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Louis Theroux: The Ultra Zionists - Free Streaming @ ABC iView

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Louis Theroux: The Ultra Zionists - Free Streaming @ ABC iView
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Aus Falcon on 02/07/2025 - 21:05 iview.abc.net.au (2464 clicks)
Last edited 24/07/2025 - 13:51 by 2 other users

Currently available for a very limited time on ABC iview until 8:56pm AEST 22 Jul 2025 12:52am on 21 Aug 2025.

https://iview.abc.net.au/show/louis-theroux-the-ultra-zionis…

In this provocative documentary, Louis Theroux travels to the West Bank to meet Jewish settlers living in some of the most controversial and politically sensitive areas. With his signature calm and inquisitive style, Theroux explores the motivations, beliefs, and tensions that define life among ultra-nationalist Zionists, shedding light on the complex realities of the the region.

Also available, is the very hard to get until the ABC posted it 2 weeks ago is Louis Theroux: The Settlers. This does not have an expiry date, but don't be surprised if it is taken down soon as it has been done with services in several other countries.

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closed Comments

                            • dealhunter52 on 08/07/2025 - 16:31

                              @Igaf: I have read and understand more about Israel-Arab history than you do. I'm obviously not biased towards Arab narrative. It's a religious conflict more than a land conflict. Palestinians had no issue when they were under Jordanian or Egyptian occupation prior to 1967. Problem is that Arabs can't comprehend a Jewish state in Middle-east while there are more than 50 Islamic countries in the world. It's also a fact, that non-muslim population has decreased in each of those 50+ countries, apart from UAE (UAE has large population of migrant workers).

                              You think if Israel really wanted to commit genocide, it will take them 3 years? They would have done it in 3 days. It's easy to make assumption sitting in the comfort of your couch than actually go fight in the urban ruins with extensive tunnel network and enemy that hides amongst civilians.

                              • Igaf on 08/07/2025 - 17:01
                                +3

                                @dealhunter52: And yet you know nothing about one of the root causes - the scuttling of the PLO-Begin accord. Go figure.

                                Are you really that naive wrt genocide? Even Netanyahu with Trump's callow support couldn't just wipe another state and its population off the face of the earth without consequences. It has to be done under a guise, the same guise the IDF uses to justify attacks on aid workers. Woops, they were just "mistakes".

                                Why do you think Natanyahu allowed the build up of tunnels and arms in Gaza? The answer in a nutshell is - he needed an excuse to do what he and other Israeli extremists have always wanted to do.

                                • dealhunter52 on 08/07/2025 - 17:14

                                  @Igaf: There is no point arguing with you as you're clearly biased towards Arab narrative and will disregard all the facts. So according to you, everyone one of the 50,000 killed is a civilian and ZERO Hamas fighters have been killed including their leader Sinwar and rest of top brass. Israel must be really bad at genocide for using flyers and warning citizens to evacuate before bombing terror targets. Do they need training from Hamas, Hezbollah and Houthis?

                                  • Igaf on 08/07/2025 - 22:20
                                    +3

                                    @dealhunter52: Your notion of what genocide is needs a LOT of work, which is unsurpising given your lack of knowledge of basic history. When you mature you might learn that targeting women, children and aid-workers, wantonly ignoring their presence when unleashing lethal destruction, and denying civilians food and medicines is "a crime against humanity and violation of international law, and why that's the case. As you might know, similar things happened to Jewish people in multiple countries during WWII, albeit to a much more destructive extent and with much clearer direction from their persecutors/murderers.

                                    Apparently your flyers were still at the printer when the World Kitchen Aid workers murdered by the IDF, and the evacuate message was printed on bullets when a dozen people lost their lives approaching an aid station. Just two of many atrocities perpetrated by an IDF egged on by extremists in the Israeli govt.

                                    Looking at some of your posts it's evident that your "facts" have been supplied by one particular group and you've swallowed what used to be called "propaganda" hook, line and sinker. Disinformation these days comes in many forms, some subtler than others. It isn't working for Israel and goodwill has rightly dried up.

                                    One Israeli in particular needs this conflict to continue. One guess who that is.

                                  • Igaf on 11/07/2025 - 11:08

                                    @dealhunter52: Israeli strike kills 10 children near US-run Gaza clinic

                                    Everyone, ethical supporters of Israel's war on Hamas included, OUGHT to be outraged at the IDF's continuing unrestrained slaughter of innocent people. The IDF's disingenuous rote apologies are no better than if Himmler or Goebbels had stood in the Nuremburg docks saying they sincerely apologise for their "unfortunate policies".

                      • Mike911 on 20/08/2025 - 20:27
                        -1

                        @dealhunter52: Don't try to reason with people stupid enough to fall for hamasshole and anti Israel msm propaganda… If they didn't have double standards, they'd have none at all….

                        • Igaf on 26/08/2025 - 22:35
                          +1

                          @Mike911: The definition of stupid is ignoring genocide as it happens right before your eyes, just as many did during WWII. What is it that hundreds of thousands of Israelis can see that you can't? Or, probably a better question: why can't YOU see what millions around the world can?

                          "Benjamin Netanyahu leads a coalition of cowards, criminals and crazies who are not serving the people, writes Gary Cohen, a filmmaker based in Israel. As more protests are planned in Tel Aviv, he explains why many Israelis no longer trust their government’s motives or decisions.
                          https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-…

                          • Mike911 on 27/08/2025 - 15:20
                            -2

                            @Igaf: lol

                            • Igaf on 27/08/2025 - 19:30

                              @Mike911: Trouble dealing with reality? Presumably the questions above were too hard so I'll give you something which shouldn't test your functional grey matter quite as much.

                              Is 'lol' your standard response when confronted by vision of the IDF atrocities in Palestine? How many 'lols' did the murderous raids by Hamas on Oct 17 rate?

                              • Mike911 on 28/08/2025 - 12:02
                                -1

                                @Igaf: Your lies are truly comical…

                                • Igaf on 28/08/2025 - 12:09

                                  @Mike911: What lies are those exactly?

                              • Mike911 on 28/08/2025 - 12:06
                                -2

                                @Igaf: If Israel was committing genocide, they're the worst army on the planet at it… Anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together would realise if Israel WANTED to do it, they could have done it in 1 afternoon on Oct 8th… They've sent in troops going door to door to minimise civilian loss of life, as well as sending SMS', letter drops, phone calls, roof knocks…. To deny any of this shows you are either completely brain dead or a hateful bastard…

                                • Igaf on 28/08/2025 - 12:22
                                  +1

                                  @Mike911: Your blind naivety is certainy comical. Speaking of "brain dead", it seems there are "hateful" Jews around the world who share my views, any "thoughts" (I'm giving you far more credit that you deserve) on why that's the case?

                                  There are many ways to commit genocide which is why there are specific international laws regarding starvation - ironically based on what happened to Jews in WWII - and occupation of ("sacred") lands, which as your extensive reading would have told you is actually the root cause of the ongoing conflict. There are also many ways to punish those who give aid to Palestinians, or report on your atrocities. The first IDF "mistake" might have had some credibility (although not if you bothered to read the alleged background of the soldiers involved), the rest have zero credibility. But credibility isn't the issue, the fact that you and your ilk are prepared to look away is.

                                  • Mike911 on 28/08/2025 - 12:42
                                    -2

                                    @Igaf: once again…. LOL.. you are so convinced of your delusions… comical…

                                    • Igaf on 28/08/2025 - 12:56
                                      +1

                                      @Mike911: Again, what "delusions" are they? Add that to the list of questions beyond your pay grade and scope.

                                      Hard to know what drives people like you to ignore atrocities that millions of others can see and condemn others, but ideology and self-imposed ignorance are certainly very high in the list of probabilities.

                                      • Mike911 on 28/08/2025 - 13:07
                                        -1

                                        @Igaf: haha nice one! You're on fire today!

                                        • Igaf on 28/08/2025 - 13:17
                                          +1

                                          @Mike911: Still no answers? I'm shocked /s, that's such a rare trait among apologists.

