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berserkk on 30/12/2017 - 23:42 logos.com (1261 clicks)
Last edited 30/12/2017 - 23:43 by 1 other user
Last edited 30/12/2017 - 23:43 by 1 other user
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The bible is a very important collection of books, and I've read much of it.
This is a peaceful book,
Skipped the entire old testament did you? And revelations, …
Must have, otherwise he would said AWESOME BOOK! :)
The old testament is the entire thing. The rest was just made up later on.
@MrZ: ..and half of the NT has now been redacted by the various orthodox leaders. Mark was the source for Mathew and Luke. Acts and 2nd Peter are now a forgery, along with half of the Pauline epistles.
It really is all a bit silly flogging this dead horse.
@Major Mess: no it hasn't, scholars have been beating the dead horse of authorship, but in no way had any of it been redacted or a book in the canon been found to be a forgery. Luke and acts are highly related in its use of Greek and style of writing, Luke states in the letter that he obtains the information from his investigation of sources. The source 'Q' has no documentary evidence and may well be a person rather than a document. Good you have looked into things a bit but more research needed me thinks
Can't believe they are still selling this in hard copy,considering Moses had much of the second installment on tablet.
Mmmmm, ramen…
“Get behind me Satan!”
The Cool Story Bro edition of the Bible? About time.
was thinking the same thing…
I wonder if people would have similar demeaning comments for a similar deal for the Quran was posted…
If you post a bargain for one then I'll give it a shot.
Turn the other cheek?
I'll post a picture of Mohammad if someone does.
Who knows, have we been committing war crimes by invading any Christian regions lately?
Mmmm
Depends what you mean by ‘we’. If you mean Christians, or historically Christian-majority countries, Russia recently invaded eastern Ukraine and Crimea. If you mean the military coalition led by America that Australia is a part of, then further back there are many examples of the USA invading Christian-majority countries. Basically anywhere in Latin America would give you a good example of this.
Well yes, all of Europe for a start.
You seem to have forgotten that the vast majority of the violence in Iraq and Afghanistan was caused by muslims attacking muslims.
Guess who made up the numbers of Saddams military and poilce forces ? Muslims. Guess who did the gassing, raping and tormenting the of the iraqi citizens during Saddams years of power. Then after the west helped depose of Saddam and his evil forces, the violence continued by muslims attacking other parts of the iraqi community.
The west did lie about their military intelligence but the vast majority the evil, violence that happened was by muslims upon other muslims just because….
The same is true of Afghanistan, another example of the one group of locals in this case the Taliban wishing to impose their domination and pain upon the rest of the country.
Do you want me to give you more examples ?
Perhaps i shoudl ask you why muslims never protest against other muslims doing evil upion their fellow neighbours.
Today the UN lists over a dozen muslim countries where under age girls are sold as brides, where are the muslims protesting ? Millions of these girls die in childbirth because they are too young. Typical muslim bullshit, when muslims kill millions of muslims its fine, but if a westerner kills a dozen its the greatest crime in human history.
You guys shouldn’t tease each other about your stories, your all related..
“Three of the world's major religions — the monotheist traditions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam — were all born in the Middle East and are all inextricably linked to one another. Christianity was born from within the Jewish tradition, and Islam developed from both Christianity and Judaism.“
Very wise.
Look if you don't agree that my imaginary friend is better than your imaginary friend I'm going to have to kill you and your family.
Given the many millions killed by athiest regimes, I'm not sure if you're being serious?
@twjr: in that case, since i haven't shaved since Christmas Day, perhaps people should be scared of me ;-P
@newdad:
If you start taking shrooms, spitting gobs of fire and stomping on flying-turtle-geese, sure
@newdad: Guess it's simply to much effort for some to apply a little basic research, if they did they wouldn't spew out false blanket statements and link poor unqualified youtube vids.
