Do you think accounting software or Single Touch Payroll software /app such as Xero are ripping off people?
If yes, can you help me out by signing this petition?
Do You Think Small Business Should Have to Purchase Software Just to Report STP and GST with the ATO?
harryaus on 19/07/2025 - 21:05
Last edited 20/07/2025 - 15:21 by 1 other user
Last edited 20/07/2025 - 15:21 by 1 other user
Poll Options
- 231ATO should provide free STP and accounting software for small businesses upto 10 employees.
- 13ATO should provide free STP and accounting software for businesses with limited revenue.
- 3Accounting software should be subsidised, happy to pay monthly subscription for few bucks.
- 61No, I don't care. Happy to pay $100/month to Xero
Comments
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I use MYOB for a small business and it's perfectly fine. It costs $31 per month, which is a lot cheaper than Xero.
Xero just brought out a $30 plan. I've dropped to this just recently from my $99 plan
I heard ZOHO is not bad.
I use quickbooks. Had a steep learning curve. But now I've got the hang of it. It's pretty easy to use. Cheap too. đź‘Ť
Reckon only costs about $50 a month and does all the same things Xero does.
Thanks will check this out. My accountant suggested use xero with discount for now and look for other options after that. Its a bloody f****g rip off what these scumbag softwares charge for some essentials that is a requirement by govt services.
The first is free for up to 1 employee and the second is free for up to 3 employees. Beyond this, you do have to pay.
Thanks for the links. The second one looks good.
I am using the 2nd one, after switching from Payroller, which has restricted their free offering to minimal. With EPayDay free offering, you still get one month of free support - and their support was really responsive and helpful.
Also, their Micro plan(4 employees) is only $99 per year or $19 per mth, so if you ever need support/help in future, paying $19 for the month to get this seems like a very small cost.
MYOB Accounting Lite (2 employees) is $306/year +$2/month per employee. Payroll Only is $12 a month = $144 a year.
XERO is $900 a year ($75 a month).
Seems reasonable for a small business with 2 employees to manage their tax affairs, particularly since the packages can be used for more than just payroll.
The cost is even tax deductible.
On the subject of which, I still need to submit my quarterly. Thanks for the reminder.
I know guys, Xero is a good software, but don't you think they are ripping off people. They have increased their pricing for quite a few times and they will continue to do so, as they have captured the whole market.
Which means you dont know if they might start charging you $250/month in coming years, which I don't like
You'll think that by having competitions, those companies would be more restrained from inflating their pricing. Or maybe for a lot of SME there actually isn't much competition to Xero. I've been using Xero for almost 15 years and also hated that the price kept on going up for tools and functionalities that I'm not using.
However at the end I am stuck with what my accountant is using, because the extra time and cost for my accountant to reconcile everything at the tax time (if I am using a different software) would be far greater than what I'm paying Xero.
Can I ask, what plan of xero are you on?
Ultimate 10. I don't use project tracking, don't use KPI analysis, don't use expense claims, don't even use invoices. But as I do have more than 5 people on payroll I'll have to get onto their highest plan.
I worked in this industry and you have hit the right point. Xeros plan for a long time was to capture the accountants and then have them force everyone to use Xero.
The price increases have been trying, but hinestly, the competitors tend not to be as efficient, so odten the extra time spent getting the information correct costs you more; if not your time, then that if your accountant at year end
Also accountants get discounted rates for most subscriptions, but the subscription has to be theirs, which they'll charge you for. It's another option, and worth discussing with your accountant. I know some don't pass the savings on, but we do in full, even though it leaves us with the cost and risk of clients not paying, which does sometimes happen
its a tax deduction anyway. pay by CC and earn some CC points!
I am currently paying ~$140/month for xero. MYOB was similar money
xero is more efficient with more bank feed options
If the product is free, you are the product….
By "free", in this case, he means that taxpayers as a whole should subsidize the cost of him complying with his business tax obligations, not free in the "you are the product" sense.