                                          • Mike911 on 28/08/2025 - 14:40
                                            -1

                                            @Igaf: apologists? Israel has done an admirable job in waging this just war that was started by hamassholes almost 2 years ago. The lies you tell only prove you are a hateful gullible fool who is convinced of "facts" by terrorist groups and anti-zionists / anti-semites. Get a life… bye..

                                            • Igaf on 28/08/2025 - 18:26
                                              +1

                                              @Mike911: Deja vu. What lies again? The "lies" you can't point out or the ones you dream about while drooling over your posters of Netanyahu and IDF carnage?

                                              The world knows how the latest phase on this conflict began but unlike you many also know what underpins and has driven it for decades. Also unlike you hundreds of thousands of Israelis and millions of decent people around the world haven't swallowed propaganda from any group. They deplore mindless violence, be it from Hamas or the IDF. They've read, watched and listened as the Israel and the IDF have indescriminately destoyed life lines, murdered innocent men, women and children - including hundreds of aid workers and reporters (or as yiu know them - "terrorists") - and withheld basic human needs that you take for granted every day of your ignorant, cossetted life.

                    • rightguy on 11/07/2025 - 08:58
                      +3

                      @Ruddaga: Your example is awful. No it's not like saying domestic violence doesn't exist because the victim survives, it's like saying a murder didn't happen because the guy who was supposedly murdered is still alive. There has never in the history of the world ever been a genocide in an area where the population increases during the genocide. Genocide, by definition, requires intentional actions to be undertaken that deliberately inflict on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part. When the physical destruction of that group does not exist, ie. the population physically increases, it is clear that the conditions of life that have been inflicted are not bringing out its physical destruction and therefore do not meet the definition of genocide. In the same way if you tell me your friend got murdered I should not be able to see him walking the street, because murder is the intentional act physically ending the life of someone unlawfully. If your friend is still alive then he has not been murdered. If the conditions in Gaza are such that it is not bringing about the physical destruction of the people of Gaza then it is not genocide.

                      If you were an actual good faith person you would accept that there is no genocide. But you are not a good faith person.

                      A slow-motion atrocity which is so slow that the effects of it are not being seen on the population whatsoever is not an atrocity. If you're claim is that I'm slowly killing someone in such a way that they wind up living to 110 years of age and dying of natural causes then your claim is stupid. Try actually dealing with reality rather than having to invent insane ways to see the world so you can hate people. It's really sad to see someone who is so utterly without the ability to undertake even the slightest bit of common sense reasoning.

                      And yes you are absolutely biased and absolutely irrational.

                      • Igaf on 11/07/2025 - 11:30
                        +1

                        @rightguy:

                        If you were an actual good faith person you would accept that there is no genocide.

                        Don't understand the word or attempting to rewrite the meaning of genocide? Or, getting in early to rewrite history as has been the want of apologists for centuries? While you're beating around the bush of what YOU consider genocide, Israel continues with its wanton obliteration of humans because "there were [possibly, at some time] Hamas fighters in the area", or 'take our word for it we a targeted a Hamas militant (murderer) involved in the Oct 7 atrocity, and if killing him meant that innocent women and children would be massacred that's a price THEY have to pay. Stay tuned for the next atrocity, we aren't done yet'.

                        I'm torn. Should I accept your obviously blinkered opinion or that of informed groups with actual knowledge and experience on the ground, including the UN 'Special Committee on Israeli Practices', Amnesty, and eminent legal authorities ?

                        • rightguy on 11/07/2025 - 11:51
                          +1

                          @Igaf: What "I" consider genocide? We have a definition of genocide. It's called the Genocide Convention. If you want to change the definition to make it murder for someone to throw a pie in someone's face, that's fine. But all you are doing is making it so we now label pie throwers as murders.

                          My blinkered opinion? I studied and hold degrees in law including international law and wrote graduate papers on this very topic. The report you cited, from the BU School of Law, blatantly misread basic UN reports. They make claims that 70% of housing in Gaza has been destroyed as of May 1, 2024 which is false. They make claims that it was a violation of the Geneva Convention rules to internally displace people despite it literally being a right under rule 129 for HCP to displace populations internally for security concerns (https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/en/customary-ihl/v1/rule129).

                          Unlike you I don't just read the headline of a report and just accept it, I actually do the work of analyzing every single claim made in a report to see how valid it is and the UNHR report is full of mistruths and claims that can easily be invalidated. It also absolutely forgets about whole tenets of international law and completely pretends like whole sections of LOAC do not exist. It is, without question, one of the worst examples of poor academics I have ever seen in my entire life. If this document was presented in a court of law it would be thrown out and those who presented it would be eviscerated by their opposing counsel. The reality is that it is presented to ignorant people like you who have decided to forgo utilizing your frontal lobe and instead let other people do that hard work for you. Meanwhile people like myself, who actually care about things like legitimately analyzing war through actual legal frameworks, will continue to laugh at people like yourself who, despite living in a world where claims made in a report can be easily researched because things like Google exist, do not want to utilize your God given brain to do that exercise of determining if information presented to you is good information or bad information. You would, instead, prefer to just be a mindless sheep and happily not use any high level functioning to understand reality, you'd rather people tell you how to think and what to feel. That's sad and laughable.

                          And the funny thing is you don't care about any conflict. You won't call the war in Ukraine a genocide despite the death rate being 3-4 times higher and the damage to civilian infrastructure being at a level of maybe 10-20x what we are seeing in Gaza. That's a war. But Gaza is a genocide. Please explain how the war in Gaza is different than any other war of the last 30 years.

                          Here's a list of all the wars of the last 30 years - please explain why each of these is different to the Gaza war in not being a genocide despite around 5 - 10 million people having died in all these wars:

                          First Chechen War

                          Afghan Civil War (1992–1996 phase)

                          Cenepa War

                          Sierra Leone Civil War

                          First Congo War

                          Cambodian Civil War (1997 phase)

                          Eritrean-Ethiopian Border War

                          Kosovo War

                          Kargil War

                          Second Chechen War

                          Second Intifada

                          War in Afghanistan (post-2001)

                          Iraq War

                          War in Darfur

                          South Thailand Insurgency

                          Insurgency in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa

                          Iran-PJAK conflict

                          Conflict in the Niger Delta

                          Second Lebanon War

                          Operation Cast Lead (Gaza War)

                          Libyan Civil War

                          Syrian Civil War

                          Boko Haram Insurgency

                          War in Donbas

                          Russian Annexation of Crimea

                          2014 Gaza War

                          Yemeni Civil War

                          Russian Invasion of Ukraine

                          2021 Israel-Palestine crisis

                          2023 Israel-Hezbollah conflict

                          Red Sea crisis

                          Sudanese Civil War (ongoing phase from 2023)

                          Internal conflict in Myanmar (ongoing, intensified in 2021)

                          Mexican Drug War (ongoing, intensified in 2006)

                          Islamist Insurgency in the Maghreb/Sahel (includes Mali War, insurgency in Niger, Burkina Faso)

                          Congolese conflicts (various ongoing, e.g., Kivu conflict, Ituri conflict, M23 offensive)

                          Somali Civil War (current phases)

                          Various insurgencies in Pakistan (Balochistan, Jihadist, Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, Sindh)

                          Various insurgencies in India (Northeast India, Naxalite-Maoist, Jammu and Kashmir)

                          Civil conflict in the Philippines (New People's Army, Islamic State insurgency)

                          Kurdish separatist insurgencies (Kurdish-Iranian conflict, Iran-PJAK conflict, Kurdish-Turkish conflict, Kurdish Hezbollah insurgency, Turkey-Rojava conflict)

                          Tigray War (Ethiopia)

                          Ethiopian civil conflict (Oromo conflict, OLA insurgency, War in Amhara)

                          Anglophone Crisis (Cameroon)

                          • Igaf on 11/07/2025 - 18:21
                            -2

                            @rightguy: Yes, what YOU consider genocide because as we know, plenty disagree with your view as I've already pointed out. We all know there's a formal "definition" of genocide and we're all aware that there have been ongoing debates about its use in this appalling conflict. As I suggested, people with FAR more knowledge and experience than you or I have concluded that Israel's actions constitiute genocide after VERY careful consideration, not that the word or the definition have any particular relevance to the innocent people being decimated by regular indiscriminate IDF atrocities.

