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Voigtlander Color Skopar Lens Canon EOS [$107 Off + $50 StoreCredit, 48 Hrs] $598 Delivered @SOS

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Voigtlander Color Skopar Lens Canon EOS [$107 Off + $50 StoreCredit, 48 Hrs] $598 Delivered @SOS
Go to Deal
Store Repsellingoutsoon on 16/02/2016 - 14:58 sellingoutsoon.com.au (1071 clicks)
Last edited 18/02/2016 - 16:54 by 1 other user
OZB-EXCLUSIVE-$157-VALUE

Helpful Hint: Want our deals before they get OzBargained? Then please subscribe (make sure to click on the little subscribe button) so you can get in first when we do a great deal!

Hi fellow Ozbargainers :) as a special deal just for OzBargain, we would like to offer (UPDATE: NOW ONLY 1 LEFT!) of Voigtlander 28mm f/2.8 Color Skopar SL II Lens for Canon for just $588 + $9.90 tracked delivery sent within 24 hours AND as a special BONUS you'll also get a $50 store credit!

Our best deals sell out in a few hours, so be quick

Please share if you like it - thanks guys!

Deal Overview

  • Deal (must use coupon code) saves $107 + GET $50 STORE CREDIT! So you pay a total of just $588 plus $9.90 tracked delivery!

(See deal for full details and to save $107 + get an extra $50 store credit now)

Details

  • ONLY 1 LEFT — BONUS FREE UPGRADE TO EXPRESS SHIPPING! — is it yours??
  • Brand New
  • This lens gets excellent reviews and is the SLII-N version!
  • Official Australian Stock
  • Save over $100 off B&H's price (their Fedex delivery, see below for all their shipping options in detail)
  • Plus many extra benefits for free! (see below for details)

In addition, get:

  • Genuine Australian Stock — not a grey import!
  • Double the standard warranty
  • Local Australian warranty — not 1-year-back-to-another-country-warranty!
  • Bonus $50 store credit!
  • Total price $588 (using coupon code) saves $107 + GET $50 STORE CREDIT plus $9.90 tracked delivery
  • 48 HOUR DEAL
  • Valid until Thurs February 18, 2016 (unless sold out prior)
  • (OFFER EXTENDED: NOW ONLY 1 UNIT LEFT!)
  • Fast, tracked shipping to any Australian address.
  • sellingoutsoon.com.au reserves the right to change or end this promotion early, for any reason, with no prior notice. All sales final, no cancellations, no refunds, unless item tests faulty upon return, in accordance with Return Policy on the site, Australian consumer law and Fair Trading NSW
  • Deal ships from Sydney to Australian addresses only

Availability

Super-fast dispatch within 24 hours with online tracking. It is expected that at least 90% of correct addresses will arrive to most locations within the time indicated. Peak periods may add congestion to the postal system. See www.auspost.com.au for details. Any addresses rejected by Australia Post will incur a subsidised charge of $9.90 for redelivery, because the item will have to be posted again. See shipping for more information, thank you.

Comparative Pricing

To help with competitive pricing information, this is what we found (you'll need to add your choice of shipping to Australia) in $AU. Paypal conversion from US$ is 3.5% above prevailing wholesale rate. xe.com shows 017.71651 current at time of writing, which makes Paypal rate .75151:

B&H (USA import) $693.20 (including 5 business day shipping) or $659.07 (3 weeks, no insurance)

All of B&H shipping options to Australia for this item:
$16.30
DHL Global Mail 
Delivery in 10-15 Business Days
$36.51
DHL Express 
Delivery In 4-7 Business Days
$63.00
UPS Expedited Under $1000 AUD 
4-6 Business Days Delivery
$93.00
UPS Saver Under $1000 AUD 
3-5 Business Days Delivery
$42.20
FedEx International Priority 
3-5 Business Day Delivery
$53.75
Priority Mail International 
10-14 Days Delivery (Limited Tracking Available)
$56.25
Priority Mail Express International 
5-7 Days Delivery

DigitalRev (AU) $848.99 + shipping
Amazon (USA import, sold out)
Adorama (USA import, sold out)
Camera house (AU) (no stock)
Teds (AU) (no stock)
Michaels (AU) (no stock)
Camera Pro (AU) (no stock)
Cameras Direct (AU) (no stock)
Digital camera Warehouse (AU) — formerly Foto Riesel (no stock)
Georges (AU) $655 + shipping
Leederville (AU) $655 + shipping
sellingoutsoon.com.au was $695, now $588 with a BONUS $50 store credit! (using coupon code) for official Australian version, plus $9.90 tracked delivery, SAVE $107 and GET $50 STORE CREDIT!

Australian (official) stock is getting hard to find at a good price. Specialty retail varies in price, best alternative pricing is online as per above, with B&H selling their import stock for $50 more + delivery + you get an extra $50 store credit!

