My Son Was Not Successful in the Selective Entry Exam - What Can We Learn from This?

blitzzbargain on 08/09/2023 - 23:24
Last edited 12/09/2023 - 21:18

Hi All,

Initially, I was uncertain about whether I should write this post (as it might be controversial), but this is the only place where I can seek input from this wonderful community.
This discussion is merely to gauge what lessons were learned as retrospectives and share with others.

Background:
My son participated in this year's Victoria Selective School exam (Exam for Year 9). He had been diligently preparing for the past 9-10 months leading up to the exam, attending multiple tuition sessions, both at large, well-established tuition centers and private ones. Additionally, he devoted himself to studying beyond his school curriculum for about 2 months before the exam, completing numerous practice test papers. While the cost of these tuition sessions was substantial, I didn't mind spending the money on his education as long as it benefited him.

I want to clarify that I encouraged him to take the exam, but he was willing to do so of his own accord.
He had the potential to succeed, as he is considered an A+ student in his current school.

The results:
He performed exceptionally well on his mock-up exams, so we were quite confident that he would succeed. He performed very well in Reading, Mathematical Reasoning, and Quantitative Reasoning, categorising them as Top and Above Average, However, the actual results were very disappointing especially on the writing and verbal reasoning, well below expectations. He told me that he had the best sleep and was able to concentrate during the exam.

I am proud of what he has done, but I want to learn from this setback.
It is a very challenging experience.
How do I take this as a lesson learned? What went wrong? I doubt the department will revisit this case as it has been decided.

All suggestions are welcome.
Thank you for all the comments! Most of the comments are very supportive, encouraging, and enlightening. Please continue to do so.
I hope some of you will find this thread useful.
However, there are a small number of comments that have resorted to personal attacks on my son (e.g., not good enough, etc.). These comments do not reflect the Ozbargain community and the broader principles of humanity.

Education & Work Selective High School

Comments

    • Wally on 12/09/2023 - 11:38
      +1

      the pressure is real!

      Imagine subjecting that poor kid not to a direct dialogue but to being filmed while engaged in an emotional exchange with the parent (who is 'failing' by not filming in landscape mode ;-)) and then uploading the exchange to the internet to subject the child to even more scrutiny! FFS

      • ChatCPT on 12/09/2023 - 15:29

        I laughed but 100% - this parent failed on so many levels. Not too dissimilar to OP hence thought it was relevant
        The little girl is very mature beyond her years but I suspect OP's son may have a blowout moment too in the not-too-distant future

    • mandelbrot on 12/09/2023 - 11:54

      That's so sad. Girls seems highly emotionally intelligent too.

      • ChatCPT on 12/09/2023 - 15:29
        -1

        As opposed to?

  • mattie on 11/09/2023 - 19:34

    3 of my 4 kids are in selective the 4th didn't even try because we knew she wasn't suitable , selective are good for the kids that deserve to be in them , a lot of the kids have been tutored for years to learn how to do the tricky test questions but once in they struggle and need more tutoring the whole 6 years just to keep up , it's a status symbol for some parents

    • ChatCPT on 12/09/2023 - 15:34

      maybe some but not all. I have to disagree because both my brother and I went to Selective high schools.
      My dad didn't spend a single $ on tutoring and no we were not geniuses either. Parents put absolutely no pressure and said give it a go… in fact school teacher put pressure and brother came home upset. Mum went to bat for us next day!

      PS. School was ranked 14 in NSW (public private all) when I entered

  • 10101010101 on 11/09/2023 - 19:55
    +1

    Purely stereotyping Asians are crap at English especially if their parents aren't native English speakers. My mum is born here and dad came over when he was 12 so I had a reasonable chance at doing ok in English at school. But it was my weakest subject by far and often disgraced my fellow Asians by scoring C+ to B+ on my tests! Oh the shame 🤣.
    Fortunately my parents weren't tiger parents and I studied for myself in between playing cards throughout year 11 and 12. Your son is better off not going to a selective school, now has a better chance at being top of his school if that's what he wants. Be supportive as a parent and teach your kids resilience. Even year 12 exams are meaningless in the scheme of things.

    Question: are you and your wife strong English speakers? What about relatives? Instead of focusing on what your son did wrong focus on what you should have done better. Perhaps you didn't create the right environment to succeed?

    Sorry half of me feels like criticising you as the parent but the other half wants to let you know everything will work out in its own way. It's hardly the worse thing in the world. Be grateful for everything you both have and what you both have to look forward to.

  • dfg555 on 11/09/2023 - 20:07

    lol this doesnt matter irl, what matters is networking. lots of corpos are at the top because they abuse networking and the power of sociopathy.

  • Fysh on 11/09/2023 - 20:10
    +5

    Single most traumatic thing my parents did to me was make me do Math 1, Math 2, Physics, Chemistry and they wanted me to do English too. But they "compromised" and let me do Economics instead. They promptly divorced I failed they made me repeat. I never got the degree they wanted to have. Also wasn't the Olympic sports star they wanted.

    Let them perform within their means and do things they like. Don't live through your kids.

  • blitzzbargain on 11/09/2023 - 22:14

    Hi All,

    I'm genuinely heartened by the engagement in this discussion, and I greatly appreciate your valuable insights and perspectives.
    At the same time, I'm taken aback to see that some of you hold a strong opinion that I was forcing my son to study hard and take the exam.

    I've reiterated multiple times that he's wholeheartedly pursuing this educational path of his own volition. Every tuition he attended was by his choice, and I've provided unwavering support in every way possible. He possesses his unique determination and study methods, and I respect his autonomy in making these decisions.

    As I mentioned, I prioritise the needs of my family above all else, including morale and financial support. I seldom spend money on myself because my primary focus is ensuring the well-being and happiness of my loved ones. Whether it's dedicating my time, effort, or resources to my family's needs and supporting their aspirations.

