My Son Was Not Successful in the Selective Entry Exam - What Can We Learn from This?

blitzzbargain on 08/09/2023 - 23:24
Last edited 12/09/2023 - 21:18

Hi All,

Initially, I was uncertain about whether I should write this post (as it might be controversial), but this is the only place where I can seek input from this wonderful community.
This discussion is merely to gauge what lessons were learned as retrospectives and share with others.

Background:
My son participated in this year's Victoria Selective School exam (Exam for Year 9). He had been diligently preparing for the past 9-10 months leading up to the exam, attending multiple tuition sessions, both at large, well-established tuition centers and private ones. Additionally, he devoted himself to studying beyond his school curriculum for about 2 months before the exam, completing numerous practice test papers. While the cost of these tuition sessions was substantial, I didn't mind spending the money on his education as long as it benefited him.

I want to clarify that I encouraged him to take the exam, but he was willing to do so of his own accord.
He had the potential to succeed, as he is considered an A+ student in his current school.

The results:
He performed exceptionally well on his mock-up exams, so we were quite confident that he would succeed. He performed very well in Reading, Mathematical Reasoning, and Quantitative Reasoning, categorising them as Top and Above Average, However, the actual results were very disappointing especially on the writing and verbal reasoning, well below expectations. He told me that he had the best sleep and was able to concentrate during the exam.

I am proud of what he has done, but I want to learn from this setback.
It is a very challenging experience.
How do I take this as a lesson learned? What went wrong? I doubt the department will revisit this case as it has been decided.

All suggestions are welcome.
Thank you for all the comments! Most of the comments are very supportive, encouraging, and enlightening. Please continue to do so.
I hope some of you will find this thread useful.
However, there are a small number of comments that have resorted to personal attacks on my son (e.g., not good enough, etc.). These comments do not reflect the Ozbargain community and the broader principles of humanity.

Education & Work Selective High School

Comments

        • blitzzbargain on 10/09/2023 - 10:04

          Thanks again @syousef
          He has been actively engaged in various extra-curricular activities, a well-rounded approach to his education and personal growth. He participates in sports both at school and in a club, holding a leadership position within the school, consistently taking part in ICAS competitions, attending public speaking classes, and playing the piano as a leisure pursuit.

          When it comes to his interests and pursuits, I stand firmly behind him, offering my full support. He decides what he wishes to participate in, and I'm committed to providing the necessary resources for this.

          The majority of my income is dedicated to the well-being of our family. I allocate a small portion, approximately $150, for personal expenses, primarily for occasional outings with friends. I don't drink or smoke, and I prioritise the financial needs of my family above all else.

  • slickbro69 on 10/09/2023 - 08:31
    +2

    失败

    • blitzzbargain on 10/09/2023 - 09:26
      -3

      I'm not sure of the purpose of this comment, and I don't understand it. It's possible that the person made a typing error or posted it in the wrong window, or it could be another troll post. :(

      • Muzeeb on 10/09/2023 - 12:18
        +1

        It translates to "fail" in simple Chinese. I'm guessing Google is not one of your strengths.

  • bennos on 10/09/2023 - 08:48

    "diligently preparing for the past 9-10 months leading up to the exam, attending multiple tuition sessions, both at large"

    Lower scores in "written and verbal reasoning"

    Pure maths and science, rote learning though countless hours study doesn't make you special. I find certain cultures denote long hard study as intelligence. The soft skills are as important if not more. What is his EQ like?

    The famous adage comes to mind….. All work and no play make Johnny a dull boy

    • blitzzbargain on 10/09/2023 - 09:52

      He also actively engages in other extracurricular activities and holds leadership roles at school, making him a well-rounded individual. Additionally, he spends time playing games for a few hours a day and socializing with his friends online, striking a balance in his life.
      The most important is to have good time management.

      • bennos on 10/09/2023 - 14:01

        Interesting. Socialising online and games. Does he go out in real life, is he part of a sports club out of school.

        • blitzzbargain on 10/09/2023 - 14:55

          Yes he is part of community sport clubs.

  • jellykingdom on 10/09/2023 - 08:56

    I come from a state where we didnt have selective schools (though i did get a 50% scholarship to a private school, so maybe similar thing…?) so maybe im not understanding some limitations

    Why cant you just move him to a school which you are happy with…?

    Also, personal note, all the studying and tuition and prep that kids do nowadays… Sounds like absolute hell. Like, crippling anxiety creating hell

  • mrfuku on 10/09/2023 - 08:59

    Make your son learn a obscure instrument, get in via a musical entry pathway. One of my siblings did this to get entry into the selective entry highschool I went to after she didn't pass the academic pathway.

    We both have been moderately "successful" if you can call it that, but this is a sample of n=2.

    Even though your son may be at the top of his class currently, it may well be that there are smarter people out there and honestly this is true in many cases in life.

