Any Thoughts on SMSF Bitcoin + Traditional Super in Cash?

welcomeUniverseWorld on 14/06/2025 - 20:38

A few years ago, I established a Self-Managed Super Fund (SMSF) and used part of my superannuation to invest in Bitcoin. I have held that position firmly since then. Meanwhile, my original traditional super fund continues to receive my employer contributions and remains allocated to a low-risk, cash-based option.

Currently, the SMSF significantly exceeds the traditional super in dollar value. However, given Bitcoin's volatility, this may change over time. I estimate that I have at least 15 more years in the workforce.

My Bitcoin holdings would only incur a loss if the price fell below $21,000—the level at which I originally purchased. This means the SMSF has a considerable cushion, though the risk remains high. If I were to hold the SMSF for another 15 years, that would likely span at least three Bitcoin market cycles.

My questions are:

  1. Given my time horizon, would you recommend holding the SMSF Bitcoin position for the next 15 years?
  2. Is maintaining a low-risk, cash-based option in the traditional super fund an inefficient strategy, considering the 15 years long time left until retirement? Would it be advisable to increase exposure to higher-growth assets?
    3 Should I switch to a diversified growth or high-growth option within traditional super? Most large super funds (e.g., AustralianSuper, Hostplus, Aware Super) offer life-stage options that adjust over time. Should I explore that?

I would appreciate your guidance on how to best align both portfolios with my long-term goals.
Currently, I am really thinking of selling all my Bitcoins into cash and come back into it 2 years later.

Financial Cryptocurrency Superannuation

Comments

  • Loubon on 14/06/2025 - 20:54
    +10

    Go and get some professional advice.

  • 7ekn00 on 14/06/2025 - 20:56
    -8

    Transfer to ADA (Cardano), much better use and growth potential ;)

    um, not financial advice, do not take financial advice from rando's on the internet

    • welcomeUniverseWorld on 14/06/2025 - 20:58

      My SMSF will never go outside Bitcoin.

      • mskeggs on 14/06/2025 - 21:03
        +2

        Sounds more like religion than investing.

    • Lucille Bluth on 15/06/2025 - 03:40

      Transfer to ADA (Cardano), much better use and growth potential ;)

      .

      All-Time High US$3.09
      Current price US$0.62

      Return -79.8%

      I'll stick to my Bitcoin, instead of lining the pockets of Charles, the unstable founder of this shitcoin that has unlimited supply. It hasn't even been able to get anywhere near it's previous ATH from 2021. That's why no company is rushing to create a Cardano reserve.

      • welcomeUniverseWorld on 15/06/2025 - 12:23
        +2

        As of today, nothing has beaten Bitcoin in terms of stability, longevity and price rise.

  • askbargain on 14/06/2025 - 21:02
    +2

    How can we help without knowing your balance. I doubt you’re willing to share that info. Useless post.

    • welcomeUniverseWorld on 14/06/2025 - 21:03
      -6

      You do not need my balance. Thanks for your post

      • askbargain on 14/06/2025 - 21:57
        +3

        So you expect us to tell you if you have enough super to retire in 15 years…

        • Loubon on 15/06/2025 - 06:21
          +5

          I dont think so. He just wants us to tell him he's really smart for having an sms that invested in BTC and hes definitely going to retire as a multi millionaire.

          • welcomeUniverseWorld on 15/06/2025 - 12:24

            @Loubon: I believe every human possesses intelligence in one form or another. However, our daily responsibilities and constant errands often leave little room for creative or out-of-the-box thinking.

      • Loubon on 15/06/2025 - 06:18
        +1

        If you were to retire today you would need an income of $50k a year to be anywhere near comfortable in retirement.

        Depending on where you live and MANY other factors.

        If you dont own your own home then you would need more.

        Given real inflation, in 15 years you can pick your own number, but its going to be a LOT more than $50k.

