Living in Asia - Why Everyone Should Give It a Go

LWe Out Here on 05/08/2023 - 21:27
Last edited 07/08/2023 - 10:23

So I'm creating this thread to have a discussion about the pros and cons of moving to Asia.

A bit of background about myself - 35yo Male, Born and raised in Sydney now residing in Vietnam for the past 6 months.

After 2 long years of covid cooped up inside Australia, I decided I had enough of the rat race in Sydney and made the plunge to move overseas to a different country. Why Vietnam? Cheap cost of living, abundance of teaching jobs, rapidly developing infrastructure and amenities, amazing food and people, to name a few.

Most of my friends thought I was crazy - leaving a comfortable life in Oz to move to a completely different way of living and culture. In Oz, I had a high paying job, friends/family, mortgage paid off. I still question certain aspects of my decision today, and appreciate the things we had like free healthcare and being able to buy things like fresh milk and pasta that wont cost an arm and a leg!

However, in my opinion, I've made the right decision. Life was very mundane in Australia, it was mostly work, go home, gym, eat, repeat. Multiply by 5. Then have a couple days off then do it again. Not saying it was all bad, but after 35 years, I had enough. Not withstanding the insane cost of living - bills galore and only going up and up as most of you reading can attest.

Fast forward to today, Vietnam offers me so much more. In the spirit of Ozbargain, I'll detail my semi frugal life here. Cheap cost of living, inflation here is barely felt. Eating out, travel, entertainment, gym, does not cost an arm and a leg here. Vietnamese street food is incredible and cheap, even some of the western food I've had here is better than back home. Cheap rent (im paying $250/month for a studio near the beach), gym ($25/month), food (varies but no more than $5 a day for 3 filling meals) etc.
People here are way happier than back in Sydney (angry people everywhere) on much less, life does not end after 9pm like in Sydney where everyone is inside watching Netflix, just happy to wander around seeing all the sights, sounds and smells (life does not stop here)! Sitting street side sampling all the tasty delicacies on plastic tables and chairs brings me so much joy.

So just wanted to keep this fairly short, I just wanted to give my perspective on why I made the decision to move out of Australia and maybe inspire some reading who may have the same thought. Cost of living is only getting worse in Oz, housing crisis, every damn thing going up. Happy to hear your thoughts.

Cheers

Travel Asia

closed Comments

    • Scrooge McDuck on 08/08/2023 - 04:53
      +9

      Good job OP. Don't need to stay in the country where we were born when there's a whole world out there.

  • faithdealer on 05/08/2023 - 21:34
    +5

    Sounds p good

    Are you planning to just teach or do you have career goals?

    • [Deactivated] on 10/08/2023 - 18:27
      +1

      LOL. Reminds of the joke, "Q: What do you call someone who hangs around with musicians? A: The drummer."

  • CyberMurning on 05/08/2023 - 21:35
    +12

    Well like tou said cost here is high but you had good paying job.
    What was your job before and how much your salary, compare now in vietnam?

    • Lord Fart Bucket on 05/08/2023 - 22:05
      +7

      And what's their welfare system post 65, or whenever retirement is?

        • Tnetennba on 06/08/2023 - 14:34
          +27

          if only we had system similar to other western country like US

          The US system is massively flawed. Delusional if you want that for Australia. Mandatory superannuation is so much better than what they have (401k etc). It's massively inconsistent over there and people typically might contribute 5-8% (out of their salary btw, not in addition to it) if they have their shit together, but you don't have to and that's how many end up working forever, because they simply can't afford to retire.

          Yes the aged pension is far from perfect but the welfare system here is significantly better than the US (and yes, it's worse than some other countries in Europe and such).

          • SydBoy on 06/08/2023 - 15:03
            +4

            @Tnetennba: i agree what you saying but my point wasn't about comparing two system but it was about allowing Australian to retire overseas without reducing their pension. in us they do allow that and that is the point i was making nothing more.

            we can make a massive thread if we try to compare pension system of various countries… !

            • brad1-8tsi on 07/08/2023 - 18:52
              +2

              @SydBoy: The aged pension is a safety net. It was never intended as a universal payment to all folk over a certain age.

              • RiseAndRuin on 08/08/2023 - 10:30
                +2

                @brad1-8tsi: Exactly. When you're old in Australia, you're just a liability that needs to be disposed of ASAP. Better hope you don't live to be 100 and miserable, after (maybe) working hard all your life.

                • brad1-8tsi on 08/08/2023 - 17:26
                  -1

                  @RiseAndRuin:

                  Exactly. When you're old in Australia, you're just a liability that needs to be disposed of ASAP. Better hope you don't live to be 100 >and miserable, after (maybe) working hard all your life.

                  I'm financially independent because I did work hard all my life. I do not want and do not expect a direct monetary handout from the government. The last thing I want is being answerable to Centrelink.

          • derrida derider on 08/08/2023 - 15:04
            +1

            @Tnetennba: Not only is the US welfare system massively flawed (their health system even more so), it actually costs them more as a percentage of national income than the Australian one. Its just they don't call it welfare - they call it "social security" but it serves exactly the same purpose. Of course they also have 2% of their working age population in jail which I suppose can be thought of as a substitute for welfare.

            The net result of this plus their big defence spending is that the US total tax take is virtually identical to Australia's (again as a proportion of national income). The federal tax take is a little lower than here, but STATE taxes tend to be much higher.

            But the reason the cost of living is so cheap in countries like Vietnam (at least if you are on an Australian income) is just that their currency is so weak compared to Australia's. OP should try importing something online using his Vietnamese wage and he will get a very rude shock.

        • mountaineer on 07/08/2023 - 11:03
          +3

          person goes and decide to retire in Vietnam or China or India or Africa then he/she will not get same pension what they would have got otherwise which to my opinion nuts ..>….This is technically not correct….if you have lived in Australia for 35 years you will get full age pension regardless how long you choose to stay overseas.

          • SydBoy on 07/08/2023 - 11:58
            -1

            @mountaineer: It would be helpful if you could provide the link from Centrelink or any government website that says what you saying.

            I am not checking on you but I know many migrant parents who worked in Australia for many years and now retired but can't afford to go overseas to retire as pension cuts to so low that they can't have better life in developing country as Australia pension system based on what said to me is define pension amount based on where you live.

            Thanks

              • SydBoy on 07/08/2023 - 17:18

                @mountaineer: thanks for the link so basically, person needs to be resident for 35 years (previously 25 years) before they can get continuous full pension and why such rules for someone who is living overseas and not taking up your own resources ?

                in addition the rule says that pension supplement will be reduced to basic if you live overseas … so why that reduction?

                if the person hasn't been resident for more then 35 year then only 26 week is allowed and they need to return.

                now, common-sense says that the probability of Australian born to live overseas for retirement is low compared to immigrant who came to this country and wish retire back home as they have more family overseas then in Australia so why make thing's difficult by changing rule form 25 years to 35 year?

                in us i think requirement is to check-in once every year and that is good and but what is better is allow overseas resident to check-in to local embassy so they don't need to travel and they can even opt for age care overseas (at fraction of cost) then coming back and putting extra cost on tax payer here …. !

                there are lot of advantage in allowing people to retire overseas as long as they are allowed to get full pension and allowed to register/check-in to local embassy in my opinion… ! country will save a lot on number of GP and specialist visit individual does and save on lot of other pensioner discount that federal government gives out .. ! obviously a strict rule & control to avoid mis-use of this system is also required but not something that can't be implimented… in my opinion.