    • blitzzbargain on 10/09/2023 - 09:20
      -1

      Thank you for your comment.
      Unfortunately in Victoria, there is no musical entry pathway for public selective schools.
      He will continue with the current school if he decides to do next year's selective entry, I will support him as well with all the resources that I have.
      It is up to him what he wants to do next.

  • deme on 10/09/2023 - 09:48

    OP updated the post to say:

    Thank you for all the comments! Most of the comments are very supportive, encouraging, and enlightening. Please continue to do so.
    I hope some of you will find this thread useful.
    However, there are a small number of comments that have resorted to personal attacks on my son (e.g., not good enough, etc.). These comments do not reflect the Ozbargain community and the broader principles of humanity.

    I can't see anyone who made a serious personal attack on their son here, can anyone else?

    • kaleidoscope on 10/09/2023 - 10:51

      May be this

      • deme on 10/09/2023 - 11:03

        Maybe your kid is just not that smart?

        Doesn't get into the top x% to get in, seems like a pointless comment but valid none-the-less.

        Unless your issue is with the definition of smart, but then your not talking about personal attacks anymore.

        None of this is going to matter later in life anyway, in a previous job the dude next to me didn't finish high school, didn't go to uni, we earned the same $$$.

        • kaleidoscope on 10/09/2023 - 12:07

          None of this is going to matter later in life anyway.

          Well not 100% but most of it doesn't matter. It's sad lot of people don't understand this until it's too late for their kids…

          • [Deactivated] on 10/09/2023 - 21:20
            +1

            @kaleidoscope: Most of it definitely doesn't matter in this country. Have a mate that is dumb as a goldfish, flunked almost every subject in school except english and revealed only he only recently found out that sun isn't a planet. He is however a joy to speak to and can spark a conversation with anyone. He's recently been promoted to a 6 figure salary position and leads multiple software dev teams.

            Meanwhile I've watched over multiple interviews in current and previous roles and seen academic toppers get rejected because they were introverts, had poor communication skills or were just seen as not being a good cultural fit within teams. Some companies I've worked at have had so many poor experiences with hiring these people that applications focusing too much on academic excellence are seen as a red flag just get filtered out unless they have some sort of substantial experience to go with it. Even then, a more personable but competent candidate would be hired over them. Even in highly technical roles. As others have stated, communication and soft skills are usually seen as being equally if not more important here.

  • fortune500 on 10/09/2023 - 09:52

    My daughter is in selective school and got into both Oopportunity Class and then subsequently selective school. We talk to a lot of parents who were/ are wanting their kids to get into selective school but getting into selective school is not a case of waking up one morning 2, 4 or 6 months before the test and starting the hard learning and practice for it. It takes years and years. Also being A+ in your current year is not good enough. Your child needs to be at least 2 years ahead. Yes there are many parents who will say let your 8 year old go out and have fun instead. But my youngest is in public school and in year 1. There is zero homework. He is already doing year 3 maths. There are some kids that are exceptionally gifted and do not need to study. In general though our daughter studied every day for min 30mins for the years preceeding the exams but she also played music, she also played tennis, saw friends and did many other things. You need to find the minimum time. My daughter is now in year 11 at a selective school, has her diploma in piano, is self directed, high performing and a top 5% student in her school. She got there through hard hard work over years and years. In addition, there are numerous courses to subsribe to online which help parents over the years.

    • deme on 10/09/2023 - 11:04

      Also being A+ in your current year is not good enough.

      • fortune500 on 10/09/2023 - 14:29
        +1

        Being A+ in your year is not a good determination of wether you can get into selective school. The bar is not set for selective school or OC entry. Anyway I just talk from real experience having a wonderful daughter who got into OC (only child who did so in her public school in that year).

    • Muzeeb on 10/09/2023 - 12:21

      top 5% student in her school

      They actually produce and publish this data?

      • deme on 10/09/2023 - 13:40

        Back in my day your position in class was on your report card.

      • fortune500 on 10/09/2023 - 14:26

        when you go to parent teacher interviews and also when you ask your daughter what her rank is compared to the other 110 kids who did their extension maths half yearly test as an example…….yes you know enough to know how they are placed and the teachers in each subject provide the data when asked for to know where your child is positioned in her grade relative to the other students

    • netpenthean on 10/09/2023 - 17:07

      i don't really agree with this.

      both my kids got into selective school

      one kid, we started once a week tuition in about 9 months before (i.e. term 2 of year 6)
      other kid about 6 months before (i.e. term 3 of year 6)

      the goal was to get them used to the types of questions they'd get.

      neither of them were close to A+ student in primary school - lucky if they got two A's in a report
      they did a fair bit of sport/music and almost no homework in primary school.

      one of them got top 5% for ACER private school scholarship test but got no offers, got public selective though - so we just did that (I was surprised no offers with these academic results).

      we were pretty surprised they both got in - I guess it's probably because they never really seemed to do that well at primary - it might be a pro to never having been pumped up…

