but injuries to people and other animals are a daily occurance in any major population centre.
They are way more common than people might think. And OPs question is a good question to ask, especially for a parent of young children because attacking dogs will usually go for the smaller/weaker target.
One good reaction I saw on video where a child was getting attacked was the guy got the child and put them on the roof of a car to keep them away from the dog:
https://youtu.be/UfqGXv30mPU?t=28
Or you can get an attack cat:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEa6jZv-Khc
Hope someone is nearby to help:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVAr3bUql34
Would you say… Ten million?
Read this thread
and get stuck in a recursive loop?
Isn't a Pit Bull a restricted breed/ownership in most states of Aust.
https://kb.rspca.org.au/knowledge-base/is-there-legislation-…
Agreed about the demographics and the owners, but there is evidence to say that behaviour is hereditary. I think it comes down to nurture and nature.
Breed and owner both issues.
It is a mix of both, certain breeds like Pit Bulls have traits bred into them, they are fighting dogs. Bit like leaving a loaded gun around, it may never hurt anyone or it may kill the next kid that touches it in a fashion that surprises or scares it.
Pit Bulls have been selectivley bred as gamedogs. They are designed for heightened prey drive, aggression and bite strength. Think of them as hand grenades, very useful for the purpose intended, but in no way should people keep them around their loved ones.
Not very common dog. Be more worried about all the poorly kept staffies (bogan dog of choice)
As my neighbour says about their dog…
It’s not a “pit bull”… it’s an American Staffordshire bull terrier…
Um, no, that’s a pit bull…
Triggered much? FYI, unfortunately for you earning above a certain income doesn't suddenly remove your bogan status….easier just to embrace it rather than get upset.
@balkanite: Of course you don't think you're triggered, but it seems at least the 13 people who negged you disagree (I gave you a + btw ;)). As I said just embrace who you are, your level of income or the number of poodles you buy won't change it. No need to get upset, it's perfectly fine to be a bogan :)
@balkanite: I'm just a little confused why someone who most probably has never owned such a dog believes they know better than others.
Individual experience accounts for little, thats why Scientists use statistics most of the time.
Boganaire.
To the idiots who say Staffies are bogan dog of choice, I own one and I can guarantee I pay more tax every year then you earn.
So that just makes you a cashed up bogan
bogan dog of choice
Thanks for providing us the proof
The am staff is a pit bull bred for looks, not gameness.
ref: the American put bull terrier by Richard stratton.
Actually there is a difference. The American Pit Bull Terrier is very similar to the American Staffordshire Bull Terrier, but they are distinct pure breeds. The former is banned in many Australian states & I know a person who got around the law by registering one as the latter.
erm this happened in us&a
Do a drop kick.
Or if it's really big do a roundhouse kick.
or if its really, really big, sweep the leg.
The Last of Us Part 2 is Interactive training for this.
sure i’ll just smash 🟦
Insert a digit.
Urban myth.
Joking aside, stab your fingers/thumbs into it's eyes, as hard as you can. Properly hard. You are defending you/your family. Your aim is to stop the threat.
Well I didn't say where.
True that !
Don't lead the dog on…
😂
Do the Hopoate
If you don't have a weapon, there's not much you can do. People underestimate how ferocious fighting dogs are. A 30kg pit bull can ruin a grown adult. Their necks are pure muscle, so good luck choking one out, and their skulls are so thick you'd never punch it out. That's assuming it doesn't take your fingers in one bite. Try kicking and you risk getting pulled to the ground where it can reach your face and neck. Your only real advantage is height. Do everything you can to stay standing so it can't reach your vital organs, while finding a weapon, help, or some place it can't reach.
You’re right kicking a dog is never a good idea.
If it bites your thigh one could easily bleed out.
Standing still (Until owner can get take it away) or backing slowly away to safety (if no1 around. Eg climb a tree or go over a fence or get into a car), facing the dog, avoiding eye contact might work. Having something in your hands is good to fend it off…. best to let the dog rip it out of your hands (it may think it’s part of you and buy you some time backing away time) than hit the dog with it.
I remember being stalked and then aggressively bailed up at a beach in Cambodia by a very large dog once. Owners were European. It is there guard dog; they take it for walks on the beach.
I’ll never forget the terror.
thread reminds me of a video i saw of a Dog attacking another dog, basically lockjawed on.
people were beating it with a stick and kicking it, sticking a broom in there trying to free it, but was stuck. mad muscles
You grab it's leg and go to town, wouldn't be difficult to dislocate something. The biggest mistake you could make is being scared.
You grab it's leg and go to town, wouldn't be difficult to dislocate something
Okay, Liam Neeson. Which leg would you grab? Pick a fore, and expose your soft hands to the pointy end. A hind is hardly better because dogs are flexible enough to lick their own butts and in a fight, and can whip their necks as quick as a snake, much quicker than you can ‘dislocate’ a stifle. You’ve obviously never seen an actual dog attack.
Why would you be worried about your hands ? that's where you want it to bite. I'd be worried about it grabbing your jugular. Anyways it doesn't matter which leg, if you can't stay calm you've already lost.
Why would you be worried about your hands ? that's where you want it to bite.
A dog can bite down on your fingers and tear them off with one toss of its head. There goes any hope of pulling yourself out of reach or wielding a weapon. That's assuming it doesn't just clamp down like a bear trap and pull you down. The whole point is to stay standing and protect your head/neck/hands at the expense of your legs.
Anyways it doesn't matter which leg, if you can't stay calm you've already lost.
Reaching down to an aggressive dog in an attempt to grasp its leg is stupid and dangerous advice.
@SydStrand: Look it's all situational, I agree dogs can be terrifying and their speed and strength can be surprising. My point is that you shouldn't give away your power so easily, stand up for yourself and show the beast who's boss.
Stop breeding dogs and blaming them that we made them what they are.