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Smappee Energy Monitors 10% off ($299.00 - 10%) Plus $15 Shipping (Coupon BATIBOUW10) Expires 1 March

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BATIBOUW10

Ends 1 March "Midnight". Not sure if that's midnight Belgium time (which would be ~9am March 2 in Aus)

Smappee Energy Monitors 10% off ($299.00 - 10%) = $269.10 (plus $15 shipping)

Coupon BATIBOUW10

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  •  

    What a strange thing to post… What are they like op? Maybe some info etc?

    •  

      It hooks up to your meter box and tells you exactly how much power your house is using.

      •  

        It hooks up to your meter box and tells you exactly how much power your house is using.

        What a totally and utterly useless product.

        There is already an electricity meter in there already that does exactly the same thing. For FREE.

        Website says:

        Smappee listens to the electrical power in your house and hears appliances being switched on and off. A real challenge, because there are many appliances at the same time. As if Smappee hears a rockband play and has to isolate the guitar, the bass, the drums and the lead vocals, and on top of that the different backing vocals.

        And at that moment you instantly KNOW that it's a complete crock of shit.

        Disclosure: I work in the energy efficiency industry.

        • +1 vote

          Your energy meter at best gives two readings (if two element) or there are two meters.

          Recognising power/current signatures is not completely impossible but far from a 100% foolproof technology.

          Their comparison is not far off, although it does depend exactly how they are differentiating between devices.

          I'm yet to see this work really well but calling it a complete crock is not completely fair.

        •  

          Not sure at the vitriol.
          I have a Efergy monitor that gives me real time usage infor in the kitchen showing both current consumption and production from my solar panels.
          It also has a pretty app/website where I can download minute by minute figures on usage to export to Excel.

          I find it very handy to understand what is consuming power, much more so than the little plug based monitors or running out to the meter box.

        •  

          @mskeggs:

          I have a Efergy monitor that gives me real time usage infor in the kitchen showing both current consumption and production from my solar panels.

          Yes, but that's not what THIS deal is about.

          It also has a pretty app/website where I can download minute by minute figures on usage to export to Excel.

          Being able to do something, and that something being useful are not necessarily the same thing.

          I find it very handy to understand what is consuming power.

          Things in the house consume power. The panels generate it. Clouds reduce panel efficacy. Night time the panels don't work. What was the bottom line for the month?

          much more so than the little plug based monitors or running out to the meter box.

          You don't need minute by minute monitoring. It's the equivalent of watching your modem lights blink so you can "monitor your internet usage". If you feel the need to focus on power usage that closely, you are doing it wrong :-)

        •  

          @Shonky:

          Recognising power/current signatures is not completely impossible but far from a 100% foolproof technology.

          So it knows the difference between a 2kW bar heater, a 2kW oven element and a 2kW clothes dryer?

          If it gets ANY of the "signatures" wrong, then the whole result it creates is worthless.

          I doubt it even reads power usage correctly. Most of these things just guess power factor (reading kVAh and then guessing the kWh). In this one, they'd just fudge it in software, so it matches, but I bet it wont be accurate on kVA or kW anyway.

          Their comparison is not far off, although it does depend exactly how they are differentiating between devices.

          Any comparison you see on the website is just marketing wank. It's not real.

          I'm yet to see this work really well but calling it a complete crock is not completely fair.

          Most consumers have zero way to check the accuracy of these doodads. Most of them are wrong however the more the consumer believes the date produced the better that the device is deemed to have worked.

          Pointless data anyway. What are you gunna do, switch off your freezer? Turn off the kid's Playstation to load shed on summer afternoons?

        •  

          @llama:

          Disclosure: I work in the energy efficiency industry.

          You work in the field and don't see any value in being able to review what time of day power is being used and generated?
          If my bill says I am using 8kW a day net and I have 3kW of panels, is it worth adding another couple of kilowatts? Should they face east or west instead of north?
          Time of day figures lets you know if you can offset consumption against more solar.
          It also allows you to look at when you are using power to assess whether TOU tariff or standard is better value.

          Just having the total consumed as recorded by the meter doesn't answer any of these questions.

          If you feel the need to focus on power usage that closely, you are doing it wrong :-)

          My power bills are much lower, so I'll risk doing it wrong and pocket the savings.

        •  

          @mskeggs:

          You work in the field and don't see any value in being able to review what time of day power is being used and generated?

          Stop arguing with me, and go look at WHAT THIS PRODUCT CLAIMS TO DO.

          Go, now… please.

          Then come back and read my comments again once you understand what we are discussing.

        •  

          @llama:

          Just checked and found what I needed to confirm the guessing of Power Factor

          Smappee Pro is the best choice if you:
          • want to measure the consumption of separate circuits and subcircuits
          • want to know how much each separate phase of your installation consumes
          • want to measure active as well as reactive power

          So, basically, these things (perhaps except the Pro) are just clamp meters. They are not in the slightest bit accurate in detecting Watts, kW or kWh.

