Renter Broke The Toilet, Property Manager Wants Me to Replace It

veidt on 18/07/2023 - 19:54
Last edited 19/07/2023 - 17:03 by 1 other user

*****Thank you for your input, I am going to replace the toilet.*****

Hello forum members,

I find myself in a perplexing situation regarding a rental property, and I would greatly appreciate your advice and insights.

Around a year and a half ago, I rented out my house through a real-estate agent. Prior to the rental, the toilet in the house was in good condition and had passed the inspection conducted by the agent. I have received two inspection reports, one during the first tenant's stay and another after they vacated, and both reports indicate that the toilet was in good condition.

However, the second tenant, who moved in three months ago, is now requesting a replacement for the toilet. They have sent me photos showing a broken toilet base and claim that it needs to be fixed. I have been arguing with the agent, asserting that it is not our responsibility as the damage was not present during the inspections.

In response, the agent insists that it is the owner's duty to cover the cost of repairs. I have gone as far as challenging the agent and threatening legal action, as I possess evidence to support my case.

Now, the agent is suggesting that the house is old and toilets can naturally crack and break, and that the authorities will typically side with the renters in such situations.

At this point, I am uncertain about the best course of action. Should I simply accept the cost and proceed with fixing the toilet, or should I continue to contest the matter?

Home & Garden

Comments

  • howcan on 19/07/2023 - 10:26
    +11

    You're threatening legal action against your own real estate agent over a broken toilet in your property? Damn, that entire RE office will be roaring with laughter at you 😂 How embarrassing.

    • surg3on on 19/07/2023 - 11:00
      +2

      im honestly surprised they havent dropped him as a client. Their rent commission isnt worth hassle like this.

      • newjerseydamo on 19/07/2023 - 12:47
        +1

        I was thinking this. The RE could drop then bad mouth the ex-client to other REs leaving the OP to have to direct landlord themselves. Then watch the headaches be even bigger.

        • idonotknowwhy on 19/07/2023 - 12:55
          +2

          (profanity) me, imagine what it'd be like for the future tenants having to deal with OP directly!

          • surg3on on 20/07/2023 - 08:38

            @idonotknowwhy: he'd insist on a toilet camera installed at the tenants expense

  • monky on 19/07/2023 - 11:05
    +5

    Replace the toilet dude…

    • howcan on 19/07/2023 - 12:28
      +13

      Oi, give him a break, landlords are doing it tough too you know? He can't afford it after he just bought his $579 Apple watch.

      Maybe he could use the money he saved not buying a $3.2k 100" 4k Laser Projector TV due to Covid lockdowns and spend it on his property so his tenant that's paying him thousands of dollars a month in rent has a functioning toilet to use? Ah no, that's right, he'd rather give this money to his lawyers instead of a plumber! 🤦

      • ThithLord on 19/07/2023 - 14:53
        +1

        he'd rather give this money to his lawyers instead of a plumber!

        They're good value for the money!

  • WreckTangle on 19/07/2023 - 11:14
    +3

    Are you a slumlord? Of course its on you to replace it. Will be a nice tax deduction though.

  • tetra on 19/07/2023 - 12:00
    +13

    Typical landlord lmfao. A toilet is an urgent repair (i.e. repair organised as soon as possible once notified, which you have not done.) and you're in breach of duty. You would lose at XCAT.

    Best case scenario would be if you could prove the tenants caused the damage and then send them the bill afterwards (you would still need to get it fixed asap). But seeing as how it was preexisting when you bought the place and you don't know how old it is, that's doubtful.

    If you don't know your responsibilities, don't have a rental.

    I have gone as far as challenging the agent and threatening legal action

    God, that's just embarassing.

  • jizmo on 19/07/2023 - 12:07
    +3

    If there's a crack in the porcelain pan, they can collapse like a coke can and probably do some serious damage to the (profanity), legs and back of the person in charge of taking the shit at the time.
    Have you checked your public liability landlords insurance covers this?

