The State of Ultrabooks

ProspectiveDarkness on 10/03/2014 - 00:21
Last edited 10/03/2014 - 00:32

The state of ultrabook here is atrocious. Pretty much the only options that are good value for money are Macs, and the Surface devices - neither of which technically qualify as ultrabooks. I don't know if it's entirely the manufacturers to blame or the retailers, but 90% of what I can see is just overpriced, mid range crap with nary an SSD, thin profile or decent display to be seen. Here's hoping things look up after Computex in June - though it'll probably all be overpriced and will subsequently drop off the shelves when, amazingly, it doesn't sell well.
There's absolutely no competition whatsoever.

  • Samsung hasn't released much at all since 2012, with the exception of the mid range Ativ Book 9 Lite and the atrociously priced Ativ Book 9 Plus ($2400, really?) - neither of which are widely available. They announced a single model earlier this year, but we've seen nothing of it and if their previous 15" model is any indication, it'll be expensive.
  • Sony's VAIO department is now dust and echoes.
  • Asus seems to be putting out a million and one low to mid range models in the hopes of fooling you into buying one - their ZenBooks are nowhere to be seen. They've been on the verge of releasing a new model for what seems like a year.
  • HP isn't doing anything.
  • Lenovo only just got the Yoga 2 Pro to Australia, and even then it's only one configuration at $2000.
  • Dell's XPS 13 line is only sold on their site and starts at $1800 - the smaller models are terrible value for money.

Whatever actually does get manufactured, it seems like the retailers go insane with their markups and make everything prohibitively expensive. Looking on half the retailers now is like stepping back in time. So what are we left with? What happened to the good old quality 13", 128GB/i5/4GB for -$1300 of 2012? Seems like everyone just gave up.
/rant

Computing Ultrabook

Comments

  • jace88 on 10/03/2014 - 00:24
    +4

    IMO just get a Macbook Air when DSE has it's near-monthly 10% off Apple computers sale, and install Windows on it if you're not happy with Mac OS X. May not be a true ultrabook but for the price, it's pretty difficult to beat. Added bonus is lots of other people have Macbooks around which means you can usually borrow someone's charger if you're in public and need a bit of juice.

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 10/03/2014 - 00:31
      +4

      This is definitely looking to be the best option. Even the Retina MacBook Pro's aren't that expensive, given what you're getting in them and compared to the competition.

      It just baffles me that none of the Windows OEM's see Apple's success in the high end market and think "Wow, they much be doing something right, we should try something like that". It seems like none of the OEM's are even trying to obtain the same brand power that Apple commands - they're just lazily throwing out whatever passes for a notebook these days.

      For months and months I've been prepared to throw my money at Samsung for a reasonable and competitive Haswell refresh of the Series (Ativ Book) 9, but I have yet to see it arrive.

      • ozhunter on 10/03/2014 - 00:47

        It seems like none of the OEM's are even trying to obtain the same brand power that Apple commands

        I think it has a lot to do with the OS as well. If you want OSX you'd buy a macbook. Windows users are much more likely to switch brands as all OEMs make windows laptops.

      • mrmarkau67 on 10/03/2014 - 16:35
        +1

        It just baffles me that none of the Windows OEM's see Apple's success in the high end market and think "Wow, they much be doing something right, we should try something like that". It seems like none of the OEM's are even trying to obtain the same brand power that Apple commands - they're just lazily throwing out whatever passes for a notebook these days.

        They tried and failed. Apple is making huge margins on Airs because Tim Cook is a supply chain genius. Apple probably pays less than any other manufacturer (even Samsung!) for almost all the components.

        If another OEM released something competitive with the Air, Apple would just reduce their prices slightly and take them out.

        Yes, we live in Bizarro World. Apple is the low cost manufacturer.

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 11/03/2014 - 20:28

          Yes, we live in Bizarro World. Apple is the low cost manufacturer.

          Indeed.

          I'd have thought Samsung, most of all, would be vying for the top spot as a Windows OEM, considering their vast resources and higher-than-ever brand awareness thanks to the Galaxy line. And then there's the other OEM's that have been making notebooks for-bloody-ever but still can't manage to compete in the high end. sigh

        • mrmarkau67 on 12/03/2014 - 10:39

          I don't get that either. You could have made the same argument 10 years ago about Sony, and look how they have ended up.

          When you buy a Mac, the screen may come from one of several suppliers. I wonder if the Samsung PC division is allowed to do that. If not, they are almost certainly "paying" (internal pricing) more for their components than Apple.

        • sien on 12/03/2014 - 14:10

          Apple used to make big profits on Airs. The newer ones come with considerably more up to date chips than the older ones.

          They still probably make 20% on them, but it's unlikely they make the ~30% on them that they used to.

        • Riczter on 12/03/2014 - 14:12

          Probably true, but thanks to their crafty market awareness and current pricing, as well as the failure of other manufacturers with their pricing, im willing to bet they are selling 3 times as many, hence still making more bucketloads of money than ever :P

        • RockyRaccoon on 12/03/2014 - 14:13

          If not, they are almost certainly "paying" (internal pricing) more for their components than Apple

          Really?

          My Friend, that's not the way it works..

          Dont confuse tax games with real games

        • Riczter on 12/03/2014 - 14:21
          +1

          I thought it was fact that apple got better component pricing than the competition because of their higher volumes? Are you saying that's not the case?

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 12/03/2014 - 16:58

          I wonder if the Samsung PC division is allowed to do that

          The original Series 9 didn't use a Samsung display, but I know the recent ATIV Book 9 Plus uses a Samsung display, as they also sell it to Lenovo for the Yoga 2 Pro. A newer model of the ATIV Book 9 is using the same plastic as the Note 3 (ugh). Based on all that, I'd imagine they're keeping things closer to home now in an attempt to further vertically integrate in a way Apple can't.

    • massafiri on 12/03/2014 - 19:10
      +1

      +1 Macbook Air from DSE when they have 10% off. I purchased my 256GB 2013 MBA for about $1200 when it first came out (10% off and 5% off for Staff)

      Best "Ultrabook" on the market. 13 Hours battery life, 30 day standby time, decent power.

