![[NSW] Free EV Charging (Save $0.60/kWh) @ Ampol Alexandria Sydney](https://files.ozbargain.com.au/n/87/714387.jpg?h=f8944a24)
Free until 31/08/2022. Saving 60 cents per kWh. The site has one ABB Terra184 DC fast charger unit which has both a CCS2 and a CHAdeMO port. The chargers are capable of charging up to 150kW using the CCS2 port.
[NSW] Free EV Charging (Save $0.60/kWh) @ Ampol Alexandria Sydney
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Plus your BS EV tax.
TM3 kWh/100km is 15.1 in Electric vehicle database. $/100km will be $9. At home it will be $3, and so the difference at home is $14-3= $11 per 100 km
Given that EVs is about $20000 or more over the equivalent ICE/Hybrid (say a base model Y vs a top spec RAV 4 hybrid), I will have to drive ($20000/$11x100km=) 181818 km before the extra cost of the BEV balances out.
Or…get a second hand LEAF for around $20-25k which is roughly equivalent to a brand new cheap small car.
The LEAF would be 6-10 years old, so should still have about 10-15year's life in it (will be even longer if cheaper replacement batteries become available from NZ).
In those 10-15 years most cheap small cars would be mostly depreciated and would start needing big repair costs so most people would have churned before that.
Your savings during those 10-15 years would have paid for the cost of the vehicle. ($11 per 100km x 15,000km/year = $1650/year, 10years = $16500 and 15 years = $24750) And that's just fuel, not including the much lower maintenance costs. Actually my fuel costs is almost free because of free chargers dotted around. If petrol prices go up even more you will save even more.
You can even throw in a couple of thousand in rental cars for those rare out of town trips and it will still make financial sense.get a second hand LEAF for around $20-25k which is roughly equivalent to a brand new cheap small car.
Lol this is the delusion of the EV cult. Buy a PoS old car about to die for the same price as a brand new car. What is in your cereal…
@1st-Amendment: Well don't get it then. My bargain price PoS old EV is far from dying and saving me money for many years to come.
I do still need good folk to buy my other petrol car when I replace it with a newer EV in the next few years so please stay sceptical.Well don't get it then
This is the great thing about freedom, you get to do what you want and I get to do what I want and we're both happy.
Let's all help keep freedom alive!
@edvoon: Sorry but you're not comparing like for like. A similar 6 yr old small car will probably be 10-15 k cheaper. At 6 yr old, I'd be worried about the capacity of the battery, especially if it is approaching 100000km, and a new one for the smaller pack is $10k, with the larger pack likely to be $13-15k.
I don't believe a 6-10 yr old small car from Japan or South Korea will give any issues needing big repair cost compared to a new battery as long as you regularly change the lubricants and service items on time. Maintenance cost will be more for ICE cars but the biggest items are usually at 100000km such as the timing belt if the engine has one. And even then it's not going to be anywhere near the $10k that a new battery pack will cost.
If I want to be more pedantic, a hybrid will probably use less than the 7 L/100km, and 91 fuel is often $1.80 and not the $2/L that is used in this calculation (though financial calculation for this is more for new car comparisons, as hybrid resale prices are still fairly high to compare to your second hand LEAF)
There are advantages to going electric, but financial benefit is not going to be one of them.
Here in QLD, you can charge your ev on controlled load tariffs which is about 18c per kWh.
Given that EVs is about $20000 or more over the equivalent ICE/Hybrid
I just bought a used car for $4k. Show me an EV that comes close to that with the same range and cost of ownership
so you didn' get the model 3 early then because you would have gotten free unlimited charging with all tesla super chargers.
That was never an option with the Model 3.
Free if you have solar installed and have it only charge when you have excess.
if you own a tesla and you use tesla charging stations, most models offer free unlimited charging for the lift of the vechical. So I think you need to pick the right EV car and the right charging station to benefit. https://www.findmyelectric.com/blog/tesla-free-unlimited-sup…
Not Model 3s
yes when the first models 3s were released it was offered as a perk they stoped doing that now. Though for people that preordered and got the first models 3 would have got the free unlimited charging.
