Would You Purchase a House with This History?

SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 18:56
Last edited 09/09/2023 - 19:52 by 1 other user

I found a house for sale, an older home on a decent block in a good suburb, the price might be negotiable which is what I would do anyways since I’m a true blue OzBargainer.

The agent called us earlier today to disclose something that they are legally required to disclose, over 20 years ago there was a double homicide on the property.

Since that period, the home has had two owners, but I believe the state government here only changed the law 10 years ago to make it mandatory for real estate agents to disclose this to a prospective buyer.

I'm in two minds to pursue this, on one hand I accept that bad things happen and that for all we know, we might be reading this post this in properties or land were massacres have taken place, or even thinking about cities like Berlin, Warsaw and Moscow where horrible things happened and yet no doubt people eat, sleep etc on those sites or even the same rooms. On the other hand, I have no idea where the murderer is, are they still in gaol, or have they died and this those bug me and gives me pause for thought.

What are your thoughts?

Poll Options expired

  • 301
    Yes
  • 177
    No
Home & Garden

Comments

  • belesci on 09/09/2023 - 19:00
    +62

    If you thought about writing it dont buy. Every night you might think of the history and get worried

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 19:02
      +9

      I only found out a few hours ago, so emotions are a bit raw and fluctuating. I'm not the kind of person who believes in spirits, Jinns etc, but its still a bit to chew on.

      • Gunnar on 09/09/2023 - 20:10
        +56

        its still a bit to chew on

        Hopefully the perpetrator was not a cannibal

      • greatlamp on 10/09/2023 - 10:11
        +23

        Get the home blessed by your religious leader of choice.

        You either believe these things exist and follow the remedy, or you don't believe they exist and it doesn't worry you. You seem to be stuck in the middle

        • capslock janitor on 10/09/2023 - 19:44
          +6

          he's also leaning into whether the murderer might come visit

        • ozboygsl on 20/04/2024 - 10:12

          roflmfao!!!

      • juki on 10/09/2023 - 10:18
        +5

        go back to the house see how you feel in person

        if its the fear of the murderer coming back 20 years is a long time and according to a prison guard i met, murderers arent usually a big problem once they have murdered their specific person.

        In 2023 i dont think many people are in prison for that long, if the killer is still alive he's had ample time to come round for a visit

      • Belts on 10/09/2023 - 13:25
        +2

        I hope you feel better about it today.

        For what it’s worth, a few years back I rented an apartment and found out later on the previous tenant passed away in the property which is why it was available. Different situation as there was no murder, but it was a very recent passing and it didn’t bother me in the slightest. Having said that, you couldn’t pay me to live in the Pentridge Prison estate despite the nice houses there (Victoria location). That’s some bad juu juu.

        What I’m saying is - it depends on how you feel abt the place.

        • SupeNintendoChalmers on 10/09/2023 - 13:28
          +2

          It's made Mrs Chalmers restless last night, so that doesn't bode well. I think she has the same questions, is the murderer still alive?, where are they?, what were the circumstances behind the murders? Where exactly did the murders take place?

          • Belts on 10/09/2023 - 13:42
            +1

            @SupeNintendoChalmers: Yeah. Get all the facts first, as you’ve planned to do already, and decide then.

            Do another walk through. Spend some time to really feel it out. Can you still live there peacefully? Y/N. That’ll be your guide.

            All the best with it.

            • SupeNintendoChalmers on 10/09/2023 - 14:01

              @Belts: Thanks :)

              Will certainly feel more at ease after we get more info and another home inspection.

          • leelemon on 10/09/2023 - 22:09
            +1

            @SupeNintendoChalmers: If the murderer isn't in gaol, they are statistically more likely to strike elsewhere. They might revisit the scene and drive past your place on occasion, but I think that's a small price to pay for a discount on a house.

          • RTX9090Ti on 11/09/2023 - 07:23

            @SupeNintendoChalmers: What if the murderer finish his gaol time and decided to return to the house for nostalgia?
            Better get a property with 'clean' record, there're plenty out there.

