I just saw the new AAMI ad with people flexing their safe driving, one of them said I always do head checks before changing lanes.
Are head check actually safe because you’re literally taking your eyes completely off the road to check your blind spot. Wouldn’t it be easier just to adjust your mirror to see the blind spot.
How is head checking any different to checking your phone? Checking the phone is probably safer
You need a head check of a different kind
Checking the phone is probably safer
You shouldn't even be checking your phone whilst driving.
Worst comparison ever.
Get off the road, OP.
User name checks out.
If you don’t know where your blind spot is and can’t glance over your shoulder for a fraction of a second to account for it, then it’s not safe.
I have known people who passed their license yet still couldn’t change lanes safely, which is scary.
If OP was ever brave enough to take up riding a motorcycle, they’d quickly learn that, unless they made “head checks” (aka “lifesavers”), then within a few days of urban driving, they’d be in big trouble.
Bikers are taught to believe that everyone else on the road is not concentrating (which they aren’t), so the only way to stay alive & on your bike is to head check every time you make any manoeuvre, whether that is lane changing, overtaking, turning, even switching across your own lane.
If you’ve spent your life lazily sitting inside a steel cage, not caring what everyone else is doing, can I suggest you try getting on a bike & get out in the traffic for a few days.
You will suddenly realise that car drivers are mostly disconnected with the road to the extent that they are all dangerous weapons trying to kill you, the biker.
You might just then begin to get an idea why it’s better to be defensive rather than passive as a driver/rider.
Then again, you might want to check your phone for “likes” every 20 seconds.
Your choice OP.
I knew a long-time bike rider why was learning to drive a car, and refused to head-check, claiming it was a dangerous distraction. I don't know how he survived on the bike, and don't know whether he ever got his car license.
Not sure I agree with your comment re phone checking.
A head check involves getting information about the same environment - the road and other road users - whereas engaging with your phone involves a context switch to a different environment. Additionally, a head-check can be undertaken in under a second - even switching your vision to a phone screen (let alone what you're doing after you do so) is likely to take much longer.
Now, if you said a "kid-check" (monitoring and interacting with kids - especially in the back) was more distracting than either phone or head-check, I'd agree entirely.
IMHO, better to put them on the roof rack - removes them as a distraction, gives them some fresh air, some excitement, and at night, extra protein from the oncoming bugs. :)
Of all the dumb shit that gets posted on this forum, this is a new low. I can see this making it into the Rolts Roundup tomorrow… Once again providing a great example on why we need the ability to do vote forum posts.
If people actually did head checks, half of the stupid shit you see while driving would resolve itself.
How you equate an important safety skill in a car to being on the same level as playing with a mobile phone while driving is mind boggling to say the least.
Your mirror has blind spots which is the entire point of checking by turning your head.
If you don't know this then you have no business driving.
All cars have blind spots. You need to find out where yours is ASAP, otherwise you're not safe on the road.
And no, if you're a good driver aware of your surroundings, it is safe to take your eyes off the road for a fraction of a second to check your blind spot at the appropriate moment (when you have good visibility, but not when you're turning a corner, etc.).
That fraction of a second is about how long it takes to move your eyes off the road to check the speedo, fuel tank gauge, or even the time, which people do all the time.
Using your phone, however, is critically dangerous and stupid. You need to spend seconds and seconds to absorb the information on your phone. And it is very distracting.
convince me flinging my head backwards while driving forward is a safe manoeuvre.
If you are "flinging" your head backwards, you are doing it wrong.
What’s wrong with positioning your mirror correctly
Apart from being a "strawman" argument? Nothing. This should also be done. A head check is in addition to having your mirrors correctly adjusted, not as a "replacement". Mirrors still have blind spots in them.
Checking the phone is probably safer
JFC. This is the worst take ever. This is the attitude of so many on the road. Chances are you drive a Ranger or some other type of large, imposing Viagra replacement, or a "rice racer rocket" and think everyone else on the road is a bad driver and you can use your phone and still drive safe.
The reason we have such shit quality drivers on our roads is because of the stupid type of suggestions you are making (mobile phone use it safer than doing head checks) and that driving testers are getting slack with testing standards because more licenses, even for poor drivers, is "more revenue" for the state's coffers.
This guy trying to convince me flinging my head backwards while driving forward is a safe manoeuvre.
If you're flinging your head anywhere, you probably need to see a doctor.
I'm quite sure that you're not supposed to be driving whilst your seizure condition isn't under control.