  • bomberswarm2 on 19/07/2023 - 12:24

    Where's that Judge Judy clip where she tears shreds off someone trying to sue her friend for breaking her toilet? You don't go find the past person who sat on it you just fix it.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 19/07/2023 - 12:44
    +4

    Lmao at the Slumlords who regularly troll these topics sighing in collective frustration that someone has outed themselves yet again as a slumlord on OzB.

    Bookmarking to link back to in the next slumlord saga.

    Just fix the damn funny. Slumlord.

  • McFly on 19/07/2023 - 12:46
    +2

    Tenant got so upset, they are now on crack.

  • comradePUP on 19/07/2023 - 12:47
    +1

    You own the toilet and the house, it's your job to pay to get them fixed if they break.

  • idonotknowwhy on 19/07/2023 - 12:54

    Sometimes people drop stinkers

  • knk on 19/07/2023 - 12:59
    +6

    Jesus christ stop being a tightass. If this was my rental I'd just replace it no questions asked.

    Maintenance from general wear and tear comes with the territory of being a landlord.

  • Aap Ke Papa on 19/07/2023 - 13:00
    +1

    It's a toilet. Regardless of who is at fault, just replace it. Cost would be less than 500 total.

  • ColtNoir on 19/07/2023 - 13:05
    +6

    You are what’s wrong with landlords. Things break, and unless they’ve done something malicious, it’s wear and tear and a cost of being a LL.

    Pay for the toilet, mate.

  • Phlume on 19/07/2023 - 13:07
    +6

    Once had a toilet crack at night when we were all in bed. Woke up to a flooded bathroom and shards of the bowl littered around the floor. Definitely can happen without any intentional damage. Rest in peace my Caroma.

  • Empharand on 19/07/2023 - 13:18
    +2

    Should I simply accept the cost and proceed with fixing the toilet

    YES

    Prior to the rental, the toilet in the house was in good condition and had passed the inspection conducted by the agent

    But did the Property Manager REALLY inspect it?

    who moved in three months ago, is now requesting a replacement for the toilet.

    Regardless of how this plays out you NEED to organise the toilet to be replaced and YOU will be the one paying for it.
    The argument that it wasn't present during inspection needs to be between you and the Property Manager. Either the previous tenant broke it and the Property Manager did a 5 second look at it during the end-of-lease inspection, or the current tenant broke it and is playing the 'Oh it was broken before' card.

    OP, you likely won't get any closure on this unfortunately and delaying the toilet replacement will just piss off the tenant which I'm sure could argue that you haven't provided safe amenities.

    Are you really expecting the new tenant to have to deal with a broken toilet while you battle it out with the property manager likely resulting in the toilet breaking more and eventually either being unsafe and/or unable to be used?

    ORGANISE TO GET THE TOILET REPLACED AND MOVE ON….
    Your tenant is essentially paying your mortgage and are contributing to what will become a fully paid off house.
    + If they're treating your home well, clean the house etc then that's likely a tenant you would rather keep and one that you ideally don't want to piss off

  • AEKaBeer on 19/07/2023 - 13:26
    +2

    We had a similar situation for a toilet with broken porcelain, that had been replaced about 18 months prior. We were prepared to replace the toilet but asked the agent to ask the tenant if they were standing on the toilet or doing anything other than using it as intended. The agent got back to us saying the tenant agreed to pay to replace the toilet.

    It's not always clear cut, the seat or the buttons failing in that time, sure totally possible. But the base has no moving parts so far less likely to have an issue.

  • mokorusmania on 19/07/2023 - 13:38
    +13

    You sound like a terrible landlord. You should be glad that your tenant raised the issue for repair, it can get more expensive down the line if you leave things unfixed.

  • pebee47 on 19/07/2023 - 13:58
    +8

    I’ve replaced floor coverings wood stove (with gas bayonet), HWS, AC motor, and re-tanked en-suite (2x in 6 years) in a 25yr old rental. All considered a part of being a landlord.
    Also re-attached timber pergola, replaced fly-screens with pet-proof mesh, light fittings, a clotheslines; which, whilst being caused by tenant’s (usually) kids, somehow got missed during expensive Agent Inspections.
    If a cracked dunny is your only problem think yourself lucky.

