I'm in the market for a second hand car around the $20k range and some of the Audi's look tempting.
However I know here and on other forums people are always advising against buying second hand Audi's but don't specify reasons.
Can I ask what exactly one should be wary of when buying second hand Audi's here in Australia?
Servicing and parts costs plus reliability in general.
Some models require the whole front end of the car to be removed just to replace a water pump. Crazy
And that's an Audi engine special feature. They put the damn things in sideways.
Plastic water pumps too
German chefs kiss
Oh like in the s2000 ?
Add to that high cost of insurance and even high cost of rapid depreciation.
Then there is the limited availability of parts as well.
And the very limited market for a used Audi makes them hard to sell
All these issues apply to ALL European cars in general.
Go and buy a used Audi but dont expect it to be a cheap car to run and not without headaches.
Most new Audi buyers get rid of them after 5 or 6 years for very good reasons!
Good luck!
Especially if you are going to take it on country trips !!!!!
Limited parts availability isn't exactly true. There's a huge market here for VW group parts.
Yep and plenty or OEM spec aftermarket parts at lower cost as well
Can vouch for this.
A3 owner here, wanted to save some money changing my headlights. Originally thought it would be a 2 minute job like my old Falcon.
Nope. Requires removal of multiple panels, inside the bonnet and even the wheel arch, one video recommended removal of the front tires.
Who designs this crap. It's like they wanted to turn very minor maintenance jobs into day long $1k services. It is well engineered to extract money from you.
Would I buy Audi again? No. Absolutely not.
My plastic water pump is failed on my 2014 Audi a6 years ago. It was engineered to fail. Plastic and heat don't go well together. I just top up the coolant every week
DONT BUY AN AUDI, OR SELL BEFORE THEY ARE 5 YEAR OLD
THEY ARE ALL PIECES OF SHIT
The same thing as brand new ones. Overpriced, overengineered European junk.
overengineered
Hey, let’s not say things we can’t take back!
I think by that he means overcomplicated for no good reason.
Audi Quattro is one (possibly the only) Audi I would buy (which is also an exception to the overcomplicated rule)
There is great reason if you run the company
pouring shots for everyone in chat in preparation of the summoning
I wonder where he is - I'm on my 4th shot already
Luxury cars tend to have more features, and more features mean more parts, which ultimately translates to a higher likelihood of malfunctions. Youtuber Doug DeMuro also said in one podcast that luxury brands tend to prioritise the luxury feel of a car over reliability.
They are for people who want to experience the nice features for a few years and then sell it to, well.. you, potentially. Also, because fewer people drive Audis relative to, say, Toyotas, sourcing parts can be more expensive on top of the premium you have to pay for parts already. If you were in Europe or some Asian countries, an Audi may be a good choice since they are everywhere.
Overall, if you want the brand and don't mind the extra cost, go for it. There is, however, an opportunity cost because a 20k Toyota can be far cheaper to run and more reliable. Add another 10k and you're looking at decent new cars.
Yet there's plenty of old Toyota/Lexus cars with all these same features and very few issues. There's also plenty of non luxury euro cars with lots of issues. Euro cars just have issues regardless.
Once their warranty has expired they’re not worth it anymore generally.
Parts are expensive,
Fixing them are a pain
Because they have a lot of features, they have a lot that can go wrong.
Because they have a sensor for everything, even little things can raise intermittent faults and cascade into larger problems.
If you get a very popular model with a large community behind it or are mechanically inclined/ have mates that you’re happy to spend time, effort and energy with. Then yeah, maybe (but most do 4wding these days for these reasons)
But generally, get a rav4, a prado, etc. for around $20K can get a jimny- just depends what floats your boat.
Once you know, you know- op will likely do what they want anyway.
Lexus also has got a lot of features and is a luxury car, but extremely reliable, and easy to maintain similar to a Toyota. German luxury cars are unnecessarily over complicated for no apparent reason. That's the only reason.
