Prices are going Down Down Down @ Tesla
With rebates in some states this makes a good enough car with good range specially that can go from 0-100 in 4.4 seconds if that's what tickles you. Me personally would not buy anything that's not LFP.
Please note this is not the Highland which is MY23.5
Tesla thinking: “how can we make our drivers more like BMW drivers”
I'd pay more for the stalks. At least have it as an option ffs
Next they will replace the steering wheel with a touchscreen pad
How do you indicate if there's no stalks?
The indicators are buttons on the steering wheel. Fine if the wheel is centered but if you are trying to indicate while the wheel is turned you gotta quickly figure out where the indicator buttons are now as it might be on the bottom or left or right or top depending on how you’ve turned the steering wheel
Yep. Why make your cars harder to use.
This is for the 2023 model with indicators
Highland is better in some ways, worse in others. Replacing the indicator stalks with non fixed buttons on the steering wheel is not an improvement.
Would this be a good car to use for Uber?
No, Menulog only
I'm talking about Uber X, not Uber Eats.
you might want to read about a giant USA car rental company getting rid of all of its Tesla inventory.
@backupper1: Same one that cancelled the buying of 65000 polestars and is reverting back to combustion engines.
EVs that are actually a very bad idea from an ecological, financial as well as an engineering pov.
that's a big claim. the engineering bit is actually the opposite, as it's simple electrical energy to kinetic energy. Hydrogen is chemical energy to electrical energy to kinetic energy.
Financial, well like all things, it depends on usage. EV have much lower running costs and less maintenance. Hydrogen vehicle is much more expensive to build, fuel and maintain. So I'm not sure where the savings are.
Ecological, well I'm guess you actually mean environmental? That aspect is an interesting one. All sides used selective facts to claim one is better then the other (that's not just Hydrogen vs EV Battery, it's all the energy debates). I have no idea what technology is better and I doubt many if any one does. Certainly there isn't a one energy source is better then everything else.
all in all, like everything it depends on the application. Some situations, fossil fuels make perfect sense.
@M00Cow: interesting points.
EVs are great but battery ev are bad because:
engineering:
- dead weight that always hangs on, very poor design choice that makes scale up too hard.
- cannot be used for large vehicles like jumbo jets, ships, trucks etc
- performs differently based on temperature (like recent reports in usa of tesla fail in cold weather )
environmental
- rare earth elements mining is devastating for the ecology of the place where its done
- ev fires are toxic and hazardous
financial
- very high upfront and then very high maintenance, costs.
- economy on mercy of single or a few countries like china(that west cannot invade or control like middle east for oil)
hydrogen is very versatile eg can be used in all applications, can be used in ships big airplanes trucks etc, can be used as an ICE or as a fuel cell ev or as a hybrid, can also be produced at home, no reliance on foreign nation and many more.
now that toyota and bmw are coming with hydrogen based ev , it looks really promising.
as @furiousgeorge stated below that ev sales are down and the major reason is because of too many shortcomings.
@backupper1: ok, this is a Tesla discussion, so you're engineering examples aren't really relevant (comes back to my point about "it depends on the application.".
Economy argument about relying on a few countries for materials, namely China is also incorrect. Australia, Canada, USA, South America, Africa, Asia and Eastern Europe where the mineral resources are spread covers most of the world.
Hydrogen will probably be the choice for long distance transport. But sunce the vast majority of passenger vehicles travel less the 200km/day EV is the economical choice. If that once or twice a year you want to travel 500+km/day, then sure hire a hydrogen or fossil fuel vehicle.
unless hydrogen gets to say $1/10km, then it's not very economical in the long term. And it's bloody expensive to build. EV's are 20-30+% more then their comparable fossil fuel equivalent. But there running costs age much lower. Hydrogen vehicles are more again with similar running costs.
Maybe in 5-15yrs there will be savings, but at the moment, i can't see how they stack up.
personally I'm sticking with fossil fuel cars. They're they're still much cheaper to buy and run.
@backupper1: Hydrogen is a fail. Look at California , hydrogen infrastructure capital of the US. Ripping it all out. Hybrid cars will win out in the end and many will learn an expensive lesson.
Everyone who wanted an electric car , has one. That’s why EV prices are down down down and they will continue going down down down cause demand is down down down.