                            The results of Israel's policies aren't speculation or biased propaganda. As Human Rights Watch has reported, Israeli govt reps have often confirmed indiscriminate policies which specifically aim to punish civilians:

                            ….Israeli Defense Minister Israel Katz reiterated in mid-April that Israel’s “policy is clear: no humanitarian aid will enter Gaza.” National Security Minister Itamar Ben-Gvir said at the time: “As long as our hostages are dying in tunnels, there is absolutely no reason to allow even a gram of food or aid.”

                            …In early May, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s security cabinet approved a plan dubbed “Gideon’s Chariots,” which it says could start as soon as US President Donald Trump’s visit to the region concludes on May 16. The plan involves forcibly displacing much of the Palestinian population of Gaza while seizing and occupying the territory. “There will be no in-and-out,” Netanyahu announced on May 5. Israel is “finally going to conquer the Gaza Strip,” said Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich, who also serves as a minister in the Defense Ministry and sits on the security cabinet. Smotrich, who has said that Gaza will be “completely destroyed” and its Palestinian population will “leave in great numbers to third countries,” also suggests these plans should not be adjusted, even if hostages are released.

                            When coupled with the systematic destruction of homes, apartment buildings, orchards and fields, schools, hospitals, and water and sanitation facilities, as well as the use of starvation as a weapon of war—acts that amount to war crimes, crimes against humanity including extermination, and acts of genocide—these plans trigger the “duty to prevent” under the Genocide Convention. For the 153 states that are parties to it, the duty to prevent genocide arises as soon as a state learns, or should normally have learned, of a serious risk that genocide may be committed. A definitive determination that genocide is already underway is not required, as Human Rights Watch set out in an April 2025 intervention in a case currently before the UK courts challenging the UK government’s decision to continue to license military equipment used by Israeli forces in Gaza.

                            Israel and the United States are advancing a new plan to use private military contractors to provide aid only to certain parts of Gaza. In a May 4 joint statement, the UN and aid groups operating in Gaza warned that the plan won’t reach the most vulnerable, “appears designed to reinforce control over life-sustaining items as a pressure tactic,” and “will further entrench forced displacement.” The IPC said the plan is “highly insufficient to meet the population’s essential needs.”

                            Virtually all of Gaza’s population has already been displaced, while Israeli authorities have pursued forced displacement as state policy, rendering the strip largely uninhabitable. Israeli officials have confirmed that going forward, areas “cleared” by their military would follow the “Rafah model,” a euphemism for the destruction of civilian infrastructure.

                            Let me make it absolutely clear to you - whether Israel's atrocities in Gaza precisely meet the UN genocide definition is entirely irrelevant to my views about Netanyahu, his many extreme supporters, and elements of the IDF. I also very much doubt if anyone caught up in in the systematic destruction of life and infrastructure has any interest in the genocide debate. I have no trouble understanding the intentions or effects of Israel's acts in withholding food, medicine, and fuel, and obliterating basic life systems without needing to check whether they meet a formal word definition, even though others more qualified and with far more information have already measuredly determined that's the case.

                            No-one reading your comments would be surprised that you don't agree with independent analyses but your attempt to excuse Israel's atrocities on the basis of "it's war, no different to any previous war in the last 30 years" (absolute nonsense), is instructive. Inference - we should turn our eyes away and not be critical because - "it's happened before" and besides "it's one of the (former) 'good guys' committing atrocities". My question to you and other apologists is this - if Iran (for example) was doing these things to Israelis would you be so apologetic and supportive?

                            I made no comment about Ukraine, although I suspect my views will be obvious to anyone who has read my comments on the Gazan obliteration. Here's a clue - I've said on this website that Netanyahu and Putin are two sides of the same coin, albeit with obvious differences. Interestingly to survive they both need their wars to continue and/or occupied land not to be returned. The same principles apply, despite the differences in circumstances.

                            But it's interesting you'd raise Putin's war and compare it to Israel's. No-one is turning their eyes from the Russian invasion of Ukraine, or Putin's atrocities, or his usurpation of territories, but I have to agree with you - there are eerie similarities, including the fact that both are able to kill, and destroy, usurp and flout international law because of superior firepower, a compliant administration and a relatively disinterested/ineffective/impotent international community. The obvious difference is that Putin instigated his murderous actions while Netanyahu used Hamas' attack to justify what he and extreme forces within Israel have always wanted to do.

                            Interesting list of conflicts, which not only suggests you have no idea of the background to any of them but also that you believe that whatever happens, any action by any participant is justified. I wonder how many of them involved total destruction of infrastructure, deliberate withholding of food and medical aid, and targeting of aid workers. Wars invariably have many similarities, they also have vastly different root causes. Iraq as we know was based largely on American lies about weapons of mass destruction, Vietnam (post the French) was based on American ignorance of Ho and nationalism. Interestingly America has never paid reparations to Vietnam or Nicaragua or Iraq, or Afghanistan, or indeed any country it - and its private companies - has fcuked over militarily or economically. Simplistic? Obviously, but less so than the ludicrous claim that your list of conflicts are all equivalent. I doubt Israel would concede that their actions are the same as Milosevic's Kosovo ethnic cleansing but if you say so I'm prepared to agree - to a point.

                            • rightguy on 11/07/2025 - 19:36
                              +1

                              @Igaf: This is a ridiculous statement. There is only one definition of genocide and that's the legal definition under the Genocide Convention.

                              Do you really want to live in a world where someone can publicly call you a rapist or a pedophile or do you want a world where to call someone that they have to have met the bar as per what is stipulated under the legal definition of these terms?

                              I don't know why you're comparing the Iraq War with Gaza War. If Iraq had invaded America in 2003, killed the equivalent of what Hamas killed, so around 41,000 people, and kidnapped an equivalent of how many Hamas kidnapped, so around 8,500 Americans, I think America would have had the legal and moral right to go to war with Iraq especially if Iraq was sending tens of thousands of rockets indiscriminately into American territory.

                              As for your comparison of Putin to Netanyahu, that's a comparison only someone with a very childish understanding of geopolitics would make. Firstly, I assume you haven't been to Ukraine. I've been there 3 times since the war started. I was in Kherson just 3 months ago. The two wars could not be more different. There are over 200,000 people dead in the Ukraine War. There are tens of thousands of children kidnapped. There is over $500 billion in damage. Thousands of schools. Thousands of medical facilities. Tens of thousands of apartments buildings, hundreds of thousands of homes, all destroyed. The level of destruction is something that we haven't seen since WWII and it is getting worse by the moment. Gaza is 1/10th - 1/20th of the scale and Israel has been doing things to clear areas of civilians in ways the Russian army has not. Go to Ukraine and see it for yourself. Talk to Ukrainian people. I've been volunteering there regularly and doing what I can including having had Ukrainian refugees living with me for over 2 years now while they get housing and jobs and learn the language.

                              If you want to be angry with anyone regarding the Gaza War the person to be angry with is President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. The fact that he hasn't allowed Gazan refugees across his border is shameful. The fact that zero international pressure has been put by people like you on him to do so speaks volumes about how little you care about Gazans to begin with. Tell me, how many Egyptian officials have you met with, how many protests at the Egyptian consulate have you been party to, how many communications do you have with Egyptian officials. I bet you haven't even written a single one. So please stop pretending you give a damn about anyone in any of these conflicts. You don't. If you did you would do something about it.

                              But instead you act like a child who doesn't understand anything about geopolitics. Putin is not freely elected, Netanyahu is. That's the difference. And that's where the charge of genocide and war crimes is harming everyone in this region because Israelis like their democracy, they won't overthrow their freely elected Prime Minister just like Americans aren't going to overthrow Trump. Democracy is important to those living in it and we see how societies that have coups end up, it is atrocious. And all people like you are doing when you make these ridiculous claims about genocide and war crimes is making Israelis turn more right wing when it comes time to vote. They look at their children and husbands and wives who are in the IDF and they ask them if any of the statements that Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch say about the IDF is true and all the soldiers comment back that nope, they served honourably and decently to the best of their ability, because they all did and have. So people end up losing all trust in these NGOs and forming views that the world is hostile towards Israel, which it clearly is. And who do you think they're going to elect when they believe that they are under threat? A progressive dove or a hardline conservative? They're human. They will vote in whoever is going to fight and protect them.

