Workplace Forcing People Back to Office

poochi on 15/12/2020 - 12:11
Last edited 15/12/2020 - 12:25 by 1 other user

I work in a large government agency. Staff have been working from home since May. It was recently decreed that everyone is expected to work from the office at least 60% of the time next year.

Management have ignored all the benefits that have become apparent from WFH, such as improved mental and physical wellbeing, saving time and money on public transport, increased flexibility, etc., all the while maintaining (if not improving) productivity and staying safe.

Practical matters such as staff needing to take crowded public transport back to work or caring for family members more vulnerable to Covid have been ignored.

Anyone else work for an organisation that likes to claim it's modern and progressive while being the exact opposite?

Education & Work

Comments

    • boomramada on 15/12/2020 - 14:31
      +10

      I hate WFH, its kind of lonely, no socialisation.

      • Frozensage on 20/12/2020 - 23:17

        Im opposite. I hate being distracted. I work best when I have headphones on, humming my tune and not needing to worry about how many meetings I need to go. Just give me a deadline and we can have wip meetings couple of times a week and that’s it. I’m not there to socialise, I’m there to work, I don’t really need to have any of my co workers as friends outside of work. And if we actually got along then we can chat online, no need for face to face interaction

    • Trippelsewe on 16/12/2020 - 08:08
      +4

      Yep, my mental health slumped a bit while working from home, pretty happy to be back in the office.

    • drprox on 16/12/2020 - 18:58
      +2

      Confirmed. It's a disaster. Let me back!

  • mapax on 15/12/2020 - 12:27
    +46

    The livestock need to return to their offices so that they spend their money at all the businesses that pay rent to the big end of town…

    • one man clan on 15/12/2020 - 12:56
      +12

      You say this cynically but Gladys said this (in more flattering terms) about the NSW Public Service. The regions are booming and the CBD is struggling so we are being sent in to spend money

      • Other on 16/12/2020 - 19:04
        +3

        Meaning the Government doesn't give a s**t about the people but what big business wants.

        • ThithLord on 17/12/2020 - 10:19

          Whatever gave you that impression? lmao

  • tallkid123 on 15/12/2020 - 12:29
    +7

    Probably time to find a new job.

  • djones145 on 15/12/2020 - 12:40
    +3

    "modern and progressive" and government agency?

    nahhhh

    "dark ages and bunch of old farts living the dream in the past" and government agency sounds right

    • MessyG on 16/12/2020 - 21:15

      Yeh why change anything when you can rock up and collect a massive paycheque for doing things the way you've done them since the seventies. Classic government.

    • Herbse on 16/12/2020 - 23:56
      +1

      When was the last time you worked for a government agency? They are run like tech startups now, with massive budgets for worker wellbeing and use progressive work methods to hire and keep people on the role.

      It's the corporate companies that are focused on tight budgets and bottom lines at the expense of the workers.

      • eatcroissants on 17/12/2020 - 09:52
        +3

        I work in a govt agency and can confirm they still don't have a lot of money to spend on employees (specially now during covid). The funding has drastically reduced.

        • ThithLord on 17/12/2020 - 10:20

          they still don't have a lot of money to spend

          Ah, you must work for a regulatory agency huh? Thanks LNP!

        • locknuts on 19/12/2020 - 20:28

          Because most government revenue comes from income taxes and when businesses shut down, income tax revenues plummet. It's not that complicated. Business need to get back to paying their taxes again so government departments can have budgets.

  • Rescue 26 on 15/12/2020 - 12:42
    +106

    An employer who requires its employees to attend the workplace - outrageous!

    • Hellfire on 15/12/2020 - 12:44
      +26

      And only 60% of the time!

    • mbck on 15/12/2020 - 12:57
      +9

      Time for a revolution!!!

    • RocketSwitch on 16/12/2020 - 08:54
      +17

      Stop living in the past, rethink what you wrote. If he can do his job at home, what is the problem exactly? Took a virus to show leadership because of outdated mindsets like this. Judging by your upvotes, this is the reason why modern slavery has pushed people to their limits and caused a mental health crisis.

