Parent's Neighbour's Barking Dog. Sue Neighbour and/or Council?

10/8/22- BIG THANK YOU TO THE OZBARGAIN COMMUNITY! Update below

The last few years my mother has been dealing with neighbors dogs that bark constantly through the night and during the day (they are left outside). She has put up with this for years and it is impacting on her mental health and enjoyment of her home.

She contacted the local council multiple times but instead of helping they referred her to the local police, and the police refer her back to the council. She believes that her complaint is being trivialised and wants to pursue further action. The council has cancelled investigations because they say they've spoken to neighbours who haven't made any complaints, but my mother has spoken to her neighbours and they say they haven't been visited by the council.

She is planning on suing the neighbour and perhaps the council for the suffering it has caused her. She has asked me to financially assist with her legal case as she is a pensioner. I'm unsure as to what the risk of her losing the case would be and hence my money.

Would she be unlikely to succeed in suing the neighbour? Should she sue the council for inaction? Any other advice about how I can help her? She cannot move house as she is a pensioner.

She has many recordings of the dog barking, and one of her neighbours is able to confirm this. She believes she has followed the appropriate progress of escalation, contacting council, and seeking noise abatement order.

Thanks in advance.

10/8/22- BIG THANK YOU TO THE OZBARGAIN COMMUNITY! Very appreciative of all the comments and I am very grateful for all the advice.
Mother lives in NSW. FOI request is pending. Probably won't be pursuing legal action from all your helpful advice. Suggestions I found very helpful- approaching ombudsman, councillors/ Mayor, council complaints process, legal aid (pending), mediation, local rangers, ultrasonic barking deterrent.

Comments

  • +20

    I sympathise, but am not sure what you could actually sue the neighbour for?

    • +9

      You can sue for 'nuisance', but not sure if barking dogs is going to meet the substantial and unreasonable bar.

      • +11

        Sure would if the barking happens at night. Stress and lack of sleep are health risks. You could even sue the owners for harassment if repeated attempts fail to stop it.

        • -2

          Yes would.

          But don't need to use a Solicitor - just go down to you local court. Usually the staff are keen to help the public.

          • +4

            @Ti-au: Staff who work in the court are not able to give legal advice.

            • +1

              @Morphio25: The staff will help with the process on how to do it. They don't need legal advice .

              Small claims court is enough for this

            • @Morphio25: Staff can point you to the correct form.
              Staff can tell you the law or make a photocopy of the law.
              Staff can help you organise a court date.

              Staff are obviously not going be your lawyer.

    • As an owner of two dogs myself, if they were barking through the night I would keep them inside. Barking when another dog is walked past or someone comes near the house is normal, otherwise it isn't. Probably means the dogs are stressed too.

  • +54

    suing the neighbour and perhaps the council for the suffering it has caused her

    This isn't America, I don't think our courts really award damages for things like this…. If you were going to attempt this you'd probably need a track record of doctors visits to prove the ongoing "suffering"…

    Edit: if you feel the council aren't doing their job lodge a complaint with the ombudsman… :
    https://www.ombudsman.vic.gov.au/complaints/councils/

    • +10

      Another option (depending on your mother's location) would be to get onto the elected councillors rather than just going through the staff; that could prompt some action from another angle.

    • Yes they do, but it's much harder to prove council was negligent. Just go after the dog owner. They usually don't have the funds to defend themselves properly like councils.

      • Maybe they don't even need to defend properly?

        'I am [insert vulnerable groups neglected by society] and cant even afford to feed my dog. Also the barking was from other dogs'

        Not sure how the magistrate will somehow punish the owner because dogs do dog things like barking.

    • Not sure how you prove it either, unless you amass quite a few nights of recording.

    • +1

      What do you mean this is not America? Australia is a close second to USA in litigation

      https://journeyz.co/most-litigious-countries-in-the-world/

  • +11

    Why not just contact legal aid?

    https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/

    • +7

      Ozlawyer is the preferred pathway, duh!

    • +2

      Because legal aid generally only provide assistance to defendants in criminal cases who are at risk of going to jail. They don't normally help in civil cases like this.

    • People having too much trust for legal aid. They receive cases at last minute, spend a few more minutes then appear for you and say [things that are said at every dispute like this]. That's for criminal cases where people get locked away for years and families get destroyed.

      May as well self appear because you know your situation way better than them.