    I've consistently expressed my pride in his hard work and even acknowledged it with rewards. It's important to me that he understands his efforts are genuinely appreciated, irrespective of the outcome. I even plan a big overseas holiday at the end of the year to celebrate his effort.

    As mentioned earlier, the primary reason he didn't secure the spot is likely related to his performance in the writing component. This outcome was surprising to him as he believed he had performed well in that part. This setback has offered him the valuable opportunity for reflection and improvement in his writing skills, an integral part of the learning experience.

    In our household, whenever things don't go as planned, we dedicate time to retrospectives and consider the lessons we've learned. Since this is our first experience with this particular situation, I acknowledge my limited knowledge, which is why I'm reaching out for your opinions and insights.

    The essence of this discussion is twofold. Firstly, we aim to connect with individuals who may have faced similar educational challenges, seeking advice, insights, and tips from those who have navigated similar paths. Secondly, my son has expressed a strong desire to attempt the JMSS exam again next year; this decision is entirely his. I'm fully committed to supporting him in every conceivable way on this journey. Some of you even sent me private messages for encouragement, which indicates the strong bond in this community.

    I understand that some may choose to label me as a "tiger parent" or accuse me of having excessively high expectations, but that's far from the truth. My foremost priority is to be a pillar of support for my son as he pursues his own goals and dreams, without any imposition from my end. We firmly believe in nurturing his interests and passions while helping him cultivate the resilience and determination needed to tackle life's challenges.
    I cannot control your opinions of me, but I can only share what the real situation is.

    Once again, thank you for your understanding and for being an invaluable part of this discussion in a supportive community.

    Best regards,

    • bobolo on 11/09/2023 - 23:04
      +5

      If he turned around tomorrow and said Dad I don't want to study and pursue academics any more. I want to become a plumber or pursue a career in art.

      Would you be equally as supportive?

      • DrPopkorne on 12/09/2023 - 10:25

        I too wonder if he said he wanted to end studies and go play on the XBOX to stomp some noobs on Fortnite all weekend, would the support be the same?

        • bobolo on 12/09/2023 - 13:55
          +1

          Lets not take it to extremes. But my point is if he would disappove of his son not following the academic path, then his whole "pillar of support" rant would be nothing but a guise for him being an actual tiger parent, and even worse - convincing himself that its OK to do so.

          Its in most kids nature to want to please their parents. Be careful how you take advantage of that

      • dragonfly090 on 12/09/2023 - 17:26

        No asian, Indian or srilankan parents will ever say that. It is just how parents have grown up, education is the way to survive and to grow from the lower middle class or lower class.

        • bobolo on 12/09/2023 - 20:35

          Not entirely true. For Asian parents I found growing up its 50% wanting the kid to do well and also 50% to show face or some kind of quiet one upmanship with family and friends. Culturally asians are always competitive with each other from an academic, financial, success, house, cars etc standpoint. Why do you think Piano and Violin are always the instruments of choice for Asian kids? Because Asian parents can compare/showoff their kids with other Asian parents who are learning the same instrument, conveniently via a level of grades. It has very little to do with the love or the art of playing the instrument

          The one thing that tends to shut Asian parents up is if the kid ends up making a tonne of money. They don't actually care if you do it via being a doctor/lawyer, or being a famous youtuber. Although you are going to get a lot of negative crap on your way to becoming a successful youtuber.

        • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2023 - 02:01
          -1

          education is the way to survive and to grow from the lower middle class

          No, it's the way for these people to secure their retirement though their kids. If you look at the achievements of parents who push education on their kids this hard, you will find many of these parents are just some cog in a wheel doing manual labour or some other monotonous low paying job they they have remained stuck to for several decades. They have never thought out of the box, don't have any retirement savings and dump all their income on their kids in hopes of being taken care of. For many this is the only reason they reproduce. Even when these kids grow up, their parents prod them to get promotions and higher positions of status… things which they them selves didn't bother to do.

          You are correct that this is lower-middle class behaviour. Most successful parents I've come across, even in these communities, don't obsess over their kid's education this much. They realise letting kids be kids and having social skills/connections is 100000x more important for success. These parents make time for themselves where they can as well as their own hobbies instead. It all comes down to parents themselves being miserable, unsuccessful, insecure and living through their kids while using them as a retirement fund.

    • Muzeeb on 12/09/2023 - 01:00

      Life is about balance. You don't have to dedicate 100% of yourself to your family and child. That's not how it works.

    • ChatCPT on 12/09/2023 - 11:17
      +3

      I even plan a big overseas holiday at the end of the year to celebrate his effort.

      So he only gets a holiday for studying hard?

      As I mentioned, I prioritise the needs of my family above all else, including morale and financial support. I seldom spend money on myself

      Sounds pretty unhealthy dude. Looks like all you do is pester them instead having your own life

      In our household, whenever things don't go as planned, we dedicate time to retrospectives and consider the lessons we've learned

      Give it a rest man, he's ******* 12 years old!

      I've reiterated multiple times that he's wholeheartedly pursuing this educational path of his own volition. Every tuition he attended was by his choice

      With a parent like you - did he really have a choice?

      I understand that some may choose to label me as a "tiger parent" or accuse me of having excessively high expectations, but that's far from the truth. My foremost priority is to be a pillar of support for my son as he pursues his own goals and dreams, without any imposition from my end.

      You can keep fooling yourself but rest assured you aren't fooling us and likely your family.
      When your son turns 18 and he runs out the door and never turns back - maybe then you will realise how corrupt you were and some of your own "time to retrospectives and consider the lessons we've learned"

      • blitzzbargain on 12/09/2023 - 21:06
        -2

        FYI, my son is not 12 years old, as you stated; he is currently in Year 8. In a few months' time, he will be in senior high school and eligible to work. He is well aware of what he is doing and what he wants to achieve. So, there might have been a misunderstanding from the beginning.