          The basic model has 3 clamps so you can measure AMPS on 3 circuits, sub circuits or whatever. It doesn't ever measure Power, it measures AMPS.

          You have to clamp to the correct place too - no use clamping a power cable (Active Neutral Earth) heading off the the kitchen.

          What me say "it's a crock" is all the marketing bumph that cons consumers about the accuracy.

        •  

          @llama:

          I doubt it even reads power usage correctly. Most of these things just guess power factor (reading kVAh and then guessing the kWh). In this one, they'd just fudge it in software, so it matches, but I bet it wont be accurate on kVA or kW anyway.

          Why wouldn't it be accurate? It measures voltage.

          I'm considering getting one as it can monitor my water usage and given the issues we have now with the water companies billing people many thousands for unknown leaks it's worth it just for that feature.

        •  

          @llama:
          None of that quoted statement tells you they are merely clamp meters.

          They are saying they are measuring active and reactive power - you then say they can't detect W, kW or kWh?

          And yes you have to clamp in the correct place, they do not hide that fact so why is that important.

          Sure they can't necessarily tell the exact difference between similar loads. It's more than just the absolute load. Things like duty cycle can tell a lot about the load. e.g. a bar heater is probably 100%, whereas an oven or dryer will switch on or off. I'm not saying it has this level of intelligence but it doesn't have to be as simple as a load measurement.

          The data can be accurate enough for consumers, and as mentioned can drive usage habits too which can still result in energy savings.

        •  

          @Maverick-au:

          Why wouldn't it be accurate? It measures voltage.

          It measures voltage of the socket (phase) that you plug it into (to power it).

          It doesn't measure voltage of the 3 loads that are clamped.

          Furthermore, in order to calculate (say) the fridge's power consumption, it has to know the Volts, Amps and Power Factor of that load.

          If the PF of the fridge is 0.6 when the motor is running, then this thing cannot know that.

          Once it makes one guess about the "consumption" of one device, that makes all the other results a guess as well.

          As for the accuracy - a device that can measure 50A is unlikely to be accurate at small loadings. And the voltage is swinging all over the place, so even if Amps was (say) +/-5%, you need to allow for the volts )(which it doesn't measure at a circuit level) to get VA, then know the Power Factor in order to calculate Watts. Then do that with some degree of accuracy over time, in order to work out kWh.

          Each of the calculations must be done quickly enough to track the loads accurately, yet it's impractical to take lots of samples. The best it will be able to do is average across it's sampling rates, probably once a second or so. I Don't know the specs, and they don't openly publish the accuracies etc on their site (it may well be there, I didn't check very hard).

          So, I am not going to attempt to guess the respective accuracies and tolerances of each of those calculated numbers, but the cumulative error on one "load consumption" needs to be adjusted out of some other load in order to get the ledger to balance.

          The bottom line is that consumers have no way to easily and accurately verify the numbers that this kind of product generates. Blindly trusting it is OK, however there are cheaper ways to guesstimate your power consumption across many loads.

          Note: My comments don't relate to any total usage that it calculates… that is probably reasonably accurate. I am commenting on it's claims that it can analyse the power to learn "appliance signatures".

        •  

          @Shonky:

          None of that quoted statement tells you they are merely clamp meters.

          No, because I am not intending to copy/paste their website FAQ.

          They are saying they are measuring active and reactive power - you then say they can't detect W, kW or kWh?

          The PRO version does what I quoted. The basic one in this deal doesn't.

          Sure they can't necessarily tell the exact difference between similar loads. It's more than just the absolute load.

          Precisely. The ability to "know individual appliance consumption" is what this entire marketing bumph is about. Apart from that, this product is just a client side load meter like any of hundreds of similar and cheaper ones.

          The data can be accurate enough for consumers, and as mentioned can drive usage habits too which can still result in energy savings

          In my most recent 15 years in energy efficiency industry, the most effective method to save power is common sense. Having misleading or inaccurate energy consumption data just leads to incorrect conclusions being drawn. I've generally found that the best energy efficiency savings tend to be possible from sites that have the most gadgets installed to monitor it.

        •  

          @llama:
          "The app shows you how much you consume and how much it costs you, in real-time and on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. It also shows you how much your always-on use accounts for, both in terms of kWh and pounds, euros or dollars."

          It is a mains energy meter. You can see the sensors it uses on the accessories page:
          http://www.smappee.com/au/eshop/extras.html

          It looks like it has some analysis software that will look for common load types like presumably a refrigerator, heater etc. and try to label stuff, which might be helpful to some, though it is pretty simple to tell what is using the power if you have a real time display.

