My Son Was Not Successful in the Selective Entry Exam - What Can We Learn from This?

blitzzbargain on 08/09/2023 - 23:24
Last edited 12/09/2023 - 21:18

Hi All,

Initially, I was uncertain about whether I should write this post (as it might be controversial), but this is the only place where I can seek input from this wonderful community.
This discussion is merely to gauge what lessons were learned as retrospectives and share with others.

Background:
My son participated in this year's Victoria Selective School exam (Exam for Year 9). He had been diligently preparing for the past 9-10 months leading up to the exam, attending multiple tuition sessions, both at large, well-established tuition centers and private ones. Additionally, he devoted himself to studying beyond his school curriculum for about 2 months before the exam, completing numerous practice test papers. While the cost of these tuition sessions was substantial, I didn't mind spending the money on his education as long as it benefited him.

I want to clarify that I encouraged him to take the exam, but he was willing to do so of his own accord.
He had the potential to succeed, as he is considered an A+ student in his current school.

The results:
He performed exceptionally well on his mock-up exams, so we were quite confident that he would succeed. He performed very well in Reading, Mathematical Reasoning, and Quantitative Reasoning, categorising them as Top and Above Average, However, the actual results were very disappointing especially on the writing and verbal reasoning, well below expectations. He told me that he had the best sleep and was able to concentrate during the exam.

I am proud of what he has done, but I want to learn from this setback.
It is a very challenging experience.
How do I take this as a lesson learned? What went wrong? I doubt the department will revisit this case as it has been decided.

All suggestions are welcome.
Thank you for all the comments! Most of the comments are very supportive, encouraging, and enlightening. Please continue to do so.
I hope some of you will find this thread useful.
However, there are a small number of comments that have resorted to personal attacks on my son (e.g., not good enough, etc.). These comments do not reflect the Ozbargain community and the broader principles of humanity.

Education & Work Exam Preparation

Comments

  • deneb on 12/09/2023 - 18:04

    Doesn't mean much, getting into Melbourne high doesn't mean your kid is gonna get 95+ by default.

    You as a parent could rent or buy into school zone of a typical strong achieving public schools like Balwyn and Glen Waverly.

    the teachers aren't miles better, just means parents in these suburb paid more for tutoring and sacrifice the kids interest to milk those scale up subjects.

    Back in the days I was tutored everything before school syllabus even got there. School was really just the to consolidate what the tutor taught weeks ago.

    Still doesn't mean much. All that for a ticket into uni… The spesh maths and method are complete blur after 15 years.

    To be honest, you can fail entry test, atar, and uni, and can still make an okay living.

  • spixder on 12/09/2023 - 18:14

    Just means that your son is not mentally gifted, like 99% of the pop, nothing wrong with that. The most gifted kid back in my days wagged school, smoke pot and aced every test that he penned.

  • bjt on 12/09/2023 - 18:49

    Read Cal Newports book "So good they can't ignore you".

    You don't really know the reasons for his entrance rejection - it could have been due to quotas or other crap.

  • herbertg21 on 12/09/2023 - 22:16

    Simple answer, let your kid be a kid. The plus side is that he can now continue the remaining years at high school with his mates that his established friendships with over the last couple years. I do wonder if they only studied and partake in activities that you want them to do rather than the activities that he wants to do.

  • bigsov on 12/09/2023 - 23:09
    +1

    Hi, well done on trying to support your son to get into selective school this year! I fully support your idea and believe you had a good plan and possibly executed it well also. There might have been many factors why he did not get in - luck is one of those. One example is not enough to make strong conclusions. I fully understand you because I was in the same boat - my son also wrote the exam this year and we also went through almost the same process as you. My suggestion to you: talk with your son in a positive way and support him, and listen to what he thinks. He should understand that you are on his side no matter what and you support him in whatever decision he makes. I would also explain him the importance of education in the modern world and still suggest to continue his studies. I also think he needs to have enough time for fun and playing with friends. Importantly your preparation was not a waste of time - whatever he learned during last year will stay with him. So he has the advantage of having additional knowledge and preparation for his future exams. There are many other options for the next year - there is year 10 entry and even though there are less places I know people who got in in the year 10. In addition to that there is JMSS which is very highly regarded as well. Then there are a number of private schools and getting something like 50% or 75% scholarship would be great option for him also. In the worst case if he does tutoring but does not get in anywhere - it will still help him in the VCE. I suggest to get him a reward for preparing well and attempting the exam - he deserved it. And then make a plan for the future together. You both did an amazing job!