Being a motorbike rider head checks are one of the most important things to do when riding, I wish car drivers head checked every time they move lanes. It would save their outside mirrors falling off mysteriously. People who rely on mirrors are disillusioned and lazy.
People who rely on mirrors are disillusioned and lazy.
And I would add all those other arseholes that solely rely on their back up camera when reversing. There is a special place in hell for them as well…
Reverse camera is a supplementary tool to make reversing safer. It does my head in when drivers rely solely upon the camera display.
I drive trucks and busses that have limited vision, especially while reversing. They all have reversing cameras and I still mostly rely on my outboard mirrors, and, weirdly enough, turning my head to (fropanity) look…
Checking the phone is probably safer
This is why I check my blind spots using my phone's selfie camera instead!
But seriously a quick head check has saved my ass more than once cos I noticed a car from the left lane also trying to merge into the same middle lane I wanted (I'm in right lane)
If you need to ask this question, you probably shouldn’t be driving.
You seem convinced that it is not possible to safely do a head check. If you believe that and you are not capable of safely conducting a head check you should not have your licence.
can you? no prick has ever moved your mirrors whilst parked? A head check is an important safety check and funnily enough requires the exact same slight attention shift as looking at your mirrors. If you can't see the difference between a head check and looking at your phone then you should not have a license.
no prick has ever moved your mirrors whilst parked?
You should be checking your mirrors are adjusted correctly before driving off every time.
I’m saying they’re both as bad as each other. Both take your eyes off the road
@Slowestdriver1: Nit even close. One is still concentrating on driving while the other is pure distraction and takes far longer
Can see everything from the mirrors
How do you know? Apparently you don't do head checks…
If he can't see it, it doesn't exist…
You obviously gotta judge when its an appropriate time to do a head check. Make sure you have enough space in front of you should traffic come to a sudden stop when you turn your head back.
Op, you need retraining on how to do a head check.
I can see everything with the way I position my mirrors tested for blind spots so what’s the point of a headcheck
Whilst I somewhat agree with this, that there is indeed a way to position the mirrors that remove the blind spot (or more accurately, the blind spot has been shifted, with this technique you can’t see your own car doors), there are situations that still require a head check.
If I’m in lane 1 on a 3 lane road, I can see cars in lane 2 in the traditional blind spot in the mirror, but not lane 3.
That makes sense thanks for a respective sensible reply
Because too many people CANNOT BE TRUSTED to only —-quickly—- check their phone, "ohhhhh a widget let me see" SMASH CRASH. Phones/aps are designed to grab your attention and keep it.
Head checks rarely cause people to linger looking over their shoulder before quickly returning their gaze to the road.
Traffic Laws regarding phones are good as they are.
OP, please hand in your licence for the safety of all other road users.
My side mirrors have a warning on them saying something like "caution, objects in mirrors may be closer? Than they appear"
Something to do with convex mirrors distorting distance making objects seem further away than they actually are.
Seems to be an excellent reason for why drivers need to do head checks and not rely solely on their mirrors.
As for the phone safety comparison, I don't think the rules are intended (but of course they apply anyway) for the responsible people having a quick glance to check their gps or whatever, I think it is aimed at the muppets who won't be able to resist reading texts or emails, replying to those texts or emails, maybe remembering something they meant to google, doing a bit of online shopping etc
Pretty much all cars/vehicles have blind spots that the mirrors dont cover. Some people think they can see everywhere with the mirror's but its just luck they haven't hit someone. Mirrors themselves can be blind spots some the newer truck's have huge mirrors great for seeing behind but hide vehicles very well forward at intersections.
It would be equally as dangerous if you take as long to do a head check as you do on your phone. So, yes, if you take 10s to do a head check you're at a huge risk. But in reality a head check takes less than a second, while doing literally anything on your phone other than check the time (and with screen load lag even this may be untrue) will take multiple times that.
And, as an aside, while head checks come with risks they likely prevent thousands of crashes every day worldwide. Checking your phone while driving has never and will never make the roads safer.
Head check is underrated IMO. Saved me from a few crashes over the years.
How is head checking any different to checking your phone?
With a head check, your attention is still on driving. Using your phone, your attention is on TikTok or whatever.
Fix your mirror positioning
Learn how to do damn head checks or stop driving.
How well did that work out for Snow White?
Typical BMW-driver mentality, in line with the type that thinks indicating is a waste of time.
What happens when someone else decides to merge into the lane you’re merging into? Mirrors have limits, that’s why we head check.