      • whooah1979 on 16/12/2020 - 09:12
        +45

        WFH is double-edged sword. If an Australian can WHF then that job can be done by someone from India, Bangladesh, the Philippines, etc. Employers will quickly work out that they can have 4 guys WFH for the price of one local worker.

        • Shazam1 on 16/12/2020 - 09:19

          Guess what. No more excuses for On-site travel.

          • whooah1979 on 16/12/2020 - 09:21
            +3

            @Shazam1: You're right. Why have onsite work when they can outsource it to overseas?

        • Shazam1 on 16/12/2020 - 09:21
          -3

          You are stretching it too far.
          It is not so difficult for the Australian government to see to it that it's citizens are employed before outsourcing jobs.

        • Zondor on 16/12/2020 - 11:10

          Yeah nah doesn't check out mate.

        • tikei on 16/12/2020 - 14:14
          +5

          If my work can be outsourced for cheaper and at the same quality then it's on me for not being competitive enough. Time for some self improvements.
          Often the cheap outsourced work is of poor quality.. speaking as someone who deals with Philippine agents.

          • gromit on 16/12/2020 - 15:25

            @tikei:

            Often the cheap outsourced work is of poor quality..

            completely depends who your outsourcing too. plenty of outsourced resources are as good or better than local resources while being cheaper but as with all things if you go for the CHEAPEST then you get crap. I have seen engineers from India and China that run rings around most of our local resources and seen some who I would not hire as even a trainee.

        • PappaLuigi on 16/12/2020 - 15:34

          never going to happen CHAMP, government agencies deal with sensitive information across the spectrum, the information cannot leave Australia, it must remain here

          • whooah1979 on 16/12/2020 - 15:40

            @PappaLuigi: What?

            Data that is properly encrypted can be stored anywhere in the world. Or do you mean that the data must be stored in the PM's pocket?

            https://news.iobanker.com/2020/11/25/australian-government-e…

            Man versus technology. Technology eventually wins every time

            • sobes on 16/12/2020 - 19:19

              @whooah1979: You're right that properly encrypted data can be stored everywhere but I don't think the average Joe understands that. Even if it's misinformed, I think public perception plays a big role in those decisions, and a lot of businesses would rather pay a premium to keep data within borders than risk the headline or reputation for storing private data overseas.

          • gromit on 16/12/2020 - 16:03

            @PappaLuigi:

            never going to happen CHAMP, government agencies deal with sensitive information across the spectrum, the information cannot leave Australia, it must remain here

            that is only true for some government agencies. A lot of project work is done through overseas outsourcers or subbies at governments departments already, Most agencies operate at unclassified and a little at protected. They also have mechanisms such as secure enclaves for foreign workers to operate within.

        • Mistredo on 16/12/2020 - 18:34

          Outsourcing is already a thing. Big companies already got their offices in the mentioned countries.

        • dmac on 17/12/2020 - 08:27

          Most employers would have no idea how to do this. Also if employers can do this, employees can as well. Plenty of stories of employers and employees both outsourcing work.

          WFH doesn't have to be all or nothing. Allowing the option would likely increase well being and therefore increase productivity. Employers could require certain days to be collaboration days, so that people come into the office.

          It's a bit archaic to see work as only at work in todays world where many people already are working from home whether or not they are paid for it.

        • love2buy on 18/12/2020 - 08:40

          Exactly! What is stopping me from outsourcing my work as an employee?

          • whooah1979 on 18/12/2020 - 09:14

            @love2buy: You've read your employment contract. The contract may stipulate that employees aren't permitted to engage in endeavours that directly compete with the employer's core business (conflict of interest) and/or operate an enterprise while being employed.

            Something so innocent as moonlighting could end with a sacking.
            https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/591480#comment-9827709

      • ThithLord on 17/12/2020 - 10:20

        Welcome to OzBargain

    • Shazam1 on 16/12/2020 - 09:17
      +4

      An employer who does not have to bother about providing it's employees a place of work.
      1. Saving on the office rent.
      2. Empowering employees.

      That is outrageous indeed!!

      • 91rs on 16/12/2020 - 10:56
        +3

        Wait for the first workers comp claim. Then everyone will be back in the office without a choice.
        Who has liability? Does that then mean audits for WFH setups so they are OHS compliant and safe?