Yes, if you're wondering why we're selling this item, if you're used to our deals for PS4, Xbox One, Xbox 360, Nintendo Wii, PlayStation Vita, and the other things we're best known for, you can expect a widening of offerings from Selling Out Soon this year! Some exciting stuff is on the horizon: High-End Camera Gear, possibly Chromecast …Eneloop and even Lego are not out of the question! So please subscribe if you want to see what we're doing next… Thank you OzBargainers :)

Reviews:

  • Absolutely awesome review by the inimitable Ming Thein: " the manual focus action is nicely damped and perfectly weighted – they certainly got the feel right with this lens" and just look at his amazing photos….holy crap, he is awesome with this lens! (Review is for Nikon and Canon Mount, but this deal is for Canon mount only [perfect for EOS])

  • Steve Huff rocks too, but his review was for a Nikon mount (same product in every other way, of course)…."as for rendering and sharpness, it is excellent. The 28 2.8 is light, small and looks great on the camera. It is super easy to manually focus and because it is a wide-angle with an f/2.8 aperture, this makes it easier to nail focus than the 58 1.4. Either way…fantastic, especially for the money."

Overall Rating

B&H 4.9 out of 5 Stars (based on 7 user reviews)


PROS
* Rugged (7)

* Strong construction (7)

* Durable (5)

* Consistent output (4)

* Easily interchangeable (4)


CONS
* No Cons


BEST USES

* Landscape/scenery (7)

* Night photography (3)
 

See deal at sellingoutsoon.com.au for full overview

Thank you for allowing us to be a part of the Ozbargain community.

Electrical & Electronics Camera Camera Lens Canon Photography Voigtlander

Related Stores

SellingOutSoon
SellingOutSoon

closed Comments

  • zobragin on 16/02/2016 - 15:23

    Looks nice. Just note there is no AF for those who need it.

    • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 15:38
      +1

      Thanks :) yes it provides amazing results. Ming's review has some interesting points about focus and other stuff, a good read…and his photos are quite awesome with this lens too, he's our best advertisement!

    • zealmax on 16/02/2016 - 23:06

      Keep turning the focus ring while you have continuous shooting on. I wish they had these for Nikon.

  • bbyboy on 16/02/2016 - 15:30
    +1

    @rep chat popup is annoying, should get rid of it

    • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 15:39

      OK, will tell them. They're real people, in Australia too. Maybe you could PM me with what you think needs to change? Thank you for your input.

      • bbyboy on 16/02/2016 - 18:15

        the popup in-your-face chat with the annoying notification was bad but seems like its been changed now. notifications are only ok if i initiated the chat. i dont know how everyone else feels about it but i dont want someone coming up to me and asking if i want to talk

        • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 18:20

          Yes it's an interesting point, I think it really depends on your personality. That's one thing websites don't do well…assess people's personality! And what's too little and too much is highly subjective too. But Selling Out Soon has some good technology, the basic premise being not to hit people with the same thing twice. Not perfect, but we're working on it :)

  • Scaregdearimasu on 16/02/2016 - 15:33
    +1

    Wat. Camera lens from SOS what alternate universe did I land in?
    Anyway as far as I can tell (just a quick search) it looks like a good price for it. I'm not really a camera person though but I do know all thoses lenses are expensive. Just read the explanation in your post and it should be interesting to see what you branch out into in the future.

    • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 15:44
      +1

      Thanks :) if you know people with a Canon EOS who want professional results (to bring out the artist in you more than just a lens for people who want specs on paper) then please pass it along. There is nothing that makes you want to get out there and take rich, timeless photos than great glass (or for the uninitiated: an amazing lens). This is the difference between people with expensive cameras, and those photos you always go back to.

  • piggiepanda on 16/02/2016 - 15:39
    +2

    Wow… Camera lens?? O.o
    Interesting approach but… but… but… MORE GAME DEALS please… xD

    • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 15:41
      +1

      Haha, yes, we have some very cool buyers, some with refined tastes, and this is for them. More to come…

  • aim54x on 16/02/2016 - 15:47
    +4

    I have to point out that the Australian Distributor for Voigtlander is Mainline Photo, so I have my doubts that this is truly "Australian Stock". Mainline currently does not list this lens on their website as it is not in stock and Voigtlander lists Mainline Photo as the only Australian Distributor.

    I have no issues with imported stock, as long as it is labelled as such.

    EDIT: called Mainline and confirmed, they have sold on some stock this these guys!

    • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 16:13
      +6

      Well, at least now you know that we are telling the truth. If you have concerns about such things, maybe ask us first? Then we can tell you before you make a comment that turns out incorrect. It's cool though, we like everybody :) as long as they're sincere. Thanks for the "edit", appreciate your honesty. Buyers please note: we sell authentic stock only, every time. We have on occasion sold an import, but not a Voigtlander import. If we do an import, we will tell you first. These are important representations which may affect a buying decision, and we respect that. If we make a mistake (we didn't here) we will apologise and tell you. Providing the quality of service people truly deserve is standard practice, in the interest of decency and fairness.

