My Son Was Not Successful in the Selective Entry Exam - What Can We Learn from This?

Hi All,

Initially, I was uncertain about whether I should write this post (as it might be controversial), but this is the only place where I can seek input from this wonderful community.
This discussion is merely to gauge what lessons were learned as retrospectives and share with others.

Background:
My son participated in this year's Victoria Selective School exam (Exam for Year 9). He had been diligently preparing for the past 9-10 months leading up to the exam, attending multiple tuition sessions, both at large, well-established tuition centers and private ones. Additionally, he devoted himself to studying beyond his school curriculum for about 2 months before the exam, completing numerous practice test papers. While the cost of these tuition sessions was substantial, I didn't mind spending the money on his education as long as it benefited him.

I want to clarify that I encouraged him to take the exam, but he was willing to do so of his own accord.
He had the potential to succeed, as he is considered an A+ student in his current school.

The results:
He performed exceptionally well on his mock-up exams, so we were quite confident that he would succeed. He performed very well in Reading, Mathematical Reasoning, and Quantitative Reasoning, categorising them as Top and Above Average, However, the actual results were very disappointing especially on the writing and verbal reasoning, well below expectations. He told me that he had the best sleep and was able to concentrate during the exam.

I am proud of what he has done, but I want to learn from this setback.
It is a very challenging experience.
How do I take this as a lesson learned? What went wrong? I doubt the department will revisit this case as it has been decided.

All suggestions are welcome.
Thank you for all the comments! Most of the comments are very supportive, encouraging, and enlightening. Please continue to do so.
I hope some of you will find this thread useful.
However, there are a small number of comments that have resorted to personal attacks on my son (e.g., not good enough, etc.). These comments do not reflect the Ozbargain community and the broader principles of humanity.

Comments

            • -2

              @spurf: No.
              On average kids in Selective school performs higher than non-Selective schools.
              True every kid is different and it's really up to them and their grit.

              But, as parents, you want to give them the best possible advantage. Selective schools are an advantage. Private schools are an advantage (if you can afford it).
              Some kids may not make the most of the advantage, but it's still an advantage.

              "zero evidence" is completely incorrect.
              There is evidence, but it is not released.

              • +1

                @congo:

                On average kids in Selective school performs higher than non-Selective schools.

                Because they kick out kids that wouldn’t keep their average high.

                • @jjjaar: Not only that, but also the tactics involved too. I know for example the entire Literature cohort at Macrob typically all get above raw 40 for their final VCE results, purely because the school reports to VCAA that they are studying 4 books throughout the year (which is the mandated minimum), when in actuality, they only study 2 books for the entire year (because the final exam only tests you on 2), which is just an insane advantage that no amount of "giftedness" or "hard work" is ever going to overcome (this was at least, back in my time).

                • @jjjaar: No, they perform better because of the scaling process.
                  Scaling is the best tool that we have, but it isn't 100% accurate or 100% fair.

          • @blitzzbargain: But clearly he’s not a like-minded peer academically if he didn’t get in. Just accept that your child isn’t special and help him do the best he can in life in all ways with what he has.

  • -1

    Sounds like they crumbled under the pressure of the exam. Been there done that. It's terrible the way it's designed. You need to regurgitate everything you have learnt in 6-12m within a 2–3-hour block.

    They would need to do a bridging course so something undergrad and get his CWA up and then can jump into medicine.

    • Do you have any experience with these exams?

      I've done just been through a whole load of the NSW ones and there is zero regugitarion. It's all heuristics and associated tactics for handling time pressure. My kid found some of the work really enjoyable.

      There is nothing to memorise though.

      • I haven't sat these ones specifically. But from the website, it sounds like a watered-down GAMSAT. Which I have done.

        1. Reasoning in Reading, Mathematics

        2. General Ability – Verbal, Quantitative and Writing

        • +1

          I had a quick look at GAMSAT, which bears a fair bit of similarity to the GMAT and that was terribly boring to study for.

          The selective school exams were remarkably enjoyable (for both me and the kid) in comparison. Definitely less required in the way of 'remembering lots of facts' because they're just primary school kids.

  • +5

    He can always do a trade if likes hands on things. Probably be better off financially, a smart organised tradie can earn a lot of money. It's served me well.

    • +2

      This is really underrated. A tradie with a good head on thier shoulders can do much better financially than most high level jobs. Especially once they start running thier own business.

      Unfortunately though, a lot of parents like op wont see this as respectable and the kids will just be pushed to get some kind of degree to just be another office worker in some multinational

    • I always tell my mates kids that the trades are the easiest way to make money in Australia. Minimal HECS debt plus cash jobs on the go. The whole tax system is geared towards helping tradies prosper, from cashies to sky high property prices, tax deductible utes, etc. Either trades or Defence/Reserves is pretty cushy in tradionally taking up a big part of the Federal Budget too.

  • +4

    painful experience

    What you can learn from this is to get some reality into your and your child's life.

    Watch this doc: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c…

    Not everyone can go to uni, be a brain surgeon, etc. That doesn't mean you do nothing because it didn't meet your expectations.