  • netjock on 19/07/2023 - 14:01

    I blame it on negative gearing distorting the rental market!

    Just replace the toilet and put it down to bad luck.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 19/07/2023 - 14:48
      +1

      Just replace the toilet and put it down to bad luck.

      Bad luck doesn't exist in the vocabulary of a investment property owner mate. They only deal in profits.

      • netjock on 19/07/2023 - 15:11
        +1

        You telling me.

        I have bought 4 properties. 3 investments I lived in initially then moved out. All positively geared. Thanks to the magic of spreadsheets.

        There is some statistics around negative gearing. It is mostly for those making less than $100k which means they fell for the get rich quick scheme which it isn't. Notice how the government removed stamp duty on shares but stamp duty keeps on going up for property (they never adjusted the bands) and land taxes.

        Abolishing negative gearing won't save the housing market because the loss is just carried forward like capital loss on shares.

        Big players have their assets mostly in shares for good reason, because their politician mates like to inside trade shares. Very hard to inside trade property and do it quickly because you can't make 50% in a week.

        • coffeeinmyveins on 19/07/2023 - 15:12
          +2

          Abolishing negative gearing won't save the housing market

          I'm not sure what will tbh. All I know is whatever reform is created to fix it will mess something else up in another way. We're too far gone.

          • Ghost47 on 20/07/2023 - 11:25
            +1

            @coffeeinmyveins: Doesn’t help to kick the can down the road. It will get to the point where it’s absolutely unsustainable, when that happens people will wake up and realise how much of a mess we’re in. Aussies are just completely addicted to property, it’s basically part of our culture.

            • netjock on 20/07/2023 - 13:38
              +1

              @Ghost47:

              Aussies are just completely addicted to property

              Addicts don't know they have a problem.

            • Protractor on 21/07/2023 - 18:15

              @Ghost47: when everything no longer works import more ppl. Rinse and repeat. This is what broke the countries where the migrant floods are coming from

        • Ghost47 on 20/07/2023 - 11:19

          politician mates like to inside trade shares.

          Politicians do own investment properties though so there’s already a conflict of interest there. I don’t disagree there’s probably some insider trading going on as well.

  • yokel on 19/07/2023 - 14:09
    +3

    Could you replace it with a squat toilet? There is probably less chance of breaking that.

  • coffeeinmyveins on 19/07/2023 - 14:48
    +4

    Next post from OP is going to be about how to get the new tenant to pay for the replacement of 40 year old carpet

    • mokorusmania on 19/07/2023 - 15:27
      +1

      Nah, OP will bill new tenant for pain and suffering caused by pursuing legal action with the agent :p

  • whitepuma on 19/07/2023 - 15:08

    I too am a landlord and have had similar situations where I have tenants that are too rough with things and don't maintain things well enough. If I were you, I'd just pay for the replacement of the toilet, and keep note of this. If this becomes a regular occurrence where the tenant is breaking things (well beyond what you would consider standard wear and tear), then you will need to make the decision on if it's worthwhile getting rid of the tenant, and putting it back to market for someone else. Just keep in mind the following for the later option:
    - There will be additional fees in getting it back on the market
    - May lose rent between tenants
    - There is no guarantee the next tenant will be better.

    That's why I say it's only worthwhile exploring if the tenants have a long streak of being rough or malicious.
    This is why i much prefer to have a good tenant at slightly lower rent than a bad tenant at higher rent.

    But for this 1 off occurrence, just cop the hit.

  • Thenarrator on 19/07/2023 - 15:18
    -4

    if tenant lived in for 3months and broke it, its not wear and tear. did you inspect the toilet seat personally when the first tenant vacated? i suspect REA didnt do thorough look through and it was already broken before second tenant moved in. You couldve charged the first tenant for breaking the toilet seat.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 19/07/2023 - 15:32
      +15

      if tenant lived in for 3months and broke it, its not wear and tear.

      Wear and tear is not tied to the tenant mate.

      If the toilet is 40 years old and I move in and it breaks 3 months later, that's just bad luck but it has nothing to do with me. The toilet was still 40 years old.

      i suspect REA didnt do thorough look through and it was already broken before second tenant moved in

      Or, like I said, it was just time for this to happen.

