Tesla got another price drop this Monday and those Model 3 are in stock at the moment. If you don't want to wait for the new 2024 version and wish to take the price benefit + government rebate, then give it a go.
The NSW EV stamp duty free and rebate will end by the end of this year. So, if you are looking for those benefits then must be quick.
I know this is a taboo topic in Australia politics even I have no idea why that is the case.
Because lefties are stupid.
It sounds crass but it's easy to demonstrate.
@mountaineer: the business case just does not stack up when compared with renewables. its a lame duck. LNP are only trying to push it to delay the switch away from fossil fuels.
the business case just does not stack up when compared with renewables.
Show us this business case? Or did you just invent this in your head?
Let's use a quick example, how much does it cost to generate 1kWh of solar energy when it's cloudy or dark?
How much does it cost to generate 1kWh of wind energy when the wind stops blowing?
Are you prepared to live in a world where the electricity can randomly drop out multiple times for hours at a time each day? Because most people aren't
LNP are only trying to push it to delay the switch away from fossil fuels.
What a wonderful world it must be in your head. In you world view, the LNP are goblins that live under a mountain that eat coal while devising ways to destroy civilisation? Or could it be that they've thought about the problem a little bit more than the average stinky hippie, and worked out as any fool with a calculator can that solar and wind can never be a complete solution for a nation's energy infrastructure, so you will always need something else more reliable to fill the gaps when renewables stop generating as they always do throughout the day?
The choices on the table of reliable energy supplies for Australia are coal, gas, or nuclear, and nuclear is the cleanest, even cleaner than renewables. So which of those do you prefer?
@1st-Amendment: "…LNP are goblins that live under a mountain that eat coal while devising ways to destroy civilisation?" haha, I hope my colleagues enjoyed my chortling.
@codaroma: I would have loved to see OZ act like adults and receive spent nuclear fuel back here for storage. The next generation of reactors would potentially mean processed fuel ready for power generation.
The economics are nowhere near the mark yet, and I sense that by the time they are we will be so vested in renewables it won’t be relevant any more.
L NP are fully aware of this, but keep mouthing off as they know they need to keep their stupid faces on TV to pretend theyre relevant.
Solar is heavily subsidised too - which is why so many companies want to invest in it. It's a gravy train for them.
You think a tiny engine in a car burning petrol is more efficient than a billion dollar dedicated generator?
@AustriaBargain: Its not the thermal efficiency that's important. Of course a huge power plant is more thermally efficient than a car engine. Its the amount of CO2 generated per unit of power delivered. And the problem with big efficient power generation plants is that they use a far dirtier fuel than petrol.
EVs are still better for the environment even if powered from coal https://www.carsguide.com.au/ev/advice/why-evs-are-more-ener…
@Danny117: Although some good information, that article doesn't seem to factor in the pollution in making the EV in the first place though.
better for the environment
What is the SI unit for 'environment' so we can measure this objectively?
@pharkurnell: as far as I understand you get about 30 years out of a good EV battery, I don't know about you but most of the time I'm upgrading a car after 30 years.
I prefer the brown coal than smelling exhaust of old and poorly maintained ICE. There are so many of them poorly maintained ICE. At least brown coal is far away from population center.
@max900: First 2 comments, absolutely… often have to set the ventilation to "internal" when going uphill behind an older car (most often utes) that belch out obnoxious clouds of very stinky exhaust fumes.
With that third one, not always; look up Latrobe Valley and see the not-so-large distances between the powerplants there, and the various towns (including a fairly large one, Traralgon)
Nobody is buying an EV because of the environment, some people need to get that into their heads
these aren't luxury they are more like the commodores or falcons of evs. "Americian quality" not "european" :D
Lol at people arguing these aren't luxuries. You're 100% correct. We need people to switch to electric vehicles, but of all the green changes we need this is the one which needs the least incentives.
The market already loves EVs. People are buying them. Spend government funds where people are on the fence about buying.
