My Son Was Not Successful in the Selective Entry Exam - What Can We Learn from This?

blitzzbargain on 08/09/2023 - 23:24
Last edited 12/09/2023 - 21:18

Hi All,

Initially, I was uncertain about whether I should write this post (as it might be controversial), but this is the only place where I can seek input from this wonderful community.
This discussion is merely to gauge what lessons were learned as retrospectives and share with others.

Background:
My son participated in this year's Victoria Selective School exam (Exam for Year 9). He had been diligently preparing for the past 9-10 months leading up to the exam, attending multiple tuition sessions, both at large, well-established tuition centers and private ones. Additionally, he devoted himself to studying beyond his school curriculum for about 2 months before the exam, completing numerous practice test papers. While the cost of these tuition sessions was substantial, I didn't mind spending the money on his education as long as it benefited him.

I want to clarify that I encouraged him to take the exam, but he was willing to do so of his own accord.
He had the potential to succeed, as he is considered an A+ student in his current school.

The results:
He performed exceptionally well on his mock-up exams, so we were quite confident that he would succeed. He performed very well in Reading, Mathematical Reasoning, and Quantitative Reasoning, categorising them as Top and Above Average, However, the actual results were very disappointing especially on the writing and verbal reasoning, well below expectations. He told me that he had the best sleep and was able to concentrate during the exam.

I am proud of what he has done, but I want to learn from this setback.
It is a very challenging experience.
How do I take this as a lesson learned? What went wrong? I doubt the department will revisit this case as it has been decided.

All suggestions are welcome.
Thank you for all the comments! Most of the comments are very supportive, encouraging, and enlightening. Please continue to do so.
I hope some of you will find this thread useful.
However, there are a small number of comments that have resorted to personal attacks on my son (e.g., not good enough, etc.). These comments do not reflect the Ozbargain community and the broader principles of humanity.

Education & Work Selective High School

Comments

  • Muzeeb on 08/09/2023 - 23:29
    +256

    You doctor yet?

    Dad, I'm 15.

    Speak to me when you doctor.

    • AEKaBeer on 09/09/2023 - 09:37
      +89

      Emotional damage!

      • Serapis on 09/09/2023 - 11:49
        +37

        Dad, I've decided I want to be a full time Youtuber

        • FireRunner on 09/09/2023 - 12:03
          +18

          Failure!

          • Worf on 09/09/2023 - 15:03
            +10

            @FireRunner: A is for average
            B is for stoobid

            Jokes…

            • bobbified on 09/09/2023 - 15:11
              +10

              @Worf:

              Jokes…

              According to my asian parents, it's definitely no joke! 😁

        • Loopholio on 09/09/2023 - 15:03
          +5

          I will send you to Jesus!

        • congo on 09/09/2023 - 18:20
          +1

          Dad, I want to become a full-time professional e-sport gamer.

        • nwa on 10/09/2023 - 08:37

          His first was the video 'My son so dumb song'.

    • MagnusPaciscorHons on 09/09/2023 - 18:02
      +4

      It's hard to fail,
      but it's worse never to have tried to succeed.

      So take the steps to fail for the way to success.

      • xylarr on 10/09/2023 - 19:35
        +4

        Or as Homer Simpson said: Lisa, you tried and failed miserably. The lesson is: never try

        • brandt on 21/09/2023 - 12:13

          Or as Mr. Burns puts it: I'll keep it short and sweet. Family, religion, friendship. These are the three demons you must slay if you wish to succeed in business.

    • lunartemis on 09/09/2023 - 20:37
      -3

      I somehow read that conversation with a strong Asian accent

    • Sammyboy on 12/09/2023 - 15:35

      But Dad, I can now become a teacher for free!

    • Gunnar on 22/09/2023 - 22:07

      It’s 12 according to the reference
      https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hVODv8A5-EM

  • FoxJump on 08/09/2023 - 23:32
    +94

    did he actually fail the exam?
    or did he fail your expectations only?

      • FoxJump on 08/09/2023 - 23:41
        +191

        it'll be okay mate. your son has tried their best. don't make them feel bad about it. he already knows that you're unhappy.

        show him appreciation for the effort he put in.

        in real life it's not about what number you got on a test. it's about how hard a tumble you can take and yet keep going and get the job done.

        be a dad

          • Muzeeb on 08/09/2023 - 23:50
            +55

            @blitzzbargain: Not everyone performs well under exam pressure. Everyone has a week subject. No one is perfect.

