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HP G8 G1610T Microserver Computer $269 + Shipping @ Shopping Express

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HP G8 G1610T Microserver Computer $269 + Shipping @ Shopping Express
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Store RepShoppingExpress on 27/07/2015 - 10:45 shoppingexpress.com.au (5293 clicks)
Last edited 27/07/2015 - 16:02 by 2 other users
OZB-EPIC-MICROSERVER

In this past 1 month, i've been receiving many queries to bring the G8 Microserver "Dream Price" $269 back. It's a very difficult price for us to repeat but ozbargain's recent great support for ShoppingExpress has convinced us to do it 1 more time. 200 units will be up for sale at $269 + Shipping, i've also include the compatible Kingston 8GB Ram on sale at $99 + Shipping.

To enjoy the prices below, please use coupon code: OZB-EPIC-MICROSERVER at checkout

Update 27-7-15 4:01PM AEST
Kingston RAM sold out, more of them on the way, earliest dispatch is next week, so anyone that want the microserver earlier, please make your purchase on seperate order with the ram, thank you.

All stocks are limited, with limited quantity per customer.
Shipping starts $8.95 and averages $12 Australia Wide.
No Grey Imports, All Genuine & carries Australia's Manufacturer Warranty.

Computing HP Microserver NAS Server

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closed Comments

  • afseale on 27/07/2015 - 18:34

    Hello
    Any one in Perth upgrading?

    I'll buy your N40l or N54l.

    Please let me know via pm.

    Cheers
    Andrew

  • NeggerOfDeals on 27/07/2015 - 18:36

    Hey Rep! I hope this doesn't sell out while I await your reply. Would this be an appropriate server for entry-level game server hosting? Thanks!

  • ra303 on 27/07/2015 - 18:42

    Thanx, Ordered.

  • ra303 on 27/07/2015 - 18:53

    can anyone recommend a multiport nic card ?

  • merill on 27/07/2015 - 19:11

    This will be my first home servers. I'm planning on running a couple of WordPress sites in addition to Plex. Would this work? Also are all hard drives compatible? Are there any good deals from ShoppingExpress for the hard drive that would go with this? Tx
    PS: I have a Seagate 2TB desktop hard drive I bought some time ago would that work with this?

    PS: Will a crucial SSD work with this?

  • ghostknife on 27/07/2015 - 19:45

    Anyone know if you can use the internal microSD slot to boot/install OS on?

    • j03 on 27/07/2015 - 19:52

      yes u can. I am booting vmware from it.

      • ghostknife on 27/07/2015 - 20:11

        Ok, thanks. Should I install WHS on a 128Gb card? I've got an N40L with 4 storage drives and an old laptop drive for the OS on the extra sata port, so I'd like to keep all the storage drives and not have to use one for the OS.

        • XeKToReX on 28/07/2015 - 00:02

          I wouldn't run Windows from an SD Card at all.

          If anything, you might get away with a very good USB stick but that would be it.

          You can use a Molex Y adapter to power a 2.5" drive in the optical bay at the top if you want.

        • ruddj on 28/07/2015 - 00:11
          +1

          @j03: It does. Directly under the CD drive space is a molex adaptor. If you connect a Y splitter cable to it and then a Molex to Sata power supply you can use it to power a drive (that is how I power my SDD drive for OS)

        • j03 on 28/07/2015 - 00:17

          @ruddj:
          another oopsy.. I forgot about that.. yes there is a molex

        • drazman2000 on 28/07/2015 - 14:29

          @ruddj:
          Curious question, where did you mount your SSD? Did you replace the ODD or did you mount it inside the case by buying a bracket?

        • ruddj on 28/07/2015 - 15:08

          @drazman2000: By default it does not come with an ODD, so I just placed it in ODD bay. At the moment it is loose, but it is still fairly secure under the ODD brackets. If I end up needing to move it regularly I was going to stick it in bay with some velcro.

        • drazman2000 on 28/07/2015 - 15:42

          @ruddj:
          Cool! Thanks. Are you able to let me know exactly which cables I need? Sorry am new to all this. I tried searching y splitter in Google but it comes up with so many. So do I need 2 items molex to sata adapter and y splitter? If you can link me up that would be great.