        I am uncertain what you gained with all your 11 strong negative comments towards me (1000% Asian, Corrupt, Worst Parent, etc.) starting from the beginning. If I have offended you in any way which I don't have any intention to do so, I sincerely apologise 🙏

        • ChatCPT on 12/09/2023 - 21:44
          -2

          he is currently in Year 8. In a few months' time, he will be in senior high school and eligible to work.

          This just gets worse and worse.
          Dont apologise to me mate. Try your poor son

          • blitzzbargain on 13/09/2023 - 07:18
            -4

            @ChatCPT: Hey there, I've mentioned several times that my son is perfectly fine. I'm not sure why you didn't read the story properly and made so many assumptions as if you knew everything. Hmmm…

        • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2023 - 02:13
          +2

          Op enough about your son. Lets talk about you.

          • What are YOUR achievements.
          • When did YOU last get a promotion, and how many times in your career have you gotten one.
          • How big is YOUR professional network.
          • Are you at the peak of your career or some sort of multi millionaire yourself? If not why? Especially considering your standards are so high for your own 8th grader son. Especially considering the amount of other millionaires in this country… many of whom didn't even excel in academics this much. Parents love comparing their kids to others, how about comparing yourself to real world successful people. Why have you not achieved enough success to take off pressure from your kids so they don't have to overwork themselves, like other successful people have.
          • Do YOU have significant academic achievements that has allowed you to live a comfortable and financially secure life.
          • Would you consider yourself successful or are you just unhappy and living through your kid?
          • Most successful people don't care this much about their kids' academics and don't have the time to shadow over their every academic decision.. What is causing you to behave this way?
          • Why did you have a kid to begin with? Are you expecting your son to support you after retirement financially and this is why you're obsessed with his performance?
          • Are you copying your own parents' behaviour?

          There are a lot of questions here about yourself which I'm assuming you're not even willing to answer, even in your own head, while complaining about your son's 'dissatisfying performance' to the world. (And yes, as many people have already said, everything in your replies so far indicates you are complaining and dissatisfied, as much as you don't want to admit it)

          • ChatCPT on 13/09/2023 - 09:18
            +2

            @[Deactivated]: BINGO! watch OP dodge these questions

          • ttt888 on 13/09/2023 - 13:12

            @[Deactivated]: Reply to majority of your questions is easy… For typical Asian and Indian.
            We wish our kids to do better than the parents before…

            • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2023 - 13:22
              +1

              @ttt888: Didn't really answer the main questions. What has OP achieved, both academically and in his career. If it's not substantial why is his son's performance under such scrutiny while he lived a mediocre life. Majority of truely successful Asian and Indian parents don't do this. I've been around them, they don't care if their kid gets a B, A, A+…etc. It's just the ones who lived average lives and didn't achieve much themselves. They were conditionally loved by their parents and are repeating the behaviour with their own kids. You look at their report cards and their performance was sub-par at most… . They mess their kids up and live vicariously though their achievements. Many parents, irrespective of background, are able to make sure their kids have better lives without adding all this unnecessary stress.

          • Sammyboy on 13/09/2023 - 13:18

            @[Deactivated]: Different culture (country) different ways of thinking. Just because you think one way doesnst mean the other way of thinking is wrong.

            • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2023 - 13:27
              +1

              @Sammyboy: Op is not in his home country. You adapt to the country you are living in. People that spend their whole lives obsessed with academics don't do well in this country professionally compared to well rounded people that lead more balanced/low-stress lives. I say this as someone who as sat alongside several technical interviews watching candidates like this get rejected. No one want's people like this on teams unless they are a last option in a field with severe labour shortages and poor working conditions. Other people have observed and said the same here. If Op is not willing to put his son's happiness in front of tradition and his own pride, he should at least do some research and speak with actual professionals/career guides if his end goal is his son's success. Not take advice from bargain websites or 'members of his own community' that make this an argument about tradition.

              • Sammyboy on 13/09/2023 - 14:19

                @[Deactivated]: So what you are saying is you should give up your cultural identity and change to the country you are living in. Whilst I strongly believe in learning the language of the country you are living in, religion and other cultural identities shouldnt be changed. Asian countries push academics over sports, western countries push sport over academics. What I find hypocritcal is when parents put their kids in multiple teams such as footy and soccer. So the kid will play in school team, then the local team then a rep or state team. So 3 different team trainings a week each at least 2 trainings, so 6 trainings and 3 matches a week. But when that happens everyone pats the parents and kids on the back saying well done thats awesome. There's immense pressure the kid puts on themselves and from the parents to make an AFL team. I've seen multiple kids burn out and end up party animals once they finish school and never look at the sport again. However if its academics and the kid goes to multiple tutoring and studies a lot, Australians tend to look down on it. What if that kids actually enjoys to read and study, just like some kids enjoy sport only, some enjoy music only. Its so hypocritcal. If its sport its fine to put pressure on the kid but academics is a big no no. But IMO, the original post was a little unusual and seemed like they were searching for consolation….

                • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2023 - 14:43
                  +1

                  @Sammyboy: This is an odd comparison. You are taking the extremes of a sporting pathway and using that to justify an extreme academic pathway.
                  When I say adapt I mean look at successful professionals in the country you're in. The end goal of all of this is for your kid to have a successful career in their field of choice(even if it's a prestigious field). Overall do other, already established successful professionals have to meet such strict academic requirements and go to these specialised schools here? The answer is no. This is a requirement for professionals in asian/indian/similar countries where there is an oversupply of people. Thats why people migrate from these countries to escape that lifestyle and get better opportunities. What is the point of moving here and engraining that mentality into your kids when there is no need?

                  There are already several students and professionals chiming in here saying it doesn't matter as much and rarely gives you much of an advantage in your career. In fact the negative traits this engrains into people along with lack of social skills puts them at a disadvantage. Again, I say this as someone who has been involved in interview processes where people solely focusing on academics are usually rejected for lack of functional soft skills, which many times are seen as more important in this country, even in highly professional/STEM roles. Workplaces would rather have someone that can gel well with a team, communicate effectively and be somewhat competent in their job. For the most part they don't care what school you went to or your academic scores. The candidate that is more balanced or leaning towards better soft skills will be picked over a high academic achiever… almost always in this country. These are also the people who are picked for promotions here.