            • ozchappy on 18/09/2023 - 19:03

              @RTX9090Ti: What if the murderer is dead, but he was actually set up by the cops who will murder anyone who steps foot in the house again lest they discover that the whole thing was a set up and they can't have the truth come out? Or what if the murder was actually a suicide, but then their best friend made it look like a murder so there wouldn't be any shame in the "suicide" and now the best friend has the live a life changine identities every few months, moving around like a nomad, never finding a real home like OP because he did his friend a favour and now people think he's a monster who wants to murder anyone who goes near the house. What if?

      • ozchappy on 18/09/2023 - 18:59

        Djinn are great for relationships, though. At least that's what I heard from a Witcher.

    • MagnusPaciscorHons on 09/09/2023 - 19:36
      +12

      Sometimes the most frightening monsters
      are the ones that exist in our minds.

      Yet couldn't live next to a cemetery
      or a converted old church
      with graves on same property.

    • vid_ghost on 10/09/2023 - 19:53
      +5

      The stress is not worth the diacount.. taking yeara off your life is not worth it.. health is wealth

    • kaleidoscope on 11/09/2023 - 10:19

      ^ this…
      Because every bit of bad luck you have in future you'll associate it with the house which will not be a good thing to your mind

      • SupeNintendoChalmers on 11/09/2023 - 19:45
        +1

        Don't believe in luck.

        • ozchappy on 18/09/2023 - 19:05

          Life's good then, I take it you make your own :)

  • shxhshzhz on 09/09/2023 - 19:02
    +11

    What would the murderer want from you anyway? Since the last two owners probably ran into no problems, it's fine unless you believe in ghosts. It's been 20 years so they could even be dead.

    If it's a bargain, stay true to OzBargain's name and buy it.

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 19:04
      +3

      A concern that is emerging is the murderer, are they alive? If they're dead it makes my decision easier. If they're alive, are they still in gaol? If not where the #$%^ are they? Have they reformed, or are they in a dire mental state?

      • AustriaBargain on 09/09/2023 - 19:06
        +36

        Why would they come back to the same house 20 years later to kill you and your cats or whoever you live with.

        I would be more concerned about being old enough to still call jail "goal", Father Time is more likely to take you before the murderer.

        • SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 19:12

          Why would they come back to the same house 20 years later to kill you and your cats or whoever you live with.

          You have to be pretty messed up to kill 2 people in cold blood, if I could find they are dead\dying or in a different country my feelings would be more allayed I suppose.

          • grr1701 on 10/09/2023 - 10:13
            +3

            @SupeNintendoChalmers: Do some research on the circumstances of the murders and murderer. It might set you mind at ease. OR you might choose not to buy the property.

            • SupeNintendoChalmers on 10/09/2023 - 13:24
              +2

              @grr1701: Getting court records tomorrow so will be more informed.

              I think I also need to contact Corrections as well to ascertain status of person, but from what I'm reading there are pretty strong privacy protections for former prisoners, unless they've done things like diddle kids.

              • ozchappy on 18/09/2023 - 19:06

                @SupeNintendoChalmers: What if the murderer was religeous? Then you're (profanity) - maybe even more so if you buy the house.

        • Lastchancetosee on 10/09/2023 - 09:36
          +3

          Gaol is the anglicism, and is still in current use.

          Agree re time.

          • GrueHunter on 10/09/2023 - 11:33
            -8

            @Lastchancetosee: Gaol is not the "Anglicism". It's a French word, and so is "jail". Gaol (and gaiole, gayole and even gayhole) were Old Norman spellings. Jail was Parisian.

            Just admit you use it because you think it makes you sound more like a free-thinking, contrarian Uhstrayin. (It doesn't: it makes you look like a boomer who whines about youth crime but also thinks Ned Kelly stickers are awesome.)

            • try2bhelpful on 10/09/2023 - 11:40

              @GrueHunter: Apparently state governments now run 'correctional facilities' so there is a case to argue that neither is correct.