        • Other on 16/12/2020 - 19:08
          +2

          there are already cases heard in employment tribunals about working at home that have been heard and ruled upon.
          Plus government regulations in existence already.

          So nah.

    • Herbse on 16/12/2020 - 23:58
      +4

      People have gotten way too spoilt

      People are now asking if they can work while on a holiday next year so they don't have to use up their leave 🤷‍♂️

      • Aureus on 17/12/2020 - 12:31

        How is that spoilt? As long as they are doing their hours and getting the work done, it really shouldn't matter.

      • capslock janitor on 17/12/2020 - 13:47

        we can draw the boundary there haha

      • peterpaoliello on 18/12/2020 - 13:45

        I'm doing literally that right now, travelling within Victoria. Difference is the only metric I get judged on is my performance, not if I'm physically located in some arbitrary geographic location.

  • mini2 on 15/12/2020 - 12:51

    You might wanna join CPSU and get them onto the case possibly?

  • Ocker on 15/12/2020 - 12:52
    +17

    As you are obviously not happy with your present employer then resign and start your own company. Then you can be as flexible with employee conditions as you like.

    • mini2 on 15/12/2020 - 14:11
      +3

      Too bad the clients might ask them to turn up on site. Back to square one….

  • tsunamisurfer on 15/12/2020 - 12:52
    +48

    The employer has the right to ask their employees to work at their offices provided it is safe.

    It is for now safe.

    The OP seems to want to cherry pick the best parts of COVID.

    • field1985 on 16/12/2020 - 01:58
      +17

      Why shouldn't we "cherry pick" the best parts of COVID??? What is with this attitude that we should just accept it and go back to the dumb and slow way things were done because of tradition?

      Adapt or die.

      • whooah1979 on 16/12/2020 - 07:30
        +4

        You're right. Comply or find another job. There are plenty of WFH out there.

      • amsaini15 on 16/12/2020 - 08:30
        +8

        Agree with field1985. Why wfh is looked at "best parts of COVID". Why cant it be looked at better than the traditional way unless someone wants to shows what are we loosing with wfh? Yes, some may say social life, mental health, let them go to office 5 days a week if they want.

        • RocketSwitch on 16/12/2020 - 08:58
          +2

          Exactly, not sure what the hell is wrong with everyone trying to "control" how an employee should work.

        • field1985 on 16/12/2020 - 11:17
          +7

          The only people types of people in our offices (thousands of staff) that have any desire to return to the office are:
          - Parents who want time away from toddlers/babies
          - People who live alone and need a social outlet
          - Middle managers who need to watch over staff to feel superior, while doing no work and adding no value at huge expense to the business

          • astarman on 17/12/2020 - 00:31

            @field1985: and the young ones, who want to be in the office thurs fridya for the drinks. but wfh monday to weds for the sleep ins

      • astarman on 16/12/2020 - 23:52

        guess OP will be dying

    • dmac on 17/12/2020 - 08:33
      +3

      How dare workers ask for any conditions that they prefer. Big business guys have had a really hard year and lost a few million. It's not the right time to ask for favours!

      The reality has been workers not being paid fairly for their work. This is the wages have stagnated point. They have stagnated because companies have found out ways to minimise their employees pay to improve their profits margins.

      Working from home has been a dream since 2000s, a potential reality since 2010s and become actual reality this year. It would be a backslide for employees to give this up just because of traditional views of what a workplace looks like.

  • Tee Rex Arms on 15/12/2020 - 12:53

    Good. Make it 100%.

    • capslock janitor on 17/12/2020 - 13:50
      -1

      Nah 3 days in, 2 days WFH would be good.

      Then every other day where it would be better/rquired to have a collab face2face!
      (Or basically expect be On-call to office/worksite those 2 days)

  • brad1-8tsi on 15/12/2020 - 13:00
    +2

    OP

    Have you expressed your concerns with one of the unions that represent your workplace?

    CPSU
    ASU
    Professionals Australia

    Union membership does have advantages

    • mini2 on 15/12/2020 - 14:18
      +4

      Depending on the rep/agency in question, CPSU can be useless.