                  The parenting style you speak of has little to do with cultural identity and is more mentality from parents who are unhappy with their own careers or achievements(Ask these parents if they are happy with their own lives… a lot of times the answer is no). A lot of western parents push their kids like this too. Again, most successful Asian, Indian, western…etc parents don't do this. Their kids are more well rounded and have less stress and personality deficiencies than the unsuccessful parents pushing their kids to these extremes. This is not a new concept. There are many parenting/psychology books from professionals confirming this (even in Asian/Indian countries). These self help books and programs are extremely popular these days… who do you think is buying them? It's individuals who went through this type of parenting looking to undo the damage as adults. Put you excuses of tradition aside and read a few. The end result is more important (ie. a successful, happy child)

          • congo on 14/09/2023 - 09:43

            @[Deactivated]: Younger generations have more privileged and somewhat more opportunities than the first generations.
            First generations often arrived here with very little in their pockets, and they have to overcome the language, culture, social and education barriers.
            They often have to work two jobs to make ends meet.

            You are not comparing apples to apples.
            Your reasoning is flawed.

            • [Deactivated] on 14/09/2023 - 11:25

              @congo: What does that have to do with this discussion? If anything you're just agreeing with people who say you don't have to push your kid this hard using parenting techniques from your home country after moving here because your kids already have better opportunities due to these advantages you mention. If anything, using these parenting techniques and making sure they keep their heads in their books 99% of the time just takes away many of these advantages from being more socially assimilated than the immigrant parent.
              Perhaps read what you're replying to instead of jumping to argue with and insult people because you think it makes you look clever. This is childish behaviour.

              That's the problem with you and OP. You are making this a "My generation/way of parenting/culture is better than yours" type of pride thing instead of putting the needs of your kid first and opening your eyes/seeing what other successful people are doing in the country you're living in.

              • congo on 14/09/2023 - 11:37

                @[Deactivated]: You are asking the Op to compare his achievements with his son.
                I am saying that reasoning is flawed because of different circumstances, different generations.
                What makes this statement "childish"?

                I am NOT saying one way is better than another, you need a balance. You can lean towards one way or the other depending on the kid.
                I am saying you need to understand both side of the coin and it's not about being right or wrong, but different kids are suited for different strategies.

                I am not insulting you, just stating the flaw in your comparison.
                What does the Op's achievements have anything to do with how much education his son gets?
                If the Op has no achievements, does he stop his son from studying and doing the test even though his son wants to?
                If the Op has many achievements and is very successful, does it make any difference?

                I am trying to understand your arguments, but it makes no sense.

                • [Deactivated] on 14/09/2023 - 12:24
                  +1

                  @congo:

                  You are asking the Op to compare his achievements with his son.

                  Again, try reading before replying. I asked OP to compare his achievements to his peers, not his own son who is still in school. There are many other immigrants that came here with nothing and are millionaires now or had academic excellence. Many of them don't care about perfect grades from their kids. The very fact that they are successful opens up a lot of doors and the kid can be more successful than them with a tiny bit of hard work than ingenuity in this country.

                  Why does his son have to outshine his peers while OP is potentially mediocre among his own peers? Especially if it doesn't give him a significant advantage when he's in the real world/job market here. I'm happy to be proven wrong in my assessment of OP's achievements however he keeps dodging questions like these from others suggesting this is true. He has unfulfilled dreams of his own that he didn't work towards like other successful immigrants. Now he is living vicariously though his son's behaviour.

                  Many immigrants who come here and 'settle' with becoming a cog in someone's wheel their whole lives fall into this flawed mentality. They choose security over success, even if it means working a shitty job and long hours with no promotions or acknowledgement. The successful ones don't do this and make sure their kids don't do the same by turning into bookworms. This is what I've observed from speaking with many people and is a known phenomenon. Many people here are saying the same and there are actual books written on this matter. Stomping your feet and arguing won't change that fact. If anything, you jumping to his defence and putting words in my mouth suggests you fall in the same boat.

                  • congo on 14/09/2023 - 12:34

                    @[Deactivated]:

                    There are many other immigrants that came here with nothing and are millionaires now or had academic excellence. Many of them don't care about perfect grades.

                    Yes that is true. Grades are not everything, but grades does help a little.

                    Why does his son have to outshine his peers

                    He doesn't. The fact he shows he wants to learn then as parents you have to foster and encourage it. Provide a good platform for him.

                    He has unfulfilled dreams of his own that he didn't work towards like other successful immigrants. Now he is living vicariously though his son's behaviour.

                    I don't understand what facts you used to come up with this conclusion. It's a bias assumption, may or may not be true.
                    But there are many opinions here stating that the Op is "abusive parent" because he encourages his kid to study for the selective test (which his son wants to), which doesn't sit right.

                    Stomping your feet and arguing won't change that fact.

                    What facts? "he is living vicariously though his son's behaviour" isn't fact.
                    I am not stomping my feet btw :-)

                    • [Deactivated] on 14/09/2023 - 12:40
                      +1

                      @congo: There are 7 pages on this thread now. Op's responses and his reaction to his son's results speaks volumes and falls in line with patterns from individuals with unfulfilled hopes and dreams who live through their kids.

                      Again, this is nothing new or groundbreaking. At the end of the day, the research and advice of countless published authors and trained professional psychologists on this matter who confirm the same, are worth more than 'congo from ozbargain'. Lets leave it at that because we are not going to come to an agreement.

        • congo on 13/09/2023 - 20:30
          -2

          I don't know why @ChatCPT has send so many attacks to you.
          But I suspect he has "other" issues…

          • ChatCPT on 14/09/2023 - 10:47
            +1

            @congo: probably another abusive parent.
            And no I had a brilliant childhood so proves you know jack all

            • congo on 14/09/2023 - 11:40
              -2

              @ChatCPT:

              brilliant childhood

              Your other comments suggest otherwise …

              probably another abusive parent.