                • drfuzzy on 10/08/2023 - 19:00

                  @SydBoy: It is less burden on the taxpayer if the overseas traveller does not take a pension at all.

                  • SydBoy on 10/08/2023 - 19:03

                    @drfuzzy: overseas traveller are australian citizen so government has a choice force the citizen to live australia to get the penson that they are eligible for and live here poor life and put more stress and burden to australian tax payers or they take pension and live wherever they wanted and reduce use of australian tax payer funded GP services, Free pathology tests, other benefits that government gives to pensioners including old age support etc etc etc… australian tax payer has less burden in my opinion if people are allowed to live overseas with full pension.

                    • SBOB on 10/08/2023 - 19:50

                      @SydBoy:

                      they take pension and live wherever they wanted and reduce use of australian tax payer funded GP services

                      And also add none of that pension back into the economy via any kind of regular daily cost of living, GST, rates, other taxes etc.

                      You're ignoring that part of the pension cost to the government, and assuming none of it cycles it's way back or contributes in any way to the economy.

                      • SydBoy on 10/08/2023 - 20:03

                        @SBOB: i guess you need to think this again…. the cost is way outside what it get's back in term of GST, rates (pensioner gets discount min. rates by the way) and other taxes (not sure what tax pensioner pays if they are on minimum wages but still if there are any)… !

                        we are not talking about working people leave country under 50 year of age and take dole and live in another country… ! we are talking about fragile and those who need most support and obviously cost a lot to tax payer more then what they could give back when they not working and living pension.. !

          • derrida derider on 08/08/2023 - 15:13
            +1

            @mountaineer: You only need be legally resident for the last ten years continuously to get an Australian age pension. What you cannot do is move overseas and still get it, which is a daft policy because over their lifetime the health costs of an old person (including the nursing home) exceeds the cost of our miserly pension.

            If a pensioner moves overseas someone else than Medicare will be paying those costs - we should be TRYING to get them to retire to low cost countries like Vietnam!

        • stingy-oz on 09/08/2023 - 10:26
          1. You quoted a few 3rd world countries and China being one. If you think living in regional China, I'd agree with you but if you're referring to tier 1, 2 or even 3 cities in China then those monies you have would be better used in Aus. China Tier-1 city is very expensive to live in comfortably.
          2. "if only we had system similar to other western country like US". Not sure about other western countries but holy….you mentioned retiring with 800 bucks per fortnight in US………….you have no idea man…..try falling sick in US….. The US is great if you're rich or have a high income
          3. Those that contributed to this country, by means of paying taxes is what given this country what it is. the younger generation is literally reaping the fruit of trees planted by those now on pensions. I am immigrant and I happily agreed pensioners should get their pensions when they eligible and do whatever they want with it. If they decided to live in another country and gets less pension, great, if they want to stay in country-side also great.
          • SydBoy on 10/08/2023 - 19:13

            @stingy-oz: well, I agree cost of living in top tier city in India or china is significantly high, however remember this migrant and mostly who came here had some property or asset left behind or family living in there so they don't need money to buy property which is the highest cost out of all.

            US pension system is not like Australia and their pension do fluctuate form person to person and what tax they paid while working in US which is in a way good system that you get pension in line with the tax you paid during your working life and if you have not worked or paid tax then you get bare minimum benefits. except that health care & education should be free but in US it isn't so for many migrant it is better to live outside us in retirement then in US to avoid those super high cost you talking about.

            your third point to say you are migrant is nothing but a psychological statement as i am migrant and i am okay to get less pension overseas because the whole debate here is about equal pension no matter where you live in your retirement for Australian citizen and right to register & provide your physical existence proof in ambassy overseas. however there are many business lobby who will oppose this because it impact their business more then any one else … like doctors, pathology companies, pharmacies, age care centres etc. etc.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/08/2023 - 18:51

          They have thought it out… They don't want people living a better quality, easier life, with more self-respect or spending their welfare money in another country, meaning it doesn't go around and around in the same system.

          I don't know if Centrelink is still as bad today, but I know a few years ago if you applied for "permission" to keep your pension, disability payment, whatever - but wanted to live overseas, it triggered reviews/interviews until people wound up being forced back into work which otherwise would never have happened! Then they'd spend months, years even, proving they couldn't actually DO that work, doctors and mental health visits, etc to fight to get back onto the payment they had already been approved for, meanwhile annoying the hell out of the frustrated employers forced to give them jobs according to anti-discrimination laws, which those people were unable to do satisfactorily, didn't turn up to work due to medical problems, etc - which, as if they hadn't been humiliated enough, resulted in their only partial payment now being cut off, losing their health care card, etc.

          So you're in a wheelchair, most of your money goes toward a carer to clean your house and backside, eating two meals a day one of which is 2 minute noodles… but you could go some other place like the Philippines where wages are dirt cheap and hire someone else to cook you real food… but you got the life "reviewed" out of you by Centrelink until the unrealistic vipers try to force you into work as a brickies labourer. (I'm exaggerating of course but not by much.)

          Instead Centrelink wanted (still wants?) them to stay here, suffering, freezing, STARVING, humiliated and living in poverty unable to afford electricity and some or all of their medication/s, all so the ailing system they created doesn't implode on their watch.

          • SydBoy on 10/08/2023 - 19:05

            @[Deactivated]: what you saying is what i tried to explain but wasn't as good as you in explaining … ! every capitalist country needs labourer and they need cheap labourer to the rich get's richer and poor get poorer…. !

            • [Deactivated] on 10/08/2023 - 20:55
              +1

              @SydBoy: Well every country is "capitalist" by nature, even socialist and communist countries. i.e. With socialism/communism the people at the top (invariably the government and their friends/family) are the ones with most of the money, while those outside the government eventually have to eat their neighbour's pets (because they already ate their own last week).

              At least with capitalism anyone can become rich with thought, effort, persistence. Whereas the only way private citizens in socialist/communist countries can become wealthy is by breaking the rules and emulating capitalism. e.g. My cow makes milk, I'm supposed to declare exactly how much to the government, who takes it away from me then gives me a fixed welfare payment - but I'm going to start saying my cow made less milk, sell the litre I "stole" to my neighbour cheaper than the local government approved store, and use the money to buy more food than I usually can afford - which that shop keeper may then report me for and I find myself in government "re-education."

              The difference is, capitalist nations only steal part of your money via taxes, to provide part socialism - whereas socialist/communist countries punish hard work, initiative, and independent thought by stealing EVERYTHING a person earns then redistributes a fraction of it to you again along with 99 others. So no-one can build personal wealth except the corrupt people at the top in government, because you have to do what they say and stay dirt poor or else find yourself in those "re-education" camps or just "disappeared."