    • blitzzbargain on 13/09/2023 - 07:16
      +1

      Thanks for your constructive feedback. That's exactly what I did. I commended him for his efforts and am very proud of what he has accomplished. I also rewarded him for his hard work.

      He plans to try JMSS next year to see how he fares. His determination to succeed is even more evident.

  • MrFrugalSpend on 13/09/2023 - 00:08
    +1

    Something I have learned is the most successful people I know (and in my line of work I meet lots of wealthy successful people), did not go to selective schools or mostly didn't really even ace all their subjects. Most of them were team sport players that excel in social and teamwork and leadership skills.

    Most of the bookworms / nerds do okay… but most spend their lives being walked all over by people who 'work smart' whilst the whiz kids you are aspiring for your son to be 'work hard', doing super long hours exercising their knowledge as an engineer or lawyer or whatever as they were taught at school whilst business owners / managers are making twice as much on kindergarten hours and delegation to teams along with "working" (socialising) at golf / clubs / wine bars / coffee shops / weekends away at conferences all expenses paid on boats and at resorts etc etc and making good money from their networking skills…

    Even specialist consultant doctors, sure they do well, but they work very hard for their money and respect for a long time at all hours of the day and night having studied for over 20 years! Maybe let them get out a bit more and build their social skills instead of focussing so much on mathematic reasoning etc - there are computers and AI to work those things out these days… especially given writing and verbal reasoning (aka communication skills) are where there is a downfall.

  • zealotman on 13/09/2023 - 03:36

    if you have to learn something, that might be, "even though you work extremely hard, you might not get what you want." Some people call this "life is unfair."

  • Stevecro on 13/09/2023 - 08:04
    +7

    Who cares, as long as you and your family are healthy and well, thats all that matters.

    • techno2000 on 13/09/2023 - 09:32
      +2

      This !!

      Australia is a developed country and even an average person leading an average life in a developed country should have a full stomach and shelter and have enough to buy trinkets like Iphone and cars etc.

      So dont stress!

      • SpicyStew on 13/09/2023 - 21:41

        average in Australia is in debt or come from broken families or both

  • shaybisc on 13/09/2023 - 08:23
    +2

    All is not lost. Look at Mike Cannon-Brookes. He wasn't smart enough to get into James Ruse so they had to send him to Cranbrook.

    • congo on 13/09/2023 - 20:37

      Fringe case example.

      • shaybisc on 14/09/2023 - 08:10

        Well I thought it was funny. I doubt Cannon-Brookes tried to get into a selective public school.

        • congo on 14/09/2023 - 15:56

          It's not bad :-)

          I doubt Cannon-Brookes tried to get into a selective public school.

          No idea.
          He did have Info Sys degree in UNSW on a scholarship, so his intelligence was high.
          Cranbrook is ranked around 36, so it's ranked higher than some Selective schools.
          Not all Selective schools are equal.

          He may have got an offer for James Ruse, but turn it down because it was 1 hour drive away.

  • shaybisc on 13/09/2023 - 08:43

    How many Asian parents really fit the stereotype of the Asian parent? If it's the norm there must be a lot of disappointed parents because the vast majority of people are fairly average. Look at the frequency distribution of IQ scores.

  • Duckie2hh on 13/09/2023 - 09:54

    Just become a tradie and earn the big buck$$, moite.

    The world does not need another overqualified barista.

    truth

  • JuryWheel on 13/09/2023 - 11:54
    +1

    Q: Does he go to a private or public school currently?
    I wouldn't be too worried personally - he didn't "fail" in any way. There are very, very limited spots into these selective schools and unfortunately this year he wasnt able to get within their cut off. He may have been the no 101 student, but if they only had 100 spots, he misses out. Had you considered trying to get a scholarship (partial or full) into a highly regarding private school instead? Id imagine many would give you a big discount if he was likely to get a high ATAR result….

  • ttt888 on 13/09/2023 - 13:06
    +1

    ok your son maybe smart, but MHS takes in only 4% from a school. So 4% for a 130 kids year is 5 kids. So at his school probably he as 5 other kids smarter than him??

  • Sammyboy on 13/09/2023 - 13:21

    I hope OP realises that probably over 90% of kids in selective schools will be sending their kids to tuition for all subjects. In some cases its the kids teaching themselves and the tutors which are getting the grades, not the selective itself. Its what ive heard from kids going to selective schools

  • TonyRedgrave on 13/09/2023 - 13:54
    +9

    You've got a lot of replies here, let me chime in as a student that went to a selective entry school in Victoria. My school was great, and I got a fantastic education, but would I do it again? Maybe, but probably not. Let me outline the pros, cons, and give you some advice. I want to be unbiased, and as objective as possible, and do note I am speaking from personal experience.

