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[PC] Games for Gaza - 256 Games for US$10 @ Itch.io

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[PC] Games for Gaza - 256 Games for US$10 @ Itch.io
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Taegukgi on 31/10/2023 - 00:24 itch.io (5206 clicks)
Last edited 31/10/2023 - 11:35 by 1 other user

A bundle hosted by Oak Grove Games by Esther Wallace with content from 140 creators.

In response to the ongoing crisis in Gaza and occupied Palestine, we're creating this bundle to raise funds for the organization Medical Aid For Palestinians. All funds raised will go to the organization.

From the organization's website: "MAP's vision is a future where all Palestinians can access an effective, sustainable and locally-led system of healthcare, and the full realisation of their rights to health and dignity.

Through our programmes in the West Bank, Gaza, East Jerusalem, and Lebanon, we work with trusted and experienced local partners to achieve this vision. Our programmes, designed and delivered by Palestinians, provide access to essential health services and build local knowledge and skills to address Palestinian health problems. In times of humanitarian emergency, we are ready to respond rapidly with aid and assistance.

MAP is also committed to bearing witness to the injustices caused by occupation, displacement and conflict. We speak out in the UK and internationally, and ensure Palestinian voices are heard at the highest levels, to press for the political and social barriers to Palestinian health and dignity to be addressed." This bundle will run for two weeks, from October 26th-November 9th, 2023.

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        • rightguy on 31/10/2023 - 16:26

          And so are you saying that it was evil of the Allies to go to war against the Nazis considering it let to deaths of millions of civilians? Considering there's never been war without deaths of civilians and is a feature of war is your opinion that war is never ever morally correct? Like, for instance, in the case of the Rwanda genocide when no country decided to go to war against the Hutu militias because they feared it would cause tens of thousands of civilian deaths the lack of going to war ended up causing 500,000 - 800,000 Tutsi deaths. I guess I'm asking whether or not it's the right of human beings to intervene using war at all as a tool of stopping or attempting to cease a conflict.

          Personally, I don't know what you would expect from the current conflict. Do you imagine that Hamas and Israel can sit down tomorrow and negotiate a fair settlement where Hamas disbands, ends any violence and their leadership submits to imprisonment? Because otherwise you're asking Israelis to just be okay with having a government that is within 100km of its major populations continue to be a threat and continue to hold hundreds of its citizens hostage after killing thousands of its citizens. I'm not pro-war at all but I'm genuinely unsure of how anyone can expect these two sides to come to any outcome but war to settle this current conflict. What other solutions do you propose?

        • rightguy on 10/11/2023 - 06:06

          You really think that Israel is doing a terrible job? It's hit rate on civilians is less than 0.5 people per bomb dropped in one of the most densely urban places on the planet. I mean when I did the math I got to an indiscriminate bombing campaign where you dropped 10,000 bombs on purely urban areas having a strike hit of 28 dead civilians from a bomb drop so I just mean that the data does not seem to back up your claim as they've certainly been able to use both targeting strategies and warning to decrease the death toll by nearly 5500% that seems like a huge success showing that what they are doing in a calculated manner is working. I went back through bombing campaigns in every urban bombing campaign America has fought in since Vietnam and I cannot repeat anywhere close to the success Israel has achieved in lowering the death rate of civilians from bombing as what they've been able to do in Gaza once you adjust for population differences.

          Like what methodology did you use to try to figure out that they're doing a terrible job in relation to what is actually possible within a war setting? I assume you used some sort of historical comparison and looked at data and tracked it accordingly. I'd be curious to find your findings.

          I'd also be curious to understand how you react to something like this: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67327079

      • subwoofer on 09/11/2023 - 21:32

        I'm sure when they carpet bomb refugee camps and hospitals and journalists and ambulances, their smart bombs can distinguish between genders

    • Almost Banned on 31/10/2023 - 17:29
      +1
      1. Israel isn't invading the Palestinian Authority controlled areas. Just Gaza. I wonder why…???
      2. Israel has been telling civilians to evacuate the northern parts of Gaza for a fortnight - while Hamas is telling civilians NOT to leave.
      3. Those casualty number are highly suspect, but given Hamas has a track record of putting military targets in schools, hospitals, and residential areas, and they are preventing civilians from leaving, they will cause some civilian casualties.
  • boomy on 31/10/2023 - 01:19
    +5

    Most of the stuff here looks lame. And some of the stuff is free anyway.

  • Coppermelt on 31/10/2023 - 01:25
    +4

    already raised 200k+ .. thanks OP

  • Poperdobs on 31/10/2023 - 01:29
    +2

    No command & conquer?

  • some123 on 31/10/2023 - 01:29
    +16

    Sorry I cannot in my conscience support terrorism

    • lachlantula on 31/10/2023 - 01:36
      +15

      the infamous uk-based nonprofit terrorist group medical aid for palestinians?

      • Tamagotchi Breeder on 31/10/2023 - 04:47
        +10

        The famous HAMAS which is known for receiving humanitarian aid and then selling it off so that they can put their leaders in 5 star hotels in Turkey/Dhoa. All while their human shields protect their most prozed assets, their rockets.

        • BargainCowboy on 31/10/2023 - 07:53
          +7

          Stop it with your FACTS

        • subwoofer on 09/11/2023 - 21:37
          -1

          That's some grotesque nazi like blood libel propaganda. I'm adamant now that white nazi supremacists are masquerading as zionists, you disgust me. These people care about their newborns and their mothers and daughters just like other human beings.

          • rightguy on 10/11/2023 - 06:27

            @subwoofer: How is it blood libel propaganda when Hamas' political wing openly admits to living lavish lifestyle in other Muslim countries and often post pictures showing off. I mean have you seen some of their kids' social media accounts - these kids love showing off how rich their families live it up. Hamas has an annual budget of $3.5 - $5.5 billion to take care of 2.3 million Gazan citizens who also receive another $5-8 billion a year in assistance from various organizations and charities. Qatar alone gives $1.3 billion a year to Gaza.

            Let's take the steelman argument and say that it's only $3.5 billion. That means there is $1521 budgeted per person to deliver infrastructure and services by the government.

            Have a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_governmen…

            You'll find that Gaza would be around the 100th richest nation when it comes to the budget it has to spend on its people. It sits higher than neighbouring Egypt which only has $554 per person (so around 1/3) and Jordan which has $1129 per person. Ukraine for instance has $885. Russia sits at $2022. But if you like you can adjust further because Gaza should have zero military costs where these other nations have military costs. So Russia spends about 20% of their budget on military which means their actual budget available for everything else is $1617 or very similar to Gaza.