I think I've sussed the Caltex - Ampol rebrand, and I'm quite impressed at the foresight. Leverage the 'AMP' in Ampol, bring out a product named AMPcharge (AMPol / AMPs of current), then sell AMPcharge as a domestic in-home product…they're positioning for a future where servos just aren't as relevant any more (in the cities - they'll always be needed out on the highways).
Nope. Caltex wanted a gazillion in licence fees to use brand. So they brought back ampol.
Nup. The company who owns the Caltex brand name wanted to rebrand some servos they already own (Puma) to Caltex so the naming agreement they had with the existing operator ended and they had to rebrand. They simply rolled back to the name they already owned
Not sure why so much hate on EVs… This is an amazing deal! Too bad I'm in Melbourne.
Like most people have said, yes $0.60/kWh is crazy expensive compared to charging at home. But the benefit here is that it's ultra-fast charging, which means you don't want to sit and wait hours for a charge if you're on holiday and driving around.
I've just hit 12756 km mileage on my odometer, and I've paid a total of $180.61 in charging costs. Until all the free chargers at shopping centres go extinct, it is still incredibly cheap to maintain an EV (not to mention, there's no scheduled servicing on the car).
Maybe because the site has 2 chargers, and there might be a hundred EVs around Sydney wanting a free charge.
Yes, stupid EV drivers who will clearly drive across town and line up to pay more for their charge than they do at home. Sounds like a real problem. /s
Not sure why so much hate on EVs…
I don't hate EV's, I'll happily buy one if the sums add up, but for me and lots of others they don't right now. And when you hear EV zealots claim 'it's good for me, you can eat cake' it all sound a bit too elitist.
I'll use you comment as an example:
"which means you don't want to sit and wait hours for a charge if you're on holiday and driving around."EV infra is very thin on the ground and will be for some time (despite all the good intentions - economic reality is a hard pill to swallow). So what happens when I take my road-trip and that one charger I plan on using is occupied or faulty? eg I was in Homebush Olympic Park one time, a popular spot for work and play and they had two EV chargers, both of which were out of order at the time. Imagine you turn up to work or a game low on charge and now you have no way to get home?
Right now today I don't have that problem with my current car. Why would I pay much more money to introduce potential problems like this into my life that I'm currently immune to?
not to mention, there's no scheduled servicing on the car
Well apart from brakes, tyres, wipers, fluids etc. Changing the oil once a year is not as huge problem as EV people like to make out.
Fair points.
Yeah so since I got my Model 3 Standard Range+ (which I think is a key point in the story), I've done a Melbourne <> Canberra trip and a Melbourne <> Sydney trip.
When I first got the car, I had huge "range anxiety" as they call it, whereas, even at 80% I would be constantly trying to find a charger anywhere I go. I just had this mentality that I should keep whatever electronics I have (like my phone) as close to 100% as possible.
The longer you drive the car for, the more you understand the economics behind the battery and can plan ahead.
EV infra is very thin on the ground and will be for some time
Yep, I agree. If there were more chargers, it'd definitely make the lives of all EV drivers a lot smoother. However, in both my long distance driving trips, I had passed so many Chargefox locations, which at least have 4 available ultra-rapid chargers, as well as a number of Tesla Supercharger locations which have somewhere between 4-6 ultra-rapid chargers. The latter is relevant as I understand that non-Tesla EVs cannot use the Supercharger network at this current time, and so that's one of the major advantages of getting a Tesla currently. The network locations are pretty strategic, and doesn't require much of a detour to get to them. Even, when I was coming back from Canberra to Melbourne during ANZAC day weekend, that was peak holiday traffic and the chargers were relatively occupied, but because they were ultra-fast chargers, the amount of time waiting for the next available charger was pretty minimal (at the moment vs number of EVs on the road).
The main drawback of charging is really that you have to pre-plan your trip. For these long distance trips, you'd need to use an app such as PlugShare to understand the route and stops you'll be taking for your charging before actually making the trip. This is something you wouldn't really need to do with an ICE, because there's so many petrol stations around you can just find the closest one.