            • larndis on 10/09/2023 - 18:31
              +9

              @GrueHunter: @GrueHunter Very weird thing to have a chip on your shoulder about mate

            • Lastchancetosee on 11/09/2023 - 14:32
              +1

              @GrueHunter: What a peculiar set of inferences from a small post.

              While both terms are French in origin, the British and early Australian usage has been gaol. See https://www.adelaidegaol.sa.gov.au/

              FWIW The formal French term for gaol or jail, if you wish, is 'prison'.

          • SupeNintendoChalmers on 10/09/2023 - 13:03

            @Lastchancetosee: I'm not old… Well maybe I am to some here.

            I didn't know jail was the mainstream spelling for gaol until around 12, so I guess it's hard coded.

      • shxhshzhz on 09/09/2023 - 19:06
        +3

        Have you found anything about the case, like old news articles or something somewhere linked to the address? If it's giving you doubts, just leave it. Buy a different house and live there in peace.

        • SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 19:10
          +3

          I found an article on a newspaper, but don't want to share because it might dox me or the agent\sellers and I dont want this to happen.

          More interested in not the deed, but the aftermath.

          Buy a different house and live there in peace.

          I guess, but it makes you wonder before the legislation how many people have unwittingly purchased a murder\rape\meth house?

          • Assburg on 12/09/2023 - 13:27

            @SupeNintendoChalmers: Used to live in a meth lab post-reno. Would never have thought about it if it hadn't been told to me by the landlord. We both thought it was pretty funny and are still in touch though, we're probably weirder than normal people

            What you have OP, is a classic case of needing to ask yourself the Theseus Ship problem. If the house is renovated, new people with no connection to the people who lived there a generation ago live there now, is it really the same house? The money you save can be spent doing up parts of it once you get ahead on your repayments.

            I'd argue no

      • Caped Baldy on 09/09/2023 - 23:36
        +2

        If anything, it's less likely for another homicide to occur there now.

      • Dslrfirst on 10/09/2023 - 09:54

        Why don't you find out?

    • serpserpserp on 10/09/2023 - 09:52
      +3

      What would the murderer want from you anyway?

      Maybe they want to recreate the murder at the 25th anniversary?

      • AustriaBargain on 11/09/2023 - 21:37
        +2

        Just AirBnB the house on that night.

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 09/09/2023 - 19:02
    +34

    [Marge is showing Maude and Ned the murder house]

    Ned Flanders:
    Oh, my-diddly-eye! Will you look at this place. And the price has been slashed repeatedly!

    Maude Flanders:
    It's sure built solid. The kids could scream bloody murder and no one would hear.

    Ned Flanders:
    Well, I'm just going to spill my guts. I love it to death. I'm going to give you a deposit this minute.

    • Jimothy Wongingtons on 09/09/2023 - 19:03
      +1

      Also do you believe in ghosts , op?

      • SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 19:07
        -1

        I don't per se, but Mrs Chalmers also gets say on the matter. Ideologically I should believe in spirits, but then that opens the can of worms about people like those with schizophrenia , OCD, ASD etc, are they possessed by evil spirits? I refuse to believe this.

        • garetz on 09/09/2023 - 22:30
          +5

          Why does one thing have to be related to the other ? Spirits can exist and not be responsible for all the mental health problems of all the people in the world.

          • SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 22:36

            @garetz: Fair enough, a couple possibilities here

            1. Spirits don't exist
            2. Spirits Exist
            3. Spirits exists and they are responsible for some of the bad things in the world.
            4. Spirits exists and they are responsible for all of the bad things in the world.
            5. Spirits exists and they are responsible for some of the good things in the world.
            6. Spirits exists and they are responsible for all of the good things in the world.
            7. Spirits exists and they are responsible for some of the good and bad things in the world.
            8. Spirits exists and they are responsible for all of the good and bad things in the world.
            • garetz on 09/09/2023 - 23:09
              +5

              @SupeNintendoChalmers: Anything is possible, does not mean it is probable. You can extrapolate cause and effects but just theorising the possibility does not mean its a fact.

              Correlation does not equal causation.