      • aim54x on 16/02/2016 - 18:17
        +3

        Experience indicates that unscrupulous sellers will promise the moon (not saying you are one) hence the decision to check through a dealer that I know and have been a customer of in order to get to the bottom.

        I made my post on reaction but followed up to make sure, hence my edit.

        Thanks for the negative votes ozbargain, such a friendly community.

        • mickeyjuiceman on 17/02/2016 - 04:41

          What do you expect when you make posts "on reaction" before bothering to do any actual research?

    • ankor on 16/02/2016 - 21:21
      +1

      +1 from me for your edit and fact checking. Thanks for contributing to the community!

  • NeggerOfDeals on 16/02/2016 - 15:47
    +9

    Relevant.

    I love the effort you put into these deals.

    • titanus on 16/02/2016 - 21:55

      is that you in the photo rep?

      • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 17/02/2016 - 11:22

        Maybe.

  • pointless martyr on 16/02/2016 - 15:57

    Is it a camera game or a gaming camera?

    • blahoz on 16/02/2016 - 16:19
      +3

      its a camering gamera

  • GameChanger on 16/02/2016 - 16:28
    -2

    $600 lens some OzB's rolling in $$$

    • laser on 16/02/2016 - 16:46
      +6

      600 bucks is nothing for a lens - will barely get you out of consumer lens territory. I have spent the last decade kicking myself in frustration for missing out on the APO Lanthar Macro when it was available from CameraQuest for about 600-700 US. Atleast I got the 180 APO Lanthar. Voigtlander makes beautiful lenses that take phenomenal photos with buttery smooth bokeh.

      • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 16:50

        Well, I was waiting for someone to say it! It's still the truth if I say it, but so much better from you :) You couldn't be more right. What makes this Voigtlander deal so interesting imo, is that it is very close to consumer-grade pricing, as you correctly point out, but it's Warhol-worthy in terms of art. It's for people who believe in falling in love with amazing visuals — getting Champagne quality for craft-beer price! It's like the difference between having normal eyesight (meh) and superhero eyesight (yay!) …but with bokeh. There is something pure, organic and desirable about that.

        • GameChanger on 16/02/2016 - 17:04

          Will it make me more attractive? Then it be worth the money for me.

        • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 17:36
          +1

          @GameChanger: Haha, yes, particularly to people with their eyes closed :) Read the awesome review by Ming who is one heck of a photographer! Now, if you get into the part of the frame where the blur is, then you can become part of the Bokeh effect, and that makes everyone more attractive!

        • syousef on 16/02/2016 - 18:03

          @sellingoutsoon:

          Okay if you're going to shoot in low light I can understand why you'd want f/2.8…(would prefer the Canon 1.8 even then) but if you're going to shoot a buddhist monk at f/5.6 and 1/500th I doubt you're going to tell the difference between this lens and an 18-55STM after correcting distortion and enhancing contrast on both images.

        • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 18:04

          @syousef: Sounds technical! Anyone else have thoughts on this?

        • ankor on 16/02/2016 - 21:22

          @sellingoutsoon:
          Cheaper to just buy 6 rum and cokes?!

      • aim54x on 16/02/2016 - 18:21

        Shame there isn't a Nikon mount available for this deal. I've also been looking for the Apo Lanthar 90/3.5 and this Color Skopar 28/2.8.

        Happy owner of the:
        -Ultra Wide Heliar 12/5.6
        -Color Skopar 20/3.5
        -Color Skopar 35/2.5
        -Ultron 40/2
        -Nokton 58/1.4

        Still regretting selling my Nokton 50/1.5 and Heliar 75/1.8

    • mickeyjuiceman on 16/02/2016 - 18:15
      +2

      $600 for a good lens is SFA.

  • damfrog on 16/02/2016 - 17:36
    +2

    Anyone interested in this should consider the Canon 28mm f/1.8. It's around the same price from Ryda http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Canon-EF-28mm-F-1-8-USM-Wide-Angl….

    Pros: Autofocus, 1.3 stops wider max aperture
    Cons: Bigger, plastic, heavier, no hipster factor

    Autofocus is an important factor on DSLRs because the default focus screen on Canons only resolves to ~f/4. So if you're manually focusing through the viewfinder at f/2.8, the point of focus through the viewfinder will look the same as if you set it to f/4 and hit the dof preview button.

    • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 17:38

      Good point about autofocus. But this Voigtlander isn't a consumer-grade lens. Anyone who's used this particular Voigtlander lens care to elaborate to explain it better than me?

      • aim54x on 17/02/2016 - 15:25
        +1

        Haven't used this one, but the others I own are pretty damn good. They all produce images that have this distinctive look akin to Zeiss lenses, but not as pronounced.

        Modern lenses are sharp and well corrected but they seem clinical, the Voigltander lenses, like the Zeiss (minus the OTUS) and the older Leica lenses have this extra depth and feel.

    • GameChanger on 16/02/2016 - 17:43
      +1

      Since when is no hipster factor a con?