            Gazans are absolutely suffering because of Hamas' corruption - otherwise they should have a working power plant capable of delivering the 500mW needed for Gaza. They would have access to clean water and sanitation. They would have money for economic stimulus for business growth and development. If Egypt and Jordan and Ukraine can do all that on far less than there's no reason why Gaza cannot do the same. The only reason they can't is that Hamas doesn't do anything good with that money. They spend hundreds of millions of dollars building tunnels that serve the newborns and their mothers and daughters no functional purpose while those newborns and their mothers and their daughters only get a smidgen of the electricity and water they need. They clearly siphon off money into their own pockets. And those tunnels have created massive ecological problems for Gazans by damaging the aquifer and now requiring Gazan people to desalinate their water requiring power to fuel desalinization plants in an environment where power is hard to come by.

            Sure, Palestinians in Gaza might care about their newborns and their mothers and their daughters just like other human being but Hamas doesn't. It literally enslaved children in forced labour in the worst possible conditions, rivaling 18th century coal mines, to help dig 500km of tunnels 25m deep below the surface. As of something like 2012 or 2014 they admitted to 160 Gazan kids dying during the process of creating those tunnels. Again, these were children forced to work in the worst conditions on Earth who died building tunnels that have no functional purpose for the citizens of Gaza with hundreds of million of dollars that could have been used to actual improve Gazans lives. Hamas dug up water pipes and repurposed them for Qassam rockets. Like how you can say that Hamas cares about their people is crazy! A government that cares about their people does things to improve the lives of their people especially when they are in a financial position to do just that.

            I don't know if you work for HAMAS or just really really like them but man oh man you are reaching if you are trying to argue that they care about their people. They don't. And please stop calling people Nazis for merely stating some truths about the reality we live in.

    • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 14:18
      +3

      isreal was established on terrorism, massacres and ethnic cleansing.

      • rightguy on 10/11/2023 - 06:42

        Cool so was Australia, the USA, Canada, Liberia, Mexico, Germany, UK, France, Italy, Iran, Mongolia, Turkiye, India, Pakistan, Ireland, Spain, Portugal, - heck you basically described every single country in the world. Countries have always been established after defining their borders by some forceful action. Israel being established on something means nothing today. It is not 1948 it's 2023. Anyone who was 18 years old and older in 1948 would be 93 years old and older today. Most of those people are dead and the few that remain are old and no longer in power. How Israel was established has no bearing on the reality on the ground today. Israel today exists and is a society that functions for its citizens relatively well and has problems typical with any society. What is atypical is the continued inability of the Palestinians and the Israelis to compromise and reach a peace treaty in a two state solution. If you want to scream about what happened in 1948 you're welcome to but you're essentially an old man yelling at a cloud with how effective that is to solve a problem that exists today. Unless you own or have access to a time machine that can go back to 1948 and stop Israel from coming into existence how it came into existence is not relevant in 2023. It exists. It is not going to not exist without a major genocide that I'm guessing you don't want. So let's deal with its existence and then deal with the existence of the Palestinian people and then find a solution to allow everyone to exist in peace with one another. That's the way to move forward on this and if you genuinely cared about the Palestinian people you would aim for solutions not just be angry over stuff that happened 75 years ago. Because all people do when they go around screaming about things that don't matter or that are unrealistic is they further the status quo which is a thriving Israel and an occupied Palestine. A bunch of kids screaming "from the river to the sea" and dreaming up some unrealistic concept of a one state solution is not helping Palestinians because there is never going to be a one state solution - that is never going to be agreed to by both parties. So we need to then work on a concept that both parties can agree on and move forward from there. You hating Zionists is silly. Zionism is the desire to have a Jewish homeland in the form of the state of Israel. The Zionist project succeeded - Israel exists. Zionists today are just people who support Israel's continued existence. Israel is going to continue to exist as are Zionists. Just like Russia is going to continue to exist and there will always be Russophiles. Like I don't know why you have such a problem engaging in reality in 2023 in a manner that actually deals with the reality on the ground rather than your fantasies and anger. It's so unproductive. It is just an old man yelling at the clouds sort of thing. If you want something positive for the Palestinian people hold their leaders as accountable as you hold Israeli leaders and ensure that the monies given to and raised by the Palestinian people go towards their interest and not into the pockets of corrupt leaders in HAMAS and the PA.

  • Webbo on 31/10/2023 - 01:41
    +31

    Funny how the people that started this war are now claiming to be the 'victims'.

    • Kazusa on 31/10/2023 - 01:47
      +22

      To be fair that’s the entire gimmick of Hamas, start a war then cry when the others fight back and get donations/spread fake news and then get future recruits

    • Deviner on 31/10/2023 - 01:47
      +13

      When did Palestine start the war out of curiosity?
      I know Hamas commited a terrorist attack on October 7th, and I know Israel have been actively trying to ethnically cleanse the Gaza strip for decades and have killed thousands more Palestinians than any Israeli casualty, but I'm just a little foggy on when Palestian started the war.

      And do you've any idea why so many Palestinians are being killed by Israelis on the Westbank, on a constant basis, despite there being no Hamas presence there?

      • Webbo on 31/10/2023 - 01:51
        +12

        yep, October the 7th, Jihad day. No Israeli incursions into Gaza before the muhammadans went on their jihad against civilians.

        • Deviner on 31/10/2023 - 01:54
          +9

          Oh great, respond to my comment, but don't acknowledge or reply to anything in it.

          • Webbo on 31/10/2023 - 01:57
            +15

            @Deviner: You asked what day Palestine started the war, I gave the answer.

          • Youi2018 on 31/10/2023 - 02:00
            +11

            @Deviner: Don't worry about people like webbo. As soon as you see the “ muhammadans” you know he hates muslims

            Shame we cant treat this as being “ anti Semitic” because thats all people take seriously, but islam is fine to mock

            • Deviner on 31/10/2023 - 02:10
              +6

              @Youi2018: It's amazing how you read about propaganda in school history books and think "jeez, how naive were they back then!" and think about how much we've advanced and how much technology and resources we have at our fingertips….. yet we're still just as, if not even more, gullible and blind as ever.

              What a time to be alive…

              • Youi2018 on 31/10/2023 - 02:14
                +7

                @Deviner: Yeh its amazing the same people that had the holocast done to them now their descendants are doing the same to Palestinians but just slowly so it can go un noticed.

                What a time to be alive …..

                Sorry I'm not part of your “chosen people of god” that can do whatever they like .

        • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 14:22

          isreal sacrificed its own civilians to destroy hamas, this border is the most militarized, the most surveillanced the most advanced AI driven prison wall in the world YET we are to believe Hamas just walked in and went on rampage for SIX hours without the army lifting a finger. It would not be the first time they sacrificed their own people for land

          • rightguy on 10/11/2023 - 06:56

            @subwoofer: The border wall was built before the advent of drones. If you look at Hamas' own footage they used drones to drop explosives on the various watchtowers scattered at ever 2km point. The watchtowers were never manned by humans so it was easy to overwhelm it with a drone attack which is invisible and then once the watchtower was taken out explosives and large plant took out sections of the wall to enable entry. It was a flaw in the design which didn't account for the potential of invisible aerial attacks as the logic has always been that Hamas has no aerial presence. Drones have changed that to allow Hamas a small amount of aerial presence that enabled it to undertake this offence. Poor future-proofing on behalf of the Israeli military where new tech was able to overwhelm old thinking. And the army was there fairly rapidly they responded to attacks immediately not after 6 hours - I mean military bases came under direct attack within minutes of the wall being breached so I'm not sure where you got your information. I watched a video timestamped of a battle between Hamas and the military that was around 15 minutes after they breached the wall. You also have to remember that this attack came on a holiday that to Israel is like Easter that came at the end of a month-long period of holidays - so you might have had some issues of people not being ready or taking leave or just not being in the mental preparedness required to be ready for war.

            Your belief that this was some sort of conspiracy because of your commitment to not understanding the timeline of events is weird. There's no evidence at all to support such a theory and ultimately Israel did not plan this out with Hamas and tell them "hey come over at this time on this day and we will leave the door open for you." Clearly there was a problem with how prepared Israel was and clearly Hamas also got very lucky with some of their choices on that day. But believing that somehow Hamas and Israel colluded to start a war so that Israel could bomb the heck out of Gaza and try to wipe out Hamas is just ludicrous. That's the level of conspiracy thinking that is so outlandish it's both funny and scary that an adult could ever believe in something like that.

            • subwoofer on 10/11/2023 - 11:14

              @rightguy: it doesn't explain that six hours went and isreal did not respond to the strike by Hamas. And when they did they were like a raging bull destroying and killing their own people, the charred corpses isreal paraded could only be explained by their own smart bombs not hamas primitive weapons. nearly every prisoner released or spared by hamas talks about their good treatment by their captors.

              isreal wanted to inflict it's own 911 on it's people so as to give it a cart bleaunch to decimate Gaza and it's population then colonize the rest of Gaza. They saw how the world reacted to 911 and how it gave US the green light to invade a country of it's choice.

              Also drones had no effect on how effective the attach was, after all drones can't transport people across the concentration camp wall.

      • PuppieWayne on 31/10/2023 - 02:12
        +4

        … you are asking to be educated on a 100+ years history on a bargaining board?

        Have you heard of Google?

      • Wolfenstein98k on 31/10/2023 - 09:55
        +5

        What kind of "ethnic cleansing" causes the population to double in under three decades?

        18th-fastest population growth in the world, and that's with Israel withdrawing and forcibly removing every Jew within Gaza.

        • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 18:04

          over 70% of Gazans are not even from Gaza, they were ethnically cleansed from other parts of Palestine, keep denying the genocide of the Palestinian people. The reproductive rate of fundamentalist Jews is way higher than Palestinians, all they do is eat, fornicate and collect money from the government

          • Wolfenstein98k on 31/10/2023 - 19:04
            +1

            @subwoofer: Weird remark at the end there about Jews but whatever, some people can't help but randomly speak ill of them.

            I don't understand why being "ethnically cleansed" from one location to another, a few tens of kilometres away, causes your birth rate to skyrocket up while you're simultaneously apparently being genocided.

            This narrative doesn't make sense.

      • rightguy on 31/10/2023 - 14:05

        Well Hamas and Israel had a formal ceasefire prior to October 7th. So when Hamas invaded Israel they formally restarted the war as the previous ceasefire ended it. As to who started the original war with Hamas. Technically the first rocket from Gaza into Israel was fired on 28 March 2006 and then a few months later in July further rockets fell on Israel including on in Ashkelon that hit a high school. Hamas claimed responsibility for the attack.

        As for your question about why so many Palestinians are killed by Israelis on the West Bank on a constant basis I don't really see that in the data that the PA has produced. There are some strong peaks during conflicts but it's definitely not a constant. You seem to be under the belief that a Palestinian gets killed every day in the West Bank and the evidence I've seen from the PA doesn't really jive with that. There's definitely tension between peoples there and violence tends to break out. There's probably even poverty. And then of course there's issues like access to guns which we know from America is not great when you have tension between any class of people and issues of poverty as well.

        • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 14:27

          Having a ceasefire with isreal is like a sword having a ceasefire with neck, you'll never when it will fall on them and kill them. Not to mention Hamas was created by isreal and it's infiltrated by isreali spies to the extent that they are useless. I wish the Palestinians would disown Hamas, they are working for the isrealis

          • rightguy on 01/11/2023 - 10:18
            +1

            @subwoofer: Hamas wasn't created by Israel. It was originally a social assistance group - a charity - that helped Palestinian citizens in the way that Salvos does outreach and social charity. At that point Israel did provide it with some funding. Then at a certain stage it moved towards a more militant group and Israel removed funding. That's not creating anything. The myth that Israel created Hamas is just as false as the myth that Hitler was Jewish. And no Hamas isn't working for the Israelis. That's beyond utter nonsense.

        • Ibz on 01/11/2023 - 02:13

          I implore you to read this article from 2013
          https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2013/2/22/what-a-period-o…
          It details what a ceasefire period looks like for Palestine. You can reach whatever conclusion you like, but take the time to read it

          • rightguy on 01/11/2023 - 10:39

            @Ibz: Not sure what an article from 2013 has of any relevance to this conversation. Do you have data relating to the formal ceasefire that Hamas broke in Oct 7 as that's the ceasefire under discussion?

            The reality is not so much the back and forth conflict during a ceasefire but what a ceasefire actually looks like for Palestinians in Gaza. Remember both Hamas and Egypt have all but destroyed the fresh water sources of Gaza by Hamas building tunnels and Egypt flooding those tunnels with sea water which contaminated the natural aquifer which provides Gazans with 94% of their drinking water. So now they have to build multiple desalinization plants and then create a network to be able to pump and deliver that drinking water to homes once its been desalinized. To do that they need power. The problem is that every time that Hamas and Israel go to war Hamas fires rockets into Israel that have destroyed the electrical system feeding Gaza. The only way to fix that is to get contractors into both Israel and Gaza and spend hundreds of millions of dollars on it. No one wants to invest in infrastructure that is going to be destroyed in a few months in war so it doesn't happen. That's why Egypt ended up bulldozing all their electrical towers that supplied Gaza and cut off electricity entirely. To give you some sense 10 years ago Israel had the capacity to provide 128mW into Gaza. Prior to this conflict it was 48mW. And now due to this conflict and the further damage to the electrical grid it's less than 20mW. Gaza has an energy requirement of 500mW. And both Turkey and Qatar stopped selling fuel to Gaza, as fuel runs the only power station, because Hamas stopped paying their fuel bills

            The issue is what bank is going to fund infrastructure that is going to likely get damaged or destroyed with further conflict and what organization can justify spending hundreds of millions trying to solve a problem that is likely to reoccur within months.

