Hi Guys
I received an email from Origin energy saying nothing to pay for Solar System. I Am not sure whether is this a deal or not so please share your thoughts.
Origin Energy - Go Solar without Paying for the System (T&C Apply)
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AM6692 on 23/06/2015 - 12:15 products.originenergy.com.au (909 clicks)
Last edited 23/06/2015 - 13:41 by 1 other user
Last edited 23/06/2015 - 13:41 by 1 other user
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you still pay for electricity I think… just at a lower rate as it is generated
So they pay for the equipment and maintenance that allows you to convert a free resource into energy that powers your home. You pay a lower rate though for this energy to be used compared to the traditional rate/method. Everything is telling me that this is not a deal.
1/ What does solar equipment cost
2/ How much would you spend annually on maintenance
3/ You are then paying to use this solar power, which would be free if you just installed yourself
which would be free if you just installed yourself
Apart from the costs in 1 and 2…
1) Depends how big your system is.. but anywhere from $2000-8000 after rebates
2) Not much at all, bit of detergent and water and a long handled squeegee.. Time is far and away the biggest maintenance cost.It is a deal if you can't afford the initial and ongoing costs of a solar system. If the rates you pay are less than the rates you pay for electricity then you will save money. But it's Origin taking the risk, not you which means you have to pay.
If you want to take the risk and reap a greater reward you can do that as well.
This is just a product or service from Origin energy than a deal.
I totally agree but when i saw 0$ for the whole system so got confused and shared it at OZbargain. If it is not a deal then i am happy to delete it.
I would like to know as well.
Normally the government gives you $7,000 rebates (not sure if this amount has been reduced?) and you would still have to fork out the difference.
All the prices you see advertised for solar systems are "after rebate" - you pay the installer that money and get nothing back.
So where does the money go? the installer just pockets it? how do I know I am not getting ripped off with the installers prices as the rebate may cover all his costs plus a decent profit!
Terrible when businesses make a profit…
They will probably give you an itemised bill where the costs are broken down, and the rebate is definitely not enough to cover the entire cost of the system, but yes they keep it.
@EVL:
I said in my post "the rebate may cover all his costs plus a decent profit!"
I am not against business making profit but there is a difference between profit and greed!Coxymia clarified below that the rebate is not enough so thanks for the clarification.
It sounds pretty good for those who want solar but aren't prepared to pay the upfront costs of getting solar panels. Essentially lend your roof to them for you to get cheaper energy bills, and do your bit for the environment.
From what I've heard about these types of schemes, they are good for the environment and perhaps a little cheaper than getting all your power off the grid as you normally would, but I believe it to be far more cost effective to save up and install your own solar. Not everyone can afford to do that though.
Depends on how much power you use from solar. How much do you save vs how long you have it before you replace it.
For example, if you save $200 a year from getting Origin to do it, but a system outright costs $6K then it would take you 30 years to spend that $6K (albeit that doesn't factor in inflation but just as an illustration). Would a solar panel system last 30 years? or even 20 years?
Origin on the other hand are profiting from on selling the power you generate when you're not at home.
Found very interesting comment in Terms and Conditions
"It’s important to understand that Solar as a Service is best suited to households that consume a significant part of their electricity during the day. This is because the solar energy is not stored for later. If the system generates solar energy but you don’t use it, that energy will be fed into the grid."But you won't be paid for it while using Origin's "Service", they pay you for the power you put back into the grid if you own your own solar panels.
I thought most states stopped doing that?
I think you're talking about the "Solar Bonus Scheme" a government subsidised feed in tariff.
Non-gov feed in tariffs indeed exist: http://www.originenergy.com.au/for-home/solar/about-solar/fe…
This is very much how solar works anyhow…
more a forum item as it is always free.
you sign up for 7-10 year contract and pay a smaller amount than the normal rate.
It isnt really a normal solar install that you get some "free" power.
I cant see anywhere what the low rate is, does anyone know.They are simply leasing your roof space. The solar panels do not belong to you. The "lease" income you receive is in the form of a cheaper electricity rate (than what you're currently paying for electricity). Gentailers are already doing something similar at a commercial scale with warehouses / factories / commercial buildings with large roof spaces.
"This is important as you will pay for the energy generated by the system, whether you use this or not."