      • PlasticSpaceman on 16/02/2016 - 17:44
        +1

        when you're a hipster?

        • syousef on 16/02/2016 - 18:04
          -1

          I think you took a wrong turn. This is ozbargain, not ozhipster! ;-)

        • PlasticSpaceman on 16/02/2016 - 18:05
          +1

          @syousef:

          Oooh. Time to register another domain name…. ;-)

    • animal on 17/02/2016 - 09:40

      Another pro/con for the list:
      The bokeh on the Voigtlander will look a bit more natural (rounded instead of more pentagonal) since it has 9 aperture elements instead of 7 in the Canon. Though, the extra 1.3 stops will probably mean more bokeh on the Canon.

      I use an Olympus OMD EM1. Lots of people rave about the Olympus 75mm lens (which I don't have). It probably stands out above the other lenses because it has 9 aperture/diaphragm blades which produces more aethestically pleasing bokeh at the max aperture. All my Olympus lenses, even the 12-40mm PRO have 7 blades.

  • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 18:07

    Thank you OzBargainers :)

    For your awesome support!

    • Not many left now…
    • Who's going to own one of the last few?
  • fuzor on 16/02/2016 - 18:12
    +1

    Hi OP I would like to buy one for the Nikon mount. Do you have anything for Nikon? Thanks

    • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 18:14

      Possibly…. if we offered this one, which of you fellow OzBargainers would want it first?

      • fuzor on 16/02/2016 - 18:18

        Thats not a 28mm and its in the US…Are there any you can perhaps get for me from your supplier?

        • aim54x on 16/02/2016 - 18:22

          They are still available via Mainline but if these guys can get a better price….great lens that 40mm

        • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 19:06

          Hi @fuzor — yes, I do realise this :) Link is so you can see a possible alternative, which may become a deal, however we probably won't have enough stock left, so it might end up in our Secret Deals email (which goes to subscribers only — click the Secret Deals tab at right of screen on landing page of site to sign up.

          About the link: as you may know, B&H is the benchmark of all pricing worldwide for this type of gear. For us to sell on OzBargain, the price will be comparable or lower. Because this is OzBargain, we only provide information on the best possible deal. Most products do not fit the criteria. That's why we don't have the exact product for Nikon. Have a read of what we don't do which might explain a few things. But get on Secret Deals if you want the most exclusive price opportunities.

        • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 16/02/2016 - 19:08

          @aim54x: Yes, it's rather awesome. Mainline have no stock. Selling Out Soon focuses on deals that aren't everywhere. And if we get it right, aren't anywhere.

      • esq on 17/02/2016 - 18:04

        Hi rep i just logged in to say I would buy this. If you dont offer it soon I will buy it from someone else. Didn't even know this lens existed till just then.

  • cnut on 16/02/2016 - 19:50

    Someone please explain to me why I'd want this over the Canon 28mm f/1.8. Much better optics?

  • p1 ama on 16/02/2016 - 20:00
    +3

    There seems to be quite a number of people debating this lens over similar options such as the Canon 28/1.8 (Nikon also have a 28/1.8, for that matter). The difference is not large. To be honest, for most people I would recommend the Canon 28/1.8. Even for my own personal use, I would prefer the Canon 28/1.8. However, I shoot events, portraiture and weddings, for which fast AF lenses and large apertures are beneficial.

    The optical quality of the Canon 28/1.8 isn't bad, in fact it's rather good. The Nikon 28/1.8G is an excellent lens, better than the Canon. Both these lenses have a stop and a third aperture advantage over this 28/2.8, and at f/2.8, both the Canon and Nikon lenses should be able to match this lens in terms of resolution and sharpness.

    The difference is, however, that both Canon and Nikon lenses have higher element counts which detract away from the microcontrast of a lens. This is a very subjective thing which some people get or don't get (I honestly don't get it and I've been shooting for myself and others for some time). If you want to read more about this topic, I'd suggest a bloke by the name of Yannick Khong - look up his blog, he regularly writes about issues such as these. Ultimately, it depends on what you want. Are you the sort of person who would prefer to drive a Toyota (like me) or are you the sort of person who would prefer an old classic?

    If you're the Toyota person, get the Canon/Nikon 28/1.8 and it'll be super sharp, super reliable and it'll work very well for you. If you like to muck around with classics and it's something that tickles your fancy, go for this lens.

    • ankor on 16/02/2016 - 21:53
      +1

      You mean his test here, with two pictures of the same subject, one full facing, one in profile, and possibly with the whitebalance being subtly off due to the presence of the white pole?

      http://yannickkhong.com/blog/2016/2/12/extra-credits-applyin…

      Ok then.. I don't mind Yannick trying to reinterpret the ramblings of that Angry Photographer guy, but he needs to properly back up his tests ala the scientific method we used to learn about at the end of primary school/start of secondary.

      • p1 ama on 16/02/2016 - 22:51
        +1

        There's plenty more on his website, and I don't think it's just him reinterpreting Angry Photographer. To be honest, I don't see this whole 'microcontrast' thing, so I'm probably not the best person to comment, but some people see it and to them, it's worth something.