                              So if you want to keep Netanyahu and Ben Gvir and Smotrich and the rest of the right wing hardlines in power please continue to act exactly how you're acting. All you're doing is further enabling them because you don't want to understand the very basis of how a democracy works. And all you're doing is making life harder especially for Gazans.

                              If you were actually good faith and actually had reasonable criticisms that's one thing but you don't. You know full well that there's no genocide by its legal definition but you still use that term. And all that does is ensure that in 2026 we will see Netanyahu win a stronger majority and it will only serve to strengthen his base and ensure he wins. Remember, the far left in Israel was slaughtered on Oct 7. Many of them have turned 180 degrees away from the left and especially after the global left has all but abandoned them. Israel is probably going to be a right wing country for the next 20-30 years moving forward because of how the left has become utterly shamefully disgusting with its antisemitism. If that's what you and the left wants, a far right Israel for 20-30 years and for Palestinians in Gaza and Judea & Samaria to be under that then continue to do what you're doing. If you actually want to care about Palestinians and Israelis grow up, start being a reasonable good faith person and stop being such a child about all of this.

                              • Igaf on 15/07/2025 - 23:00
                                -1

                                @rightguy: Sorry for keeping you waiting.

                                What's ridiculous? That certain experts have carefully deliberated using the precise UN definition of genocide, weighed up the evidence, and concluded that Israel's actions constitute genocide? No, what is ridiculous is that you think you know better. If you were actually of good faith you'd concede the obvious - that you don't like their conclusions so therefore they must be wrong. You'd also concede that it's largely irrelevant to victims and concerned observers whether the strict definition of genocide has been met. Wanton destruction and indiscriminate human collateral damage coupled with denial of humanitarian aid and the "accidental" extermination of aid workers tells a particularly sordid story.

                                You raised the Russian war on Ukraine and even went to the extent of creating a straw man of what I supposedly think about that war (did your law degrees teach you that technique or is it something you've honed by yourself?). That's your "good faith" is it? I simply explained the obvious similarities to drive home the abysmal conduct of "Israel" in Gaza . Did exposing some similarities get up your nose? Job done.

                                Speaking of puerile. It's childish to make motherhood statements based entirely on your beliefs then pretend they represent reality rather than opinion. Eg: "forming views that the world is hostile towards Israel, which it clearly is". That isn't clear at all. What is arguable is that many people in a few parts of the world abhor Israel's constant (ie it is planned and relentless) mistreatment of innocents and wanton destruction of infrastructure in Gaza. They likely blame the govt, its extremist enablers like "Religious" Zionists Ben-Gvir and Smotrich, and parts of the IDF, almost certainly NOT everyday Israelis or the majority of IDF soldiers, some of whom as you know have expressed dismay at what they've been required to do: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israeli-soldiers-delibe….

                                Here's an excellent example of puerility and bad faith in you need more for your diaries - equating valid criticism of Israel's actions in Gaza with antisemitism. Certain groups here and elsewhere have tried this very tactic in order to shutdown criticism and scrutiny, thankfully with little effect at this juncture. Niemoller would rightly be rolling in his grave.

                                Perhaps unsurprisingly your belief that Israelis are turning to the right/hardliners isn't supported by current polls. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_I… Yet another example of the folly of having an unwavering belief in the absolute rectitude your own opinion. Even if they were it isn't because decent people in many other countries are expressing their support for everyday Gazans and decrying Netanyahu's uncontrolled retribution.

                                The notion that Israel will be a far right nation for 20-30 years is utter nonsense and shows your understanding of that country's people and domestic politics is next to non-existent. They've been looking for a "messiah" to unite under for decades without being able to agree. Things can change very quickly but with 15 months to go it appears the far right may possibly end up with as few as 10 representatives in the 2026 Knesset.

                                and all you're doing is making life harder especially for Gazans.

                                Really? How so? Dissent has demonstrably changed national political approaches already in some countries. It also helps to keep the plight of Gazans in the consciousness of people around the globe. That and your appeal to the antisemitism trope are the best arguments you've got? If you bothered to listen/read the room you'd know that waffle like that will neither shut down dissent nor will it change views.

                                Btw, thanks for the lesson in "geopolitics". I wasn't aware that Russia is a ruthless amoral dictatorship/oligarchy or that Israel is a democratic nation with proportional representation. Hamas also won elections I believe. How did they do it I wonder? Failed (naive) geopolitics of George Dubya and Condoleeza is the simplistic answer according to Fred Kaplan. Next post can you help me out with a lesson in "the very basis of how a democracy works"? Presumably by that you mean "how the majority of Israelis think" and what will clinch their votes? Given your expertise in what they think, what's your prediction about the makeup of the next Knesset? Far right domination I presume? Polls and recent history tell another story.

                                Your notion that we shouldn't complain about Israel, we should be happy to allow indscriminate killing and destruction because if we're silent Israelis might vote Netanyahu and his culpable mates out of office is as nonsenical a comment as I've read on here in quite a while.

                                Let me create my own straw man and sum up the attitude your comments convey: Israel's actions don't meet the official definition of genocide therefore we can and should ignore its many atrocities - especially since they apologise for "incidentally" severely injuring and killing innocent women, children and aid workers in the pursuit of a single Hamas militant extremist, or "technical erros".

                                If you want to be angry with anyone regarding the Gaza War the person to be angry with is President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi. The fact that he hasn't allowed Gazan refugees across his border is shameful. The fact that zero international pressure has been put by people like you on him to do so speaks volumes about how little you care about Gazans to begin with. Tell me, how many Egyptian officials have you met with, how many protests at the Egyptian consulate have you been party to, how many communications do you have with Egyptian officials. I bet you haven't even written a single one.

                                In fact I have his number on speed dial. Apparently he monitors the numbers of calls to his embassies so that he can construct and refine Egyptian border policy and is particularly keen on what Australians think. You got me though. I haven't met with a single Egyptian official, nor an Israeli, nor a Palestinian official. I also didn't meet with the Taliban and haven't contacted Russian officials to vent my spleen either. That apparently in your strange world makes me more culpable of the slaughter in Gaza than your Israeli mates and probably also responsible for thousands of Ukrainian and Afghan deaths. Perverse doesn't begin to describe that convoluted finger waving. Like your Israeli pals who release regular insincere rote apolgies for their atrocities I've shown enormous remorse by occasionally dipping into my pocket to salve my conscience. How do you salve yours when kids and women are blown to pieces?

                                According to some reports Egypt has let some 36,000 cross its borders, some having paid a brokerage of $10K to Egyptian "security agents". Speaking of geopolitics - I can think of a few obvious reasons why Egypt would keep its borders relatively tight (security, sovereignty, economics…), including that doing the opposite would be giving Israel free reign to raze Gaza. As you know courtesy of your wide reading of "geopolitics", Egypt has already taken in more a million from the Sudan conflict. As you also know, thanks to Netanyahu and the wet-behind-the-ears, ignorant Trump negotiators Egypt is now forging stronger ties with China and Russia.

                                Many of them have turned 180 degrees away from the left and especially after the global left has all but abandoned them. Israel is probably going to be a right wing country for the next 20-30 years moving forward because of how the left has become utterly shamefully disgusting with its antisemitism.

                                Where's your evidence for either of those gross exaggerations? There was yet another mass protest to stop the war in Israel a few days ago - and that was before another "technical" error massacred innocents at a water station. A reported 74% of Israelis want an agreement which would end Netanyahu's murderous retribution Unlike you and the "antisemitic" crowd, informed Israelis know the distinction between support for humane actions towards innocent Palestinians and general hatred of Jews. They also know that sympathy for Israel's response to the Hamas atrocity has rapdidly eroded with every "error" and bomb.

                                Did you miss my question or is it too difficult for you? I'll assume the former and give you another chance - if Iran (for example) was doing these things to Israelis would you be so apologetic and supportive?

