Scam in the making

sbblackangel on 29/06/2016 - 17:30
Last edited 29/06/2016 - 18:37 by 1 other user

Hi all,

First time poster, put my car on a popular site to sell my car. Don't do it often. Got what seemed a geniune query and I responded. Then I go this response, my alarm bells are ringing.

What do you think?

Thanks for the response,I would have loved to call you directly but due to the nature of my work we do not have access to phone at the moment,which is why I contacted you with internet messaging facility.

I am buying this for my first son who just graduated on top of his class at Charles Darwin University in NT ,He studied Building Design & Architecture. I want it to be the perfect graduation gift for him and am making it a surprise package ,Does it have any history I should be aware of? and why are you selling if you don't mind my asking. I don't mind adding an extra $300.00 for you just to take down the posting..I am already in talks with freighters that will handle the pickup and delivery .I will really appreciate if you can email more info

Due to the nature of my work i am a very busy man working all day,am a sailor am presently on-board, i don't have access to my bank account online as am not with my credit card details here but i have my ANZ bank account link up with my PayPal account so I will be paying you through PayPal to your nominated bank account or better still is if you have a PayPal account ,please get back to me with your BSB and account details or PayPal account so i can proceed with the payment and contact the courier agent who will come to pick it up and deliver it in NT for my son .Await your reply .

General Discussion

Comments

  • snappy1234 on 29/06/2016 - 17:32
    +149

    SCAM

    • elektron on 29/06/2016 - 17:49
      +1

      Anything in particular giving it away? Asking for the PayPal email?

      • retiredfeline on 29/06/2016 - 17:58
        +79

        sailor, private message, promise of extra

        • [Deactivated] on 29/06/2016 - 19:12
          +39

          The fact that the pickup will be handled by a 3rd party freight company is also suspicious.

          This sounds similar to the oil rig worker scenario.

        • Jackson on 29/06/2016 - 21:08
          +3

          @pointscrazy: This, you will end up with some biker with a tow truck at your house and you either won't be paid or some sort of charge back scam, he will say he didn't eecieve the goods and PayPal will refund him

        • WT on 30/06/2016 - 12:27
          +41

          Dont have access to "banking online" but im sending a message online

        • Scrooge McDuck on 30/06/2016 - 17:28
          +1

          @Jackson:

          you will end up with some biker with a tow truck at your house and you either won't be paid or some sort of charge back scam,

          Doubtful; this is much more likely to be an advanced fee fraud scam targeting greedy sellers with the lure of extra payment.

        • Jackson on 01/07/2016 - 00:01
          +7

          @Scrooge McDuck: Yes there's a thousand ways this can play out, either way it's a scam. As soon as you hear "I am on a boat, and I love my son, and here's extra money' sheesh, the email may as well be from Nigeria.

        • tonsta on 03/07/2016 - 00:59

          @Jackson: there won't be any charge backs, they use fake PayPal emails, not even an actual account.
          They actually do come and collect the car, so if you can be bothered just have the cops ready.

      • [Deactivated] on 29/06/2016 - 22:34
        +36

        Every single sentence is fishy. The bullshit meter is off the charts. I think that they make it sound extra-bullshitty on purpose to catch out dumb people.

        • retiredfeline on 30/06/2016 - 10:29

          I read about this a while back. It seems that spam emails have spelling and grammar mistakes because they've found that it helps weed out wary people. I think it's not a deliberate strategy but just evolved that way.

        • Scrooge McDuck on 30/06/2016 - 17:32
          +10

          Every single sentence is fishy.

          Especially the seaman one.

        • gadget on 01/07/2016 - 17:26
          +1

          @Scrooge McDuck: And who uses the term 'internet messaging facility' anyway instead of 'email'?

        • benbarren on 01/07/2016 - 20:18
          +1

          @gadget: every since icq i have wanted a good internet messaging facility #Luvthemessagingfacilitylongtime

      • ellos on 01/07/2016 - 16:31
        +3

        Also It is almost identical wording used in other scams I have read about.

      • Oliver on 01/07/2016 - 18:31
        +3

        There's about 10 massive red flags in this email that guarantee it's a scam. I'm not going to explain further because scammers sometimes trawl message boards to tighten up their scams with better ideas and improvements.

    • barbargain on 01/07/2016 - 16:38
      +1

      I got the exact email 3 years ago.

  • sbblackangel on 29/06/2016 - 17:50

    How does it work? I'm curious, I give them say my paypal and then what?….