        It's like trying to explain the difference between headphones to a non-audiophile, or the difference between a BMW and a Toyota to a non-driver. It's very much as subtle as different wines, which you need to be seasoned with to appreciate.

        It boggles the mind, but photography isn't science. That's perhaps counter-intuitive, especially to me, as I have written papers and conducted studies. However, photography is not shooting test charts, it's producing great images and that can mean a wide variety of different things. This is why lenses such as the Canon 50/1.2L and 85/1.2L produce amazing images, yet do not score anywhere near as well as some other lenses.

        I owned the Canon 50/1.2L and whilst I didn't genuinely love that lens, I do know that it has merit and people do pay for that artistic look and rendering.

        • ankor on 17/02/2016 - 07:45

          I've read it and I understand it, I'm also not sure that I agree with it. However, maybe the proof is in the pudding. I have a sony 35mm f/1.8, but my favourite lens is an old carl zeiss jena flektogon 35mm f/2.4 due to its '3D pop'.

          The modern sony does appear a bit flatter and even a bit duller in comparison side by side. I'll have to get all geeky and test them side by side with the Yannick b&w tests myself now.

          The other thing is that I've looked at the cost of the 35mm Nikkor AI that Yannick champions so much, and in some instances it's going for nearly $800 on ebay. That's comparable to the cost of a modern zeiss prime second hand on the market. So in some instances the savings just aren't there. :(

        • syousef on 17/02/2016 - 08:15

          @ankor:

          Microcontrast? Do a bit of post processing!

          http://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3039339

        • p1 ama on 17/02/2016 - 10:35

          @ankor: I've never gotten it at all, but my photography style is admittedly very different. I prefer modern, sharper lenses over older more microcontrasty lenses. E.g. I prefer my Canon 50/1.8 STM over my Canon 50/1.2L. I prefer my Sigma 35/1.4 ART over the Canon 35/1.4L, so on and so forth. I also particularly dislike manual focus lenses with a passion. That said though, I genuinely respect people who can see the difference and if it works for you, then that's great.

        • p1 ama on 17/02/2016 - 10:35
          +2

          @syousef: That has nothing to do with it, why waste your time with DPR anyway, most people on there take pictures of nothing but brick walls and test charts.

        • ankor on 17/02/2016 - 14:18

          @paulsterio:

          Dpreview, biggest effin whine fest of all time. The ratio of skilled togs vs posers on whirlpool is significantly higher lol

        • ankor on 17/02/2016 - 14:25

          @paulsterio:

          Great for slower photography, very hard to use for candid shots due to lack of skill..

          I'll get there one day lol

        • syousef on 17/02/2016 - 18:13

          @paulsterio:

          The guys on DPR can be over the top, but I have picked up some good tips there too. Some have been the difference between good and bad photos. Use to be better than it is now, but still worth occasionally going there. I found that link via the web not searching DPR, but there are plenty more.

          The kit lenses these days are amazing used within their limitations. There are times when a prime or a more expensive zoom is going to make a difference but you'd be surprised how often that crappy kit lens or one that is a very slight step up will do as well as prime glass - sometimes to the point that it's hard to pic the difference even pixel peeping. There are good reasons to buy specialist lenses. You're better off working out what the speciality you want to focus on actually is before buying them though. I'd go for a wide or a macro over an expensive prime if you're looking to expand and play.

          The <$200 primes are however good value because they let you do low light cheaply. I tend to use them for wide field astrophotography on a tripod too. You can also reverse some of them them for macro in a pinch but don't expect stellar results. (I haven't bothered). And you can do some cool effects with shallow depth of field and aperture masks too - though to be honest I'd take my 70-300 and shoot that at minimum distance with a far background for a nice blurred effect rather than mess with the shallow DoF - but that's a personal preference. I'd love a 70-200 2.8 but I can't justify that kind of spend when I can get close with what I've got.

          Whether you want a prime is an advantage in low light over the kit lens depends a lot on whether your subject is moving. The primes don't tend to be image stabilized, so that can close the gap for your kit lens by 2-3 stops if your subject is still enough. But no amount of stabilization compensates for a moving subject.

        • syousef on 17/02/2016 - 18:25

          @paulsterio:

          I prefer modern, sharper lenses over older more microcontrasty lenses. E.g. I prefer my Canon 50/1.8 STM over my Canon 50/1.2L. I prefer my Sigma 35/1.4 ART over the Canon 35/1.4L, so on and so forth.

          I don't understand what the heck you're saying. Sharpness and micro-contrast are joined at the hip. Would you like to point me to a site or reference that gives a clear explanation of the difference between micro-contrast and sharpness?

          Here is what I came up with:
          https://luminous-landscape.com/understanding-lens-contrast/
          'Also, it’s very interesting to note that high apparent lens contrast can be simulated digitally, and this may eventually prove to be an Achilles heel for silver-halide photography where viewer appeal of prints is concerned. “Sharpening” only improves visual microcontrast, of course, not actual resolution of detail. But resolution of very fine structures seldom helps pictorial photographs much, and, in my opinion, is an overrated property where lens quality is concerned.'

