Should I Help out My Tenants?

Divad on 20/06/2022 - 00:12
Last edited 21/06/2022 - 14:35

Hi Ozbargainers,

Please help me settle an argument with my SO.

We are currently renting out my apartment to two overseas students who have recently arrived in Sydney. This week they complained that the fluorescent ceiling lights in their bedrooms are too dim and have asked me to replace them with LED downlight fixtures. In my opinion, the lights are fine (no complaints from previous tenants) and if anything they only need to be replaced with new fluorescent tubes. All of which can be easily done with a quick visit to Bunnings.

Now here is where I got annoyed. The two tenants and my own real estate agent insist that I pay for an electrician / handyman to install new LED downlights at a quote of $260.

To me this is insane and a HUGE waste of money…BUT my partner (who was once an overseas student herself) is much more empathetic, explaining that they are new to living abroad and by themselves. She thinks that I should either help them out by buying new fluorescent light bulbs and change it for them or otherwise she is willing to pay for the handyman to install new LED lights.

What do you guys think? Please vote below and let me hear your opinions.

UPDATE: Hi all, I thought I might give an update for closure. I didn't expect there to be so many responses! I ended running to Bunnings and changing the lights for our tenants. I know I'm not legally obligated but I wanted to help them out just this once as they seem like decent people. I ended up replacing the fluorescence tubes with LED tubes (no new fittings required). They were much brighter which addressed their problem. Thanks Ozbargain!

Poll Options

  • 466
    Tell them to sort it out. Either pay for it themselves or go to Bunnings!
  • 258
    Be a nice landlord and go replace the lightbulbs for them!
  • 95
    Fire my real estate agent
  • 79
    You should pay the $260 to install new LED lights for your tenants
Home & Garden

Comments

  • SF3 on 20/06/2022 - 00:16
    +37

    Sliver lining, at least it’s tax deductible.

    Question is, will OzB poll defeat OP or OP's SO?

    • resubaehtgnolhcs on 20/06/2022 - 10:19
      -3

      Sliver lining, at least it’s tax deductible.

      Is it though? I thought only repairs were tax deductible on an investment property, not upgrades.

      • gyrex on 20/06/2022 - 10:57
        +1

        Improvements and repairs are tax deductible.

        • resubaehtgnolhcs on 20/06/2022 - 11:57
          +1

          Thanks for the clarification!

          I have just done some more research and can see that improvements (capital works/capital allowances) are tax deductible. Another valuable lesson that I have learnt on Ozbargain!

      • RMBC on 20/06/2022 - 12:20
        +17

        Improvements are capital, and likely depreciable, repairs and maintenance are deductible.

        Improvements if less than $300 the deduction is immediate, if more than $300 it's depreciable

  • Iwantthebestprice on 20/06/2022 - 00:16
    +30

    Just send them a lamp to use in the bedroom

    • SlickMick on 20/06/2022 - 09:48
      +19

      A lamp is the answer, but tenant can provide.

    • jellykingdom on 20/06/2022 - 09:56
      +2

      I was going to say the same thing

      I'd warn you though; need to be careful about tenants plugging in a million devices. Granted my apartment was old, but my last tenants set fire to the fuse box by plugging in daisy chains of power boards, multiple fan heaters, etc. Cost me $700 to have the fusebox repaired and upgraded

      • Quantumcat on 20/06/2022 - 12:29
        +1

        Shouldn't the tenants have paid for it since they caused it? Or was the fusebox really old and would have been able to handle it if it was newer?

        • jellykingdom on 20/06/2022 - 12:48
          +1

          Yeah it was old, no RCDs in older places. Not unsafe obviously, it wasn't legally required to be upgraded or anything unless you are doing work to the board, as far as i'm aware. Electrician didn't even mention that it had been due, he just told me how many powerboards he had seen plugged into other powerboards. Because it was old, and double brick, there aren't heaps of powerpoints around. I figured it was probably debatable whether this should be my problem or theirs

          But it was the last straw for moving them on their way, and doing some renos, then getting a better tenant

          • Franc-T on 20/06/2022 - 17:07
            +9

            @jellykingdom: It was unsafe if the fuse box caught fire.