        So without providing your current balance as a starting point, and the lack of any other real info provided, it just sounds like you are really here to try and get reassurance on Bitcoin's future, given its current volatility and the geopolitical landscape.

        If you are truly worried about volatility in crypto/financial markets over the next 15 years then again professional advice/retirement planning is obvious.

        There are other asset classes that typically do well in these cases, which you have not even mentioned.

        Btw I am a "retired" ex stockbroker/financial planner with many years in the game.

        I wish you luck.

        • welcomeUniverseWorld on 15/06/2025 - 12:25

          Thank mate. It provides me a different way of thinking. I will consider it

    • mskeggs on 14/06/2025 - 21:04
      +3

      Users post history suggests they have a modest balance. The Bitcoin gamble might be the only way they get a retirement balance if their main super is in cash.

  • mskeggs on 14/06/2025 - 21:12
    +4

    I think there is a risk with Bitcoin as the only uses that drive demand (acknowledging it has speculation demand) are around crime, money laundering and tax evasion.
    If the use of Bitcoin for cyber crime and avoiding Chinese capital controls and hiding assets from ex-spouses becomes a big enough burden, there will be regulations that make those uses much harder.
    And if that happens, all that is left is a Dutch tulip.

    Plenty of people made lots of money from tulips, pets.com stock, roaring 20s radio shares and 1870s railroad stocks. But not the people who held them last

    • welcomeUniverseWorld on 14/06/2025 - 21:17

      You raise valid concerns.

      I’m also increasingly uneasy about ongoing global conflicts. If these continue over an extended period - say, ten to twelve years - with successive crises, Bitcoin could face prolonged pressure. In such a scenario, persistent inflation might dominate the economic landscape, shifting focus away from assets like Bitcoin. Its appeal may weaken if inflation & living under crisis becomes structural and investor behavior adjusts accordingly.

      • mskeggs on 14/06/2025 - 21:28
        +1

        Those concerns are common for everything that has run up in the last decade.
        Look at historical price ratios for almost any asset and they are unhinged.
        Real estate, gold, tech stocks, most other stocks, farmland, art, watches, classic cars and Bitcoin.

        All these are priced above perfection, and will fall. But the have also been going gangbusters for over a decade (albeit a COVID glitch) so there isn't any real way to avoid participating if you want to live in society.

        When the downturn does come, it will be good to not be in debt, and not to own tech stocks and Bitcoin and highly leveraged property.

        But some investments will get preferred treatment because the government will step in, like home owners, bank deposits and I suspect, some common super funds.

        If there is a great depression 2.0 style situation, it will be important that people depending on super for retirement not starve, or go on the pension en masse. So I expect big super funds will be protected species.

        Worth considering, because SMSFs certainly won't get the same help. I say this while my own super is in a SMSF, but it won't be after I retire.

        • welcomeUniverseWorld on 15/06/2025 - 12:28

          You're right. I’m not necessarily expecting a Depression 2.0 either, but it’s hard to ignore that the world hasn’t meaningfully improved since the onset of COVID-19. One crisis seems to follow another, each more disheartening than the last.

          The pandemic was chaotic - at one point, oil futures even turned negative. Now, we’re seeing certain stocks behave like volatile "shitcoins." The broader environment feels unstable, yet there seems to be a surprising lack of concern or accountability.

    • welcomeUniverseWorld on 14/06/2025 - 21:19

      We are witnessing an alarming number of geopolitical flashpoints:

      • Iran vs. Israel
      • China vs. Taiwan
      • North Korea vs. South Korea
      • India vs. Pakistan
      • Ongoing tensions in Myanmar involving the Arakan Army
      • Independence movements in India’s northeastern states
      • Separatist unrest in parts of Pakistan
      • Persistent civil unrest in several European regions
      • Increasing instability in major U.S. cities

      The cumulative effect of these conflicts could have long-term implications for global stability, economic growth, and investor sentiment. Prolonged geopolitical uncertainty tends to reshape capital flows, risk appetite, and the viability of assets like Bitcoin

      • mskeggs on 14/06/2025 - 21:32
        +2

        I really need to advise these flashpoints are considerably lower geopolitical risks than most times in the last 50 years.
        The USA is a mess, and if india/Pakistan went nuclear it would be grim, but all the things you list existed approximately as bad in 1989, 2001, 2010 and 2020.