We’ll wait for your upcoming post about how someone ‘came out of nowhere’ and what to do because you don’t have comp insurance.
How is it different? Context switching. With head check, the brain is still focus on driving. Looking at phone, the brain needs to switch to whatever context on the phone, and then switch back again to driving… this all takes time and mental load. Driving needs 100% concentration on the road at all time.
Cars should have mirrors slightly at the front like the old days. This is safer, easier to wash the car and more aerodynamic.
The reason mirrors are moved to the door is so that it can be adjusted by hand manually. but most cars now have electric mirrors.
Head checking is looking at a part of the road. Looking at your phone is not.
"What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. "
Nice one Richard
First thing I did when teaching my wife to drive was to have the car off in an open car park & intentionally stand in blind spots around the car.
Very simple experiment to prove blind spots exist & show why head-checks are necessary, but why they also don't need to be long. I even got her to aim the mirrors out as wide as possible. Even if you have blind spot mirrors (assuming they're fool-proof), you may need to drive other people's cars which may not have them.
Been doing headchecks for 24 years in cars & motorcycles and never had any close calls as a result (with the exception down-below being excluded) - and detected many cyclists/cars in my blind spots over time. It's also a 2nd attempt at assessing the situation (i.e. make a 2nd observation & not rely on your 1st observation where things are mirror imaged -> if you are tired, you can make mistakes with your 1st observation). Using the phone whilst driving…. I've had so many whoopsies I've stopped doing it. There's freaggin Siri & tools to do it more safely now.
Practice sub-half-second flicks - you can capture a mental image & process it afterwards whilst looking forward again.
Your goal is to just make sure there is no car/bicyclist/motorcyclist/pedestrian there : Not to write an essay about it.
And remember - don't use headchecks to admire attractive people (In those stupid situations - I've had a few close calls staring too long when I was younger - they weren't sub-second though).
I've rented commercial vans before, and yeah headchecks are hard…. on the drivers side I can stick my head out the window, but on passenger side I'm just fingers crossed & indicate super early!
The fact the you stick your head out of the window is terrifying while driving a van that sounds like 3 seconds with no view of what is infront of you. That is around 90 metres.
You definitely can position the mirrors to avoid blind spots, unless you love looking at your backdoor
3 seconds is a long time. A quick head turn glimpse is really quick.
I'm emulating them now and I'm doing them in under half a sec easy -> maybe 200-300ms? I capture a mental image of what's there and process it when I'm looking forward & scanning at my side view mirrors again. You are also just checking what's immediately to the left/right of your car doors in the next lane - not what the rear view mirror does for you. (Although on a motorcycle you can see so much that you can easily just not have mirrors at all)
My driving instructor also taught me that head checks should be fast & like speedo glimpses, you are not trying to study everything -> you just need to see if there's an object there. It's weird at first, but you get it in like a couple mins of practice.
Superbike intstructors teach compulsory rider-safety courses all the time, and they STILL tell us to do headchecks on the road for good reason. Again they are fast glimpses. They are NOT turn your head and one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand, three-one-thousand type observation situations - if you're doing it that way, you're doing it wrong.
I've actually scared the shit out of myself many times spotting cars/motorcyclists in the blind spots checks that my brain didn't process when looking at the side mirror.
And the amount of people who have merged into me when they never did blind spot checks is often. But a quick dab of the brakes is usually enough to avoid any collision.
I will say though -> Blind spot monitoring is a blessing - I care less about headchecks if your car is armed with them & can prevent you from merging into me :)
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of how long it takes to turn your head. Maybe try it and see if it really takes 3 seconds
One Mississippi, two Mississippi, three Mississippi.
Well his username sure does check out.
Do you even drive?
Head checks also aren't designed for addiction
OP probably drives one of those 5 star ANCAP safe cars with active safety features like blind spot monitoring, lane change nanny, rear cross traffic alert, radar cruise control with traffic crawl feature. Everything to nannyfy your drive and mechanise automated driving so the driver thinks less about driving and watch YouTube on the screen more.
Basically designed for stiff neckers who can't and won't physically do a shoulder check if their life depended on it because of a deranged idea that it is so unsafe compared to scrolling Instagram while driving. Logic be gone!
OP can't drive a manual
Wouldn’t it be easier just to adjust your mirror to see the blind spot.
Ok I initially thought this was utterly bullsh*t until I read https://doi.org/10.4271/950601 and watched https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIkodlp8HMM
Still not fully convinced to change my driving habits as I'm so used to doing head check. But I see OP's point in which AAMI encourages people to pick the potentially inferior way and driving instructors also teach people this way.