Maybe, but it's the differences that matter in this case. :)
Didn’t Christianity go through a reform to “modernise”? I don’t recall hearing of similar feats from Islam etc?
blame Genghis Khan for that.
No Islam is a continuation of middle eastern religious ideas just like Judaism. Its a lie to pretend they are different, the bible has many concepts and stories which are simply copies of earlier religious ideas from older cultures.
Eg Noah's ark is a copy of Sumer stories.
Eg. The concept of animal sacrifice to pay for ones sins…
Everything should be open to criticism to assess its robustness and value. Stay away from anything you cannot criticize as that speaks volumes about its value.
I can brainwash you for free! Just byo cleaning gear.
Regret to this day that I sold my signed copy of the bible on Gumtree.
Signed? By Whom?
Fred Nile
The author, of course, aka YHWH.
Disappointingly, no instructions on parting the ocean, casting a golden calf or raining down hellfire
It has lots of practical advice, e.g.
how to test if your wife has been unfaithful, and how to abort the foetus if it is not yours:https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5%3A11-…
Geez, here I was forking out big $$ on a Private Investigator and purchasing the morning after pill.
Spend money on a PI? Pffft… You could have done it as Yahweh commanded: invade a nation, kill the men and take the women - and all their belongings to boot.
Sorry the west didnt rape all the virgins and kill all men and babies like the bible commands.
The destruction iof both places was done by muslims attacking each other. It still happens today, there are regular suicide bombings and attacks of mosques and market places.
The wests crime was trying to help give those peoples freedom from evil dictators. I suppose by your logic if the police come to arrest someone for beating their wife its the police fault as well.
The facts are islam is a very destructive community social system, they have been killing/raping each other since Mohammad. Stop blaming everyone else but the common factor that is everywhere that is the islamic shithole country.
At least these days the bearer of the child gets to decide rather than some dude without a uterus.
The era when God told Abraham to sacrifice his son, then "naah bra, i'm just messin with you lol'
Or when he tricks a soldier into killing his own child for the lulz!
Or kills ALL the unborn babies at once cause he hated their parents. Or how he says not to eat shellfish but makes rules explicitly allowing slavery including how it is perfectly permitted to beat a slave to death and have no punishment providing it takes a few days for them to die.
Wow, god's morals are so wonderful they put Hitler to shame!
still whinging about ancient laws for ancient Jews whilst Aussie women
Pay someone to murder their unborn in the millions@thelastnoob: So, do you believe a 'perfect, loving god' made laws allowing slavery and beating people to death and slaughtering EVERY SINGLE unborn baby in a world-wide flood? And do you think that saying 'That was made for ancient Jews' excuses that brutality and cruelty?
You have a strange notion of loving - I guess you think that German who forced himself on his children, got them pregnant and then tortured the ones he didn't like in his basement was your god's kind of guy? Actually, he sounds like exactly that kind of guy.
@Rayve:
My context is why atheists are whinging about stuff they don't believe happened whilst ignoring mass baby murder, mutilation and body part sales
Slavery is not a Christian institution but universal but it was men of faith who helped to end it in the west
Most of the values you hold dear come from christian values and christian nations@thelastnoob: No, 'Christian' values are whatever a person who reads the Bible decides they are which is why, for example the Bible was used in support of slavery and against slavery, for women's suffrage and against it, for the death penalty and against it.
For you to claim for example that slavery 'is not Christian' is a poor example of the 'no true Scotsman' argument - for most of the time Christianity existed it had no problems with slavery and indeed, as I mentioned, it laid out explicit rules for how the slaves should be managed. For you to say 'but that was for ancient Jews' is absolutely in complete disagreement with the views of Jesus who, according to the Bible, said he came not to change one word of those 'ancient Jewish laws' and that those laws, including the ones YOU don't agree with, I presume slavery included, will not pass away until the Earth itself is no more. Or do you think that you know more about Christianity than Jesus?