  • +25

    It's definitely council responsibility. If they won't take action I'd suggest perhaps EPA and/or there should be an ombudsman that oversees local councils for whatever state/territory she's in. I'd try those avenues before trying to sue which will end up costing money.

    • +10

      Yeah. I'd suggest emailing the mayor and councillors. Say that it is causing distress and affecting the mental health of the mother and council officers are ignoring. Might not be good to say lying but appears to be misleading when trying to corroborate facts with neighbours. I don't normally encourage going around the processes but it seems that they have dropped the ball.

      There is the Companion Animal Act that it appears council is not adhering to. See NSW link but there should be similar for other states.
      https://www.olg.nsw.gov.au/public/dogs-cats/responsible-pet-…

      • +2

        Maybe also RSPCA. Not normal to leave dogs barking for hours.

        • Parents did this once, RPSCA didn't give a hoots.

  • +3

    This could be a form of action called "public nuisance" but in order to sue you would have to demonstrate that you are more affected by the public nuisance than most.

    There's also a form of action called "private nuisance" where you show that your rights to enjoyment of your property are being affected.

    Before you go anywhere near the courts Google for "council noise complaints" and your_council_name_here. Generally councils have ways of complaining about various forms of noise. They are your first port of call.

  • +5

    Would she be unlikely to succeed in suing the neighbour? Should she sue the council for inaction?

    Depending which law you are suing the neighbours with. Court will unlikely entertain your mum if suing the council. You go through their complaint process.

    I'm unsure as to what the risk of her losing the case would be and hence my money

    If she wins the case, any compensation is unlikely going to cover legal cost.

    If she loses the case, she is going to need more money to treat the devastation.

    Either way, this is a donation rather than a loan.

    • +1

      Agree, it's probably unlikely the court would award damages, they'd just issue an order for the dogs to be dealt with…

    • -2

      Also, call the police at night when the dog is barking, not next day. Make sure it is outside the acceptable noise time and not 8pm when your mum goes to sleep.

      • -5

        Yes let's call the police for a barking dog and use up resources for an animal that is barking!

    • +1

      It's small claims court. Legal costs are less than $100

      A judgement to keep dog quiet would be worth spending $100 on

  • +9

    She has asked me to financially assist with her legal case as she is a pensioner. I'm unsure as to what the risk of her losing the case would be and hence my money.

    Legit you'd get a better risk/return ratio by going to r/wallstreetbets, sorting by Top and matching the option play of today's biggest potato.

    • +7

      I feel personally attacked after reading this.

    • +2

      Ah, I see you've been to my Financial Advisor too!

    • +2

      hey, stop revealing this one trick that stock brokers hate!

  • +12

    Have her immediately document all instances of wayward nuisance barking, if she hasn't started already.

    Gather information via a diary every time they disturb her.

    Document all instances of her attempts to resolve this issue - has she spoken with the neighbours in question? What was their response? Did it change anything? Make sure dates are times are included.

    Document all interactions with the Police/Council as well.

    Check your relevant council restrictions for nuisance dogs.

    Are they dangerous dogs as well?

  • +2

    She can write to the mayor. Ask to see what actions the council has taken.

  • +1

    Speak to a lawyer first where the initial consultation is free and they should be able to give you a sense of whether the case is worth pursuing.

    As to ongoing costs, many law firms offer no win, no fee payment options where you don't have to pay their costs unless you win the case (as such they'll only take the case if they are reasonably confident of winning), disbursements will still be payable.

    She will likely need alot of evidence, and contemporaneous evidence at that, including call logs, recordings, diaries, written correspondence etc etc.

    • +2

      You can win the case, but be awarded nothing or much less than the fees.

  • +10

    First go via free mediation. https://www.disputes.vic.gov.au/about-us/mediation
    If they are unwilling to follow orders/go to mediation can then can go to local court and show that you tried mediation. Judge can see that you tried mediation and can issue then a court order

  • +8

    Have you tried calling your local rangers? Mine came out when my mum complained, listened and told her to keep logs / recordings, and then they had a chat to them.