      Honest story: I went to the USA, 100% Charge when I left.
      I used my MBA 10 times for about 1/2 hour each time (skype, facebook, internet banking, etc) while over there. I never turned off the Mac, only put it to sleep and I never plugged it into the charger.
      I came back 4 weeks later, 5% battery remaining.

      Awesome.

      • Utopian on 13/03/2014 - 10:06

        Timed-right, you could've got another 1/11th back (gst refund) too!

        • massafiri on 18/04/2014 - 14:23

          Sorry I did get my GST back also! ;) I just checked the receipt, after GST I got it from about $1100

  • [Deactivated] on 10/03/2014 - 00:55

    You could get the Asus S551lB for around 1.5k

    runs 4th gen i7, 2gb Nvidia GeForce 740M (mid-tier graphic card), 1tb hdd, touch screen, etc .
    The body is id say 80% aluminium finish and is very thin too for a 15.6"

    Pretty good system, better than mac imo.

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 10/03/2014 - 03:03
      +5

      It doesn't seem bad, but 'better' depends on what you're looking for. It's slightly heavy for an ultrabook, has a HDD w/ SSD cache in the place of a full SSD and has an average 1366 x 768 display. The battery life would also be much less than the Air's, thanks to the dedicated graphics and mechanical hard drive. I don't think it fits the 'ultrabook' bill as well an Air does.

  • plmko on 10/03/2014 - 01:35
    +2

    Are you even looking at the computers in store or are you just scoffing at them for no good reason? $1300 can get you those specs you've listed from all the manufacturers you've listed and then some…and maybe enough change left over the bus ride home. If they aren't priced like that, then you haven't been OzBargaining hard enough. Any of them will be better than the Mac Air, that is unless you value the Mac OSX.

    I mean take the Vaio Pro as an example, it's 1080p at 95% RGB whilst maintaining a touch screen filter, the Mac Air is just frugal 768p at 67% RGB.

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 10/03/2014 - 02:57
      +2

      As I noted in the OP, the Vaio's are being discontinued - so not such a great example. I'd argue that the Vaio's were more outliers than the norm anyway. The 2013 models were always relatively good value for money - especially so when on sale - but I don't think they're indicative of the entire ultrabook market.

      Any of them will be better than the Mac Air

      You're going to need to quote some models and numbers on that claim. The Macbook Air (say, the base 13" model) has great battery life, great build quality, great internal storage (a PCIe SSD unmatched by most) and pretty good CPU and iGPU options (the i5-4250U and i7-4650U w/ HD5000 iGPU are small improvements over the standard ultrabook fair). The 1440 x 900 (not 1366 x 768) display isn't great, no, and nor is the colour accuracy - but that's the weakest point of the Air and I'd say it's on par with, if not slightly better than what some of passes for an ultrabook these days.

      I'm not an Apple fanboy by any stretch of imagination - I created this topic because I'm annoyed at the clusterfuck of inconsistent models and not-quite-ultrabooks (some purported ultrabooks even have AMD CPU's, FFS) and the cases of disappearing products that are happening. I'd be happy to be proven wrong, and that there is a better option out there for a premium yet reasonable Windows ultrabook in Australia. But so far, I haven't been able to find that for $1248 - let alone the $1123 that the Macbook Air often reaches at the common 10% point.

    • striker5950 on 12/03/2014 - 18:07

      @$1300 can get you those specs you've listed from all the manufacturers you've listed and then some…
      i agree with you but only sony provides something for 1300, no other manufacture to my knowledge provides something similar specd for that price, if you find an please provide a link

  • cheepwun on 10/03/2014 - 02:43
    -2

    What happened to the good old quality 13", 128GB/i5/4GB for -$1300 of 2012? Seems like everyone just gave up.

    Hmm, that strikes me as laughably expensive. I can't believe people pay this much for a portable computer in 2014. Maybe most manufacturers would like to move machines in this range but just can't do it in the numbers Apple can?

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 10/03/2014 - 03:08
      +2

      I can't see how that price would surprise you. The last couple of notebooks I bought over the past decade were $1200 and $1500 (no, I had not discovered OzBargain yet, but still), and they devolved into clunky pieces of crap in the end. $1300 now will get you far, far more than even twice that amount would've 5 years ago.

      As I noted in the original post, most of Dell's ultrabooks start at either $1200 for the 11", extremely under-specced versions, or $1400 or $1800 depending on the line. This older generation Samsung ultrabook, which wasn't highly specced to begin with, fetched $900 only a few short months ago.

      I'd be perfectly happy paying $1300 for a quality, value for money ultrabook. My problem is finding one.

      Maybe most manufacturers would like to move machines in this range but just can't do it in the numbers Apple can?

      I'm sure they would love to move that many units in the high end. But to achieve that, they need to put in a bit more effort. Unlike Apple, their product lines are sloppy, they have barely any effective marketing and they have virtually no recognisable brand as high end device makers. They just seem content to cruise by on their low end models and push out a high end one at random.

      • cheepwun on 10/03/2014 - 12:17

        and they devolved into clunky pieces of crap in the end.

        Clunky in what sense?

        $1300 now will get you far, far more than even twice that amount would've 5 years ago.

        This would be one of the reasons I would never pay in excess of 1,000 for one. The tech moves too fast. Regarding screens, is there a certain quality or resolution you are after, as a minimum?

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 10/03/2014 - 13:39

          Clunky in what sense?

          Well, performance primarily, but build quality as well. Even with regular maintenance, they became a chore to use within a few years. They were never solidly built devices to begin with, and that situation didn't improve. I should mention these were both HP's, however.

          This would be one of the reasons I would never pay in excess of 1,000 for one. The tech moves too fast.

          Sure the tech moves fast, but at least if you pay just a few hundred dollars more you can get a headstart on the race as opposed to your average sub $1000 notebook. IMO SSD's are huge factors in improving general usage and the lifetime of the computer - wouldn't buy one without nowadays. I'd pay extra for this because I know I'll be more satisfied with it for longer than I would a lower priced notebook.

          Regarding screens, is there a certain quality or resolution you are after, as a minimum?