        This geopolitical noise doesn't move markets in any meaningful way over even the medium term.

      • Protractor on 14/06/2025 - 22:47

        Well for one thing, Israel is the new super power dude. Follows no rules, nobody has the balls to call them out.They ignore the rules of warfare, and are enacting on others what was enacted upon them, and calling it self defence.
        Even Putin is sitting on his hands as the middle east is razed via the Israelis and the Yanks.Princess Trump is showing he has less balls than brains, and I though that was impossible. Just do what Trump recommends. He's the prophet (LOL)

        • mskeggs on 14/06/2025 - 23:37

          I've got to agree that the idea the Oct 7 crimes absolve Israel to do anything they want is an incredible stain on them and all of us, but it won't be of importance in the scheme of things for financial markets.

          • Protractor on 15/06/2025 - 09:59
            -1

            @mskeggs: Unless of course you factor in the teen weeny thing called fuel. Prices will go ballistic this time.

            • welcomeUniverseWorld on 15/06/2025 - 12:31

              @Protractor: Already up in the market. It was up 12% at certain point from bottom to low on last Friday. Imagine the scenarios we might be walking ourself into.

        • welcomeUniverseWorld on 15/06/2025 - 12:30

          It feels similar to the aftermath of 9/11. While the 9/11 undeniably tragic and devastating, the actions taken in response across various regions of the world remain deeply controversial to this day. The long-term consequences of those interventions continue to raise questions.

      • 7ekn00 on 15/06/2025 - 08:44
        -1

        If you believe that, shift your money to Defence ETFs …

        My DFEN ETF has made 70+% this year :D Easily beating inflation, shinkflation and stagflation!

        • Protractor on 15/06/2025 - 10:14

          So, fund warfare? Very cool! May as well throw a % into grave digging businesses,too.
          Conscription could also help boost your coffers.

      • djones145 on 15/06/2025 - 10:03
        +1

        best invest in weapons manufacturing then

        my pick, Aerotyne International. It is a cutting edge high-tech firm out of the Midwest awaiting imminent patent approval on the next generation of radar detectors that have both huge military and civilian applications now

  • SBOB on 14/06/2025 - 21:23

    I do appreciate the market 'top' signals that we get on here when the rate of btc/crypto related posts take a clear up tick.

  • soan papdi on 14/06/2025 - 22:09
    +2

    I’m more concerned about your cash investment. That’s a sure way to erode your super over time. If you have 15 years I hope you are topping up your super as best as you can and investing in a balanced growth option

    • [Deactivated] on 14/06/2025 - 22:22
      +3

      why over 15 years in a balanced growth; and not in a high growth immediately?
      Yep, cash seems to be the worst investment option:
      https://www.australiansuper.com/compare-us/our-performance?s…

    • mskeggs on 14/06/2025 - 23:04
      +1

      I’m usually arguing that excess super saving needs to be balanced against making sure you spend enough to have a good quality of life in the present.
      But here it seems like changing the investment option to favour growth is the first change needed, and considering whether exiting bitcoin and moving that into low fee super would be the second step.
      After that, I’m not sure extra super is smart - OP was recently closing Netflix to make ends meet, so I am inclined to think there isn’t much left for extra super.

      To be clear, I think a cost like Netflix is definitely the kind of lifestyle expense I wouldn’t drop for extra super contributions - even though I am disgusted by the price rises etc, the extra $250 a year if you enjoy it is peanuts in the big scheme. If you can skip a new car and put the $5k avoided depreciation into super it swings the needle, not $250.