        • ruddj on 28/07/2015 - 15:58

          @drazman2000:
          I bought the following:
          Molex Splitter (e.g. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/H-Quality-4-Pin-IDE-1-to-2-Molex-… )
          Molex to Sata power cable (you can use either a splitter or straight 1 to 1, http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/4-Pin-IDE-Molex-to-2-SATA-Power-C… )
          SATA data Cable (I found flat ends rather than angles worked best)

          Check what cables came with your PC as often Motherboards & PSUs come with extra cables. Most can be purchased from local computer store, just a matter if they have stock, otherwise eBay.

          You use the splitter on the Molex connect under ODD bay, so you disconnect plugin splitter and then reconnect the old plug. From other end of splitter you attach the Molex -> Sata power cable.
          From the ODD port on motherboard you attach the SATA data cable and run it through the chassis up to ODD bay for SDD.

        • drazman2000 on 28/07/2015 - 16:31

          @ruddj:
          great thanks sounds simple enough! thanks for the links also

        • ruddj on 28/07/2015 - 16:41

          @drazman2000: The links are mainly to give you an idea of what to get. If you do want to order the cables online you should be able to find a seller that does all the cables to reduce shipping.

        • drazman2000 on 28/07/2015 - 17:28

          @ruddj:
          nice thanks, any specific drive you recommend was just going to get sandisk plus 120gb? Also are you booting in AHCI or Raid 0 or legacy mode>

        • ruddj on 28/07/2015 - 17:51
          +1

          @drazman2000: Any SSD should do, I used a Crucial BX100 250GB SSD that was on special during the EoFY sale.
          I am using AHCI, but be aware that if you have 4 HDDs installed in bays it will not boot up off Sata5 (ODD) port.
          I needed to install to SSD on SATA5 and then insert a spare MicroSD card on slot on motherboard and install the Windows boot loader onto it. This then boots to the SSD.

          See Booting from the ODD Bay section on:
          http://homeservershow.com/forums/index.php?/topic/5639-proli…

        • [Deactivated] on 28/07/2015 - 18:19

          @ruddj: hi I would STRONGLY recommend NOT to use Molex splitters, especially eBay ones, they are notorious in the field for being extremely low quality killing drives and causing short circuits and even small fires. I would Google it before doing it. See if there is another way and at least use high quality splitters from a reliable brand/source if you really have to

        • ruddj on 28/07/2015 - 18:22

          @The Land of Smeg: I actually already had the splitter from something I'd previously bought. I bought my MOLEX to Sata power cable from MSY.

        • drazman2000 on 28/07/2015 - 18:35

          @ruddj:
          I will most likely get from MSY also. Thanks for all the help!

        • drazman2000 on 28/07/2015 - 18:42

          @ruddj:
          Sorry one more question can I just get molex to sata or does it need to split into 2 sata power?

        • ruddj on 28/07/2015 - 18:47

          @drazman2000: Single Molex to Sata is fine. Main thing is also having a Molex splitter so the molex cable is still connected after you add your device.

          The best cable would be a Molex Male to 1 Molex Female and 1 Sata Power, but I have never seen one of these, so you make your own with the components.

        • ruddj on 30/07/2015 - 22:32

          @drazman2000: That cable would be perfect. Wish I'd seen it before buying one at MSY.

        • [Deactivated] on 02/09/2015 - 22:18

          @ruddj

          Oh i see what you mean - you did say "Directly under the CD drive space is a molex adaptor".

          I thought i was up for one of these.

  • dazie86 on 27/07/2015 - 20:26

    hey I am getting the following error when i try to order the RAM in a separate order or when I try to order a second G8
    Special Discount 'special arrangement' from Shopping Express (OZB-EPIC-MICROSERVER) has already been used. Your order will be processed without this discount.

    • Store RepShoppingExpress @ Shopping Express on 27/07/2015 - 20:31

      please try again, it should work now

      • dazie86 on 27/07/2015 - 20:58
        +1

        thanks it worked

        • garethb on 31/07/2015 - 08:34

          Hey mate, would you sell the included 2gb memory?

  • superbadz on 27/07/2015 - 21:22

    Mr seller can I use the coupon on the matching Hp PS1810 switch to get 20% discount?