      • fortune500 on 11/09/2023 - 10:38

        I am really pleased for you and your kids. But I am of the view that this is the exception rather than norm. It is possible your kids are naturally gifted. My daughter went to North Shore Coaching college at Chatswood for 1.5 years. Of the 14 kids in her class none of them got into selective school in the year that she did. Subsequent to this, 5 of the parents asked us at a parents gathering what we did different and we shared notes. It was clear that the regular homework and prep (little by little) over a long period of time supported by some heavy practice test prep leading up to the exams were the major differences. As I noted earlier there are always exceptions but I can see what my younger child learns in year 2. There is almost no homework and being a high performer means one has to put in the hard work over a long period of time. (generally speaking). My daughter did get a full fee paying scholarship to one of the lower north shore private schools which we/ she rejected to get into a public selective school. That was a tough choice but boiled down to the extra cash we would have even with a full scholarship to put into Maths/ English tutors in high school in addition to school band which all costs a lot. On top of all this though our daughter had a strong preference not to go to an all girls private school and wanted to stay with her friends from OC.

        • ddn2004 on 13/09/2023 - 12:15

          To be fair, constantly doing the basics gets you further than most other people.

          I'm the guy who barely passed his courses doing last minute cramming, terrible note taking and the minimum amount of tutorial questions at uni.

  • grr1701 on 10/09/2023 - 10:02

    Perhaps the school accepted the twenty best performing students on the day (or something similar). Your son may have been number 21??

  • EdenKai on 10/09/2023 - 12:23
    +1

    Mmm sometimes there isnt much to take away to begin with. Maybe he was just unlucky. True that your child might be really intelligent and quite smart, but maybe he didnt answer the questions the way the examiners intended. You can be as focussed as you want, but if you just answer the question wrong than its just wrong. To me it seems like possibly your child is like most other kids where theyre really good at certain things and not as great at others. So in this case i think your kid is good at quantitative stuff, like math, physics, stuff that just has rules and formulas, but not as good at qualitative stuff, things that are a bit more open ended. |

    Other things to consider is maybe he didnt get in just because there are other kids who are significantly better. Gotta remember that theres an odd 1000 kids competing for the same thing, there's bound to be kids just better. Dont take it too hard. Id be proud of a kid who was trying his hardest and is showing that he wants to meet his potential.

  • OhmyRyzen on 10/09/2023 - 14:40
    +3

    "and the broader principles of humanity."

    Thankyou for the laugh.

  • yamborghini on 10/09/2023 - 16:03
    +1

    Intelligence is 50-60% genetic so there is only so much you can do about it. Why don't you send him to an APS private school? That is actually better than sending them to a selective school. The Network there is much deeper and it provides yourself and your family with more networking opportunities as well. Its clear you're aiming for Melbourne High, and the median ATAR is only 95, so if you're in the top 10% you can get in easily.

    To me it does seems like your kid is lieing to you and has had to do so to not disappoint you. Either they are a quiet, introverted kid that you've helicoptered in submission or they have become a quiet rebel who has self sabotaged and thrown it to relief himself of pressure. You ask any pressured kid into 'what do you want to do' and their answer will be whatever their parent wants them to do. You'll then turn around to the audience and say 'hey look he said, he wanted this, not my doing but its his own free will'.

    I sense a narcissim here from your thinking and your replies to people. You are trying to portray yourself a certain way whilst being completely oblivious to the true nature of the situation. I guarantee you are 100% Asian from you mentality and replies. Your inability to fault yourself and accept criticism will be something that causes massive issues in the child development to become a well rounded individual. The trauma that you leave him will be with him the rest of his life unless he spends a lot of time to undo it. It's obvious that you tie your child's success to your own success and try to live vicariously through them. The scariest thing is that a narc will never admit or accept they are a narc and never go and seek treatment for it.

    A tip: don't tell your son you're proud of him. Not when you post on ozbargain calling him a failure. He's smart enough to see through those lies and know your true feelings. Every time my mother told me that I knew it was BS.

  • cheekymonkey97 on 10/09/2023 - 16:15
    +4

    This is the most (insert race everyone is thinking) post I've ever read lmao

  • [Deactivated] on 10/09/2023 - 16:22
    +2

    Op what is your end goal here? Are you expecting him to stay and work within Australia? If so do some research or you could be setting your kid up for failure. I've sat in on countless interviews in current and previous jobs. More than often I've seen people get rejected for personality quirks that get embedded from this style of parenting making them fail culture fit or communication ability checks. People that on paper were toppers and had an array of academic awards. The only exception is in fields that have extreme shortages (shortages because no one wants to deal with the stress of these jobs to begin with). You aren't living in a country like Japan where this sort of performance is an expectation for most kids. There are people that have sub par performance in highschool that are still able to do well and be successful..and more importantly, happy in this country.

