I’ve seen it so much on here. Every other car seems to have its issues but doesn’t get anywhere near as piled on.
Not trying to defend them, just genuinely want to know.
Oh, and please don’t use the “mAdE iN cHiNa” argument
Why The HAVAL Hate?
L63pinecone on 30/10/2021 - 18:33
Comments
But Australian made
@[Deactivated]: Holden was a Australian brand. Captiva and Cruze was made in Korea and marketed/R&D by General Motors.
@Yotta00: dont worry about that kind of guy
he has an issue with an aussie made toyota
goes on a strange rant about how holdens may or may not be aust or may or may not be made here but they defintely arent being made now!
i remember gillard gave money for holden to set up an assembly line for the Cruze and they couldnt be bothered as the ones coming from Korea werent selling anyway
and so like any good foreign company they didnt pay gillard back
anyways it all water under the bridge
i always find it funny how people who cant even make a car seem to go on rants about how foreign cars arent good enough… this leads to a thing where every company screws you in the ass because you cant build something and you dont buy enough so everyone suffers because this market is a load of shit…
doers do and just get on with it
@tonyjzx: You're correct in Craptivas were Australian developed but made in Korea.
Cruzes on the other hand were Australian made and fell apart as soon as they left the showroom floor. Had a mate buy one, was a worse money pit than any euro car could ever be. Automatic gearbox wouldn't go into gear. Intercooler didn't work, engine layout made any maintenance work an absolute PITA. Had a second hand car dealer actively discourage me to buy a 4 year old one for $9000, i have much more respect for car dealers after that.Turns out Australian designed/tested/manufactured Holdens were pieces of sh1t.
And the only time we could get anyone to manufacture decent cars was when the government literally paid Toyota to build cars to keep the jobs.
May as well of given the workers the money directly and would've had a greater return.
mAdE iN cHiNa
Some people said that Hyundai Excel was crap, his is right. I remember I rent one from Budget when I was in Melbourne a while back, going on the hwy at the speed 100km/h the car literally shakes. Now, Hyundai have improved a lot and I don't mind owning a Hyundai. The same wise to those China made, it need time to mature and competitive market is better for all of us.
All of these vehicles would be better than what we were driving 20 years ago, so what's the prob.
If they made a car I can fit my 6'6 frame in the front and my son's 6'4 frame behind me… I would consider it
- Slow
- High centre of gravity
- Body roll around hard corners
Yes, probably true because they are tall, but what about the cars?
What you're saying is true for all SUV/utes.
Because they have repeatedly tried to sell their vehicles here and they've been absolute garbage.
GWM/haval/Great Wall are the same company.
You don't get a clean slate everytime you release a new vehicle.
https://www.ancap.com.au/media-and-gallery/releases/another-…
On top of that the marketing tries to compare them against Japanese vehicles and it's almost like they're taking the piss.
Sad part is people fall for it looking at the price.
They don't sell the steed anymore?
Swoosh
"You don't get a clean slate everytime you release a new vehicle."
this is by far the dumbest statement i've heard in a long time
the reality is that people have short memories
should I not look at a Kia Stinger (if I had the money) becuase Kia screwed up the Carnival 15yrs ago with their dud engines?
every company has a bad track record if you look long enough
i think you can only evaluate the model you want to buy as it is now
I dont care about the results of a 5yr old ute that is a model I'm not going to buy.
@tonyjzx: If someone wanted to be a retard and buy the current unrated model on price alone they can go for it. It's their money to waste.
The current ute has the same engine and chassis. They just bolted gadgets on and morons lap it up.
Kia had to earn it's reputation back as did Mitsubishi. To my knowledge Great Wall/haval have not done that and as the ANCAP blog notes there is years of historical crap engineering from Chinese vehicles.
There's a lot of talk here about quality, which was rubbish and is rapidly improving (like Korea and Japan before them).
But what about morals/ethics?
A) You're ultimately supporting the CCP, a dictatorship that has and is actively trying it's best to ruin Australia's economy. A country with proven wide-scale human rights abuse of minority populations. A country blatantly breaching UN laws in the South China Sea every day. A country that has illegally seized control via politics of Hong Kong, and is threatening military invasion of Taiwan.
B) As mentioned above, Chinese car companies have a history of extreme and blatant IP breach (cloning entire cars such as the Jeep Wrangler and Range Rover), which their government rarely acknowledge, let alone intervenes in.
Whilst there's little choice in where most of what you purchase comes from, cars are not one of them. Take your business elsewhere, even if it costs slightly more.
You get it… The CCP controls everything in China. and any company there has to tow the line and do whatever the CCP wants.
the problem might be that many people… many white people if you go by YT, dont care about that shit
i personally dont because as an avg. aus citizen all i care about is getting most for my dollars
if a GWM Ute costs $40k and the closest model from Thailand is $52k (which is typical) then I;m not willing to spend $12k to make a dumb point to no one in particular.