            • Mechz on 08/09/2023 - 23:55
              +87

              @Muzeeb: Which week do you perform well at proofreading?

              • Melencir on 09/09/2023 - 06:34
                +35

                @Mechz: We can rule out this week at the very least

            • jackary on 09/09/2023 - 03:48
              +28

              @Muzeeb: Good advise.

            • pharkurnell on 09/09/2023 - 10:51
              +4

              @Muzeeb:

              … not everyone performs well under exam pressure.

              This is me 100%
              I walked into a class on Networking talking to teacher about networking stuff, and she said you'll love today theres a test on what your talking about.

              Test Paper landed on my desk, and my brain totally Blue screened. Failed the exam badly. Talked to teacher about it as I was pretty bummed over it, she had seen it many times before.

          • AEKaBeer on 09/09/2023 - 09:42
            +20

            @blitzzbargain: It's his exam and his learning experience, you don't need to learn anything about it. You said he worked hard and did well on the practice exams, he was as prepped as anyone at that age can be.

          • DevD on 26/09/2023 - 20:15

            @blitzzbargain: really curious to know why you have got so many negative votes. I don't see anything wrong in your comments

          • freefall101 on 09/09/2023 - 12:34
            +22

            @blitzzbargain: There's nothing to learn. He did his best and not everything works out perfectly.

            All you need to do is learn that sometimes there is no learning experience. Just move on from it to the next step and congratulate him on all the hard work he put in.

          • Protractor on 09/09/2023 - 17:10
            +20

            @blitzzbargain: "WE"?

            You're not him, he aint you. Back off a bit

          • PopCounty on 09/09/2023 - 18:15
            +4

            @blitzzbargain: Actually you need to ‘Unlearn’ first.
            Aus is pretty diverse country and while education is important, it’s not that only factor you got told to concentrate on.
            So unlearn first not to have expectation from your kid as your parents may have had from u in education. Happens all the time in India.

            Sports, music, drama, trades … so many things. Let your kid chose one.

          • FlyingMiffy on 09/09/2023 - 22:56
            +11

            @blitzzbargain: U keep referring to it as a set back and the more you say it, the more it implies that it is you, the parent, that can't see the forest from the tree. The kid is going to have alot tougher challenges in life than an exam, one result doesnt define him but your constant reference of a set back will. If he tried his best, that should be enough to make you the proudest dad out there.

          • ChatCPT on 10/09/2023 - 16:36
            -2

            @blitzzbargain: the worst parent award goes to…

      • Bargain-er on 09/09/2023 - 08:56
        +7

        Sometimes number of kids applying from his school as well. Somehow probably the quota had been reached. My son didn't get in as well but he told me alr fr start he went for the exam just for the experience. I'm cool with that, academic is not everything. I'm happy enough that he had the initiative and motivation to have a go.

        • juki on 09/09/2023 - 20:50

          you can be proud i wish i had been that smart, from teachers to parents only academics mattered and well because you want to please them guess what i chose to do…

      • tessel on 09/09/2023 - 12:07
        +8

        Life goes on and when you are on your death bed you'll look back and go "(profanity) why did I even let that bother me".

      • bakemon0 on 09/09/2023 - 14:22
        +5

        in 10 years all this wouldn't matter

      • OzBarAnon on 10/09/2023 - 00:14

        Off-day. In my final year of high school, I did well in English class, normally getting 80+ scores on my assessments. Several times my teacher would use my work to demonstrate how to execute certain concepts well, etc. Obviously, I expected to do well. My expected study score for that subject was probably in the low 40s ballpark leading into the final exam (assuming I performed as well in the exam as I had been in class), so I was feeling good. Then the exams happened. I got my final results, and I must have blown it big-style because my study score was somewhere in the low 30s.

      • CalmLemons on 10/09/2023 - 20:40
        +4

        If you’re asking this question and you’re puzzled, I believe the issue may lie with you rather than him.

        A father often thinks his child is brighter than the other kids.

        I assume you mean the melb high macrob exams.

        You need to meet a minimum standard then normally only two or three students from each school get in.

        You are mostly competing against immigrants with nothing to lose. They work hard and they are smart.

        Also, maybe because the current school standards are so low, and sitting his first scaled inter-school exam has revealed the true calibre of your son - sorry, this is harsh, but this is life.

      • RTX9090Ti on 11/09/2023 - 07:20

        So what's your next move? sending him to private school or local catchment public school?