          Anything that's not the typical, crappy 1366 x 768 TN panel would be a start. The 1600 x 900 display (forget the type since it was a bit irregular) used on the original Samsung Series 9 would probably be the absolute bare minimum I'd accept in a premium device - which is a bit sad considering that was two years ago. 1080p IPS would be much more preferable. 2560 x 1440, or 3200 x 1800, would be wonderful if the hardware is capable enough to handle it.

        • cheepwun on 10/03/2014 - 16:58

          http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ns=p_PRICE_2|0&ci=18649&N=4110474289+4294948939+4294948938+4231656816+4294949013+4294949016+4289236231+4294949015+3997236831+4247997102+4178828545+4138043867&srtclk=sort&mnp=&mxp=1100.00

          I'm coming up with 4 models on B&H (1100 USD and under). Thought there would be more choice. I'm still surprised how much these go for, so it doesn't surprise me that the choices are slim.

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 11/03/2014 - 20:40

          I know there's a lot to be said about importing, but I was originally (accidentally edited out the emphasis, so my bad) referring primarily to the local market. I wouldn't need to bitch about availability if I were including grey market imports.

          Also, regarding the HP convertible you posted, I think there's a distinction to be made between ultrabooks and dock-style convertibles. The latter needs to fit all the important hardware into the 'tablet' section, so naturally the hardware has to be neutered a bit to be viable as a tablet. The docking mechanism and keyboard are also (generally) inferior to those of an ultrabook. For the intents and purposes of most they're the same, I suppose, but technically there's a difference - hence the substantial difference in price.

        • MrFunSocks on 12/03/2014 - 10:22
          +1

          IMO SSD's are huge factors in improving general usage and the lifetime of the computer - wouldn't buy one without nowadays. I'd pay extra for this because I know I'll be more satisfied with it for longer than I would a lower priced notebook.

          Why not just put an SSD into one of the cheaper laptops? The laptops you can get for $650-$800 these days are just crazy good value, even if they don't have an SSD. If you need an SSD just buy one after the fact and put it in. Seriously, you can get a good brand laptop with an i5 + 2gb nvidia GPU + 8GB RAM + 700gb or more HDD for like $650. I honestly can't imagine buying even a Macbook for twice that price, let alone any laptop for $1500+.

          My next computer will be a Surface Pro (probably 3 by the time I'm in the market for one as I only bought a new laptop 15 months ago, but only after a price drop from their release price. Not paying $1k when within 3 months it'll be $700 or less.

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 12/03/2014 - 16:41

          Why not just put an SSD into one of the cheaper laptops?

          That's true, you can - and I'd encourage it if you're looking to make the most out of a notebook. But we're getting offtrack here because, SSD notwithstanding, notebooks and ultrabooks aren't all equally suitable for the same purposes - just like a cheaper Bay Trail tablet isn't equally suitable for the same things.

          The defining traits of an ultrabook are a slim profile, light weight, and quality build construction - not things you find in the average mid-range notebook, in my experience (particularly build quality). Putting an SSD into a heavy, thick and loud notebook, well specced or not, won't help it achieve the thin and light construction of an ultrabook. I said SSD's are a huge factor in this whole business; I didn't say they were the only one. I'm happy paying the extra for these ultrabook traits, as I've already mentioned above - as long as it's still generally good value for money. Which, again thanks to availability and lack of competition, is hard to come by these days.

          TL;DR - a notebook + SSD isn't a good substitute for an ultrabook because it's still lacking the other features that makes ultrabooks so desirable.

          In any case, my example about the SSD was in regards to cheepwun's complaints of 'laughably expensive' hardware nowadays. Compared to a HDD, the SSD alone would also fall into this supposed category in terms GB/$ but its advantages are well worth the extra cost. The same can be said of the other features of an ultrabook compared to a notebook, if that's what you're after.

        • MrFunSocks on 12/03/2014 - 17:39
          +1

          Fair enough.

          To me, a slightly slimmer profile and lighter weight isn't even worth $100 extra because 99% of my laptop use is at a desk with a second screen hooked up. To those who use them "on the go" I'm sure it's well worth the extra money.

        • striker5950 on 12/03/2014 - 18:14

          @mrfunsocks. OP is talking about ultrabooks, you are clearly referring to traditional laptops notebooks which are not the same thing

        • Utopian on 13/03/2014 - 10:16

          They're not sending it to the moon, where every gram counts. If carrying another 500-1000grams is hard work, maybe they should be on the moon.

          Being the lightest or slimmest is a gimmick for petty buyers. Gimme more battery life and/or power/features, in a common size.

          Same reason I love the Samsung Note series of phones.

        • MrFunSocks on 13/03/2014 - 16:31

          The difference between ultrabooks and regular laptops is pretty much just a smaller weight and size.

          I'm saying that to me a 0.5cm thicker laptop and 200gs more weight isn't worth over twice the price, especially when you can put an SSD into any laptop not just an ultrabook.

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 13/03/2014 - 17:49

          Being the lightest or slimmest is a gimmick for petty buyers. Gimme more battery life and/or power/features, in a common size.

          So because we ultrabook buyers prioritise different areas of portable computing than you, we're 'petty buyers'? Not everyone (in fact, I'd argue very few people) needs more power or features in a notebook, and yes an extra kilogram can make a lot of difference if you're carrying it around all day, every day. It's the difference between being able to slip it into a handbag or messenger bag, or carrying around a heavy duty backpack all the time. And let's not forget the fact that, in keeping everything thin and light, an ultrabook is most likely a better engineered and solid device than any number of creaky mid-range notebooks out there.

          Also, I think you'll find that increased physical size is not proportional to increased battery life - especially if the manufacturer tries to pack in all the extra 'power/features' that you're after, compared to the low power Haswell chips used in ultrabooks.

          You can keep your common sized notebooks, there's plenty of them to go around, but try not to rag on the rest of us for wanting something different. You're arguing against an entire segment of the notebook market, simply because it doesn't fit your (rapidly aging) usage case. Seeing as you're equating a few extra GHz and GB's with outright 'better', regardless of people's actual needs, then I'd argue you're just as petty as the people you accuse.

      • xsacha on 10/03/2014 - 17:35
        +1

        I bought a laptop in 2010 with a core i5, 128GB Intel SSD, 14" 1600x900 screen powered by a hybrid Intel HD Graphics and AMD Radeon 5650M GPU. Made of machined aluminium. Imported it from the US, directly from HP, for US$990 + $60 postage. At the time the dollar was about the same as now.