    • greatlamp on 16/12/2020 - 13:33

      I wouldn't include Professionals Australia in a list of effective Unions

      • brad1-8tsi on 17/12/2020 - 15:57

        I wouldn't include Professionals Australia in a list of effective Unions

        I wouldn't either but they get to participate in EBA negotiations and their membership is quite strong where I work.

        I'm ASU. They aren't great but aren't terrible either.

    • knowskillz on 16/12/2020 - 16:00

      My friend works for a union they are being asked to go back to the office next month.

  • Drakesy on 15/12/2020 - 13:01
    +4

    Sorry but there's nothing surprising here.
    Meanwhile here in WA I work in Government and it was a directive that we all return to the office. The fact that you only have to be there for 60% of the time i'd take as a major win.

    Oh and Gov could never claim they're modern and progressive, not with the paperwork and red tape required to get anything through, let alone getting rid of the rotten apples that just sit there on 6 figure wages until they're government pension kicks in.

    • bobwokeup on 16/12/2020 - 00:53
      +1

      I disagree I’ve worked at a few GTE’s and they are all very different in regards to how modern/progressive they are..

      • brokenxsmile on 16/12/2020 - 09:34
        +1

        But that's why they are a GTE.

        They generally can and do operate different to the Departments.

        • bobwokeup on 16/12/2020 - 10:57

          That is a very good point. I’d hate to work directly for government in WA.

  • Hardlyworkin on 15/12/2020 - 13:11

    It's been nice for some though it couldn't last forever…. well hopefully not. Going forward I hope to be able to do 1 or 2 days a week from home. Pre Covid would have had little chance of being approved for this.

    Unfortunately for you OP, the success of Australia's response means you have to come into the office 3 days a week. Do you qualify for flexible working arrangements? Might be your only way out of it unless you have medical proof to support your case to your employer.

  • avoidfullprice on 15/12/2020 - 13:13

    It was recently decreed that everyone is expected to work from the office at least 60% of the time next year.

    I speculate this is to improve coffee shops revenue.

    You could, through continuous improvement measure, suggest prioritising parents with kids to go back to office first. They didn't want to be home when kids were schooling remotely

  • Archi on 15/12/2020 - 13:17

    you always have a choice

    • MementoMori on 16/12/2020 - 16:53

      Sure - it's get injected OR quit your job

      • Archi on 16/12/2020 - 19:30

        Yep.. be part of the solution or be part of the problem

  • orangetrain on 15/12/2020 - 13:17
    +14

    They said its 60% because they're scared that the people will quit if they said no more wfh immediately. I bet they will increase next year to 100% "after a lot of review and discussions".

    Start applying elsewhere or be part of a union.

    • brad1-8tsi on 17/12/2020 - 15:59
      +1

      Where I work we haven't got the floor space to maintain social distancing.

      Also, our meeting rooms were booked back2back. You need to take the load off in order to clean between meetings.

  • Melb69 on 15/12/2020 - 13:38
    +1

    At the end of the day if you were working in the office full time previous and now you want to change it. You need to discuss it with HR. If they are not flexible then look for another job. My boss moved into a new office he bought in May. No one on there. It's time to get back tp normal. OMO

  • whooah1979 on 15/12/2020 - 13:46

    70.46% of Ozb say that they would take a jab so that they can keep their job.

    Take a jab and get back to the office.

    • Other on 16/12/2020 - 19:10
      +1

      ?

      why "get back to the office" if productivity is higher Not going into an office?

      • MessyG on 16/12/2020 - 21:17
        +1

        I have this theory that a return to the office will drive productivity down because of commuting and socialising in the workspace. It will be interesting to see what happens.

  • Tiredman on 15/12/2020 - 14:02
    +12

    Upper management miss shouting at people.

    • amsaini15 on 16/12/2020 - 08:31
      +1

      haha Exactly. They don't get a feeling of being a boss with no crowd.

    • Caped Baldy on 16/12/2020 - 17:50
      +6

      There's probably a decent percentage of management discovering they've got nothing to do and their heads are on the chopping block.

