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Lenovo Legion Pro 5 Laptop: AMD Ryzen 7-7745HX, 16" QHD+ 240hz, RTX 4060 8GB, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD $2069 Delivered @ Lenovo AU

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Lenovo Legion Pro 5 Laptop: AMD Ryzen 7-7745HX, 16" QHD+ 240hz, RTX 4060 8GB, 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD $2069 Delivered @ Lenovo AUAffiliate
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Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 16:02 lenovo.com (3150 clicks)
Last edited 13/09/2023 - 18:47 by 2 other users
SPRING
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Should be 1768$ after 16% cashback. Killer pricing for a L5P in 2023 considering the state of things. Can also consider upgrade to 32GB DDR5 RAM for only 69$. Wouldnt consider the 59$ upgrade on the stroage for 512GB though, given how much ssd have seen discounts for.

Now with advanced optimus (or was it on the 2022 sku as well?) which means unlike a static mux switch, there is no need to restart your laptop to enable or to disable optimus. As always, gaming laptops dont have good battery life, and certainly arent portable.

A note about the specs here. Unlike previous AMD cpu equipped gaming laptops, the 7745HX - amds dragon ridge line of processors - uses desktop chips, in this case, you can treat it as a delidded 7700X in BGA tuned for running at lower wattage. Battery life is much worse than the zen3 & zen3+ chips you may have used (no matter if its a -H, -HS or -HX). The 4060 in here uses the same die as the desktop 4060 with no cut downs, however, do note this runs at lower wattage - while desktop 4060 can keep at the ~115w. Laptop 4060, despite being advertised as (and not to lenovos fault), as 140w (115w base + 25w dynamic boost), will really not boost past 100w due to Nvidia locking the voltage on the mobile cards - this also applies to the mobile 4070.

For those that wanted good battery life (as in, like the older AMD mobile chips) and some better portability, go with the Legion Slim 5 7840HS/4060/QHD+ 165hz/16/1TB for $1949 or $1637.16 after cashback.

For those that wanted a well built budget rig, go with the LOQ 13420H/4050/QHD165hz/16/512 for $1489 or $1250.76 after cashback.

Specs:

  • Processor

AMD Ryzen™ 7 7745HX Processor (3.60 GHz up to 5.10 GHz)

  • Operating System

Windows 11 Home 64

  • Microsoft Productivity Software

Microsoft Office Trial

  • Memory

16 GB DDR5-5200MHz (SODIMM) - (2 x 8 GB)

  • First Solid State Drive

512 GB SSD M.2 2280 PCIe Gen4 TLC

  • Display

16" WQXGA (2560 x 1600), IPS, Anti-Glare, Non-Touch, HDR 400, 100%sRGB, 500 nits, 240Hz, Narrow Bezel, Low Blue Light

  • Graphic Card

NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4060 Laptop GPU 8GB GDDR6

  • Camera

1080P FHD with Dual Microphone

  • Color

Onyx Grey

  • Keyboard

4 Zone RGB Backlit, Black - English

  • Wireless

Wi-Fi 6E 2x2 AX & Bluetooth® 5.1 or above

  • Battery

4 Cell Li-Polymer 80Wh

  • Power Cord

300W Slim 3pin AC Adapter - ANZ

  • Warranty

1 Year Courier or Carry-in

Computing 16inch Computer Gaming Laptop Laptop Lenovo

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closed Comments

  • cook99 on 13/09/2023 - 16:13
    +6

    I always appreciate your comments and knowledge around laptops and all the Legion deals, thanks sharing as always mate.
    What is your view on upgrade to 4070 for $339?

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 16:23
      +6

      You are looking at about 21% gains at 1440p. If we are using the 2069$ base price so its 14% extra for 21% performance so not too bad?

      • cook99 on 13/09/2023 - 18:52

        Thanks, yes seems not a bad upgrade.
        One more question before I go down a YouTube rabbit hole, I was looking at last year's 7 vs 5 as and liked the 7 better because of a few cosmetic upgrades , I think better heating but nothing major.
        This year the 7 seems to have nerfed a bunch of the fruit, do you think the 5 Pro is closer to the 'worse' 7 we've seen now? I.e. has it closed the gap between the 2 at all?

        • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 19:22
          +1

          The main cut downs the L7P saw was mainly the cosmetic side fo things. And overall, yes the difference between the two is smaller than previous years.

          The cooling as you mentioned - the vapor chamber in the Pro 7 - still sets it a much higher bar from the Pro 5. However this is certainly overkill as the 4060 & 4070 which only ramps up to 100w this year so doesnt require much cooling anyways.

    • ObsureSeafood on 13/09/2023 - 17:26

      Just letting you know, it was $200 for the upgrade around a week ago.

      • cook99 on 13/09/2023 - 18:55

        Cheeky buggers!

  • johnkash on 13/09/2023 - 16:15
    +2

    I like the screen but RTX 4060 in a laptop though….

  • MarioBros on 13/09/2023 - 16:21
    +3

    Finally a good laptop! ;) but I bought the Acer Nitro 16, Ryzen 5 7640HS rtx4050…..little over 1k….I think it's absolutely unbeatable at that price. Everything is great as well !! Temperatures, screen, super fast SSD !! It's just amazing

    • StaticzAvenger on 13/09/2023 - 16:34

      Where can you find it for little over 1k? I'm seeing 1.5k and above

    • CyberMurning on 13/09/2023 - 16:36
      +1

      dont tell me you are using it to play mario bros :)

      • MarioBros on 13/09/2023 - 16:37
        +2

        …. something like that ..lol

        • Caped Baldy on 13/09/2023 - 17:03
          +2

          Nintendon'ts lawyers are about to send you a letter hahaha

    • leiiv on 13/09/2023 - 18:51

      Assuming that cashback is successful and you get the Legion slim 5 for $1637. Is the difference between R5 + 4050 vs R7 + 4060 worth much less than $500?

      • MarioBros on 13/09/2023 - 18:59

        Bro I don't need to game with it anyway….so for me 500 difference is huge…. for something I don't need. R7 is more powerful multi core only.

        • leiiv on 13/09/2023 - 19:06
          +3

          Huh I don't get it. If it is not for gaming, why not get a much cheaper laptop withoit dedicated gpu?

          • MarioBros on 13/09/2023 - 19:07

            @leiiv: Much cheaper than 1099??? Impossible with that specs… ;) trust me. Unless you buy garbage Intel toaster….

  • RedHab on 13/09/2023 - 16:33
    +1

    Fantastic write-up, OP!

  • BelieveBecome on 13/09/2023 - 16:39

    How hard is it to get one of these with Windows Pro pre-installed or how easy is it to upgrade one of these from Home to Pro post delivery?
    Need a new work laptop with Pro to suit our systems.

    • stinkychicken on 13/09/2023 - 16:42

      It's super simple to turn home into pro, just change the product key to a win 10/11 pro key in the activation settings area and after a single reboot you have pro installed.

    • Natedogg on 13/09/2023 - 16:45

      You can spec it that way from lenovo its a $120 cost to upgrade. Probably cheaper ways to do it.

      • BelieveBecome on 13/09/2023 - 16:48

        Thanks - probably should have checked the process!

    • FeZZa21 on 13/09/2023 - 17:18
      +1

      very easy via a script on github

  • kev98 on 13/09/2023 - 16:45

    Is it a waste getting something like this if it’s only used primarily for AutoCad and general word processing ?

    If laptop is not using video card does it just use onboard graphics or it will always use video card and subsequently use more energy?

    • Wicko on 13/09/2023 - 16:56
      +1

      It's a bit overkill unless you're a hard CAD user, but if you're just working with drawings I would go for a cheaper laptop with just a strong cpu

      • Korban Dallas on 13/09/2023 - 22:54

        I didn't think anyone uses autocad these days.

        Great laptop for 3d renders.

        • alterego13 on 13/09/2023 - 23:58
          +1

          You'd be surprised how many offices still use AutoCAD.

          While on topic, this vs. the Lenovo LOQ i5 with RTX 4050?
          Uses - AutoCAD, sketchup, ArchiCAD, Revit and Twinmotion. Mostly designing and drafting, occasional rendering. Residential and small commercial stuff.