              No, I am on the other end of the spectrum than the Op. Sadly I spend too many hours at work… but I understand where the Op is coming from.

              I am NOT saying one way is better than another, you need a balance. You can lean towards one way or the other depending on the kid.
              I am saying you need to understand both side of the coin and it's not about being right or wrong, but different kids are suited for different strategies.

              The problem with you, is that you are very adamant that your style is "right" and the Op's is "wrong". That is why you call him "abusive" or worst.
              That is very misleading, every child is different, and one approach isn't better than the other.

              But if you don't understand this basic concept, then good luck to you.

              • ChatCPT on 14/09/2023 - 14:32

                @congo:

                No, I am on the other end of the spectrum

                Great, so you're also another unhealthy parent
                Good luck to you and your family indeed!

                • congo on 14/09/2023 - 14:44

                  @ChatCPT: Nah he in a good school and has a great teacher!!
                  So I leave most of the teachings to the school, not that I can help much.

                  My point is you shouldn't go around calling random parents "abusive" "unhealthy" parents.
                  That is just wrong.

                  • ChatCPT on 14/09/2023 - 14:58

                    @congo: whatever helps you sleep… dont waste my time though

                    • congo on 14/09/2023 - 15:01
                      -1

                      @ChatCPT: What helps me sleep? You dont wan't to know :)
                      I've got day off today, so plenty of time …you are in luck !

                    • congo on 14/09/2023 - 16:08
                      -2

                      @ChatCPT: Do you have any kids yourself?
                      What year are they in?

                      If they have the desire to what to study hard and prepare themselves for the Selective test, will you support them?
                      Or do you consider this support to be "abusive" and "unhealthy"?

    • herbertg21 on 12/09/2023 - 22:29
      +1

      Honestly your kid is going to end up with some sort of complex at this rate. Literally needs to wake up and smell the roses and not take life so seriously. His a teenager, let him be free to make mistakes and muck around a bit whilst the consequences are minor to get it out of their system.

  • furyou on 11/09/2023 - 22:58
    +1

    "He performed exceptionally well on his mock-up exams, so we were quite confident that he would succeed. "

    based on what - tuition centers? Were these inaccurate in the end? Did the tuition centers pump and dump?
    Does that mean everyone else in the school failed (since he's A+)

    Did you get 3 choices, and choose too high?

    The Selective Entry Exam is supposed to be "not study-able" so maybe they succeeded in that way? Apart from that there's really not much to learn from it, there are people who study and don't get in and there are people who never studied and get in.

    Also learning from a setback this early might actually be a blessing. Much easier to get up from this than in Y12, or uni, or later.

  • MetaLaugher on 12/09/2023 - 00:22
    +1

    Selective schools are as good as the kids in them. Long term, your kid can try to apply each year to gain entry - right up until year 12 if I remember right.

    You've said you're not pushing him and I'll take your word, but the mounting expectations of parents can be suffocating and genuinely affect a child's mood and performance in a negative direction. Don't call this a setback, it's not going to help a child who already tried hard and knows they didn't meet your expectations.

    I also think tutor colleges were at best only mildly helpful to most of the enrolled kids in my year when I went through a selective school. So much burn out from doing an extra couple of hours per day on top of school and assignments. So many issues with doing self-motivated studying or learning techniques when the content is shoved at you. Many of the kids who did well in my year, and thus the state, just had strong studying behaviours and techniques and didn't have school work be an all-consuming part of their life.

  • rave75 on 12/09/2023 - 01:10
    +3

    Op needs to understand that sometimes hard work doesn't equal to good results.

    • 10101010101 on 12/09/2023 - 08:37

      Absolutely. That's real life and happens in my job. Life is a team sport, surround yourself with successful people and help contribute to yours and their joint success.

  • frostman on 12/09/2023 - 10:16
    +2

    Waa waa my kid didn't make it to Selective School!
    Waa.. what do I do now? shall I punish him with 500 hours of piano lessons?
    The world has ended now and he's destined to failure, please help, he needs to be a Doctor.

    • aussie bargain on 12/09/2023 - 11:59
      +1

      😂

    • 10101010101 on 12/09/2023 - 13:18
      +3

      Pfft doctor is so lowly. Certainly a surgeon and idealy a brain surgeon but others will do

  • dowhatuwant2 on 12/09/2023 - 11:40

    Must suck having a dumb kid, maybe focus on setting up a trust for them since they'll never be able to have a good life on their own.

    • Muzeeb on 12/09/2023 - 11:54

      I don't think that is happening. OP (if I recall) can't afford a private school let alone creating a trust for their future.

    • mandelbrot on 12/09/2023 - 11:56

      Do both. Support your intelligent hardworking kids, plus help set them up for the future.

    • dragonfly090 on 12/09/2023 - 17:29

      kids are not dumb, limited by opportunities provided by parents. Just the sheer magnitude of attempting the exam itself makes the kid well ahead of others

      • dowhatuwant2 on 13/09/2023 - 09:16

        whoosh

      • Davo1111 on 13/09/2023 - 17:06

        he was being sarcastic. His point was that failing the exam doesnt mean you're a complete write-off.

    • Davo1111 on 13/09/2023 - 13:33

      I think your comment is going to be misinterpreted by some as they wont understand the sarcasm.

  • xdigger on 12/09/2023 - 11:41
    +3

    I always tell my mates kids that the trades are the easiest way to make money in Australia. Minimal exams, low HECS debt plus cash jobs on the go. The whole tax system is geared towards helping tradies prosper, from cashies to sky high property prices, tax deductible utes, etc.