      • welcomeUniverseWorld on 15/06/2025 - 12:39

        You're absolutely correct. I don’t have any extra to contribute to super at the moment.

        I will consider rebalancing portion of the risky SMSF into the lower-fee structure of the traditional super fund. I may choose to reallocate back into the higher-risk Bitcoin SMSF in a 2 years time, but that will depend on future circumstances.

  • Protractor on 14/06/2025 - 22:42
    -2

    Invest in as many crypto as you can for dear life. Get rid of all other investment strategies in your life and in super. Go hard in bitcoin and his cousins. For dear life.

    • mskeggs on 14/06/2025 - 23:05
      +1

      You’ll certainly have plenty of buddies to commiserate with if it goes wrong!

    • welcomeUniverseWorld on 15/06/2025 - 12:41

      No cousins involved, bro! 😄

      My SMSF will likely touch Bitcoin only. Looking back, had I known how some other "meme coins" would perform, investing in them might have either been a retirement-level win or a total wipeout.

  • DingoBilly on 15/06/2025 - 05:44
    +4

    This is the opposite of investing. Putting your super into bitcoin and cash at the same time is crazy illogical. You're just gambling at this stage. Good luck but no (profanity) way am I gambling my life savings away personally.

    • Protractor on 15/06/2025 - 10:36
      +3

      Fool & his money etc. Goes with the territory, in this case even more so..

  • Leiothrix on 15/06/2025 - 08:00
    +3

    You used some of your super to speculate on bitcoin. Bitcoin has no underlying value and does not generate income, it is only worth what the current fashion says it is worth.

    Bog standard advice would be to buy some index trackers — VAS, VGS, VDHG or similar. Or perhaps invest in commercial property.

    You may make money but it is a gamble.

  • vorsprung on 15/06/2025 - 08:24
    +3

    If you’re 15 years away from retirement I would seek some financial advice to safely maximize the returns from your super until retirement. Otherwise, you might not be retiring in 15 years.

    If you think you’ll heed better advice on your own or from Ozbargain forum oracles, then good luck to you.

  • Malik Nasser on 15/06/2025 - 09:53
    +3

    If it is causing you stress, it just means your Bitcoin allocation size is too big. You just need to rebalance.
    Sell down part of your Bitcoin balance and transfer it to a growth ETF (Betashares Global Shares ETF or similar).
    You don't have to sell all of your Bitcoin. I would still have some exposure to Bitcoin.
    Bitcoin has done well for you, so sell down your original investment amount, and leave your profits invested. That way even if Bitcoin goes to zero, it would have cost you nothing.

    As for your tradition super in cash, and still having 15 years till retirement, well that is a much bigger concern.
    There is and always has been uncertainty. Don't try to time the market.
    Just invest in growth ETF's and don't think about it. Over the long term the market returns around 8%-12%, even with all the crap that goes on in the world.
    Best of luck.

  • Universal Constant on 15/06/2025 - 11:37
    +1

    Have a look at youtuber Sebastian St James specifically the one about stock market predictability (96.1%). This is based on historical mathmatical analysis over a long time. No one can 100% predict the future but the crux is the time frame and the %.
    You might like to compare the stock market to bitcoin over the SAME TIME frame as a comparison. Could be interesting.

  • SlickMick on 15/06/2025 - 11:51
    1. Given my time horizon, would you recommend holding the SMSF Bitcoin position for the next 15 years?

    If you believe in the underlying value of your investment, why would you sell? If you don't, why do you hold?

    1. Is maintaining a low-risk, cash-based option in the traditional super fund an inefficient strategy

    Yes. That not an investment, you're going backwards.

    1. Should I switch to a diversified growth or high-growth option within traditional super?

    No. Why pay a super fund when you have your own?

    Personally, I just buy and hold market indexed ETFs in my SMSF. I wouldn't consider bitcoin, nor gambling on individual stocks. I will get something like 8%pa growth on average, and my only concern is a strategy for selling down to supplement dividends when it's time to pay a pension, without having to sell at the bottom of a crash or having too much sitting in cash.