It's not free in this case, he wants our tax dollars to pay for it.
To an extent though, tax dollars should pay for a basic account keeping software. Paying tax is a legal requirement, and small businesses shouldn't have to pay ridiculous monthly fees for software to meet this obligation. Large businesses have more complex pay and tax needs, and as such software that is able to accommodate that is a necessity, but your local small business that doesn't have these complexities shouldn't have to be paying for software that does very little for them in the scheme of things.
I disagree, they make a living in our society and need to pay their own way. Relatively low taxation already accounts for this small expense. If a few bucks is going to break the business, than they probably should just return to hobby status and go to PAYG like the rest of us.
I have heard about this accounting software https://www.zoho.com/au/books/
which is free, but no payroll option unfortunately, not even on premium paid plans.zoho books is no good for us in AU.
stay away.
Nothing against paid options / alternatives but basic STP software should be free from the ATO since it is compulsory.
100% that's what my point is.
As long as it's not just giving money to Xero etc.
Its compulsory by my employer for me to travel from home to the office, should that be free from the Company for me ?
If you worked from home all your career, and your employer all of a sudden requires you to come into the office - would you expect appropriate compensation? An ATO portal to fulfill STP obligations is not a crazy ask.
Write your own…
Hi ChatJV, please write the source code for ATO compliant STP and Accounting software.
Thanks, ChatJV. Please use the information contained at the link https://softwaredevelopers.ato.gov.au/STP to write the source code for an ATO compliant STP and Accounting software. Please use Python.
Currently using Payroller. It used to be free for basic features but now is a per worker subscription. I think it's free for one worker + if used on the mobile app only
How much?
I pay 2.99 per employee per month (on the annual payment plan) - this is just for payroll. I've not used any other STP software, but the UI is pretty basic and easy to use.
Change.org petitions are not how governments or billion dollar industries make business decisions.
So you are asking every tax paying person in Australia to help fund software for you to make more profits? Yeh nah. Good luck with your petition of 20 votes.
The poll says otherwise so far.
I think that you are missing a few options on that poll.
You're basically just whining that you're not getting something for free.
There is no such thing as free, if the government did provide "free" software that just means the rest of us are paying for it. I am personally not interested in subsidizing your revenue generating enterprise.
If the Government is providing something for "free", it means that we are paying for it.
No way, José. I'm not subsidising your business.
The government has heaps of red tape for all businesses including small business. Effectively small business owners spend hours and hours a week being tax collectors and reporters.
Is makes Australia uncompetitive and increases prices you pay.
So yes, you do partly pay, and yes, if you can offshore as many employees as possible.
E.g.: Phone repair shop saves me 100 bucks because they can replace my screen cheaper than Samsung will, so if I need to spend an extra $2 a year in taxes to pay for tax software that lets him not have to pay an accountant, which allows him to stay in business, that's a good deal.
It's a bit like government subsidising the post office or transport, or investing in renewable energy.
If those are affordable, tens of thousands of small businesses are more profitable, including a bunch that may not have existed otherwise. More small businesses (especially those on thin margins) keep the prices/service competitive in their own industries due to competition.
So if the extra money taken from taxpayers to maintain this "infrastructure" type stuff results in each taxpayer getting ten times as much in cheaper/better products/services, there's an argument that yes, the government should be subsidizing some of these things, even from a purely selfish financial perspective of each taxpayer.
Maybe the maths doesn't always work, and maybe payroll software isn't a good example, but it's not a fundamentally crazy idea.
If my memory serves me well, the ATO did provide software for lone traders and small businesees in the 2000s. Anyone else know l?
For the individual eTax was a software program provided by the ATO that you had to download to do your taxes at home.
Thanks. That would be it.
I don't think it's the government's job to provide free software. Then you'd just get complaints about how shitty the software is or how they are stealing your data and you can't trust them.
Plenty of benefits otherwise for small business. If $1200 a year is breaking the bank then your business isn't going to be successful.
What would be better is for more competition in the space so prices are kept low.