            • lewislardboy on 13/09/2023 - 10:21

              @SupeNintendoChalmers: Overarching question — do spirits exist inside or outside of people? If it's inside — the fact a murder happened at a location is not of much consequence. If the murderer is still lurking in the basement… then it's an issue.

      • Gunnar on 10/09/2023 - 09:16
        +9

        Specifically ghosts at this time of year. At this time of day. In this part of the country. Localized entirely within the OP’s kitchen.

    • AustriaBargain on 09/09/2023 - 19:05

      Hue hue hue, I would have posted the time stamped YouTube club, but we basically are of the same mind.

  • AustriaBargain on 09/09/2023 - 19:04
    +15

    No I wouldn't because I can't afford to buy a house.

    • [Deactivated] on 09/09/2023 - 19:08
      +4

      All those small appliances add up

      • AustriaBargain on 09/09/2023 - 19:11

        Even if I saved all the the money from all the xboxes and mixers and all sorts of machines and gadgets I buy, I wouldn't be anywhere near the deposit needed for a house. Besides I think the drama of sharing a house is starting to grow on me. If I wasn't pissed off at housemates for not cleaning then I would probably just find something else to stress about anyway..

        • [Deactivated] on 09/09/2023 - 19:14

          Save yourself from any bickering with housemates over cleaning & get the cleaners in.

          • AustriaBargain on 09/09/2023 - 19:19

            @[Deactivated]: At the moment it's timed so the partner of the one who won't clean does the cleaning the week before my week comes up. So she has to clean two weeks worth of caked on mess. But at a certain point if she stops cleaning too then the arguments over making them clean is going to be less effort than cleaning up after both of them. I refuse to start doing his share of the cleaning. It took him months to notice I stopped using the filtered water dispenser, he'd leave it empty just assuming that my own need for filtered water would mean I'd do it for him. This is despite already telling him that I've stopped using It and he can put it in his bedroom if he wants. Like are we sharing a house, or am I running a hotel, jeeezus.

            • [Deactivated] on 09/09/2023 - 19:25
              +1

              @AustriaBargain: That poor cleaning girl - why does she do that?

  • [Deactivated] on 09/09/2023 - 19:12
    +4

    Have you googled the address?

    Go to the library & look up the local papers from ~20 years ago to get the details so you can check up on the status of the murderers as they may have carked it by now.

    Also, get your priest/witch in to exorcise any bad juju from the homicide victims.

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 19:15

      Also, get your priest/witch in to exorcise any bad juju from the homicide victims.

      Not into this, I mean wouldn't the priest\rabbi\iman\witch have to literally throw holy water\incantations etc on every square foot of land in this country, or indeed any nation with trauma, war and the like?

      • [Deactivated] on 09/09/2023 - 19:16

        Witches do

      • Morien on 09/09/2023 - 19:45
        +2

        Well, you make a valid point.

        But doesn't that mean that you shouldn't ever buy a house that is located in this country?

        I get you are concerned about the murderer returning… but I think you're overthinking it.

        According to Australian Institute of Criminology, in their 2019-20 report

        The rates of domestic and acquaintance homicide were both 0.32 per 100,000, while the stranger homicide rate was 0.18 per 100,000.

        Furthermore,

        Of the 261 homicide incidents, 81 were domestic homicides (31%), 83 were acquaintance homicides (32%) and 46 were stranger homicides (18%)

        Assuming numbers aren't drastically different in all other years, I'd say you're about as safe living there as anyone is living anywhere (except the NT, according to that report). You're probably more likely to get killed by interest rates than you are by the murderer from 20 years ago.

        Maybe just give it a once over with a UV light to see if they have painted over any messages written in blood that say "see you in 21 years."

      • afoveht on 09/09/2023 - 21:29

        wouldn't the priest\rabbi\iman\witch have to literally throw holy water\incantations etc on every square foot of land

        I went to a funeral this week at a Catholic Church. One most interesting find was the holy water at the entrance was in those automatic sanitizer dispensing things you put your hand under. Not being a member I didn't try but was further told later that they actually put sanitizer in there - so it's actually holy sanitizer now. Judging by this openness to adjust i suspect you could just organize a full house wash and have the local priest attend - give him his fee for waving his wand and doing his magic on the water / detergent.