      • MustardKetchup on 11/09/2023 - 08:13
        -2

        Would hate to have you as a parent growing up, good luck to your son…..

      • GandalfTheCheap on 11/09/2023 - 21:13

        What schools did you choose? Are they schools in the top 10 academic ally? Are his parents geniuses?

        It is not easy to get into the very top schools.

        It is always a good idea to have several choices of school.

      • Sammyboy on 12/09/2023 - 15:37

        Selective schools will only accept a max quota from each school. Thats why some parents put their kids into not so good schools for year 7 onwards as less competition within the school

  • Wiadro on 08/09/2023 - 23:43
    +76

    seems like you're putting too much pressure on him

    • FoxJump on 08/09/2023 - 23:46
      +5

      kid better not be reading this!

    • Sinnerator on 09/09/2023 - 09:24
      +5

      yes, on some level kid may have failed just to relieve the pressure

    • kaleidoscope on 09/09/2023 - 20:10
      +1

      🤫
      you’re not supposed to talk such things

  • Almost Banned on 08/09/2023 - 23:51
    +28

    Maybe your kid is just not that smart?

    • MessyG on 09/09/2023 - 10:52
      +45

      Of course he is smart. He is A+ student who has committed to doing extra work. A single data point on one exam on one day does not a smart or stupid person make. Attitudes like yours are nothing more than an excuse. Can't believe the upvotes this has gotten.

      • Bargain-er on 09/09/2023 - 11:40
        +2

        Yeah, dun understand the upvotes as well…

        • serpserpserp on 09/09/2023 - 19:06

          People love to troll around here. This kind of thread would attract them all…

        • leiiv on 09/09/2023 - 23:46
          +2

          Because he may be smart, but not "that smart". There are always someone smarter than you.

        • syousef on 10/09/2023 - 08:02
          +1

          Tall poppy syndrome. Some people just can't be happy unless their boot is on someone's head.

      • Almost Banned on 09/09/2023 - 11:46
        +9

        Maybe you and the kid share the same problem.
        I didn't say the kid isn't smart. We simply don't know. However we also can't rule out that possibility.
        You, on the other hand, assume the opposite, despite the only independent measure we have suggesting the opposite…

        • MessyG on 10/09/2023 - 16:58

          A single data point by ACER when their school scores have been excellent? That's not an independent measure. It's a moment in time.

          • Almost Banned on 10/09/2023 - 18:03
            +2

            @MessyG: It is FAR more independent a measure of intelligence than school marks - which are far more a measure of work and likeability.

            • johnno07 on 11/09/2023 - 07:31
              +1

              @Almost Banned:

              work and likeability.

              Arguably more valuable traits than what the OP is expecting from their kid.

              • Almost Banned on 11/09/2023 - 11:20
                +3

                @johnno07: Its great to be smart - but generally hard work and likeability will take the win.

            • MessyG on 12/09/2023 - 10:48

              @Almost Banned: ACER exams do not test intelligence. Their exams are designed to exclude and the prize goes to the person most resourced to game the exam.

              • Almost Banned on 12/09/2023 - 11:02

                @MessyG: Which, by the OP's own account, should have been his son - given the practice tests/tutoring etc…???

      • md333 on 09/09/2023 - 12:29
        +24

        The selective test is different to school work, it's supposed to pick kids with potential to do well. Could be he is doing well at school through studying very hard rather than natural ability. Which is fine, but not what the selection tests are trying to pick.
        (whether the tests are effective is another matter).

        • Almost Banned on 09/09/2023 - 16:28
          +5

          Absolutely.
          School marks are generally a product of work, not ability.
          Selective tests should be attempting to measure ability, not work.

      • Freestyle on 10/09/2023 - 05:32
        +5

        A+ student in aussie schools means nothing lol, piss easy curriculum.

        • ColtNoir on 11/09/2023 - 07:09

          A+ means nothing as we don’t grade in letters.

      • morse on 10/09/2023 - 08:08
        +7

        Selective schools are meant to be those that are exceptionally intelligent and apply themselves. A+ students can be of good to average intelligence and just apply themselves and learn the curriculum. I took ‘that smart’ to mean exactly that. Maybe OPs kid is not as smart as being in the top 1% and their expectations are unrealistic. Maybe a bit harsh on the delivery, but also a reality check.

      • CalmLemons on 10/09/2023 - 22:48

        Well this is a general populace shopping website. Would think top 1% income earners who are more clued in don't spend much time on bargain forums….