  • +12

    I feel your pain. 6 years & counting here. It is VERY wearing. Originally approached neighbour about it, but got aggressive & blamed others (Other neighbours cats, that one time I had a drone out, that one time I actually ventured out into the back yard, etc) Multiple visits from council dog patrol, etc. The neighbour on the other side was deaf, so after their passing thought the new residents might back us up, but still barks every time I open the back door or make a noise outside (eg. clothes trolly squeak). Council asked me to maintain a diary for a month & I had spreadsheets showing hourly activity. I have video & audio recordings. I did a Youtube playlist of it all. Family & homecare workers have confirmed aggressive nature. It has got out & attacked family members several times. I think if all the surrounding neighbours got together with a submission to council, or each lodged a complaint one after the other, that might work.
    In the 6 years since it came, its never been walked once, nor shown any care whatsoever. It was brought by his ex, so it would have gone years ago if me.
    Could go on for ages, but wont. Next step seems to be Community Justice before lawyers & yes that's an option. I assume there would be legal aid assistance for pensioners.
    https://www.service.nsw.gov.au/transaction/report-nuisance-d…
    https://www.cjc.justice.nsw.gov.au/
    In the meantime, TV or music during the day, whitenoise or radio of a night. Have tried heavy metal but no reaction…

    • +4

      It has got out & attacked family members several times.

      And still your council hasn't acted? We put up with two small dogs that had kept barking/yapping for hours on end every time they were left home alone. Council didn't do anything about excessive barking but when they got out and came into our front yard and chased our cats, the council rangers arrived in 20 mins. They also issue a warning letter to owners if their dogs get out unleashed, supervised or not.

      • -1

        The reason why council don't act in neighbourhood disputes is be because they don't want to be seen as a white knight rushing in to be favourable to one side also not use their resources as if they do come in they have to go all the way. They usually collect any data and give you options to pursue yourself. It's like the police coming and saying you sort it out amongst themselves. In such disputes the neighbour is likely to complain not someone who lives down the road so it's a flawed way of thinking. No one complains about barking dogs miles away it will be a neighbour.

    • This guy is on the right track. OP didn't mention it, but they will get nowhere without solid evidence.

      An interesting project that would get you great evidence would be a constantly recording microphone outside. Feed the audio through some AI to identify dog barking noises and log the timestamps. You now have a dog barking diary that writes itself plus audio evidence.

  • +3

    Meet personally with your local council member. (Optional: Take along a brown paper page, stuffed with monopoly money and put it on the desk).

    • +1

      Not the bribe, but definitely start with the councillor.
      They are the equal of the board of directors for local government, and are used to helping when the bureaucracy isn’t working.

    • or try the local council's member …

      • @darkmoss just give it a squeeze, or…?

  • +2

    There's noise restrictions that vary by state after a certain time around 10-11pm until 6-7am (and different on weekends) - Unless the constant barking is within those restricted hours, i doubt they can do anything about it. Just like if someone is using a jackhammer or have their music loud late at night then you can lodge a noise complaint.

    Your post doesn't say anything about whether she's actually spoken to the neighbours directly either.

  • +2

    Council should deal with this.
    Most of the time they will ask for a log to be completed. Then notices are issued if neighbours do not comply….what council are you dealing with here? Northern suburbs? Western Suburbs? South East?

  • +7

    I'm surprised, no one has said to go on ACA yet.

  • +2

    You didn't specify but I'm assuming you've tried talking to the dog owners. What did they say?

    We've had a few noisy dog issues over the years, every idiot who buys a house seems to think they have to have 1-3 dogs to go with it. For some reason these owners are deaf to the constant barking…I don't know why. Have been able to resolve it without going to council, one guy had to put an anti-barking collar on as the dog was barking all night.

    There are ultrasonic devices you can setup up in your yard pointed at the offending neighbours yard that send an ultrasonic sound when the the animal starts barking, not sure how effective they are.

    • Ultrasonic emitters just make every dog in range start barking. Some guy near me had one and we counted about eight dogs barking. It was madness! The expensive emitters will do that, but the cheap ones are so bad they can't be heard.

      • +1

        sound like your nearby guy decided to go scorched earth.

  • +12

    I live near (not next door thankfully) to neighbours that just leave their yapping dog outside permanently. Never taken for walks, just left to bark at anything that moves. Neighbour of course is unreasonable & denies any problems.
    First step is local council. Not the police (unless there is risk of physical attack).
    Log incidents, times. You can download a free Noise App to phone that will give a rudimentary (non-calibrated) dB(A) readout.
    Keep that going for a week & provide full dossier to council.
    If no action, go to council ombudsman. That should ensure some follow up.
    If no action, get onto EPA. They should show an interest in this and might even offer to make calibrated noise recordings.
    Last steps should be legal ones, although if all other options are exhausted, this might be it.