        • SupeNintendoChalmers on 10/09/2023 - 15:39

          actually put sanitizer in there - so it's actually holy sanitizer now

          Unclean vampires have no chance now!

  • franco cozzo on 09/09/2023 - 19:15
    +11

    whatever you do dont go digging under the house…

  • Tee Rex Arms on 09/09/2023 - 19:33

    Yeah kids would love to find that out and have them pissing the bed every night

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 19:40
      -2

      Why would you wish to disclose this to children?

      • mskeggs on 09/09/2023 - 22:06
        +1

        When the kid at school when they are 8yro starts saying "Little Lisa lives in the murder house".

        • SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 23:07
          +3

          Fair point, didn't think that, but yes there would still be locals with children or grandchildren who remember the house.

  • WreckTangle on 09/09/2023 - 20:01

    The last two owners have lived peacefully in the house. Of course the murderer I was probably in jail. He’s probably getting paroled soon…

    • Sammy2000 on 09/09/2023 - 22:22
      +1

      Did they? Or was it awful and no one would buy it because of the homicide? How long was it previously on the market?

  • AndyC1 on 09/09/2023 - 20:01
    +6

    Even more bargaining power to lower the price.

    • mskeggs on 09/09/2023 - 22:08
      +1

      I have an acquaintance that got a good deal on a murder house that had sat on the market.
      15 years later she sold for the normal price for a non-murder house.

    • boretentsu on 15/09/2023 - 06:36

      "For, say, $50k less, I might be able to forget the murders. Deal?"

  • FireRunner on 09/09/2023 - 20:10
    +5

    Should be fine, just don't go into the basement

  • brendanm on 09/09/2023 - 20:36
    +2

    Who cares, lots of people have died in lots of houses, the manner of death doesn't change anything. I'd make a low ball offer on it because lots of people are weird about these things.

    • SupeNintendoChalmers on 09/09/2023 - 20:40

      This is where I'm leaning atm, however trying to ascertain if the law has an expiry date for each case.

      Lets say for example I purchase the property and live in it for the next 40 years, does it mean upon sale I need to disclose a murder took place in this home 60+ years ago? That would seem ludicrous, and effectively makes the house a "marked\cursed" house.

      • pegaxs on 09/09/2023 - 22:02
        +2

        To give you an idea, there was a house sold in Malvern not so long ago that was subject to these new laws and the agent had to notify prospective buyers that a young boy died on the site and was later buried at the house…

        This happened in 1925. Almost 100 years ago. So, I would say, yes, even if 60 years has passed, it would still need to be noted (unless laws change in that time). There does not appear to be any time limit mentioned in the legislation.

        • derrida derider on 11/09/2023 - 14:41
          -1

          An illustration of just what an utterly stupid law that is.
          Pretty much any older house will have had one or more deaths in it, and it is even more certain that the house is built on land that has had an aboriginal death on it (a lot can happen in 50,000 years).

    • johnno07 on 11/09/2023 - 07:37

      lots of people are weird about these things.

      Yeah and the OP is one of them.

  • morse on 09/09/2023 - 20:44
    -1

    Only buy if you love (and I mean love, a lot) the property - and the history will not get to you.

    Realistically we’re all living on stolen land with questionable history as it is
    .

    • larndis on 10/09/2023 - 19:33
      +2

      I guess some ozbargainers do not like to be reminded of this, precious little snowflakes

  • dandosr on 09/09/2023 - 21:03

    My sister almost purchased a house in Sydney where the family held it for exactly 10 years to not have to disclose the homicide that had occurred in it. Her mother in law searched the address and found articles. When they asked the estate agent, they said take it or leave it. Sold for asking.

    • star-ggg on 09/09/2023 - 21:14

      the price might be negotiable

      Sydney

      ^^ the location makes a huge difference. If you don't want a property in Sydney, somebody else definitely does (if the asking price isn't ridiculous)

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