        I bought it as a Core i3 but they upgraded it to a Core i5 for free because postage took too long.

        I honestly can see no reason to upgrade.

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 11/03/2014 - 20:43

          Imported it from the US, directly from HP, for US$990 + $60 postage.

          And there are no problems with international warranty, or anything? That's one of the reasons why I'm usually hesitant to consider imported options when comparing - in addition to shipping forwarding and currency conversion, etc (depends where you buy, I know). I guess it doesn't seem like a huge deal, and I'll probably end up having to look into it if the situation in Aus doesn't improve, but importing wouldn't be my first preference.

        • mrmarkau67 on 12/03/2014 - 10:42

          Sounds a bit of a bargain. What brand was it?

  • AngusMcKinnon on 10/03/2014 - 08:16

    Have another look at the Samsung. Model is NP940X3G. Outstanding ultra book. I've bought several ultras and this one is brilliant. Reach for it before the Air every time. Only minor niggle is 4gb ram but no issues so far. I paid $1450 at Chatswood JBHIFI.

    • verio on 10/03/2014 - 10:45
      +1

      Never thought that I would say this in my life, but in this case Apple's product has a better value for money in terms of technical specifications. For $1368 you can get the Macbook Air with 8GB or for the same $1450 you'll get it with 256GB of SSD, which is a serious advantage. Plus MBA has a PICe SSD, which NP940X3G does not.

      • ProspectiveDarkness on 10/03/2014 - 13:24

        The Plus also had a 3200 x 1800 display. Which model is better for the individual depends on whether they'd rather sacrifice some performance or display quality, but yeah, I'd say the Air was better value for money overall. Let's not even talk about the Plus' initial price.

      • AngusMcKinnon on 12/03/2014 - 08:23
        +1

        I don't agree hence why I bought the Samsung :)

        Crazy screen quality and resolution, SSD, backlit keyboard, touch screen monitor, could type on it better etc.

        I wanted to buy an air or a pro but just felt like they were still a couple of years behind everyone else. Love my iPhone. Love my iPad. Still can't like let alone love the apple notebook range and I have bought a few.

        $1450 I bought the one that was on display. Was $1650 on the ticket. The in store Sony rep gave me the discount :)

        • mrmarkau67 on 12/03/2014 - 10:50

          I think that Samsung competes more with the Macbook Pro Retina. And good luck getting it for $1450 this week.

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 10/03/2014 - 13:20

      I paid $1450 at Chatswood JBHIFI.

      Seriously? That's a great price, considering they're $1400 in the US. However, that was probably a clearance sale, seeing as they've completely disappeared from the JB website and I can't seem to find any in stores. I would've jumped on one at that price :-(

      • ozhunter on 10/03/2014 - 13:24

        It was around $1750 mid-November at Jb hi-fi. I had such a hard time deciding between this and the 13" rmbp. Finally decided on the rmbp.

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 11/03/2014 - 20:45

          Damn, must have missed it - I assume that was the clearance sale. They were very nice machines though. How's the rMBP going? Are you using Windows or OSX?

        • ozhunter on 11/03/2014 - 23:42

          It's going great. I'm starting to use osx more and more. I don't really do anything on it except browsing, word/excel, media consumption so I don't get extra use out of it compared to Windows.

          OSX looks great especially the app store, dock, and launchpad which in a way makes it more enjoyable to use. It's nice to go on the app store and look for apps. Battery life is bit better on osx too.

          Things that I like about window is internet download manager, no app on osx can match it. The window snap and window preview(hyperdock on osx does this but costs $10.50), windows is slightly snappier/faster. VLC player also seems to work better on windows.

    • striker5950 on 12/03/2014 - 18:17

      @AngusMcKinnon, when did u make ur purchase? was it on special? the best price i can find by searching the model n on staticice is $1917. please let me know

      • AngusMcKinnon on 13/03/2014 - 08:05

        About 3 or 4 weeks ago now.

  • ethereal88 on 10/03/2014 - 08:36
    +1

    Custom obviously. Look at Horize. The big manufacturers are all trash.

    • mrmarkau67 on 10/03/2014 - 16:16

      The big manufacturers each have several ranges of models. Apple excluded, each manufacturer has a trash range, a business range and then a high end range.

      Also, do Horize make Haswell Ultrabooks? Link please?

    • xsacha on 10/03/2014 - 17:40
      +1

      Custom tends to be thicker and less battery life because the motherboards are customisable/'off-the-shelf' too.

  • Sunny84 on 10/03/2014 - 10:03

    I got a Toshiba Z830 for around 1200.

    The newer z930 is around the same price and its really durable.

  • MITM on 10/03/2014 - 10:21

    I got excited about Ultrabooks for uni a few years back. Primarily for weight and battery life compared to the notebooks and I would have thought SSD would be the norm for speed, min power use, environment robustness, running huge graphics applications. The Zen seemed to be the go to back then, but I passed anyway.

    Seems tablets became the worldwide focus - hence OP's rant.

    Now, today I'd like to swap my PC tower at work to a notebook (or ultra) so I can take my work home, and not having to jump onto the home computer/connect/download etc.

    So I'll be watching this thread to see the recommendations, and likewise, I dont have $1,ooo's either.

    Not a mac fanboy either.

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 10/03/2014 - 13:47

      Seems tablets became the worldwide focus - hence OP's rant.

      Yep. Bay trail tablets are all the rage nowadays, but for most actual productivity uses they couldn't hope to match an ultrabook. The performance is reduced, they often use eMMC memory instead of superior SSD's, and the typing experience usually leaves a great deal wanting.

      The Surface tablets offer better performance than these Bay Trail tablets, but it still isn't on par with ultrabooks, the battery life suffers, and, again, the typing experience / ergonomics are often inadequate - especially if you don't have a flat surface handy.