Genesis is solid too
I would love a Genesis but that's out of my price range :(
What model/year are you looking for? In general, VAG cars are known for very expensive repairs of anything goes wrong outside of warranty and a variety of issues with anything electric (eg windows, infotainment system etc). There are also known issues with different engines and transmissions, so do your homework on the specific one you are looking for.
Check out redriven on YouTube - some good reviews of used Audis that go over the car in detail, including what can go wrong.
Checking for the car on ReDriven is a must when buying secondhand
I was looking at a 2016 Q3 TFSI Auto MY17 on carsales
Thanks for the youtube recommendation
What's a VAG? I read it like it sounds and after reading all the comments first, I may not necessarily need an answer…
Volkswagen Australia Group.
Which Audi for $20k?
If it's an A3 then you'll find good, reliable examples. If you're looking at an A6 then you're asking for trouble in terms of very expensive repairs that make the vehicle uneconomical to repair.
2016 Q3 TFSI Auto MY17 on carsales
@Drakesy
Bahaha,
At this stage i kind of want to let them find out the hard way.
@pegaxs want to chime in>?
Can’t type, my skin is still crawling…
You suffer from formication?
German autos are not known for their long term reliability and older parts are hard to get in Austrlia. When you think of older cars (20+ years) in Australia, how many of them are Euro's?
I disagree, the old Mercedes were the best taxis in europe for years. They just ran and ran.
Think most of the problems are from newer stuff where they started making a lot of plastic engine bits. Over time they get brittle and break then are hard to replace due to how much stuff is crammed in the engine bay.
So yes pretty much OLD euro are engineered well, new ones not as much.
Yep - VW are notorious for using plastic components (like water pumps) that fail after repeated heat cycles.
i have 25 year old bmw, have owned for 22 years, parts are cheap, and it has given me very few problems and i’ve done 160k on it since i owned it. german cars are made for a global market, though we do not have as many in australia as some asian brands , lots of features, yes they are made in a competive market so even basic models have features, 25 year old base bmw has abs, air bags , etc, i would easily buy a bmw again.
There's a reason they are so cheap. I too have been tempted but talked myself out of it every time.
There are so many reasons, particularly in the era of DFI and TSI engines (~2008+):
This is the answer that OP needs but no one else could be fooked writing.
And I, for one appreciate the TED talk. Thanks mate for teaching me : )
Now i'm off to cook some ants using a magnifying glass behind the gym
Thanks for the car education. You’ve put into words the actual reasons for what many of us have been guessing at with all the advice we’ve read warning us off these cars throughout the years. Makes perfect sense now.
Let me be your hundredth upvote :)
Thank you for such a detailed response!
You've single handedly changed my mind and possibly steered me away from Audi's forever haha
Q5 owner here.
I wouldn't buy a new Audi let alone a second hand one.
The cars are lovely and drive well, but things go wrong too often and are very very expensive to fix.
After this car I am going back to Hyundai.
Hyundai had have trouble with their engines but hopefully the current generation is ok.
You have a petrol or diesel?
TFSI.
God awful levels of engine oil loss.
I had one too.
Every month, I would top up with 500ml BEFORE I check the dipstick. Sometimes it will fill up perfectly. Sometimes I need to add some more.
If I drive a lot that month, I get a low oil light and so I top up 1L before I check the dipstick haha
Oil consumption didn't kill the car. The broken fuel pump, oil leaks, sunroof leak and boot leak did. Straw that broke the camel's back. The oil consumption was the easiest to live with haha
Surprisingly I had no issues with the waterpump, DSG or electrical issues- other common VAG issues.
@JimB: I am the opposite to you.
I have gone through 3 or 4 Water pumps already. 12 years old Q5.
The Euro Mechanic I go to told me the Q5s average 1 water pump change every 3 years. I thought I was unlucky.
@tsunamisurfer: I changed my waterpump only once when I changed my timing belt.
Overall I drove it for 15 years, so can’t complain too much. At the end, all the little things annoyed me.