My money either goes to Thailand to support some jap or us multinational or some chinese company.
I do get how people say that the CCP controls everything but really, do you think the CCP gives a ratshit about a random China car company?
For all the bluster of the CCP I wonder why they give so much leeway to a Taiwanese owned electronics company like Foxconn?
You're kidding yourself if you think you have any influence on state politics here let alone federal let alone some other foreign govt.
I would rather spend $40k on a china made ute and spend the remainding $12k on local consumption where its likely to do some good making local business have general currency circulation..
"do you think the CCP gives a ratshit about a random China car company"
Of course they do. Any large company over there is either directly or indirectly state-controlled. If CEO's, celebrities', influencers etc. don't play along then their social media accounts are removed and they're given a forced months-long visit to "re-education" camps. Not even Jack Ma was immune from this.@Viper8: Lol. Which "re-education" camp was Jack Ma sent to? One in Spain? That's where he is at the moment.
@[Deactivated]: "was" not "is"
You missed the part where he disappeared from the face of the planet for a couple of months a few months ago?@[Deactivated]: How would I possibly know this? How does knowing which one he was sent to change the result of what occurred? Nice attempt at trying to redirect the debate to something I can't answer in an attempt to discredit me. You come across as a CCP sympathizer. I won't be responding to any future trolling comments you make. This information is readily available (re-education camps, Jack Ma's previous disappearance).
I test drove the H6 and Jolion recently. My opinion (compared to my current camry) : the cars really just feel cheap. Starts with the steering wheel and how it grips. IIRC a kmart bikes handle has a wider grip than the steering wheel of H6 and Jolion. It just doesn't grip right. The seats (especially the H6's) just feel very small/narrow. One of the turns I actually slipped off the seat a bit. The alignment of the center console is indeed towards the passenger side (left side) and is annoying. Nothing you can't get used to, but. The indicator stick on the left has completely ruled it out for us as a second car. It will be very hard to keep switching between the right side of the indicator stick and the wrong side of it.
This really shows that the car makers can't be arsed getting basic things right for the Australian market. If you are bringing a US model over, at least get some things right. The cars have no safety rating. And despite all this the cars have gone up in price by a thousand dollars each. An outlander (mid range) and a H6 cost nearly the same. Personally, I am actively looking for a new car and I can sense the car supply improve as the car dealers who once yelled "Take it or leave it mate - no discounts!" are now softer and say "yeah we can look at the price no worries - but wiggle room of only a couple of hundred, yea" I think its going to be a very difficult market for Haval in the coming months.
you really seem to have standards that even the euros cant meet
i also test drove a H6, granted only for 15-20 mins
i found it to be no better than the Koreans Japanese and better than them in some
i found the interior quality to be about par with mid spec Asian, the steering was light and no feel just like any modern electric steering car, the leather steering wheel was also no better or worse than the competition
the interior seemed to lack room in that the dash seemed to encroach into your driver space
i found no issue with console alignment in this or the Jolion
it has the indicator on the left just like the porsche mercedes audi bmw JLR's i've driven
what I HATED is that the cruise control stalk was on the left too and not on the wheel
engine power was more than enough… i think 150kW 320Nm pushing 1,5 ton embarrasses everyone else
the 7 spd dct also seemed to be non intrusive
while you would compare with the xtrail and outlander you just dont get the engine power out of the 2.5 n/a fours they have… also i'm done with the n/a four cvt shit show
prices have gone up for them about $1,000 on the H6 and the Ute still sell so… that's what happens when demand is strong and supply low
they're not effected by the tsmc whatever ecu silicon issue so they have no reason to discount
i say again to everyone and especially here… show me where you can buy an SUV for $40k that has 150kw turbo four + 7 spd dct + haldex 4wd?
or should i slum it in a base model $38k Tuscon that doesnt even have keyless start and has a pissy 120kW 200Nm n/a four?
Are you a salesman for Haval and are they paying you to promote their brand because it sure seems like it.
I'm asking you to provide and alternative and I'm still waiting. If I was a salesman I would be slagging off shit I dont like about it but I suppose comprehension isnt a strong point here.
…or has invested in Haval
Faced with this sort of new car delima, I asked my bother to look for a used alternative and he found me an nice BMW X3 Turbo Diesel for $16.500 & then he got me a nice $3,500 trade in on a low K but transmission slipping Thai SsangYong 4WD. Its a shame the trannie on this slips like a alcoholic on snow but alas, quality isnt a SsangYong trait, nor is affordable aftersales service and repair (quotes from 6k and up for a swap or service)
X3 is wow-wee, no comparison and with change still kicking in wallet to be spent, some cool things are in store for it. The other $15-20k I would have spent on a HAVAL will go into crypto and so when in 10 years when the BMW cacks itself, ill be able to afford a hovvercraft!