    • Store RepShoppingExpress @ Shopping Express on 27/07/2015 - 21:23

      Hi superbadz,

      Coupon code is for the ram & microserver only

      cheers
      SE

  • windrc on 27/07/2015 - 22:12

    thanks OP

  • karazy on 27/07/2015 - 22:29

    Hi Rep,

    I have added the server and 2 x Kingston 8GB DDR3 1600Mhz ECC and then entered the code on the checkout page.

    The Ram is showing as $109 and not $99. What have I done wrong?

    • am274 on 27/07/2015 - 22:32
      +1

      you should have got 120 discount at the bottom?

    • karazy on 27/07/2015 - 22:32

      Sorry ignore that.

      The Total discount adds up correctly.

      I expected each line item to have the discount applied.
      But there is a total discount at the end.

      • garethb on 31/07/2015 - 08:34

        Hey mate, would you sell the included 2gb memory?

  • am274 on 27/07/2015 - 22:30

    purchased with 8gb ram, few days into all the tutorials to set it up for best use, until some decent hard drive deals come up.

    • garethb on 31/07/2015 - 08:35

      Hey mate, would you sell the included 2gb memory?

  • karazy on 27/07/2015 - 23:10

    Can anybody recommend what HDD to get with this server at a good price?

    I want to put VMware VShpere esxi 6.0 on it as the host and create the following guests.
    * Windows 10 and use it seedbox.
    * Ubunutu and use as a PHP/MySQL Server
    * Maybe some type of NAS or Time capsule for On Site backups.

  • FabMan on 27/07/2015 - 23:15
    +1

    <strike> Hello all, anyone care to help me?

    Not owned one of these before, I use an old Shuttle PC under the TV that has an external HDD and it is failing on me.

    • Are these suitable for also using underneath the TV as a media player while still functioning as a MicroServer for remote access?

    • Is the noise issue with these that bad or been fixed?

    • Are there alternative solutions to this MicroServer or MicroServers in general?

    Thanks, I am looking into these questions online as well. </strike>

    Edit

    Sod it, I panicked and bought it. I'll figure out later if it was a good idea.

    Edit 2

    Sod HTML tags

    • [Deactivated] on 28/07/2015 - 22:28
      +1

      Good job, buy now ask question later :-) true OzBargainer

      I'm not sure about the noise question but I can tell you that the graphics are going to be quite poor. The GPU is integrated on the motherboard and is barely powerful enough just to display a 2D GUI, it only has 8MB VRAM and the maximum resolution is 1920x1080 with only 16bpp colour (instead of 32bpp) as an indication of how poor this is.

      You no doubt would need to add a Graphics Card for multimedia use that has some kind of hardware decode functionality.

      Have a look at this:
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_PureVideo or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder
      and work out what graphics card would support the kind of multimedia decoding you are looking for.

      For example: To playback 4k Videos, look for A feature level that supports 4K. Nvidia VP5 feature level supports 4K, which is present in a Geforce GT 610, which is $36 from MSY.

      • FabMan on 28/07/2015 - 22:46

        Thank you for this, I appreciate it.

        I normally prefer AMD to support the smaller company, but NVIDIA cards use up so much less power I have to choose them in this case. Which is fine by me.

        • [Deactivated] on 28/07/2015 - 22:55
          +1

          Also I just found this review about using Microserver Gen8 as a Multimedia PC, they cover the noise aspect and also point out that there is also no Sound card included. I'm pretty sure that GeForce/Radeon include an onboard Sound Card that outputs audio over HDMI.

          http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1377-page8.html

          I would love to go with an AMD CPU / Radeon build myself but unfortunately AMD is so far behind the 8-ball in features, performance, energy efficiency and price in both CPU & GPU markets at the moment that it is a difficult sell. I really hope they come back swinging again some day soon like they did with Athlon XP and Athlon 64. Intel's put a tonne of money into their tick-tock strategy that it's unlikely they will ever catch up on x86 CPUs again. Their new Radeons have a chance if they can cut the price below Nvidia for equivalent performance, abandon their rebrand policy, and use the same GPU core across the entire range like Nvidia almost do. Personally I think that they should carve a niche by bringing desktop CPU/GPU performance to ARM while Intel are backing x86, but I'm not their CEO.