  • ChatCPT on 10/09/2023 - 16:37
    +13

    However, there are a small number of comments that have resorted to personal attacks on my son (e.g., not good enough, etc.). These comments do not reflect the Ozbargain community and the broader principles of humanity.

    no one attacked your son mate. Only you - parent of the year!
    You want to know your son's biggest problem. Go look in the mirror

  • capslock janitor on 10/09/2023 - 19:31
    +1

    It is a very challenging experience.

    tell him go to tafe get a cert for lucrative mining job, and recoup the costs

  • capslock janitor on 10/09/2023 - 19:47

    While the cost of these tuition sessions was substantial, I didn't mind spending the money on his education as long as it benefited him.

    https://en.meming.world/images/en/8/82/I_Am_Never_Gonna_Fina…

  • dcash on 10/09/2023 - 20:06
    +5

    "While the cost of these tuition sessions was substantial, I didn't mind spending the money on his education as long as it benefited him."

    "Benefited him", or was to be a potential benefit to you in the future? From my experience, most parents who push their kids to do tuition classes and suchlike are doing it with the expectation that their kids will re-pay them (many times over) in the future. It's the old "I sacrificed everything to come to this country and give you the opportunities you have, so you bloody well better take care of me in the future!"

    Just let kids be kids, and if they are naturally smart they'll excel no matter what.

    • kaleidoscope on 10/09/2023 - 21:30
      +3

      "Benefited him", or was to be a potential benefit to you in the future? From my experience, most parents who push their kids to do tuition classes and suchlike are doing it with the expectation that their kids will re-pay them (many times over) in the future. It's the old "I sacrificed everything to come to this country and give you the opportunities you have, so you bloody well better take care of me in the future!"

      Thanks for saying it out loud, somehow op is blind to this 😤

  • frostman on 10/09/2023 - 20:29
    +3

    Private School.

    How about you just leave him alone and stop putting pressure, this crap doesn't generally end well.

    • kaleidoscope on 10/09/2023 - 21:29

      😬 Haven’t you seen the hundreds of comments op made telling he didn’t pressure the kid. So it’s gotta he true I recon.

  • CocaKoala on 10/09/2023 - 21:29

    If he's motivated on his own, how about you back off and let him do his own thing? There are no other lessons for you here, and you are NOT in the picture other than offering the support he needs (he will ask you for it when he needs given he's an A+ student).

  • bobbified on 10/09/2023 - 21:30
    +1

    However, there are a small number of comments that have resorted to personal attacks on my son (e.g., not good enough, etc.)

    I just noticed you added this last bit. If it's not because he was "not good enough, etc", how would you put it? Are you suggesting there's other reasons that we don't know of?

  • Davo1111 on 10/09/2023 - 21:37
    +5

    Ok here's my prediction.

    You're from a cultural background that expects educational performance, and the stress is affecting him (something which he's never going to admit to you).

    I have spoken to friends from the same background and they have said to me that their upbringing has affected them (negatively), and their relationship with their parents.

    • capslock janitor on 10/09/2023 - 22:23
      +1

      academic performance tiger parents will get ya

    • bobbified on 10/09/2023 - 23:18
      +1

      You're from a cultural background that expects educational performance…

      Just say "asian"! haha

      • Davo1111 on 11/09/2023 - 00:24

        I didn't want op to assume it was racial and therefore reject my comment.

  • StingyLizzy on 10/09/2023 - 21:51

    Lots of good advice already posted. OP asks “what went wrong?”. Nothing went wrong! Not getting into MHS is not a failure. There’ll be plenty of disappointed tiger parents and I really feel for these kids. The education department should change the selection process to include an element of luck to better reflect the real world. The department should set a threshold of marks required at the exams (still quite high) to be offered a place instead of top x no. of students. If the number of students who meets the threshold is more than the number of places available, then they all go into a lottery. Students still need to be smart and study hard but if they don’t get in then hopefully their parents won’t be directing their disappointment at their children.

  • ribze1 on 10/09/2023 - 22:22
    +1

    Only four in Victoria, the bar is high. 17 fully selective in Sydney and countless that are partial.

  • Lagger on 10/09/2023 - 22:34

    im reading this and .. please correct me if I am wrong says he was only preparing to get in for 9-10 months?

    When I got into selective school (in sydney) I had 2 years worth of training for that exam (and yes ribze1 is correct. there arent 17 selective schools in Sydney) and yes if this was Melbourne, I probably wouldn't make it in if there's only 4, cause my school is ranked #11 in NSW.

  • TheJoker on 10/09/2023 - 22:53
    +2

    I find it funny the different approaches to education people take. With my kids I simply ask "what do you like?", then, "go do that the best you can". They learn many many times better across everything by focusing on the things they're engaged in. Better than being expected to be good at everything. I learnt too late that grades don't transfer to success. Go to school, go to uni, go work for someone, have minimal time for your family isn't where it's at.

  • haseebsaleem on 10/09/2023 - 23:43
    +4

    "How do I take this as a lesson learned? What went wrong? " -

    Nothing went wrong. Be proud of him for just having a go at the exam. Go take him outdoors, play and fly a kite with him. Buy him a computer game or something.