                                • rightguy on 16/07/2025 - 01:25

                                  @Igaf: Sorry. I'm bored by your poor logic and your inability to actually engage with reality. If you haven't actually done anything to address the issue at hand such as try to petition federal politicians to try to convince Egypt to open their borders then it's obvious that you don't care enough about the issue or about the lives of the people on the ground. So if the whole thing is moot to you and you don't care then what's the point in wasting both of our time. The only thing you care about are Wikipedia level information and polls. It's sad to see a very privileged person who desires to be angry about things because they don't wish to understand them. Anyways, you have nothing to teach me, you obviously don't care about the subject whatsoever and as such I'm bored by you. I'll leave you with this bit of advice though, if you want to have a productive happy and heathy life I would recommend either actually giving a proper (profanity) or deciding not to give a (profanity). Pretending you give a (profanity) when you don't and being some angry person about it is not going to lead you to anything other than a life of misery.

                                  • Igaf on 16/07/2025 - 15:31

                                    @rightguy: Not unexpectedly, the question was far too hard for you. That you can't answer such a simple question suggests you a couple of possibilities - either don't give a fig about the plight of Palestinians caught up between two sets of extremists or your ideology prevents you from acknowledging the excesses involved. Try "engaging with reality" and doing some basic research before unleashing your opinion on others, it might help.

                                    If you haven't actually done anything to address the issue at hand such as try to petition federal politicians to try to convince Egypt to open their borders then it's obvious that you don't care enough about the issue or about the lives of the people on the ground.

                                    Repeating a simplistic nonsense adds nothing at all to your argument. Help me out by explaining this - how will my writing to any official influence Middel Eastern "geopolitics" - geopolitics which you've shown you have sfa knowledge, let alone awareness, of? The short answer is patently obvious - it won't, just as outside pressure at the highest levels doesn't in most cases. It would also have ZERO effect on the fanaticism, the ingrained prejudices, and the sheer bloodthirsty self-righteousness of certain groups across the Middle East. Hamas as you know (cough) not only murdered innocent Israelis on 7/10/23, they also did the same thing to get rid of their more moderate rivals in Palestine in 2007.

                                    The whole basis of your premise is puerile. People should be encouraged to discuss complex isues and express their views, preferably after doing some basic reading - something you clearly haven't done. If doing so gets up the nose of opinionated ideologists that's a bonus.

                                    .

                                      • Igaf on 16/07/2025 - 18:42

                                        @rightguy: Twitter doesn't exist pal but its successor has the right amount of characters and "intelligent"` debate which will suit you to a tee. It's probable your comments here aren't a true reflection of your persona - that's usually the case - but they certainly reflect a poor grasp of the issues you're trying to debate and an even poorer ability to express yourself without resorting to puerile drivel. Resorting to straw man arguments and confusing your own opinion with "reality" are typical failings on forums. Overconfidence, blind ideology and failing to understand the fundamental difference between beliefs/opinions and reality will do that. You've taught me very little but you have confirmed two things - degrees are no guarantee of knowledge or intelligence, and the folly of thinking beliefs (especially poorly informed beliefs) are realities.

                                        You should be risking your life or freedom. You should be committing acts of terrorism and civil unrest.

                                        Makes the same sense as the rest of your opinionated tosh and precisely mimics the argument that Hamas and many similar cults use to justify their murderous acts and ambitions.

                                        This is the equivalent of hearing a woman being raped outside your house and instead of walking out to stop it you just post online about it and argue with people online about how bad rape is.

                                        I'd hazard a guess that even a junior high school student could shoot holes in that bit of arrant nonsense. Sadly it's quite typical of the conservative right in the USA. When you find time away from lobbying the Russian ambassador and various Trump administration chiefs over the Russian invasion (you do do that, don't you?) you might want to do some reading on the dangers of logical fallacies/false equivalence.

                                        who is either a liar or just an utterly immoral person.

                                        Seriously? Did you fail to read or totally misunderstand what I said about genocide? Your misrepresentation of my comments is par for the course - water off a duck's back. Your hair splitting justification of Netanyahu's actions and total disregard for the appalling massacres of innocents in Gaza however suggests you need to take a long, hard look in the mirror. Hypocrisy and ideological blindness aren't attributes to be valued or nurtured.

                      • RecklessMonkeys on 11/07/2025 - 12:27
                        +1

                        @rightguy:

                        There has never in the history of the world ever been a genocide in an area where the population increases during the genocide.

                        How have you ascertained that the population increased since Oct 7?

                        • rightguy on 11/07/2025 - 12:46

                          @RecklessMonkeys: The WHO counted 603,000 children under 10 in Gaza in the last week of Feb 2025.

                          source: https://www.who.int/news/item/28-02-2025-humanitarian-access…

                          The Palestinian's own vital statistics on birth registration in Gaza, which by all accounts including 3rd party research, has been found to be >99% accurate at various points when it was researched and audited, shows that the average birth-rate in Gaza in the 10 years prior to 2023 (2013 - 2022) was 57,796.4 births per year which should mean that there should have been in 2023 around 580,000 children under 10 in Gaza at the start of the war.

                          source: https://www.pcbs.gov.ps/statisticsIndicatorsTables.aspx?lang…

                          Doctors counted 603,000 children under 10 in Gaza, which means that 2023 and 2024 would have to have exceeded typical birthrates by around 10,000 births a year. Meaning that quite literally we have seen a population increase amongst 25% of the population during this period of war.

                          Remember this is children under 10 so we should have children age out and leave this cohort by turning 10 and we should have those replacing them by being born on a regular basis. If the population was increasing we would see more replacements and if the population was decreasing we would see less replacements and the population of this cohort falling.

                          I remind you that people don't immigrate to Gaza. Population is effected only by emigration, deaths and births - that's it. So the fact that they found so many children under 10 in Gaza can only mean the following:

                          1) increased birth rates during the war which means that women have been healthy and that circumstances have been good for them in terms of being able to have access to enough food and medical care to have healthy pregnancies and healthy births and healthy infants

                          2) the reported death toll of children under 10 has to be fabricated as this headcount could not exist if thousands of children were killed in the war

                          3) that the reality is that there is not huge sections of the population in rubble. Again, this cohort represents 25% of the population and they found they could physically find them and count them. That means they are healthy and safe and surviving this war and not dead or missing or trapped under rubble.

                          This means that the population is healthy and stable and this proves that as of the end of Feb 2025 it was very healthy and very stable and seemingly growing.

                          • RecklessMonkeys on 16/07/2025 - 19:12
                            +1

                            @rightguy: Population estimates vary depending on methodology. So we’d expect the CBS and WHO, etc. to come to different tallies. Comparisons need to be like-for-like.

                            The WHO counted 603,000 children under 10 in Gaza in the last week of Feb 2025.

                            Yes, they did. But they were expecting more than 640,000 when they planned the vaccinations in August 2024.

                            https://www.who.int/news/item/16-08-2024-humanitarian-pauses…

                            So the population of children under 10 actually fell by 37,000 in 6 months.

                            • rightguy on 17/07/2025 - 11:58

                              @RecklessMonkeys: Why aren't you going by birth registrations when the PA and third parties all have stated over multiple years in their publications that the birth registrations are ~99% complete? Isn't that going to be the best way to know how many children there are in this cohort? Gaza doesn't have immigration so the only way the population grows is by births and the only way it shrinks is by deaths and emigration. We have the birth records going back near 20 years in Gaza. We are just missing out on 3 years (2023, 2024 and 2025). But we can use the births registered in previous years to give us some insight into that and even allow a large increase.

                              What other methodology would you utilize to determine population of children under 10 in Gaza other than published birth registration figures.

                              And there was never any way that there were 640,000 children in Gaza in August 2024. Look at the 8 years of birth registration data we have. We are just missing 1.5 year of birth registration for August 2024. We have the previous 8 years (2015-2022) and when you add that all up you get 464,905. August 2024 until 10 population would include nearly half of of the births in the 2014 cohort in which there were 56,363 births. So lets say that 26,000 of those (accounting for August 2014 - December 2014) were included. That brings us up to 490,905. To get to 640,000 you'd need 150,000 births in a 21 month period. If we look at the last 8 years of data and average it out to monthly births you're looking at 4,843 births per month. To get to 150,000 births you'd need that to increase by ~50% to reach 7,143 births per month over 21 months.