        • Shonky on 28/07/2015 - 23:00

          I would hardly call AMD a small company. Lower valued for sure, higher revenues, similar gross profits, more employees.

        • FabMan on 28/07/2015 - 23:04

          @Shonky:

          I don't think of them as small, just smaller. Keep the competition thriving!

        • FabMan on 28/07/2015 - 23:05

          @The Land of Smeg:

          I wonder if I am spending on a GPU if I shouldn't upgrade the CPU that includes a better in built graphics card? I'll look into it. I know those integrated Intel GPUs aren't great, but they could still be good enough… Perhaps. Then again, sound…

        • [Deactivated] on 28/07/2015 - 23:14
          +1

          @FabMan: Pointless to upgrade the CPU for better integrated graphics because even though the CPU already has integrated graphics, the chipset (C204) completely ignores the integrated graphics. If the chipset didn't do this (i.e. HP had used C206 instead of C204) then the graphics wouldn't be a problem.

          HP probably didn't consider integrated graphics to be "server level" enough to bother giving us both options by using C206 instead. That's the way it is. At least a dedicated GPU can also handle sound at the same time rather than needing a USB sound card.

        • FabMan on 28/07/2015 - 23:26

          @The Land of Smeg:

          If it doesn't require a PCI-e 6 pin connector, I wonder if any card would work as the maximum it can draw is 75W through the PCI-e. Not a gaming machine of course, just curious.

          The NVIDIA 610 seems like a great choice considering functionality and price, so thanks again for that.

          I actually have a 5770 inside my Shuttle PC, I think I might try to underclock and undervolt even more than it is to get it to work. An experiment.

        • [Deactivated] on 28/07/2015 - 23:44
          +1

          @FabMan: I'm just looking through the options, I think GT 610 is pretty good (off the top of my head I used one not too long ago to bring 4k playback to an old PC) there is also GT 720 which is only a little bit more expensive but brings hardware video encoding to the table (not just decoding). Not sure if plan to purely playback existing formats or not, but if you want to convert videos to different formats or stream from your PC this might be for you. Not super important I'm sure the the Celeron G1610T can handle it by itself anyway. G1610T is actually pretty fast despite the Celeron name.

          There are PSU calculators online you a]can Google for with up to date hardware entries. Gen8 has a 150W PSU I believe so if you add all the desired parts (CPU, RAM, HDD, Graphics, etc.) see if it fits within 150W

        • [Deactivated] on 28/07/2015 - 23:58
          +1

          Also look out because Gen8 is half-height PCIe slot, make sure Graphics card is not too tall. G1610T is very efficient also so not likely that you will go over the PSU output unless you also upgraded the CPU like I'm doing :-).

        • FabMan on 29/07/2015 - 00:11

          @The Land of Smeg:

          I just looked up the QuickSpecs and saw it is half height PCI-e. Also looking on NVIDIAs website they have a few options that would work with a 150W PSU, even a 2GB variation on the 730 capable of 4K display, efficient. Though a 610 seems like more than enough and probably the one I'll get.

          Upgrading the CPU, what are you considering?

        • [Deactivated] on 29/07/2015 - 01:06
          +1

          @FabMan: I'd be careful with 730 because there are 3 variants of it and 1 of them is actually a GF108 core which is a rebranded GT 4xx series and NOT 4K capable. Got to be super careful with those specs to make sure it lines up with a GK208 core (same as a 720 which is always GK208).

          I already have a Xeon E3-1230v2 on order. cheapest of all the 4 cores / 8 threads line, the more expensive ones only have a tiny bit more GHz. I'm going go be virtualising pretty heavily. Also I got the 2x8GB ECC Unbuffered RAM. I read that others have put this CPU in no problem with power or heat but it doesn't leave much headroom, so I'll pass on a GPU as I don't really need it, just a bit concerned to get enough power to 4x drives. Looking hacking on a second PSU if I need to, not quite sure what I'm going to do yet.

          I'm getting pretty excited about it in case you can't tell.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/07/2015 - 02:16
          +1

          I'll probably go with an SSD because less power hungry and just use USB hard drives with their own power supply for storage as HDDs are slow anyway.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/07/2015 - 12:51
          +1

          @FabMan: Thanks for that, it has put me back on the right track

    • scynaz on 29/07/2015 - 22:47
      +1

      It's a server, not really suitable for media player use. One of those NUCs that keep going on sale would be a much better idea. Especially if I can score a cheap iLO advanced license, I will be running this without a mouse keyboard or display attached - that is the point with these.