I appreciate your researched reply, unlike most people on here who are gagging to adjust their mirrors to make sure the rear doors haven’t flown away during their drive.
One thing where I'm happy to have inferior habits is that the 'older' way caters for older cars, or older cars with compomised mirrors, where style was more important than form or technology was not as modern.
A license lets you drive ANY vehicle, so I presume licensing authorities & instructors have to teach a way that's MOST compatible with as many cars (still on the road) as possible. It's one of those things where if you develop the right driving habits, it doesn't matter what car you end up driving, whereas if you rely on blindspot monitoring tech -> you are kind of at a disadvantage if you have to drive your drive your best friend's awesome classic car home, etc…
I also vaguely recall my family 1987 camry did not have mirrors that were as convex as my 1993 camry.
I remember the "wow I can see more moment" when I was allowed to drive the 'newer' camry.
Don't get me started on some of the mirrors on motorbikes… some stock ones are bloody useless.
That said, I will have to repeat my blind spot experiments again. Maybe you CAN cover all blind spots with side view & rear view mirrors in modern cars? But I still have 90's vehicles where this isn't the case (for small motorcycles at least, maybe OK for large SUVs & utes). I distinctly recall hiding my 125cc motorcycle (2013 CBR125R) from my wife in our 93 camry when showing her blind spots in a parking lot, and we set the mirrors as far wide as reasonable where you still get a bare glimpse of the car's side panel for quick positional alignment.
I also think, that if you're the type to always overtake others, people aren't as likely to be in your blind spots without you being unaware.
Wheres if you're like me & always get overtaken, people are more often in my 'blind spots' without me being aware.
A small convex mirror will tell you at a glance if there's anybody in the blind spot.
I'm too paranoid to not head check.
The bit at the bottom popped up when I went looking for statistics indicating how many people admit to using their phone in non hands free mode whilst driving.
Since we're talking about head checks, I thought it was interesting if not somewhat relevant.
(Most states come in about 25% of drivers. The Victorians are leading the way with over 53% though).
Approximately 7 people a year are verified to be engaging in sexual activity whilst driving.
The risk of serious injury is lower if you're entertaining yourself.
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/351202893_Sexual_ac…
Always head check. But - you should pretty well know you relationship to other nearby cars anyway and the head check either confims what you expect to see - or caters for unexpected movement by traffic.
If you are using the head check to really 'see where other drivers are' you need to lift your game. And there are plenty of you out there….🤦
lol I had a 'seasoned' driver with an overseas license telling me off when I was head-checking. It really pays to get proper lessons. The point really is to confirm an empty space, which takes less than a second. Compared to checking the phone, idk, if any notification pops up when you check, you will not be able to ignore them, that is where the danger lies.
Head check always.
Not the same as the phone! A head check takes between 0.5 and 1 sec. A phone check takes 1 sec until you unlock and focus your eyes on whatever is there.
Yes, phones behind the wheel do kill people, I've seen it.
It's called a BLIND spot for a reason.
It takes a fraction of a second to check, and not only are you seeing that spot, you're alert and see everything from the front around to the spot and back. You also have peripheral vision so when you're observing your blind spot, you'll catch any major changes ahead - if they happen within 0.5 seconds.
A phone is a totally different came entirely.
There's plenty of hypocritical rules around the use of phones in cars (e.g. I can operate a touch screen computer endlessly to control every function in my car, but not touch my phone at all).
That being said, this example isn't one of them. A head check does not involve context switching. You're (hopefully) looking at the road ahead, confirming there's no imminent hazards, then turning your head very briefly to do the same thing in the area you're looking to move into. This is all aimed at achieving a single goal; assessing potential hazards and traffic around you. Your focus does not deviate and there's little room for distraction.
Checking your phone involves switching your attention to something completely different, and opens the door to further distractions. Performing a head check is also much faster than, say, reading a text message. And while head checking helps build your mental map of traffic and hazards, whatever you're looking at on your phone will likely replace the mental map altogether or (at-best) render it outdated.
I won't be checking my phone when changing lanes.
Well I mean, if youre head checking youd just also ensure that traffic in front of you is fine? But also side view mirrors dont cover the entire side that its on, I've had plenty of times where the head checked caught a car that i didnt see with the side view mirror. I do think that having a camera and blind spot safety indicators kinda make it way easier to not check, but its still safer to do so anyways.