@furiousgeorge: hydrogen is fail in usa because in capitalist usa the oil companies know what its potential is. hydrogen can also be utilised for ev or ice ie hybrid as well. definitely battery ev are an expensive mistake. in the short run hybrids will come out as winner no doubt but long term hydrogen will be in.
see japan going all out on hydrogen and so is China after ccp realised its mistake in blindly copying tesla into ev.
@backupper1: I don't mean to offend, but the majority of the information you're getting this from is fiction.
Hydrogen is just too complex to generate, transport, store and dispense - and expensive. Studies show to $5 or $7 dollars a litre of diesel equivalent.
From an economics perspective (and market share, of which hydrogen powered vehicles don't actually have any) the writing is already on the wall, with EV uptake rising steadily globally. Media seems to make a song and dance about the demand going down - not the case. The rate of growth in EV adoption has slightly decreased, though still rising steadily.
Hydrogen still has a place, not in volume light vehicles, but potentially in shipping / logistics, fuel cells for remote power generation, and other special cases where the business case can justify the high cost - or engineer it out with infrastructure if the use case can justify it.
With the significant losses involved converting energy from electric > chemical > electric again, the question needs to be asked whether it's more cost effective and pragmatic stay with electric in the first place.
https://thedriven.io/2023/06/23/nothing-can-compete-finkel-c…
@furiousgeorge: "Everyone who wanted an electric car, has one." - I bet that comment will age well :-)
You might want to have a look at the sale numbers curve of basically every country with large percentage of EVs. It looks exactly the same as here, just we are just a few years earlier on the curve.
I'd buy a Tesla if the dashboard was better not an ipad stuck in the middle of the dash.
What EV did you buy instead?
Kia EV6. Love it!
Next time you will know that you can retrofit a great gauge cluster to the steering column, it looks OEM, Google Mickey mouse gauge cluster. Also get the swivel mount for the middle big screen and tilt/swivel towards driver and it makes it feel and look like a cockpit.
So you prefer a car that doesn't have a mobile app, need to go to the dealer to get updates, and have to wait a long time to get one. Each to their own I guess.
I like petrol. Battery is of course much cleaner but we live in Australia, most of our electricity is comes from coal so I’m not sure why people want to buy electric.
If you own your own home, installing solar panels + EV would be the way to go
Obviously petrol has it's conveniences, but in answer to your question, an ICE has terrible energy conversion efficiency, coal plants (or pretty much any steam turbine) is very high efficiency for producing mass electricity. Not to mention how much cheaper the energy is per km compared to petrol.
That's also ignoring that more and more of our grid is being supplied by renewables, which is only going to increase inevitably all of the time.
FYI I drive an old petrol car 🙃
@sbcbakedbeans: Which is still the most environmentally friendly thing you can actually do in majority of cases, and by a sizable margin (keep your existing petrol car in good working order). Of course, all of this means two fifths of bugger all until China and India actually take measures to reduce their emissions. Until then, there is little reason for anyone to feel any form of guilt or pressure other than to keep our air ways and water ways adequately clear.
@Xizor: You should look into how much China is actually converting to renewables, it frankly embarrasses Australia. They have very few domestically available fossile fuels, so it's in their best interest to become energy independent. Not to say they aren't responsible for a massive amount of pollution and waste, but they've also been supplying countries like ours with cheap manufacturing for decades, so it's hard to throw stones you know? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@sbcbakedbeans: Actually supply to Australia is the most expensive. You get the same stuff across the equator and its cheaper shipped. Think laptops, phones etc
@sbcbakedbeans: I'm an advocate of renewables as much as anyone with common sense. How far sense is applied is a whole other matter. What China convert to renewables is a total separate matter. From a environmental policy perspective given the scale of polluting it borders on irrelevance, and will for quite a while. For the time being China does not care one bit about renewables other than to undercut and dominate the market. China is laughing all the way to the bank while the West handicapped itself with strategic incompetence the past 20 years. These days instead we have well intentioned but illogically aggressive and still strategically stupid energy policies (haphazard, not based on decades long outlook). China aren't dumb, they are building bucket loads of power plants of all kinds, including more coal plants than the rest of the world combined. The point is how much they are polluting, and will continue to for many decades. Very little to applaud China for… or ourselves, for that matter.