            • harrywwc on 21/06/2022 - 07:19

              @Franc-T: any device used 'wrongly' enough can become a 'smoke machine'

          • johno3456 on 21/06/2022 - 20:59
            +1

            @jellykingdom: Depends on the state, many jurisdictions have or are forcing rcds and other upgrades on to rentals. In Vic, i had a 15amp circuit off rcd, old aircon, needed to be put on Rcd or disabled. Some states have requirements for all circuits including fixed, aircon oven etc to be upgraded to rcd.

    • El-Rhi on 20/06/2022 - 20:15
      +1

      Bright idea

    • duchy on 20/06/2022 - 14:25
      +3

      Funny… 😀

      We need sarcasm tag for these posts.

    • Jackson on 21/06/2022 - 18:08

      Maybe she has already joined them, and that's why she's batting for the tenants?

    • Cyphar on 22/06/2022 - 11:52

      You know there are tenancy laws in place that stop that (profanity) behaviour, right?

  • [Deactivated] on 20/06/2022 - 00:26
    +18

    who uses the overhead lights in a bedroom? they should just buy a 20 dollar lamp.

    • MrBear on 20/06/2022 - 10:20
      +79

      Who has fluorescent ceiling lights in a bedroom??? Sounds like a gaol cell.

      • johnno07 on 20/06/2022 - 12:42
        +11

        I'm picturing an internal 1-bedder in a rabbit warren of a student accomodation building.

        Sounds like a gaol cell

        So yes.

      • SierraBMel on 20/06/2022 - 22:35
        +3

        In the Aughts, a lot of “power efficient” fittings that places like Ikea and bunnings sold were a circular or partial circular fluorescent bulb with an opaque diffuser /shade panel of some nature.

      • ItsMeAgro on 21/06/2022 - 09:52
        +3

        Who has fluorescent ceiling lights in a bedroom??? Sounds like a gaol cell

        And what electrician charges only $260 to replace it with LED downlights?

        Do they mean just replacing with one metal arm with 3 or 4 downlights on it, or a proper job with 12V and 4 holes in the ceiling?

        If the latter, then $260 is probably a bargain. And since it's an upgrade to the property, I'd happily pay it (as a landlord myself).

  • Pelicannn on 20/06/2022 - 00:31
    +21

    Probably should have seen that when they inspected it.

    I think if you offer to replace the tubes that’s more than acceptable, especially given that light globes are the responsibility of tenants to replace anyway.

  • avocatto on 20/06/2022 - 00:42
    +85

    find a less brain-dead real estate agent imo

  • tonka on 20/06/2022 - 00:50
    +33

    Neither, send them a link to buy a lamp at Kmart. If you baby them they will continue to be babies. If real estate agent really did insist that, get rid of them ASAP.
    https://www.kmart.com.au/product/upright-floor-lamp-42479901…?
    https://www.kmart.com.au/product/desk-lamp-black-42912309/

    • s1Lence on 21/06/2022 - 19:14

      Wow didn't know a lamp like that first one would be so cheap, are those any good for reading at night so I don't have to get out of bed to turn the lights off?

      • tonka on 21/06/2022 - 23:15

        I got a couple, didn't put the shade part on when I assembled and put a big 30W LED bulb on instead. Like these https://tinyurl.com/2f7wfcpp

      • Richardc on 22/06/2022 - 20:19

        It's cheap because you need to buy your own globe.

  • Hybroid on 20/06/2022 - 00:53
    +12

    I pay for an electrician / handyman to install new LED downlights at a quote of $260.

    I think you can get them done for $30+GST under the NSW upgrade scheme.

    https://www.energysaver.nsw.gov.au/browse-energy-offers/hous…

    • 82norm on 20/06/2022 - 09:03
      +2

      That’s only to replace existing halogens to LED.

    • Jackson on 21/06/2022 - 18:14

      Came just to upvote this. Someone will come to your house and change all the globes for 30 bucks, everyone is happy.

      Even if you couldn't get this done, you can always tell them to do it themselves if they can find a bulb at bunnings. It's not that hard if they have a ladder.

  • Gervais fanboy on 20/06/2022 - 00:56

    Hey

    Can’t you just replace them yourself ?
    Legally, is there something stopping you from doing that ?

    • Pelicannn on 20/06/2022 - 01:21
      +12

      From fluorescent to LED? Depends on the wiring involved but most likely needs to be done by a qualified electrician. I doubt it would be plug and play.

    • deme on 20/06/2022 - 09:42
      +5

      Yes… an electricians license. It's not just changing a bulb.