                              That is so utterly unlikely. And it certainly would be impossible if there was a lack of nutrition. You can't make claims that the population is being murdered at high numbers and that they are also facing starvation but that the birth rate is able to go up by 50%.

                              Mathematically it never made any sense to assume there was 640,000 children under 10 in Gaza when we know the birth rate and we can make good reasonable guesses from there.

                              We know that there were 604,000 children under 10 in Gaza in March 2025. We have data for all the ages other than 0 - 3. We know that there were 408,456 kids born between Jan 2016 - Dec 2022. What's left is around 195,544. If we divide that by 3 we get 65,181 births per year. That seems far more reasonable a birth rate over the years we have missing to explain this growth as we have evidence of high rates of birth like 62,591 in 2012 and 60,287 in 2016. Meanwhile if we were to believe that 640,000 children should have existed at this time you'd be needing 231,544 kids born in those last 3 years which means you suddenly have an average annual birth rate of 77,181 birth per year in a place where the highest recorded birth count in the last 20 years was 62,591.

                              It seems illogical for anyone to believe that somehow something magical in Gaza happened from Jan 2023 - March 2025 and somehow we saw three years of the highest ever birth rate ever recorded in this region.

                              Consult for yourself. Here's the data on birth registrations from the Palestinian Authority - so from the Gaza Ministry of Health itself.

                              https://www.pcbs.gov.ps/statisticsIndicatorsTables.aspx?lang…

                              • RecklessMonkeys on 17/07/2025 - 20:08
                                +1

                                @rightguy:

                                It seems illogical for anyone [no one does] to believe that somehow something magical in Gaza happened from Jan 2023 - March 2025 and somehow we saw three years of the highest ever birth rate ever recorded in this region.

                                You claim births of 68,000 (58,000 + 10,000) consecutively in 2023 and 2024 – which would also make it the “highest ever birth rate ever” recorded in this region (62,591 in 2012) - after full scale invasion?

                                It seems illogical for anyone to believe that somehow something magical in Gaza happened…

                                These are your own words and citations.

                                Logic dictates that the assertion of increasing population should be discarded due to a basic contradiction in reasoning.

                                • rightguy on 18/07/2025 - 13:11
                                  -1

                                  @RecklessMonkeys: Firstly, there has been no full scale invasion of Gaza, the IDF has done a series of strategic invasions and not attempted at any point to put all its ground troops into Gaza, instead holding back huge portions of its resources and relying on a mixture of air strikes and strategic invasions to clear an area and then abandon it. This is why most of Gaza is still under the control of Hamas, with Israeli control only accounting for small corridors, and why that has been the case for the duration of the entirety of the last 21 months. A full scale invasion, by definition, means using all available resources and that has not been the case. If you are going to use terms then please know what they mean.

                                  Secondly, there was no invasion during most of 2023. Israel didn't start putting any major ground troops into Gaza until late October 2023. October is the 10th month of 2023. Late October means that essentially there was 10 months where there was no impact on Gazans whatsoever that might influence birth rates.

                                  Thirdly, it is not uncommon to see some level of change in birth rates where we see them increase during wars. This is quite common in the Middle East. We saw that in Lebanon during its long protracted civil war, we saw that in Afghanistan during the Soviet Invasion and during the American Invasion, we saw that in Iraq during its war with Iran and its two wars with America, and we've seen that throughout the Palestinian Territories during multiple wars from 1948 onward. That is common in this region. What we do not see is where that baby boom increases by a level of 40-50% because statistically that just isn't likely to be possible. What we do see is relative growth along the lines of what we are seeing in Gaza where we see a baby boom that is 10-15% higher than in previous years. Sadly you do not know the cultures or the history of war in this region and did not understand that when I say that a birth rate that is 40-50% higher than average is illogical and would require magic that so too would a birth rate that is 10-15% higher. No. A birth rate that is 10-15% is very common during war time in this region and has been demonstrated by multiple peoples over multiple periods of the last century, including Palestinians. What we have never seen is a birth rate that is 40-50%.

                                  Lastly, the assertion of increasing populations should not be discarded. Just as the birth registration data that has been audited and checked by a multitude of third-parties over the last few decades should not be discarded. You have decided to do both for some reason, which defies logic.

                                  If you want to engage in good faith I am willing to do so and you can actually make reasonable criticisms or ask questions but to make your assertions because you do not like the data you're presented with despite it being based in reality shows a lack of either good faith or the ability for rational thinking.

                                  • RecklessMonkeys on 18/07/2025 - 19:54

                                    @rightguy: If you don’t like having your assertions refuted then don’t make inconsistent statements. Otherwise you’re just arguing with yourself.

                                    E.g.

                                    That populations tend to have higher birthrates when under extreme duress.
                                    But hang on – the Palestinians aren’t suffering at all, are they. Flowers are falling from the sky. They aren’t war crimes. It’s not genocide. Everything is great for them.

                                    That The World Health Organisation just vaccinated 600K kids so everything is great. The population is "healthy and stable".
                                    World Health Organisation :
                                    The risk of [Polio] spread, within the Gaza Strip and internationally, remains high given gaps in children's immunity due to disruptions in routine vaccination, decimation of the health system, constant population displacement, malnutrition and severely damaged water and sanitation systems…

                                    That was a year ago. Think of how things must be even betterer now.

                                    If you want to engage in good faith I am willing to do so

                                    I have merely pointed out the contradictions in your own statements using your own citations, but I don’t think much of anything you say is in good faith. Your modus operandi appears to be to attempt to mislead followed by picking a fight when you’re called out. Then the exchange ends as you retreat under the cover insults.

                                    So let’s just end it here.

                  • eraser215 on 07/07/2025 - 10:00
                    +4

                    @dealhunter52: "I care about all civilian deaths, especially the ones dying in the music festival, but bit less for the ones who were dancing in the streets and spitting over the dead bodies."

                    No mention of the hundreds of thousands of civilian deaths in Gaza? Is that because you don't care? You may as well just say it out loud for clarity :)

            • mpember on 03/07/2025 - 11:21
              +6

              @Ruddaga: And according to the IDF, just having a pulse is enough to get our classified as an "enemy combatant".

              • rightguy on 11/07/2025 - 11:52
                +1

                @mpember: And by "according to the IDF" you mean according to what your brain told you to believe.

        • Ruddaga on 03/07/2025 - 09:11
          +6

          So you're suggesting Hamas is accurately reporting their own casualties… while also lying about everything else? Come on. No one credible thinks zero Hamas fighters have died, not even Hamas. The reality is, tens of thousands of civilians have been killed, and if your takeaway is to make a joke about Israel’s “aim,” maybe reconsider what that says about your priorities….

        • bchliu on 03/07/2025 - 23:47
          +6

          Self claimed "Most moral army in the world".. LOLOLOLOL..

      • slepax on 02/07/2025 - 23:16
        +7

        Just one number being reported and all civilians, magic

        • Ifndefx on 03/07/2025 - 09:36

          Thats the number that we are concentrating on because no one cares about the hamas deaths. Israel have stated that they have killed 30K of their fighters, and then blinkin then states that they have recruited to the same numbers as when they started (??) so go figure.

      • MKBHD on 02/07/2025 - 23:43
        +40

        Latest predictions say 300,000 civilians have been killed/missing.

          • No Client List on 03/07/2025 - 01:18
            -6

            @dumdum2: Nah, that was the Jews in the late 1930's

          • vaguelyfamiliarduck on 03/07/2025 - 01:31
            +24

            @dumdum2: I don't get your line of thinking. Let's just say you're right, the numbers are hugely inflated, and only 10% of that number were actual murdered civillians. That's still 30,000 people. Does that suddenly make it ok to you then? Is there some arbrituary threshold of people that have to die before we start caring???

            • dumdum2 on 03/07/2025 - 06:27
              -2

              @vaguelyfamiliarduck: Evidently it does matter when pro-Palestinians keep giving these numbers with nonsensical methodologies, without acknowledging that anyone who has died in Gaza was a Hamas fighter.

              If it didn’t matter then people wouldn't pretend everyone in Gaza who died was a "murdered civilian", something that has never been done for any other war ever.