@sbcbakedbeans: Er, China is the largest coal producer in the world - 4 billion tonnes of coal a year, about 8 times as much as Australia:
https://www.globaldata.com/data-insights/macroeconomic/the-t….
They also have 6 times as much coal electricity generation planned as the rest of the world combined and are building about 2 new coal plants a week:
https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-…
Yes, they are building lots of renewables too, but fossil fuel is doing just fine in China.
@sbcbakedbeans: (profanity) here. I drive a massive dual cab diesel around the suburbs. I've never even looked in the tray.
Not sure about other states, but SA electricity is mostly solar and wind.
Using Amber energy I can see what percentage of electricity is renewable at any time during the day, and at most times (when car is charging) renewals make up between 80 and 110% of the grid (I get paid to charge when it goes about 100%).
I still also own a diesel vehicle for long trips, but for 99% of trips it's crazy not to use the EV.
Not in SA. NONE of our electricty comes from coal except that dirty stuff we need to import on the odd occasion
If you’re anywhere on the eastern side on Australia nearly 40% of your electricity last year came from renewables. SA had over 70%. Last quarter, 82% of SA electricity came from renewables. That figure is only going up as we’re building more solar and wind generation all the time.
So sure, even though technically “most” of our electricity is from fossil fuels, it’s not that much more, and it’s not something you’re going to be able to say for much longer. It also certainly isn’t a reason to discourage people from getting EVs.
Source: OpenNEM
I installed aftermarket dash mounted to steering wheel column. Has a great Speedo on it and I can keep my eyes forward. Love it. Anyone in Brissy wants to see and ride in one then reach out and I'll show you. LR with acceleration boost gets me to 100km/hr in 3.8s
Which model of the dash did you get? I've been considering one, at the right price….
I got the one that is referred to as Mickey mouse ears…. Two round gauges…. I never like the alternative tablet look as a dash. The round ones definitely compliments the car IMHO.
Tesla screen is far far far better than Polestars display. I liked that polestar feels a bit more car like and prefer the dash cluster
However, the infotainment unit is so clunky that it would stop me from buying one.
Feels like a chinese android tablet/cheap aftermarket headunit compared to the tesla which feels more like a proper apple/samsung device.
Also wasn't a fan of the auto reverse braking, multiple times it would not allow me to reverse and smash on the brakes thinking I was going to reverse into things, including those wheel stops on the ground to stop you going too far back
Are you shopping cars or iPads?
Considering pretty well everything is done through the infotainment screen I think it is very important…
Better question is do you ever contribute here or just make unnecessary comments? Feel free to interject with your personal experience.
1200 comments and 0 posts hmm
@Brick50: Any future comments I have I will be ran past you first to ensure that they meet your requirements. I didnt realise about the no comment rule if your havent posted
?
Think @TheCunningLinguist is referring to BYD owners
No, I don't think I will.
Why do you need to be Chinese to buy Made in China stuff?
Well if you can’t tell by looking…
How much more is the 'current' model? Seems to be a big improvement (from my vague YouTube vids)
It won't be advertised but there will be a lot of upgrades under the bonnet, so to speak, that would make the newest models much more efficient and worth it.
Removal of indicator stalks in new model is a massive downgrade
Yes probably for the same people who get frustrated when the indicator is on the opposite side.
@Herbse: At least if they were on the opposite side the indicators would still always be in the same position regardless of the position of the steering wheel. With this new Tesla the indicators could be in any position depending on the position of the steering wheel. I think they assume nobody indicates unless the wheel is dead centered straight. They probably don’t have roundabouts in USA with multiple exit points or they don’t have roads where you turn left and then have to immediately turn right after
Think of the weight savings!
Liar. I checked one in the showroom and there was nothing under the bonnet
$10k difference, or $13k/$16k in Queensland ($3k/$6k rebate only for the <$70k cars)
10k differenc. The big improvements are to interior and ride quality. It's the same platform and bones. Depending on who you ask, the omission of stalks and switch to camera sensors is potentially a deal-breaker.
Base model Tesla or BYD performance for around the same price?
You mean Model 3 LR for almost same performance (3.8s vs 4.4s).
Difference is $6k with Tesla cheaper. In Qld it's $9k or $12k depending on rebate. That's a fair chunk of change.
Get the BYD Seal Premium instead.