    Another slightly crazy option is to set up a reverb audio system that might cost a bit. Essentially a system that records the bark, then directly plays it back using directional speakers at the house where it came from, but much louder. Should piss off the neighbour if nothing else.

  • +18

    Blow an air horn every time the dog barks.

  • You need to hire Saul or Harvey Specter.

  • +2

    Maybe insulation is better in long run than expensive lawsuits?

  • +12

    You could try a device like the "dog silencer" which emits a high pitch tone that dogs find irritating, but humans can't hear.

    https://aussiebarkcontrol.com/products/discreet-neighbor-pac…

    Can be used manually with remote - press button every time dog barks. Or auto mode, where the microphone picks up the barking sound and emits tone for a few seconds.

    Needs to be line of sight. This may mean installing it on a tree overlooking neighbour's yard. So in many cases this will be impossible or not practical.

    The dog owners may allow you to install it in their yard, if they are keen to stop their dogs barking. Then it can be installed in the ideal location.

    In theory, this is not a gimmick. The dog will associate its own barking with the horrible high pitch tone. Harmless to the dog. In practice however I'm guessing the line-of-sight requirement will be difficult to control.

      • If anything, it's under-powered.

        So you might be on to something. If we buy 3 of these devices and mount all 3 on the end of a broom handle, and prop against fence facing neighbour's yard, we have ourselves an upgrade! The combined power of all 3 devices sounding at once will get the job done. Only issue is cost (3 x device = ~$900).

        Manual triggering would be best. Then you can allow the dog to bark a bit, as dogs like to do. But if the dog keeps barking non-stop while owners not home, then it's time to press the button on all 3 remotes at same time. Might not work, but we're in "last resort" territory here, as is the idea of suing the council.

        • Only issue is cost (3 x device = ~$900).

          Sounds like a fun Arduino project to me. I reckon you could build this for next to nothing.

          • @trapper: Maybe, but sounds like an advanced project. Ultrasonic speaker arrays, RF remote controls, timers, microphones, etc… not easy. Even making a suitable housing so the speaker works and audio is focused properly…. I wouldn't attempt it.

            Been years since I messed around with Arduino… I hit a wall with my own skills combined with lack of suitable wireless battery powered options for intended project. I wanted to stick a little box on wall outside our bathroom door with glowing LED light when bathroom occupied. Couldn't find a solution where battery would last more than a few days (I wanted a 6 month lifespan minimum for battery). Never found solution, maybe I'll look again.

      • +1

        I agree, barking dogs are never a solution. I don't care if my neighbours hate me, but they will respect me.

  • +3

    She is planning on suing the neighbour and perhaps the council for the suffering it has caused her. She has asked me to financially assist with her legal case as she is a pensioner. I'm unsure as to what the risk of her losing the case would be and hence my money.

    There is no risk to her losing the case.

    There is certainty to her losing the case.

    • Why?

      Its Private Nuisance - Intangible Interference case.

      Costs would be awarded by perpetrator if they did nothing to stop the noise and realized it was a problem (ie. notice from council, etc).
      Obviously recordings and a diary would be need to be kept to show the unreasonableness of the situation.
      A defence could be raised if the defendant had tried to limit the interference, but lets be honest the guy problem has never taken them to any type of training, etc.

  • +1

    Did your mum's local council actually ask her to keep a daily diary/log of barking incidents?
    This seems to be the standard procedure with most councils when you make an animal noise complaint.

  • -4

    Buy her some earplugs. This is going to be the most effective, quickest, easiest way for her to have peace. The courts are unlikely to award damages & even if they did & even if legal costs were covered it will take a long time… this process will cause more pain and anguish than the barking dog.

    • -3

      Agree.

    • +7

      Terrible idea. The path to "living in peace" isn't placing bags over our heads, or plugs in our ears while at home.

      Earplugs have associated health risks when used regularly. Not only are they uncomfortable, but they block out all sounds, not just the sounds you don't want to hear. They can cause wax build up, and prolonged use can cause other issues including increased risk of infection. A much better idea is to deal with the dog, not your own ears.

    • +1

      mild noise problem

      This isn't about normal barking. Some dogs will bark for hours non-stop, due to owner neglect. At night, it's a real problem. And sometimes the backyard and layout of house can amplify the barking, where the brick walls and paved areas act as a megaphone for the dog's bark.