  • Riczter on 10/03/2014 - 13:13
    +1

    Yeah the Vaio Pro were looking pretty good at one stage, then i heard they were being discontinued. At the time I assumed it was because a new model was coming out.. But maybe not. It's weird that an apple product is actually price competitive haha, hopefully the market changes and manufactures come to terms with the fact that no intelligent buyer wants a $1500 ultrabook that hasnt got an SSD and full HD Screen. I don't understand why they haven't figured this out yet. It's may belief that they are just preying on the ignorance of less educated buyers who dot know the benefits of an SSD and think that more GB = better hard drive.

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 10/03/2014 - 13:17

      At the time I assumed it was because a new model was coming out.

      Unfortunately, Sony is selling the VAIO division because it wasn't profitable.

      hopefully the market changes and manufactures come to terms with the fact that no intelligent buyer wants a $1500 ultrabook that hasnt got an SSD and full HD Screen.

      Amen. These things were in abundance in the first ultrabook boom, but now the OEM's are falling into old habits and cutting corners wherever possible, it seems.

      • Riczter on 10/03/2014 - 13:51
        +2

        I think intel should be a bit more restrictive with the ultrabook term. Make it only be able to be used on laptops that are actually thin and light, have at least a 128GB SSD and a full HD screen. That would shake up the market a bit ;)

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 11/03/2014 - 20:49
          -1

          Make it only be able to be used on laptops that are actually thin and light

          That annoys me a great deal. I think it's more the retailers that try to slap the name on anything to get it to sell. Can't see that changing any time soon, unfortunately, since it's far too widespread a practice to be viable for legal action.

          That would shake up the market a bit ;)

          True… or at the OEM end, it could discourage them from competing altogether, if they could no longer have their mid-tier notebooks sell under the ultrabook name for high end prices. :/

  • thewheat on 10/03/2014 - 13:14
    +12

    Totally agree on this. I was looking for an ultrabook in December and looking at the specs and prices, MacBook Airs proved to be the best value. In the end I decided to further wait it out despite using a 4 year old Core 2 duo MBP..

    Not sure if my lists below would help anybody, but putting them out there in case they do.

    The first list I compiled in December is based on the 4th Gen i5 processor (only 2 other manufacturers other than Apple had the HD 5000/5100)

    • Apple – MacBook Air – HD 5000 (i5-4250U / i7-4650U via Anandtech)
    • Lenovo – ThinkPad Yoga – HD 4400 (i5-4200U / i7-4500U)
    • Lenovo – ThinkPad X240 – HD 4400 (i5-4200U / i5-4300U / i7-4600U)
    • Lenovo – ThinkPad T440s – HD 4400 (i5-4300U / i7-4600U)
    • Lenovo – ThinkPad X1 Carbon – HD 4000 (3rd generation i5 / i7)
    • Sony – VAIO Pro 11 – HD 4400 (i5-4200U)
    • Sony - VAIO Pro 13 – HD 4400 (i5-4200U / i7-4500U)
    • Dell – XPS 13 - HD 4400 (i5-4200U / i7-4500U)
    • Dell – XPS 12 - HD 4400 (i5-4200U)
    • Dell – XPS 11 – HD 4200 (i5-4210Y / i5-4300Y)
    • Asus – Zenbook UX301LA - HD 4400 / HD 5100 (i5-4200U / i7-4500U /i7-4558U)
    • HP - ZBook 14 Mobile Workstation - HD 4400 (i5-4200U / i5-4300U / i7-4600U)
    • HP - EliteBook 820 G1 - HD 4400 (i5-4200U/ i5-4300U / i7-4600U)
    • HP – EliteBook 840 G1 - HD 4400 (i5-4200U / i5-4300U / i7-4600U)
    • HP – EliteBook Folio 1040 G1- HD 4400 / HD 5000 (i5-4200U / i5-4300U / i7-4600U / i7-4650U)
    • HP - Spectre 13 Pro - HD 4400 (i5-4200U / i7-4500U)
    • Samsung - Ativ Book 9 Plus – HD 4400 (i5-4200U)

    Links to each of the devices are in the blog post I did (a bit lazy to copy and paste all the links)

    The next list was in terms of price and spec (based in December with any Christmas sales on at the time).

    MBA           | 11.6" | 1366 x  768 | 1.08 kg | 30.0 x 1.7 x 19.2 | 1099 | i5 |       | 1.3-2.6 | HD 5000 | 4GB | 128 SSD
                                                                    1219 | i5 |       | 1.3-2.6 | HD 5000 | 8GB | 128 SSD
                                                                    1399 | i7 |       | 1.7-3.3 | HD 5000 | 8GB | 128 SSD
                                                                    1349 | i5 |       | 1.3-2.6 | HD 5000 | 4GB | 256 SSD
                                                                    1469 | i5 |       | 1.3-2.6 | HD 5000 | 8GB | 256 SSD
                                                                    1649 | i7 |       | 1.7-3.3 | HD 5000 | 8GB | 256 SSD
MBA           | 13.3" | 1440 x  900 | 1.35 kg | 32.5 x 1.7 x 22.7 | 1249 | i5 |       | 1.3-2.6 | HD 5000 | 4GB | 128 SSD
                                                                    1369 | i5 |       | 1.3-2.6 | HD 5000 | 8GB | 128 SSD
                                                                    1449 | i5 |       | 1.3-2.6 | HD 5000 | 4GB | 256 SSD
MBPr          | 13.3" | 2560 x 1600 | 1.57 kg | 31.4 x 1.8 x 21.9 | 1559 | i5 |       | 2.4-2.9 | HD 5100 | 4GB | 128 SSD
                                                                    1849 | i5 |       | 2.4-2.9 | HD 5100 | 8GB | 256 SSD


Thinkpad Yoga | 12.5" | 1920 x 1080 | 1.58 kg | 31.7 x 2.2 x 19.4 | 1599 | i5 | 4200U | 1.6-2.6 | HD 4400 | 4GB | 128 SSD
X240          | 12.5" | 1366 x  768 | 1.42 kg |                   | 1599 | i5 | 4200U | 1.6-2.6 | HD 4400 | 4GB | 500 HDD
X1 Carbon     | 14.0" | 1600 x  900 | 1.36 kg |                   | 1599 | i5 | 3337U | 1.8-2.7 | HD 4000 | 4GB | 128 SSD
T440          | 14.0" | 1600 x  900 | 1.8  kg | 33.9 x 2.1 x 23.3 | 1599 | i5 | 4300U | 1.9-2.9 | HD 4400 | 4GB | 128 SSD