      • Vanceer on 11/09/2023 - 15:46
        +1

        Just because he might be "smart" in math, doesn't mean he's "smart" at writing or verbal reasoning.

        That said, I don't believe in the "smart" label. Anyone can learn; some quicker and easier than others. Probably needed more work in writing or verbal reasoning, or even a break from constantly bombarding his brain with information non-stop.

    • Thaal Sinestro on 09/09/2023 - 15:54
      +13

      Need to give them an IQ test. As Md333 said, "Could be he is doing well at school through studying very hard rather than natural ability."

      People these days think their child is unique and special, but the truth is there are 8 billion human beings on the planet. Most people cannot ever comprehend how large a number that is. In all likelihood, you are just average and mediocre rather than a prodigy. Nothing to be ashamed of. Besides, academic ability is vastly overrated in Australia. Drop out of school, become a tradesman and live like a king. I have a nephew who wasn't interest in book learning but is about to begin a trade apprenticeship. I am proud of him.

    • user478744 on 11/09/2023 - 14:35
      +1

      smart is not a real term? when it comes to primary school and generally doing the selective test unfortunately it's just a bunch of memorisation…
      no real application here.

    • hoppers on 11/09/2023 - 20:13
      +1

      The kid is smart enough but his dad doesn't

  • Brown Sugar on 08/09/2023 - 23:53
    +35

    It is a very painful experience.

    For whom? It is humbling, and selective schools don't mean much in the grand scheme of things.
    If he's still an A+ student at his current school, he can attain those grades and do well

      • yessum on 09/09/2023 - 00:04
        +61

        Yeah but if your child is an A+ student, shouldn't he be above his school average anyway? Why focus on averages when you yourself don't think he is?

        • SydStrand on 09/09/2023 - 01:34
          +35

          Because it's difficult to excel in a vacuum. While it's theoretically possible to be in a crap school but grind it out to 99.95, the deck is stacked firmly against you. Compared to a rank 130 school, a rank 13 selective school is likely to have more academic students than burnouts for the OP's kid to befriend. That school would also likely offer 'harder' or more obscure subjects that maximise scaling and aren't offered at state schools (e.g., extension 2 maths, language continuers, etc.). Good schools also benefit from cohort scaling while bad ones don't. It'll take just one 'off day' for the OP's son to come second in an internal exam, inherit Beavis or Butthead's external mark, and crater his ATAR, if that's indeed the OP's sole objective here.

          • blitzzbargain on 09/09/2023 - 07:26
            -2

            @SydStrand: You are on the ball!! Well said! That is the exact reason why a selective school is good for him – to provide a conducive environment for his learning. For example, he may need an extension in math now; otherwise, he's just sitting in class learning something he already knows.
            Also, the selective school would offer extracurricular activities that better suit his interests and needs.

            • Ironh59 on 09/09/2023 - 09:42

              @blitzzbargain: It is indeed very well said. My son had never been a hard worker, never been tutored, however he did sit for the exam and got into second best school in the state.
              He struggled in year 7, when he realised that only being gifted was not going to cut it. It’s the kind of environment where you score 90% in a maths test and still sitting at the bottom of the class.
              He started putting lot more effort to close that 10% gap. In a comprehensive school, he wouldn’t have cared as 90% score would be good enough.

            • AlanHB on 09/09/2023 - 09:49
              +9

              @blitzzbargain: I really don't get the issue if he's an A+ student. If you're concerned about providing a "conductive environment for his learning" changing his current school would only risk that.

              That is, his current school has made him into an A+ student, so it's a conductive environment for his learning.

              As a side note I reckon selective schools are not valuable. I went to a private school until year 11 and my grades were relatively average. In year 11 I moved to a rural place and my grade was 16 people, average class size of 4 people.

              For the first year I did what you are describing, sitting in class learning something I already knew. As a result my grades increased significantly. Ended up with a great entry score and got into law. Practicing law for about 13 years now.

              • suzley on 09/09/2023 - 14:37
                +2

                @AlanHB: "Practising".

              • Chandler on 11/09/2023 - 11:01

                @AlanHB: Not necessarily. A gifted student can still excel in a bad school - although they may also falter and fall off as they're not having their ability challenged or recognised. I didn't get challenged in my schooling, and as a result didn't learn good study habits and thus faltered at university and ended up dropping out to pursue a career related to my area of study. We could have a debate about attribution here, but that's not the point of this comment.