Saw a Haval brake light with Haval branding on the actual light.
Not a good look among other things.Does anyone here remember when Toyota was becoming mainstream?
That was junk too apparently.
Hyundai was trash for years.
Kia
Chinese cars will take over. It is hard to argue with their slave labour.
i dont think they are using slave labour here
at best you need some reasonable skilled assembly
however your consumer electronics your phones your fashion and shoes sports wear that strangely bears western brands etc etc.
Still are paid less than elsewhere in the world.
The Korean brands launch strategy was the cheapest model on the market. That 2 door Hyundai Excel was very popular. Crappy car great but it was brand new cheaper then buying a 2nd hand cars. Eventually they lifted the strategy to provide quality cars with excellent after sales customer service. Hyundai and Kia is still the cheapest with the highest power vehicles.
When?
Even in back to the future they would go on about how good Japanese things were.
You obviously don't remember doc's line
Took a while.
1955 doc thought they were crap
By 1985 they were established.
If you buy chinese cars, you are a traitor.
It's the car sold at the $2 store.
Would ask anyone that have purchased a Haval their reasoning? Price comparison they aren't a huge bargain given the expected high depreciation and lack of brand reputation. At least the MG brand is using the cheapest EV marketing strategy. Is not clear (at least to me) the target market segment for Haval.
i've only looked at Joilion and H6 models and the ute.
I ask what have you got on $30k that has the size and turbo 1.5 of the Jolion.
I ask what have you got for $40k that has the turbo 2.0 and 7 spd of the H6?
I ask what you got got $40k that has the same spec as capability as the 4x4 ute?
I keep asking this stuff and no one can come close. I'm really curious.
When compact SUVs BASE 2wd model comes in at $38k I have to ask what is the alternative?
That 1.5 is a rebadged engine from the 90s distraught with issues. The perfect alternative therefore will be a 90s Camry which actually might be more reliable and cheaper too.
Some brands improve over time. For example, 30 years ago, people would not touch a Mazda. 20 years ago, people would not touch a Hyundai. Now, they are among the more popular cars on the road. Having said that, some brands never bother improving (like Jeep - yeah, they deserved what they got).
Whether Haval will gain market acceptance over time largely depends on them and their constant push for manufacturing and design quality. The main misstep was that their foray into the Australian market was so bad, it instilled a mindset of being a crap brand. And first impressions count and could potentially linger for a very long time in people's minds. Coupled this with the perception that all things made in China tend to be of poor quality and the general populace mistrust in things made from there only compounds the issue.
Putting nationalistic issues aside, there is nothing wrong with Haval. They are making decent cars, just that for the moment, I am ambivalent about them. Would I pay for them, no. But I would not go so far as to castigate them as being a cheap poor quality brand. Not all things that come out from China are of bad quality.
For me it's not the quality of Chinese built cars, which is worse generally but not always. It's the depreciation, so many people go for the cheaper upfront car not realizing how much more it costs them in depreciation, it's often the biggest cost factor in owning a car the is mostly ignored.
China cuts corners in their manufacturing and is generally seen as poor quality. I wouldn't want to be driving in a car churned out in a Chinese factory until they have a proven record of safety standards and quality.
Would you buy a Chinese car that has a 5 star ANCAP rating?
5 star safety rating has no indication to the reliability or quality of the car or parts
Since you are talking about safety standards, but a 5 star ANCAP rating means nothing to you, would you buy a Chinese car, or any car with no or poor ANCAP ratings?
@[Deactivated]: I didn't say it means nothing - a 5 star ANCAP safety rating certainly adds value. But it does not take into account the overall reliability of the car. You can still have a 5 star safety rating with a shitty car that breaks down.
Plenty og great chinese brands to choose from, if i was buying a car it would be MG !
Stop talking about petrol cars. EV will change everything!
It's true.
That said Chinese EVs have some of the worst efficiency we've seen. The MG EV is terribly especially, it'll cycle it's batteries to death very quickly.
Not many people in china will buy MG EV.
Its more about Xpeng,BYD, and NIOMG is trash in china. BYD batteries are leaps and bounds ahead even tesla is buying from them. look at xpeng and nio and li auto's market cap.
I've driven a rental MG since my car was in repairs. The difference is night and day. Everything feels cheap.
When everything feels cheap, you don't necessarily want to have that between you and a crash knock on wood.
There are some things to cheap out on and there are things not to.
What do you drive normally and what MG was it?