    • R4 on 12/09/2023 - 16:18
      +1

      You don't even need to work for yourself - right now, I know of diesel mechanics who have a few years experience and who FIFO to the Pilbara and earn $200k for what is essentially 6 months work. Guys with a lot of experience and who push it can get $300k+. No financially stress (getting paid by customers, cash flow etc) or management responsibilities. Controls and HV electricians too. It's a gravy train that will keep on rolling for a few more years yet.

  • aussie bargain on 12/09/2023 - 11:57

    @blitzzbargain

    Your son tried and failed, now he has to move on.
    I don't know what your intentions are putting this on a somewhat anonymous bargain discussion thread.

    There are probably other forums where your son and you can get more valuable insights and suggestions.

    From what you have written so far, I can see that you have very good intentions (we all want the best for our kids).

    As smart as you think he is, the facts show that he is not that smart.

    Learn from that and move on.
    There are always people smarter than us.
    That is life.

    If your son doesn't quite know or understand what he wants to do, then you need to help and guide him.

    You also need to guide and help him if he is feeling down due to his results being not good enough.

    There are way too many "tiger parenting approach" (both implicit and explicit) that put too much pressure on kids.

    These pressures are evident in Asian countries like Singapore and South Korea, but I can see that it can occur to Asian and Jewish communities here.

    I grew up with many kids like your son, where in the end they all turn out okay. Some are very successful now.

    I did pretty well in VCE (top 2%) with doing very little but I know what I am capable of and how the system works.

    What you probably need to reflect on is what you are trying to get (and what you are getting) from this conversation thread.

    Reflect deeply and hopefully you will come to a conclusion on:
    - What you learned; AND
    - What your son learned AND
    - What your family learned (assuming that there are others in your family unit)

    What others say are largely irrelevant as we are all couch commentators.

    One's educational results are nothing if you cannot and/or do not contribute to society.

    Being the best in studies is not for everyone.

    All the best to you and your son.

  • SpicyStew on 12/09/2023 - 12:24

    asians for sure

    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/iFBxUBF3NCI

  • quanticism on 12/09/2023 - 12:31

    I just read a few pages of Walter Isaacson's new biography on Elon and it's hard not to compare the levels of pressure experienced in childhood. Veldskool as described in the book seems insane to me. Dead children are just disparaged to be weak idiots. What are our adversities in comparison.

    • R4 on 12/09/2023 - 16:21

      I did veldskool when I was 15 and it wasn't much fun that's for sure. 2 years national service in the infantry (including a year on operations) wasn't a barrel of laughs either.

  • tempco on 12/09/2023 - 14:06
    +2

    Conditional love is a horrible way to raise a child - it'll mess them up for a long time. Good luck with it.

    • congo on 13/09/2023 - 20:32

      Where did you get "Conditional love" from?

  • bobolo on 12/09/2023 - 14:10
    +1

    Side rant: If I look back to my high school days, the ones that were academically smart were glorified at the time but thats where it kind of stopped. They mostly got commerce/law/accounting degrees, and mostly became some senior middle management cog at a multinational… living pretty dull lives and still struggling financially.

    The ones that did bad in high school ended up in 2 extremes - struggling through life, or wildly successful business owners. It comes down to whether an individual finds their true calling and forges their own path. No amount of education can teach that.

    In Australia, academics has almost nothing to do with career/financial success. Its actually your ability to communicate with individuals at all levels and all social classes, and be bold/motivated/hard working enough to start your own business. Social skills are much more important.

    As a business owner, I couldn't care less about qualifications when hiring - even if I'm hiring for a technical role. If they have the personality of an ironboard and/or don't have real world experience - I'm simply not interested. If they don't have experience that's fine as well - as long as they are eager to learn and have the personality to match.

    If you think it hurts now to deal with your son not being accepted into selective school, trust me when I say this, it will really hurt when nobody wants to give your academcially successful son a job you think he "deserves".

  • [Deactivated] on 12/09/2023 - 16:20

    I do care about qualification when I need to pick up 5 best candidates for the next round out of some hundreds application.
    Then I have tradie friends who make more money than me so not sure it was worth sacrifice all the childhood for some academic excellece.
    (I hardly have any good childhood memory. It was stressful and depressing most of the time.)

    Remember kid will be under your care only for some time and how the relationship between unfold after then mostly up to the first part.

    • congo on 13/09/2023 - 20:34

      "tradie friends" make more money than you? Doesn't sound right.

      • [Deactivated] on 13/09/2023 - 21:16

        Quite a few people mentioned about (take easy & not try studying die hard then) become a tradie is better life in this thread for the same reason.

        One can jump to USA if that doesn't sound fair ;)

        • congo on 13/09/2023 - 23:10

          I didn't say "doesn't sound fair", I said "doesn't sound right".
          Doctors, lawyers, dentist, consultants earn more than tradies. If people are saying tradies earn more, they are speaking non-sense.

          • [Deactivated] on 14/09/2023 - 01:41

            @congo: Lol i know docs and dentists can't make 300k and tradies who does. It's case by case for sure but latter is a lot easier than former in terms of competition they need to go through.

            • congo on 14/09/2023 - 07:57

              @[Deactivated]: I know doctors and dentists make well over 300K.
              I also know a lot of tradies who can barely pay their rents. Are you referring to tradies or builders?

              Data:
              https://au.indeed.com/career-advice/pay-salary/average-salar…
              https://au.talent.com/salary

              • [Deactivated] on 14/09/2023 - 08:38

                @congo: The generic salary data showing up there isn't quite right. Just look at your own industry and see how accurate it is. (Reckon data is coming from ATO average or job ad?)

                If you wanna look at how much average docs making, you can look up state salary data for HMO as it's actually public.

                In short, for health sector that level of income means high end career after yet another competition or being a practice owner.

                Tradie 'employees' won't make that much for sure but it's a lot easier them to become a sole trader.

                I do have close friends and family members working in both career paths.

                Professionals start high at the beginning but it won't go up without extra competition so easily and they start late.

                Tradies start low and early then go up relatively fast and easy.