      • Thenarrator on 19/07/2023 - 19:52

        and how do you know the second tenant didnt break it? or did you assume its a 40yr old toilet thats just gone through the days. You dont know actually. its contestable and nothings black and white.

        • coffeeinmyveins on 20/07/2023 - 08:23
          +4

          I don't know, and neither do you.

  • SolitaryMan on 19/07/2023 - 15:50
    +4

    Fix the toilet (the home isn’t liveable without one) and then sell the property, you shouldn’t be a landlord.

  • kiriakoz on 19/07/2023 - 15:50
    +11

    I do get scared how messed up the people on this site are tbh. I always just came on here to buy things I liked cheaper but there's a certain type of narcissism and egocentricity that's attracted to this website. Not just this dude, there's a lot of them.

    • Yola on 19/07/2023 - 15:55
      +4

      But have you noticed how many people have told him off?

      • kiriakoz on 19/07/2023 - 16:04
        +3

        Yes, that's fair. That gives me a bit more hope for society.

        • serpserpserp on 19/07/2023 - 19:10
          +6

          That gives me a bit more hope for society.

          Just keep reading the forums here for a few more years and you'll lose that.

          • kiriakoz on 19/07/2023 - 19:21

            @serpserpserp: Oh don't worry, I've read enough of them that it's pretty low in general. The key part of that sentence was "bit more"… a bit more than nothing is still pretty close to nothing.

          • Ghost47 on 20/07/2023 - 11:17
            +2

            @serpserpserp: It’s only specific people on the forums who are extremely callous. You get to know their usernames quite quickly.

  • pharkurnell on 19/07/2023 - 15:55
    +1

    Where do you suggest they take a shit currently if the throne is broken? The sink?

    • CocaKoala on 19/07/2023 - 21:39
      +4

      Tenant should dump in paper bags and deliver it to the OP daily.

      • spasto on 20/07/2023 - 10:53

        This is a brilliant idea.

  • IM-Cheap on 19/07/2023 - 15:58
    +1

    As advice from a fellow landlord, fair wear and tear is an expected in a property and you are responsible for the cost of repairs or replacement when things break down and you should fix issues promptly.

    An old toilet can crack, a quick google will show toilet warranties are generally between 10-15yrs but I've seen bad installs fail sooner. If the place was reasonably new I'd take up your dispute with the manufacturer or installer (I've done so for a dishwasher that failed in warranty). Just fix the problem promptly and claim the deduction.

    • Yola on 19/07/2023 - 16:01

      The OP has mentioned that the toilet could be up to 30 years old.

      • IM-Cheap on 19/07/2023 - 16:13
        +2

        Its wild then to bother arguing against it being wear and tear - sure many toilets will last longer than warranty but impossible to prove its not wear and tear for either a 30yr old toilet or a toilet you have no install record of in an old house.

  • meowsers on 19/07/2023 - 16:21
    +6

    This is reminiscent of those AirBNB owners who expect the guest to clean, take out the rubbish, not use any dishes or utensils and have 1000 rules to follow.

    If you are renting out a house, nevermind a 30 year old house - just accept that as a cost of doing business and move on. If your tenant takes you to tribunal you'll be lucky if you get away without a rent reduction for however long it took you to fix it.

  • spoonmugen on 19/07/2023 - 16:26

    toilet seat is like $40… just replace it and be a good landlord…

    • Yola on 19/07/2023 - 19:59
      +2

      It's not about the seat.

  • nobro25 on 19/07/2023 - 16:33
    +2

    When you took a gamble of investment properties. You should bear in mind that these things could happen. That's why it's a gamble and not full proof.

  • Brianqpr on 19/07/2023 - 17:14
    +1

    If the property is in Sydney, Sydney Water replaces toilets at very reasonable rates under their Waterfix program. Not sure if similar things exist in other cities/states.

    • IM-Cheap on 20/07/2023 - 00:16

      Thanks for the tip, pricing is very competitive and a real bargain if replacing an old single flush toilet.