          I have used a few different meters with current clamps, and they are all quite accurate for readings above a few watts. For example, the load goes up by 1000w when two bathroom heat globes are turned on etc.
          If you need individual monitoring of low current loads, a 'whole of house' monitor probably isn't the best bet.

        •  

          @mskeggs:

          "The app shows you how much you consume and how much it costs you, in real-time and on a daily, weekly or monthly basis. It also shows you how much your always-on use accounts for, both in terms of kWh and pounds, euros or dollars."

          Yep, just like EVERY OTHER power meter of it's kind.

          It is a mains energy meter. You can see the sensors it uses on the accessories page:

          Yep, simple current clamps, min 50-60A per phase. Like EVERY OTHER power meter of it's kind.

          though it is pretty simple to tell what is using the power if you have a real time display.

          Oh really? How exactly could I tell if it was my fridge, my beer fridge or my deep freezer that's running right now back at my home?

          I have used a few different meters with current clamps, and they are all quite accurate for readings above a few watts. For example, the load goes up by 1000w when two bathroom heat globes are turned on etc.

          Ermmmm - but that's the point. The majority of loads in a modern home are NOT resistive loads like you describe. How would you know/verify whether it was accurately measuring Watts that (say) your fridge or washing machine is consuming?

          If you need individual monitoring of low current loads, a 'whole of house' monitor probably isn't the best bet.

          PRECISELY. Which is why I take exception to the bullshit claims made by the overpriced device in this deal.

        •  

          @Maverick-au:

          I'm considering getting one as it can monitor my water usage and given the issues we have now with the water companies billing people many thousands for unknown leaks it's worth it just for that feature.

          I just checked and all the water meter thingy does is counts the digits on the Water Company's meter. So, it's just going to tell you the same thing as reading the existing meter anyway.

          The water company simply charges you the usage in litres that their meter reads, so if the "unknown leak" is counted on the Water Company meter, it's your problem anyway (since you used the water). You don't need an additional meter to verify that - you can just use a notebook and a pen, and take periodic reading and compare to the billing.

          If you wish to dispute the accuracy of the Water Company meter, you'd get a plumber to fit a proper water meter. What do you hope to prove/achieve by adding an electronic, web-enabled "existing meter counter"? You were charged for 36.5 kilolitres over 93 days, averaging 400 litres per day. How can web-enabled instantaneous metering change that? You have used what you used.

          Or do you feel that counting the metered litres would substantially influence the amount of water you used for (say) a shower? I am frugal with money, but that seems like an awful lot of time, cost and effort to potentially save very little money each year :-)

        •  

          @llama:

          I just checked and all the water meter thingy does is counts the digits on the Water Company's meter. So, it's just going to tell you the same thing as reading the existing meter anyway.

          Right and I couldn't be stuffed reading the meter every few days. And what happens when you're away for a few months and there is a leak? Water into our house shuts off when the alarm is armed but the outside taps and sprinklers still have water connected.

          The water company simply charges you the usage in litres that their meter reads, so if the "unknown leak" is counted on the Water Company meter, it's your problem anyway (since you used the water).

          All the water companies used to offer remissions for hidden water usage that you didn't cause but now they are being spun off into profit making companies this is coming to an end. For example in QLD there have been a lot of cases recently where people have received bills from $5,000 to $12,000. To make matters worse the meters have been read by the water company and they have delayed notifying the homeowner.

          Queensland Urban Utilities are offering leak insurance now to cover part of the cost. The worst part is that most of our water cost is a repayment for the $9.9 billion mothballed water grid and that is based on usage. They have capped the remission if they do grant it to $1000 but make it hard to claim and no longer on investor owned properties.

          The cost of the actual water is something like 1% of the cost we pay so I find it pretty screwed up that they can get away with ripping you off in this manner.

          We get billed around five months in arrears as well so it could take a long time to pickup.

        •  

          @Maverick-au:

          Right and I couldn't be stuffed reading the meter every few days.

          Me neither. I couldn't even be stuffed worrying about such a low cost utility as water. Reminds me, I'm overdue $220 for last quarter.

          And what happens when you're away for a few months and there is a leak?

          I dunno. I've lived in my home for 30 years and there has never been a leak. I'd reckon that I worry about a water leak slightly less than I worry about the forthcoming zombie apocalypse.

          Water into our house shuts off when the alarm is armed.

          Gosh, how high tech! Does that deter thirsty burglars from lingering too long? LOL

          All the water companies used to offer remissions for hidden water usage that you didn't cause

          I don't even know what that means. In Sydney we get changed what gets read off the meter. You pay for what you use. I think Sydney Water might give you 50% credit if your plumber writes a good report. You certainly cannot get any rebate if they find any evidence of that leaking water anywhere…. it has to be "undetectable".

          Queensland Urban Utilities are offering leak insurance now to cover part of the cost.