                If you're seeing tradie friends barely paying rent, it's just mean they're early in their career. I'm seeing tradie friends buying $1m+ house after some 15 years and they started from 17 or so.

                If you still can't believe then look around ozb posts and comments. There are reasons why people recommend tradie career path.

                • congo on 14/09/2023 - 09:58

                  @[Deactivated]: I have to ask around, not sure. This is a bargain site, so the people here would be learning more towards one side than the other.

                  I know that several doctor friends are financially better off (with multiple large investments that I can only dream off) than my tradies friends (who are still renting).

                • congo on 14/09/2023 - 19:57

                  @[Deactivated]: Yes data from ATO. Data from the source is preferred, anecdotal evidence isn't real evidence.

                  https://www.ato.gov.au/About-ATO/Research-and-statistics/In-…

                  If these "tradies" are earning $300K+ then their average pay should be a lot higher than the ATO stat's.
                  They are either not declaring the correct amount of taxable income or ….

                  Either way, there is nothing wrong with becoming a doctor and saving lives.
                  If a child want to study hard to become a doctor, support him/her, rather than the non-sense advice given here.

  • TheRealCher on 12/09/2023 - 16:31

    These tests don't measure your worth, or your son's academic or intellectual potential, capacity or ability in the long term. They just measure his capability at the time and even then, it's the capability to perform on a set of questions within a specific period.
    What went wrong? Maybe nothing…the capacity and potential are still there.
    What can go wrong? Depends on both of your reactions. Depends on what you and he value.
    Long term … there are many ways up mt fuji, if that's the end goal, but it's also good to be able to appreciate the view from afar.
    Sorry to be obtuse.

  • CocaKoala on 12/09/2023 - 16:32
    +1

    However, there are a small number of comments that have resorted to personal attacks on my son (e.g., not good enough, etc.).

    What part of that is a personal attack? We all have our strengths and weaknesses, not everyone could be good in everything. Your son failed an exam that has a very high bar. One could only conclude that he is not good enough to pass that exam. I am perplexed that you think this being pointed out is a personal attack.

    Nobody here says that your son is not good, just that he's not good enough to get through that specific exam. But you seem to be living in denial and do not want to hear this. I just hope that your son is OK.

    There are a million ways to make it in life, and given your son's academic performance otherwise, I am pretty sure that he will find his way. Just don't pressurise him down one specific road instead - it's absolutely shortsighted and ridiculous!

    • syousef on 13/09/2023 - 07:05

      Failing an exam only means his son didn't do well on the day.

      • CocaKoala on 13/09/2023 - 08:38

        The exam happens on that day though, so no point in "doing well" on another day when nobody is assessing the work.

        • syousef on 13/09/2023 - 11:05
          +1

          That's the point, dude. Anyone can have a bad day. "Not good enough" on the day doesn't mean "not good enough" ever. Writing off kids is a destructive and wasteful thing to do, not to mention cruel and unintelligent.

          • CocaKoala on 13/09/2023 - 14:00

            @syousef:

            That's the point, dude. Anyone can have a bad day.

            Sure, so the kid just had a bad day in your opinion? Just like all the other tens of thousands of kids who gave the exam alongside?

            doesn't mean "not good enough" ever.

            Your strawman argument makes no sense because nobody here said that he's "not good enough ever". People are talking exclusively about this specific exam and that gets cleared by a tiny percentage. It's no easy feat and it's very different from academic exams. Nothing wrong with being not good enough to clear an exam that only a handful cleared in a state full of kids. You are delusional if you thought this is because of all those children having a bad day.

            Besides, op also seems like a toxic parent who wants to know "what went wrong" as if this wasn't supposed to happen at all. Thousands of kids don't make this exam, absolutely nothing wrong with that. The child seems to be doing great in school, so he will find his own way and will do well as long as the parent stops pressurising him unnecessarily.

            • syousef on 14/09/2023 - 09:46

              @CocaKoala:

              Sure, so the kid just had a bad day in your opinion? Just like all the other tens of thousands of kids who gave the exam alongside?

              I don't know the kid. Do you? Are you saying he can't have had a bad day? Or do you think " all the other tens of thousands of kids who gave the exam alongside" all performed at peak performance? None were sick or choked? Really?

              That's Epic! Do you realize if you can replicate this in the workforce you'll have companies beating down your door to get all their workers working at 100% peak efficiency on demand? You're gonna make a killing dude.
              ^^ So there's some actual reductio ad absurdum since you're going to falsely accuse me of logical fallacies. Might as well do the crime. You're not debating this honestly and you're wasting my time.

              • CocaKoala on 14/09/2023 - 09:52

                @syousef: R U OK?

                Or do you think

                if you can replicate this in

                I think I've had enough strawman and whataboutism - you know, the things that your "argument" is mainly based on.

                Only children who pass the exam will make it to the next step, regardless of what you feel about this situation, or OP thinks about his child. Regardless of how many children you thought were sick, upset, or whatever else you want to imagine.

                • syousef on 18/09/2023 - 10:58

                  @CocaKoala:

                  I think I've had enough strawman and whataboutism - you know, the things that your "argument" is mainly based on.

                  All I'm reading is that you don't to deal with valid arguments so you're going to childishly label and dismiss them. The irony of pointing to a logical fallacy you are yourself demonstrating did make me smirk though so thank you for that.

                  You seem to think children being "sick, upset, or whatever else" is a hypothetical. Do you have zero experience with children? That's a genuine question. You seem to have no practical experience with them. To call a child not performing to potential on a given day "strawman whataboutism" betrays your lack of imagination too.

                  As you can see I've placed a really high priority on responding to you. Whatever snark you inevitably feel compelled to write, I'll respond if I feel like it in a few days.

                  By the way while I find the "R U Ok" thing slightly misguided, I think your misuse of to add cheap snark here is abhorrent.