              Money isn't a limited resource. Just because I have $1M doesn't mean someone else doesn't have $1M. The opposite is true with socialism/communism. If the local police chief takes bribes, the extorted person has no way to earn that bribe amount back. At least not without employing again, some form of capitalism.

              Capitalism isn't perfect but it's the best system we've got. EVERY country that tried the socialism experiment has crashed and burned, often after genocide of millions of its citizens starving to death and/or being murdered and buried in shallow graves by their "leaders." Communism at least partly works because government has their hand around everyone's throat and up their anus like hand puppets dictating what they do and say.

  • Lord Fart Bucket on 05/08/2023 - 21:59
    +24

    Midlife crisis?

    • Ghost47 on 05/08/2023 - 22:28
      +33

      Maybe OP wants a wife.

      Dating here is also WAY easier, not that I struggled in Oz, but people here are less flaky and more open.

      I was right.

      • outlander on 05/08/2023 - 22:54
        +5

        I was right.

        Not until you have left your wife in new orleans with 45c and a can of beans

        • fastnbulbous on 07/08/2023 - 18:41
          +1

          whoop-de-doo, left….

      • OzBarAnon on 09/08/2023 - 00:39
        +14

        Rich foreigner has an easier time in a developing country? What a shocker.

        • Griffindinho on 11/08/2023 - 13:26
          +1

          Being a white guy in Asia is a plus.

  • mskeggs on 05/08/2023 - 22:04
    +35

    I love Vietnam, but had a similar experience living in the UK in my late 20s with a good job/income.
    The ability to reassess everything about your life and live it the way you wish (as opposed to the outcomes of decisions you made from the age of 18) is very freeing.
    Couple that with another culture, and a huge bunch of new and novel things.

    It is great, good on you.

  • orion2013 on 05/08/2023 - 22:04
    +4

    Sounds like you made the right move!

    Roughly how much does teaching job give you?

  • techno2000 on 05/08/2023 - 22:07
    +79

    Why dont you ask the Vietnamese whether they want to move to Australia and check how many refuse?
    Also live on a common man Vietnamese pay and no El Gringo pay and do tell us,How you can buy a Iphone and Car etc?

    Also the Vietnamese in Springvale dont seem that eager to go back to Vietnam permanently even though they must have a Vietnamese fortune after working for a lifetime in Australia.

    I get it,You were bored.But I doubt you want to spend the rest of your life in a dirt poor country especially if you are not from that ethnicity.

    • Lord Fart Bucket on 05/08/2023 - 22:14
      +65

      I get it,You are bored.

      I don't think that's it. OP has issues with Having a female manager and Vaccines, to name a few. Hope he's not putting his personal views on his students in Vietnam.

      • Ghost47 on 05/08/2023 - 22:37
        +64

        No wonder he went overseas to find a wife, and in Asia. Typical. OP gives off major sexpat vibes.

        • Cherry12 on 06/08/2023 - 14:38
          +11

          That comment you linked sounds really creepy!

      • kerfuffle on 06/08/2023 - 08:42
        +17

        Is this SlavOz’s new account after he was permanently banned?

        • Lord Fart Bucket on 06/08/2023 - 09:05
          +2

          If it is, can we stop him from coming back to Oz?

        • smartazz104 on 07/08/2023 - 14:51

          Oh he got banned? What a shame.

        • Guybrush57 on 07/08/2023 - 17:01
          +1

          He got banned? What was the straw that broke the camel's back?

      • [Deactivated] on 10/08/2023 - 19:16
        -6

        You mean just as many doctors, nurses, ambulance drivers, wardsmen, office and other support staff, security guards, etc at hospitals do? Or the head nurse in the ED two weeks ago who told me they've seen and are still seeing coNvid but it's been no worse for anyone they've seen come in than a bad flu and thus a gross overreaction? The cognitive dissonance of some people amazes me. I was driven to the hospital Emergency Department in an ambulance three times in the last 3 years. Each time paramedics shared with me they were concerned about being forced to abandon their jobs, but didn't want to take the fake vaccines because of the excessive number of toxic reactions they were seeing (which by the way, happen with ALL vaccines, but these people were only afraid for their jobs now because the toxic reactions were so prolific and devastating). The first conversation happened shortly after the toxic jabs started to be mandated (even though Snotty of Marketing and the drug companies alike are now saying it was "mandated" - no, just force to take or lose your job - big difference). The driver and his second both said their depot contracts for NSW Health and had about a dozen staff. Because NSW Health was making noises about making it mandatory to be able to enter their buildings, about 8 of those people were deciding whether it was worth the risk to their personal health to keep their jobs, in the face of becoming maimed for life (or dead) and thus unable to work anyway. But they're just all cookers, right? Even though they're at the same or higher "expert" level people like you point to - but only the ones who match your brainwashing. For f-sake, open your eyes.

    • SydBoy on 06/08/2023 - 15:10
      +5

      you are looking at the post different way… ! OP was bored here so he/she went overseas obviously but he/she wasn't saying that living poor life in Vietnam is great but instead he/she trying to say that the wealth he/she earned here in Australia can be better enjoyed overseas in poor country as you are filthy rich there … and you work on your term … !!! 😂

      life in Australia or most western world is monotonous while life in poor countries are more happening and vibrant as people in those country mostly can't afford to sleep at 8pm 😂

      • Alligate on 10/08/2023 - 20:25
        +2

        Hahaha he/she.. good one

    • drfuzzy on 10/08/2023 - 19:01
      +1

      Close minded response. And Vietnam is not "dirt poor". How many times have you visited?

    • dragonxx on 10/08/2023 - 23:40
      +1

      Also live on a common man Vietnamese pay and no El Gringo pay and do tell us,How you can buy a Iphone and Car etc?
      a dirt poor country

      Wow seriously mate, have you been in Vietnam recently? Smart phone is certainly not something as luxurious as you think there. Car is within reach for middle class. Don't get me wrong, Vietnam is far far far from becoming a developed country like Australia but the perception that it is a dirt poor country, it warrants you a visit there.

      Also the Vietnamese in Springvale dont seem that eager to go back to Vietnam permanently even though they must have a Vietnamese fortune after working for a lifetime in Australia.

      and I know a lot of Vietnamese here planning to retire there :) I am not saying you are wrong, but it is certainly too strong statement and simply a bit close-minded ^^

      Your comment reminds me of Vietnamese people arrived boats years ago, every time I talk to them, in their eyes Vietnam is still a very poor country with all the negativities - turned out they haven't been back there since the 80s - 90s. Even worse, someone told they didn't wash their clothes for their 2 weeks trip because water there is polluted and detergent has too much chemical ~.~

      Op is certainly overly positive and and your comment is the opposite

  • hasher22 on 05/08/2023 - 22:13
    +9

    "Cheap cost of living"

    Are you earning local currency or AUD? If it is local currency, what is your current role and how much are you getting?