            Cities and countries get developed by investors who see value in growing and investing in areas and people. They seek some level of return on investment whether that is financial or political or social. There's not an investor in the world who looks at a Hamas controlled Gaza and believes it is a wise place to invest their money because of the lack of stability. Until Hamas is removed from power Gazans will suffer by not having access to any external investments. And even with external investment you cannot rebuild infrastructure overnight. It takes time to plan, draw things out, get materials, hire companies and then time to build and commission. People in Gaza need power and electricity today and the poor governance by Hamas has really created a major humanitarian issue over there that sits to the side of the current conflict.

            I really do hope that Hamas is removed from power whether that's by Palestinians or by Israel. In the long run the people of Gaza deserves a government that is focused on their day to day needs and not military exercises.

            • Ibz on 01/11/2023 - 14:29

              @rightguy: You wrote a massive paragraph, but immediately dismissed my reply and switched to a different point. You were talking about a 'ceasefire'. What value therefore is there in me replying to you if you won't really address anything I say. There is very limited RELIABLE information on the matter. I provided evidence from a reputable source, the situation hasn't significantly changed since 2013 REGARDING CEASEFIRES. The onus is now on you to provide counter evidence that Israel does not kill many Palestinians during ceasefire times.

              • rightguy on 01/11/2023 - 14:48
                +1

                @Ibz: So in 2022 from this source Israelis killed 37 Gazans and Hamas killed 16 Gazans through failed rocket attacks. So essentially during a ceasefire in Gaza Hamas killed half as many Palestinians as Israel did and you want to tell me that Hamas is somehow saints and Israel is somehow atrocious. Considering the issue of failed rockets killing Palestinians seems to be commonplace from just this data in August of 2022, can I ask, have you ever stopped to wonder how many hundreds of Palestinians in Gaza have been killed over the last few weeks from failed rockets like what we saw happen at the Al-Quds hospital?

                https://euromedmonitor.org/en/article/5523/Pulling-the-trigg…

              • rightguy on 10/11/2023 - 06:59

                @Ibz: Cool you never responded to me - nice courtesy on your part. Guess you weren't all that interested in actually having a conversation. I don't get why people just pop in say something, ask for a response and then completely ghost a conversation. Humans are funny.

                • Ibz on 10/11/2023 - 14:45

                  @rightguy: Sorry buddy. Non intentional. You've raised some interesting data which details how Hamas resulted in the death of 16 Gazans, but Israel resulted in the death of more than double that. I don't think Hamas is some amazing organisation and we should love them, but they are all that's left between Israel and its takeover of Gaza. They have unsophisticated weapons and they're fighting with what they can, so it's unfortunate but unsurprising there are casualties on both sides. The difference is that Israel has advanced weaponry and hits innocent Gazans with intention.

                  How would it look like if Hamas wasn't there?
                  https://msf.org.au/article/project-news/violence-against-pal…
                  Hundreds of innocent Palestinians would still be dead.
                  Hamas isn't the common factor in the death of Palestinians, Israel is.

                  BTW since the time of that hospital attack, we've seen Israel bomb churches, hospitals, refugee camps, and the areas they ordered innocent civilians to evacutate to. We can address Hamas once we address the greater threat to humanity. I'm not saying we don't need to worry about Hamas, I'm saying Israel has been the primary cause of devastation upon Palestinians, and even if you want change from Hamas, you must first change Israel
                  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/20/war-crime-israel-b…
                  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023…
                  https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/5/israel-bombs-al-mag…
                  https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/10/16/middleeast/israel-palesti…

                  • rightguy on 10/11/2023 - 20:39

                    @Ibz: The article you've put as evidence of what it would like if Hamas wasn't there really isn't much of an argument that Israel is the common factor in death. The BBC is reporting that Israel went into Jenin to arrest suspects and were met with heavy fire from militant groups and that these raids have come on the back of Palestinians killing 30 people in the West Bank. So you seem to be avoiding some facts and trying to create this idea that Israel is just walking into Jenin and killing people willy nilly. That does not seem to be the case and your attempt to show it like that is pretty bad faith on your part. Let's deal with reality with all its warts and not just avoid facts that don't support your argument. Clearly the reality is that you have two parties participating in violence in the West Bank.

                    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67372661

                    Not sure why you believe that Hamas is all that there is between Israel and a takeover of Gaza.

                    Israel is not interested in taking over Gaza - they pulled out entirely in 2005 and they only instituted any blockades on the border once Hamas started to fire rockets into Israel. If Israel's goal was to reoccupy Gaza it would have over a decade ago. It's clear that that's not its intent. If Israel wanted to take over Gaza and kill ever Gazan they could tomorrow. They could align themselves with Russia or China and buy military weapons from them. Israel doesn't need friends. It doesn't need America. They get $3.8 billion in military credit from the USA. But their annual budget for the country is close to $140 billion. They don't require America or anyone. If they wanted to go rogue and push everyone out of the West Bank and Gaza and then close up the borders they could do that easily. Clearly their intent is to let Gaza on its own and were happy to do that until Hamas fired rockets into Israel, causing them to then put up a military blockade along their border - which seems reasonable when you're being attacked at regular intervals by rocket attacks. Rocket attacks that by the way are clearly illegal under any international law as they are dumbfired which is in violation of 3 sections of the Geneva Conventions. So I'm not sure how dumb-firing rockets into another country is a defensive act when it seems like it's a call for the neighbouring country to put up blockades, sanctions and to bomb and invade.

                    I am doubtful Australia would refrain from bombing or invading Indonesia if they regularly fired rockets at Australia.

                    So I'm not sure how it is that you see Israel as the major devastation in Gaza when it is so clearly Hamas that is the cause of the issues there.

                    Gaza had a never-ending supply of inground fresh water that it used to sustain itself for thousands of years. Then Hamas came in and built tunnels and contaminated that fresh water with seawater requiring desalinization. That alone is the most devastating and destructive thing to ever happen to that part of the world. That water will never ever be able to be decontaminated. It would cost trillions to decontaminate it due to how deep it is and would never be worth the cost. So now and for all time moving forward Gazans will have to desalinate their water which makes life there super hard.