    • lobbing on 29/06/2016 - 17:54
      +37

      I believe they pay you via paypal, take your car and request a chargeback through paypal to get their money back.

      Here's a helpful thread on whirlpool about the same thing: https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1953725
      You can see the email template is similarly worded and has changed a bit over time.

      • virhlpool on 29/06/2016 - 23:00

        But then PayPal isn't fool to consider their refund request. What do you say?

        • turkz1 on 30/06/2016 - 09:04
          +16

          But then PayPal isn't fool.

          FTFY

      • zoombie on 30/06/2016 - 10:09
        +2

        I believe the play in this scenario is that the PayPal account has been hacked.

      • jorf on 01/07/2016 - 10:40
        +2

        The car doesn't really factor in - that's only of interest in starting the transaction.

        The usual scam is to pay you with a stolen Paypal account, and then get you to then pay the "shipping company" or some other random charge via Western Union, with super urgency required.

        You think you're ok, because you received money in Paypal, but then Paypal will reverse the payment and you'll be left out of pocket. Whatever you paid via Western Union or bank deposit is gone.

      • SirFlibbled on 01/07/2016 - 11:06
        +1

        Usually they will over pay and then ask you to send the extra to their 'agent' through Western Union. The money then disappears from Paypal (if they send money via pay pal at all - sometimes they'll just send through a fake email) as they used a compromised account. You lose the money sent via western union.

        • Euphemistic on 01/07/2016 - 18:56

          What happens if you can get them to pay via western union? Haven't used it before, and don't know how it works.

        • SirFlibbled on 01/07/2016 - 19:57

          @Euphemistic: You wont. Western Union is basically the same as paying in cash. It's not recoverable. Which is why they use Paypal (usually a compromised account) and then they ask you to pay their 'agent' by Western Union.

        • Euphemistic on 02/07/2016 - 07:54

          @SirFlibbled: fair enough, so. Part of wasting their time is to attempt to get them to pay something by western union. Then when they tell you it's not safe you can string them along a bit further.

    • Slippery Fish on 29/06/2016 - 19:48
      +2

      Scam.see how he started shortening his sentences, leaving out words ect. They do that to create a sence of urgency.

      If he can PayPal he can net bank… Tell him to sod off mate, if it sounds to good to be true it usualy is.

    • TrailerTrash on 29/06/2016 - 20:20
      +12

      Got this myself a couple of years ago selling my MINI on Gumtree.. had to re-read it a few times and even got text messages asking to check my email etc.
      Sounded too good to be true (the $ that is) and their English was a bit better than your example..

      After some Googling and thanks to Whirlpool forums, I reported to Gumtree.

      From what I gathered, they wire you the money via PayPal, actually send a courier to come and collect the vehicle, take it to 'who-knows-where' and then because you handed the vehicle over to a "3rd Party" (the freight driver), the buyer then claims they never received the vehicle via PayPal and get a refund because you've not followed PayPal's T&C's regarding transacting?!?

      Steer clear.

      • virhlpool on 29/06/2016 - 23:03

        So PayPal recovers money back from the seller.. right? That way the seller loses car and doesn't get anything in return. Does PayPal even honour such claims?

        • guysmiley on 30/06/2016 - 07:39
          +2

          The really sneaky ones will just send you a screenshot of their Paypal payment, with your Paypal details, showing a payment, but there will be no Payment. The will claim an issue at the Paypal end, and still expect delivery of the item, while you troubleshoot the issue.

          Same thing as @pointscrazy, standard oil rig scam.

        • pufffdragon on 30/06/2016 - 12:48
          +2

          Rarely. Paypal will in most cases favour the buyer. Scammers and scumbags know this and take full advantage of it unfortunately. Which is why I never sell on Ebay or use paypal anymore.

        • TrailerTrash on 30/06/2016 - 22:09

          @pufffdragon:

          ^ this.. although it has improved a lot from when eBay USA was the only site around (before eBay AU and PayPal AU existed!).

          I got shafted once when sending Nokia mobile phones (remember the Nokia 8210?!) to a buyer in Indonesia (yeah.. I know what you're thinking..) and the money went into an Escrow Account and I was advised when it was cleared to send the phones..

          Got the notification all good, sent the phones and then the buyer cancelled the Escrow transaction (which completely defeats the whole point of Escrow in the first place, doesn't it!) and gets both his money back AND my 6 x Nokia 8210's!!