@Rayve: I'll throw in a little i guess. Biblical revelation is given to different civilizations in different times. Old testament to warring tribes (slavery would obviously follow). New testament worked better for slaves (who would still be produced through the normal means of the times eg war, trafficking) as Jesus commanded all to worship together (equally), whether slave or master, to love others as he did and spread his gospel (again slave or master). This obviously is a step in the right direction, and you are probably reading 'be good to your masters' as some kind of negative slave instruction, but honestly how else can someone in that position bring Jesus love to his neighbours and in there case, masters? In conclusion slavery is a human problem, not a religious or christian one. And lastnoob is right about it's ends and abortion is obviously wrong (you can argue about rights, but at the end of the day it's still the right to end a life).
@payton: that was the best joke. God won the internetz that day. That dude is always taking the piss.
Actually, abortions are allowed up until the moment of birth in some states. But what you are talking about is extremely, extremely rare.
Source - I do software work for an abortion centre in Australia and have access to all for the last couple of decades.Curious are the rates of spontaneous abortion; I guess 'god' designed women that way, eh?
@thelastnoob: so perfect that Eve had to have sex with her sons, eh? Gotta love these fairy stories, the little details end up being more messed up than a horror movie.
@thelastnoob: there's no evidence for any of your beliefs, not sure why you draw the line there; fairly typical cherry picking in my experience.
@mikeoz:
you are avoiding my statements I said you just made something up and you try to put it back on me
why don't you tell me if you believe an unborn is an alive human or not?High morals from someone who believes its gods will for men to rape virgins as long as they compensate the father for his lost sale sorry dowry from a marriage.
@ninetyNineCents:
Its not Gods will for that stuff. There are some laws for ancient jews in the ancient world thousands of years ago.
If you want to discuss morals let me know why you support the murder of unborn babies by the millions?
Is it because many women you know and love have done this?
Christians do science best. Ill challenge anyone to a debate on abortion and science.Its not Gods will for that stuff.
It was god will. Are you saying god made a mistake back then?
Its not Gods will for that stuff. There are some laws for ancient jews in the ancient world thousands of years ago.
I guess you know more than Jesus, because he says in Mat 5 that if you want to goto heaven you should learn and teach all of moses laws.
It doesnt matter when those laws applied or who they were for, those laws are TERRIBLE.
If you want to discuss morals let me know why you support the murder of unborn babies by the millions?
Where did i say i support abortion ?
Secondly its not murder, because Australian law says its legal to have abortions. Secondly can you please quote here where it says in the bible that abortion is illegal, because i know the bible and it doesnt say anything like that anywhere.
Of course im open and happy to learn, so please share with me where it says that abortion is illegal.
Is it because many women you know and love have done this?
When did i say i support abortion ?
Mighty words from someone who supports a book that says raping women is accepta ble, and having slaves and punishing them with violence is also gods will.
Feel free to ask me for evidence or look at Exodus 20 yourself.
Christians do science best. Ill challenge anyone to a debate on abortion and science.
Go for it. Lets make this interesting the person who tells lies about the bible pays $50 to the charity of the other person. My charity is the RSPCA.
So why did Jesus not wash his hands ?
Its not Gods will for that stuff.
It was god will. Are you saying god made a mistake back then?
Yeh god was so impressed by the rape laws of the other local nations that treat women like animals that he had to copy them.
Its amazing how god couldnt create laws that banned rape and slavery, and create a truely wonderful law system. Ausrtalia's laws arent perfect but they are a lot better and more civilised than what god could manage.
?> Its not Gods will for that stuff. There are some laws for ancient jews in the ancient world thousands of years ago.
Prove it. Where does the bible say that moses laws are "wrong" or "not his will"..
If you cant prove it, you have to pay my charity (RSPCA) $50.