Towards the end Could never park it on the driveway or garage due to the oil leak lol
lol! Rented a Q5 awhile back,going across the hay plain the low oil warning light comes up! The thing only had 5,000kms on the odo! Rang up the Hertz depot,it will be fine, it’s due for a service when it gets returned! Really? Hardly, first service is @ 15,000kms.Get to Broken Hill, gave the local Hertz/Thrifty agent a call,really nice guy,said he had nothing to swap for it,he said this quite common with these,recommended I go & purchase a bottle of the recommended oil for it(basically a VW engine) & keep receipt,& they will refund you when you return said vehicle,which they did.The thing is with these things, they actually have no physical dipstick, you rely on the MMI screen for oil level! Stupid cars! Toyota or something Japanese next time! They are well known to use oil apparently, something to do with the rings I believe,but am happy to be corrected on this.
Better off with a cherry 🍒
Massive call… lol
BUY
ANYTHING
ELSE
At least a near new MG will still be covered by warranty when it inevitably breaks down - and it'll be better specc'd
If you can't afford to buy the car new, you can't afford to drive the car when it's secondhand.
And FWIW, no one cares about your car's badge. Audi's at the end of the day are just VW's in a different shell.
Thank you, the quote sticks in my mind now
If op is saying "but why?", consider a German Audi engineer who drives 60k kms on beautiful roads in ten years.
Now drive 150k on Aussie roads in the same time span and see what happens to plastic clips and rubber mounts on parts that the engineer designed to last for 120k kms of careful driving, assuming they would exceed the life of the car and never need an engine removed to replace a water pump.
Christ, where do I start?? I would buy a used Fiat over a used Audi… Hell, I would buy a used Peugeot over a used Audi.
Wooden buy an Audi, for duck's sake?
Used Audi comes into work and I wood duck out the back to avoid it
But But
Peugeot's are the most reliable car ever made!
According to that one guy on here.
This is your cue @nubzy
I drove my Peugeot 307 diesel 270,000km across regional gravel roads before sending it to the scrappers. I also lost the engine oil cap at ~220k and did the last 50k without one. Engine was brilliant. Electrics were always failing though.
My 308 diesel recently suffered a fuel supply issue. Relay and pump replaced.
A diesel specialist checked it out also and could not find the issue.
No fault code has been thrown.
Mechanic reckons it may be the injectors.
Which means $$$.
But not a guaranteed fix.
@altomic: My 306 which is 20 years old now still runs fine. Never had a major repair issue. Has minor age issues now, but it is the most carefree car to drive because if it got wrecked or stolen it wouldn't bother me. I even leave the car mostly unlocked these days because who'd want to steal it? Leather seats in it are still in great nick too, which is a modern day miracle for the way the car is treated.
Not sure of second hand but new cars are fine, and most of the fear around used cars comes from exaggerated stories online.
Not particularly Audi, but have owned multiple VW group / Euro cars (Skoda / VW / Merc ) from new for more then 10 yrs. Never faced any major issues.
For second hand cars, you always cant be 100% sure.
Audi/BMW/Merc is generally owned by persons who like the sporty driving and tend to push the cars more harder sometimes to its limits.
In tack days, you will see mostly European cars. Rarely a Japanese make and almost never a Toyota…
So a general perception is European cars are more often trashed and it reflects with expensive repairs. This rarely happens with Toyota / Hundai etc…
Unless you're blowing money on an R/M3/SL series, why on earth would you buy one of those for "sporty driving"?
And the expensive repairs are because they're expensive. The parts cost more, not the least because they cost more to make but also because they need to be shipped halfway around the world to a tiny market where not many people buy Euro cars, so there are less specialist mechanics too. Some people might enjoy owning a unique car, but it's always going to be a money sink.
^This
You don't need to thrash a european car for it to break.
It does it by itself.
I own a skoda and it has its issues but for what it was brand new 11 years and haven't had any major repairs so far (although I know they are coming really soon).
I would say the interior falls apart pretty quickly in this car though. The tech in my skoda is also non existent, but helps you focus on driving?