          TIA

          • Brrrrt on 21/09/2023 - 12:48
            +2

            @alterego13: Hard to say, I think this is a case of 'if you want an even smoother experience, go for the higher spec' but its not as if the cheaper one wouldnt run the stuff you need it to just fine.

            Taking a look at recommended specs, Autocad asks for 2gb vram gpu as minimum, but 8gb vram card as recommended, twinmotion askes for >6gb vram gpus, archi lists a >2gb vram gpu for small residential projects but medium sized apartment and commerical buildings askes for 4gb vram.

            Interestingly both autocad and archi askes for 32gb ram and twinmotion askes for >16gb ram, so maybe thats a bigger factor here? I had a look at the other software you listed but they seem to be able to run on a potato and a half.

            @kev98 not sure if its any help. What current specs are you running autocad on and how 'smooth' is it? I understand there isnt quite a benchmark we can use, but maybe use that as a baseline.

  • Natedogg on 13/09/2023 - 16:49

    Also the upgrade to 3 year onsite support is only like ~$84, for those who think its worth the price for convenience

  • jacknguyen912 on 13/09/2023 - 16:52

    sorry for the noob question but is Legion a good laptop. I use thinkpad for work and it is pretty good. I want something for personal use with occassional gaming

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 17:15
      +2

      Yes. You can check jarrods tech or other good review sites or past deals on ozb for legion laptops. Legion lineup is very well rated.

  • dumadiscount on 13/09/2023 - 16:55

    Is this a good option for a gaming laptop for an 11 year old who will use it for predominantly Roblox but will try out other steam games?

    I would also like to use to play BeamNG with my younger son who is into monster trucks.

    Or is one of the other laptops in the writeup a better option?

    Thanks, a laptop newbie!

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 17:14
      +1

      Both roblox and beamng arent that hardware heavy so you can get by with all three machines :)

      Of course if you or your son wishes to get into other games later on like say cod warzone or something. Then yeah better hardware is needed.

      • Ordinance on 13/09/2023 - 17:28
        +1

        This machine should be more than capable of running all modern titles at medium / high settings at least, particularly with DLSS enabled. In fact, its specs roughly align with the 'Competitive Specifications' (specs to run at a high FPS for use with a high refresh monitor) for Warzone 2.

        • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 17:33
          +2

          Yeah i gotcha, perhaps I should worded that reply better, I wasnt trying to say he needed more than a 4060 for warzone, but that compared to roblox where a 4050 LOQ is overkill, games such as warzone would definitely prefer the legions here with a beefy cpu and 4060.

  • Raj09 on 13/09/2023 - 17:03

    Brilliant laptop

  • Kraidoz on 13/09/2023 - 17:07

    Thoughts on getting the Slim 7i instead of the Slim 5?

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 17:30
      +1

      Depends on you. Its a more sturdy & premium build and intel vs AMD for an extra 800$. You gain some performance wise but lose out on battery life.

  • CrispyChrispy on 13/09/2023 - 17:30
    +1

    Thoughts on this vs Dell G15? The G15 drops down a bit with the 4% cashback. Cheers.

    • kev98 on 13/09/2023 - 17:31
      +1

      Interested as well.

      This config is $1,578 with student discount:

      Processor
      AMD Ryzen™7 7840HS, 24 MB Cache, 8 Core, up to 5.1 GHz
      Operating System
      Windows 11 Home, English
      Video Card
      NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 4060, 8 GB GDDR6
      Memory
      16 GB, 2 x 8 GB, DDR5, 4800 MHz
      Hard Drive
      512 GB, M.2, PCIe NVMe, SSD
      LCD
      15.6" FHD (1920x1080) 165Hz, 3ms, sRGB-100%, ComfortViewPlus, NVIDIA G-SYNC+DDS Display

      • CrispyChrispy on 13/09/2023 - 17:49

        Do you have a link to that specific config? Thanks!

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 17:39
      +3

      Thats a bit better price to performance wise, but not without downsides of its own.

      You are looking at a lower specced panel and this machine is really heavy (2.8-2.9kg, without the charging brick). Storage upgrade is also an issue, check out in this review.