    Maybe your child wants to pursue a blue collared career when he finishes school, and they might end up richer than their friends that went to uni.

  • If your child has the ability and motivation, they will do well at any school so long as the school has the skills and resources to support them.

    • I don't doubt his motivation; it's clearly present. However, I'm uncertain whether the environment fully supports it, this message below says it all
      https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/14268452/redir

      • +1

        Well in that case you probably also failed as a parent. You should have worked harder so you could send your child to the highest rank scools to get them the best outcome. Next time maybe both you and your child should work a little bit harder and you wont be having this issue.

      • If your son is aware of the factors he needs to succeed, then provide those for him. Extracurriculars are available outside of school.. sure it may mean you driving him around an extra couple of hours a week and a few hundred a semester - that's a choice you need to make. If he needs friends who are more academically inclined, help him maintain a friend network through external classes or keeping up with people from primary.. it may mean logistical challenges and a bit more effort but its about keeping an eye on the prize. Or ultimately he may discover he doesn't need any of these to be happy - a good general financial education, wanting to work hard to deliver a great outcome, having empathy for people's needs might mean he could pick up a trade and be running a multi million dollar business in 10 to 15 years.

        Finally, there are always private schools at a cost.

        Life is about choices and sacrifices, and its a continuous curve you can choose to add / change / cut anything along that path because the paths to success are many and varied. Selective >> Go8 Uni >> Top 1% Graduate Entry is not the only path to happiness.

  • +9

    Perhaps the immense pressure and weight of parents expectations had something to do with it? Just a wild guess.

  • +4

    Welcome to accepting reality. Your child will be fine and hopefully will have a better childhood due to this result. Rather than be stuck in this make or break mindset of academia.

  • +1

    I can understand your disappointment - your son studied so hard and you supported him with tutoring services, but the goal eluded you.

    Regardless of effort and investment, being accepted to a VIC selective school is incredibly difficult. Students preparing for this exam may have been doing so since year 7 and with a massive tutoring load (as an indirect example, to obtain a spot in a NSW selective school, one of my son's peers in year 6 attended 10 hours of tutoring classes per week (+10 hours of homework) since year 4.

    There are only 4 selective schools in Victoria, one of which is girls only. The competition would be incredibly fierce for one of the ~750 places your son would be eligible for. Each one of the ~3000 students (from what I could google up) would have studied just as hard to prepare, yet 2 out of 3 would miss out. Additionally, only 4% of a school's cohort could be accepted to selective - if your son's peers at school outperformed him, he would miss out on a spot even if his scores were higher than students from other schoools (https://www2.education.vic.gov.au/pal/specialism-schools-and…).

    So, to answer your question of what went wrong? Nothing went wrong, there simply aren't enough places by design.

    The 66% of students that missed out are not failures. Your son is not a failure.

    Are the students that succeed in life limited to those that went to selective school? Clearly not! Whatever goals your son has regarding his education or career are still very much achieveable if he maintains the effort he's putting in. He'll be more likely to succeed if you continue to give him the support and encouragement you're already providing, keep that up!

    • +3

      There are only 4 selective schools in Victoria, one of which is girls only. The competition would be incredibly fierce for one of the ~750 places your son would be eligible for. Each one of the ~3000 students (from what I could google up) would have studied just as hard to prepare, yet 2 out of 3 would miss out. Additionally, only 4% of a school's cohort could be accepted to selective - if your son's peers at school outperformed him, he would miss out on a spot even if his scores were higher than students from other schoools (https://www2.education.vic.gov.au/pal/specialism-schools-and…).

      That was eye opening. in NSW there are ~17, and another ~20 partially selective. And they start from Year 7 versus Year 9 in Victoria.

      • +2

        Yeah me too, with only 1,000 places they'd be the equivalent of the top 6 or 7 selective schools in NSW.

        • +3

          There's essentially no "lesson learned" for the OP unless it's to have realistic expectations.

          Just spitballing, but a candidate would have to be scoring top five percentile across all or most subjects to make it in.

  • +3

    Currently preparing my child for next year's exams (WA). I didn't go as far, just sitting down and doing mock tests with him on weekends and recently joining an online tuition class (once a week) as we feel that we've hit a plateau just doing mock tests.

    Have made it clear to him that we just wants to provide the resources and opportunity for him test himself during the exams. As long as he has given it a good go, that in itself is the learning experience and reward. A desired outcome that grants him entry to a nearby good school (we are just outside catchment) is a bonus.

    He is currently cruising through primary school and thinks life is going to remain this easy to the extent that he is getting arrogant.The preparations have actually brought him back down to earth, which is definitely another learning experience.

    • +5

      "He is currently cruising through primary school and thinks life is going to remain this easy"

      God forbid a primary school age kid thinks life is going to be easy.

      • +3

        It is an issue when he starts saying other kids are dumb for not understanding what he does.
        Or that he can just not complete "boring" school work because he rather play Minecraft.
        "The teacher will always give extensions anyway."