This is the potential dealbreaker for households with minimal usage during the day, as there's no storage system. You essentially pay Origin for every unit of energy the panels generate, regardless of whether you actually use this energy, so you'd want this system to be under-specced for your daytime needs.Note that you're not actually switching retailers. You still maintain your current agreement with your existing retailer, so any additional energy required will be purchased from your current retailer. For example, during the night, all your energy is consumed from the grid, and this energy is being sold to you by your retailer. During the day, if specced right, the solar panels will supply most of your energy needs for which you pay a rate to Origin - this should be cheaper than your current rate with your current retailer.
It can be a little confusing as Origin is also a generator / retailer, but in this instance, they are purely after your roof space and in exchange, they are selling you power at a rate lower than whatever your retailer is charging you. This may not benefit everyone so keep this in mind.
TL;DR
1. Origin want your roof space to install THEIR solar panels on.
2a. In exchange, they SELL you power at a cheaper rate than your current retailer.
2b. You HAVE to buy ALL of the power generated by the solar panels on your roof, regardless of what you're actually consuming.
3. You still maintain your contract with your current retailer to provide energy when the solar panels do not.How about covering the panels when not in use if its possible to do so easily just to enjoy a cheaper bill?
probably not very practical, or worth it. You can get batteries and set up a system to store power, there are videos on youtube
is that illegal?
2b sounds a little odd. It'd make a lot more sense to feed it back into the grid.
Yes it gets fed back into the grid, which you pay for as well. You'd be better off hooking up some old golf buggy batteries to charge up instead…
2b. You HAVE to buy ALL of the power generated by the solar panels on your roof, regardless of what you're actually consuming.
I'm not sure that this is the case, (the wording is confusing) cause later it says "the solar panels will supply most of your energy needs for which you pay a rate to Origin", which implies, more logically, that you only pay Origin for the Solar power that you use.
If the former, than no deal, if the latter then possibly worth it if the rate is sufficiently low and you can't afford the upfront cost.
"It’s important to understand that Solar as a Service is best suited to households that consume a significant part of their electricity during the day. This is because the solar energy is not stored for later. If the system generates solar energy but you don’t use it, that energy will be fed into the grid."
Need to find out what the rate is, for sure.
I think it makes sense that you would have to buy all the power generated. Either you are using some or all of it during generation (sunny) hours or it is being fed back to the grid where you should be receiving a credit from your contracted electricity supplier. Whether it is a good deal or not would depend on the rates the electricity company pays for feed-in and what the panel owners discounted electricity rate is.
Good summary. To clarify:
- The solar panels don't and won't ever belong to the home-owner under this agreement.
- The only potential savings from this scheme are limited to the difference between your normal retail electricity price, and the discounted rate offered by Origin as a "lease" payment, during daylight (solar generation) hours.
- If your electricity consumption is less than the solar panels' output, you will pay for electricity you don't use.
It's hard to know if this is a good deal or not, without seeing what sort of discount they offer to consumers. Apparently they will provide an offer customised to the applicant, and the variables associated with their usage, roof space etc.
But I can see how it might suit people who:
a) Don't have the financial capability to buy their own solar system + install as an up-front cost; and
b) Use a lot of electricity during the day.If you have to "buy" the power that is generated no matter whether you use it or it's sold into the grid, it's outright not a deal!
It's completely illogical that Origin could charge you for electricity that they sell to someone else, but that's what it appears to say.
Through Winter you might be better off, but through summer you'd need to be growing a crop to use all the power generated through the day.Yes - the rate you pay Origin needs to be confirmed to determine if this is a deal or not.
2b. seems extreme, are you sure?
Positively sure; excerpt from Origin's website:
"It’s important to understand that Solar as a Service is best suited to households that consume a significant part of their electricity during the day. This is because the solar energy is not stored for later. If the system generates solar energy but you don’t use it, that energy will be fed into the grid."
That isn't saying all electricity the panels generate must be paid for… BUT THIS IS:
"Solar as a Service is ideal for customers who have suitable roofs and are seeking to access the benefits of solar without the burden of having to invest in the system and the cost of maintaining it. In general, Solar as a Service will suit households who consume a significant part of the solar energy generated. This is important as you will pay for the energy generated by the system, whether you use this or not. Typically this means a household where there might be someone at home during the day or have a high load (like a pool pump) running in daylight hours.