    • derrida derider on 20/06/2022 - 14:14
      +6

      You can buy drop in replacement LED tubes to fit fluorescent lights - see eg https://www.bunnings.com.au/deta-18w-1900lm-warm-white-led-t….

      Very little dearer, no rewiring, lasts pretty much forever and much more light.

      • pbywater on 20/06/2022 - 21:55

        Don’t forget you need an LED ballast too!

        • turnip on 21/06/2022 - 09:45

          Is it a safety thing? I swapped one of those into my house when my old fluro died and didnt need a ballast.

          Just put it in the tube and the dummy starter that came with it and has been working fine for over a year.

        • Brumby92 on 22/06/2022 - 21:06

          It comes in the box. Truly plug and play.

  • trustnoone on 20/06/2022 - 01:03
    +10

    in their bedrooms are too dim and have asked me to replace them with LED downlight fixtures

    Is the lights dim? Flurocent lights normally aren't so they could be faulty? (whether your last tenant agrees or not). Depending on how its set up/state laws etc it could be your side to replace them (typically if they required like a ladder or are specialist lights etc) I'm not a lawyer but you might want to check this.

    LED Downlight fixtures is an odd ask though, I also find them to be less bright then a fluorescent. Odd that the real estate agent pushed for it also.

    I actually wonder if there's more to it the this? Did the tenants complain of a faulty/dim light that they can't study and the real estate agent has a mate who can put in LED lights and he's trying to get a kick back off it so he pushed for the LED downlights? Is the fixture itself faulty and the tenant and agent just want it fixed (still odd to ask for LED downlights specifically). Do you get something for using LED lights (some areas I've heard get gov support of some sort for making the switch).

    I just feel the answer here is a bit too obvious that I wanted to put some other thoughts in mind.

    • corollachick on 20/06/2022 - 16:07
      +5

      user name checks out

  • Some Human on 20/06/2022 - 01:05
    +6

    Why do they need bright lights in the bedroom?
    What are they filming doing in there?

    • rickxs on 20/06/2022 - 04:57
      +2

      Who are they doing in there ?

    • jjjaar on 20/06/2022 - 10:26
      +3

      If it’s a smaller unit that doesn’t have another space, they may also have their desks in there and that’s where they spend all their study time. It’s fair to want bright lights in that set up.

      • Quantumcat on 20/06/2022 - 12:29
        +1

        Surely lamps would be better, overhead lighting doesn't help much at a desk as your body is in the way and creates shadows.

        • jjjaar on 20/06/2022 - 13:57
          +1

          Oh, I’m not debating that, it would be easier and quicker for them to just go buy some, especially to achieve the brightness they desire. There’s a risk that even if OP did upgrade it, it’s still not as they want.

          Just saying I can understand why it might need to be more lit than for a typical bedroom.

    • Xuaxace on 20/06/2022 - 21:16
      +1

      I like to read in my bed. in my previous rental the lights were dim and there was no easy way to get a lamp overhead near the bed so it was pretty annoying.

  • kobeduck on 20/06/2022 - 01:07
    +11

    LEDs cost less to run than inefficient fluorescent lights. Maybe it's a cost saving request?

    • Presence on 20/06/2022 - 10:06
      +7

      Fluros are pretty good already. Hardly worth the effort if they are in good condition.

      • WhyAmICommenting on 20/06/2022 - 18:28
        +4

        But fluro light is kinda gross.

        • Presence on 20/06/2022 - 18:31
          +3

          They sure are, but the tenants agreed to it when they moved in. If they dont like it they can buy their own tubes and swap them back when they leave, or buy a lamp.

    • Oz em on 20/06/2022 - 12:57

      My thought too

    • Some Human on 20/06/2022 - 13:10
      +1

      That would be my thought. But they could just buy some lamps and not hassle the landlord, whom may in turn raise the rent to cover the expense.

  • hasher22 on 20/06/2022 - 01:09
    +14

    Can't they just buy a tube that emits a brighter light or buy the tube in LED?

    LED Tube: https://reductionrevolution.com.au/products/philips-led-tube…

    • havebeerbelywillsumo on 20/06/2022 - 01:59
      +3

      Thanks for that never even knew these existed (and read the blurb on the link too re starters and how these work) - wonder if they're stocked by ColesWorth (so I can pick up myself)

      • OZKap on 20/06/2022 - 12:17
        +1

        If you've got one near you, Lawrence and Hanson stocks LED replacement tubes in 2 and 4 foot lengths. They've got a colour selection switch between daylight, cool white, warm white. For legal reasons I am obligated to tell you that you need an electricians licence to install them, and ARE NOT ALLOWED TO simply replace the old started with the included fuse, and the fluoro tube with the LED.