                Schools deliver a curriculum - for most public schools, likely the department specified curriculum and not a lot more. Private schools as OP has already noted provide more learning opportunities i.e. extension.

                In public schooling - kids are there from 9am-3pm and that's the only learning they get apart from any homework, which is either self- or parent-supported. For many families, this will be the only real learning their children will receive, because (and especially for families in public schooling) many families won't have either the time or the money to provide further learning opportunities for their children, especially if their children are particularly gifted beyond the abilities of the parents. I know I myself ended up wasting a lot of time in (public) primary school as I was well ahead of the pack - I remember my teacher in year 3 had myself and another gifted student faffing about with a solar robot kit to keep us occupied since we'd finished our classwork well ahead of the rest of the class. The other (more) gifted student got into university before I'd finished secondary school.

                In private school - you've already self-selected to families who either have time or money to provide further learning opportunities for their children. Further to that, many private schools offer extra learning opportunities (potentially at a cost) to students (tutoring, extra-curricular learning, university courses, etc). I don't believe I'd be in the position I'm in today if I went through the public system for secondary school - fortunately my parents could afford to put me through the Catholic school system for that.

            • Grazz989 on 09/09/2023 - 11:27

              @blitzzbargain: What exactly do you think the difference between a 95 ATAR and say, an 85 ATAR would be in real practice? How would it affect his actual life?

              • rumblytangara on 09/09/2023 - 12:10
                +2

                @Grazz989: Well, at the most obvious level, being able to get into a load of uni courses if you're picky about the university (e.g. law, commerce, medicine, engineering, comp sci). That's not the be all and end all of things, but if the kid wants to do that, those options become severely curtailed.

                I can't believe you had to ask that, the answer is so obvious and it's been repeated over and over already?

              • SydStrand on 09/09/2023 - 12:21
                +4

                @Grazz989: It could mean the difference between going straight into their dream course as an undergraduate, or taking a several year detour in another bachelors degree to maximise GPA, then re-applying as a postgraduate. It's not the end of the world, and doesn't matter if the OP's son is happy with 85, but if they want to get into a competitive degree, that 10% in year 12 could save years and thousands of dollars in HECS debt.

                • hawkshead on 10/09/2023 - 09:00
                  -2

                  @SydStrand: i dont understand? after doing 1 year in ANY program you can internal transfer with 100 atar?(I went to high school in another country so idk what the ranks mean just if you take a year in whatever undergrad (prefereably with transferable credits)program you feel like with decent 5-7 in courses you get an equivelant of 100). where's the years?

                  • SydStrand on 10/09/2023 - 12:03

                    @hawkshead: What are you talking about? ATAR is high school, not university grade. If you got 100, you could get into anything as an undergraduate. Also, internal transfer after a single year of an incomplete degree will be based upon your ATAR like any current school leaver, not a single year's GPA. It's not some back door 'life hack' for people who scored poorly in the HSC to get into medicine by just spending a year in agriculture.

                    • hawkshead on 10/09/2023 - 12:57
                      -1

                      @SydStrand: Idk what atar is I didnt do australian school but you can absolutely spend a year doing a program with transferable credits and then just transfer into a 'medicine' program? Most programs are almost identical to each other and if 'medicine' is the measure here you just take a similar degree and then transfer in the 2nd year? I don't see the benefits of stressing over whatever atar is? if uni is your goal.

                      • rumblytangara on 10/09/2023 - 13:02
                        +7

                        @hawkshead:

                        Idk what atar is I didnt do australian school … I don't see the benefits of stressing over whatever atar is? if uni is your goal.

                        If you do not know what an ATAR is, then you simply have no place in this conversation.

                        It's like trying to participate in a conversation about cars and giving opinions, without knowing what an ICE is. Or never having heard of a "steering wheel."

                        • hawkshead on 10/09/2023 - 13:06
                          -1

                          @rumblytangara: I just assumed this person was salty cause the child didnt get into a fancy school and now wont be able to study what they want at uni? isnt that whats happening? But that's not how uni works.
                          I don't spend time around children so I don't really know how their lives work, my experience is only around adults.
                          I do know high school isnt meant to be a competition but a place to learn reading, writing, math, and baby sit children. I don't think its worth stressing about.

                          • rumblytangara on 10/09/2023 - 13:13

                            @hawkshead:

                            hawkshead
                            @blitzzbargain: google internal degree transfer. Get into any program with transferable credits, after 1 year you get perferct 100 atar and can just transfer degree into the program you want with credits so the year isnt wasted.