        • Lol well that’s a separate issue. Curious, did your child start schooling in another country?

  • +4

    Strange post. Does OP not understand the concept of uncertainty?

  • +4

    As someone who went to MHS and came from a lower ranked school (300-350) and a lower socio-economic background, the 4% school caps rule means students from a lower ranked school could potentially be selected above students who did better on the entrance exam but went to a school where there was large number of students "passing" the exam.

    If your son went to a school in say inner eastern Melbourne where a large number of the community enter their kids the selective schools, the competition is higher than say a school in the outer west. Out of the 6 students who entered MHS from my lower ranked school, 4 dropped out.

    In saying that, he could have done poorly because of exam pressure. Everyone is different, some people do better under pressure, some people do worse - even though he said he was able to concentrate, it might not be the case.

    I want to learn from this setback. It is a very painful experience. How do I take this as a lesson learned?

    Failure is a part of life, it's how resilient you are that determines where you'll be later in life. Teach grit and encourage a growth mindset in your son.
    Pure ability doesn't always result in success, you need hard work, drive and commitment. Preferably both ability and hard work.
    You'll always have a bell curve of "success" however you define it. From my MHS year level, I work with 2 neurologists and an anaethetist from MHS - but I also work with Cardiologist who graduated from my original lower ranked school.

    • -6

      Thank you for your comment.
      If you don't mind, could you let me know what will be the chances honestly if you hadn't gained entry to MHS and had stayed at the lower-ranked school, would you currently be in your current profession?

      • +5

        Your understanding is so short sighted. You yourself have what seems to be a great job, you have an accent, and you weren't born here.
        It's pretty ridiculous, get a grip.

      • +8

        OP, I went to a selective high school. It contributed nothing whatsoever to where I ended up in life and what I ended up being happy doing. I was expected by everyone to do very well, and did without having to work at it. I got to high school at 10, and university at 16. Then failed. At least that time round. Not because it was hard but because it required work, and I wasn't motivated to do that work because I was doing what I had been pushed to do because that's what other people thought I was capable of, not what I enjoyed doing. That's where you've got to be when your parents let go and you become an adult, and you have to be internally motivated. Heading in a direction that makes you want to go there.

        I had to start again, finding a new career direction. It was in a direction that disappointed my parents and that ended my relationship with them. But in the end I became the best anyone had seen at something that my teachers and parents who with the best of intentions chose my direction for me when I was young, but just damaged my life by that, couldn't have guessed it'd be what I'd be so good at, because it didn't exist back then.

      • +6

        I can answer this. I also went to MHS, got a 90+ ATAR and went to uni straight out of year 12. Studied commerce because thats what everyone else in my year did. Graduated but hated it, got mediocre results and no relevant job came out of that degree.

        It wasn't until a few years later I met someone who inspired me to do go back to uni and study something that I enjoyed. Went back to uni, graduated with good marks and am now working as a lawyer. I can categorically say going to MHS played very little part in where I am now professionally.

        I recommend you take a deep breath, move on and accept your kid wasn't good enough to get into a selective school. Don't blame him or yourself. Instead encourage him to do well in the school he is in now and support his decisions. If after some thought going to a selective school is something you and him still want to pursue, there's always options in year 10, 11 and 12 to get in.

      • +4

        Honestly it’s a very individual thing and that depends on your son. I’m an old boy as well, potentially older than some of the others here but appreciate where OP is coming from.

        Selectives have a higher bar and env focused on achieving, can it drive ppl higher? Yes. Does it burn out others? Yes. In terms of what you can learn, it seems like your son has a strong degree of self drive/motivation and if he can maintain that he will do well regardless likely. If he isn’t, then maybe you need to consider moving schools to somewhere that can help drive him?

        Personally I was pretty lazy as a student, I had a reasonable work ethic but I cruised pre-MHS as a stand out student, I did very little prep for the exam but also competition probably wasn’t as fierce for entry back then. Getting in, I learned in yr 9/10 it didn’t cut it. So for me, the env helped. My peer from the same outer west school was the opposite, he found it stifling and dropped out in yr 11. A girl who we pegged as getting in “for sure” (smart, hard worker) but didn’t, ended up doing very well out of yr12 staying in our old school

        Would I say MHS had everything to do with my current success? No, but it certainly had a decent contribution to it, helping to build habits and understanding being smart wasn’t really enough helped me personally.

        • ^ First decent comment.

      • If I hadn't been accepted to MHS, I still would have had enough ATAR to enroll in an engineering course at University of Melbourne. The difference would be that my choice of degree what influenced by the extracurricular activities I did while at MHS, so if I hadn't been accepted, my choice of degree likely would be different.

      • +2

        OP, I also went to a Vic state selective school. Way back when there were only two so you were literally only applying for one.

        I am concerned about some of the phrasing and wording you use and what you seem to think these schools are. The expectations you have of what they can achieve and their impact on education is unrealistic and tbh ridiculous. It is just a school. Unless your local school is a known problem school or severely under resourced, the resources, academic culture and subjects available won't be much different. Plus the curriculum will be the same for VCE. Any minor differences can be made up in other ways if that's what brings you peace, such as the tutoring you've already been having him do.