                    Gaza also used to have some reasonably arable land you could use to grow things. Then Egypt decided it didn't like the smuggling tunnels that Hamas has built and it flooded them. But it also flooded the land around it and it used seawater. Ever hear the term "salt the earth" used to described ensuring that no one will be able to ever grow any food in a place again. That's what Egypt did. It destroyed around 1/3 of arable land in the Gaza strip. It would cost hundreds of billions of dollars and take years to remediate it.

                    Those two things are far more devastating to Gaza than what is happening in Gaza right now because they will last for thousands of years. Imagine if the USA just dumped toxic waste all over Native American land that had a half life of 100,000 years. That's the level of devastation we are talking about.

                    But in general Hamas has been the most devastating thing to happen to the Palestinian people there. Beyond destroying their water supply Hamas has been letting every single matter of infrastructure fall to pieces. Remember this is a government that has an annual budget of $3.5 - 5.5 billion dollars a year to support 2.3 million people. That's a budget per capita of over $1500. Meanwhile Ukraine functions well on a budget per capita of $800, Egypt on $500, Jordan on $1100. Gaza would be the in the top 100 richest nations in the world if it was a country. And Gaza benefits more than most countries because it is small so infrastructure is cheaper as you don't have to deal with shifting power, water, roads, etc across great distances. That's one of the reasons why a place like Singapore can be so prosperous is they get more bang for their infrastructure costs than a country like Canada, Australia or the USA.

                    In Gaza we haven't seen a single upgrade to their failing power station which runs on fuel since Hamas was in power. Hamas stopped paying their fuel and electricity bills in 2017 so Qatar and Turkey stopped shipping them fuel and Egypt not only stopped providing them power but they bulldozed all their electrical infrastructure that used to service Gaza to make sure they could never again be on the hook for it. Only Israel provided electricity and water at no cost to Gaza.

                    I know people who visit their parents in Gaza regularly. The main issue they face day to day isn't due to Israel it's not having running water or sanitation. And it's not as if there isn't the money to provide it. But instead Hamas has spent hundreds of millions of dollars on building 500km of tunnels as deep as 25m throughout Gaza. These tunnels have not only caused an ecological disaster to the water table but they provide zero benefit to Gazan citizens. And yet they've used hundreds of millions of dollars in construction materials to build them. Those materials and monies could have provided them with a new power plant that was more efficient than the one they have. It could have provided them with water treatment plants. It could have provided them with better desalinization facilities. Because those are the big problems Gazan face.

                    And how did Hamas build those tunnels - with forced slave labour much of it child labour. Little Gazan kids were forced to work in the most horrendous inhumane conditions underground digging out tunnels. By Hamas' own admission around 160 kids died by 2012 alone - given the trajectory the number would be in the thousands by now.

                    And then there is this war. Hamas clearly knew that invading Israel and killing 1400 of its citizens and kidnapping nearly 250 would lead to an all out war that Hamas could not win. It was a provocation that was unlike anything we've seen in this conflict so far. And anyone with any brain could see what the outcome would be. Israel would have no choice but to bomb and then invade and tens of thousands of people would die and hundreds of thousands, millions in fact would suffer. When Hamas leaders continue to speak in public and say they will launch Oct 7 attacks constantly in the future what else can Israel do but react militarily as their blockades and sanctions are not working.

                    So yeah it's pretty horrible what's happening at the moment. But somehow seeing Hamas as freedom fighters or Palestinian resistance in this and not just a bunch of thugs who don't give a damn about Palestinians is so incorrect. Their leaders are making fortunes essentially providing a proxy military for the Iranians who do not give a damn about anyone in Palestine. Speak to any Iranian who has fled Iran and they will tell you their government has zero interest in Palestinian statehood or self-determination. But that's what Hamas is just a puppet army for Iran to do a lot of crap in the region without getting their own hands bloody.

                    Your belief that Israel can be addressed is silly by the way. Israel is a nuclear power and needs to be handled as such. If they are invaded by a nation capable of overwhelming it they will no doubt use their nuclear power to strike where required. You handle a nuclear power with diplomacy and because of that Israel isn't going anywhere. So you're better off focusing on removing Hamas. Meanwhile we should see the Netanyahu government lose power shortly. Hopefully the next Israeli government will be better suited to make peace and deliver a 2 state solution. There is no one state solution that will be possible. Israelis are never going to agree to one. We might have a shot at a two state solution if somehow when this mess is over we can determine who can speak with any authority for the Palestinian people whether that's Fatah or some other moderate group. But that's the only way out. Your belief that Israel can be eradicated or undermined is silly. The people of Israel are currently very much in support of this war effort. It's not going to be stopped anytime soon. The only positive thing is that unlike American war efforts that go on for decades this one will likely be over within weeks or months.

    • cmyk on 31/10/2023 - 07:01

      Yeah agree, that's how Israel roll

    • usernaem on 31/10/2023 - 10:57

      Lol some of you people are so stupid

    • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 15:19
      +2

      The people that started this war….. the jews that invaded palestine?
      They are very good at claiming to be victims!

  • Freestyle on 31/10/2023 - 01:47
    +8

    again PoliticsBargain

  • OzBargain1234 on 31/10/2023 - 02:02
    +15

    Time to look at our immigration.

  • Youi2018 on 31/10/2023 - 02:06
    +4

    Watch the Israelis get mad about this . Oh no don't give money to Palestinians!!

    Them : we receive over 3 billion dollars from U.S every year we are the victims !

    • Freestyle on 31/10/2023 - 02:50
      +17

      Wait till someone draws a picture of your prophet then your whole religion celebrates the execution of that person as if thats a normal thing

      • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 14:31
        +1

        Name me one person who was executed for drawing a picture of the prophet! I'm waiting.. on the hand please go through a so called orthodox area in isreal talking on a mobile on sabbath and tell me if you live to tell about it

        • Freestyle on 31/10/2023 - 17:55
          +4

          thanks for asking

          https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting

          and worst of all, many were like they deserved it because “disrespecting the Prophet” what kind of mentality is this?

          • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 17:59

            @Freestyle: You lost me when they said they were Alqaeda operatives, they were probably sent there by the CIA.