    My eldest son got in NHS with only 5 months of tutoring. He would still play PS4 and nintendo switch, and chat all night on discord just before exams. We never forced or put him under pressure.
    Our attitude was and always has been - if he gets in, he gets in. If he doesn't, he doesn't. It is not end of the world. This is Australia and they will find a way to survive with or without us.

    I have always supported him and made myself available to him for the good or bad decissions he makes.
    Most importantly be a "friend" to him (within limits offcourse).

    On the other hand, I have a 7 year old in Year 2. He still to this day struggles spelling out 3 letter words (it's covid-19 generation where they missed out on proper schooling). And yet we still are just chill about it and support him as long as he gives it a go.

  • dragonfly090 on 11/09/2023 - 01:13

    OP, firstly - lessons learned is not limited to "what went wrong" - it is also about looking at what did he do right. his attitude to taking up the challenge, his ability to comprehend to topics, his ability to manage time, his social circle etc.

    i am sure you are already aware of this - if not you should have done some homework too.
    The selective school exam results is not a straight outcome of what the kid achieves on the exam day.

    How many excellent, superiors did he score if you dont mind sharing?

    There are two key combinations that play a role in the final outcome.
    1. There is a school quota of top 5% (if i recollect this correct) which is what the kid has been doing last 6+ months in school
    2. Relative hardness of the exam and relative average results

    My observations with these large tuition mobs is
    1. Focus is on large groups - not focused like small groups
    2. The format is heavily focused on solving question papers - which for me is wrong. it demoralises the kids straight away when you take Year 9 topic in Year 8 tuition, for me out 60 questions, kids will get about 45+ wrong. This does not help. Selective schools have 60 questions in 30 mins. which is 2 questions in a minute. I'd prefer the kid to understand to topic for him/her to apply the learning to the question. Focus on understanding what is asked and that makes it easier, rather than solving 1000 questions in 6 months.
    i personally think -

    In summary it is not the end of the world. What he has learnt has already made him successful. It is not a failure - just the sheer attempt, and his efforts to go through the grill, over 9 months is no means inferior to the results.

    There are more options that are next year - when selective schools take entries in Year 10 too and if he is keen there is John Monash Science school.

    And most importantly - you need to tell kid that its ok and keep it business as usual. no change in your attitude towards him - it could be make or break to kids next study years

  • pogichinoy on 11/09/2023 - 01:15
    +1

    Perhaps your son struggled on day.

    But fear not. The more he is out into this position, he will be able to handle pressure better and easier.

    Good luck to your son and his journey!

    • Juice-Wa on 11/09/2023 - 08:53

      I think it's the Dad's journey, not his Son's

  • brockhenry on 11/09/2023 - 08:17
    +2

    We took the view that if our kids needed to have extra tuition to get into a selective school, they probably shouldn't be there anyway.

    • Muzeeb on 11/09/2023 - 12:45

      That's what confuses me. I thought it was for naturally gifted children, not those that studied extra hard for 2 years to get ahead. Bloody weird in my opinion.

  • Juice-Wa on 11/09/2023 - 08:34
    +3

    50% of your OzB posts relate to questions about your child's education and pushing him to pursue extraordinary results. Leave the poor kid alone, if he's naturally intelligent he will thrive and wont need all the pressure you're applying to him. Sounds like you're forcing him to retain information through repetition rather than learning, which explains his subpar results in reasoning. I'm not sure why you're pushing him so hard for a 95+ ATAR when you yourself work in IT, it's not like he comes from a family of doctors. Are you living vicariously through your child?

  • nightmarez3k on 11/09/2023 - 08:42

    Stop trying. Schools are training for robots.

  • TightAl on 11/09/2023 - 08:55

    So hundreds of comments, can OP share what he learnt?
    This thread seems like a whole lot of nothingness with objective experiences

  • icollected on 11/09/2023 - 09:17

    9-10months is hardly enough. Myself and both younger siblings went to Victorian selective schools. Our parents enrolled us 2-3 private tutors and 1 institutional tuition since grade 1. 7 years of preparation. They invested their soul into education and I remember them literally borrowing money from family and friends when they were short instead of allowing us to miss a single tutoring session.

    Luck plays a huge role in success in life (irrespective of your definition of success), but it is not the only factor. Effort, determination and discipline are controllable factors.

    Your son was competing with hundreds, even thousands of students who has invested into the controllable factors from a very early age.
    The odds were against him.
    He may be gifted and naturally smart. But it wasn’t enough. It should be a humbling lesson to see where he truly stands. There are many more milestones ahead and he has every opportunity to succeed.

    • dojomojo on 11/09/2023 - 11:53

      May I ask, looking back and given the opportunity, would you have changed anything about your education path?

      • icollected on 12/09/2023 - 10:47
        +2

        I wouldn’t. I’m truly appreciative of what they’ve done for me. They never disciplined me physically. They encouraged me. They did show many moments of disappointment and even more moments of joy. And I thrived. I excelled in every school I attended until MHS; where I was put in my place. I was average. It was refreshing.