              • Ruddaga on 03/07/2025 - 09:15
                +24

                @dumdum2: Imagine watching entire families wiped out, children pulled from rubble, and journalists targeted… and your response is “oh, it’s just war.” If that’s how you justify this, then you’re not just desensitised, you’re literal human trash and I hope that karma catches up with you one day mate.

                Normal people mourn innocent lives. You excuse them. That says everything anyone needs to know about your moral compass, or lack of one.

                It’s not some black-and-white “pro-Palestinian” thing like you’re trying to frame it, it’s about not being the kind of person who shrugs off mass death like it’s background noise. Must be nice, sitting behind your screen, detached and smug, while real people are being slaughtered… and all you can do is scoff. Says more about you than anyone else.

                  • Ruddaga on 03/07/2025 - 10:08
                    +15

                    @dumdum2: Lol you think I give a f*** about who is involved? Innocent lives are innocent lives, you’re the one obsessed with labels. You seriously believe people only care because “Jews are involved”? That’s some cooked-up, victim-complex nonsense.

                    If your takeaway from genocide-level bombing is “oh but where were you during Myanmar or Sudan” , congrats, you’ve reached peak whataboutism. People do care about those conflicts. Maybe you don’t see it because you live in a tiny, echo-chamber bubble… and probably suck in real life too, honestly.

                    Keep pretending it’s about “bias” while thousands die. That’s on you. Seriously, you must be a total jerk in real life. Don't breed mate lest you pass on that foul attitude to someone else.

                    • dumdum2 on 03/07/2025 - 10:11
                      -1

                      @Ruddaga: When people start saying Russians should be cleansed from Russia and relocated to somewhere else or that Sudanese people control all of Western politics while slamming those countries then I'll believe this has nothing to do with Jews.

                      • Ruddaga on 03/07/2025 - 10:13
                        +5

                        @dumdum2: Except your logic like everything you're saying is complete utter bullshit since I believe Israel has a right to exist. So yeah keep fishing mate… You're doing great so far.

                  • Ruddaga on 03/07/2025 - 10:12
                    +12

                    @dumdum2: Also, this nonsense about “demonisation of the Jewish side” is utter horse shit. When October 7 happened, I was furious, I was one of the loudest voices calling for justice for the innocent Jewish lives taken. It was horrifying and indefensible.

                    But here we are, months later, and the so-called “justice” has turned into an unrelenting slaughter of civilians. At some point, revenge killing starts to look less like defence and more like bloodlust. But hey, good for you. You get to justify it all with the magical shield of “We’re Jewish, so we can do whatever we want… and if you disagree, you’re antisemitic.”

                    That’s not accountability. That’s weaponised victimhood. And people are tired of it.

                  • eraser215 on 07/07/2025 - 10:03
                    +1

                    @dumdum2: Israel is 75% Jewish, so it's not just the "Jewish side". It's the Israeli side. The government of Israel is indistriminately murdering civilians. Don't make excuses or use whataboutism to deflect from the reality here.

          • amrdeus on 03/07/2025 - 09:16
            +14

            @dumdum2: Actually it's taken into account. Not sure exactly which estimate op is talking about, but according to Israel defence numbers that are quoted in a Harvard paper, there are about 1.8 million Gazans accounted for.

            The population before the war was 2.3 million. 100,000 were evacuated.

            This leaves almost 400,000 not accounted for.

            This isn't a definite number, but just looking at Gaza, it'd be a miracle if we don't see a very high number like this when the dust settles.

            • dumdum2 on 03/07/2025 - 09:32
              -6

              @amrdeus: Must be some really reliable census numbers in a literal war zone.

              Hamas would jump at the chance to claim that if there was any evidence at all.

              • amrdeus on 03/07/2025 - 09:45
                +11

                @dumdum2: I'm literally quoting IDF numbers man. And I'm openly saying that it's not necessarily a death count, but unaccounted for. And here let me see if I can prove it to you:

                Answer me this question: IF eventually, when the dust settles, and we find out that there are indeed about 400k confirmed dead. Will you acknowledge that this was indeed a genocide?

                That will be a huge chunk of the population destroyed. The Gazan people will have been destroyed in "part" to quote the definition of genocide. I bet, deep down, even with all your propaganda, that you know that these numbers might actually be true, and that you'll refuse to acknowledge that those numbers will indeed mean a genocide. You'll just come up with another excuse and be all "well Hamas killed them " or some shit.

                • dumdum2 on 03/07/2025 - 09:48
                  -6

                  @amrdeus: There's no chance that 400,000 have died. There was a ceasefire for about a month this year when Hamas presumably was digging through the rubble and they absolutely would have used those numbers if they were finding huge numbers of bodies.

                  • amrdeus on 03/07/2025 - 09:59
                    +2

                    @dumdum2: Yes, I know you don't believe those numbers. This is why I asked you HYPOTHETICALLY.

                    IF the number was true, how would you feel about the war? Would you admit it were a genocide then? Only if.

                    • dumdum2 on 03/07/2025 - 10:01
                      -8

                      @amrdeus: If Hamas had killed 10x as many people on October 7, would you support Israel's war? There's no point responding to fantasy numbers based on nothing. This probably just exposes that Gaza never had the population it claimed, maybe it was just inflated to help boost foreign aid to Gaza.

                      • Ruddaga on 03/07/2025 - 10:09
                        +12

                        @dumdum2: Ah yes, the "maybe Gaza never had that many people" take, straight from the tin foil hat daily. You’re now suggesting the death toll is fake and the population was made up? Mate, just say you don’t care about dead civilians and go. Dressing it up in conspiracy theories doesn’t make it smarter, just more pathetic.

                        And no, I wouldn’t support collective punishment even if Hamas killed 10x more. That’s the difference between people with principles and people like you, who seem to think war crimes are fine as long as you’re cheering for the right team.

                        Keep coping. You're not fooling anyone.

                        • dumdum2 on 03/07/2025 - 10:13
                          -2

                          @Ruddaga: When all the numbers come from Hamas and they are always incentivised to say they are as big as possible then anyone with a brain will be at least slightly sceptical (that seems to exclude you).

                          • Ruddaga on 03/07/2025 - 10:15
                            +7

                            @dumdum2: Ah yes, the classic “Hamas said it so it must be fake” argument, as if every number reported is pulled out of thin air. You do realise that independent organisations like the UN, Human Rights Watch, and even Israeli intelligence corroborate much of the civilian death toll, right?

                            And if you’re still in denial, maybe just Google a photo of Gaza right now. Entire neighbourhoods flattened. Hospitals destroyed. Refugee camps bombed. So go ahead, genius, tell us where all the civilians are hiding.

                            Scepticism is healthy. Wilful blindness? Not so much.

                            • dumdum2 on 03/07/2025 - 10:17
                              -2

                              @Ruddaga: Not even Hamas is claiming this fantasy 400K never mind any institution anywhere.

                              Go ahead and tell me how anyone confirmed Hamas' census numbers since you know they're so reliable. Bonus points if you can name an institution who isn't financially incentivised to give a bigger number eg UNRWA whose funding goes up the more Palestinians there are.

                          • Ruddaga on 03/07/2025 - 10:18
                            +8

                            @dumdum2: Anyway, I’m done with this. You’ve truly earned your profile name, mate. Unlike people like you, who clearly thrive on division, I actually want both sides to stop killing each other and find a way to coexist. But I guess that’s just a pipe dream while people like you keep walking around, breathing and fuelling the fire.

                            Enjoy your echo chamber. Have a nice life. I will not be reading any more of your drop kick replies lol

                            • dumdum2 on 03/07/2025 - 10:19

                              @Ruddaga: Do you think any Hamas fighters have died yet in this war? What are they saying on TikTok?

        • rightguy on 11/07/2025 - 11:56

          Impossible. The WHO did a head count of children under 10 just 4 months ago and found over 600,000. This is a population that has an average registered birth rate of around 58,000 per year pre 2023. Meaning that a high end estimate of this population group would be in the low 600,000s considering we don't have good data on births since Oct 2023.