          Needless to say, I chased up the St Kilda based Escrow provider for months and never got anywhere.. phones were gone as was my money.. they've since closed up shop (I can see why!) and I'm much more careful now.

    • Peace Maker on 30/06/2016 - 08:12
      +3

      They send you a fake PayPal invoice which tells you to pay a delivery fee via Western Union, hence the overpayment. If you pay that, they keep hitting you up with more 'PayPal fees' until you give up.

      Nothing sophisticated about it, just them asking you to wire money pretending to be from PayPal.

      • Kangal on 01/07/2016 - 12:27
        +1

        Sometimes they actually do send the money, but then they get it refunded through PayPal.
        So you end up sending the goods, and never getting the cash.
        It's a big problem on PayPal at the moment, and PayPal doesn't care that much.

        But they are on to it now.
        Especially since there's competitors to PayPal such as Aliexpress and Amazon.
        And not to mention, the rise of mobile payment from Samsung, Apple, Google, and the big card companies.
        PayPal is definitely feeling the burn, especially when looking at their company's recent financial patterns.

    • foxmulder on 30/06/2016 - 15:02

      What mostly happen is that the PayPal payment is funded with fraudulent card which can an be as soon as an hour for the actual card owner to be aware and file charge back or as long as weeks.

      Transaction occurs as normal - seller receives money then do what the buyer instructed. For seller who are just happy to see his item sold he will do whatever the buyer asked to do. Buyer will organize carrier through third party website to organize the pickup. The address won't be his or her home addrrss.

    • Joshman5k on 01/07/2016 - 14:32

      They send you an email pretending to be from paypal and then either they:
      1. "over pay" you and ask you return the rest of the money via western union
      2. say to access the money you must pay a 'fee' via western union to access the money.

  • AlanJ on 29/06/2016 - 18:02
    +22

    My alarm bells would be ringing, too. He's only buying your car, not marrying your daughter. He just has too full a biography ready to share. I think I would prefer a buyer who just asked when he could pick it up!

  • sbblackangel on 29/06/2016 - 18:05

    Thanks, for the quick response. I told my better half, no Gumtree. Put up just today and 2 hours later. FFS.

    Thank you all.

    • spackbace on 29/06/2016 - 18:38
      +23

      Gumtree can be fine, you just need to be smart

      • nickj on 30/06/2016 - 13:02
        +5

        Yeah. The 2 main rules of gumtree are: 1) Only do face to face transactions, and 2) cash only payment in full on receipt of goods. Those 2 are flat-out non-negotiable when selling on gumtree.

        Then there are come recommendations/guidelines to avoid hassle. A 3rd guideline if you're worried about grab-and-run theft (such as for expensive phones or laptops): Preferably do the sale in a well-lit public space with CCTV (such as mall food court or McDonald’s or a police station). A 4th guideline if you're worried some potential buyers might turn out to be crazy: use a throwaway SIM card for your contact number, that you can chuck away when you're done. And a 5th guideline: the buyer comes to you (your call, but you want to avoid a situation where you're sitting around waiting for them and they may never turn up, so I always ensure the agreed location and time to meet fits into what I would be doing anyway in my life, so meet me where I live when I would be at home, meet me where I work if I'll be at work, meet me at a food court if I'll be there eating anyway, I've even had someone meet me in a shoe shop where I'm buying my kid's shoes when I needed to do that on a Saturday, etc). Obviously there can be a conflict between 5) and 3), and if that happens I usually give 5) priority.

        Personally, I do 1) 2) 4) 5), and for 3) my default location to meet is in the foyer of my apartment building (well-lit and has CCTV and somewhere to sit).

        • Kangal on 01/07/2016 - 12:28
          +1

          I suggest using a Police Station, as a Public place to do the transaction.

          For items such as iPhones etc etc.

      • johnno07 on 01/07/2016 - 23:23
        +2

        You don't even need to be smart - just not an idiot.

  • Heracles26 on 29/06/2016 - 18:14
    +13

    I've received this exact same message when I was trying to sell my camera on eBay. Definite scam!

    • Kangal on 01/07/2016 - 12:38
      +6

      YES !

      Me too.
      I ended up messaging him. I did it because I knew it was a scam.
      And I wanted to give him a sense of hope, and waste their time.
      The more time he wasted on me, the less time he had to do actually scams to gullible people.