        You have said in previous posts that "statistics don't lie" as if that means your son would be guaranteed to score a high ATAR at a selective school and won't at another. Above, by asking what "chances" someone would have had if they didn't move to a selective school, you're implying that your own son no longer has a chance to achieve in school because he wasn't accepted. That's a horrible way to think of your child. I would take a hard look at yourself and why YOU think it's "painful".

        As arkie0 said, you can score highly on the entry test and still not receive a place due to the 3% rule, which impacts certain postcodes, schools and cultural demographics more than others. Not receiving a place in no way means that this is a setback.

        Keep in mind, kids from non-selective schools get Uni places. I received a full scholarship to Melbourne straight out of school, and I was the only one to do so from my school that year. Meaning all the other successful candidates were from… dun dun… non-selective schools!

        Finally, depending on where you live, getting into a selective school is a huge commitment for kids. I think people forget that it can make a school kid commute long distances every day, especially now if you get into the co-ed one on the opposite side of town. You lose time for extracurriculars and being a kid when you spend 3 hours commuting every day. It's also harder to see friends unless they're from your area, and because the zone is the whole state, often they won't be. Which means catching up on holidays and weekends will also involve long commutes.

    • +2

      As someone who went to MHS

      Did you Honour the work ?

  • +3

    Hard to say as it would have been a completely different life journey but I think I'd still in a similar profession and similar stage in career progression.

  • +6

    I don’t think something must be learned from every set back in life. But I want more from life than a ‘rise and grind’ mentality allows.

    Several of my kids got into NSW selective schools, but we weren’t very happy with the education my first daughter received at a selective school, so did not fight the others when they wanted to attend our local school with their friends.

    I found the selective school doesn’t prepare kids for life very well, just academic scores. Many of the other kids were from families that only valued academic scores, and the school responded to this preference by downplaying non-academic things.

    Even if you only consider the number of jobs given out to someone know from the sports club, or other aspect of life, it was very short sighted to treat schooling as a time to construct academic machines.

    Talking to these kids after their exams but before results were published was eye opening. They had often had bad times at school, were frequently anxious to the point of needing medication, and deeply afraid of disappointing parents.

    Nearly all did well, and got into courses their parents hoped. A year later a great many had switched courses or deferred uni. When exposed to the wider world they realised their parents sole focus on academics was naive.

    Our kids at normal schools encounter lots of varied people, experiences (music, sport, art, drama etc) and have had better times at school, though probably not marks as high.
    So it helps to be thoughtful in your choices.

  • -8

    Your son may not necessarily failed the exam as such.. but more likely, the students were already chosen, and the exam is just a matter of formality and for everything to look above board. I wouldnt stress too much over it. If your son is as studious as u say he is, and is willing to do so of his own accord, then he will success in his studies.

    • +8

      Ahhaah, what? How does the school 'already choose' from a pool of students it knows nothing about? The exam is run by the state, which allocates places based on standardised test scores. How, exactly, do you think they're pulling a fast one here? Love the unhelpful chirping from the stupid skeptical.

    • +4

      What's not formal or successful: your comment.

    • Yeah Dan rigged it all. He has super powers

    • lol it's not Miss Universe

    • Are you alluding favouritism towards higher-paying international students?

  • +4

    It is a very painful experience.

    Your son and yourself will be rightfully disappointed but smart kids will usually do well anywhere.

    My wife failed her NSW selective school exam. She then ended up being dux of her public school. Better yet, she didn't even have to attend class. She studied at home and literally turned up for her HSC exams. Got a UAI (pre-ATAR) above 99 and then proceeded to do well at university and have a very successful, highly paid career.

    How do I take this as a lesson learned? What went wrong? I doubt the department will revisit this case as it has been decided.

    Move on. Keep up his tuition sessions. It's worth the cost and it's ironically a great way for your kid to meet other kids outside of his school. My wife had extensive tutoring throughout high school. Not to make her smarter but that so she knew what to expect in her assignments and final exams and keep herself ahead of the rest of her cohort. When she attended university, she already knew a lot of people there because of her years of tutoring.

  • +5

    There are many kids with exceptional potential the problem is finding the right path. Some do well in school but are hopeless once they get to adulthood. Others hopeless at school but work do really well.

    My brother hopeless writer, spelling, grammer etc but now earning in the quarter million a year range.

    As long as your son has some personal ambition and work ethic he will do alright.

    He also has to be happy and productive.

  • +4

    Just remember, you don’t need to be academic to succeed in life. Self believe, hard work, never give up, ignore the doubters and eventually one will excel.

  • +7

    Sounds like you overestimate your son's intellect lol.

  • +4

    Just wanted to chime in to say that almost every degree can be transferred into after a year at uni with good uni results, which reflect your tertiary ability far better than HSC which is mostly spoon feed easy problems at selective schools anyway.