    • welcomeUniverseWorld on 15/06/2025 - 12:46

      If you believe in the underlying value of your investment, why would you sell? If you don't, why do you hold?

      I don’t believe Bitcoin holds any value. It’s an asset that is entirely controlled. 😄
      So why did I buy it & hodl it? Because it’s precisely that - an asset fully manipulated, with an endless supply of greedy hoonams chasing it. And there are new hoonams getting created everyday. Most of them will also be greedy due to the economic condition of our Earth.

      :)

      • Malik Nasser on 15/06/2025 - 12:49
        +2

        Your investment thesis is sound.
        So you do understand it.

      • SlickMick on 15/06/2025 - 21:48

        The tulip buyers thought there was an endless supply of people stupider than themselves, but they were wrong.

    • kiitos on 16/06/2025 - 14:51

      What's the advantage of using a smsf to hold ETFs as opposed to using the ETF manager, or do they not offer super accounts?

      • SlickMick on 16/06/2025 - 15:01
        +1

        Some ETF providers may be starting to offer public super accounts, but I don't think there were any around when I started.
        I don't know whether they would provide the service for free though, so a SMSF might still be the cheapest option.

  • SBOB on 15/06/2025 - 12:56
    +1

    Why are you maintaining a SMSF and seperate super fund, and therefore paying twice the fees associated with the super funds?

    You could easily have your employee payments made into your SMSF and still invest in whatever cash/etf type investment you want to replicate the common investments from a super fund.

    And as others above have said, having a cash based investment for your super with 15+ years of earnings to go is unwise

    • welcomeUniverseWorld on 15/06/2025 - 13:04
      -1

      I never intended to take full control of my super, as I don’t consider myself well-informed or experienced enough to manage it entirely on my own. That’s why, when I began, I opted for a 50/50 split—half into SMSF and half into traditional super. Over time, the SMSF appreciated significantly in value, which led me to shift my traditional super into cash for balance and caution.

      I am actively thinking of rebalancing again

      • SlickMick on 15/06/2025 - 21:51

        You consider yourself capable enough to dump a portion of your future income into something you know has no value, but investing in cash is beyond you??

  • Protractor on 16/06/2025 - 22:32

    Don't forget to pay the tax owed>
    https://www.news.com.au/finance/money/wealth/one-third-of-au…

  • TheBilly on 19/06/2025 - 21:15
    +1

    Start DCA selling your portfolio and plan to be out by December or when you think this bull run will end. That way if there is any more upside you are exposed but also banking some profits.

    Start DCA buying your portfolio when BTC goes back down to the $40k ish mark and holds there for a considerable time. Because I doubt it will ever hit $20k again. But selling out and entering at a higher price hedges against long term unknown risks like black swans.

    15 year hold is tough to comment on

    While crypto has a solid future and is the currency of the future, is it going to be Bitcoin specifically that dominates or will something better take its place?

    Personally I have doubts which is why I would DCA in and out according to the market cycle so in between if everything collapses you will be hedging your risk with the level of exposure you have to market

    I personally believe that BTC will only have a successful future as a reserve asset in the best case scenario. Not as a transactional currency. It either truly becomes digital gold or it becomes a flop that people look back on and think, how we could possibly have thought that way.

    It’s not practical from a transactional point of view. Solana is way better for transactions and cheaper, or Tron, USDT etc. but no other crypto has the mechanics of BTC to act as a reserve asset. So that’s its only possible niche.

    Even though, after many major cycles it’s still considered to be a risk asset. Go figure. Still hasn’t become digital gold, if anything it’s currently inverse correlated to gold so it does the opposite.

    What is BTC really? All it is, is people paying shit loads of money to put their money on a register that can never be altered. Is that really enough to become a gold substitute?

    Gold is what it is over thousands of years BTC was like yesterday.

    Too much doubt to just hold for 15 years and not enter / exit the market

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