            • Freestyle on 31/10/2023 - 19:06
              +1

              @subwoofer: ofc i lost you, thats exactly why multiple muslims celebrated the attack as if it was some sort of justice being done

              Very normal people

              • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 19:08

                @Freestyle: no what's normal is for the isrealis to go to the top of hills overlooking Gaza and have parties and dance while chanting death to all Arabs

                • Freestyle on 31/10/2023 - 19:09
                  +3

                  @subwoofer: Nice religion of peace bruh

                  • Youi2018 on 01/11/2023 - 22:14

                    @Freestyle: The problem with you is when white people kill others you don’t count it as terrorism , its just a mistake

                    British ( Christians)killed aborigines , thats fine
                    Americans ( christians) killed native Americans, thats fine
                    George w bush ( a christian) lied about weapons of mass destructions , killed over 1 million Iraqis thats fine
                    Israel killed at least 7000 Palestinians and counting and not 1 “ hamas” operative yet , thats fine

                    None of these count as terrorism cause its not muslims doing the killing 👍

                    • Freestyle on 02/11/2023 - 02:01

                      @Youi2018: Sorry buck-o I am far from white, was born in a muslim family and I used to see the religious hypocrisy everyday and the arrogance of the people in this religion that if you dont follow it you are somehow a lesser human being and people judge you by how religious you are, not by how you are as a person, why do you think I settled here instead?

                      No idea why most of you celebrated the brutal attacks to the Charles Hebdo team.

                      No idea why you get so triggered when anyone says anything negative about this religion and cannot just leave people alone

                      Also most of all, no idea why such a big fan of warfare when you claim its a religion of peace, why is Jihad a good thing?

                      Your religion shouldnt define your whole being.

                  • subwoofer on 09/11/2023 - 21:39

                    @Freestyle: read your torah, it's an encyclopedia for Genocide and ethnic cleansing

    • Bdawg on 31/10/2023 - 09:59

      They are quite literally the victims here, or have you not seen any of the videos and photos?

      • Youi2018 on 01/11/2023 - 22:02

        Yeh the victims who get 3 billion from u.s . Have one of the most advanced military in the world . Gaza is the most surveillance place . Palestinians have no right to own weapons . All Israelis do . Palestinians have no army. Israel has IDF

        And still after 36 years , yes 36 years ,not since oct 7 , they cant get rid of “ hamas” . Think about that for one sec !

        Now they have killed at least 7000 people . And not 1 “ hamas operative” has been killed

        And you still have the nerve to call Israel the victim

        • Bdawg on 02/11/2023 - 09:20

          A lot of words to say nothing. Back in your box.

    • rightguy on 01/11/2023 - 10:46

      Palestinians get around 400 million a year from the USA and another 900 million from a mix of EU, Canada and Arab states. Egypt and Jordan also get around $1.5 billion in US aid each year.

      To be clear - where the USA gives actual cash to other countries like Palestine, Jordan, Egypt, etc. They don't actually give Israel any real money. What they give Israel is essentially like a gift certificate for military aid. Israel has to spend that money on American produced military equipment. That's all they can spend it on where the money given to Jordan, Egypt and Palestine can be spend on social causes. Hence why America gives more to Israel because it's just really them funding or subsidising the American military production industry and all that money comes back to America anyhow where the monies given to other Middle Eastern countries don't end up flowing back to the USA.

      • Youi2018 on 01/11/2023 - 22:06

        USA gives Isreal at least 3 billion a year that we know of . Please don't tell me that 3 billion is all a “ gift certificate for military aid ” . Because one you have no proof of that . Secondly why do they need 3 billion dollars worth of military aid ?

        In 36 years ( yes “hamas” was established in 1987) they haven't been able to get rid of Hamas . So i would say that 3 billion on military aid every year as you claim has been a waste of money as they are utterly hopeless and the funding needs to stop

  • j0hnd0e on 31/10/2023 - 02:17
    +11

    Don't care about Gaza, downvoted because these games are shit.

    • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 14:34
      +2

      If a nation can face a genocide without any repercussions for the perpetrator, then it could happen to any of us, no one will be safe, especially if you question their propaganda

      • j0hnd0e on 31/10/2023 - 15:37
        +3

        By perpetrator, i hope you mean Hamas.

        • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 15:42
          +1

          Hamas is a friend isreal created them, they are infiltrated by isreal to the bone, just yesterday the son of hamas founder was on sky news. Apparently he was an isreali agent, so don't be hard on them.

          • rightguy on 01/11/2023 - 10:52

            @subwoofer: Hamas wasn't created by Israel. Hamas used to be a social charity that provided schooling, food, and other services to the Palestinian communities - sort of like how Salvos works here. At that stage Israel funded it because it was doing some good community stuff. Then at some point they became militant and shifted into a network of people calling for terrorism and preaching hate. At that stage Israel stopped funding it. Israel had nothing to do with its creation they only helped it along when it was doing charity work and then stopped when Hamas shifted their mandate to doing bad things.

            And the son of the Hamas founder went to jail and decided to turn on his family and previous organization because he realized that they were evil. He became an Israeli spy because he thought that he was doing something good by undermining and exposing Hamas.

            I don't know how you have gleaned what little information you have so poorly without understanding it or its nuances. Like when I don't know something I don't go online and pretend to have knowledge that I don't. I either inform myself properly or I just stay quiet. I really don't get how the internet is full of people who know so little but pretend they have some expertise. It's baffling.

            • subwoofer on 01/11/2023 - 22:23

              @rightguy: https://youtu.be/ETQHHm18J7I

              Hamas is so infiltrated by isreali spies to the extent it's useless. Their main aim was to create civil war amongst Palestinians and islamisize the Palestinian cause. Having a secular resistance was gaining too much support from non Arabs in the 60s, 70s and 80s and they didn't like that.

              Even in the 7th of October attacks everyone is questioning why isreali army didn't move a muscle for SIX HOURS allowing hamas to go on rampage.

              • rightguy on 01/11/2023 - 22:48

                @subwoofer: That's utter nonsense. That's like believing that there's basements in pizza joints in Washington, DC where people are holding kids and farming fear toxins. It's completely an unhinged irrational concept that's not supported by any facts. It tells me you've done nothing but watch some videos online by some very ignorant people who sold you a sack of lies which you gobbled up like they were M&Ms.

                October 7th was one of the holiest days of the year in Israel. It was the religious holiday of Simchat Torah and is similar to Easter so it was a surprise attack on a day when the military was probably less prepared to deal with it. To be clear your timeline of 6 hours is off. The attack started at 6:30 AM and by 7:00 AM there were already military fights between Hamas and IDF on the ground. The issue is that the IDF did not realize that other attacks were happening at kibbutzs and at the festival. So the military was dealing with other engagements. The problem seems to be that there weren't enough troops on the ground partially because of it being a holiday, partially because there was a focus more on West Bank and because they didn't realize that Hamas had basically split forces into dozens of smaller incursion groups to maximize the damage that they could do. Essentially they split their forces into far too many areas for Israel to properly be able to launch a reactive response. It was a clear failure on behalf of Israel to understand their enemy and what their enemy would be capable or interested in. That's not evidence of Hamas and Israel working together - that's just evidence of some level of incompetence on behalf of Israel which will no doubt be investigated in the coming months and reported on more. At the moment we don't know why exactly things went wrong on Oct 7 but the lack of us having a full rounded understanding of it doesn't mean that these parties were in collusion. Remember "Hanlon's Razor" and always keep that in check.