      If cashrewards is nice to us and everyone can get their cashback fine, I would say Legion Slim 5 over this considering similiar pricepoint and near identical specs but better screen and portability.

      @kev98

    • rdmx on 13/09/2023 - 17:47
      +1

      The screen on the Dell is going to be one of the key differences.

      If it's the same panel as the 165hz FHD G15 2022 https://youtu.be/T8EzGLfRdiI?t=1348
      Compared to the 240hz panel in the Legion Pro 5 https://youtu.be/UkAILBRHRpY?t=859 (video is for the Legion Pro 5i but it should be the same panel)

      The screen on the legion pro 5 is much higher res (2560x1600 vs 1920x1080) and has a noticeably better response time.

      Be sure to try and research the screen as it seems to be one of the primary things that gets cheapened out on when comparing laptops of similar specs — I won't make that mistake again!

    • abctoz on 13/09/2023 - 19:16

      Dell are so slow to release lol

      I trust Lenovo build quality more, and dell makes me feel old idk

      But price is tempting

  • sirkevinz on 13/09/2023 - 17:38
    -1

    hi how to get that 16% cashback, i tried but nothing happened

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 17:54
      +2

      Follow this deal posting mate, go into cashrewards and it explains how the cashback process works.

  • L00kingforbestdeals on 13/09/2023 - 17:39

    Will cashrewards accept SPRING code ? Just not sure if I should take the risk with no cashback tracked

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 17:40
      +2

      Yes.

      Cashback is eligible on codes generated by Lenovo on its website, even though they may not be listed on Cashrewards, provided last click before purchase is from Cashrewards.

  • assarabbiya on 13/09/2023 - 17:46

    could you upgrade this to 4090 to result in ~3.3k mark to match the Omen deal?

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 17:51
      +1

      this goes to a 4070 only.

      legion pro 7i goes to a 4090 but would be costing well into 4-5k.

      • assarabbiya on 13/09/2023 - 18:54

        more reason to kick myself for missing the deal :D thanks!

        • Guybrush57 on 13/09/2023 - 21:04

          4090 Omen was ~$2800 earlier this year.

          Sorry for your loss.

  • DeeTrance on 13/09/2023 - 17:55

    Just ordered this for $2499

    https://www.lenovo.com/au/en/p/laptops/yoga/yoga-pro-series/yoga-pro-9i-gen-8-(14-inch-intel)/83bucto1wwau3

    • sridhar on 13/09/2023 - 19:36

      It's got some great reviews on YouTube.

    • Nefe on 14/09/2023 - 02:17

      This was $2299 with all upgrades available a few weeks ago

  • abctoz on 13/09/2023 - 18:01

    This was cheaper with the 15% off cash rewards a while back

    Pretty great for productivity a bit on the heavier side

    • sridhar on 13/09/2023 - 18:17
      +1

      CR is now 16% until 10pm AEST.

  • sarakoth on 13/09/2023 - 18:10
    +1

    Shame that the upgrade on the slim to 32GB RAM (which states only $69 extra and therefore I thought worthwhile) also adds the 4070 GPU and therefore secretly another $370 odd to the price.. don't need the 4070 but 16GB of RAM seems a bit low.

    • sonome on 13/09/2023 - 23:25

      Agree. Took me ages to work out what was happening as well, couldn't figure out why the price was suddenly so much higher.

      Oh well, guess I'll just install some extra ram myself.

      • sarakoth on 14/09/2023 - 11:52
        +1

        According to @Brrrrt (below) the RAM is soldered on unfortunately. I would have jumped on this is I reckon if it was 32GB RAM for only $69 and not could stay on the 4060.

        • sonome on 14/09/2023 - 14:21

          I had missed that comment - not a fan of anything soldered, but I've already purchased. I'll be able to live with 16gb (though 32gb for $69 more would've been perfect!).

          • Brrrrt on 14/09/2023 - 15:36
            +1

            @sonome: @sarakoth

            @sonome

            hey lads, sorry for the confusion, I misremembered the slim 5 with another machine. there is indeed two sodimm slots for upgrade, which just makes lenovos force upgrade to gpu alongside the ram being no more than a forced upsale.

            it is still annoying though, as the ram here is 2*8 meaning to upgrade to 32gb you need to buy two 16gb sticks yourself and replace the stock one, I would highely doubt you can sell these for much or any money to recoup the costs neither.