Also man the comparison to that and being on the phone is such a wild one. Headchecking is a 1-2 second thing, being on the phone can be 1 sec to like 10-15. I've seen so many near accidents from someone being on the phone rather than head checking.
if you adjust your mirror to see the blind spot you will likely open up a new blind spot.
The new blind spot is your backdoor. I’ll be happy to not see the backdoor it ain’t going to fly anywhere
I think some people use their car as a reference point
I’ll be happy to not see the backdoor it ain’t going to fly anywhere
I knew that car jacking didn't happen in Australia /s
(As if that's the only reason to be seeing what may be happening in that vicinity of your car).
If you can't see there (it is now a blind spot), how do you know there isn't a motor bike or some other road user there?
Or when not on the highway, how do you know there aren't pedestrians, children, cyclists etc there before turning or changing lanes?
I understand that you may not have been in any accidents, but how many have you caused because people you didn't see had to take evasive measures to avoid you obliviously running into them?
What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Thanks mike
people like OP is the reason why there are so many bad drivers on the road.
Just a person who likes to think rather than follow blindly.
you dont want to follow blindly but you rather change land blindy. arent you smart xD
OP is following SAE recommended positioning of mirrors, which ensure the vast majority of his lane changes aren’t “blindly”
The only lack of vision here is yours, by stubbornly refusing to adopt a method of adjusting mirrors that has been recommended for 30 years. Time to catch up to modern times, eh?
@michaelTito: There is 2 indeed, I’ve been hit twice by asshats checking their blind spot instead of looking where they’re going! It’s a disgrace! Absolutely no excuse when with correct positioning of their mirrors, there are no blind spots
@2027: i have been hit 4 times by idiots who only checked their side mirror when changing lane. could have avoided if they turned their head. idiots
could have avoided if they turned their head, or properly adjusted the mirrors so that there was no blind spot. idiots
FTFY
@michaelTito: It’s clear you were in their blind spot, (because their mirrors weren’t adjusted properly) much like progressive, learned driving habits are in your blind spot - it’s quite revealing how much ya’ll have in common.
Go and try the technique, you strike me as the type of person that would be perplexed at how repositioning a mirror would change the view point, perhaps even utterly dumbfounded. You might even think of it as magic once you discover the blind spot simply disappears! With no other explanation available to you, you’ll probably claim some kind of dark art is involved, move it back, and revert to shoulder checks.
@michaelTito: That’s fine, you’re indirectly lobbying for driverless cars with your preference to position your entire face opposite to the direction of travel, when a simple check of correctly positioned mirrors will suffice. The fewer people like you that we share the road with, the safer we our roads will be.
Unless of course they make the main forward facing sensors on these new cars whiplash around, not monitoring the road ahead, simply to check an artificial blind spot that is easily corrected, because old habits die hard? Simply trying to emulate your flawed driving technique? Well then, we’re doomed.
@2027: its ok because soon people like you who dont do head checks will no longer be on the road. everyone else have nothing to worry about
@michaelTito: It’s ok because soon people like you who cant or wont adjust a mirror to improve their own situational sweetness and the safety of others won’t be on the road
Hopefully you don’t ever drive a vehicle that doesn’t have rear door windows, how will you cope not being able to look out of them at a blind spot you could so easily cover with a mirror? A van, a truck, some utes, even a train driver uses mirrors correctly, but you can’t seem to comprehend how mirrors work.
I simply feel pity for you and grieve for the obvious waste of education that contributed to your current understanding of the basic principles of light.
@2027: nah the type of people who dont do head checks are the one to go first. wonder why there arent many of yous? i guess we all know why. i feel sorry for your family because of how stubborn you are. its ok they can look after themselves later on. i promise
wonder why there arent many of yous
That’s an interesting question, and it equally applies to income band, education levels and other measures in day to day life, I do enjoy being part of the minority in these and many more.
Sometimes I find myself wondering why there aren’t many astronauts, or nobel prize winners, but that’s a discussion I would rather have with anyone but you.
@2027: Wonder why not many people defending the OP? Because not many of your type of people left 🤣. Soon there will be less and less and the world will be a better place
Sounds like something a bad driver would say.
Head check is completely different to checking your phone you pillock.
Yes, you can possibly adjust your mirrors to reduce blind spots, but if youre checking your mirrors you are also not looking ahead.
How is a head check any different to checking your speed, mirrors etc? Its all about checking what is around you, not solely relying onnwhat is in front of you to determine what to do next.