Cheapest since the $229 Centre Con deal and eBay+ Only deal from Titan Gear
Reviews of this 4TB model now available
PS5 compatible
M280CS2241-4TB-CL
Controller: Phison E21T
Memory: Micron 176L QLC
DRAM Cache: None, HMB compatible
Sequential Read: 5000 MB/s
Sequential Write: 4200 MB/s
Random Read: Unknown
Random Write: Unknown
Endurance (TBW): 900 TB
Warranty: 5 Years
What bits makes the M461 better?
https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd_list.php
Pass mark reviews seems to indicate a significant improvement over the 2241 in sequential writes and reads
https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd.php?hdd=PNY%20CS2241%…
https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd.php?hdd=MSI%20M461%20…
MSI Spatium M461 is also QLC. Honestly, for QLC SSDs, just get the cheapest.
ChatGPT cannot stand Silicon Power and Centrecom. Technically, UD90 4TB (QLC) for $208.74 is the OZB record holder of 4TB NVMe SSD.
@netsurfer: Yep it certainly is.
And while I agree qlc is qlc.the performance in the links made me think some will reach the hmb bottleneck quicker. It's a big difference between the two
@maverickjohn: It's a load of misinformation. Be careful because those values don't make sense and it is comparing 2TB (CS2241) vs 4TB (M461).
What's written on the 2 links you provided don't make sense because from the review I saw on CS2241, the figures on the link you provided is too low. Honestly, same controller, same NAND, and QLC, if you really want to believe MSI put more cells in there (despite having the same TBW) and tweaked the firmware (quite unlikely)… then… there is nothing I can do to convince you.
@netsurfer: https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd.php?hdd=MSI%20M461%20…
Here is the 2tb one which is similar to the perf of the 4tb.
I'm not trying to argue. I'm just listing the pass mark performance data.
@maverickjohn: It doesn't feel strange to you that PNY's results are clearly below PCIe gen 3 x4 maximum…. Could they have tested it using a PCIe gen 3 x4 m.2 slot? Also, those tests have nothing to do with HMB bottleneck.
@netsurfer: The p3 plus results although 500gb are also similar to the cs2241.
https://www.harddrivebenchmark.net/hdd.php?hdd=Crucial%20P3%…
I really thought msi has done something to improve over the other 2,but if it's an outlier it could be skewed results. I can't explain the findings. Hence why I thought they have a better handle on the hmb to accommodate the higher consistent read / write speeds
@maverickjohn: Once again, doesn't make sense. P3 Plus' sequential read beats M461. MSI M461 4TB's sequential read and write results, how are they measured?
Here is the quoted speed for the PNY SSD:
Sequential Read: 5000 MB/s
Sequential Write: 4200 MB/s
Now, if the ones you are looking at are NOT measuring max speed, then what exactly is it measuring? I hope it is not an aggregate of results posted by users because if that's the case you have no idea whether they used the slot wired to the CPU and whether that's PCIe gen 3 x4 or PCIe gen 4 x4.
Don't be lazy, look at full reviews, rather than all these generic SSD rating which can be biased and inaccurate. If that site's results can be used as proof, then you can get any of those 3 SSDs, play around with it and then return all of them using those links because none of them matched the quoted speed.
@netsurfer: Valid points. It might be an aggregate.
It just said it's measured using thousands of test results. If that's the case and it's using people who have slotted it on a gen 3 slot etc it could explain how the points have been dragged down.
I tried to find comparison but not much exist. Hence why I defaulted to this. I have been looking for a while
@maverickjohn: That's the problem… thousands of test results from all sorts of combinations. I have a motherboard that has a PCIe gen 2 x4 slot AND I have a way to test NVMe SSDs at PCIe gen 2 x1. I can submit a result for Samsung 990 and make it look like SATA3 result.
Same controller, same QLC NAND (though they could swap to even cheaper ones later on)… just get the cheapest unless your are a MSI fan or love the sticker MSI put on that SSD for some reason.
Don't get fixated on the rated performance. The max write results are clearly SLC cache results. We know the Micron QLC write can be in the 100MB/s mark. pSLC cache is about 25% when the SSD is empty, after the SSD is filled above 80%, best to assume you won't get any SLC write cache.
@netsurfer: Agree, my question was rhetorical, wanted maverick John to do more research. Both are just about identical, hence, get the cheapest
@netsurfer: Is there a way to confirm same qlc Nand? is this educated based on other attributes such as the 900 TBW.
I could only find the wording of 3d Nand for m461.
If the ud90 or any other SSD goes to that price or lower I might buy it. But have held on to the previous results I shared. But I found more information and it is user uploads of passmark. So there is very little integrity. I think because msi m461 is newer it might explain why the results look better. There's just not many comparison reviews out there to measure.
@maverickjohn: The price and the TBW are the biggest suspects.
Using Google, I found a page in Hong Kong talking about the SSD. Using Google Translate, it says:
The M461 is a PCIe 4.0 SSD with QLC, a mid-range speed variant, and no DRAM. The only selling point is the large capacity of 4TB.
Source: https://www.pcmarket.com.hk/pc-walker-20230212-msi-ssd-price…
If you know someone who can read Chinese, ask that person to translate. Let me know if Google Translate incorrectly translated it. M461 stating 3D NAND means QLC is possible.