          Considering that this population represents 25% of Gaza and seems to be healthy and alive it would be very insane to believe that hundreds of thousands of people are dead as we literally accounted for nearly every single Gazan under 10 just a few months ago and no major campaign has happened since the end of February which would have caused hundreds of thousands of missing people to arise.

          File these latest predictions under "junk" and lets stick to reality please.

          https://www.who.int/news/item/28-02-2025-humanitarian-access…

      • Ifndefx on 03/07/2025 - 09:33
        +11

        I feel like 50k doesn't do it justice, when the American officials are using numbers like 1.7-1.8M to represent the remaining population at one point, and recently they referred to the numbers as 1.5M.

        on the 6th of Oct, it was 2.2-2.3M.

        This 50k seems at odds with them. Moreover, the 50k is often also stated like it doesn't include the people in the rubble… as if they are still alive.

        When all this is over, I think we will be absolutely horrified of the true number.

        • rightguy on 11/07/2025 - 11:58

          We literally just had a headcount of children under 10 at 603,000 which was at the upper limit of what we'd expect for that cohort considering that the average registered birth rate was around 58,000 a year for the 10 years prior and Gaza has almost no immigration, meaning that the population is only effected by births, emigration and death.

          50K seems high and my guess is that it's probably lower and that fewer children are dead than what's been reported as clearly the population under 10 has not been overly affected in any detrimental way by the ongoing war.

          https://www.who.int/news/item/28-02-2025-humanitarian-access…

      • Gavman on 03/07/2025 - 10:22
        +3

        Or maybe don't start a war and take hostages (still have not been returned) against a military that is capable of wiping you out.. these people have a death-wish.. if they did that to USA 500,000 woulda been removed off the face of the earth in 2 weeks Iraq 2.0

        • Ruddaga on 03/07/2025 - 17:45
          +5

          Ah yes, the old “don’t poke the giant or you deserve annihilation” argument. Classic. So just to be clear, you're saying collective punishment, levelling cities, and wiping out entire families is a justified response because some militants attacked? Cool, just checking.

          Funny how you talk about the U.S. like that’s the gold standard. You do realise Iraq 2.0 was a disaster, right? Hundreds of thousands dead, mostly civilians, based on lies… and somehow you’re using that as a moral benchmark?

          Also, spare me the crocodile tears about hostages. Hamas literally offered to return hostages in exchange for a ceasefire, Israel refused. So what’s the excuse now? That their lives matter less than the political optics of “finishing the job”?

          “Death wish”? Mate, it’s not a death wish, it’s being born in an open-air prison and getting bombed every few years. But sure, keep blaming the caged for rattling the bars… easier than admitting the “civilised” side might be committing atrocities.

          • trapper on 22/07/2025 - 12:43

            @Ruddaga:

            because some militants attacked

            No, it was Hamas, the government of Gaza who attacked.

            And so now they have an open war.

            Realistically, it will only end with an unconditional surrender. Why would Israel accept anything less?

        • Ifndefx on 03/07/2025 - 20:37

          Your statement reminds me of people who blame the victims of domestic violence.

          "Should've made the dinner better, then he wouldn't have to have beaten you - what were you thinking"

          You realise that all the hostages were offered on the 9th and it was rejected ? Then they had to make arrangements for the elderly lady and Israel still didn't want her and had to oblige in the end.

          Its crazy how you still harp on about it, when their own govt doesn't care about them. Cutting the food and water - yeah that's going make sure they are fed and safe. Bomb the locations where they are and reduce it to waste land - yeah sounds like great plan./s

    • stimutacs on 02/07/2025 - 21:22
      +8

      I've seen that one! The Green Prince was on Netflix detailing how Israel had a deep cover defector inside Hamas and that they'd completely infiltrated and wrecked them into being a total non entity back in 2014.

      Was that not true? Was shin bet a bunch of clownshoes high on their own supply? Or was it actually true and nothing Hamas did since then was a surprise?

      Good luck picking today's lie in either case.

      • SlickMick on 03/07/2025 - 16:33

        Thanks, that sounds like a great watch.

        I looked up the story: I don't know whether this show totally strays from the facts and suggests that they defeated Hamas?
        Somehow I suspect that doesn't happen.

        I don't find the truth is hard to find, but it takes a certain amout of diligence to filter out the rubbish.

    • furyou on 02/07/2025 - 21:29
      +95

      We know about Hamas and islamic militants and denounce them.

      Funny thing is how Israelis know about killing and starving civilians in Gaza and celebrate the fact.

      Says a little about the type of people.

        • Aus Falcon on 02/07/2025 - 21:50
          +6

          It's true, can't deny that there are some in Israel who are awake and aware.
          Can't paint them all with the same brush. That would be the same as saying every white Christian male is a terrorist because of the Port Arthur massacre.

        • rooster7777 on 02/07/2025 - 21:50
          +21

          Sadly a very few brave jews…. and aren't they hated by zionists!

      • Stueyz on 02/07/2025 - 22:45
        +35

        Still waiting for ONE Jewish organisation in AUS to denounce the Gaza Genocide…

        • DogGunn on 02/07/2025 - 23:00
          -3

          There's plenty of groups and individuals.

        • 0hms on 02/07/2025 - 23:09
          +25

          Jewish Council of Australia (JCA) has done some amazing work, but admittedly even the founder herself said she has been ostracised from most of her community. Plenty of others (e.g. Tzedek Collective) working with liberation movements - issue is they are not given the platform like their genocide complicit counterparts (e.g. AJA, ZFA, ECAJ, AIJAC, etc).

        • baydoti on 02/07/2025 - 23:10
          +3

          Jewish council of Australia.

          • Creamsoda on 03/07/2025 - 00:05
            +25

            @gooey: Right. Some how Mossad can kill all the leaders of the IRGC in Iran with their nuclear scientists and Hezbollah leaders in Lebanon with pin point precision but some how can't find a single hostage in Gaza. I'm sure those hostages are a priority for the IDF.

            • dumdum2 on 03/07/2025 - 00:27

              @Creamsoda: Hamas has standing orders to kill hostages if Israel comes close to recovering them, and killed four hostages in this way already. Israel knows where the hostages are but can't go near them or they'll be killed.

              • Creamsoda on 03/07/2025 - 01:46
                +15

                @dumdum2:

                Israel knows where the hostages are but can't go near them or they'll be killed.

                Like those hostages that got their head blown off by the IDF waving a white flag? Pretty much an excuse to enact the Israeli policy of mowing the grass. This time 1:10 for every Israeli killed in oct 7th now they'll end the war since Big-game hunting quota has been reached, watch trump announce a cease fire. humans are just cattle to the oligarchy.

            • No Client List on 03/07/2025 - 01:24
              +6

              @Creamsoda: They don't want to find them, the ever so brave IDF would have no excuse to murder women and children, doctors, babies, aid workers, journalists then would they.

          • SlickMick on 03/07/2025 - 16:39
            +1

            @gooey: you're 100% right, but gosh it isn't a popular view here.

            I'm really intrigued by the power of propaganda, Hamas has totally achieved their objective.
            I've been reading past incidents with exactly the same aim, but this one has been hugely successful.

        • Gavman on 03/07/2025 - 10:30

          They would if it were true

      • Gavman on 03/07/2025 - 10:30
        -5

        Why is it Israel's problem to feed their enemy? Do you see Russia handing out food packages to Ukrainians on border towns? Last time I checked, Egypt still has a 45km border with Gaza that has been permenently shut since Oct. 7.. Arn't Arabs meant to be brothers? Meant to help each other? Why is it incumbent on the Jews in the midst of a war against an enemy sworn to wipe them off the face of the earth.. if their own Arabs "brothers" won't even help them? Perhaps your comments says more about the type of person you are - one eyed bias A-S.

    • Alzori on 02/07/2025 - 21:41
      +39

      They show that every night on the news. They never shut up about it. Bibi has a direct feed to my eyeballs via most news networks to tell me how terrible islamic militants are. I think we get plenty of that side of the story.

    • theone4u on 03/07/2025 - 06:11
      +12

      lets ignore the thousands of children dead yeah… not to mention over 300K are still missing under the rubble.

      • Gavman on 03/07/2025 - 10:33
        -2

        don't forget the 500k Palestinian children that were kill in Iran during 12 day war LOL

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