We also need the idiots in the NSW, Qld and Victoria to stop burning so much Coal…
stop burning so much Coal…
China and India are building more coal stations in a few years then we have in total. And they are burning Australian coal.
All the anti-coal movement has achieved is driven up costs of energy for Australians and made our industry less globally competitive.
@1st-Amendment: China and India are burning coal to lift people out of destitute poverty. We're burning coal to lift people's homes from 25 to 26 degrees. These things are not the same. Coal is cheap energy, and we built our wealth off it. Developing countries should be allowed to do the same.
We're burning coal to lift people's homes from 25 to 26 degrees. These things are not the same.
Oh man the mental gymnastics you must go through to come up with this stuff.
Developing countries should be allowed to do the same.
I agree 100% but you have to decide if you are chasing the climate boogey man or lifting people out of poverty, you can't do both.
@1st-Amendment: What? All climate change is marginal. It's not all of nothing. I think we can't in good faith expect developing countries not to use the cheap, easy form of energy we did for decades/centuries. We need to cut our emissions to zero to create the space for them to do so.
All climate change is marginal. It's not all of nothing.
What does that even mean?
I think we can't in good faith expect developing countries not to use the cheap, easy form of energy we did for decades/centuries.
I agree. Now let's see where your crazy logic falls over…
We need to cut our emissions to zero to create the space for them to do so.
Bingo! There it is!
So let's flesh this out. You think that if we cut 1 tonne of CO2, only for them to increase by 1 tonne then the planet will be still be saved somehow? How do you think that works?
Let me give you some real numbers to demonstrate this. Australia emitted 470Mt of CO2 for all of 2022. China INCREASED theirs by 1000Mt each and every year and have been doing so for over a decade. To put that in perspective, China uses a year of Australia's total emissions every 2 weeks. Think about that for a minute. And every solar panel you make in China adds to their total.
So even if you turn Australia off completely, the 'space' you have created disappeared 20 years ago. And for all that effort everything in Australia is still the same but it now just costs more and has been outsourced to China. So what exactly has been achieved by this?
@1st-Amendment: Ok. I was trying to be civil, but you're an idiot if you don't understand this. I'll try and spell it out for you in really simple terms.
Each tonne of carbon is bad. But in some places, that tonne of carbon may be justifiable because it dramatically improves the lives of people in dire poverty. Australia isn't one of those places. So we should cut our emissions. By doing so we, and other wealthy countries, may be able to keep climate change to 2 degrees rather than 3 degrees of warming. That difference in terms of outcomes is (profanity) huge.
Yes this requires collective action. If Australia was the only country cutting its emissions, yes we would be in trouble. But we're not. Europe is decades ahead of us. Even America has spent $1.5T on their green transition. Other wealthy countries generally understand that we have a moral duty to cut our emissions. We're the selfish pricks who have dragged our feet for decades because Australians knee jerk, arrogant reactionaries who refuse to see complexity.
The market already loves EVs. People are buying them
Probably because they are subsidised?
This. I sold my RAV4 cruiser hybrid only delivered in Jan to a model 3 in June because of the subsidy. The RAV4 is a much much better vehicle for daily travel and family duties.
@x d: what was the high level cost/benefit to make that switch
i was considering hybrid to relieve range anxiety of pure EV
@furythree: FBT for me with the RAV 4 was about $5k per year (though I'd get 1/2 of that back) though that depends on the value of the car and your private use proportion.
People get so overworked by the $2.50 petrol when if you drive 15000km per year, it'd cost you only $1875 per year (I was getting the 4.7L/100km). The depreciation of the EV will be more than that I reckon and I probably will be burnt by it (I hold my cars for at least 5 yrs usually). Knowing more about calendar degradation of Lithium batteries means that I'd never buy an EV outside of warranty, and so EV's value will tank after that I reckon.
Range anxiety is real and with the RAV 4 1000km per tank it was far better to only have to worry about looking for a petrol station every 3 weeks vs plugging in a charger every 3 days with the 3. I'd never own an EV if I am a one car family.