    Vietnam's minimum wage is roughly 300 AUD per month…. not saying you're earning minimum but your lifestyle now in Vietnam is what many locals possibly want.

    • bohn on 05/08/2023 - 22:38
      +3

      I doubt he earns AUD, but foreigners with a degree teaching English over there will definitely earn more than the minimum wage. I'd he interested to know what the salary is.

      OP made a similar comment about his Vietnam experience here. I asked what the salary was but didn't get an answer.

      • hasher22 on 06/08/2023 - 01:29
        +9

        Maybe he doesn't want to answer cause he's getting good coin.

        Also, he's fortunate enough to have a mortgage free home back here, as the below person stated he could be renting it out and more coin to spend in vietnam.

        Can only speculate, but I think OP is out of touch with a few things

    • trapper on 06/08/2023 - 00:14
      +20

      He has a mortgage free house in Australia so if he's renting that out he probably doesn't have to work at all.

      • hasher22 on 06/08/2023 - 01:27
        +14

        Nice observation.

        Let's say OP is renting it out, that is good coin to live very comfortable in Vietnam PLUS whatever salary he's getting there too.

        I mean, hypothetically, if this was the case then OP is out of touch of current society and is very fortunate.

        Not everyone can pack up and move to the cheap Asian countries.

  • SBOB on 05/08/2023 - 22:22
    +33

    So just wanted to keep this fairly short,

    Ah….if you say so….

    Dating here is also WAY easier, not that I struggled in Oz, but people here are less flaky and more open.

    This one sentence says a lot more than one sentence should :)

    • Muzeeb on 05/08/2023 - 22:41
      +4

      less flaky and more open.

      What does this even mean?

      • HarryBolt66 on 06/08/2023 - 04:16
        +28

        The typical young Vietnamese woman is going to be a lot more willing and eager than a young woman in Sydney with a thousand other White guys in her matches?

      • JIMB0 on 06/08/2023 - 08:49
        +17

        They're looking for a ticket out.

        • SlartiBartFozz on 06/08/2023 - 12:56
          +8

          Certainly a lot of them are.
          However, much like a white Aussie guy might be interested in non-Caucasian (Latina/Asian/Eastern/African/etc) girls in Australia, because they are way more culturally interesting, less pretentious, less entitled and less vanilla, a Viet girl in Viet Nam might be looking for something less generic to her experience of local guys too.

          • [Deactivated] on 07/08/2023 - 09:55
            -6

            @SlartiBartFozz:

            …… non-Caucasian (Latina/Asian/Eastern/African/etc) girls in Australia, because they are way more culturally interesting, less pretentious, less entitled and less vanilla,

            lol

            Generalisation based on ethnicity & so wrong

      • [Deactivated] on 06/08/2023 - 16:07
        +5

        High humidity would mean your skin wouldn't be as dry & pores will be more open

        Source: I had a skin therapist appointment last week

      • coffeeinmyveins on 08/08/2023 - 07:17
        +7

        It means op doesn't have much to offer here and is probably less than attractive but in Vietnam he has more to offer (money) for the girls using him to get to Australia.

        Just wait. He'll start dating someone and she'll be all "baby I want to go Australia"

        • vid_ghost on 08/08/2023 - 16:59
          +1

          Once in Australia she can take half is paid off house

          • afah0447 on 09/08/2023 - 11:21
            +2

            @vid_ghost: This actually happened to a mate of mine. Got divorced, she took half the house and moved back to Vietnam with the proceeds A lot of pressure was applied by her family back in Vietnam to do it.

            • [Deactivated] on 10/08/2023 - 19:22
              -2

              @afah0447: Low value garbage people.

              • dragonxx on 11/08/2023 - 00:12

                @[Deactivated]: Don't just hear from one-side and then judge other side :) Someone might also say to you that he has beaten her so many times that's why they divorced, just hypothesis.

                • [Deactivated] on 11/08/2023 - 00:29

                  @dragonxx: He said her family pushed her to divorce. People who marry then have buyer regret and expect they're entitled to steal half someone else's stuff as a reward for betrayal - are garbage, no matter what else she may have "endured." She is low-value garbage and so are her family, just like every woman (or man) who does the same in Australia.

                  • dragonxx on 11/08/2023 - 00:42

                    @[Deactivated]: I get what you wanted to say I wouldn’t judge other people if I don’t know full story.

            • vid_ghost on 10/08/2023 - 19:44

              @afah0447: Well they can buy 4 houses for the price of half of one in Australia :)

  • Muzeeb on 05/08/2023 - 22:40
    +6

    After 2 long years of covid cooped up inside Australia

    Were lockdowns really this long or do I have a short memory?

    • trapper on 06/08/2023 - 00:16
      +5

      He's talking about the border closure, and yeah it was basically two years.

      • nickj on 10/08/2023 - 08:05

        From roughly 20 March 2020 until December 2021 - assuming we are talking about special-quarantine-free & special-exemption-paperwork-free travel into and out of Australia for citizens, and ignoring any testing requirements.

    • Jake D on 10/08/2023 - 14:38

      I don't think I even did a full five days straight.

  • Hardlyworkin on 05/08/2023 - 22:47

    My 20s and 30s overseas was great though earning money and life in Australia is much easier. As many have said above, it's easy when you have AUD in the bank to fall back on. Good for you giving it a go, pity you didn't take the leap years earlier when working holiday visa were an option.

  • ihbh on 05/08/2023 - 22:52
    +2

    Communist regime- one party - e.g. https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/momentous-day-austra…

    If you've paid off your mortgage and have a high paying job (and sounds like you don't have kids), why don't you invest and then retire early and live off the passive income and do what you want in Australia?

    Oz, housing crisis

    Are you comparing apples with apples? Remote Vietnam vs Global Sydney, etc.

    Also, are you comparing absolute prices or prices relative to avg incomes, etc.?

    • faithdealer on 05/08/2023 - 23:53
      +5

      Because FIRE takes decades and then you still need to live frugally

      It's not comparable to living large in Vietnam

    • Thaal Sinestro on 07/08/2023 - 14:51
      -1

      That's the reason why Vietnam is such a wonderful place to live; it has Communism instead of our venal democratic capitalist system where the poor get poorer (due to inflation and price gouging) and the rich get richer. The Vietcong kicking the Amerikkkans out of their country and removing the puppet American administration of the south was the best thing that ever happened to that country. Even though technologically outmatched the North managed to triumph because they had passion and determination whereas all capitalists care about is their next paycheck and watching trash TV. The same thing happened in the Middle East, low tech but persistent Jihadis booting America out of Afghanistan.

    • coffeeinmyveins on 08/08/2023 - 07:23
      +5

      and do what you want in Australia?

      Because in Vietnam he can get a new girl every week apparently.

      He's got a place that is almost as much as the average wage over there per month, so he's living like a king.

      That would be comparable to someone coming to Australia on $500k a year and being all "wow it's so great here"

  • Ryanek on 05/08/2023 - 22:58
    +1

    What's your plan if you have a major health problem?