ATO does offer superannuation clearing portal, why not STP?
The value of grants and various tax concessions and other services the state provides businesses is orders of magnitude higher than what any STP software would cost.
Thanks to everyone who responded
This isn’t about expecting private taxpayers to subsidise private profit. It's about consistency and fairness in how government-mandated compliance is handled.For example:
As a salaried employee, you can lodge your income tax return for free through MyGov, using a government-provided online system. That platform is funded by taxpayers — and rightly so — because it's a requirement that everyone file a return.So my question is:
If employees can lodge income tax returns for free using a government system, why must I — as a small employer — pay a third-party software provider just to report payroll data the ATO requires?I'm not asking for a free payroll suite with fancy features. I’m simply arguing that access to a free, basic method of STP reporting should exist.
But the title of this post is literally asking if the ATO should pay for software and make it free for you. I would suggest you think carefully what you are asking for and the consequences of having the government write and distribute software to manage your taxes.
-Fixed title to make it clearer.
The issue is not being able to report Income, Withholding Tax and super to the ATO directly. A third party is required to pass on this information, usually at a cost.
It is not managing tax, it is simply supplying information that the ATO requires. Information that is personal and should not be should sent via a Third Party.
It’s free as a taxpayer because it’s funded by us, as a taxpayer.
Your reporting is funded not by taxpayers, but by employers. Tax payers are not required to lodge STP data, so why should we pay for it?
You don’t need to pay a third party provider, you are free to develop your own solution. If your business isn’t software development, then that’s your problem, not ours.
If you aren’t capable of reading the documentation from the ATO and compiling your own reporting software, then don’t you think it’s fair that you find someone that can, and pay them for their time and effort in doing that for you?
STP was introduced because of the frequent and continual problems with businesses not meeting their payment obligations to staff. Forcing a compliant system be used is “user pays” because the previous system was so frequently rorted.
That is not what has been raise here.
It was ATO who introduced STP, and it is ATO who should have provided with the software to report.If you read what I said it is because of compliance issues it was introduced at all.
The government doesn’t provide free building certifiers to certify construction or mechanics to check your vehicle. If you want to build a house or drive a car you need to pay for the regulatory apparatus. If you wish to employ people, you need a compliant payroll system.
No. Its part of the cost of running a business and being a business owner, particularly a for profit business.
Rubbish. Why I have to to pay 3rd party business to pay wages from my company to myself?
Don't open a business then, . No different to landlords being expected to absorb cost.
Landlords can recover cost by increasing the rent. With STP, ATO does not provide a choice but to pay 3rd party.
@Sidor: Business owners can recover cost by charging customers more. 🤯 There's less backlash from the public about price increases than rent increase.
@ytthr: No, but it's simply as raising the price of coffee from eg $5.00 to $5.20 a cup.
There's no law you can't increases prices…. No that hard.
There are different arrangements if you don’t have employees:
https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/hiring-a…Because, you and your company are different entities.
Effectively, you aren't paying yourself, your company is. Ie you are an employee of the company.
This means that you aren't paying the fee, just the entity that is paying your wages to you.
Why did you automatically assume "business" means company?
Weird
@plmko: Because this is the comment I responded to.
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/16745517/redir
Rubbish. Why I have to to pay 3rd party business to pay wages from my company to myself?
I suppose it could be weird.
I'll put a shout out to the payroll business I use. Epayday.
It is free for micro business for up to 3 employees. I willingly pay them a monthly fee as I feel I should pay for their service.Thanks for the shout out. I'm looking at them now (after the link from Scotty's post earlier).
They look good.
Am coming from the very basic Payroller so hopefully the transition will be easy.
I use them as well. After some rough patches after STP2 requirements came in it's mostly pretty smooth now. Their support is pretty top notch
What about big business, why should they have to pay for accounting software whilst their smaller competitors get it for free?
What about big businesses?