And don't get me started with the control interface of the 3!!! If the subsidy disappears, I'd be back looking for a RAV4 hybrid, or even a Camry hybrid in the next generation (not really a fan of the S curve in the current Camry interior)
@x d: More convenient to look for petrol station every 3 weeks vs plugging in a charger anytime at home??
Plugging at home is one of the best things of ev ownership, no more petrol stations full stop.
Realistically, range anxiety won't exist for most drivers on a daily basis. 300-400km of range is more than sufficient to cover daily usage.
@slickvic: There are at least 20 petrol stations on my way to work and return. Never had to wait for a bowser. Unwinding the Tesla Wallconnector plug and winding it back neatly every few days gets annoying quickly.
Range anxiety is real if you know a bit about calendar aging (including LFPs) and don't want to keep the SOC constantly high (don't believe about charging it to 100% doesn't do the battery any damage)
@x d: wait so the rav4 is better car but u still switched because of fbt?
fbt is if work gives u a car right? why would u switch to a tesla if there would be fbt regardless of the car you use unless the fbt is somehow lower on the tesla as the only reason i can think of
how much are u saving with the tesla?
also the range anxiety would only be for regular long distance driving though like driving to blue mountains from sydney type of trip
if ur just driving to work, wouldnt you be covered by the tesla battery, then coming home to top up each night? leave the plug hanging?
@furythree: Correct. Saving of FBT is significant if you have access to it via novated leasing or in our case a business entity which owns all our cars.
Believe me both my teenage daughters were harassing me to get a Tesla due to the "environmental" benefits (very questionable) and the fart mode. Both of them now tells me how much better and more comfortable the RAV 4 was.
Not sure now thinking about it that with the anticipated depreciation of Tesla that I would be saving much!!!
I try to keep my SOC less than 70% and only charge once it gets less than 40%. I would hate to go below 20%. You should look through TMC about calendar aging to learn a bit more about batteries before you commit to an EV
@furythree: Sorry, don't think I answered the FBT question properly. FBT is payable if you use a work car for private purposes. FBT is exempt if the vehicle however is an EV or a PHEV (for PHEV until 2025)
@x d: so hybrid doesnt get the exemption? that saving would be significant then to be worth switching. makes sense
was there anything in particular about the tesla that makes it uncomfortable?
the shiny new tech appeal of the tesla has started to wear off for me and im starting to look for traditional trim + electric/hybrid. but not sure if theres anything standout with teslas that make them worth reconsidering
hyundai cant hurry up fast enough with their offerings
more like budget economy. Imagine the people buying the byd and mg.
Some people can't afford to live in a house with subsidised solar panels and personal EV charger. Living in an apartment, no solar, no EV charger.
Some people can't afford to live in a house
Us rich people in the Teal seats would like you to eat cake!
Luxury? Have you seen the panel gaps on these cars?
Escept this isn't the new RRP. The new (Highland) model is $7k more than this. They are running out old stock
Tesla starting to feel the heat from upcoming BYD's?
The heat comes from the batteries
Tesla sources batteries from BYD tho
Source please!
It will be a source of concern due to BYD’s conduct so far.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BYD_Company#Lawsuits_and_con…
Only in europe, the Aus sourced Tesla LFP are inferior CATL LFPs.
@spiderbite88: Lots of articles on it. Currently only tesla berlin factory use BYD Blade batteries.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/tesla-model-y-byd-batteries-fo…
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-byd-batteries-giga-berlin-mo…
Tesla starting to feel the heat from upcoming BYD's?
The power of competition.
I feel sorry for current owners, only car campany that reducing their RRP. So you get a cheaper and better product regularly and what you got become instantly out dated.
Electric cars will follow the mobile phone model.
The flip and fold cars willl be interesting, easier to park if they fold in half
ah I will wait till EU USB-C standard charging then.
Their prices go up and down constantly if you actually follow the news.