          I'll put it more simply. I bet you could use your favourite lens and I could use the other one and our results would be remarkably similar. After you post process I could match your shot even more closely with my post processing. Especially with modern software like Lightroom. You MIGHT see a slight difference if you pixel peep at 100%.

        • p1 ama on 17/02/2016 - 19:28

          @syousef: I'll reply to both your comments at once, so I don't have to double post. I won't comment more on DPR, because I think we both agree that there are plenty of annoying people there. Some people have more tolerance for that than I do.

          Generally speaking, I agree with what you're saying, but I think that cheap primes are far, far better than similarly priced zooms. For example, the stellar Nikon 35mm f/1.8G DX is probably the single best investment you can make if you're shooting DX. I think you'd have to be crazy to not have that lens at $150-ish second hand or $200-ish new. I'd steer most people towards body-only + 35/1.8G DX rather than getting a DX body with the 18-55mm kit lens.

          It's not just about IQ, or sharpness, but you learn significantly more when you can control your aperture and when you have to shoot with a prime. You learn to move, you learn to actually compose and you learn how standing in different places at different angles gives you different shots. Zooms tend to make you more lazy. Ultimately, though, discussions of this kind don't matter because you'll go away and shoot how you want to shoot and I'll go away and shoot how I want to shoot and I'm sure we'll both make good images.

          In regards to sharpness vs. microcontrast, there is a difference. Sharpness relates specifically to the number of lines per mm a lens can resolve. You can probably take a lens and measure its implied MTF curve and get an understanding of its sharpness. Microcontrast is a different concept, it has to do with how the lens renders the transitions between light and dark edges and how it transitions between in-focus and out-of-focus areas. Like I've mentioned before, go check out the bloke Yannick Khong - he's the one claiming that there's a difference, not me. I'm not the one preferring older lower element count lenses in the name of microcontrast.

          I'll put it more simply. I bet you could use your favourite lens and I could use the other one and our results would be remarkably similar. After you post process I could match your shot even more closely with my post processing. Especially with modern software like Lightroom. You MIGHT see a slight difference if you pixel peep at 100%.

          I completely agree with you.

        • syousef on 17/02/2016 - 22:16
          -1

          @paulsterio:

          We agree on DPR. Check.

          Zooming is not the same as moving. I think primes make you much lazier because you never develop an understanding for the differences between increasing focal length and moving close - background compression, depth of field all change. You also miss a lot of moments if you're doing what the typical photographer starts out doing i.e. capturing their family.

          As for Yannick Khong I had a brief look and can't say I'm a fan. Lines per mm resolved is the ability to resolve lines of dark and light edges. That's exactly how an MTF chart is made. So if what you're claiming he's saying is a correct interpretation I'd say that's pure nonsense. Until someone shows me side by side images coming out of camera from 2 lenses of the same focal lenght on the same body with the same sensor that look appreciably different because one is sharper but the other has better microcontrast I'm going to call BS.

          I can also tell you this. Newer lenses aren't always better than older lenses but the Canon STM lenses in particular are amazing, at least on the 18MP bodies I own. I use to shoot my 18-70dx on a D90 on the Nikon side and would always stop it down a stop despite liking the lens a lot because it was "a little soft wide open" as is the classical case. I don't need to do that on a 700D with the 18-55STM. I'll shoot it wide open quite happily. It's a shame that wide open for it is 5.6 at the long end and that you lose the 55-70mm range so I still primarily shoot my Nikon. (I also have the 18-135STM in Canon. It's also very good and sharp but does have fringing issues and the length means it creates flash shadow at the short end). Anyway my point is the newer lenses have the benefit of improved focus technology and lens coatings, experience with optics and more mature assembly line. They are often SPECTACULARLY better than the old lenses. For example I have the 18-55VR in Nikon and the 18-55II in Canon and neither produce as sharp or contrasty an image - they're not terribly far off but you can tell without pixel peeping.

        • p1 ama on 17/02/2016 - 23:55

          @syousef:

          I think we ought to agree to disagree on zooms vs. primes. It's very much a personal decision and I think we're both experienced enough photographers that we know exactly what the compromises are both ways.

          Personally, I've always been a prime person. Even today, when I'm shooting events or weddings with my 24-70/2.8, there just isn't the same enjoyment as when I put on a 35/1.4 or 85/1.4. It's hard to explain, but it's the experience of looking into the viewfinder and knowing exactly I'll get, it's the creamy, lush backgrounds at f/1.4, it's their smaller size, all of these things add up. Personally I just prefer primes.

          And yes, I know how awesome Canon's STM lenses are. Their 50/1.8 STM is absolutely awesome. Super-duper sharp, quick to focus and just a gem to use in general. I'm a definite fan!