There is no proper technical review on M461. The reasons I feel is it unsafe to indicate M461 is better are (1) the SSD is too new and it was announced at the time period where component swaps start to happen (2) my most recent purchase from Centre Com is an SSD which I previously purchased and known to be TLC. However, the 2023 batch I purchased this time is QLC. The price difference is less than $10. I don't want other OZBers to be disappointed. It's not a Centre Com issue because A LOT of SSD makers are doing swaps.
@netsurfer: Hang on here buddy, I was just having a similar conversation with you about SSDs and another review being inaccurate and you were going ape and saying "Stop making things up!"
And all I was saying was, between the SK Hynix P41 and the Samsung 990 pro, there's not much difference to deserve a substantial price difference.
Yet here you've flipped the argument and are saying there's not much difference between these SSDs to justify the price difference. This is the pot calling the kettle black.
@bjt: These appear to have the same controller and same NAND type. These are glue and go SSD makers, not Samsung or SK Hynix (those two make controllers, NAND chips and RAM chips). Are you saying P41 and 990 Pro use the SAME controller and SAME NAND and SAME RAM? If so, is SK Hynix using Samsung's parts or Samsung using SK Hynix parts.
Why are you still so fixated on it still? You have both SSDs and you prefer P41. Furthermore, you have Optane as well. P41's temperature might be a bit higher when reviewers tested the thermal. If you found those are overkill tests and don't want to add a heatsink, that's all good. Personally, I probably just put in a cheap heatsink to numb the brain. We are talking about less than $10, surely we wasted more on other toys.
And all I was saying was, between the SK Hynix P41 and the Samsung 990 pro, there's not much difference to deserve a substantial price difference.
That wasn't what I recalled. It was to do with thermal throttling and despite showing multiple reviews indicating 990 Pro is better, you came up with statements such as after the release of 990 Pro, reviewers accept all PCIe gen 4 x4 SSDs throttles??? (to somehow dance around P41 thermal throttling). Thermal throttle has been something reviewers looked at since the beginning of NVMe SSDs. Those reviewers know SSDs better than you and me. Give them some credits.
No single flagship PCIe gen 4 x4 SSD is the best in every aspect. There are areas P41 do better than 990 Pro. However, for thermal, give credit where credit's due, Samsung 990 Pro is better. That's all.
As for price. Honestly, if it weren't due to Amazon UK selling 990 Pro 1TB for $56 that day, 990 Pro is generally overpriced. P41 is also generally overpriced except around Prime Day. P41, people normally get them due to the performance and low power usage. I personally don't see a big deal if it doesn't beat 990 Pro in thermal performance (use a heatsink, problem solved). Just think about all the other aspects P41 are better than 990 Pro. 990 Pro 1TB had to drop to $56 to entice people to buy, what does that tell you? 990 Pro clearly isn't perfect. We don't see P41 or P44 drop to that kind of price.
@netsurfer: Why do you think the industry is moving to 25mm SSDs if it's not for heat dissipation? It's a problem they all are facing, not something inherent to Hynix that Samsung have solved.
@bjt: I honestly still don't get what you are still so fixated on wanting to twist people's mind to accept Hynix can do nothing about it. This 25mm statement doesn't make any sense either.
You still don't get it. Let me try to make it clear one more time:
I have no issue that SK Hynix pushed the controller and NAND a bit further, leading to higher temperature since that does achieve better performance and makes P41 more attractive than Phison E18 based SSDs at the time. It's obvious 990 Pro's temperature is lower because Samsung held it back a bit slightly AND it is a controller released LATER than P41.
You insisting because SK Hynix elected not to do it 2 years ago, NO OTHER SSD makers will ever be able to achieve lower temperature doesn't make any sense. Samsung has other tricks in its sleeve. So do SK Hynix and TSMC. They are not going all out on PCIe gen 4. Furthermore, they need to continue improving.
SK Hynix P41 runs at a higher temperature because it is configured to write at a faster rate than 990 Pro. I don't have an issue with that. I do have issue people arguing because SK Hynix cannot achieve same temperature while writing at a faster rate, 990 Pro's approach is completely useless in lowering the temperature and Samsung has zero change to improve that through using better manufacturing processes.
@netsurfer: Sk Hynix aren't pushing the controller, if anything they're throttling it.
Have you read Tom Hardware's review of the hardware here?
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/solidigm-p44-pro-ssd-re…
"Memory: Micron 176L QLC"
wait wtf i swear this was tlc before, or am I high?
Potentially was the CS2240 (they have many drives with similar codes..likely by design to trick people)
wait, pretty sure the $229 deal from centrecom was 2240? So 2240 is tlc?
This model has always been QLC.
But wait, you forgot about the generous warranty for a mind blowing 900TBW, and they'll remove the DRAM as well because, well, it's overrated.
Centre Con
Heh.
Ah… Didn't realise it, good one from chatGPT. LOL…
new to this whole SSD thing, do I need to search for a certain heatsink to go along or do most heatsinks attach the same to all SSDs?
Trying to get one for my PS5. Thanks
Make sure you get a heatsink that fits in PS5. One of the Orico SSD heatsinks is quite cheap because it is too big to fit in PS5 (so most people don't want that one).
I think this one is single sided which could matter if you want to fit it into a laptop. Don't think there's too many single sided 4TB nvmes out there.
Yeah, can confirm its single sided
with the SSD drives really coming into scale now, how would these go in a RAID setup for a NAS?
(Realise I need to check a NAS wit h NVMe connectors). Want to replace my spinners with a lower power NAS to dump video on.
Not a good idea because:
Not worth it honestly, for $25 extra the msi m461 is better from centrecom. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/789475