Our solar specialists can help you determine if Solar as a Service is an option for you."
Errr, yes… I had previously quoted that (see above - 3h 20m before you did) but you asked if I was sure, so I thought I'd quote a different section of text….
@fishybone: No… you quoted THIS:
"Positively sure; excerpt from Origin's website:
"It’s important to understand that Solar as a Service is best suited to households that consume a significant part of their electricity during the day. This is because the solar energy is not stored for later. If the system generates solar energy but you don’t use it, that energy will be fed into the grid.""
It doesn't say anything about having to purchase all of the energy produced, or if it does PLEASE HIGHLIGHT IT. Honestly, the ignorance.
Why don't you do a search for the text "you will pay for the energy generated" and see when I posted that. Or you could search for "TL;DR".
Honestly, the stupidity.
@fishybone: You said it and provided a quote that didn't provide any evidence of what you said, instead you provided and posted everywhere, the quote I just quoted, which DOESN'T PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE of what you're saying. I have provided one that does. Which makes me the worst person on earth. My goodness, what is WRONG with you.
@woolfenstein:
If you had done a text search, you would note that I had quoted "… you will pay for the energy generated.. " 23 hours 49 min ago, which coincidentally, is the root comment you responded to, questioning my summary and saying that 2b seems extreme and if I'm sure.@fishybone: Then why are you spewing the other, unrelated quote EVERYWHERE. It's obviously making people overlook your original post.
@woolfenstein:
My inaugural comment on this thread had already quoted the "… you will pay for the energy generated.. " text, and I had quoted the "unrelated quote" twice for clarification and justification.I am sorry I assumed everyone could read. It won't happen again.
What a ridiculous offer…
After the contract finishes, you have to pay them if you don't want to continue with this product ?????
… yes, for the equipment. Makes sense.
Makes sense.
No it doesn't. They should just take the equipment back, like anything else at the end of a leasing contract….
Yes, that's if you want to buy the solar panels off them. If not, you pay them to take it off your roof, which is rubbish. Wind farm developers pay for decommissioning costs at the end of life of wind turbines when they're leasing land off farmers.
"End the agreement and have us remove the system (charges apply)"
Or pay them if you don't want their equipment as well.
They have over engineered it too much
Simplest and as a Service offer should beWe install solar panel on ur roof
We install electricity storing equipment
We will supply electricity to u
U pay origin discounted electricity rate
It is not in their interest to install electricity storing equipment, as then they couldn't charge you for the power you use off the grid.
I sell solar power and honestly you are better off getting a loan and paying it off as a weekly expense because you own the system.
These options are good until you do the calculations and realise they are just using you for your roof space trust me I knowThe interest rate on a loan, even a home loan, is very likely going to be higher than the effective APR on a solar install payback period.
Seeing you sell solar I will ask you.
It's horribly confusing knowing what's a deal or not.
Can you point me somewhere that shows what i should be looking for.
All sellers seem to be "buy from us and save millions" and sound as trust worthy as second hand car sellers.First step, that I regret not doing properly before getting a system installed, is to work out how much and when you use power.. and subsequently how much power use you can shift to be during solar production times (likely to be 11am-4pm, dependent on the orientation of your roof) For example running your Washing and dishwasher on on timer so that it runs during the day.
Second step is to go to http://PVOutput.org and find some systems that are in a similar region and have similar orientations to your roof.
Then you can see what sort of numbers they generate.Then work out how much that power costs you per year and therefore how much you can "save".. just divide the system cost by the saving and you have your payback period (ignoring Interest - add 2 years to cover that if necessary)
The feed-in tariff is so low as to be negligible, depending on your system size, it might add up to $200 over a year. Solar is all about what you can save by using the power you generate.Thanks Scuba.
If you want the best financial outcome from a solar system, ignore this 'offer' and borrow the capital to install a system that you will eventually own on your roof. You can do this at NO net increase in household outgoings so read on.
Since new contracts at the high feed in tariffs were eliminated by the States, the installed cost of a reasonable quality 5Kw system has dropped from north of $6K to south of $4K. At that price and with the current lifetime low interest rates you can cobble together sufficient cash quarterly through
a) the money you save off your bill by using your own solar generated electricity and
b) the rebates you generate from your feed-in to the grid of solar electricity you generate in excess of your usageto pay off your system.