    • MrThing on 06/08/2023 - 13:06
      +12

      come back and leach on the Australian system he probably isn't paying for right now being in vietnam and making little to no australian taxable income

      • jackspratt on 06/08/2023 - 18:30
        +8

        If he is renting his house, he is probably paying plenty of taxes.

        Without knowing his health status while he was living in Oz, the fact he had a high paying job, it is likely he is well in credit on taxes and Medicare levies already paid. So hardly "leaching".

        • MrThing on 06/08/2023 - 18:37
          +1

          "High paying job" is a relative term, whats high to one is low to another

          OP never quantified how much his salary was

          Nor did he say what his mortgage was for - house? unit? studio appartment in Campbelltown? That coukd be the difference between a 300k unit or a 1million plus house.

    • MessyG on 07/08/2023 - 17:49
      +1

      Good luck on the medevac out if they don't have private health insurance…usually gets funded by a charity organisation that could have put that money elsewhere..

  • El cheepo on 05/08/2023 - 23:18
    +21

    I’ve lived in a few Asian countries, it’s definitely a nice experience to have and very eye opening to the world outside of Australia.

    But it’s not something that many people from western countries choose to do for life.
    It’s all fun and games for a while, but eventually it gets old and or you miss things from your home country.

    Also don’t be surprised if all the things you find fun and quirky about the place eventually become things that irritate you. Your only 6 months in, the novelty does eventually wear off.

    In any case, enjoy your time there.

    And FWIW
    Inspiring people to move to Asian countries and live their best life just gives some places a little gentle bump towards speeding up gentrification which would eventually undo the cheap lifestyle your enjoying presently. (Bali is a prime example)

  • p1 ama on 05/08/2023 - 23:35
    +125

    Not intending to dissuade anyone from living overseas, I think it can be a great experience, but from someone who's from Asia, I think most of your post is just rose-tinted glasses, and is not at all a true representation of what it is like living away from home.

    After 2 long years of covid cooped up inside Australia, I decided I had enough of the rat race in Sydney and made the plunge to move overseas to a different country. Why Vietnam? Cheap cost of living, abundance of teaching jobs, rapidly developing infrastructure and amenities, amazing food and people, to name a few.

    Cheap cost of living, sure, but that's only because you're able to arbitrage your Australian earnings with the relatively cheap labour over there. Either way, completely agree that this is a valid reason to want to live overseas.

    Abundance of teaching jobs seems to be a strange point - I presume you're teaching English, which is not a particularly well-paying or glamorous job, it will practically have no career progression and is definitely not well-paying, meaning that at some point, your "cheap cost of living" point will run out once you're out of cash that you were able to earn in Australia.

    In terms of amazing people, do you speak the local language? If not, you're probably staying in resorts or touristy places where people are paid to be nice to you. I'm not saying that people are not nice, but without speaking the local language, how can you possibly have any meaningful connection to the locals there?

    In terms of food, I can honestly say that authentic Vietnamese food you can get in areas like Cabramatta will be no different to food that you are eating there.

    Most of my friends thought I was crazy - leaving a comfortable life in Oz to move to a completely different way of living and culture. In Oz, I had a high paying job, friends/family, mortgage paid off. I still question certain aspects of my decision today, and appreciate the things we had like free healthcare and being able to buy things like fresh milk and pasta that wont cost an arm and a leg!

    So basically giving up the three most important things in life - i.e. family, friends, and security (e.g. healthcare) for an adventure. Good on you for doing that, but don't dress it up as more than what it is.

    However, in my opinion, I've made the right decision. Life was very mundane in Australia, it was mostly work, go home, gym, eat, repeat. Multiply by 5. Then have a couple days off then do it again. Not saying it was all bad, but after 35 years, I had enough. Not withstanding the insane cost of living - bills galore and only going up and up as most of you reading can attest.

    This is not really a fair comparison. Basically you are comparing a full time working life in Australia with (practically) being a tourist in Vietnam. Have you had any conversations with the locals about their work? I've worked with many people across south-east Asia in my career so far. Most professionals there work longer hours than I do in Australia, have less of a life than I do in Australia and are working in an environment that's more competitive, with less work-life balance, and cultures which demand more from their employees.

    People here are way happier than back in Sydney (angry people everywhere) on much less, life does not end after 9pm like in Sydney where everyone is inside watching Netflix, just happy to wander around seeing all the sights, sounds and smells (life does not stop here)! Sitting street side sampling all the tasty delicacies on plastic tables and chairs brings me so much joy. Dating here is also WAY easier, not that I struggled in Oz, but people here are less flaky and more open.

    Do you speak the local language? If not, then how could you possibly know about how happy people are?

    If I can offer my perspective as someone from Asia - you sound like a typical Westerner who we used to call the "loser back home", basically someone who lived a boring life, has a bit of money, and then goes to a poor country to feel like a hot shot. It usually lasts a few years, and they all go back home to their mundane lives. It's incredibly offensive for you to say that "people are way happier", because it completely undermines the very real issues that people in a lot of south-east Asian countries face.

    In many of these countries, you do not have the same legal protections you do in Australia, nor the same freedoms. You do not have the same protection from government, authorities, and the law when things go wrong. Rampant corruption means that there are few opportunities for those without money. Working conditions, particularly in factories and for the poor, are sometimes horrible, with very few labour protections and rampant underpayment. Yes, people are superficially happy, and if you go to a resort next to the beach, of course people are paid to be happy, but it's incredibly ignorant to completely overlook the systemic issues people there face and just treat them as entertainment to make you happy. I hope that in your travels there, you actually make a contribution to help the many people in Vietnam who are truly in need.

    Of course, I implore people to travel, and to learn about others and learn about the world, but to do it with empathy and care. Learn about people, their history, their struggles and difficulty. Travel should open your eyes to how difficult the world can be and it should help develop your empathy, not the other way around.

    • El cheepo on 06/08/2023 - 00:15
      +34

      you sound like a typical Westerner who we used to call the "loser back home", basically someone who lived a boring life, has a bit of money, and then goes to a poor country to feel like a hot shot. It usually lasts a few years, and they all go back home to their mundane lives.

      Some people will take this the wrong way, but man you could not be more on the money.
      In my experience living in various Asian countries this sums up 9/10 people i met that moved to Asia to teach English and live there of their own accord.
      (and very often they would often be considered a bit of a social outcast back home, but because they are foreign, they get a bump up to semi celebrity status)

      Op might be the 1/10, but his based on his perspective it seems unlikely.

      It's incredibly offensive for you to say that "people are way happier", because it completely undermines the very real issues that people in a lot of south-east Asian countries face.

      Again, spot on!
      It seriously blows my mind how many foreigners in asia don’t understand this concept.
      The see the smiles and assume “these people are all happy as could be”.
      They don’t understand that while the locals may be smiling, they are facing immense pressure, stress and sadness.

      • echineon on 07/08/2023 - 11:23
        +3

        They don’t understand that while the locals may be smiling, they are facing immense pressure, stress and sadness.