I had a 17 model Superb for a few years and it was also fine. I feel that the higher up the VAG chain you go, the less you get for your money.
Having owned and still own that Euro (spare car, cheap insurance because it is 20yo and basically a write off if involved in an accident)
Servicing is expensive
Parts are expensive
Even if you find a Euro specialist they will still charge you way above Japanese cars because they perceive you are either willing to pay to maintain the look of being successful etc.
I have an Audi A4 purchased 6 years ago when it was 1.5 years old (German built model). Got it for about half price of a brand new one, so I couldn't resist. Haven't had any issues apart from a water pump replacement (common issue). I get it regularly serviced at an independent Audi/VW specialist for about $230 a year. I was after something with a bit more power than my Honda Accord. Happy with fuel economy and power. Very quiet car. No problem with my Audi, just make sure the model is a reliable model with full service history.
I had a 2004 Ford focus which needed a new door actuator and was quoted $800 for one door!! A colleague had a 4 year old Hyundai Santa fe a few years back which needed an alternator was charge over $1,200. The cheaper brands parts aren't cheaper.
Just wait till your Audi gets to 10 years.
Thats when the reaming starts
It's a dry reaming as well.
yeap, lets see how it goes. My brother-in-law has a Golf R he bought brand new. It just passed its 10 year mark, and he says it still feels just as solid as the day he picked it up. However, he also had the same water pump problem. I really think you have to be meticulous with the service schedule on German cars. If you stay on top of the manufacturer’s recommendations, they'll stay on the road longer. A lot of people don't seem to service there car properly and ignore maintenance. Each model reliability also varies. I did come across a person that had the company purchase multiple Q3 (Made in Hungary model), they all had lots of problems from the start..
service history is important, german cars come with fully synthetic oil and if serviced through dealership it’s what they use, has much longer life than mineral oil which some owners use to keep running costs down. Same thing with coolants, need to use factory spec coolant.
When I was 19 I bought a 10 year old A4 for $14k. Owned it for about 5 years I think.
If you enjoy fixing things yourself you can save a few bucks, otherwise I'd never touch a used euro again.
Traded it in for $1500.
Haha that's exactly where it came from. An eternal reminder of my stupid decisions.
water pump for my bmw was $85, fitted it myself. if you can some things yourself, owning euro car isn’t expensive as it’s easy to get parts. labour costs are high regardless , and a packed engine bay does take more time to work in , i have 4 cyl not the 6 cyl so plenty of room, if i had the 6 then things get more complex, but it’s the same on japanese cars with crowded engine bay and a turbo.
Right foot, aim, fire
You'll get better results if you say what Audi, it's very variable across models, engines and transmissions.
It's a 2016 Q3 TFSI Auto MY17
But isn't Audi from Ingolstadt?
Ingolstadt is the second largest city in Upper Bavaria.
But rich city slikers there buy Bimmers and their middle class loves their Audis.
Given their unlimited speeds on freeways both brands are very suitable for fast driving.
Fun of speed is worth the extra cost on both brands.
Speed paranoid Ossies better stay with Toyotas built in speed paranoid Japan!
Thanks! I didn’t realise that about Ingolstadt being in Bavaria
What ever happened to @SYLTB? He used to rave on about VAG cars.
Deactivated.
So the rumours were true that he bought a Camry, explains why he can’t show his face around here anymore
for real?
edit oh wow lol - good thing i guess, wasnt sure how much more shots my liver could take.
It happened a while ago after I poked holes in his ‘never opened the bonnet in 20 years’ line. To be fair, he wasn’t nearly as annoying as Protractor, who just spammed the forums with crap all day, every day. That bloke wouldn't know what to do with himself now.
@Jimothy Wongingtons: He’d be too easy to spot. The only disguise that would work is posting something useful, but that’s impossible with the sheer volume of crap he posted.
His VAG budget ended at VW
It was humble car if I remember correctly.
With the way he’d rabbit on about it, you’d think he had an Auto Union racing car
At least severe mental fatigue from being on the wrong side of ozb comments.
Probably lots more.