And as far as being outdated? That's literally the one thing most EV owners will hold over any ICE - the constant software updates give older cars all the exact same features as the ones rolling off the factory (barring any obvious HW differences).
So yeah, don't feel sorry for the current owners - I'm sure they're doing just fine.
What they remove this time?
250 eneloops?
Once they remove Elon it's a buy
Is he making Teslas worse? I don’t understand.
He's definitely neglecting the business and tainting its reputation with his 'antics'.
Plenty of users have ethical reasons not to buy from certain companies.
I think Powlie is correct. Musk is becoming a liability rather than an asset to Tesla. Increasingly its coming to light that he is behind some of the poor and wacky design decisions at Tesla. For example, he pushed for removal of radar modules. An obvious cost cutting measure that caused plenty of headaches such as the phantom braking debacle. It was revealed that his own engineers insisted this was a bad idea, but were overruled.
You can guarantee he was behind the Yoke steering wheel, which eventually led to Tesla doing a very rare back track and offering regular steering wheels again.
Elon was the reason the Cybertruck is going to be stainless steel, which I firmly believe is going to come back and bite Tesla hard. They are already struggling with fitment and panel gaps. Just wait when people start denting and crashing them.
Its safe to say that a lot of the actual ground breaking engineering under the skin of most Teslas did not come from Elon but from the engineers that he likes to ignore.
You might say, its probably a good thing that twitter/X is distracting him so much, that means less internal meddling with Tesla.
Part of the steering wheel. Make it a Yoke to save on materials.
Thanks, we just need the price to drop further so that I can finally cash in my profits from those Boost SIMs
Boost SIMs are the new bitcoin
Tesla M3 or the BYD Dynamic?
put deposit for both and do a test drive to feel for yourself
Tesla deposits are non-refundable
wow that's pretty (profanity)
Is that even legal?
@WhyAmICommenting: For a change of mind? I’m pretty sure that is legal yes otherwise what’s the f’ing point?
@Ridiculous Panda: Found the deets:
Also important to note, the previous $1,000 and $2,500 deposit fees were fully refundable, but the $100 deposit is nonrefundable.
$100 is fair enough
You don't need to put a deposit to test drive a Tesla (unlike BYD and Hyundai)
I have tried both Tesla and BYD. No deposit required. Deposit was just to hold the position.
You don't need a deposit to drive a Hyundai (tested an Ioniq 5 other week)
BMW M3
Neither. Go the Tesla AMG
get 4 Onewheel and there you go
M3 I reckon. BYD has unproven longevitiy. Not that Tesla is that much better though.
The geopolitical situation with China is getting messy. Who knows what it will look like in a few years?
So I’d avoid BYD. I’ve had my current Toyota for 15 years and can still get parts and service. That may not be the case with BYD if the things heat up in the South China or East China seas within the next decade.
I drove both.
I was leaning toward the BYD due to price, but the Tesla really surprised me (and BYD disappointed) after test driving both. I ended up cancelling my BYD order and going for a Tesla.
All good found the answer
Lmao tesla fanboys are really something else, how have you managed to drive a car that isnt even available for public test drive yet? Most reviews coming out of europe seem to agree that the seal has much better dynamic/handling compared to the model 3, while the interior and build quality is so far ahead of the teslas that they dont really belong in the same class
Seals are available for test drive
Definitely not in QLD. Went to look at the one demo in Brisbane. It was a preproduction model and test driving is definitely not on!
BYD Dynamic will have better sound insulation, better sound system, better road comfort, bigger interior, compared to the older M3. older M3 would have better acceleration slightly longer range, better software, better charging speed/network at +$7k. New Highlander would compare to the BYD premium.
nah, Tesla wins when it comes to lawsuits, product issues and criticism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#
Another way is nuclear power.. yes I know this is a taboo topic in Australia politics even I have no idea why that is the case. All of our allies and enemies, past, present and emerging, braced the nuclear power: https://world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-fu…. And we are sitting on one of the biggest reserve, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_uranium_r….