      Sounds like you're looking at the wrong type of solution.

      You're making the classic ozbargain mistake of getting a solution that you don't have a problem for :-)

      This server is great as a storage server, but not even ideal for that, one of the Synology NAS solutions are probably better and more 'plug and play'.

      What this server is is an excellent little home lab. Run a home web server, virtual machines, software development, host your own code repository.

      This is really enterprise grade hardware for rock bottom pricing. And the upgrade possibilities are what make it special.

      You can put in a Xeon E3-1265LV2, which is a beast of a CPU.

      This is a server, in the proper sense. If you've never wished you had a server to play with, this isn't for you.

      • [Deactivated] on 30/07/2015 - 00:39

        You say mistake and I say opportunity!

        But seriously, it's still not a bad machine for the price, even if it's only for use as a PC. It's Small Form Factor after all and it will beat the pants off a NUC which are horrendously underpowered.

      • FabMan on 30/07/2015 - 23:37

        Challenge accepted!

  • stonkered on 28/07/2015 - 07:46

    Hello OP, can we get a deal on the 4gb sticks of RAM, I only need 8gb but still want dual channel:

    http://www.shoppingexpress.com.au/buy/kingston-4gb-1600mhz-d…

    Pretty please? :) :P

  • DARK KHAOS on 28/07/2015 - 07:52

    Perfect time to upgrade the N36l. Thanks!

  • motion2082 on 28/07/2015 - 08:17
    +1

    Dont need it but so want one, N54 has served me well

  • IdBuyThat4aDollar on 28/07/2015 - 08:22

    So I been out of the PC building scene for a while…so apologies for the noob question.

    Does this only take ECC RAM? If not why is it recommended? I've never come across this when I built PC's in the past.

    • Karlos101 on 28/07/2015 - 09:10

      i believe its because it runs server hardware, its not actually considered a PC as such.

      the is a very low tech answer, someone else would be able to shed some more light.

    • XeKToReX on 28/07/2015 - 11:34
      +1

      Yes, only takes UNREGISTERED/UNBUFFERED ECC memory. I believe it is a limitation of the Intel C204 chipset used.

      • IdBuyThat4aDollar on 28/07/2015 - 11:38

        Cool I'll see how 2GB goes then as I'm only using this for plex and file sharing, but if I need more is this something I can get at MSY?

        • XeKToReX on 28/07/2015 - 11:46

          Hit me up via PM if you need another 2GB

        • [Deactivated] on 28/07/2015 - 21:54

          @XeKToReX: It looks like quite a few of us will try to be offloading our extra 2GB after our 2x8GB upgrade :)

        • garethb on 31/07/2015 - 08:36

          @XeKToReX: I'm interested in the 2gb ram :)

  • chutibuti on 28/07/2015 - 08:44

    Sold out???

    • IdBuyThat4aDollar on 28/07/2015 - 08:55

      I reckon I placed my order 10 mins before you posted this. It went through okay, and I got email confirmation. Although when I view the order online it says status "pick". Not sure what this means?

      • chutibuti on 28/07/2015 - 09:11

        Being here in OZB for several yrs still I haven't learn OZB theory. "Buy now think later. :)", was in the cart but had to hold till pass through the tunnel, & missed it..

  • chutibuti on 28/07/2015 - 08:47

    Sorry. We don't have enough 'HP ProLiant G1610T MicroServer NAS 712317-371 (712317-371)' in stock to fulfill your order: we have 0 in stock. Please change the qty on order in your shopping cart and click update. Then try to checkout again.

    • stonkered on 28/07/2015 - 09:05
      +1

      Arghhhhh!!! The wife approved it last night as well!

      • Karlos101 on 28/07/2015 - 09:07

        Arrgghhhh mine too!!!

        • stonkered on 28/07/2015 - 09:10

          OP take pity on us!

        • merill on 28/07/2015 - 10:11

          @stonkered: Add one more to the list who missed out :|

  • SgtGrumbles on 28/07/2015 - 09:11

    Gah! Spent so long deliberating on this, only to find that it won't show "out of stock" until you View Cart.