  • TitaniumOvaries on 17/02/2016 - 11:21

    Probably a dumb question, but will this lens work a 60D?

    • p1 ama on 17/02/2016 - 11:22

      Yes

    • TitaniumOvaries on 17/02/2016 - 11:32

      @sellingoutsoon: whats the chances I will get this on friday, if I live in sydney?

  • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 17/02/2016 - 11:40
    +1

    Lots of wonderful discussion about photography, a good read guys, thanks for all of your contributions. The way I'd say it is like this (along the lines of what paulsterio was saying): It could be summed up: "art vs science". We've all heard musicians forced by their parents to play classical music to a high academic standard at a young age [science]. Then comes along someone who didn't need to be told: "OK, do it again, this time with feeling", they have it, they do it, they are it, and you can feel it…[art]. Nobody drinks Coca Cola or smokes because of the health benefits, but rather the way it makes them feel. Personally I don't know half as much about photography as some of you, but the first time (and I mean the first time) I ever took photos with my point-and-shoot Sony 4.1 megapixel camera I sold them for $1000. Yes, this was before phones had cameras, and my point is I did it with feeling. Oh, and that particular camera had a real Zeiss lens, before they started churning out the new "flat-looking Zeiss" ones in conjunction with millions more pixels. The point is I did it with feeling. So my advice is not spend money on a photography course, or a book about photography, but to get out there and capture what makes you feel something. Hopefully if you're in tune with the moment, and have gear that is conducive to art (as opposed to just science) you may achieve something that imbues more than what can be measured by numbers.

    • TitaniumOvaries on 17/02/2016 - 11:41

      Sorry off topic but whats the chances of having this delivered by Friday in Sydney?

      • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 17/02/2016 - 11:42
        +1

        Guaranteed

        • TitaniumOvaries on 17/02/2016 - 11:42
          +1

          You have yourself a sale sir

        • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 17/02/2016 - 11:42
          +1

          @TitaniumOvaries: Love your work :) if you are really in a rush, can you PM me your order number once completed, and I'll have someone senior at warehouse level follow your order to make sure everything goes smoothly for you, is that OK?

    • syousef on 17/02/2016 - 18:15

      A good artist uses the science too, it's just not the focus - it's a tool to achieve a result. If you don't know what's possible, you limit your ability to create.

      I think it's terrible advice not to get a book or take a course. Learn the fundamentals of your camera equipment. Read your camera manual cover to cover when you buy a new camera. Get out there and use what you learn.

      • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 17/02/2016 - 21:42
        -1

        Haha, sounds like you're more of a scientist :) and I get your point of view. Steve Martin said "writing about music is like dancing about architecture", or something akin to that. If you get my vibe, that won't require explanation, if not that's OK too. I read a manual once. Not successfully. The things the manual tried to illustrate were better learned through experience. I couldn't seize the day because it was gone. This lens is for the artists among us, I think. Let it teach you through feeling.

        • syousef on 17/02/2016 - 22:05
          -1

          Sorry but that's just nonsense. You don't try to read your manual in the field. You read it beforehand. If you don't understand how to set your camera, you don't even know what's possible. You can't feel your way to understanding what a setting does.

        • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 17/02/2016 - 23:25

          @syousef: It was allegorical. Do people vary, or do we all learn the sane way? If you like reading, perhaps try The Artist's Way to see the other side, and why method can but true artistry cannot be read per se :)

        • p1 ama on 17/02/2016 - 23:59
          +2

          @syousef: You're a reasonable guy and I agree with you, but unfortunately, it's not always the case. I'm like you - I've spent countless hours reading photography books, reading reviews, writing my own reviews, thinking about my shots, poring over technical details, watching tutorials, taking workshops…etc. People must think my photography is at least okay, because I managed to get hired, but then I see my partner who has probably done around 5% of the formal study that I have and she churns out amazing pictures. They're not always composed in the most artistic way, not always shot in the best way possible, but they're amazing pictures because she has a good eye, she knows where to go and she appreciates where she is.

        • syousef on 18/02/2016 - 07:37

          @sellingoutsoon:

          There are things you can't learn by reading. And there are things you can't learn without reading. You can't ignore half of your education. You have to read, and you have to go out and experiment. It's not an either/or situation.

        • syousef on 18/02/2016 - 07:40

          @paulsterio:

          My wife also can outshoot me and is the artist in the family. She can paint amazing pictures using anything from spray paint to acrylic. She composes shots more naturally. But if you hand her a camera that hasn't been set up she struggles and she does mess up and obtain blurry images from time to time, usually because she doesn't realize she should be using a faster shutter. She would have no clue setting up a multi-strobe off camera shoot, but she could take a beautifully framed pic. If she did half the reading I did she'd be amazing.

        • p1 ama on 18/02/2016 - 11:37
          +1

          @syousef: That's exactly my point. Ultimately, not everybody loves geeking out about cameras the way that I do (and I presume you do, as well). For some people, cameras are just tools and they'd be more than happy just using it on AUTO mode taking pictures of their lives. I'm also a bit of a computer geek, I build my own computers, select out great components…etc. but not everyone who uses computers are - it's a similar concept. Not everyone needs/wants to learn everything.