    The pros of going to that school are that you do make a good number of friends who are intellectually your equal. You are in an environment where academic success and a desire to learn are appreciated, which unfortunately in most Australian schools I find is not the case. I say this as someone with a number of family members and friends in high school education. We are still a sport obsessed country, and that is reflected in the treatment of students who excel at academia rather than sport. It is not the case at some schools, and certainly wasn't at mine, which was great. You also have the benefit of trying things that you may not have otherwise tried- for me it was fencing and cadets, which my folks didn't have the money to let me try outside of school. There's also a strong community culture, and very good teachers that don't speak down to students, as they're profoundly aware that in four short years they're going to be speaking to, in some capacity at least, intellectual peers.

    The cons are the mental health toll that such an environment takes on the students. They're often naturally competitive and are used to winning. Do you know what you learn in your first year at MHS that you won't elsewhere? Humility. A lot of kids struggle with that. There's also the ongoing pressure, which is now not only external (pressure at home) but is now internal (pressure from a classroom full of peers at their level). There's a real mental health crisis at these schools that is, thankfully, being better addressed now, but keep in mind that while the symptoms are being treated, the cause is almost inherent to the environment. A big part of that in VCE is the fact that just about everyone is going to tutoring after school, which sort of invalidates the actual school you attend if you ask me. You also have to consider stuff like travel time to and from school- a lot of people I know lived a fair while away and teenagers need sleep and rest to maintain good mental health. If I had kids, I'd rather they get better sleep than a better education in their mid-late teens.

    Overall, the money and time spent on the tuition will still go a long way, and if he keeps up the hard work, he will do fine. I went to a selective entry school, and it burnt me out big time. I got a mediocre ATAR- bottom 5 worst of my cohort. It didn't matter much, and when my 10 year reunion came around I found that the people I went to HS with were doing no better or worse than lots of people who I met at uni that had gone to their local HS. I know your disappointment is because you want to give your son the best platform from which to launch his own life, but let me tell you from personal experience, that platform is not always a selective entry school. It is, however, always a supportive home environment, resources to help him accelerate where he feels he can outpace his peers, and a reliable social circle which he probably has at his school already. He's going to be fine :)

    • Ramrunner on 13/09/2023 - 16:10
      +2

      100%.

      Both my kids WANTED to go to Perth Mod (Public academically selective school in WA). They were both in a private school which was expensive, but very good and I'm 100% certain they would have thrived there also (but not my bank balance).

      They both got in - no special study - no special tuition, nothing. They only did the test because it's where they wanted to go, given a chance.

      DISCLAIMER - they both do have naturally very high IQs (I'm sure from their mother), in fact my son did well on that Child Genius show in 2019 which we applied for as a laugh really. They had a natural leg up so to speak.

      Now, my daughter is thriving there no doubt, but my son is just an average student. The kids there are amazingly smart, and because he's 2E the lesson plans don't really suit how his brain works, and he's a boy who lets nothing faze him about how he's performing. He's actually acing drama and acting but the rest is just barely OK.

      We never push him on anything except cleaning up after himself at home. We allow the kids to be self motivating. It never, ever, worries me as others have said, Australia is an awesome country to live in and he WILL find his feet and be able to follow his passions regardless of a score on a piece of paper.

      I guess what I'm trying to say is, I'm on the opposite end of the OPs question, yet I don't think his future will at all be shaped by how well he does there.

      He's an awesome kid and that's all I can really ask for. Proud of him whatever he ends up doing.

      I think parent worry way too much personally.

    • h4zey on 13/09/2023 - 20:13
      +1

      You probably won't be able to write as well as this had you only attended your local HS :) Joke aside, well said. OP should definitely take a note especially the last paragraph.

    • brettyfxu on 14/09/2023 - 10:32
      +1

      Your statement on humility really struck a chord with me. I completely agree about the environment - it's not for everyone.

  • MrThing on 13/09/2023 - 15:39
    +1

    im sure he can still get a job as a garbo on the council, chin up mate

    • frostman on 13/09/2023 - 21:23
      +3

      No, that brings great shame to our family! He must be Surgeon or Dentist! His Uncle is coming to visit next year and he MUST see we have a Mercedes parked in our Driveway!

      I shall punish him with 500 hours of Piano lessons and pay for him to do tutoring extra 10 hours per day!