    This includes law, engineering, science, math, actuarial studies etc.

    The exceptions exist, like undergraduate medicine, but even then postgraduate medicine students are shown to be better in a number of ways (eg bedside manner) than undergraduate entry med.
    students.

    High school performance really doesn’t reflect how people end up doing in a wholistic sense. Obviously you want your kid to do well, but even going to a non selective school and encouraging discipline and hard work in extracurricular that the kid is interested in will pay dividends and makes the difference small.

    Also, selective schools produce so many kids with depression and anxiety it’s not even funny. Don’t just focus on marks, focus on bringing up a kid that doesn’t have crippling mental health problems lol. Not to mention how many selective and private school kids are on ‘disability’ and get exam provisions that give them breaks etc. that other (I.e. less wealthy) kids don’t get. I’ve heard upwards of 30% at some private schools.

    If you really think your kid is deserving, you can always sit them as their own HSC cohort with a private tutor whereby their marks are scales by their own HSC performance. Very risky though.

  • +5

    Selective schools aren't all they're cracked up to be. You're in a very high pressure environment which I don't think is conducive to a young person's well-being. See this article I wrote a number of years ago: https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/selective-schooling-harmed-my…

    I would hope you focus on his successes rather than his failures, no-one benefits from being constantly told they're not good enough.

    • I think it depends.

      Some kids will shine, others will struggle.

      Just with anything in life, there are kids that love the extreme challenge. Which they should as they can aim to be something that requires that challenge. Imagine a sh!t doctor or lawyer. I mean there are, but hopefully most are filtered out.

      Then there are those that are on the other side and choose other pathways (less pressure and stress).

      And either are fine. The point is, the kid. As a parent you want to hopefully combine the kids' potential, along with their mental capacity. It has to be at their 'safe' level.

    • +2

      Definitely. At least in my experience there was always a line down the corridor of students just waiting to see the counsellors (for a variety of anxiety/stress/etc reasons), and for those that were lucky enough to "thrive" in that sort of competitive environment, they'd always make sure they'd let the people in the line know that they were wasting their time seeing the counsellors when instead they could be studying, or worse, they'd ask when we'd hurt or kill ourselves so the rest of them could get boosted marks on exams.

      If the high pressure enviro works for the kid, then great, but otherwise the deteriorating mental health aspect (which is especially important for these young people who generally are just very unsure) is something that always gets swept under the rug as "they're young, they'll figure it out, it's nothing" or "that won't happen to my child" etc.

  • +3

    I think schools are wising up to test preppers as it's well known that many families will train their children from a young age to get already for these scholarships tests. This doesn't truly reflect a students ability.

    The tests are now likely designed to assess intelligence over knowledge. More problem solving and application tasks.

    In the writing tasks they are likely looking for creativity and student voice as opposed to the cookie cutter responses that a tutoring school will have a student develop.

  • +4

    I know someone who had a 99+ TER, studied astronomy at uni, who later became a teacher after they had a few bumps in the road

    Upper high school results aren't the be all and end all

  • +6

    OP I am a doctor and I did not go through the traditional process (changed career). My advice to you is to get them to a high performing school that isn't selective. There are plenty of these, including public ones and independent. You can go through the rankings and find one. It's not selective or nothing. Do NOT burn your child out before year 12. A single exam on a single day is really indicative of nothing. ACER are absolute ****** in the way they run exams and one year the exams might line up to what you've done and in another year they may not. If your child sat next year they could top it. The learning here is to tell your child you are extremely proud of their hard work and they've shown they are made of tough stuff. To work so hard for that exam at such a young age is incredible so ease up. I could not have done that.

    My kids are going to good public schools that are a bit academic but focus heavily on wellbeing and that also have a good music program. Their ATAR will be their ATAR and will be a reflection of where they are at, at that point in time and if it's good enough to get them into a decent university course, that will be enough for me. At university all that dedication and hard work that your child is ALREADY doing will hold them in extremely good stead, and they will get the space to grow from there. Once you're in the door of university, the ability to excel and transfer around is much greater than in high school. I agree with your child needing to be in a cohort of motivated kids, but they are not just limited to selective and 'top' private schools. You just need to be brave enough to guide them through an imperfect world and that's much harder than the ride through these places, but ultimately sets you up for life in a way that those places can't.

    • It's not selective or nothing

      😬

  • Too much of a good thing…

    “For whoso hath too much of any good, Of that same good he shall be soon bereft.”

    Brain overload.

  • +4

    My 2c - I did the entry exam with not much study in NSW decades ago and had a similar result - nailed some of the categories especially maths and science but didn’t do so well on English-style subjects.

    It may have been a sop to make me feel better, but at the time I was told that this is a common result for boys especially.

    I went to a normal state high school which I now k is had a reputation for being rough. Lessons were 40 minutes and - even in the top classes teachers would spend 15+ minutes out of 40 minutes getting kids to sit down and listen ie. Behaviour management.

    I regularly came top of the year (except for English lol) out of hundreds of kids. I didn’t love that school, had trouble making friends and was severely bullied by another student.