      I saw this YouTube vid later, this guy is awesome:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QdPW8JrYzQ

    • serapax on 01/07/2016 - 18:41

      Same here - almost word for word the same when I was selling my car on Gumtree.

  • nanonoise on 29/06/2016 - 18:14
    +2

    http://www.scamnet.wa.gov.au/scamnet/Scam_Types-Buying_selli…

    We see them a lot through work emails.

  • holdenmg on 29/06/2016 - 18:24
    +14

    So, a Three Year and One Month Anniversary of this post:

    Fake car Buyer
    https://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=72396

    • altomic on 29/06/2016 - 18:27

      Scam

      • holdenmg on 29/06/2016 - 18:28

        Usual rates and no Western Union. lol

    • PVA on 29/06/2016 - 22:49
      +1

      excellent, the exact same wording.

  • altomic on 29/06/2016 - 18:29
    +8

    Sure. Take payment, withdraw money. Cancel card attached to PayPal.

    • [Deactivated] on 30/06/2016 - 01:05

      PayPal will hunt you down

      • doodo477 on 30/06/2016 - 12:50
        +1

        Would love to know why paypal would hunt you down? You've taken payment, transfered the monies into your bank account and closed the credit card/debit card attached to the account. If the other end does a charge back, and contests the transfer. I believe paypal has to decide who go after. The only person to decide this would be a local court where it would be paypal vs the other party. In this situation if you collect sufficient evidence I find it hard they could prove to a judge you scammed them.

        • callum9999 on 01/07/2016 - 14:18
          +1

          If they used someone else's PayPal account then you are in possession of stolen funds. No court would find in your favour…

        • doodo477 on 01/07/2016 - 14:58

          @callum9999: My guess the onus is then on PayPal to report the transfer to the local police department. Though most of the time paypal just leaves a negative amount owing on your paypal account that never goes away. In essence they've just become a unsecured creditor.

        • TenaciousTom on 01/07/2016 - 14:59

          @callum9999: Obviously, but him having someone elses PayPal account is completely unrelated to this scam.

  • rambutann on 29/06/2016 - 18:31
    +2

    Its literally the most generic scam message ever - have had it multiple times on multiple platforms.

  • Colombian on 29/06/2016 - 18:38

    I got exactly the same message 2 years ago when I sold my car through Gumtree. Beware.

  • sbblackangel on 29/06/2016 - 18:43

    I let him/her know in a "nice way" to stop wasting my time.

    • scrimshaw on 29/06/2016 - 19:06
      +12

      don't reply. never reply. You're wasting your time doing so (unless you want to perform scambaiting). Don't give them your personal contact emails or numbers either.

      Their tactic is to simply spray 'n' pray, its very likely they would have sent out the same email to many sellers as well and then hope for just 1 gullible customer to believe their sob story.

  • chumlee on 29/06/2016 - 18:46
    +25

    Reply back and ask for payment in iTunes gift cards and he will need to email you the card numbers first so you can verify and then you will send him the car, wink wink.

  • sbblackangel on 29/06/2016 - 19:14
    +6

    Second email from a totally new query. 2 scams in 5 hours - new record

    Thank you for the mail, I'm interested in buying this and i will be paying you the asking price so consider it sold,i will like you to be honest with me because i will not be available to come for inspects due to nature of my work, Honestly i am buying this for my son, but the issue is I'm a NAVY Vet and i just got a deployed which starts tomorrow and am leaving any moment from now.It's strictly no call due to the lack of reception on the sea area. But I'm able to access email any time as will make use of computer.

    I want it to be the perfect graduation gift for him and am making it a surprise package as well ,Does it have any history I should be aware of? and why are you selling it if you don't mind my asking. I don't mind adding an extra $300.00 for you just to take down the posting..I am already in talks with freighters that will handle the pickup and delivery .I will really appreciate if you can email more info

    Due to the nature of my work i am a very busy man working all day, am a (NAVY Vet in which i deal Vet Softwares) am presently on-board, i don't have access to my bank account online as am not with my credit card details here but i have my ANZ bank account link up with my PayPal account so I will be paying you through Account to your nominated bank account or better still is if you have a PayPal account ,please get back to me with your BSB and account details or PayPal account so i can proceed with the payment and contact the courier agent who will come to pick it up and deliver it in NT for my son .Await your reply

    • timthetoolman on 29/06/2016 - 19:23
      +31

      This guy seems way more legit, a regular sailor I wouldn't trust but a NAVY VET ?!