      • MrThing on 14/09/2023 - 06:35
        +3

        Dunno why u got negged, I got ya

        Because OP is exactly that stereotype

        • frostman on 14/09/2023 - 15:44
          +1

          Yes 100% its facts - thankz bruva
          If we were making this all up, it could be crude or racist humour, but it's the reality.
          This isn't cliche' but an Asian friend of mine back at Uni used to joke about this all the time.
          He said a luxury car parked outside is on the MUST list to show wealth to visiting family.
          Op obviously had been providing this expectation to his wider family and when the son didnt make it, he's not hit a brick wall.

  • ttt888 on 13/09/2023 - 23:00
    +1

    I have to say both my boys got into mhs I don't know how. LOL but a bit of luck, Youngest one sat the same exam as OP's son and he was a surprise.
    I don't believe both my boys are A+ students. They are on good days A, since they are not hard working bunch and sometimes tries to be mediocre.

    They just have to be top 4% of their school. (My eldest son's year, it was top 5%.. but this year they reduced it to top 4%)
    My eldest was lucky since during his year, a few top kids got scholarships for private schools. So competition gone, Since MHS exam was held during end of the year due to covid so these kids accepted their scholarships well ahead of the mhs exam.

    I feel sorry for OP's son in a way since OP describe his son as a hard working , A+ student that really wanted a spot and work for it.. For us it wasn't a big deal.. Since their existing school is pretty decent school and we were happy for them to continue there.

    • boretentsu on 10/10/2023 - 23:58
      +1

      Classic tiger parent humble brag with concurrent dismissal of children. I recognise that anywhere!

      • ttt888 on 11/10/2023 - 13:38

        True, I won't be able to share my kids story without sounding like a brag one way or another.

        But at the end gov't selective schools are different. Private scholarships they choose the best of the best. If you are not the best on their level, they won't give anyone scholarships for that year.

        Selective school , you just have to beat your school mates in Yr 8, that's all. In some cases far tougher if you are in top schools.
        But in some cases easier then private scholarships selection.

        Only thing I could "brag" personally is I no longer have to pay school fees for both my kids. Haha. My personal win.

        Ideally I would wish my kids are in top public schools with accelerated classes. But then you have to live in their school zones where house prices are very $$$.

        In MHS there is no accelerated classes and condition of the school is pretty poor.

  • Micka1978 on 14/09/2023 - 04:42

    Hi OP

    I went to MHS and although I was successful at the entrance exam, there were 3 other students from my school that obtained a higher pass mark than me, hence they advised me to come back in Yr10 as they have a fair few amount of students that drop out after 1 year. They said usually if my report from my school is good, they will admit me into Yr 10 and that is exactly what happened. My suggestion is hit them up again in Yr10 and you have a great chance of getting in as a lot of people do drop out after 1 year, the culture there is different than at other schools and it's not for everyone hence the large drop out rates after 1 year.

    Good luck and don't be defeated, what I found is that there are two types of students at these schools - book smart people and crafty people, if you don't fit into one make sure you fit in the other!

    • MrThing on 14/09/2023 - 06:38

      Book smart - no social life kids struggle in the real practical world where relationships and problem solving is king… facts

      • Micka1978 on 18/09/2023 - 11:47

        Just like the students at any other school. A % of them will struggle socially, but there is no correlation to them being smart. Just because you are book smart it does not mean you will struggle in social settings. I had a great social life… well probably too much of a social life! Regardless, to get back to the topic, some kids struggle with certain things and others don't. I also know that some of the most successful and richest people I know actually dropped out of school before finishing Year 12 and became tradespeople or started a business (Lindsey Fox - who actually went to a selective high school), so in no way does not going to a selective school mean that you cannot still "make it" . After my 45 years of being on this planet all I know for certain is that you end up being a product of your environment, so why would you not want to surround yourself with the brightest students from every school? Thanks and good luck to you all.

  • MrThing on 14/09/2023 - 06:36
    +1

    What is an A+ student anyway? I wasnt aware thats how we marked academic achievement in the real world, is that not just for hollywood movies?

    When I was at school, grades where categorised by "bands"

    • congo on 14/09/2023 - 09:34
      +2

      A, B, C , D are "bands".

    • miicah on 14/09/2023 - 11:18

      You mean like VHA, HA…etc?

      • MrThing on 18/09/2023 - 12:13

        When I was at school the grades that mattered were based on Band 1 through Band 6

  • gbinitt on 14/09/2023 - 09:36
    +2

    “Kids, you tried your best, and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try.”

    • congo on 14/09/2023 - 15:54

      Kid: "Dad, I want to study extra Maths & English in prep for the Selective Tests, can I please"?
      Dad: "The lesson is son, never try!!"

      What would be the correct response from dad?