            • sonome on 14/09/2023 - 16:17

              @Brrrrt: Thanks Brrrrt, appreciate your knowledge as always!

        • iPodVideo on 14/09/2023 - 20:42

          I think they're talking about the Slim 5 16 which has socketed RAM. I can confirm that adding 32GB of RAM in the configurator adds the 4070 too.

          • Brrrrt on 14/09/2023 - 23:01

            @iPodVideo: The 16' Legion slim 5/7/9 all get sodimm slots mate, its only the 14' model that doesnt.

  • sarakoth on 13/09/2023 - 18:11

    How does this compare to deals via the education portal… do the also have the cashrewards? I need something for my daughter so I could theoretically get her to create an education account with her school email I think.

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 18:14
      +1

      edu store dont get cashback. I just checked for ya, price is actually worse right now even excluding cashback.

      dont hurt to make an account for future sales, but for now. not really.

      If you want a gaming laptop for your daugher and maybe for her to take to hs classes as well, I would probably consider the slim over the pro. difference in battery life is night and day.

      • sarakoth on 13/09/2023 - 18:19

        Thanks.. I was thinking the same.. daughter is possibly going to uni to do graphics design, possibly coding and games design, so wanted something beefy but not ridiculous.. she struggled to encode her Yr 12 media project in Premier pro on her current (7 year old) laptop.
        Hence why I thought 32GB would be good… battery life will be important for uni I reckon.

        • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 18:27

          ah right. yeah thats a common upsale they do, because ram on the slim is soldered, so they pair the higher ram alongside the higher tiered gpu.

          and yes would definitely consider the slim, and in specific these ryzen -HS phoenix chips for best in class battery life (for a gaming laptop, of course).

  • FBI on 13/09/2023 - 18:13
    +2

    Appreciate the write up and answers to the questions OP🙏

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 18:16
      +1

      :) always happy to help

  • ASR-Briggs on 13/09/2023 - 18:45
    +1

    Just checking my maths here. Would it not be $1768 after cashback? Cashback is obviously not applicable on the GST component.
    2069/1.1= $1880.91 (pre GST price)
    1880.91*0.84= $1579.96 (after taking off 16% of non-GST price)
    1579.96+188.09= $1768.05 (add back in GST component).

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 18:47
      +1

      You are probably right. Im just going base price *0.84 here. Will edit it per your calculations cheers.

      • ASR-Briggs on 13/09/2023 - 18:51
        -1

        Am I a hero? I really can't say. But yes.
        Also, I did the calcs on the 4070 model (way more interested in that one). Comes down to $2144.05 (pre any modifications). Good deal? Has it been lower?

        • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 19:08

          To my knowledge, no. Should be best price here.

      • shackb on 13/09/2023 - 21:21
        +1

        Thanks very much Brrrrt, just replaced an old and failing thinkpad. I haven't used cashrewards before but FWIW I just bought the laptop from OP + upgrade to 32gb ram ($69) + upgrade to 1tb ssd ($59) + upgrade to 3YR onsite warranty ($85) = total $2283 inc. GST.
        $2283 x 16% = $365.28
        Just received email from cashrewards that refund of $365.28 is pending, not sure if this will be adjusted down to exclude GST.
        This will bring my total down to $1,917.72.

        For anyone else unfamiliar with cashrewards I installed the google chrome Notifier addon from their website which was helpful.

  • CharityCase on 13/09/2023 - 18:45

    any decent gaming desktop deals?

    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 19:09

      I reckon testfast often do them desktop deals. not lenovo though. price is not great.