    While I was in year 8 my Dad applied for me to join the local selective school based on my results. I know he spoke to the principal, but I don’t know what was discussed.

    I was accepted and moved to the selective school in year 9.
    It was like night and day.
    55 minute lessons and every single kid was there ready to learn. No interruptions or misbehaviour.

    When I started they put me in the bottom classes and it took me 6 months to catch up to the pace.

    Even at the new school I loved legal studies and I loved English but my essays didn’t get great marks.

    My teachers would say that the standard of conversation and debate we would have in class was not reflected in my essays. One of the English teachers was kind enough to run some extra classes in year 11 for me and 5 of my male peers to help us become better essay writers and that really moved the needle.

    I came in the middle of the year and it taught me that I’d need to work hard to reach a higher level. That was a very helpful lesson to learn in year 9.

    It wasn’t a shock when I reached University that there are many other smart folks out there.

    Sadly I saw some friends who had topped their year at regular high schools crumble (ie. Nervous breakdown, depression, end up in retail), under the weight of their own ( and parents) expectations when they reached uni because they were not coming first.

    I know it’s so much more competitive now than when I was in school. I would encourage your son to gain the social and emotional intelligence to be able to find like-minded friends wherever he goes. You can always apply to a specific school if they have intakes in later years. I’d also recommend getting him involved outside of school in activities where he will meet other smart kids and have to compete with them. I’m sure he will be fine.

  • +3

    What can you learn from this experience? The same thing you can learn from the hundreds of thousands who have come before him who have tried and not succeeded at the selective school entry process but have gone on to have successful professional careers and be good people regardless of whether they studied at a selective school.

  • +2

    Ah this bring back some not so good memories..

    He tried his best but maybe it wasn't his day. Exams are like that, especially selective ones. My cousin got into a top 50 school and she was by far the most unexpected one to get in, but she just had a good day.

    Learning point for me would be: your son may struggle in real exam environment. This likely stems from pressure that you might otherwise not know about. My brother got into a top 5 selective and only after graduation he admitted how pressured he was to perform for my parents. The pressure ate into his confidence, to the point he believed his atar wasnt good enough (he got 99.2 which I thought was stellar). Try keep open minded, let him know there are many paths to the same goal and he has other priorities in life - family, friends, school memories. If your kid was truly an A+ student, the results will follow suite.

  • +2

    Living your childs life for them, much? Let them follow their own destiny and heart.Beware the pedesatl, it's a long way to fall.
    We need more tradies.
    The myth that we can all be astronauts via the much peddled BS that "little Jimmy can be anything if he puts his mind to it", has had plenty of casualties.
    And maybe, just maybe, your son is saying what you want to hear.

    You courted controversy, and rightly so
    Go & watch Dead Poets Society.

  • Is your son’s peer group supportive and/or competitive with each other academically?

    If not, that may have hindered your sons performance in the tests.

    If they are, he could be better off where he is.

    • +1

      Unfortunately the current peer group does not support that.

      • Is he in the gifted & talented program? Time to encourage him to hang out with that crew.

  • +4

    You just had shown to you that money can't buy everything.
    If you actually learn that lesson is dependent on you.

  • +6

    From someone coming from a low ranking public school (250+), I can say from experience that the school itself has little overall effect on future outcomes.

    Yes it may be a conducive academic environment but that in itself is a huge amount of mental pressure for students.

    If he is an A+ student he'll be fine wherever he goes.

    For a practical example myself and siblings/cousins who went to the same low ranked public school are all now in high performing jobs. My now work colleagues come from all walks of life many from private schooling , selective and some from public. It made no difference to the end point.

    Life after high school is where the real test is.
    Teaching good habits, life values and resilience, and the ability to be independent is more important in a growing mind.

    • +1

      There are lots of edge cases, by stating one doesn't mean that it is true.
      If you went to a high-ranking selective school (10+), I guarantee that you have received a higher score based on scaling along.

      You can still teach good habits, life values and resilience, independent AND go to Selective school.
      Just because you go to Selective school, it doesn't mean that you will miss out of the soft skills.

  • -1

    Hopefully your kid will be a good money making machine for you. Good luck!.

    • I used to love watching the Kumars at Number 42

  • After reading so many comments I have to ask : whats your ethnicity OP? (Asian / Indian)? Gives a lot of context.

  • +6

    The emotions I get from reading this post almost make me suspect that it is almost a troll post. Putting this aside…

    Let us take a minute and think about everything you said in your original post.

    He had been diligently preparing for the past 9-10 months leading up to the exam, attending multiple tuition sessions, both at large, well-established tuition centers and private ones.

    Most of the other students who went for that selective entry exam also did the private tuition sessions, and prepared extensively beforehand - I am not sure how you think this should be enough to guarantee a position - these things are all expected now. The competition is incredibly high, and only the best of the best get through. It is a sad reality.

    While the cost of these tuition sessions was substantial, I didn't mind spending the money on his education as long as it benefited him.