  • sandman87 on 14/09/2023 - 10:31
    +1

    Would be interesting to see the mark that was awarded for each section vs. expectations. In my experience as a teacher there are times where students score very high marks, but this can be the result of bias. Not bias in the sense that the teachers favour your child, but that their work is noticably better than their peers, so they give them a high mark. I used to do this accidentally - I would mark dozens of very poor assessments, and then I would see a task that was done better (but not perfectly) and give a mark that was probably too high. Theres the potential that your child has had that experience and perhaps may have had their true level of ability not assessed properly. But judging by the fact that your child has had extensive tutoring and preparation, it could just come down to the fact that the standard they expected in some of the areas that did not meet expectations, are very high, so they can differentiate between the truly top students and those who are just very good.

    I think the lesson I would take away from this is that its not possible for everyone to be the best and that hard work and effort will be rewarded in personal satisfaction, increased confidence, etc. Your child put in a lot of effort and did their best, which is all you can really hope for as a parent and as a teacher.

  • SpicyStew on 14/09/2023 - 10:33
    +3

    beta rollout was successful but going live on production failed. it happens all the time irl.

    • congo on 14/09/2023 - 16:17

      Is this some kind of meme?
      Don't get what you are saying.

      • CocaKoala on 14/09/2023 - 19:06

        Software development terminology.

        • congo on 14/09/2023 - 19:36

          Ok, must be a joke. Cheers.

  • JustNotGod on 18/09/2023 - 23:35

    Don't make it to stick to your head and more importantly to your Son's Head. Knowledge and then Wisdom is what makes the life of individual. He prepared for this test so he anyway attain the knowledge to his capacity. Next is wisdom …make him to work towards becoming better human and i am sure he will craft a very beautiful life. These test and exams are nothing in larger schema of life. So, give him a treat and help him to pass by this moment !! Enjoy

  • Digger111 on 21/09/2023 - 12:47
    -4

    Chinese possibly ? They are usually the ones trying to scam the selective entry requirements.
    Supposed to be for talented students, not the ones whose parents can afford to pay for tuition.

  • drongobongo on 22/09/2023 - 10:01

    As an Asian person with tiger parents, you need to chill tf out or your kid is going to resent you and stop talking to you as an adult.

  • ultracheapweeabookun on 25/09/2023 - 22:09

    it is what it is…

  • Unified on 24/01/2025 - 11:21

    Very good discussion and everyone's response is insightful. I think sometime peer pressure is an interesting thing particularly in today's technology driven culture. Even the best parents can teach/lecture their kids all day in the best possible home/environment and the next minute, the kid can be swayed to a completely different area from looking at facebook, insta, discord or one of their friends are saying. Some kids are naturally talented to trick other kids to drive them crazy and then enjoy the fun how others are fall for them.

    Competition is sometime good for some to flourish their inner strengths, and these competitive exams are just one opportunity. If all good/best students were to tell their strategy to excel to rest of their friends and they were to follow even 80%, then would be hard for those good/best students to excel. This is probably the reason, tutoring/coaching helps those who has the inner strengths but don't know how to execute them or transpose them in a test.

  • shaybisc on 29/01/2025 - 17:56
    +1

    To find out whether there are benefits associated with selective schools, Tham and her colleagues Shuyan Huo, and Andrew Wade tracked almost 3000 pupils from the Longitudinal Surveys of Australian Youth (LSAY), a nationally representative survey program that follows young Australians over an 11-year period. The survey started when respondents were aged 15 in 2009.

    As expected, the selective schools featured in the study had a higher proportion of academically high-achieving students, as measured by mathematics and reading scores.

    However, at ages 19 and 25 there was little difference between the educational and employment outcomes of children who attended selective schools versus non-selective schools. For example, the study found that while 81% of selective school students went on to secure a job or university place at 19 compared to 77.6% of pupils from non-selective schools, this difference disappeared when the students were matched on key characteristics, including socioeconomic background, gender, and geographical location.

    At age 25, all outcomes between selective and non-selective school students were not significant, except general life satisfaction. Attending a selective school increased a student's general life satisfaction score by just 0.19 points. Meanwhile, students who attended non-selective school were just as likely to go on to study at university or secure a job as their peers who attended selective schools.

    "These very modest findings indicate that attending an academically selective school does not appear to pay off in large benefits for individuals," says Andrew Wade, co-author of the study.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/07/240704122222.h…

    Melissa Tham, Shuyan Huo, Andrew Wade. Does School Academic Selectivity Pay Off? The Education, Employment and Life Satisfaction Outcomes of Australian Students. British Journal of Educational Studies, 2024; 1 DOI:

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