  • jugsy on 19/07/2023 - 19:04
    +1

    Of course it's your responsibility, lol

  • serpserpserp on 19/07/2023 - 19:08
    +8

    lol little landlords want everything at the renters expense.

  • TightLikeThisx on 19/07/2023 - 19:17

    How do you think the toilet broke?

  • JSki on 19/07/2023 - 20:26
    +2

    Cost of investment property. Boo hoo.

  • t_c on 19/07/2023 - 20:37
    -5

    Fix it asap and jack up the rent $10 on lease renewal. You will roi in 1 year.

    Essentially tenant will still be paying for it, just in 52 easy interest free installments.

  • Hangryuman on 19/07/2023 - 23:11
    -3

    'the agent is suggesting that the house is old and toilets can naturally crack and break'

    yeah nah - I've been a landlord for over 40 years and never had a ceramic toilet bowl crack or break - I've also worked as a real estate salesman and seen hundreds of properties and never seen a ceramic toilet bowl cracked or broken unless by deliberate malicious damage where idiots trashed a place (and set fire to stuff as well) - our current toilet is over 40 years old and is in perfect working condition - a solid ceramic toilet shouldn't ever break unless there's some sort of destructive impact or hugely excessive weight

    the only other case I've heard of was a hoarder whose place is so piled with junk that he obvs let some maintenance go for so long that something broke and cracked the toilet bowl and it leaked causing external damage.

    so I'm agreeing with the OP that it was probably caused by a bad tenant

    but bad tenants rarely pay up for their damage, so yeah sorry suck it up and chalk it up to experience - if it was a renovation it would be considered a capital expense, but you may be able to claim a <=$300 supply part as immediately claimable and the labor as a repair expense.

    read this - https://www.ato.gov.au/uploadedFiles/Content/IAI/Downloads/T…

    on the side of claim it as a repair -
    https://www.crestaccountants.com.au/rental-properties-and-de…

    urgent repair - https://www.lendi.com.au/inspire/finance/what-is-considered-…

    'Repairs must relate directly to the wear and tear resulting from the property being rented out. This generally involves restoring a worn out or broken part – for example, replacing damaged palings of a fence or fixing a broken toilet. The following expenses will not qualify as deductible repairs, but are capital: Replacement of an entire asset (for example, a complete fence, a new hot water system, oven, etc.)' - https://mbacc.com.au/2019/10/12/what-you-can-and-cant-claim-…

    'If the purchase was less than $300 it will be 100 per cent tax deductible in the year the expense was incurred. If you fix a crack in the plaster, this will be considered a repair as you are restoring a damaged asset. You're entitled to claim an immediate deduction for any expenses involved' - https://www.hrblock.com.au/tax-academy/claim-property-repair…

    'If your client has accidentally damaged your investment property, you could be entitled to claim tax deductions for repairs and maintenance and for the tax depreciation deduction' - https://www.capitalclaims.com.au/claiming-tax-deductions-for…

    On the weight of the above you might claim it as an immediate urgent repair due to damage by tenant (rather than a capital expense)

  • MuddyClear on 19/07/2023 - 23:54
    +4

    Cmon guys. You are being very unfair to the OP. The tenant should time their shoots and take it outside during the cold Winter nights from now on.

    • Creamsoda on 20/07/2023 - 18:29
      +2

      damn straight. Tenants are like dogs and should take their smelly doos in the yard. so the human landlords like the OP can take their time to sue the RA.

  • Aerith-Waifu on 20/07/2023 - 00:39
    +2

    I have replaced the door locks, aircon, hot water system as well as many many other small things the tenants claimed it went broke.

    End up around $3000 a year on average for the last 3 years that's $9000 in broken items, flat is 40 years old so things will gets break down

    Just fix and move on.

  • churkinese on 20/07/2023 - 08:54
    +3

    I work in the industry and have been a landlord myself before. I see this shit all the time, just fix it !
    its not like your not going to get the cost of the toilet replacement including installation as a tax write-off.