    Perhaps this needs to read "I didn't mind spending the money on his education as long as he got into the selective school". Results aside, all this extra education has still benefited him in his knowledge base, which will still be useful in life and further education. So, if your stated intention is true you should still be happy with undergoing the exercise. I mean, he could have spent 5 hours a day playing Fortnite or watching mindless reaction videos on YouTube. Instead, he furthered his education. Is that not a good thing?

    I want to clarify that I encouraged him to take the exam, but he was willing to do so of his own accord.

    Given the environment and expectations - to some degree, I don't think he really felt like he had a choice.
    My daughter has a student in her Grade 5 class who excels in maths. He always gets everything right, 100% on all the tests. The other day he got 1 question wrong for the first time in a long time - his reaction - he cried. It is upsetting to me that the expectation of his high teacher and peers is now so high that he thinks that this is a failure.

    He had the potential to succeed, as he is considered an A+ student in his current school.

    I have no doubt he will succeed often during his life in the areas of academia, he sounds like a good student, but should it really be assumed that he will always succeed in everything? It sounds to me like this is what you are expecting. It is my belief that you can't be good at everything, all the time. If all life skills are a pie chart, surely academia only makes up part of that pie chart. I think this is a weakness in the current education system and often overlooked by society.

    I am proud of what he has done, but I want to learn from this setback.

    It doesn't sound like you are in fact proud, if so, would you really have posted this in the first place? Be honest with yourself - what do you really feel - disappointment?

    It is a very painful experience.

    Which part is the most painful - paying for extra tutorials, or believing something is a certainty and it turns out that it does not? In life, there are really no certainties. You should never assume something is a given.

    How do I take this as a lesson learned?

    Expect less, and you will be disappointed less often. Try to make the most of the opportunities as they present themselves and when things work out well, consider it a blessing.

    What went wrong?

    Unfortunately, I think your initial expectations and assumptions were wrong to begin with. If your son was accepted that should have been a bonus - not a given. This is how this should be been framed in the first place.

    I doubt the department will revisit this case as it has been decided.

    There is likely nothing to revisit - quite simply the other students likely performed better on the day due to natural ability, prior education, preparation, drive, and even luck. Just because the result didn't match what you expected, does not make it wrong.

    Please try and reflect on what I have said.

    • The other day he got 1 question wrong for the first time in a long time - his reaction - he cried

      FMD. I hope he doesn't end up lying flat after uni, because life is not black and white, nor appled maths for that matter.

    • The other day he got 1 question wrong for the first time in a long time - his reaction - he cried

      Boy is he in for a horrible life if this happens….

      • It's a classic sign of parents 'hot-housing' their kids. It rarely ends well.The emotional damage can be life changing.
        It happens more in families with academic parents and some ethnicities where class systems dominate the mindset

  • +1

    That is the exact reason why a selective school is good for him – to provide a conducive environment for his learning.

    @blitzzbargain I understand where you're coming from. However there are common stereotypes of public school everywhere, I think, and some might be justified. I went to public school myself but my parent then moved me to a private school starting at Year 7. This happened overseas though. Friends of mine sweated blood to put their two daughters in a renown private school in Pymble, NSW, even moved closer to that area. They value education, and have high expectation that their children will end well in life and not, for example, engage in teen pregnancy or deal drugs while they're still studying.

    How do I take this as a lesson learned? What went wrong?

    As some other community members have responded here, the institution itself does not guarantee that your kid will be successful in later life. I used to be an average student and my grades were constantly in the lower percentage of the class through to my undergraduate study. But 30+ years later, I have two postgrad degrees, one of which is from a top uni in the Asia Pacific, and I am living a life that I choose and am destined to be. I'm also financially in a better position than several of my uni colleagues who're in the C-suite though I don't have a corporate career.

    If I may make a guess, you must have followed the path laid out to you by your parents or someone more senior than you, and you found out that it takes you to a significant success in life including coming and living in Australia. But that's your definition of success. Your son belongs to a different era and generation and you should not in any way expect him to follow the same path as yours.

    If there's a lesson: build that conducive environment at home yourself by investing more time with your son to keep his motivation alive to continue learning and improving himself. Even if he loves playing video games, you can guide him to see different career paths, such as becoming an app developer, or a YouTuber, TikToker … Outside home, tuition classes may help cultivate his social skills but you can also enrol him in different activities that he prefers, beyond the classroom experience. If you want him to improve his writing and verbal reasoning skills, why not enrolling him in a book club, or book writing class for children with an author? Libraries usually offer this activity. That is, if he really loves reading and writing, otherwise you'll put him under additional stress. Good luck.

  • +3

    Take it from someone who was selected for the program in WA, its overrated.

    I think the highlight was when our year 10 maths teacher told us our class' bell curve was below that of the rest of the year.

    We found that if you put a group of students together they naturally will form a bell curve, some will drop down and others will excel. The problem is when you have naturally gifted and those that are book smart (study every weekend to get ahead of the class) the book smart cant work under pressure because theyre always coasting and the naturally gifted get stressed and burn out because the book smart push the curriculum forward at a faster rate.