There's really just one thing going on here. People buy a brand and then identify with the decision, it becomes part of them. They want a truck, cos it's cool and they are a tradie, and want to look cool with the other tradies. Old mate has the jacked up Ranger, so they need the jacked up ranger or when they park alongside there's an issue. Then when someone questions the purchase, they write you off because you're essentially questioning the integrity of their decision, which was probably made in vain more than anything else.
Chinese cars in an inverse way suffer from bad mojo, because the only reason to buy one is to save money, since reliability isn't yet proven, and performance isn't at the high end, and when one saves money it's hard to save face. It's a silly situation, but that's where people are at. The more people join the "in" car club, the more they need to look down on others who aren't in it to justify their purchase. It's a mob mentality
100% this plays the majority of the role in the public perception.
Unfortunately with this comes popularity and with that comes aftermarket parts and support. Finding parts for a Ranger, whether it be towing mirrors, side steps, canopies is significantly simpler and quicker than other lesser-known brands.
Issues are more widely known, so are the resolutions.
i do get that
i mean if we all had the means we'd be in a ranger or hilux or f150 raptor or v6 amarok
but if the opposition does it for $12k less and in better in some areas then people will have to make the best economic decision for themselves even if it is a lesser vehicle
dont ever smash a chinese vehicle because they dont seem to understand parts supply chain
Yes! Apart from the arguments of sub-par build quality, safety questions, unknown durability and political reasons the biggest issue is the outright embarrassment of been seen driving one. My self confidence is already low enough!
thats your value judgement
years ago i thought that white australians would never get off commodores and falcons and buy Hyundai Excels… and recently i thought they wouldnt move to Chinese utes vans… and lo and behold I see China commercial vehicles with Aust Post livery on them… and go to YT and heaps of white people going into LDV and GWM utes
I single out white people because i think Asians and ethnics wont touch that stuff…. but waspy whites?
My work mate got a HAVAL and it is great. My next car will be a HAVAL or MG.
If haval is anything like the great wall brand. Enjoy the time when it comes to find replacement parts at a decent cost
7 year warranty though
Have you considered that there might be a significant wait period for parts? And most importantly people will have to take time off to get things sorted and potentially be without a car.
Because we have Toyota.
Maybe its because of these sorts of reasons: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-08-15/chinese-cars-recalled…
They were probably obectively the best gaskets in testing
I think an article from 2012 is really dredging the drain… look at what the landscape was like in 2012… I mean Aust. still had not 1, not 2 but THREE car factories…. and that was like 5 PM's ago???
It is, compare the first 1 gen of Hyundai Excel sold here to the 2nd and then the third. By the 3rd Gen they were also building the Elantra, which is known to be one of the most reliable cars on the road. It's a huge difference 8 years for a car company that's successfully scaled up
Not as much hate as owning a merc
Family member bought a Great Wall ute a few years ago. It was about a year in when he went to pull the drivers door shut and the entire door trim came off. The sound deadening was non existant. The engine was an older licensed component and it did its best, but it expired and the car is now returning to nature in a paddock.
Did it keep him safe from invading armies?
The rabbits got in sadly.
There was a debate of the origin of Covid US or China.. now we know for sure it was the US because it lasts more than a year.. jokes aside some products from there are good/ok but I wouldn't gamble it with a car.
I used to reject korean cars too about 15-20 years ago, and probably still do unconciously, but it's hard to deny their quality have gotten a lot better. Got a MG and hyundai rental recently and was shocked by the poor quality of MG and impressed by Hyundai. I'll think about it when chinese brands become more mainstream and time tested.
I think it isn't wrong to think older Korean vehicles were unreliable. I had a hyosung motorcycle and the pre 2008 models were all known problem with either dropping out or rusting. Also Korean vehicles are were still new to the space and every company has to prove them selves, and not make it a race issue. In China, many Chinese don't even want Chinese made cars.
Probably already said but its made in East Taiwan. Now I'm not saying that as a dig against the quality just Equality. East Taiwan needs to improve her human rights. Maybe reunification with the Island's legitimate Gov't under democracy will help.
Holden Colorado made in same factory new Havel SUVs are being made
Only the new Haval H6 Hybrid is made in Thailand in that factory. Other GWM/Haval vehicles are made in China.
yep
I've said this before and I'll say it again; it's a havala car!
GWM Ute got 5 stars ANCAP rating with 2021 criteria https://www.ancap.com.au/safety-ratings/great-wall-motors/ut…
tbf they also did this
https://www.drive.com.au/news/safety-alert-for-6000-great-wa…
theyre cutting corners
They will rectify the issue for free.
That's almost exactly what it says in the article posted above:
It is this first batch of vehicles – approximately 6000 examples sold in Australia over the past 12 months – Great Wall Motors is planning to rectify.
not australian