Out of curiosity, would it be possible to purchase a car in qld for the rebate, and drive it down then register it in NSW myself?
You'd likely need a Qld ID, if it's state govt. rebate.
Username checks out
This or BYD Seal Performance for 68k + on road costs?
Imo Seal is nicer inside and out.
Just depends if it's worth an extra $9k or $12k for you.
Resale value of these are terrible with battery degradation and replacement costs.
Weird cause I'm seeing 2021 model 3s for sale for 55 to 60k. Seems like a high resale to me
They're dreaming. No one will be buying them.
People on Tesla owners FB group are definitely reporting poor resale. Those advertised high prices are going to stay there for a long time.
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/details/2021-tesla-model-3-… than this one must be a bargain! Carsales too so heavily inflated price to what you'd get on marketplace. Not even 3 years old but 30k below what it was purchased for 🧐
That car has done 105,000km, which is more like 7 years of driving for the average user. It's also out of warranty now, which may reduce the value somewhat.
Having said that, it's a great deal and I'd be happy to consider buying it…..but I already have one.
@mandelbrot: Evidence from earlier models suggest that the battery is good for at least another 100,000km without too much degradation, probably longer. Batteries in the earliest versions of the Model S are lasting beyond 400,000km.
Fears about battery replacement are vastly over-stated and are mostly talking points for uninformed nay-sayers.
@Circly: Sure, but it's unlikely to be needed until the rest of the vehicle is also pretty worn out. How many passenger cars make it to 400,000km without needing a major engine or gearbox rebuild?
@klaw81: From Recurrent fleet study:
"We saw increased numbers of non-recall battery replacements in:
2013 Tesla Model S (8.5%)
2014 Tesla Model S (7.3%)"
8.5% is a significantly high risk of high cost.
Resale value on all cars bought new is terrible. If anything teslas have better than most resale
Rubbish. Battery replacements cost tens of thousands of dollars. More than what the car would be worth after 10 years.
No one in their right mind would buy an EV with a 7 - 10 year old battery.
Theres a reason why car rental providers are dropping EVs and going back to ICEs and not just for the reasons specified above.
have teslas already been around 10 years ?!
i believe the reason the rental providers were dropping them was not to do with the batteries but the body panels (but i could be wrong)
@juki: Car rental companies in the US specifically. They went in way too deep and way too fast; their customers had EVs foisted upon them with no assistance or pre-drive training - horror stories from US customers are really common, particularly among non-Tesla rentals that needed to use the extremely unreliable Electrify America charging network.
(Public charging in the US is a total mess and will remain so for at least another year or two until they have a standardized charge plug across all vehicles, while Australia ad Europe are already almost entirely unified on the international CCS standard).
Also, US rental operations were totally unprepared for the need for fast on-site charging of multiple vehicles and had to make up policy and procedures on the fly. Staff training, delays in getting suitable repairs and the aforementioned depreciation issues also contributed. It was a disaster waiting to happen.
The Australian fleet of EV rentals has had some of the same challenges, but AFAIK are still in service and are performing reasonably well, according to a recent chat I had with an agent.
@juki: Telsa Model S launch is nearly 12 years ago. The Model 3 was first available in 2019, so the very oldest ones on our roads are 5 years old.
@klaw81: yeah i googled it after posting, wow time flies Oo (i'm personally happy with a small petrol car and cant imagine spending that much on a vehicle, my midlife crisis has me going backwards)
Who in their right mind would pay for a car that has run past 160000km even though only 4-5 yrs old as the battery will be out of warranty. Definitely wouldn't be me, even if it's cheap.
A private buyer might save a bucks on fuel bills but a rental company doesn't get any benefit from that. They sell the customer fuel (profit) and the customer does the refilling while renting it.
Rental companies dumped them over costs. A cheaper ICE provides the same income at a lower starting cost, smaller depreciation losses, lower insurance costs and less customer issues.
For reference, Drive Aus ranked Tesla model 3 number 2 on their list for 2023 cars with best resale: https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/cars-with-best-resale-val…
That was clearly before this deal just wiped $10k off the LR
![[QLD] Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD MY23 (Old Model, Less than 50km on Odometer) $63,570 + On-Road Cost @ Tesla](https://files.ozbargain.com.au/n/44/831844.jpg?h=c42c3a5e)
Removal of the indicator stalks is an instant dealbreaker.