          If you had $5,000 or $12,000 worth of town water spewing out onto your property. That's like 2 to 5 MILLION litres, which would tend to make a somewhat noticeable puddle.

          You certainly wouldn't need a WankPhone SmartApp device to notice that - you'd see all the local kids coming down the driveway with their flippers and towels. :-D

          If it's such a concern, wouldn't it be easier to turn off the water at the mains when you are way for an extended period of time?

          Sorry if I sound flippant, but surely there are more pressing things to be worrying about than the miniscule chance of a large water leak?

        •  

          @llama:

          Me neither. I couldn't even be stuffed worrying about such a low cost utility as water. Reminds me, I'm overdue $220 for last quarter.

          Water bills are double that in Brisbane and increase 4 times the CPI rate each year.

          Quarterly Access Fee
          Sydney $25
          Brisbane $48.12

          Cost per kL
          Sydney $2.00
          Brisbane $4.20

          See the difference?

          I dunno. I've lived in my home for 30 years and there has never been a leak.

          Leaks are not that uncommon, last month I found one of the valve covers on my solenoids for the sprinklers had cracked, looks like the extra cost is going to $100-150.

          Gosh, how high tech! Does that deter thirsty burglars from lingering too long? LOL

          Maybe it does but it also removes the risk of flooding on the timber floors.

          You certainly cannot get any rebate if they find any evidence of that leaking water anywhere…. it has to be "undetectable".

          Same in QLD, well it used to be before they spun the water companies off into profit making businesses.

          If you had $5,000 or $12,000 worth of town water spewing out onto your property. That's like 2 to 5 MILLION litres, which would tend to make a somewhat noticeable puddle.

          Nowhere near that and if it's over 3 month or longer period it may not be noticeable especially if you have decent drainage. In Queensland that's closer to 1.2 to 2.8 million litres.

          If it's such a concern, wouldn't it be easier to turn off the water at the mains when you are way for an extended period of time?

          And how would I keep my lawns and garden watered? I can add to my holiday costs $3000 in lawn replacement and another $2-3000 in plants.

          You may not see the value in monitoring your water usage but it doesn't mean that it's a stupid idea. Even Queensland Urbane Utilities are pushing their water insurance and costly monitoring device (around $500). If the Smappee does my water monitoring and can do my power for me as well (I already have an accurate meter wired into the switchboard with a RS485 interface) and gives me a nice app and warning of water use then it's money well spent. Most of the other power apps don't do water but they all have their issues and none are perfect so far.

        •  

          @Maverick-au:

          Maybe it does but it also removes the risk of flooding on the timber floors.

          Well, I have never heard anybody express such a concern.

          Nowhere near that and if it's over 3 month or longer period it may not be noticeable especially if you have decent drainage. In Queensland that's closer to 1.2 to 2.8 million litres.

          That is still an absolute shitload of water. It would certainly be noticeable on my property, as I have a 100% zero watering policy, and corresponding "if it doesn't survive then it shouldn't be planted there in the first place" selection plan. Only time my garden sees artificial watering is if somebody sneezes LOL

          So I don't have to worry about leaks from broken solenoids and manifolds and pipes running everywhere because they don't exist. There is almost zero chance of my 100% copper lines in my house and exterior suddenly bursting a leak, unless I accidentally smacked a pickaxe into it.

          Perhaps you have more exposure on this leakage thing compared to other people because of the relatively fragile and vulnerable mains pressure plumbing systems that you have installed? I wonder if you might also have had a significantly traumatic flooding experience in your past, creating an overwhelming anxiety and doom about water leakage, etc. :-D

          You may not see the value in monitoring your water usage but it doesn't mean that it's a stupid idea. Even Queensland Urbane Utilities are pushing their water insurance and costly monitoring device (around $500).

          It's not that I don't see the value, but more that there are numerous things that I personally consider to be significantly more important. I have always taken a "top down" approach to energy saving and risk management. Start with the highest energy cost or most risky thing, and work your way down. So, I would rank monitoring of water usage "to save money" or to "maximise chances of detecting a sudden, massive yet undetectable leak" on about page 217 on my priority list :-)

    • +1 vote

      Yeah, probably a rep/associated that hasn't declared that they are.

      Who signs up to OzB over 2 years ago, sits there lurking, hasn't commented or posted anything before and then thinks of posting this crock of shit.

  •  

    cant figure out what this spam does

  •  

    How does this compare to the flukso? (Even if you can't buy it at the moment….)

    https://www.flukso.net

  •  

    Any bargains?

    I can get a Belkin WeMo Insights switch from JB HiFi for $69 that monitors my energy usage of the connected device.

    I can also monitor my energy usage via MyHomeEnergy which logs into my smart meter

  •  

    It's a good product but too expensive.

    It seems it's a cloud based system. The device might become useless if they shutdown the server??
    And they can also sell the data out

    So, in my opinion, it is supposed to be free. :)