Remember im not intersted in your theology, you must pick a verse from the bible and it must say EXACTLY what you claim…
I suggest you read the following from jesus, notice he says the laws of moses must be followed FOREVER…emphasis below is mine, the text is verbatim from the bible… Im only going to highlight v19, but you can read the rest of the chapter for more.
http://biblehub.com/niv/matthew/5.htm
19Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Thats right if you want to goto heaven, according to Jesus you should practice ALL of moses laws…
Would be mighty strange for jesus to say practice laws that no longer exist… btw jesus always quoted moses, love thy neighbour is also a dsirect quote from leviticus.
@ninetyNineCents: Exactly. It's the same God, just a different time, therefore A-OK!
God also likes his church leaders to commit and then cover up child abuse. If he didn't like this he could stop it, instantly. So he must really love it.
Actually god doesnt care about pedophilia, there are no laws in the bible, torah or koran prohibiting pedophilia. The concept doesnot exist in any of these books.
The fact that churches are ONLY afraid of the police and law, catching them shows they admit there is no god. After all if there was a god they should be afraid of him, after all he knows and sees all… Their actions admit they know there is no god…
@ChickenTalon:
The bible is pretty much one large book of 'Good Cop, Bad Cop' scenarios
Old Testament is G acting out the baddie to a biblical level, and New T the reverse.
Didn't see instructions on making life out of nothing either. When we are at it as they say there was nothing before the big bang, now we have all this and that makes me think… if nothing was able to make this universe then I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to get instructions on how to make Connoisseur ice cream, Domino pizza, beer… perfect wife, out of nothing.
The ability to disprove a theory by means of scientific experiment has always been part of the accepted scientific method.
There is a scientific method to prove 1 or the other fact. Either the universe just happened, we got what we have now, and eventually it will go back to nothing again. You started with nothing and you end up with nothing.
The other fact is, this universe isn't just something that just happened but was made by an intelligent being. Most call it god, in which case there is more than just your speck of life in this universe https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbfYsQfNWs
Yes, one way or another you will definitely find out who was right. Oh wait, when you die and there is nothing but the fact you were but a speck of sand that today is and tomorrow isn't, then I guess you will be dead and you won't know that you are in fact dead, never to exist again.
Devices are made by people. Can you always believe those devices? Sure, it's tinfoil hat, but like the string theory or parallel universe, how do you know that life in a parallel universe isn't quite different to what you believe is?
Until proven, god for some will be just that, a theory.
Until then https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIbfYsQfNWs you don't even register on it's radar.
they say there was nothing before the big bang
You misunderstood. There was no "before" for nothing to be in, just as there is no "outside". It is like asking what is south of the south pole.
The big bang is the origin of space and time, not something that happened at a particular point in space and time.Wouldn't space-time have been created at some moment in this event - therefore making this happen at t=0, or is such a concept meaningless? Perhaps t+ an infinitely small number?
"The big bang is the origin of space and time"
That is a theory, care to share the facts since not even scientists can agree on that one.
@bargainparker: In science a 'Theory' is not the same as in common usage - it is not an idea, a hypothesis, a thought. Rather it is:
noun
1.
a coherent group of propositions formulated to explain a group of facts or phenomena in the natural world and repeatedly confirmed through experiment or observation.
For example the (scientific) theory of evolution which seeks to explain why the observed facts (species change over time) actually happens. That species do change has not been in any real doubt in science for the better part of 150 years.Likewise, the 'Big Bang' is a model that seeks to explain observed facts. Unlike religious beliefs such scienctific theories are subject to change and can be falsified. They rely on data, not dogma. In fact, many religious groups have, as an axiom, that they will reject ANY evidence, no matter how convincing or well-supported, that they perceive is in conflict with the words of the Bible.
making this happen at t=0, or is such a concept meaningless?
Sort of. Current theories can accurately model down to 10^-43 seconds after t=0.
Before that is a bit of a blur :-) i.e. the model stops working. "creation" implies a prior event, so not a meaningful concept here.
Its like the singularity at the middle of a black hole - the singularity occurs in the mathematical models, which means we can't say what happens in reality. Some people say that is where God divided by zero.@Rayve:
Good explanation of scientific 'theory' there.