Qantas: $2.7 billion in subsidies and support during Covid (tax payer funded) and they didn't have to pay anything back when caught wrongdoing
Rothwells merchant bank: $150 million, government bail out
Holden: 2001–2014, taxpayers foot the bill of $12 billion to car makers to keep factories open.
BlueScope Steel: Got a $55 million grant to upgrade, tax payers paid for this.Semi-off topic:
Rudd doubling centrelink allowances during covid, tax payer fundedRudd doubling centrelink allowances during covid, tax payer funded
You mean Scomo?
My bad, yes Scomo.
But yeah, my points still stand. If the big guys can get payouts for bail-outs or don't need to pay it back, then what's a drop in the ocean for the little guys.
I used eTax many moons ago. That was free from the ATO website.
It was fine for me as a sole trader tradie.
Then they stopped it and I went to MYOB.It was a big step up and a bit of a learning experience.
Yes,the government should create a simple mappable API, or program. And it would be so simple. Software companies make their margins on th emandatories. Payroll just happens to be a universal mandatary.
They waste millions creating more work for taxpayers, but never reduce their own staffing.
Look at the mygov bullshit they have thrown at us over the last few years.
90% of tax returns are simple in/outs, but these (profanity) treat it like everyone is a millionaire hiding $50 from them, Just a giant charade,It is a simple mappable API, that's exactly what STP was designed to fix - make it simple as anything for payroll software to implement it (so most have).
The problem is that payroll itself is somewhat complex, that's what people are paying for. The government shouldn't be releasing full payroll software, and people doing payroll in a spreadsheet then submitting it via a website is going to be massively error prone. Which is particularly dangerous when it impacts superannuation and personal income taxes.
Also, have you used etax recently? Takes about 30 seconds to lodge a return on online and most of it is pre-filled for you. I did my tax return this year on the train on my phone on the way home because I didn't trigger any capital gains the past 12 months, just needed to search for invoices in my inbox for stuff I bought and that's about it.
90% of tax returns are simple in/outs, but these (profanity) treat it like everyone is a millionaire hiding $50 from them, Just a giant charade,
Yes, and those 90% of tax returns are literally just "next", "next", "next", "lodge".
What's the charade exactly?
Why should taxpayers subsidise businesses. Nothing is free. Somone is always paying.
if business cant survive without government handouts then they should close.
What if business cant survive with government handins their pockets?
they still keep the gst and payg like they do now
Then they need to think if being in business is the right thing for them.
It's just one of the costs of being a business.
What if a business can't survive with mafia hands in their pockets or hammers to their kneecaps?
…
They they need to think if being in business the right thing for them. Capiche.
@tenpercent: Well, that's a bit silly, isn't it?
Ya know, sometimes I begin to admire you for your knowledge about some topics and your attitude and understanding of how/why things are the way they are,
And then you come up with that kind of nonsensical hyperbole.
You shouldn’t have to pay to pay tax. That’s bonkers. If the ATO wants to collect tax they should pay to collect it.
claim for tax deduction on business software expenses like everyone else and shut up.
https://www.ato.gov.au/businesses-and-organisations/income-d…
They need to raise the GST register threshold from 75k to equal inflation today. Why has it been stuck at 75k for so long?
Do you give out your product/service for free?
I mean Google does….
I think businesses should also subsidise their prices for the community.
/s
Xero is expensive, but I've just about worked out how to use track categories to manage our Company, trust, SMSF and personal expenditure using one Xero subscription and various categories after wrestling many variants of speadsheets and things over the years. I'm by no means a xero expert, but have many years as an accountant behind my belt, so I know what I'm trying to do - just not exactly how to do it in xero.
Having everything tracked in one place is hell good, along with STP2 and SGC ease for the company reporting. Also helps only 1 gst registration.
At $75/month, less GST and being deductible, it's net cost is worth the time saved to have completed viability over everything in one swoop.
i've had to use multiple xero subs for the different entities.
how did you do it one?though i did use the first entity to refer the second one to get a 5% discount
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Which accounting software or app are you using? Has anyone found a more economical alternative to Xero?