        I did swimming lessons, tennis lessons, guitar for a short while, piano for a big part of my childhood. Like with many kids. I admittedly didn’t want to try new things. And some were forced. But none were forced when I continued to show a dislike. For example swimming was given up for tennis and guitar was given up for piano and a short stint on the violin (which I also gave up).

        I rode my bike. Became an addict of tennis for a few short years.

        I think the community in Australia needs to take a proud and celebrated view to discipline and the pursuit of knowledge. Far too often do I see people unfairly, and often without actually living through it and just repeating the cliches they see online, that a focus on education must be a neglect on everything else that makes a child happy; disapproving and ridiculing those that are determined.

    • Muzeeb on 11/09/2023 - 12:46

      And what are you doing in life now and are you happy doing that role?

      • icollected on 12/09/2023 - 10:55
        +2

        I’m a dentist working 2-3 days a week and co own two practices. I work 2-3 clinical days because I have the privilege to and also because I feel I would do a disservice if I am not giving my all to the work I perform on my patients as a professional of the health industry. I was beginning to tire and realised the quality I was providing began to dwindle due to the work load of a full time week.

        On the side, I started an online store at the age of 17. Currently working on a start up project. In a relationship. Have property, shares, investments. I travel 2-3 times a year.
        I am appreciative of my parents every day. And my friends are all successful in their careers and pursuits. The vast majority of my friend group was from the selective school and all had similar upbringing. Poor parents who dedicated and recognised how life changing education can be.

        To answer your question. I’m happy. I’m very happy. My relationship with my parents are strong. We eat together a lot we reminisce on my accomplishments as well as their struggles. I have no financial worries. I am thankful to them and Australia for saving our lives. My parents taught all their children to understand what opportunities this country has provided for us and to never forget to give back.

    • katykat on 11/09/2023 - 20:28

      I say this with respect that our situations are different.

      However, I think stating that 10 months preparation is not enough for those exams because you got in with many years of rigorous prep kind of misses the point of what they are trying to gauge. They test for aptitude, which I agree some tutoring and extension programs are designed to develop, but most train in repetition which is not always useful for the exams.

      For some, extensive prep will never be enough, for others it might just get them over the line and some don't need it at all.

      My own experience was sitting for MacRob without any prep and no tutoring or extension classes and I got in twice. Once in Year 9, which I chose to turn down. Then I changed my mind for VCE, sat again for Year 11 entry and secured a place.

      Though to be fair, I went to fairly liberal (for the time) private schools that included some extension work and Acer testing as part of the usual curriculum, which meant I knew what I was doing.

      • icollected on 12/09/2023 - 11:16
        +1

        Of course it’s not absolutely necessary. I was answering OP and made reference to the 9-10months of preparation only because they highlighted this and implied this is substantial. Simply put, it’s not substantial.

        I don’t doubt that you were able to get into MacRob without external tuition. Some do, most do not. I can guarantee that if you plot a graph for all successful candidates and how much external studying they did there would be an undeniable correlation between successful acceptance and the number of hours per week doing extra studies. There will be outliers on either end. Those that did little to none getting in. And those that studied voraciously and failing.

        I am simplifying and there are many more factors including social economic standing (private vs public schools) as there are barriers to those who work pay cheque to pay cheque and simply do not have they time or means to help their child.

        I always consider this. With average luck. And average outcomes. How do I improve my odds to achieve a set goal.

    • ddn2004 on 13/09/2023 - 12:39

      To be fair, if the OP's child enjoyed the learning process then his future is bright. Although I feel that he's only doing it because his dad told him to.

  • ChatCPT on 11/09/2023 - 09:38
    +2

    After 5+ pages of comments do you really think this toxic parent is suddenly going to change his ways

    • drfuzzy on 11/09/2023 - 14:50
      +1

      No.

  • playerzer2 on 11/09/2023 - 09:52

    The SEHS entrance exam is a written assessment, designed to test ability rather than achievement and will include a focus on higher order thinking skills.
    Maybe your son just doesn't have it in the "ability" and "higher order thinking skills" department.

  • OG Puppy Banana on 11/09/2023 - 10:05
    +4

    Lesson 1 - If your son was only polling "above average" on areas in bunny tests, there's probably already going to be 30%+ of students with higher aptitude upon arrival. You'll need to accept that while your son is super bright, there are others already brighter, with skills that shine in exam conditions. Also, the written test is probably the best of the four in true assessment, as it can't easily be rote learnt beyond styles and patterns. the creative response sets a much fairer field.

    Perhaps if he made MHS with non top quartile scoring, he would have had to battle from the back of the pack, which can hurt his marks and relationship with you. Seen this story many many times!

    Lesson 2 - Psych has proven that in the long run, motivation is the biggest factor of success. If your child is A+ already, just keep them where they are. They are in the top quartile… just build from there with more tuition and education on how to beat the exams. 11yos don't know about MHS, their parents tell them they need it to coax them to prep for a test. This is super unhealthy for families.