      The difference with your situation is that it was your choice to live in an apartment building without concrete between floors. You learnt to live with your choice.

      • -6

        If owner neglect, the owner should be reported.

        As for the noise, it can be blocked with white noise and ear plugs. If necessary, you can install double-glazed windows on the house, or a more robust fence and heaps of vegetation/trees in front of the fence.

        • +4

          trees in front of the fence.

          Your ideas are terrible! The solution is to deal with the dog and dog owner, not planting trees or building new fences!

          We could wear blind folds instead of buying curtains to block out light. Ear plugs in, blind fold on, white noise blaring… serenity now?

          You insist that everyone must give in and "live with" problems caused by others, instead of addressing the source of the problem. Is that how you were raised? A cultural thing?

          Owner neglect takes various forms, it's not easy to prove. When a dog is fed but not walked, is it neglect? Owner could lie and say "we walk the dog". Who can prove otherwise?

          • -4

            @cerealJay: But she has already attempted to address the source of the problem, without success. This is dragging on.
            There are other solutions. 1. Block the noise (ear plugs and white noise really do work). 2. Move. 3. Psychological strategies (learn to not care, not to stress over it).

            The situation is identical to mine, not different as you asserted. I had no control over the noise. She has no control over the noise. I moved. She can move. This is a valid solution.

            • +2

              @ForkSnorter: But you did have control over moving into an apartment underneath someone in the first place. You had control over setting yourself up for likely noise. You took the risk. She did nothing to set herself up for excessive noise pollution.

              Moving is valid, but extreme. Ear plugs can cause unwanted health and comfort issues. Not everyone can tolerate ear plugs, or likes using "white noise".

              learn to not care

              What exactly is being "learned" in the process of "learning to not care". I think what you really mean is "live with the discomfort, don't complain, just put up with it". Many would consider this an invalid approach.

              • -4

                @cerealJay:

                But you did have control over moving into an apartment underneath someone in the first place. You had control over setting yourself up for likely noise. You took the risk. She did nothing to set herself up for excessive noise pollution.

                This is an absurd interpretation. Dogs barking is a well-known noise hazard in Australian suburbs. Taking your interpretation, she took the risk when she bought/rented a house close to neighbours.

                I had lived in apartments all over the world with no noise issues before that guy moved in above me. There was concrete between the apartments but turned out to be quite thin and didn’t block noise or vibrations.

                I, and this woman, both ended up with unexpected noise problems. Your insistence that these are fundamentally different situations, is weird.

                Learning not to care is a discovery process of realising you can enjoy yourself, and sleep, even with ongoing noise. There are things you can do to achieve this, if it doesn’t happen naturally. The more you fight it and hate it and stress about it, the worse it will get, and the less enjoyment you will have in your home.

  • +2

    I've seen a couple of suggestions to contact EPA. I'm not sure how it is in other states, but in Victoria, EPA don't deal with residential noise complaints.

  • +1

    https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/374069681845

    1. Install the above in the line of sight of the dogs. Maybe it will help

    2. Contact your local mayor in their Facebook page. Be very polite, grateful and outline that you really would appreciate their help.

    • +1

      Based on your username, I would’ve expected another suggestion…

      • +1

        Hahahahaha

        I do not condone murder

    • Ebay Links in Australia

  • +3

    I had a neighbour who used to leave the dog in the backyard whole day while he went to work. The dog kept crying/howling/barking the whole day until the owner came back. It went on for a few months and after I could not bear it anymore, a simple letter in the neighbour's mailbox did the trick.

    • +2

      I tried that before and kept doing it for weeks. But then they were automatically throwing it in bin. Am I meant to write something?

      • -1

        Am I meant to write something?

        There is no shortage of geniuses in this world

  • +3

    If the neighbour is renting, you can reach out to their managing agent because the tenant is in breach of rental agreement. But otherwise legal action may be the only solution in your situation.

    • Well council first, potentially EPA (depends on State), then legal.

  • Aren't there devices that play annoying frequencies that only dogs can here. If they exists, maybe you can turn it on when it barks constantly as training. Not sure if that would work or a completely stupid idea.

    • Mentioned above.

      • thanks for pointing that out guy

        • One of them is Ebay UK, but doesn't post to Australia.

          They range from $118 to $385 on the aussiebarkcontrol.com site.

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