XPS 11        | 11.6" | 2560 x 1440 | 1.13 kg | 30.0 x 1.5 x 20.1 | 1499 | i5 | 4210Y | 1.5-1.9 | HD 4200 | 4GB | 128 SSD
XPS 12        | 12.5" | 1920 x 1080 | 1.52 kg | 31.7 x 2.0 x 21.5 | 1699 | i5 | 4200U | 1.6-2.6 | HD 4400 | 4GB | 128 SSD
XPS 13        | 13.3" | 1920 x 1080 | 1.37 kg | 31.6 x 1.8 x 20.5 | 1499 | i5 | 4200U | 1.6-2.6 | HD 4400 | 8GB | 128 SSD

VAIO Pro 11   | 11.6" | 1920 x 1080 | 0.87 kg | 28.5 x 1.7 x 19.7 | 1399 | i5 | 4200U | 1.6-2.6 | HD 4400 | 4GB | 128 SSD
VAIO Pro 13   | 13.3" | 1920 x 1080 | 1.06 kg | 32.2 x 1.7 x 21.6 | 1499 | i5 | 4200U | 1.6-2.6 | HD 4400 | 4GB | 128 SSD

    Links:

    • Tnetennba on 10/03/2014 - 14:29
      +2

      XPS 13 | 13.3" | 1920 x 1080 | 1.37 kg | 31.6 x 1.8 x 20.5 | 1499 | i5 | 4200U | 1.6-2.6 | HD 4400 | 8GB | 128 SSD

      I purchased this in January, for $1499 (+$15 software to get a higher coupon to work) - 12% student discount, came to $1331. Now I look at the dell website, $1799. What the hell? I am very satisfied with it for $1300 but NO WAY for $1800! I don't know what happened but everything recently seems to have jumped ridiculously high.

      • Riczter on 10/03/2014 - 14:43

        geez the haswell i7, 8GB, 256GB was $1599 when i bought it last year… now $2100. I mean i know RAM is pretty expensive atm but $1800 for an i5 seems very excessive.

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 11/03/2014 - 20:53

          Wow, that's ridiculous. I've always liked the XPS 13 line, but not for those prices, Dell.

        • Riczter on 11/03/2014 - 22:21

          Oh my mistake, i thought it said XPS 12 (the convertible)

      • scud70 on 12/03/2014 - 14:47

        Yes that's accurate, we buy dell products for work and at the business level their prices went up last year and it was a significant increase, it has filtered down to the consumer products as well. I used to be able to find great value for money products from Dell whenever someone asked for my advice on a laptop but now i dont even bother visiting the website.

        I have to agree, i have found it very frustrating and difficult to find a decent ultrabook or even a light note book with acceptable specs for an acceptable price, usually there's always one or two out there but i've been looking for two family members and i have to say its taking me a hell of a lot longer to get a match for what they want than it used to in the past…

    • mrmarkau67 on 10/03/2014 - 16:21
      +1

      In the end I decided to further wait it out despite using a 4 year old Core 2 duo MBP.

      Upgrade to 8GB and put an SSD in it and you may get another couple of years.

  • sm007h on 10/03/2014 - 15:31

    Prices of laptops are going up, and manufacturers want this trend to continue. Last year, manufacturers had a higher exchange rate, and because of oversupply, there were price pressures to lower inventory and also to meet their sales targets.

    This year, all vendors have lowered their forecasts. The higher prices you are seeing is because there are not as many deals happening on the wholesale level as last year.

  • Geekomatic on 10/03/2014 - 15:48

    I was working electronics retail when tablets started coming in.

    My take on the demise of the cheaper "netbooks" is that they couldn't have a $300 dual-core, 250- 320GB, 2-4GB RAM, full OS (Win 7) — sitting on the bench next to the anaemic "viewers of the internet" for the same cost or more, now could they?

    I think the laptop co's decided that in order to push & sell their tablets, the cheap netbooks had to go. They also all seemed to unanimously decide to launch "ultrabooks"- which to me were over-powered for the intended use as basic-use laptops? You also began to lose the DVD drive, as well (though some Toshiba's managed to still work it in).

    My most useful little netbook I bought during the Clickfrenzy promo from crayons.com.au (of all places!). It came to me with free shipping for $149. It's perfectly fast & does all I need. If I ever want a boost, I'll put a small SSD into it.

    All that to say— there are still a few low-end netbooks out there, but you have to poke around.

    Cheers!

  • morpheu on 10/03/2014 - 18:13
    +1

    i agree on the disparity on ultrabook pricing/features, apart from Macbook Air the better Asus Zenbook, Acer S7 and Yoga 2 Pro get my approval except for pricing, seems the margins are way higher at this end of the market, my take on ultrabooks is you either pay a mozza for 'everything but the kitchen sink' or you get something cheap and/or nasty where most features have being cut back like the crappy 1368x768 lcd instead of 1600x900 or higher, or a hybrid 500gb hdd instead of a 128/256gb ssd etc i mean, how many times have you seen a laptop with an Intel Core i7 but with a 1366x768 lcd?
    it seems the mid range ultrabook is a real challenge for manufacturers where they walk a fine line between quality and pricing, maybe that's why they concentrate mostly on the two extremes?
    Also i find it interesting(and sometimes disturbing!) sometimes when you go online to configure a custom spec laptop, and you change one little feature like 4gb->8gb or change a wireless card and the price increases disproportionately, i mean, what's going on here, is there a magical line where if you go over a certain value or something the price shoots up?!

  • porsche26c on 10/03/2014 - 19:59

    i agree that all ultrabooks are overpriced crap. i do love the vaio range (they have been sold but its like ibm and lenovo - they will be around).
    out of all the PC makers sony i feel make the best machines - however they are pricer
    the vaio 13 pro comes with 1080p screens and touch which is great with windows 8.

    • Tnetennba on 12/03/2014 - 13:04
      +1

      Vaio Pro 13 is discontinued

      I was looking into it, but decided against it solely because of the 4gb (really, sony?) of soldered-on RAM.. no chance to expand it past that ridiculously low amount.