    I was hoping to setup a Plex box for someone to pass the 'wife test'. (her exact words were, "I'll give you my credit card details". Doesn't know what she's got herself into!). This was looking like a great alternative to ~Synology NAS that wouldn't have a problem with 1080p transcode if it comes up.

    Oh well, Rep, count me very interested in seeing this come up again! Thanks for the great deal anyway.

    • Master Haggler on 28/07/2015 - 09:19
      +2

      Ozbargain rule #1. Always buy then deliberate.

  • steve-rsa on 28/07/2015 - 10:04

    :( missed it.

  • Karlos101 on 28/07/2015 - 10:20

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HP-Micro-Server-MicroServer-G8-Ge…

    here is the next cheapest option for this fellah that i have found. $389 with free postage
    this one has an extra 2GB of RAM - totalling 4GB though

    EDIT:
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HP-Micro-Server-MicroServer-G8-Ge…

    2GB version for 379 with free postage.

    EDIT2:
    2GB for $369 with free postage
    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HP-ProLiant-MicroServer-Gen8-G161…

  • MynyMouqe on 28/07/2015 - 11:40
    +1

    Arrgh, was half way through check out when it bombed me out with out of stock - any chance of adding some more in Rep?

    • cloudie9 on 28/07/2015 - 12:12
      -2

      You snooze, you loose…

  • kuripot on 28/07/2015 - 12:41
    +1

    Hi Rep..

    allocate more stock for us please? Thanks

  • sengork on 28/07/2015 - 13:01

    More stock would be appreciated thanks op.

  • milo on 28/07/2015 - 13:11

    Would be great to get more stock for this deal please. Thanks OP!

  • ozbarg0in on 28/07/2015 - 13:25

    Rep, please put more stocks, damn I missed it :)

  • Karlos101 on 28/07/2015 - 13:47

    OP, please do round two of stocks!

  • robiji on 28/07/2015 - 15:23

    Well as an OzB noob I've learnt a valuable lesson.. Less deliberation, more BUY BUY BUY! Damn, I'd love to see this (or something similar) come back.

  • samlor on 28/07/2015 - 16:58

    Was undecided because I don't really "need" it so been watching/letting others buy but if rep puts on more stock then I'll likely give in & buy one too.

  • Shambler on 28/07/2015 - 17:21

    Rep,
    Can someone please contact me re Ticket ID: 37648

    Need it addressed urgently as the micro server is now going to the wrong address!!

    • chutibuti on 28/07/2015 - 17:55

      Hope it could be my address :)..

    • Store RepShoppingExpress @ Shopping Express on 29/07/2015 - 10:11

      Hi Shambler,

      Apologize for the late reply. Your order has been shipped out yesterday. There is a good chance Auspost will deliver correctly, and worse case if it comes back to us we will re-ship this one free of charge for you.

      For very urgent issues, please consider contact us at 02-83388899 if you cannot reach me via PM or the CS team.

      Regards
      SE

  • ozultimate on 28/07/2015 - 18:04

    I have been eying microserver's for past 2 years finally pulled the trigger yesterday.

    Planning to use as NAS/Net Surfing box.

    Parcel has been shipped :) excited.

  • 881jz on 28/07/2015 - 18:33

    missed the EOFYS deal and was annoyed (no funds). comes up again, i put it off for too long now out of stock.
    i think my credit card is grateful and get to avoid unpleasantness with the better half. spent around 2k on my first G8MS with raid card, cpu and 6 x drives.

  • chutibuti on 28/07/2015 - 19:58

    Where is the Rep??

    • stonkered on 28/07/2015 - 21:21

      Think it's done and dusted :(

  • Store RepShoppingExpress @ Shopping Express on 29/07/2015 - 10:51
    +4

    Thanks everyone for the massive support.

    For those that miss out, we will try to arrange another Microserver deal in the coming months. Hopefully we can afford to do this price again, otherwise we will still offer the best price in Australia.

    To receive quicker notification, please use the "subscribe" button on this post - ozbargain will notify you when we post a deal.

    Kind Regards
    SE

    • helleon on 29/07/2015 - 23:14

      For ppl who purchased ram in same order, when it will be start to shipping?

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