        While that's true - I also want to point out that perspective matters - our standard of living is high compare to Vietnam. People over there could be happy because they didn't know better. I get extreme anxiety watching people working in construction over there, little safety measure however speaking to them it's just the way of life, they got paid they are happy. Something sounding horrific to us like a car accident is just the way of life over there because it happens so often people get desensitised.
        With all that said, 100% learn the language and talk to people who don't get paid talking to you.

        • MessyG on 07/08/2023 - 17:51
          +2

          Of course they know better, they've got TVs. But they have little choice or there's no food on the table.

        • El cheepo on 08/08/2023 - 10:09
          +3

          I use to think that way.
          I use to visit these places and think “I’m sure they are pretty happy with what they have going on in their life, they wouldn’t know life any different “.

          But after living in several asian countries, learning the languages and getting to know the locals, that just isn’t the case.
          They know what a easier life some people have, they just can’t do anything to attain it.
          They are not sad because they don’t live in a big mansion and have a flash car. They just want to be able to provide better for their families like everyone.

          But you are correct about the desensitisation, in some places I’ve lived, sickness, injury and death is common among the less well off and treated differently.

      • Hangryuman on 08/08/2023 - 09:56
        +5

        'while the locals may be smiling, they are facing immense pressure, stress and sadness'

        I once shared my house with a guy from Thailand - in sharing cooking I basically taught him English - from maybe knowing 3 words in English when he arrived, to fluent conversations 3 months later.

        one of the things he told me about Thai culture was that if you do something terrible and unforgivable, they will probably smile - not because they're happy, but out of embarrassment for you - to try to reduce the bad feeling they know you're going to get down the track.

        So OP seeing smiling faces thinking they're all happy - just may be sadness at such an idiot - things ain't gonna go well for that guy …

    • HarryBolt66 on 06/08/2023 - 04:22
      +16

      More people need to be aware of "loser back home". I'm White and we also consider these guys who go to Asia seeking easy dating to be losers here at home. It's pathetic and disgusting. I'm sorry.

      • Hangryuman on 08/08/2023 - 09:57
        +1

        "loser back home" - like pre-1999 'FILTH' - Failed In London, Try Hongkong ?

      • Cyphar on 11/08/2023 - 12:00

        Just had a look at OP's history. Dude loves to objectify women. No wonder he loves Vietnam. Probably spends most of his time down in Bui Vien Street

    • Bargainitis on 06/08/2023 - 11:28
      -3

      you made some valid points mate but could have done it with some watering down… it almost reads like you are attacking OP (maybe i've become more soft these days? haha).

      OP has taken the time to share some thoughts - you can't expect people not from Asia to understand Asia. Its actually quite a complicated region. In any event, he is contributing to society there now.

      I visited Vietnam twice in the last 12 months - I get it. I see it. Count us fortunate to call Australia home. It is sadly, circumstance of one's birth (or adopted country). We are where we are.

      • p1 ama on 06/08/2023 - 12:56
        +28

        you made some valid points mate but could have done it with some watering down… it almost reads like you are attacking OP (maybe i've become more soft these days? haha).

        Not attacking OP, but being from Asia, and still working closely with international colleagues from Asia today, my friends and I have met a lot of people with the same mindset as OP.

        Many of these people we called a "loser back home", harsh, but realistically, most of them came to Asia wanting to experience what it feels like to be rich for a short amount of time, and the vast majority of them generally leave within a few years. Many of these people are entitled, have the mindset that because they're splashing cash, that poor, often underpaid workers need to cater to their every whim, and that they can just parachute into another country (with their own culture) and expect themselves to be the centre of attention. Not saying that OP is like this, but this is the archetype of person who often does what OP is doing now.

        At some point, you realise that living somewhere without any family, friends, or long term connections, and where you don't know the local language, practically live in a bubble, and the only people who you interact with are paid to be nice to you isn't a fulfilling life.

        I think that travel can be an extremely rewarding venture, and implore everyone to travel - backpack through the roads less seen, engage with other cultures, live and learn, but the difference is that a traveller aims to integrate themselves with their surroundings to experience, learn and appreciate the local culture and experience.

        OP has taken the time to share some thoughts - you can't expect people not from Asia to understand Asia. Its actually quite a complicated region.

        Why not? If OP wants to live there, I think OP should understand the language, the culture, the history.

        It's just what we would expect of anyone who comes to Australia - we expect that they learn our language, understand our culture and way of life, share our values, and integrate into our way of life.

        I think it's the height of arrogance for us to then go to other countries and expect the world to revolve around us because we just happen to have a bit of money and think we're the top dog because we were born in a first world country.

        Having travelled extensively myself, I can honestly say that when I speak with locals in more touristy places in Asia, the opinions of Aussies are not very positive. If you go to Indonesia or Thailand (or any other popular tourist destination for Aussies) and get out of the resorts and get to know regular people (as I've had to do for work), you'll hear them talk about how Aussies are rude, entitled, piss on their culture, just come there to get smashed, prey on young girls, and completely disrespect the locals (particularly service workers) who work there. I honestly felt a heck of a lot of shame on behalf of my people.

        • Bargainitis on 06/08/2023 - 14:15
          +2

          Appreciate the thought you put in on your reply.

          A few comments to consider:

          1) OP has only been there for 6 months. It takes time to look outside the box. Everyone is different.

          Btw, OP isn’t exactly a true expat. He is a teacher so likely more modest salary over there. Sure, the translation from having AUD to Dongs makes you may you feel better off but it’s hardly a comparison of skilled labourer (case in point, we recently hired someone paying them A$350K over there).

          He is simply comparing what he spends over there vs here. People do it all the time. I go on holidays wanting to know how far my money can take me.

          Simply trying to draw / imply a conclusion on OP feels a little pre mature is all I am saying.

          2) equality is never going to happen in this world. I have accepted it. Third world countries are what they are. Hating on tourists is silly. They drive significant GDP for many of them. Would you have them make some money or non at all?

          Btw the relationship is the same both ways. They are nice to you because they want a tip. You think they are there to make pure friendship? Don’t be naive.

          Remember that’s how the world revolves. There is always a master / slave concept. I think Australians are generally pretty good. Much better than the Chinese. Usually better than the Americans. More generous than the Europeans. Sure, if you compare us to say Japanes, we might fall short but hardly one not to welcome.

          Some food for thought, perhaps?

          • p1 ama on 06/08/2023 - 18:07
            +18

            @Bargainitis:

            OP has only been there for 6 months. It takes time to look outside the box. Everyone is different. Btw, OP isn’t exactly a true expat. He is a teacher so likely more modest salary over there. Sure, the translation from having AUD to Dongs makes you may you feel better off but it’s hardly a comparison of skilled labourer (case in point, we recently hired someone paying them A$350K over there).

            I'm not aiming anything at OP, as a person, in particular. However, I'm generally speaking to people like OP (and people who OP is also talking to here) to present a counteracting point of view.