    • easternculture on 21/07/2023 - 00:04

      . I see this shit all the time

      Literally

  • meumax on 20/07/2023 - 09:34
    +1

    OP, sometimes things break and no one is at fault due to old age.

    So as the owner, it is your responsibility to fix it unless you have proof the tenant was directly responsible.

  • Salty Pretzel on 20/07/2023 - 09:45
    +2

    You could say this LL doesn't give a shit about his tenants

  • shruglord on 20/07/2023 - 09:46
    +1

    Jesus, fix the shitter.

  • jaimex2 on 20/07/2023 - 09:52
    +1

    Wait for the Aldi special buy toilet. It's like $300 with installation included.

    • MuddyClear on 20/07/2023 - 19:33

      $300 including installation? I believe it when I see it

  • Empharand on 20/07/2023 - 13:26
    +1

    This is such a shit thread. I feel sorry for the tenant that has to deal with such a crappy situation.

  • AMLagonda on 20/07/2023 - 14:13

    All this over a toilet?

    Come on mate just fix it yourself and be done with it..

  • BeingKryptoGuy on 20/07/2023 - 14:20

    It seems pretty cheap so just replace it and move on mate

    • Wiser on 20/07/2023 - 15:45

      May be crowd funding required

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 20/07/2023 - 15:21
    -1

    Post this on r/Ausfinance and r/Australia and grab popcorn lmao

  • Wiser on 20/07/2023 - 15:38
    +2

    Thank God OP is not my land lord !
    Let us take this to Judge Judy

  • Sammy Boi on 20/07/2023 - 16:33
    +4

    Once again another hilarious post.

    A non-fancy basic toilet is like a couple of hundred dollars

    Threatening legal action over something like this is pretty stupid and I suspect any legal firm would laugh at you.

    I guess you didn't think about the price of a toilet compared to pretty much doing anything else in this situation

  • gstfree on 20/07/2023 - 17:09
    -3

    OP repair and increase the rent.

  • capslock janitor on 20/07/2023 - 17:39
    -1

    which state ?

    • john_conner on 20/07/2023 - 18:31
      -1

      It is in a broken state

  • DASHCAM NOW DUDE on 20/07/2023 - 19:24
    +2

    Contact your water supplier. They usually do toilet replacements at very competitive prices.

  • lpn on 20/07/2023 - 22:15
    +5

    I am a landlord myself and it has never crossed my mind to question twice if it came to necessities like replacing a toilet that is broken in my rental. I am sure the tenant didn't purposely break it, either way it would cost more for legal fees then to buy a new toilet.

  • YodaBaby on 20/07/2023 - 22:31
    +3

    You'll be surprised how easily toilets can be broken. Both of our toilet cisterns cracked and leaked because, a few years ago during one of the very hot summers, the water in the pipes was heated hot enough that when we flushed, the cisterns got refilled with this heated water. They immediately cracked due to the sudden change in temperature. Don't assume the tenants damaged them.

  • ColonialBoy on 20/07/2023 - 22:36
    +5

    You are given a tax deduction for depreciation.

    This is not some fantasy amount designed for you to pay less tax. Its because items in the house lose value and you are expected to replace them. So replace the toilet or what ever broke.

    Remember you are running a small business and you need to think and act like a business, and ignore property spruikers.

  • jakesiler on 20/07/2023 - 23:47
    -1

    Isn't fixing/replacing it basically free because you get a tax deduction?

    • Yola on 21/07/2023 - 06:57

      No. It's a deduction, not a reimbursement.

    • AustriaBargain on 22/07/2023 - 13:04

      Assuming he already owns the home and is making a lot of money at his job, then the tax deduction could be quite large. Not free, but still substantial.

  • duchy on 21/07/2023 - 10:11

    Fix it and move on, mate.

  • Cheaplikethebird on 21/07/2023 - 15:31

    It's only reasonable that the tenant should provide proof of body weight to confirm it didn't crack under their own mass.

  • gimme on 21/07/2023 - 16:48
    +1

    FFS RTFT!

  • kiwimex on 21/07/2023 - 22:34

    Nothing worse than a cheap investment property owner! wear and tear replace the bloody thing!

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