                            Yet here you are giving advice on how to do transfers between degrees, and you don't know what the fundamental acceptance hurdle for a course is, or how transfers are determined.

                            As @SydStrand has pointed out, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. What you are advising here is utterly nonsensical.

                            IMO the entry system is flawed, but you at least have to have a vague idea what the system is before giving advice on it.

                      • SydStrand on 10/09/2023 - 15:10

                        @hawkshead:

                        Idk what atar is I didnt do australian school but you can absolutely spend a year doing a program with transferable credits and then just transfer into a 'medicine' program?

                        Absolutely not. Internal transfer with an incomplete degree is determined by your ATAR, so you're treated no different than anyone else with a high school diploma. If there is some subject overlap, you may get some credits so you have a reduced study load, but that's it. No 'easier' entry. And most advanced degrees like medicine are very integrated with minimum overlap to softer courses excepting their 'feeder' degrees like biomedical science.

            • flametornado on 09/09/2023 - 20:58
              +3

              @blitzzbargain: Imo none of that really matters in the long term.

              I went to a pretty average public school, didn't study overly hard in high school until maybe second half of year 12. I got in to my preferred degree at Sydney uni (software engineering) with plenty of atar to spare, finished with first class honours (even after failing a subject), went back and completed a phd, and I'm now a principal engineer at one of the top tech companies in aus.

              I've also taught students for over 3 years and I can tell you that students from private or selective schools did no better in a university environment than those from a public school. In some cases they did substantially worse until they got used to a system that doesn't baby you and spoon feed content constantly.

          • Grazz989 on 09/09/2023 - 11:25

            @SydStrand: Could you elaborate on this: "It'll take just one 'off day' for the OP's son to come second in an internal exam, inherit Beavis or Butthead's external mark, and crater his ATAR" ? How does that work, exactly?

            • SydStrand on 09/09/2023 - 12:16
              +6

              @Grazz989: You get an internal rank within your cohort based upon your assessments over the year. Then when cohort sits the external exam at the end of the year, you receive your external grade outright, but your internal will be whatever that rank was on the standardised test. It's supposed to allow comparison between schools, because obviously #1 internally at James Ruse is not the same as #1 at Mt Druitt High. That being said, it's not 1:1, BoS's scaling algorithm is notoriously opaque, is adjusted every year, and it's been well over a decade since I sat the HSC; but back then, if the OP's son dropped an internal and came second, even if they got 100% on the final exam, it only contributes half. The other half will be whatever second in his year got on the external, which in a crap school could be 50%. Not the end of the world, but if you're gunning for 95-100, it will drag your ATAR.

              • Tekon on 11/09/2023 - 22:44
                +1

                @SydStrand: I know your comment is in reference to NSW system, but the exact same system is used in Victoria. Theoretically if you are Rank 1 at your school and do the best out of the cohort on the exam, you are 100% in control of your scores, however, a single off day or anomaly can easily destroy your score. Going to a school with many high achievers who are likely to sit in top 1% of the state allows multiple people to have shots at high ATARs as opposed to a competitive school. It is pretty clear commenters such as AlanHB and yessum are not privy to how the ATAR system works.

                The above is just one of the advantages. The idea of being an A+ student at your school is great until you consider that you might be a C- student at another school. At the end of the day you compete against the entire state, not just your school, for the ATAR.

                Oh and just a side note - Private schools aren't always a good environment for scoring high. Many private schools have weak cohorts compared to some competitive public schools.

                • SydStrand on 12/09/2023 - 18:22
                  +2

                  @Tekon: Yep. My point to the OP is that if you're gunning for a high ATAR in a weak cohort, you're not allowed any 'off days,' because a single bad exam can ruin your ATAR. The second thing that people overlook is subject scaling. You can top your cohort in a bad school, and get 100% on the general maths external, but it'll still contribute less to your ATAR rank than a mid-rank student in a high achieving school scoring 70% on the much harder extension 2 maths. Most high scaling subjects like this aren't even offered as standard in most schools because so few students choose them. Which means you can literally do everything right and smash every assessment offered by your school, but still only hope for high-ish ATAR, because in BoS's eyes, you only topped soft subjects. People who say school doesn't matter are ignoring both the qualitative (academic environment) and quantitative (subject scaling) advantages of a good school. It's not impossible to do well in a bad school, but it's a lot harder, and it's only getting worse with population growth outstripping the supply of good public schools.

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