            OP is saying that it's great to live in Asia. I'm just saying to consider it a bit more closely because the novelty of "living like a king" wears off, and if you have no interest in integrating yourself with the local people there, learning the local language, living within and amongst the local culture, then you're not going to enjoy living in a bubble in the long run.

            He is simply comparing what he spends over there vs here. People do it all the time. I go on holidays wanting to know how far my money can take me.

            Not really, OP is taking an active stance in convincing people to move to Asia, the title of the post is "why you should give it a go", not "here's how much I spend in Asia". In OP's first sentence, he says that he's inviting a discussion on the pros and cons of living in Asia. I'm simply presenting the cons. You can't present the cons without being honest (which sometimes can be harsh).

            equality is never going to happen in this world. I have accepted it. Third world countries are what they are. Hating on tourists is silly. They drive significant GDP for many of them. Would you have them make some money or non at all?

            Where have I hated on tourists? I have consistently said in every single one of my posts that people should travel. However, people should travel right and do it with respect, care and empathy for the people who have kindly welcomed us into their country. Just having money should not give us the entitlement to disrespect the locals, their culture, and treat people like shit.

            Btw the relationship is the same both ways. They are nice to you because they want a tip. You think they are there to make pure friendship? Don’t be naive.

            Where did I ever say this? My point is that, if you want to actually live somewhere long term, you need to befriend locals (not just people who are nice to you because they want a tip). In order to befriend locals, you need to be open-minded, learn the local language, and integrate into the culture of where you are living. Having the mindset that OP has (and many other Westerners like OP have) will never endear you to the local population.

            Remember that’s how the world revolves. There is always a master / slave concept.

            Wowzers, just when I thought we couldn't be more entitled. You are really suggesting that because you have cash, that others in poorer countries should be your slaves? We should be much more enlightened than this, right?

            I think Australians are generally pretty good. Much better than the Chinese. Usually better than the Americans. More generous than the Europeans. Sure, if you compare us to say Japanes, we might fall short but hardly one not to welcome.

            What makes us better than Chinese or American tourists? In fact, some of the behaviours we see in Chinese tourists here (e.g. being obnoxious, loud, disrespecting our culture, having a very shallow form of tourism)…etc. are all what other countries (particularly those in Asia and the Pacific) think about us.

            Ultimately, my point is not to draw up a tier list of what countries make the best and worst tourists. Just because we're somewhere in that list does not mean that we should not look to behave better, more respectfully and have more empathy.

            • El cheepo on 06/08/2023 - 21:54
              +4

              @p1 ama:

              OP is saying that it's great to live in Asia. I'm just saying to consider it a bit more closely because the novelty of "living like a king" wears off, and if you have no interest in integrating yourself with the local people there, learning the local language, living within and amongst the local culture, then you're not going to enjoy living in a bubble in the long run.

              It is genuinely refreshing to read someone that understands the issues that come with westerners and in particular Aussies living in Asia.

              I’ve never understood how people think if they move abroad and skip out on something as necessary as learning the local language they will still be happy in the long run.

              Wowzers, just when I thought we couldn't be more entitled. You are really suggesting that because you have cash, that others in poorer countries should be your slaves? We should be much more enlightened than this, right?

              @Bargainitis you just displayed a prime example of the subtle and not so subtle (wrong) mindset of people.

              I think Australians are generally pretty good. Much better than the Chinese. Usually better than the Americans. More generous than the Europeans. Sure, if you compare us to say Japanes, we might fall short but hardly one not to welcome.

              We are just as bad as all of them, we are just more inclined to put up with other Aussies as their behaviour closely matches our own abroad - Which outside of Australia, can be perceived as abrasive and just as rude as the nationalities mentioned outside of their home country.
              P1 ama sums it up well.

              What makes us better than Chinese or American tourists? In fact, some of the behaviours we see in Chinese tourists here (e.g. being obnoxious, loud, disrespecting our culture, having a very shallow form of tourism)…etc. are all what other countries (particularly those in Asia and the Pacific) think about us.

              Just because they don’t say it out-loud, doesn’t mean they don’t think it. Many Asian cultures are just a lot more polite and less likely to publicly declare their distain for other nationalities unlike some Australians.

              • Bargainitis on 07/08/2023 - 15:47
                +4

                @El cheepo: @p1 ama

                Thanks for responses.

                A couple things clarify though:

                1) OP was simply sharing his observations and take on living in Asia. He isn't saying you absolutely have to be there. I read it as "if you are thinking about living in Asia, here's a few pros to consider and why I'm here".

                You say you are not attacking OP but I mean…this comes off pretty presumptuous, no? Why stereotype? I certainly would hate it if non-Asians continue to make offensive stereotypes about Asians…

                you sound like a typical Westerner who we used to call the "loser back home", basically someone who lived a boring life, has a bit of money, and then goes to a poor country to feel like a hot shot.

                Dressing it up with a "oh yeah no offense btw" or "not saying its you" - some of us can see through that…

                2) I never said you hated tourists - I was merely describing in the instance locals having angst against tourists. Here's a reality check - don't like dealing with tourists? don't work there. You think the situation is any better in Italy? I was just at the Amalfi Coast, tourists there are no different than tourists elsewhere. Its just how tourists are. They are there for a short time, for a fun time. I'm all for basic courtesy and decency but you make it sound like Asia countries are some sacred ground that needs to be tip-topped around.

                I stand behind my comment earlier, Aussies are generally pretty good. Its not Aussie's fault that these particular countries are "third world". You also called it out, local corruption is a huge driver of why its so bad in those areas. Why is Singapore so much better? exactly. Again, its how the world is and its no one individual's fault but making us out as potential "bad guys" is unfair.

                3) to p1 ama and El cheepo

                You seem to be offended with the "master / slave" comment. The words might be a little outdated but conceptually very real. I am a slave to my boss, in turn he is a slave to his superiors. I am a slave to my bank. Again, raw words but its accurate.

                These hospitality staff work there because they want to make money and they know that being nice and hospitable equates to more money. Don't get me wrong, I treat all staff with the utmost respect (I started as a bartender myself) but we ain't friends. I know what he wants and he knows what I want.

                4) Lastly, the topic of white guys going abroad and dating Asian girls. Historically, I might have thought about it how you described it but I'm indifferent to it now. Takes two to tango, again, not their fault that there is a market over in Asia wanting white guys.

                It may not be synonymous but if our parents came over to seek a better life, why the hate on them seeking one over there?

                • p1 ama on 07/08/2023 - 21:42
                  +7

                  @Bargainitis:

                  You say you are not attacking OP but I mean…this comes off pretty presumptuous, no? Why stereotype? I certainly would hate it if non-Asians continue to make offensive stereotypes about Asians…

                  Regardless of whether it offends you or not, there are a large number of westerners who go to Asia to live like a king and are escaping some sort of boring life at home. This is also what OP claims he is doing.

                  You seem to be overly hung up on whether I'm attacking OP or not. It's broadly irrelevant - I'm speaking to people who may fall into that camp - i.e. if you find your current life boring, going to Asia will give some short-term excitement, but it will not give you long term happiness.