    Lesson 3 - Missing out on MHS can sometimes scar kids if they feel they let their parents and themselves down. This can suffocate the motivation. You need to hurry up and move past it so your child can double down on their success from whatever school they go to from hereon out.

    Good luck!

  • portard on 11/09/2023 - 10:13
    +1

    Try again next year for JMSS

  • JackedBargain on 11/09/2023 - 10:14
    +1

    Once your son arrives in University or College, what selective school he went to or if he even got into a selective school won't mean anything to anyone.

    Once your son gets into the real world and looking for a job, what secondary school he went to will also mean nothing at all to prospective employers.

  • nodiggity on 11/09/2023 - 10:32

    Nephew attended this year's exam too and reported that the change in providers this year actually meant that a backflip in the test format had occurred. So potentially what the kids students had been studying towards in terms of format and typical exam questions in the lead up had changed.

    Might have been a factor in terms of the change in what you have in terms of an 'expected result', or as one of those things that might have 'gone wrong'.

  • ChatCPT on 11/09/2023 - 10:36

    https://www.amazon.com.au/Kobe-Bryant-About-Learning-Losses/…

    …for OP's comprehension

  • the fig man on 11/09/2023 - 11:12
    +6

    @blitzzbargain

    I want to share my story. Maybe you'll take something from it.

    I went to a local primary school before taking (and passing) the entrance exam to an elite boys high school in Sydney. I scored very high in the HSC/ATAR and was admitted to study law at one of the G8 universities. I didn't go on to work in law or practice. Actually, I graduated with average grades (I attribute this partially to 'burn out' and partially to the fact I didn't enjoy the degree).

    Now I work in film and TV and love it. Yes - I have lawyer friends who make truckloads of money, but it's not about the money. It took me a long time to 'get' that.

    My advice for your son — he should take a gap year. He should get a job, then go travel. Experience the real world. I didn't do this, I dived straight in to a 5 year degree that I probably wasn't ready for.

    The end of the day - the grades are not the be all and end all. Look at some people who dropped out of school. They went on to create their own businesses.

    Your son should get real world experience; figure out what his passions are and follow them.
    My 2c

  • drfuzzy on 11/09/2023 - 11:35
    +9

    Your son is not performing at the standard required, despite all his hard work.
    The children who were selected are performing at a higher standard.
    Some of those children also put in alot of hard work to get where they are.
    Others, some of whom are very gifted, did not need to invest effort, performed better than your son, and were accepted.

    There is a sense of entitlement in this thread that your son missed out on something he was entitled to. That is not the case. It reflects on the parent rather than the child.

    • OG Puppy Banana on 11/09/2023 - 12:05

      Not sure why this is downvoted. It's the fairest and most accurate POV.

  • shaybisc on 11/09/2023 - 11:55
    +1

    What kind of exam is it that takes many months if not years training to prepare for? It's not measuring intelligence it's measuring studying.

  • techlead on 11/09/2023 - 12:03
    +1

    Its not the end. Academics is only a stepping stone and not everyone excels at it, don't get too hang up about it.

  • Duckie2hh on 11/09/2023 - 12:16
    +1

    So what? Nothing wrong with failing a selective school exam.

    • Muzeeb on 11/09/2023 - 12:50
      +3

      I suspect it's bringing the OP shame amongst his peers and family. Probably talked up his son for years leading up to this moment and was let down (in his view).

    • deme on 11/09/2023 - 17:59
      +2

      Emotional Damage

  • Bargain Slut on 11/09/2023 - 13:18

    The blunt reality is that the lesson you can learn from this is that sometimes your best isn't as good as someone else's best.

    Long term, hopefully both you and your child will realize, that more importantly, you don't need to be the absolute best based on some narrow metric at a point in time to be happy and successful in life.

    I got into a selective school and refused to go because I wanted to hang out with my friends and didn't actually care that much about school, my ultimate results reflected that - most people would probably say that I've had above average outcomes long term that are not remotely correlated to the quality of my school or the results I achieved (failed to achieve) there.

  • mrjk on 11/09/2023 - 15:07
    +3

    I'll share my experience for what it's worth. In Year 6 I was a top student at my school a long with a bunch of friends, we we're all A/A+ and we all took the entrance exam for the local selective high school. Not a single one of us was accepted. There was only one student from our school who was accepted. That particular student was probably a B+/A student but obviously scored high in the things that they were actually testing and searching for.

    My friends and I were obviously upset at the time, one of them and his parents were actually devastated at the result and kept coming back trying year after year. I think he did eventually make it after a couple years.

    Some practical thoughts for you in your situation. If your son is an A+ student, he obviously did not score highly in the characteristics they were looking for. It's not all about 1's and 2's, X's and O's, but they are probably testing for critical thinking, cognitive ability, emotional intelligence etc. Those are the real differentiators between good and great students - this is all just my opinion of course.

    For now it looks like you may just have to enrol him into the best school you can find and keep trying for a selective school?