  • Dean29 on 15/12/2020 - 14:10
    +2

    Lucky you i didn't get a chance to work from home still had to come in to the office

    • brokenxsmile on 16/12/2020 - 09:34

      Ditto. 2 days of working from home over the whole pandemic, and that was only because my husband was on a flight with someone with COVID and we got symptoms.

  • Donaldhump on 15/12/2020 - 14:18
    +4

    gov != modern.

    if you don't like it, get another job and stipulate that you will only work from home.

  • Dlw on 15/12/2020 - 14:18
    +17

    Be glad you’ve even had the opportunity to work from home, some of us haven’t.

  • nubzy on 15/12/2020 - 15:02
    +2

    Either take a pay cut and become self-employed or accept it for what it is. That's the reality of capitalism and working under somebody else. I hope to remain self employed for the rest of my working life. For me, the mental health benefits and freedom are priceless.

    • Ghost47 on 15/12/2020 - 23:42
      +2

      What do you do if you're self employed out of curiosity?

      • nubzy on 16/12/2020 - 09:13
        -1

        I sell my skills

        • Other on 16/12/2020 - 19:11
          +2

          uggghhhh.

        • jenkemjunkie on 19/12/2020 - 17:22
          +1

          Like nunchuck skills, bo hunting skills, computer hacking skills…

  • kanad on 15/12/2020 - 23:23
    +1

    I work at a ASX 100 company in Melbourne. Staff back at 25% capacity already and expected to be normal by Feb 2021. After that it is as per workplace flexibility policy, you have to ask your leader in writing and based on various factors and reasons agree to you WFH days. Most people expecting 2 or at best 3 days per week. CEO is pretty clear that it will not be 100% WFH.

  • Ghost47 on 15/12/2020 - 23:48
    +2

    At least 60% of the time is at least 3 days a week in the office. That's a pretty good balance I would say, but then again I dislike WFH (even though my commute is super short) and can focus much better in an office environment.

  • bobwokeup on 16/12/2020 - 00:49

    I hear you I’ve been working for Government Trading Enterprises (GTE) for a few years now as a Contractor so I’ve seen how different they are and how much money/time is wasted at all of them.

    I personally loved WFH as I was more productive (no office politics to deal with and you can do other things while at meetings) and I saw my family more which was the biggest benefit. I didn’t do as many steps though so I made time to be active during the day and always made sure I completed all my work.

    I’ve worked at 2 GTE’s this year (due to COVID) and it was strange seeing one of them changing their view and being really open to WFH post COVID while the other has gone back to normal office hours with some WFH. Needless to say the later where I’m working now is not as enjoyable.

  • field1985 on 16/12/2020 - 01:53
    +19

    Generally surprised by the attitudes on here. Our office (gov/corporate Melb CBD) has no intention of returning permanently, even managers and the executive, who are very supportive of WFH continuing indefinitely.

    The list of positives for both employer and employee is nearly endless. COVID simply accelerated a trend that was already occurring and will continue.

    The idea you have to physically commute to and sit in an office being watched from 9-5 is archaic and businesses that force a return will quickly lose their most talented/productive staff, and be left with a bunch of lackeys happy to sit around the office and chat all day.

    At the end of the day remote work is cheaper (less expensive city office space, less travel, less expenses, less time wasted) and more productive (less distractions, more results focussed). Businesses who insist on maintaining large physical offices will go the way of the dodo, because their competitors, who continue to embrace WFH, will have a competitive advantage.

    • morse on 16/12/2020 - 03:32
      +2

      I agree. However unfortunately if it’s gov organisations they don’t have to be more competitive, they’ll just spend more taxpayers money to achieve the same outcomes.

    • whooah1979 on 16/12/2020 - 07:39
      +2

      Over 70% of Ozb are ok with complying with their employment rules so that they can keep their job.

      It's either come into work when they tell you or find a new WFH job.

      • field1985 on 16/12/2020 - 08:57
        -2

        So the majority are sheep with no power who will do whatever they are told out of fear because they know they aren't talented? How depressing… Working out of fear is not a healthy relationship with your employer. If that's the case you should really find something more rewarding and secure.

        If that 70% weren't sheep and instead organised (maybe call it a union), they could negotiate terms on a level playing field and get some wage rises happening while they're at it.

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