                  I'm all for basic courtesy and decency but you make it sound like Asia countries are some sacred ground that needs to be tip-topped around.

                  You've actually flipped what I'm saying. I'm not saying that Asian countries are sacred grounds, but rather, that any other country you visit around the world is someone else's sacred ground. Travellers should be weary of that, particularly entitled travellers from first-world countries who believe it is their birthright to go wherever they want and do whatever they want.

                  I'm not making these things up - here are some examples.

                  Australians behaving poorly in Indonesia: https://thediplomat.com/2023/05/more-than-embarrassing-austr… (as the article states, Australians need to have greater understanding and respect for Indonesia's cultural norms).

                  Bali locals speaking out on Australian behaviour: https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/2023/04/11/bali-bad-to…

                  Thailand speaking out on the entitlement of western visitors: https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/travel/article/…

                  Another article on Australians behaving badly in Bali: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/apr/27/bali-influence…

                  Its not Aussie's fault that these particular countries are "third world". You also called it out, local corruption is a huge driver of why its so bad in those areas. Why is Singapore so much better? exactly. Again, its how the world is and its no one individual's fault but making us out as potential "bad guys" is unfair.

                  You're confounding two issues. I'm not saying that Australia is directly responsible for other countries being poor. I am saying that travellers need to be respectful of other people. You seem to believe that just because a country is open to tourists, that it gives license for everyone to do whatever shit they please because (i) we are not that bad, and there are worse people, and (ii) they opened themselves up to tourism, so tough titties. You don't see how this is a ridiculous view to have?

                  You seem to be offended with the "master / slave" comment. The words might be a little outdated but conceptually very real. I am a slave to my boss, in turn he is a slave to his superiors. I am a slave to my bank. Again, raw words but its accurate.

                  Except that's not the definition of a slave. You are basically reinventing the meaning of the word "slave". You are not a slave to your boss, you are an free person engaging in a contract with your boss where you are exchanging your labour for monetary compensation. If you do not like your boss, you are able to leave and go work for someone else.

                  Your boss does not own you, your boss does not bring you out back and beat the shit out of you if you underperform, and your boss can't put your decedents and entire family line to work for him.

                  You are not using outdated words, you are basically saying that because you believe that others treat you poorly (i.e. your boss, your bank), that this entitles you to treat others working in the tourism industry poorly.

                  I started as a bartender myself

                  Were you a slave when you were a bartender and were your customers your masters? If you got someone's drink wrong, could they dump a glass in your face? Either you don't know what slavery means, or you are making light of what millions of people have suffered by equating your job to slavery.

                  Lastly, the topic of white guys going abroad and dating Asian girls. Historically, I might have thought about it how you described it but I'm indifferent to it now. Takes two to tango, again, not their fault that there is a market over in Asia wanting white guys.

                  Agreed - but there is a difference between a mutual relationship and one where one party has significantly more power. When you are a well-off rich expat looking for girls to poor girls to bang, there is a power dynamic at play. Obviously not saying that these relationships cannot be genuine, but when one party is basically preying on another and treating them like a commodity (as OP says, they're "easy"), then it becomes an issue, right?

                  It may not be synonymous but if our parents came over to seek a better life, why the hate on them seeking one over there?

                  Because when my parents came to Australia, they planned to live the rest of their lives here, they learned the local language, integrated into Australian culture, got an Australian education, built their careers in Australia, had children who are (only) Australian, with their children going to Australian schools amongst other local kids, with their entire family line becoming Australian people who contribute to our country and build it up and become the fabric of society.

                  Does OP plan to live the rest of his life in Vietnam and learn the local language? No.
                  Does OP consider himself Vietnamese the way that my parents considered themselves Australian the moment they got here? No.
                  If OP has a family in Vietnam, will OP's kids consider themselves Vietnamese and grow up amongst the locals? No.
                  Does OP have any intention of building up a life in Vietnam where he becomes a part of society, contributes, and integrates? No.

                  That's ultimately the difference. OP is there on a long holiday. I'm simply saying that if this is what you want, then go for it, but don't lie to yourself and don't deceive yourself into living a life that you're not.

                  • Bargainitis on 08/08/2023 - 12:04

                    @p1 ama: ok in an attempt to move on from this topic as we are going in circles and I don't want to keep quoting.

                    1) attacking OP or not

                    I read it one way, you might have meant it another. All I'm saying is the moment you stick stereotypes, it will likely become offensive as you start with prejudice.

                    As I stated earlier, OP has just given his observation of living in Vietnam. Btw, he is paying whatever market rate it is over there. I would have more sympathy to your cause if he went over there and squeezed every vendor / third party, which will be a separate issue I'm come back to later below. So what's the big deal? its a free market and he is meeting the market over there.

                    Do you not see how you might be over-reacting?

                    2) tourists being tourists

                    Like I said, tourists are generally the same in ALL countries. Whether you are Asian visiting Australia, whether you are White visiting Asia or another white visiting other countries. You are there for a short time, for a good time and sure you can cherry pick the bad cases out. If you want to go mathematic, that's not even a statistic worth quoting given the volume of Australians visiting Indonesia each year.

                    I stand behind what I said earlier as generally I see us being quite considerate. You will always have a bad apples. It starts with teaching the right behaviours here (and Australians are generally not as self-entitled compared some of the other first world nations). Do you just omit the majority of good cases in favour of bad ones for your cause here?

                    3) Slave / Master concept

                    You seem to also take this too literally and your counter argument doesn't pertain to any relevance here. Yes I can leave and find another job. Same with people working tourists area. They can quit the Hilton Jakarta and work elsewhere. It may not pay as well but legally they are free (just like me) to find a job elsewhere. Also, why use extreme cases like dumping glass in someone's face. Who TF does that?

                    When you start using very extreme cases to defend your point, you actually make it more obvious there are flaws in your argument.

                    4) Dating / Money

                    I didn't even bother bringing this up earlier as its too easy but while you try to paint a saint on some of these countries. The amount of theft and outright robbery on tourists is astounding.

                    Why don't I just leave it at that. As I said, its reflection of certain cultures - if you want to talk about "respect" - there's some serious lessons that need to taught in those respective countries. Btw its a vicious cycle too as it cuts both ways. Can you blame some of tourists when you got these stories floating around. Again, I'm ceebs to dig up links but everyone knows it.

                    5) seeking a better life

                    Firstly, my dad came over admittedly to make some money and go back. An event happened and he stayed. He pays his taxes, he participates in society. Has he grasped English? probably not. I would argue majority of Cabramatta or Ashfield hasn't either. Who cares. Everyone has their story so all i'm saying is don't be so quick to judge. Who knows, OP could really like it and stay. I have heard plenty of westerns stay in Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, etc.

                    I'm signing out of this thread btw. Not because I want the last word but because I think we will just be divided on this topic which is completely fine. I respect your thoughts (dont agree with all and I know you dont with mine and thats fine). Take care.

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