                  • CocaKoala on 18/09/2023 - 12:26

                    @syousef: Going by your ridiculous argument, anyone who didn't pass a driving exam was just not driving well on that day. A politician losing an election could mean that a few people decided not to vote in their favour on just that day. All but one F1 driver were doing not good enough just on that one day. Kasparov was the world classical chess champion for 7 years not because he was simply the best then, but rather only because everyone else was not doing well enough just on the day of the games, for seven consecutive years. I don't know if you could see how silly your argument is, or your pathetic attempts to derail the discussion with your gaslighting is.

                    Sadly for you the world does not work that way - if someone fails an exam, they're just not good enough to pass it regardless of the purported reasons behind it, imaginary or not. If they were sick (which is an extremely weak strawman that you created), then they should get better and redo the exam when they're good enough to pass it. I am not sure how much more simpler could I make this for you.

                    By the way while I find the "R U Ok" thing slightly misguided, I think your misuse of to add cheap snark here is abhorrent.

                    Given that your "logic" has been uniquely constructed based on a weird combination of whataboutism and strawman, it wasn't misguided at all, regardless of what you personally think about it. I am going to resign here so it shall just be you wallowing in your own concept of what logic means.

                    • syousef on 18/09/2023 - 19:26

                      @CocaKoala:

                      Going by your ridiculous argument,

                      Way to open dude. You know if you need to get super aggressive and call a stranger's arguments "ridiculous" and "pathetic", you might actually want to get the argument they are making right. As it stands you've just made a fool of yourself with a combination of straw man, ridicutio ad absurdum and some of the weakest and easiest to counter arguments I have ever seen. You want to be careful throwing around words like gaslighting as well. No one's likely to sue you here but calling a stranger's actions something that intentionally attempts to make people question their sanity and recollection is not the smartest thing to do in a public forum….anyway let's begin on a tour of your attempt at logic, shall we?

                      anyone who didn't pass a driving exam was just not driving well on that day.

                      …which is why you get to retake the exam if you don't pass.

                      A politician losing an election could mean that a few people decided not to vote in their favour on just that day.

                      …and that politician can run a new campaign at the next election.

                      All but one F1 driver were doing not good enough just on that one day.

                      … which is why you don't just run one race in a championship.

                      Kasparov was the world classical chess champion for 7 years not because he was simply the best then, but rather only because everyone else was not doing well enough just on the day of the games

                      …and yet he did lose games and eventually people did better than him right. You can debate whether he was but there's no denying that just about any active competitive field continues to progress in ability as time goes on.

                      I don't know if you could see how silly your argument is, or your pathetic attempts to derail the discussion with your gaslighting is.

                      Well you might try actually countering the argument I made instead of setting up a silly strawman. At no point did I say the only possibility was that this kid had a bad day. I said I didn't know the kid and I couldn't rule that out. But hey apparently you can, and anyone who ever fails an exam should be discarded at a young age? Is that what you're saying?

                      Sadly for you the world does not work that way

                      Do you realize who utterly arrogant and prentious you're sounding. When you behave like that you lose people. Even those that might have sided with you won't want to be associated with your bile.

                      • if someone fails an exam, they're just not good enough to pass it regardless of the purported reasons behind it

                      Your inability to grasp that people do have bad days and that many exams can be retaken, and your willingness to discard all human beings - even a young child - is disturbing.

                      , imaginary or not. If they were sick (which is an extremely weak strawman that you created), then they should get better and redo the exam when they're good enough to pass it. I am not sure how much more simpler could I make this for you.

                      …and now you contradict yourself. FINALLY you admit that there might be some small possibility that someone could be ill and fail an exam. But you think this is a far fetched thing. I want to live in your world where children rarely get sick….but I digress. Yes some exams can be retaken. The question is whether or not it can be retaken in a timely manner. If this child is already in the last 3 or 4 years of his schooling it might not be worth it.

                      But the point is that you have conceded what I am saying is possible, after a lot of snark and failed logic. The only argument I can then make with you is how likely the child is to have bombed an exam. Apparently you have never done badly on an exam due to nerves,.illness or whatever, or you've blocked it out. If anyone is "gaslighting" it is you because after all that silly abuse you conceded my point, no matter how much you minimized it. So you haven't got a leg to stand on with that abuse.

                      If you're going to reply, do keep it civil, and try to do better with the logic. It isn't me that's looking bad here dude.

  • ogdenvilleoutlet on 12/09/2023 - 17:36

    Yeah exams like that aren't so much a measure of intelligence, just answers to set topic based information. Consider other ways of measuring your son's "success" and don't forget to acknowledge how your son is feeling. Not only would he feel the failure aspect, but also the complexity of your parent/child relationship, how you express love, acceptance, and measurements of 'success'. Wild you be pleased if your son was accepted to the selective school with excellent marks, but developed long-term feelings of inadequacy? That academia is the way to obtain your parents love and acceptance? Your kid is in his very formative stages and you should think of wider aspects of development than just exam results

    • congo on 13/09/2023 - 20:35

      The exams test your literacy and numeracy skills, which you spend most of your childhood learning.

  • deneb on 12/09/2023 - 18:04

    Doesn't mean much, getting into Melbourne high doesn't mean your kid is gonna get 95+ by default.

    You as a parent could rent or buy into school zone of a typical strong achieving public schools like Balwyn and Glen Waverly.

    the teachers aren't miles better, just means parents in these suburb paid more for tutoring and sacrifice the kids interest to milk those scale up subjects.

    Back in the days I was tutored everything before school syllabus even got there. School was really just the to consolidate what the tutor taught weeks ago.

    Still doesn't mean much. All that for a ticket into uni… The spesh maths and method are complete blur after 15 years.

    To be honest, you can fail entry test, atar, and uni, and can still make an okay living.

  • spixder on 12/09/2023 - 18:14

    Just means that your son is not mentally gifted, like 99% of the pop, nothing wrong with that. The most gifted kid back in my days wagged school, smoke pot and aced every test that he penned.

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