      • striker5950 on 12/03/2014 - 18:26

        everyone keeps saying how the vaio pro 13 is discontinued i don't understand what that has to do with anything, does it make it a bad choice? its a great machine and the ONLY current contender to the macbook air in terms of specs and PRICE.

        • Tnetennba on 16/03/2014 - 16:47
          +1

          Oh, sorry I meant it's probably out of stock due to it being discontinued. It doesn't make it a bad choice if you want those specs :)

  • Risser on 10/03/2014 - 21:01

    I run a Lenovo X220 at work. Great machine, plenty of power, use it 10+ hours a day with a dock (connected to a 24" screen). Bought the larger battery for plenty of life when needed. I'd buy another.

    • hubertlam on 10/03/2014 - 21:56
      +1

      I have the X230T and it's quite thick and heavy by comparison when you look at the ultrabooks.

      However, it does have a plethora of ports and output options, as opposed to ultrabooks, as well as upgradeability/repairability (SSD dies? No worries! Need more RAM, just pop open some screws instead of kill the motherboard!)

      • jace88 on 12/03/2014 - 10:54

        Agreed. I am also using the X230 and find it's decent spec-wise/port-wise but it doesn't have the same sleekness that my C2D Macbook Air 11" has. Somehow the MBA still feels so brisk even in 2014.

  • exp1 on 10/03/2014 - 21:28
    +3

    It's always been like this. Back in 2010 I bought a Macbook Pro 13 inch as it was the only option with a stated 10hr battery life around $1400. There was no competition. Back then netbooks/ultrabooks (offering 6-8hrs stated battery life) from competitors were the flavour of the month and several of my friends bought them. One bought a Lenovo netbook, others bought from Asus, Toshiba and other brands. I bought a MSI gaming laptop in 2009 as well.

    Today, I am the only person using the same laptop from that period. The others have not held up due to overheating (Toshiba, ASUS), broken hinges (my MSI) and defective keyboards (Lenovo). My macbook is as good as new, now it is even better with a SSD upgrade. People tend to dismiss Macbooks due to their price but also tend to understate their quality. If you go into any electronics retailer these days a lot of new laptops pay homage to the Macbook Pro design and they look remarkably similar which shows something.

    People who deny the merits of the Macbook tend to focus on specs. My MSI gaming laptop was a beast in its time but now can't even hold up to the daily wear and tear my macbook does. I recently upgraded the MSI with an SSD, replaced the thermal paste, thermal pads, and cleaned out the dust but it stills runs hot. It is also extremely prone to drops due to the plastic housing. It just sits at home permanently now with occasional use, but is very fragile cos of the broken hinges/frame.

    Macbooks are very tough with its aluminium unibody design, I thought it was all a gimmick until now. Importantly they look most professional (since you can't really bring loud gaming laptops with neon lights to client meetings etc.)

    • SydStrand on 11/03/2014 - 16:05
      +1

      I'm sure there's some guy out there who brings his aircraft carrier of a gaming laptop riced up with LEDs, fake vents, component stickers and Razer mouse to board meetings.

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 11/03/2014 - 21:05
      +1

      That's not entirely what I was referring to. Nowadays there are high end Windows notebooks (Dell XPS 13, Sony VAIO Pro, Samsung ATIV Book 9, Lenovo Yoga Pro 2) - that would be much better options than netbooks and gaming machines - that look professional and are of quality build and specs. It's not as if the entire Windows high end segment is made up of ostentatious gaming machines or the other options you described. The problem is availability and, as I was saying in the original post, they often cost too much to be worthwhile.

      The biggest point in Apple's favour from my perspective is how rigidly they control their pricing and their lineup. You don't get a half-assed effort with a single, expensive model every now and then - you get the full lineup (which is fairly sizable) at more-or-less consistent and definitely competitive pricing.

      • exp1 on 13/03/2014 - 01:24

        That makes sense. I'm sure there are a lot more quality options in laptops these days that didn't fill my criteria in the past. But it always seems to come down to price/availability. Once in a while the prices on these do come down to competitive levels but those sales are few and far between, that may be because not many new models are being released to warrant the sale of previous ones.

    • Ventak on 12/03/2014 - 02:37
      +1

      That's quite sad yet true…same goes for my Samsung laptop - when I first bought it, it had long battery life, quick bootup times, not prone to overheating easily and could run games quite well (as an example, Dota 2 could run at 60 FPS at max settings). Now…that same laptop is a shadow of it's former self, crashing frequently, the battery pretty much dead, heating up within less than 5 minutes and barely able to run any games even on low settings (to use the same example, Dota 2 runs at <20 FPS at low settings, and then deteriorates to <10 FPS quickly after a game has started).

  • sash213 on 10/03/2014 - 21:41

    Bought Toshiba Z930 for $764 in 2012. Love it. Really light, fast and easy to keep in good condition.

    Doesn't have Full HD, only negative.

    • leonheart1 on 10/03/2014 - 22:00

      Damn that was a good price. Where from?

      • fomal on 10/03/2014 - 22:31

        https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/80721

        That one, insane price

        • leonheart1 on 10/03/2014 - 22:43

          Darn. I paid $900 for the z830 a year before that but got a refund due to the fan noise. Supposedly it's been fixed on the z930 but the comments on that thread gives me doubt.

  • LYRICALRAVER on 10/03/2014 - 22:41
    -4

    People want to imagine what they think an ultrabook should be: 'light as a feather' but 'faster than the speed of light -computing! we don't have that technology yet . don't you notice heavy machinery often means more solid performance?? look at Nokia phone batterys etc.. they lasted much longer than you're so called sony lightweight xperia that died in 5 minutes of intense use.! LOL

    • Riczter on 10/03/2014 - 22:58
      +5

      yes we do, current gen processors run plenty fast, as long as they are paired with 8GB RAM and an SSD instead of a 5400rpm HDD. What we want is these things at an affordable price.
      The old nokia batteries were probably far inferior than current gen batteries. they only lasted longer coz they weren't powering 5" fullHD touch screens and 4G radios..