        • derrida derider on 20/06/2022 - 14:18
          +1

          Your local Bunnings will have them. No one buys actual fluorescent tubes these days.

        • havebeerbelywillsumo on 20/06/2022 - 14:20

          Thanks-godawful website full of generalities but no search bar for specifics - no branch near me anyway.

          Had a quick look at Bunnings (sorry WT, missed your post) but (unless I stuffed up) reductionrevolution leaves them in the shade (LOL) tho light-strength of 600MM tubes is still a concerning mystery to me….they may have had 6500K now only 4000K??

          "For legal reasons I am obligated…." HUH?

          • OZKap on 20/06/2022 - 14:30

            @havebeerbelywillsumo: Yeah the L+H site is awful unless you have an account.

            "For legal reasons I am obligated…." HUH?

            The tubes all come with warnings that they are to be installed by a licenced electrician, and are not for DIY use.

        • UltimateAI on 21/06/2022 - 23:00
          +1

          Quote from the box "No electrician required in most cases"
          Only need an electrician "IF" \ only in the event your ballast isn't compatible. Philips ones are highly compatible even with the old school starters.

    • WT on 20/06/2022 - 07:39
      +2

      yea you can get led replacements from bunnings

    • Flying Ace on 21/06/2022 - 11:50
      -2

      If they're international students, they are quite possibly unaware of the various lighting options around, especially if English is not their first language.

    • Brumby92 on 22/06/2022 - 21:08

      The exact one I bought. Works well if thats the type of light OP has. If its the round style a product might not exist.

  • screensaver on 20/06/2022 - 06:35
    +4

    The Govt will pay for it with an electrician its only $33, I got a flyer, to install LED lights

    • Presence on 20/06/2022 - 10:07

      To remove and replace the entire fitting or just the bulb?

    • Steptoe on 20/06/2022 - 20:56
      +1

      Most are for MR16 Halogen Lamps. Link for $33 fluoro swap out?

      • OmNomNomagon on 22/06/2022 - 16:19

        yeah, as far as I can see the NSW fluoro swap out is only available for businesses.

  • screensaver on 20/06/2022 - 06:38
    +5

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    • jellykingdom on 20/06/2022 - 09:57

      Surely this is only for low-income earners?

      • tofuofdoom on 20/06/2022 - 12:37

        Nah, it's available to all. We got it done a year or two ago

  • Euphemistic on 20/06/2022 - 06:58
    +1

    What do the tenancy rules say about it? I suspect you don’t HAVE to pay for it.

    Ultimately It’s not a huge amount of money and upping the rent by $5/week will cover it in a year.

    • Alligate on 20/06/2022 - 21:11
      +2

      Yeah, a landlord pitching a fit over $260 is a bad sign.

      • secondstory on 21/06/2022 - 14:06
        +1

        It sounds like the lease just started at the agreed rate and the first thing they do is expect an upgrade. It's more of an annoyance that a different tenant could have moved in and been fine with it. Sometimes landlords just barely break even on the property and don't want to raise the rent.

        Also I wouldn't spend $260 on myself to upgrade the lighting. At my place I just got a couple additional light stands and changed to brighter bulbs - totalled about $50 and worked great.

  • rhimes on 20/06/2022 - 07:13
    +2

    Some of the old CCFLs are pretty dim. Don't swap out the whole fitting though - just find a drop in replacement.

    Unless you have bar style fluoros in the bedrooms, in which case do the full swap.

  • payless69 on 20/06/2022 - 07:24
    +5

    Fluoro tubes at Woolies used to $2.40 ea . We rented a shop from an old greedy Italian and we replaced them with NEC brand tri phosphorous.
    It made the place nice and bright.
    When we handed back the shop we re-installed brand new $2.40 tubes.
    Upon key return, the landlord took some convincing that he got all brand new tubes for free, we gave him a copy of the receipt.
    He left it that way and could never rent the shop again, it looks just way too dim!

    I would say: fine bargains here and fire the useless agent!

  • AndyC1 on 20/06/2022 - 07:43
    +1

    Get new fluro starter and new tubes and replace them yourself. If they still have an issue then they can suck it up as the fluro lights were in there when they moved in.