        • syousef on 18/02/2016 - 12:01

          @paulsterio:

          You missed the point. The lack of interest means she requires tech support from me. Without it she'd be missing a lot more of her shots, and I can't always be there. if you want to be any good and self reliant you HAVE to understand your tools whether you enjoy geeking out or not. Not just in photography.

        • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 18/02/2016 - 16:50

          @syousef: Maybe say it nicer mate…saying "you missed the point" and "that's nonsense" isn't very friendly and I'm surprised nobody has taken it a bit more harshly. In terms of "the point" …are you 100% sure there's not another point somewhere…maybe…sounds like your wife is smart in a different way…she knows she doesn't need to be completely self-reliant, if you're there to fix things :) Being self-reliant isn't the best thing, societally. Also, I can think of a heap of examples where you don't need to understand (or basically know anything at all!) about your tools to be good. And in my brief but entertaining experience on earth, those who do "know the stuff" quite often can't do it better. Here are 3. I couldn't fix my espresso machine to save myself, but my coffees are so good, they could be listed as an antidepressant. I know people who can't fix their dirtbike, but can ride sideways at speed, and jump over things without crashing. And how many millions of people use computers to the level they're happy with, without knowing anything about anything? Most people, most of the time. Sometimes you've got to trust your intuition, or marry someone who trusts theirs! Being self-sufficient seems like a great idea, but, like sex, life is best done with more than one person :)

        • syousef on 19/02/2016 - 12:49

          @sellingoutsoon:

          I didn't call anyone an idiot nor attack anyone. There is nothing wrong with pointing out that an argument that doesn't make sense is nonsense or pointing out that someone has missed the point. If you take offence at these things and choose to take them personally I suggest you reevaluate. The problem isn't me.

          The examples you have given of people who don't understand their gear but do well with it aren't valid. You are confusing the skill required by an end user with the skill required by a technician or mechanic. It has nothing to do with science vs intuition. They simply aren't the same skills.

          I'll address your examples directly:

          • As a user of a coffee machine you aren't required to maintain it. If you were a coffee machine maintenance repairman and you didn't understand that you'd be worthless.

          • Likewise with driving a vehicle and being a mechanic. They are different skills. But a good dirt bike rider will know how and when to shift gear, limits of the bike, limits of his body and many other technical things to get an edge on the rest of the field. A good mechanic won't need to be an expert rider but he will need help from a good rider if he can't test the bike himself.

          • Computers are a little harder. The line between technician and end user can blur, and the variety of tasks they're used for are immense. A good power user will be able to find their way around to resolve an issue and even do some very simple scripting to solve a problem. However, again, you don't need to be a computer expert to be an expert at typing up documents using MS Word. A good secretary/personal assistant will still have to call for IT support if the computer isn't working properly.

          Camera repair techs are a dying breed in fact. I don't expect anyone to tear apart their camera and put it back together. But I do expect an enthusiastic amateur photographer to understand the settings on his camera and being enthusiastic about learning how to use it differently and in different situations to his or her advantage. Like the bike mechanic requiring a tester, the camera technician has to be able to use a camera well in order to test it and diagnose problems, but doesn't need to be a good photographic artist.

          My wife is very smart and photography isn't her priority. However when you miss key moments because you haven't bothered it is frustrating. She could be phenomenal if she so chose. But as it's a hobby and not a business I can let it go. If she were to take it up professionally (not likely) I'd expect her to get better at understanding her gear. My wife has other strengths and at the end of the day she doesn't need to be an expert photographer to capture some great images of the family. When the settings are right she will often outshoot me. So I help her get the settings right when I'm able.

        • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 19/02/2016 - 12:53

          @syousef: Thank you for your comments. You make some good points. They'd be great if we could see your smile. Because smiles aren't just for photography, they're for people. And we're all people :) Cheers mate!

        • syousef on 19/02/2016 - 12:54
          +1

          @sellingoutsoon:

          Yes I disagree with you on a lot but I agree that people getting along is a good thing, and I do appreciate your attitude. Have a great day.

  • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 17/02/2016 - 23:40

    DEAL UPDATE

    • THANK YOU for such a BRILLIANT RESPONSE Ozbargainers!
    • And the lively discussion…you guys rock!
    • NOW ONLY 1 LEFT! …who's getting it….is it yours??
    • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 18/02/2016 - 16:54

      Last one — free upgrade to EXPRESS shipping!

  • Store Repsellingoutsoon @ SellingOutSoon on 18/02/2016 - 23:32

    UPDATE: All sold out!

    Thank you so much OzBargainers for your continued support (and in this case, a really good discussion on photography, and other things!)

    If you want to avoid missing out on our best deals before everybody OzBargains them… please subscribe to sellingoutsoon on OzBargain: and then click on the little subscribe button :)

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