  • netsurfer on 10/03/2014 - 23:14

    There are multiple issues with PC Ultrabooks:

    • The PC Ultrabook makers are not selling enough units, which in turns means they are not producing many units. That means they cannot get good price for the parts.
    • They are late to the market. It is like the tablet market.
    • Macs can run Windows 7 and other Windows operating systems.

    Now, the reality:

    • It is the SSDs which make Ultrabooks / MacBook Air / Laptops so much more attractive nowadays.
    • Most people don't need a powerful CPU nowadays. The SSD is more important.
    • Only higher end Ultrabooks / Laptops would have a high res screen, so you cannot really have a decent CPU Ultrabook with a great screen cheaply.
    • While IPS monitors are getting popular for PCs / Desktops and pretty much a must for phones / tablets, it is not the case for Ultrabooks and Laptops - not even Apples ones (don't believe me? go to an Apple store and check it out yourself). IPS screens on Ultrabooks and Laptops are very rare.

    A lot of people want Ultrabooks, and the manufacturers know that. They are not having fire sale on Ultrabooks.

    My friend has a cheap Ultrabook (average / sub-par CPU, but with SSD). He likes it very much. Not everyone does 1080p video editing or heavy 3D rendering all the time (and if you do, you probably want to do those things on a desktop).

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 11/03/2014 - 21:33

      The PC Ultrabook makers are not selling enough units

      A lot of people want Ultrabooks, and the manufacturers know that. They are not having fire sale on Ultrabooks.

      Those two points seem contradictory to me. If the current ultrabook lineups aren't selling well, yet there is still demand for ultrabooks, then obviously the OEM's need to change their tunes a bit to meet that demand. Instead of winding down and settling back into the old habits (shortcutting specs and build quality to maintain margins), perhaps they should actively explore other competitive measures. It doesn't have to be a fire sale, but putting prices up several hundred dollars (Dell, as per the comments above) won't exactly help them move more units.

      Most people don't need a powerful CPU nowadays. The SSD is more important.

      I very much agree, and the i5-4200U that most ultrabooks went with this generation is perfectly adequate. Given the battery life advantages Haswell gives, I wouldn't go with anything else, though.

      Only higher end Ultrabooks / Laptops would have a high res screen, so you cannot really have a decent CPU Ultrabook with a great screen cheaply.

      Sure, great displays cost a fair bit - as per the Lenovo Yoga 2 Pro and Samsung ATIV Book 9 Plus. That doesn't mean they can't offer well-rounded specs for more reasonable prices, though. It's often too far in one direction (aforementioned Lenovo and Samsung - and any number of mid-range notebooks with i7's and 8GB of RAM whilst lacking in everything else) or too far in the other (cheap crap). Only Apple seems to have fallen into a happy medium.

  • oringal on 11/03/2014 - 01:21
    +1

    Dell just refreshed their XPS 13 ultrabook with a touch screen just last month, so if you keep an eye out on the Dell outlet store, you may be able to see last gen(still haswell) non touch XPS 13 on sale for less than $1000.

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 11/03/2014 - 21:18
      +1

      That's very interesting, thanks. Only downsides would be the one year limited warranty, low chance of getting a brand new model and the Outlet's terrible ordering system. Still, I'll keep it in mind.

      • WhyAmICommenting on 12/03/2014 - 08:47

        Statutory warranty.. should be at least 2 years on a laptop especially around the $1000 mark.

        • ProspectiveDarkness on 12/03/2014 - 16:48

          From what I hear, statutory warranty isn't exactly foolproof or overly dependable. Wouldn't want to put all my eggs in that basket should something go wrong - especially considering the Outlet sells not quite brand new devices in the first place. They could very well argue that the expected lifetime of the product isn't quite comparable to a brand new one, and that you should know what you're getting into by purchasing from there.

  • hlov on 11/03/2014 - 14:31

    What about this one?
    http://m.catchoftheday.com.au/event/37564/product/hp-envy-17…

    • Riczter on 11/03/2014 - 14:54
      +3

      what about it? Its not an ultrabook, its not light at 2.85kg its not thin at 30.7mm its not full HD screen it hasn't got an SSD drive.

      Not a terrible price for the specs though.

  • SydStrand on 11/03/2014 - 15:44
    +3

    This is a sore point with me. I was hunting for an ultrabook in 2012 with a set of features: 128 or 256GB SSD, at least a 1440x900 screen, thin/light, backlit keyboard. Everything I found either dropped the ball on some point or was actually more expensive than a Mac.

    For some reason, PC vendors can't seem to reach that $1000 sweet spot and with Sony leaving the market, it doesn't look any better. I'm a Windows guy but wound up picking up 13" Air and why not? It's very well built, I get the peace of mind that comes with Apple's customer support and it was actually cheaper than the competition at $1200. The trade-off with PC laptops used to be inferior hardware but better value, now with this bizarre pricing, they don't even win on that point. No wonder Apple is dominating the $USD 1000+ laptop market.

  • solidice on 11/03/2014 - 17:38
    +1

    I have been looking for a new laptop for a few weeks now. I was considering a Toshiba Z30. Unfortunately, everywhere I called is out of stock for approximately 4 weeks. Then comes the crazy part. I have seen prices of the laptop rise for the last week or so by an average of ~$150. When I have asked retailers why, the response is demand is exceeding supply. One shop in Perth has a backlog of over 50 people who have put deposits down for a Z30. If I was happy to put a deposit down I was told I could get one by early May. The ultrabook market at the moment has lost the plot!

    • Riczter on 11/03/2014 - 17:42

      Which shop? Austin? Still hasn't got Full HD but otherwise looks very decent.

  • jacknthebeanstalk on 11/03/2014 - 19:57

    Bought an Asus u38n refurbished ultra in December.
    - 13.3", A8 AMD, 128gb SSD, hd resolution, touch screen, windows 8 , 1.6kg. Comes with warranty too.
    For $600. It's not bad but battery life…

    Then I saw the toshiba z930 refurbished for $600 with better specs.

    • ProspectiveDarkness on 11/03/2014 - 21:16

      That doesn't seem like bad deal, but in regards to the current ultrabook market, I think there'd be an expectation for a 1+ year old, AMD-based refurbished notebook to cost less than the brand new Intel-based models I had in mind.

    • surm on 12/03/2014 - 08:00

      Where did you find these refurbished bargains?

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