    Still ended up with 50% in uni, 25% in tafe or equivalent and 25% on centrelink/drug rehab.

  • +4

    Your son has proven that he has drive and discipline. Long term these factors will affect his success more than anything else. The reality is he was competing with the best of the best in that exam - naturally gifted kids and kids who had been studying and prepping for YEARS.

    Don’t make your kid feel any worse than he does. Tell him you are proud of him. Take him out and celebrate his hard work and the results - still great given the cohort he was up against.

    Resilience to move past disappointment is important. There will be many more disappointments to come. But there is always another path. I know some of the smartest people who went to those selective schools but only got scores of 75 at the end of it al because they were bored and lazy…they couldn’t even get into melbourne or Monash. But they “grew up a little” and then decided to put some work in and found different pathways to get to where they wanted to go. Now they are very successful in their careers earning mega bucks. I also know people who got 99.95 who ended up mentally ill from the pressure their parents put on them and they ended up in careers they hated due to family pressure to be doctors or lawyers.

    That is the lesson to be learned.

    • +1

      Well Said! Thank you. 🙏
      I am proud of him indeed and he knows it well This discussion will undoubtedly be a valuable learning experience, and I believe it resonates with many people in our community.

      • +1

        You need to be 110% sure that material rewards mean more to him than a camping trip with Dad, and not a single word about school and life after it during that time.Unless it's coming from him, and even then I'd be telling him, to leave that for later .

  • +1

    Git gud

    I passed the test with no tutors

    Sounds like skill issue

  • The test this year was a different type from all the previous tests (ACAR vs the other one forgot the name) meaning all the old prep the tutoring provided was likely not helpful or that revalent to the actual test.
    Also maybe you are idealizing your son or putting too much pressure on him
    You should get him to do the best with what he has left given the circumstances and move on

  • +3

    And a brilliant ATAR is not a golden ticket to eternal happiness. Even if you attain an ATAR that gets you straight into the course you want and the course goes well, there are so many other factors that play a part in how successful you will be in the workplace.

    • +1

      a brilliant ATAR is not a golden ticket to eternal happiness

      End thread right there

      • Not golden ticket.
        But if I have to choose from brilliant ATAR and very poor ATAR, I will choose the former.
        Not golden ticket, but it helps a bit.

        • Yep.
          Not golden ticket, but it helps a bit.
          That's the message OP should have always endorsed for their son.

          • @Protractor: How do you know that he doesn't?

            I used to think that "money doesn't bring you happiness".
            But now, I think "money doesn't bring you happiness, but it helps a bit" :-)

    • lol - I was told IT WAS! that life will fall into place, I can't be the only one?

  • +2

    I am proud of what he has done, but I want to learn from this setback.
    It is a very painful experience.
    How do I take this as a lesson learned?

    (Emphasis my own)

    It's not about you though.

    I find it strange that you haven't indicated your son's reaction to the post exam results at all.

    I trust you have been supporting him & haven't made it a big deal.

    • Absolutely. It's not a big deal. I even rewarded him for his efforts. As I've mentioned multiple times, this discussion is meant to reflect the journey he has been through.

      • Aagh yes but was this 'reward' a material thing?
        Because that can easily become an anchor going fwd.

      • It's the wording that you have chosen that made me wonder.

        It was an exam where the outcome was not as planned. We have few of these 'tests' through life & it's important to appreciate the ones that matter more rather than approach each one as 'Chicken Little' did.

  • We just need to learn from this setback.

    you keep sayin this, Not sure what that would achieve as hes already tried and failed.

    Or is this because you have other kids that will suffer the same fate ?

  • +1

    You said he's an A+ student in his school but the thing is there's heaps of schools around and therefore there are also heaps of A+ students around. He was competing against students across the city/state. You might not know these kids or see these kids yourself but they do exist and they're also studying really hard to get into these selective schools.

    It's like if you were going to apply for a c-suite role; by the time you get there luck becomes a huge factor in whether you get the job or not (despite what many people like to say, i.e. "it's just hard work"). Same thing if you apply for a job and there are 100 other applicants, by the time the pool is whittled down to the top 10 luck again plays a large role. Maybe someone else trips up on one of the interview questions which makes you look good, maybe the manager just liked someone more than they liked you etc.

    • -3

      Another piece of misinformation: for selective schools, they compete against their cohort with the 4% rule.

      Please read below if you are interested, so that misinformation can be avoided, as many people may read your comments. Thank you for your understanding 🙏
      (https://selectiveentry.acer.org/vic/results-and-selection#:~….)

      • +3

        How is that misinformation or the 4% rule relevant to that post? Can you explain because I'm not following at all?

        The above post literally describes the selective school process ie. you compete against a large variety of candidates, many of whom are likely A+ which makes it harder for you to stand out. You may also be A+ and even get through to the next round. But in the end you are not successful due to other factors ie. 4% rule, gender balancing, principals discretion. This does not mean you aren't A+, just that after all the factors were taken into account you weren't successful.

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