    Now… looking back 20 years later, I would say it did not really matter in my situation. I did end up going to a selective school in my senior high school years. I did score well on the ATAR. I did go to uni and get a double degree. I did get a well paying corporate job. I have since quit that corporate job and started my own business, completely unrelated to my studies and not utlising my degree at all. My point is you don't know where life will take you or your son and it's not always all about academics.

    However, I do completely understand wanting to provide the best opporunity for your son to succeed in whatever he wants to do, just like my parents did. Right now if your ambition for him is to score a high ATAR se he can set his future up, that is great, do your best and keep trying. Just don't go overboard and wear out your son on something that may not matter. If he is great, he will be great, just be there for him.

    • congo on 13/09/2023 - 19:11
      +1

      I say that academics is still important. It helps grows the brain.
      If you didn't go to uni, and didn't work in a corporate job, you may not have the 'brain' needed to go into business.

      if you don't have the knack for academics, then don't worry about it.
      But if you have the knack for academics, then there is no harm in following it. It only provides you with more options.

  • xyned on 11/09/2023 - 15:41

    I say, stop pressuring the kid. Let him take his own path. Set him up for his career rather than academic supremacy. Try conferences, magazine subscriptions, community connections etc. Ours is a different education system. Unlike the likes of some 3rd world countries(some of them are huge talent providers), we have an education system which allows for understanding study material and interacting with it with aim of lifelong retention and application. On the other hand, those countries have education system where students are buried under tonnes of books and he/she is unable to understand the material. Often in countries like Nepal and India, you'll see students attending 7 hours of school and then 5 hours of tuition, followed by 3-4 hours of self study.

    Other than his first employer, no one cares about his schooling(there may be some exeptions). The prepared present population is for sellable skill, the less likely we are to depend upon immigration to fill positions.

    I'd love to see government make education easy and reachable for citizens. I'd like to see more home grown doctors, engineers and specialists. I'd like to see our talent be fought over overseas and be seen as a major export. Right now, we are are no where near self-sufficient.

  • mandelbrot on 11/09/2023 - 15:57

    My kids were both top of the class, straight A, extension class students. We put them through tutoring for about 3 years during primary school, partly to prepare them for the selective school tests and also cos they pretty much learnt nothing in their normal public primary school classes.

    They both did well in the selective school tests, but not well enough to get in. I was kinda relieved, since I did not want them to go to the selective school cos the pressure and culture would not have been right for them. The kids I know who got selected are either extremely bright, or are/almost on the spectrum.

    We now spend $30k p.a. per child to send them to the top private schools. We can afford to and see the value in the extended learning, extra curricular activities & connections they garner.

    Regarding Atar - unless you child is aiming for medicine, which is still highly competitive to get in, the entry requirements for pretty much all other uni courses are so watered down these days and easy to get into. Also, as far as I can see, it doesn't take that much effort to get 98 ATAR. It's the 99.9+ scores that require the exponential effort/intelligence.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 11/09/2023 - 17:35
      +1

      it doesn't take that much effort to get 98 ATAR

      Lol, tell that to the other 98% that year.

      • deme on 11/09/2023 - 17:58

        Lol, tell that to the other 98% that year.

        Zegboi, the ATAR isn't a percentile.

  • UFO on 11/09/2023 - 16:32
    +4

    This is such a depressing read… I feel so sad for the OP and their child :(.

    So much pressure and expectation that a selective school is the end all and be all to education and 'success' in life.

    A selective school is just that, incredibly selective on who goes there and who the child will interact with.
    It is not a broad cross section of real life, and as a consequence will not teach the child what real life is and how one interacts within it and how to find their path in it.

    It's buffered, filtered, controlled, and sanitised to the point that all it produces is mind-numbed little robots with no clue on how to interact with different personality types.
    Every single 'selective school product' I've encountered as an employer is missing important characteristics in their personality that can't be measured on a report card.

    It's so sad that parents like OP get hooked up on this notion so blindly. The end product is NOT superior but in fact inferior.

    OP, keep your child in the existing education environment. If you honestly think they are gifted or special, then extra-curricular study at THEIR pace with a one on one professional will be much more beneficial.

    I'm sorry to be direct, but your post (and many responses to others) do not shine a positive light on your parenting philosophy.

    Oh… and your claim that your child has not picked up on your disappointment is very short sighted.
    We can all read between the lines here- and this is just typed text with your ability to delete and edit as appropriate.
    Your child has definitely 'read between the lines in person', believe me. No deletes, no edits, they have a perfect read on your disappointment and expectations.

    Be careful with that, as the consequences could be devastating. You need to open your eyes to the big picture, and quick.

  • Shoppingisfun on 11/09/2023 - 17:55
    +2

    From what I have seen, selective schools can be a really horrible experience for kids because they are just so competitive with kids feeling very much pitted against each other at every turn.

    I think your family may have dodged a bullet here.

    If you are really keen on an accelerated curriculum, look into the SEAL programs at your local secondary schools.

    • blitzzbargain on 12/09/2023 - 21:25
      +1

      Thanks for the advice.
      Yeah, he is currently in a SEAL program.

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