Here's an example of what I mean.
Capital cost of installed 5Kw system $4K, all borrowed.
Repaid at 5% pa interest over 5 years (you may be able to get even cheaper money in today's market!)
So amount to repay $5K (worst case) or per quarter over five years is $250 per quarter, after which you will OWN the system.Take a typical household that uses say 1000 Kwh prime, 1500 Kwh non prime and 1000 Kwh off peak per quarter (light use air con, off peak hot water and pool).
The 5Kw solar system will generate an AVERAGE of approx. 1875 prime Kwh per quarter (NOT a guess, this is exactly what my 5Kw has just done over two years!!)
So you will use 1000 Kw of that and feed the rest to the grid at 8 cents per Kwh (it may be possible to negotiate a higher feed in tariff).
Now the math.
You are still going to pay for your 1500 non prime Kwh at say 22 cents per Kwh and 1000 off peak Kwh at say 12 cents per Kwh plus a 'service charge' of perhaps $50 a quarter. These costs are on BOTH sides of the 'before' and 'after' equation and can be ignored.At the same time you are going to save 1000 x 22 cents for the grid use you avoid by consuming your own solar.
So total bill saving $220 per quarter (1000 x 22 cents), earned feed in rebates $70 (875 x 8 cents), total quarterly cash positive $290.
So you have enough money to make the quarterly payment on your solar system and even have a small surplus!!
Note that prime electricity use above the average figures I've used will actually improve the financial return by increasing the bill avoidance dollar figure. There are strategies to move grid use from non prime to prime.
Of course the real financial benefit will accrue in five years after your system is paid off.
NOTE: The author has nothing whatsoever to do with either the electricity or solar industries, beyond being an enthusiastic solar system owner.
This is great. I already wanted solar. And now I want it more.
I have solar in almost ideal conditions and the figures in that post are a bit optimistic.
Unfortunately I haven't had my system for a full year which would make the math nice and easy to work out, but between September and April (so all of summer) I've only used 700 kw/h per quarter of my solar output.
Feeding energy into the grid for 8c/unit as opposed to using it for a "saving" of 22c/unit is what really makes or breaks the financial benefit.
Hmm. Interesting. Does it work that one could get a smaller solar system for cheaper? Or is that not practicable/don't possess enough psychic ability?
All the numbers in my post are based on my personal experience, that is real and actual over two years. If anything a little below optimum because 50% of my array faces WWSW because of roof site limitations. However. I am in SEQ which tends to compensate due to longer average daylight hours.
Because the inverter is proportionately a higher part of the cost in a smaller system the numbers will be less attractive and you may not be able to cover the repayment cost with avoidance/rebates.
is this SPAM?
The more I think about it, the less of a deal this sounds. This really is for the cash-poor folk who either use a lot of energy during the day or are enviro-mentals (I meant that as a noun, in case you were wondering). It makes MUCH more sense to get your own system either outright or financed. Thinking of what could go wrong -
- What if a hail or lightning storm hits? Are the panels insured under Origin's asset management system, or do you pick up the tab?
- Do you have to ensure that your roof is properly maintained - are you responsible for any damage caused to the panels due to the structural integrity (or lack thereof) of your roof?
- What if possums attack?
- Do you need to inform your home insurer and will it affect your premiums?
This can't be considered a deal unless the question of HOW MUCH YOU PAY is answered! (Not to mention all the other questionable aspects of it). The concept is fine, and thanks to OP for posting but…. forums please until more details are known.
People, before you sign any contracts with ANY solar installation company, ask the question about the scheme or system on Whirlpool at http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143
There are several people there that can help.
Just be careful. There are may scams and there is a lot of misinformation around in the solar game.
A lot of the figures quoted above only apply in certain areas.
On a whim I contacted AGL who offer a similar kind of deal to ask the same questions. Basically, with AGL's equivalent plan, if you go onto this "free" plan you're obligated to buy all of the "minimum agreed amount" of energy produced which is probably a rough estimate of the potential of your panels, whether you use it or not.
You only get the feed-in for any amount that you don't use in generated in excess of this amount.
Suffice to say, the deal sucks.
Lol so sure the system is 'free' but you have to pay for free energy? Umm what?!
And what happens when the house sells, do they take the panels/system if the new owner doesn't sign a contract too?
Yeah nah.