If you pre-plan like me, and you do long trips, you can just take the charge time (approximately 45 minutes - 1 hour) to just stretch your legs, grab a coffee, toilet break or have lunch/dinner. That's what we did — by the time we finished ordering/eating the food and getting back to the car, it was fully charged, and it was something that we'd have to do anyways. Of course, not viable for people that do non-stop driving.
Well apart from brakes, tyres, wipers, fluids etc. Changing the oil once a year is not as huge problem as EV people like to make out.
Yes these consumables, EVs would also have to change so it's not fair to compare. But it's more the bigger services that tend to make a difference, not to mention the fact that regenerative braking should reduce the wear of the brake discs so that the need to change them is much less than an ICE.
All in all, EVs are not for everyone (at the moment). There's a group of people, mostly the younger generation, or those in which have already have a plan (like my dad who also purchased a Model 3 at the same time as me) would find a benefit. For example, my dad has currently raked around 8000 kms on his odometer, and he has paid a total of $0.00 for charging. How? He lives in the west of Melbourne and works in the east of Melbourne (approximately 70-75kms round trip a day). His company parking lot has an EV charger, and no one in his company except him and another guy has an EV yet. So, he's been just pure profit in comparison to his old Ford Fiesta.
All in all, EVs are not for everyone (at the moment). There's a group of people, mostly the younger generation, or those in which have already have a plan
Hey look don't take my comment the wrong way, I see EV's as a useful part of the transport mix, especially in larger cities. I was just answering the question of 'why so much hate on EV's'. I don't hate EV's, I actually find the technology quite interesting and would happily buy one (I own an electric bike and would buy an electric motorbike tomorrow if anyone made one for a decent price), but there is a small noisy section of the EV-evangelist crowd that seem to think what is good for them is good for everyone. That part is the part I push back against.
Thank you, for this write up.
There is one coming to Melbourne in August:
Ampol Foodary Altona North
1 Horsburgh Drive, Altona North, VIC 30254 bays – 2 x CCS2, 2 x CHAdeMO
Charging up to 150kWAnd heaps more coming - they've got a grant to install 120 across Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth, by the end of 2023 - and no doubt more in other regions after that.
And heaps more coming - they've got a grant to install 120 across Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne and Perth, by the end of 2023
Only 120 in a year and half?
There's 20 million registered cars in Australia roughly how many public chargers do you think will be required to service that amount of EV's?
I can't seem to find this number but it seems to be in the range 1:10 to 1:50, so that's at least 299,880 chargers to go…And with the rollout of 400,000 chargers, what is the electric grid upgrade requirement and cost to support such a thing? And who's paying for that?
Nah not convinced
electric cars will ruin the great Australian weekend /sDay to day how many people would use these compared to just plugging in at home.
Apart from the road trip, wouldn’t most not need it?
(Of course acknowledging people with no off street parking or apartments without charging facilities)
Another aspect is business vehicles. People not willing to plug in at home as they'd wear the cost to charge vs using a company supplied "fuel card"
Fair.
if a bsuiness has the choice of giving an allowance to charge at home vs petrol card ….. i think home allowance would save them money …..even home charge vs rapid charge card ……
Anybody ever remember when lpg conversion was all the rage and is like 60c. A couple of years later it is $1.10+. Is this going to go the same way?
Doubtful. Until they work out how to seperate home power from car charging. Also regulating the sun.
The NSW Premier has already said, that in 2-3 years' time,
all EVs will need to pay 2.5-cents per km travelled.
What? LPG is currently less than HALF the price of E10 (let alone 95 or 98). And if you have an injected LPG setup (like the eco LPI Falcons) you're way ahead of petrol prices.
LPG is like 20L/100, or roughly double 91
No it isn't. Real world on something like a late model Falcon (with a Barra) consumption of 12.5/100 for vapour LPG and around 10/100 for Petrol. Liquid LPG injection is only a touch more than Petrol at around 11/100 but with benefit of making more power (yes more) and more responsive engine. LPG has historically been about half the price of petrol (and still is) if there was no financial benefit you wouldnt see taxi running around with them. Lately though the Hybrib Camry is the go to with Falcon being canned in Oz
60c p/kWh is ludicrous, our business pays 9c and the EVSE hardware is $1500 at most.