    Fluro tubes do dim over the long term ( at least a few years or more).

  • terrys on 20/06/2022 - 08:14
    +1

    $20 gets them a 14 watt LED replacement tubes with replacement starter @ Bunnings - if they need brighter than 2100 lumen [ > 2 150 watt incandescent bulbs] they'll need industrial arc-lights..

    It's a good thing they didn't travel to Germany - it was the case that tenants not only supplied their own bulbs/tubes, but their own fittings. The plumbing ware was supplies tho.

    I'm nearly 70 and read by the setting sunlight - if they are for some funny reason using a non-backlit LCD monitor they should replace it - are they perhaps running a streaming studio???

  • CyberMurning on 20/06/2022 - 08:26

    get new SO !

    • dust on 20/06/2022 - 08:41
      +3

      Probably even more expensive.

  • wei13 on 20/06/2022 - 08:30
    +1

    Tell them it's more romantic this way

  • [Deactivated] on 20/06/2022 - 08:39
    +3

    lights in their bedrooms are too dim

    Lights in the bedroom are supposed to be dimmer than the rest of the house. I’ve had electricians tell me that when I wanted to convert a feature light to downlights in a bedroom myself.

    There’s either one of two things going on:
    1) need brighter light to study in the bedroom (solution: desk lamp/clip on book lamp)
    2) filming ahh… material 😉 (solution: proper drop lights)

    Neither of which are your problem,
    Edit: you neglect to say if you’re supplying the unit as furnished or not. In which case issue 1) may be your problem potentially

    • samfisher5986 on 20/06/2022 - 08:47
      +3

      How do you figure out that he's being paid a premium? Crystal ball?

      • FourBeanMix on 20/06/2022 - 12:14
        -2

        Poor choice of words on my part, what I meant is that they’re paying a lot of money. I suppose the OP might be asking a fair price.

        • samfisher5986 on 20/06/2022 - 14:56

          Aren't you still saying the same thing? Who is paying a lot of money?

        • brendanm on 20/06/2022 - 17:40
          +1

          They agreed to pay the agreed upon price, with the place in the condition it was in when they inspected in. The fluros were there at that time, they still chose to rent it

  • samfisher5986 on 20/06/2022 - 08:49
    +3

    I would have a conversation with the tenants, if they are polite and simply asking and respond well when you suggest swapping the tubes out, then I would just pay for it.

    However if they act demanding as if they are owed it, then I would do nothing. The second you give in to a demanding and unreasonable person they will simply ask for more and more.

    • UFO on 23/06/2022 - 00:36

      I don't care if they as nice as pie and have rainbows coming out of the their behinds. If you want to replace completely functional lighting fit for purpose in a bedroom, then the landlord shouldn't even be bothered on this. The agent should have nipped this in the bud straight up.

      • samfisher5986 on 23/06/2022 - 08:30

        So you would never do something for your tenants unless you are legally required to? Ok…

  • netjock on 20/06/2022 - 08:53
    -3

    For $260 replace it. Get your tax deduction. Increase rent $10 a week later to recover. Got bigger problems than $260.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 20/06/2022 - 08:57
    +2

    Probably need more 'information' about the lease agreement and tenant behaviour.

    If i thought the tenants were 'good tenants' ie been renting the house >18months with no complaints and always paid there rent on time (within reason) - i'd probably do as they are more likely to stick around.

    If i didnt know the tenants and they are just demanding i would tell them to pay for it themselves but give approval for 'them' to pay an registered electrician to change the lights

    • Stopback on 20/06/2022 - 09:34
      -6

      no complaints

      Lol. I bet your home is substandard and you just don't want to repair anything

      Real Tennant's should be complaining you don't think most houses have issues every year

      • Trying2SaveABuck on 20/06/2022 - 09:42
        +1

        Real Tennant's should be complaining you don't think most houses have issues every year

        by 'all means' they should be complaining where the LL needs to ensure fittings are in good working order but in this case the lights OP is posting about are 'fine' he is under no legal obligation to change them as they are in 'good working order' the 'light dimness/brightness' is a personal preference thus the cost should be pasted on to the tenant.

        As for my home it does the job my rental property has had the same tenants in it for 3 years (who are rent-vests themselves) so it cant be that 'bad' otherwise i'd say they could always live in there own investment property…

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