  • BoltThrower on 31/10/2023 - 02:17
    +19

    No money for Hamas.

    • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 15:22

      No money for israel!! Stop the US sending billions a year to the middle east to help the jews carry out genocide.

  • zacsg1 on 31/10/2023 - 02:42
    +19

    Not giving money to the terrorists Hamas!

  • bob19 on 31/10/2023 - 02:50
    +18

    To support terrorists and mass murderers is a new low for Ozbargainers who clearly don't care that the money will end up in the hands of HAMAS and will be used to make new rockets and to murder more people.

    • drazenm on 31/10/2023 - 03:09
      +12

      And supporting genocidal maniacs is ok because all our mainstream media says so (and we know who runs the media in the west) ? Sold out governments say so? What's been done last 3 weeks there, not to mention 70 years and expenditure of Israel last 70 years isn't genocid? 🤦

      https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkoSY2…

      • Wolfenstein98k on 31/10/2023 - 10:45
        +2

        A genocide that caused the population to grow faster than almost anywhere else on earth? 18-fastest in the world?

        That's the worst genocide I've ever seen. Australia would be much more populated if someone genocided us like that.

        • Deviner on 31/10/2023 - 13:10
          +2

          Smushing 2 million people into an area less than half the size of Canberra will do that.

          • Wolfenstein98k on 31/10/2023 - 13:42
            +1

            @Deviner: Will cause them to have a high birth rate?

            Why doesn't that happen with Tokyo or Seoul?

            • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 15:24

              @Wolfenstein98k: Perhaps because those peoples aren't refugees in their own lands…. don't have brutal occupying powers…. and are able to act like they control their own fate…. unlike palestinians.

              • Wolfenstein98k on 31/10/2023 - 15:44
                +2

                @rooster7777: I dunno man, if I was a "refugee in my own land" under brutal occupation and unable to control my own fate, I think that would make me less likely to have a flock of kids than if I lived in a rich safe country.

                • rooster7777 on 31/10/2023 - 17:06
                  +1

                  @Wolfenstein98k: Ahhh….so you'd nick off to the casino and blow your benefits check, or down to the pub to watch the big game, or go on a cruise or something…. rather than a simple inexpensive existence where you have no tv, and the lights go off early, and the desperation of daily life don't drive you to find any simple pleasures in life?

                  • rightguy on 01/11/2023 - 23:13
                    +1

                    @rooster7777: You do realize that Palestinians used to run the only legal casino in the region for decades in Jericho right and Israelis were their main customer (like 95% of their customers were Israelis) who had no other option for legal casino gambling in Israel.

                    Also, 20% of the homes in Gaza have solar power and batteries. Pretty much every Gazan home has TV. The Gazan government literally runs its own TV network within the country. If you're upset that they haven't had reasonable power in the last few decades most of that is due to Hamas whose fuel supply was cut off by Qatar and Turkey when they stopped paying their bills and then Egypt cut all power and bulldozed their electrical infrastructure that used to service part of Gaza. Meanwhile Hamas' rockets have damaged so much of the electrical infrastructure of Israel that used to service Gaza that in the last 10 years we've seen Israel capable of supplying 128mW of power to now being able to supply less than 25mW of power. This is to a part of the world whose demand sits at around 500mW. And despite being given $5 billion after the 2014 truce Hamas has not done enough significant upgrades or repairs to the one power station that they've let fall to pieces, again, despite having $5 billion to be able to rectify a number of those issues.

                    Btw Gaza used to have movie theatres but they were burnt down by Muslim extremists back in the first Intifada and then again in 1996.

                    And also Gaza still had a thriving arts scene that included life music, live theatre. Your belief that Gazans singular pleasure was sex with their wives is just silly and is such a prejudiced view of the lives that Gazans lead which is far richer than just sitting at home, staring at a wall and having sex with their wives.

                    • rooster7777 on 02/11/2023 - 07:24

                      @rightguy: ahh…thanks for your comprehensive post.
                      Much of that I wasn't aware of….
                      It's good to hear that the residents of the resort of gaza can pack up and take a taxi to the airport, to visit their friends and family round the world at their leisure, can idle their sunny days lazing at the beach, can travel through their extensive lands sightseeing, can enjoy fruitful careers doing traditional activities or pursuing exciting technologies….and enjoy all the rest of human activity that the destitute, the enslaved, or refugees can only dream of.
                      I wonder why gaza isn't a wildly popular tourist resort….like say israel.

                      I should have realised that a feature of places in the world with high rates of reproduction tend to be opulent, where the wealthy live in luxury….
                      For some strange reason I was thinking that such places in the world tend to live in grinding poverty.

                      • rightguy on 02/11/2023 - 10:17

                        @rooster7777: Most people in the world can't get into a taxi go to the airport and visit their family and friends aboard. That's because most people do not live in wealthy societies with the privilege of having the money to travel let alone travel internationally which requires money to be spent on things like passports, etc.

                        Wealthy Gazan citizens have always had the ability to travel to the Cairo International Airport by going through the border with Egypt whenever that crossing is open. From there they can go on a plane and travelling anywhere in the world to which they could get a visa to travel to. I'm not sure how old you are. I went to university with people from Gaza. I've literally travelled around Europe with people from Gaza. It could be that you don't know anyone from Gaza or have met anyone from Gaza. I'm not sure. Israel - until Oct 7 had a policy whereby Gazans could apply for a permit/visa to travel through Israel to Amman to travel overseas. There were Gazans on October 6 who were taking advantage of that.

                        Until the Second Intifada Gazans had the Yasser Arafat International Airport which they could use to travel anywhere. It was heavily damaged in the Second Intifada and the plan was to rebuild it but then Hamas came into power and that hope ended. If Hamas didn't exist in Gaza now they would absolutely have a working airport. There are funds currently sitting frozen waiting to repair the airport that will be unfrozen once Hamas is out of power.

                        Gazans absolutely can spend their sunny days lazing at the beach. They have a remarkable beach. I've surfed with people who grew up surfing on Al Deira beach and talk about how amazing it was growing up surfing there. I honestly don't think you have an accurate picture of Gazan life and what an ordinary citizen of Gaza went through day to day prior to this conflict.