If you've got a large range, paying that premium often is kinda crazy.
Charging fast often is also a good way to diminish battery health and ruin resale.
If you can't charge at home perhaps a hybrid is a better option, you'll probably safe more long term and not have to worry about the charging infrastructure.
I'm saving $100-125 per month in fuel charging at work which the boss allows at no cost to me versus an economical ICE/hybrid vehicle. Each daily charge is a maximum of $1 so the company see it as offering a good value perk. Last month was ~400kwh, so $35.
What I didn't do is to spend almost $100K on an EV to negate all that fuel saving, instead opting for a used $50K alternative. There's no point saving ok fuel by spending more than the savings up front.
What EV did you buy for $50k?
you could get a tesla model 3 for that if your trade in price is good for you old petrol car.
You're still spending $50K plus what your trade in was worth, so a lot more than $50K, most people spend $80K+ on a Tesla. Very, very few less than $70K.
I'm not bagging Tesla, but they aren't for everyone, they have amazing HMI but the absolute worst quality build, handling, brake feel, driving dynamics etc. which is kind of what you'd expect from a Chinese built American start up, the price is right though for what you get.
Plenty available, jump on carsales and sort by price.
mate, $1500 EVSE is not fast charger. At most you get 22kW and that is if your car hardware supports it. Most car gets 7 or 11kW depending on the # of phase and on board charger.
The hardware for fast charger (anything above 150kW) is very expensive. On top of hardware cost, you need to have the infrastructure/grid distributor to support it. I would pay 60c per kW if I am on a road trip because it charges way faster. All it takes is a dunny break to get to 80% before I am on my way again
Cost is subjective.. but 50K gets you brand new MG EV or BYD
Mate, our $1500 EVSE is a level 2 charger, that's not the fastest, but it is significantly faster than the standard 250V home/travel charger.
It charges at 420V, 32 amps and tops up most Tesla's in a few hours, all the BMW i3's (at a reduced 16amp) in a couple hours as well as the Korean and Japanese EV's just as quickly.
Mate, that’s 22kW vs 150kW
Hours vs minutes, big difference
Ps: my wall charger at home also does 22kW. Fairly common if you have 3 phase. Single phase 7kW
our business pays 9c and the EVSE hardware is $1500 at most.
Your business doesn't charge a car at 150 kW.
Charging fast often is also a good way to diminish battery health and ruin resale.
Only if your car is a 10 year old Nissan Leaf
What chemical technology is in your batteries that differs from any other EV from the same year? I assume it's just the same old lion stuff Korea and Germany are using?
Almost all manufacturers admit faster charging and charging to 100% (which most manufactures limit to 80%) statistically reduces battery life.
I claimed my work charges cars at 150kW?
No, I'm showing that what your business has installed and what Ampol has installed are completely different things.
@chuq: I'm aware of that, my point stands though.
Paying to charge that fast and degrade the battery faster when an EVSE capable of level 2 charging is $1500 installed at the most is ludicrous.Unless you don't have a garage.
You just didn't read my original post carfully enough.
I wonder if Ampol really understands how EV Drivers actually charge.
The location of this charger looks like it's been decided by management who have probably never driven an EV before and just decided to put the first ones where the population is densest, not where it's needed most.Instead of putting their first chargers smack bang in the middle of the city, they should have put it on their highway rest stations between cities.
Yes we'll happily use it when it's free, but when they start costing money, why should anyone use this charger when these free or cheaper options are available?
1) 2x Free Chademo/CCS2 fast chargers at Eveleigh less than 1km away
2) 1x Chademo at $0.40 at East Village less than 1km away
3) 1x Jolt Chademo/CCS2 at Kensington just over 1km away - first 7kWh free.