    • [Deactivated] on 29/06/2016 - 19:37

      The terminology in the second scam email is almost identical to the first scam. Terms such as "surprise package","talks with freighters" and "extra $300.00" appear in both emails.

      Keep an eye out for unusual grammar, spelling and punctuation. These are also things which make scams obvious. Who uses the term "freighters" when they mean freight companies. To me, a freighter is a big ship with lots of shipping containers.

      • holdenmg on 29/06/2016 - 20:30
        +5

        and why doesn't ANZ say "more scammers use our Bank then any other"

    • chumlee on 29/06/2016 - 21:37
      +18

      How many pets do they have on the navy ship to require a vet?

      • holdenmg on 29/06/2016 - 23:28
        +33

        Our Government has a whole fleet of Navy Ships fully equipped with Vets to stop the goats.

        • BartholemewH on 02/07/2016 - 01:15

          FFS, no matter how many times it's explained, someone still asks.

      • Kkuba on 30/06/2016 - 10:49
        +21

        Have you never heard of Navy Seals?

      • Scrooge McDuck on 30/06/2016 - 16:56

        There are usually a few monkeys in the engine room.

    • lobbing on 30/06/2016 - 16:39

      Anyone working in IT would never say "softwares".

      • Scrooge McDuck on 30/06/2016 - 17:41

        Because everyone working in IT has an excellent command of English…

        ¬_¬

    • retiredfeline on 30/06/2016 - 17:20
      +3

      Tell each of them you sold it to the other guy. 😄😄

      • McFly on 30/06/2016 - 18:16
        +1

        Ask them if they know each other!

  • Nutrino on 29/06/2016 - 19:30
    +5

    Seriously, would any genuine buyer give that much back story?. Lol.

  • mitcheo on 29/06/2016 - 19:40
    +1

    Only a few words in before i identified it as a scam

  • Rggmcl on 29/06/2016 - 20:06

    A scam. When selling my car got an email similar to this one. Person on a ship, no access to phone. Courier for pick up. Did eventually sell car on gumtree to a genuine buyer.

  • J6 on 29/06/2016 - 20:07
    +10

    internet messaging facility??? Straight up scam!

    • PVA on 29/06/2016 - 22:50

      yep, the first sentence and I knew - scam.

  • Davo1111 on 29/06/2016 - 21:08

    i think you're dumb for not deleting it after the first sentence.

  • kash1 on 29/06/2016 - 21:22
    +10

    I'm so busy but I have time to send you an essay of a email of why I need the car and my plans for it etc etc.

  • Tech5 on 29/06/2016 - 21:34
    +9

    Ask if his father is a nigerian prince

  • lonix on 29/06/2016 - 21:39
    +2

    Tell them you only accept bit coin

  • Maglia Nera on 29/06/2016 - 21:40
    +6

    Have fun with the said scammer - for protips go here

  • gummibear on 29/06/2016 - 21:50
    +1

    Could you keeping giving them random paypal accounts you find on the internet and claim you didn't receive payment?

    In the end it'll waste their time and shouldn't cause any harm besides wasting the scammers time.

  • snook on 29/06/2016 - 21:57
    +2

    All you have to do when you get these things is copy/paste a paragraph and search. They always come up elsewhere.

    https://www.scamwarners.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=72396

  • snook on 29/06/2016 - 21:59
    +2

    I've had a few of them want a room i was advertising. Even got as far as getting one to fill out a questionnaire. Drove them mad.

  • jlogic on 29/06/2016 - 22:22
    +8

    Reply back and see what they say to you stating the car has history i.e. Was involved in a drive by, someone was murdered in it and the aircon isn't working but the car is ghostly chilly.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 30/06/2016 - 16:47
      +1

      They'll probably offer him $100 more.

  • poboy on 29/06/2016 - 23:06
    +1

    '…but due to the nature of my work…' man those alarm bells came quicker than I expected.

  • poppit88 on 29/06/2016 - 23:57

    This is extremely similar to a scam for rental / share accommodation. Except it's a Norwegian / foreigner away at sea. She'll pay via paypal she just needs you to send her the money to ship her stuff here. I almost got caught. Worked out what was going on and then managed to string her along for a couple of weeks. Luckily I went through Paypal and didn't hand over bank details etc.,

    • 2ndeffort on 30/06/2016 - 00:28

      Advance fee fraud, probably wants the money via Western Union!

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join