                        Gaza was starting to gain traction as a tourist spot in the late 1990s. When Hamas came to power that all went to shit. That's just how reality worked. Typically to be a tourist spot you want to be a safe place with stability that isn't run by a terrorist organization. You also want to invest in infrastructure for tourists instead of investing in military capability. You cannot attract tourists without tourist spots. And you can't create tourist spots without getting investments. And who the heck is going to invest hundreds of millions in building tourist attractions in a country run by Hamas? Do you think that that's a good investment? If a Gazan came to you with a business proposal for a tourist spot and asked you to loan them money with a promise to pay you back at 1000% interest would you empty out your superannuation and hand it over to them? No. Because it's an unstable government that enters conflict with their next door neighbour needlessly. People still invest heavily in Israel. Despite Israel not having a great beloved government it still has stability and it doesn't try to get into violent conflicts with militarily superior neighbours. Because having that as your policy is a dogshit policy for creating wealth and prosperity for your people.

                        Also the birth rate in Gaza is not much higher than the birth rate in Israel. I mean it's higher but not much. Does that mean that Israel too has a high birth rate because they are very poor people living in horrible conditions? Because I always thought that Israel was a fairly developed and wealthy country. I guess I was wrong and Israel is poor people too.

          • rightguy on 01/11/2023 - 22:57

            @Deviner: To be fair after the war of 1948 there were only 200,000 people in Gaza which is also half the population of Canberra. So I'm not sure what your argument is are you saying that Canberra is terribly overpopulated and that Australian has smushed those people together?

    • Matcha Latte on 31/10/2023 - 04:16
      +6

      Tell me you have zero understanding about the historical context and actual statistics without saying it.

    • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 19:11

      they're not supporting isreal which is an entity based on mass genocide and ethnic cleansing they are supporting the Palestinians

  • noshopping on 31/10/2023 - 03:46

    Take out HAMAS
    Protect civilians, especially children

    These videos break my heart.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/comments/17jpxn5/isr…

    If you have kids, you'll understand the pain:
    https://twitter.com/bashdar1986/status/1718766622180278771

    • Matcha Latte on 31/10/2023 - 04:15
      +6

      Way I see it is best way to look at it is these children who live become Hamas. If your family was slaughtered Infront of you, your houses stolen and every aspect of your life controlled; to an extent you would want revenge. Doesnt justify 7Ocb but important to acknowledge the content :)

      • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 09:33

        In what case did an Israeli army slaughtered families? Which houses were stolen in Gaza? Which aspects of life are controlled in self governing Gaza?

        • Matcha Latte on 31/10/2023 - 11:39
          +4

          since 1948 mate please maybe do actual research and not just think social media is good enough.

          History for you: 1948 Israel paramilitary forces did what is called the Nakba. They forcefully removed 750,000 Palestinians and killed 15,000 (https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba)
          Since then Israel has been commiting massacres and forceful removals from within the west bank (https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2023/5/15/the-nakba-five-…) (https://mondoweiss.net/2018/04/unhappy-history-massacres/)

          For aspects of life literally everything is controlled by Israel its hardly self governing. Power, Water, Food, Airspace (They blew up the only airport in Gaza in early 2000's), physically anything or anyone coming in or out which is why it's called the world's biggest open air prison. (https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/06/14/gaza-israels-open-air-pr…) (https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-…)

          Please actually do proper research and hsve some humanity.

          • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 11:43
            -1

            @Matcha Latte: You probably don't realise that in 1947 the UN accepted a 2 state solution which the jewish population accepted while the arab population denied. Followed by the war in 1948 that was initiated by the Arab countries surrounding Israel.

            The blockade on Gaza strip is in effect since 2005 when Hamas started to seize control of the strip and took the full control of it by 2007. The blockade is by both Israel and Egypt. The entrance to Gaza is done via both Israel and Egypt.

            Don't flex on me with half facts.

            • Matcha Latte on 31/10/2023 - 12:09
              +3

              @SolidlyIrresponsible: Oh I 100% do know about it but that two state solution and the multiple proposed in the same period all were inherently bias to Zionists; either by land percentage or land worth (aswell as not being within the scope of the UN Charter)
              (https://www.csis.org/analysis/israel-and-palestinians-two-st…)

              Egypt only has the Rafah Crossing, but if you dont understand why they don't let refugees in i can't be bothered to give you a history lesson.

              Btw Israeli paramilitary forces started the conflict in 1947-8 (https://www.un.org/unispal/about-the-nakba/) (https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2022/8/7/timeline-israels…)

              Maybe actually learn the history and not spread your inherent misinformation

              • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 12:18
                +1

                @Matcha Latte: Funny you are focusing on land percentages as some sort of sign to injustice given that the majority of the lands that was allocated to the jews was the desert on the south (Negev).

                Egypt only has the Rafah Crossing, but if you dont understand why they don't let refugees in i can't be bothered to give you a history lesson.

                But why/how is that Israel's fault?

                Btw Israeli paramilitary forces started the conflict

                So Israel attacked 5 Arab countries it borders with in May 1948?

                • Matcha Latte on 31/10/2023 - 12:21
                  +3

                  @SolidlyIrresponsible: Again go learn your own history theres something called Google because no matter what ill say you won't actually listen as you've already dehumanized Palestinians. Shame on you.

            • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 14:37
              +1

              @SolidlyIrresponsible: Since when UN can divide countries and give away land that belong to another people? Also you forgot to mention isreal ethnically cleansed 750 thousands Palestinians through terror and genocide, the same resolution mandated the return of these refugees.

              • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 14:44
                +1

                @subwoofer: Well, if you don't believe in the power of UN to make resolutions, why do you give other UN actions such a large weight?

                If you don't believe in the right of Israel to exist, we don't really have anything to discuss about really. Israel is a fact. It exists and it will continue to exists. If you are truely care about Palestinians your first priority should be removing the Hamas from control in the strip and reaching a peace agreement with Israel.

                You stories about ethnical cleansing conveniently omit the fact that there are over two million Israeli arabs living under the Israeli flag. In 48 there was a war. People leave their homes during wars. This isn't new phenomena.

                • subwoofer on 31/10/2023 - 14:55

                  @SolidlyIrresponsible: Hamas is manufactured by isreal so you can have them, they are the trojan horse of the Palestinian cause. Also isreal is an outlaw state that never cared about UN resolutions. There are 27 UN resolutions that isreal ignored and did not implement.

                  They are not israeli arabs, they prefer to be called Palestinian Arabs, and thank you for turning them from being 98% of the population to a 'non Jewish minority'

                  • SolidlyIrresponsible on 31/10/2023 - 14:59
                    +1

                    @subwoofer: You don't seem to really generate a coherent line of reasoning. From one side you say UN have no authority, on the other hand you claim their authority isn't respected by Israel. Which one is it?

                    And I'm not the one who started a war on 5 fronts in 48 and lost.

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