Maybe if all these are occupied and someone is desperate for a charge then they might think about using this Ampol charging station, or when EV uptake gets high enough that a lot of locals who don't have off-street parking start filling up the alternative charging locations. But this could have been put in later after they first install it where it's really needed.Where we desperately need an Ampol Charging station is between Sydney and Newcastle where there is a charging desert (e.g. at the big rest station in Wyong). Even at $0.60/kWh I'd happily pay it if it lets me get to Newcastle when I couldn't before.(Yes I drive an older EV that can barely reach 100km on the freeway)
I’m wondering if Ampol want people to get used to forget charging overnight and doing a quick top up. Or to become ingrained in the mind of drivers as the place to charge.
Because really, Ampol is screwed as a business. EV charging stations are going to be nowhere near as common as petrol stations in the future and that’s their entire business model. If all they wind up with is a handful of long haul sites, competing with everyone else sticking them in, they’re not going to last as a business. Might as well try out whatever ideas they can now, while they have time.
You’re totally right, but ampol must be terrified right now. Like Kodak or blockbuster levels of terrified.
I’m wondering if Ampol want people to get used to forget charging overnight and doing a quick top up.
https://ampcharge.ampol.com.au/charging-at-home
They have home charging as one of their product offerings.
Tesla Tom did a bit of a review of the station for anyone interested: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuwjDDC7WP0&t=288s
Shame its only 1 CCS2 connector and limited only to 70kw max
Yeah seems a bit limited for the kind of think Ampol is going to be rolling out everywhere. Wouldn't you want to future proof your chargers somewhat? Not start them at such a slow speed? But anyway I suppose it's better than nothing. I charge the vast majority at home so won't really affect me or plenty of other EV owners who do similarly.
its not a telsta super charger so it will not charge quick. not worth it if you want to go from 0 to 100% quickly
if you are using poverty pack tesla, you max out at 170kW. So 150kW is plenty fast
What's more relevant is probably the charging curve
It's 150 kW, it's not going to be noticeably different for most drivers.
0 to 100% charge isn't that the difference between waiting 2 hours or 2 and half hours? of charging
For a start, no-one charges from 0-100% at a supercharger, and they did, it would not take anywhere near 2 hours.
Second, the period of time where the Model 3 is charging at more than 150 kW is about 10 minutes. After that, it's the same speed for both.
https://support.fastned.nl/hc/en-gb/articles/360012178313-Te…
My tesla goes from 20-80% in about 15mins. You only need to charge enough to get to the next charger on a road trip.
When the battery is in a high state or charge, it will not charge as quickly. So getting from 80-100 will take much longer. Most ev charges really well if it’s on a low state or charge and the battery pack is warm, a condition typically achieved during road trip. Some cars precondition the battery if it knows you’re headed/stopping for a change
Most ev owner charge at home using granny charger. So this is only relevant during road trip.
While I am fascinating to get my first EV
still feeling Australia is not ready for EV due to the lack of charging stationsprobably will wait until there's EV charging in most petrol stations
Honestly the infrastructure now is pretty good, and plans for plenty more (this Ampol site is the first of 120 across four states).
The main limitation now is upfront cost (and also availability, as some manufacturers only bring in a few hundred a year). Definitely don't let perceived lack of infrastructure hold you back.
In some states and areas, it's more than ready. The closer to the East coast you are, the easier it is to own one and run it for pennies.
I don’t know what state your in but QLD and NSW have so many charging stations cor EV cars
Big brain thinking: Flat-bed truck or trailer filled with LiFePO4 batteries and a compatible charging circuit and connector. Charge. Drive home and power your home for nix.
Don't discount the fact that you really shouldn't be using a DCFC (Type 3) for your regular domestic recharge - you'll diminish battery health significantly and quickly, doing that regularly over 8 years.
If you are smart about it, regular use of local ACFC Type 2 or home Type 1 charging will ensure your battery health remains great. It will also free-up the DCFC points for people who are travelling through and need the stop more than you.
achew
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Your estimate is way off.
For example, Tesla Model 3:
Battery size: 50kWh
EPA range: 438km
kWh/100 km: 11.4
Cost to charge from fast charger: $0.60
$/100km: $6.8
Petrol is currently ~$2/L
Typical L/100km of sedan: 7
$/100km: $14
Even with a less optimistic range estimate, EV is still half the price per km.
Charge from home for $0.20 instead of at a fast charger, and it’s more like $2.30/100km!