    • abctoz on 13/09/2023 - 19:19

      Gaming desktops aren’t going to be a thing anymore at the rate laptops are improving

      The screen on laptops are still useless tho too small for serious work/gaming

  • On1 on 13/09/2023 - 18:53

    Wish there’s a deal for 4080 / 4090 laptops…

    • tek on 13/09/2023 - 19:28

      See my post below on Legion Pro 7i…. was initially looking at waiting for black Friday but am now seriously tempted

  • shabaka on 13/09/2023 - 18:57

    would have been an amazing deal to jump on

    a year ago

    now I built a gaming desktop and got Xbox Series X as well

    no more gaming laptops for me! this is awesome deal however

    • abctoz on 13/09/2023 - 19:22

      I would have built one but prices are atrocious lol

      • shabaka on 13/09/2023 - 20:22
        +1

        30x0 generation was my bet, 3070 will ride me out fine until 50x0 gen artives. hopefully NVIDIA comes to its senses by then.

        nothing in 40x0 generation worth getting IMO

        • abctoz on 13/09/2023 - 20:28

          Don’t know much about Gpus, the 4060 frame generation wasn’t that impressive made cyberpunk look like minecraft lol

          best of luck

  • MarioBros on 13/09/2023 - 19:06
    +1

    Anyone knows if this warranty will be working overseas?

    • iPodVideo on 14/09/2023 - 20:49

      Not 100% sure but I think Lenovo only has international warranty on ThinkPad products.

  • tek on 13/09/2023 - 19:26
    +2

    Thanks for post - I am weighing up the Legion Pro 7i (16", Gen 8, RTX 4080) for $3216 after cashback. Lenovo website also mentions a bonus $150 in Lenovo rewards which should provide a total Lenovo reward value of ~$224 (i.e. $150 bonus + $74 base). Pretty sure this is valid regardless of Cashrewards. All in all if you have a use for the Lenovo credit the laptop should be below $3k (plus any applicable tax deductions if also used for work?) which whilst is a lot of money seems to be good value for an RTX4080 laptop.

  • Maglia Nera on 13/09/2023 - 19:45

    Opinions on how much better this laptop is vs my current 4.5 year old MSI Gs65 8se-053au 15.6"" Core I7 Stealth Notebook (Specs below)

    GS65-STEALTH-8SE-053AU
    Brand MSI
    Screen Size (Inches) 15.60 Inch
    CPU Series Intel Core i7
    GPU Series GeForce RTX 2060
    Total RAM Installed 16 GB
    Storage Size (HDD) N/A
    Storage Size (SSD) 256 GB
    Processor Coffeelake i7-8750H+HM370
    Ram/Memory DDR4 16GB (2666MHz)
    Operating System Windows 10 Home Advanced without ODD
    Graphics NVIDIA® GeForce RTX™ 2060 with 6GB GDDR6
    Screen Size 15.6" FHD (1920*1080), IPS-Level 144Hz 72%NTSC Thin Bezel, 100%sRGB
    Storage 256GB NVMe PCIe Gen3x4 SSD
    Network Killer Wireless-AC 1550i (2*2 a/c)
    Bluetooth V5.0
    Optical Drive N/A
    Ports 1x Type-C (USB3.1 Gen2 / DP / Thunderbolt™3); 3x Type-A USB3.1
    Audio 2x 2W Speaker
    Webcam HD type (30fps@720p)
    Battery 4 cell , 82Whr
    Dimensions & Weight 357.7 x 247.7 x 17.9 mm (WxDxH) | 1.9kg
    • Brrrrt on 13/09/2023 - 20:58
      +1

      3060 is about 30-40% faster than a 2060. 4060 is about 15% faster on top of the 3060.

      CPU jump is larger in that regard. Much newer process node even ignoring more cores, and large L3 cache - 32mb vs 9mb only.

      • ChatCPT on 14/09/2023 - 10:54

        So youre saying 4060 is 50-61% better than 2060?

    • abctoz on 13/09/2023 - 21:00

      I used a similar cpu 4core version, they’ll turbo to 4ghz but sustained goes down to 2.2ghz which is ass

      The new and laptops will sustain around 4ghz and with 8cores so you’re looking at double cpu performance for sustained loads

      Gpu is easy go search for benchmarks

    • Ryxxi on 13/09/2023 - 23:08

      This is pretty big. That 8700 intel cpu is like really bad.. Better screen too.

  • Kegsta on 13/09/2023 - 20:30

    My one of these just arrived the other day as my new work laptop for traveling. It had about a month lead time, haven't played any games on it yet but build quality seems great compared to the old dell G5SE space heater i had previously that crapped itself just outside warranty.

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