A nice example is Newtons gravity theory, combined with his laws of motion. From a few simple laws, he was able to accurately predict the shape and timing of planets orbits. Not perfectly, but to amazing accuracy. It was over 200 years until we got a better model.many religious groups have, as an axiom, that they will reject ANY evidence
Not Christians any more. The Pope accepts evolution, and the Big Bang theory was first proposed by a Catholic priest!
Here's a scientific fact.
When you die you will either find out scientists were wrong, or you won't find out your life was just but a flash which is already gone.
"confirmed through experiment or observation", "They rely on data, not dogma."
Do you trust those experiments and observations? Sure they might be telling us what 'facts' they are, that they are designed to look for, but how do you know that this is correct and that isn't? After all haven't you seen things that you believed they were one thing yet later found out they were another thing?
You know, maybe God is just something invented to give people to believe in, for variety of reasons, but if you can believe in a big bang theory, then there is nothing to stop people believing in god either. After all as much as God is a fairy tale for others, so too is the big bang. You not only got stars and universe, but life out of a flash and what's more without any design. It just happened and for example your body works perfectly fine to enable you to live your daily life. Sure, it might have taken millions of years for the evolution to sort it out but it makes me think it must be very dumb to make such a wonderful world, yet made people who will ultimately destroy it, as humans just use resources and leaving waste behind. Like companies, they won't do something unless it benefits them. What they don't realise it, there won't be anything left in the end, yet they keep having children and leaving them the world in worse state than what they received it from their parents.
In the end, you might start heeding scientists' warnings and take care of this planet, as according to them you won't have to worry about anything pretty soon when humans stuff up this planet.
"Likewise, the 'Big Bang' is a model that seeks to explain observed facts."
Yes, but where it comes from? Was it just sitting there and if so, what caused it to not just exist but to explode in this immensely huge universe? Was there someone poking it till it exploded, or you know nothing really caused it, it just happened without any external influence? Sure there are devices that can measure things, see things, etc. but that is only what is observable. Just like black holes. No one knows what is inside, since no one was able to observe it. It is but a theory what happens inside.
So far according to what science says about the end of the universe… looks like it makes no difference to what you do as the facts say humanity is doomed either way.
Yes, but where it comes from? Was it just sitting there and if so, what caused it to not just exist but to explode in this immensely huge universe?
If demand the big band too have a beginning then please explainm where god came from ?
So far according to what science says about the end of the universe… looks like it makes no difference to what you do as the facts say humanity is doomed either way
You demand science to explain everything and yet you fail to see the scientific failings of the bible.
For example all four gospels tell us repeatedly that jesus did not wash his hands before eatting… How exactly does jesus not know that washing ones hands is a good thing and fails to set the example ?
Feel free to google or ask for quotations.
"If demand the big band too have a beginning then please explainm where god came from ?"
Explain the big bang and you will get your answer where god came from. You do not understand this universe and you would to understand God… right.
Since that little dot was inert, there was nothing to make it go boom. Therefore logic tells us something external had to make it. But regardless of how it started, if you believe science then you didn't exist and you will return to non existence and it will be as if you've never been. That is simple logic if you believe science. In reality, you already don't exist like a plant that today is and tomorrow withers."Feel free to google or ask for quotations."
I don't have to. It has nothing to do with washing hands to make them clean. In those times it had quite different meaning, religious/ritual meaning. It wasn't washing of hands but simply pouring water over left and right hand. There was no soap or something else to clean hands as we know today.
Explain the big bang and you will get your answer where god came from.
I have never claimed i understood the low level details of the big bang, that has been explained and verified by thousands of scientists. THey use their knowledge of this to create/invent many things that we see everywhere in our modern world.
You do not understand this universe and you would to understand God… right.
Nobody understands everything. THis is a fallacy that makes no sense.
Since that little dot was inert, there was nothing to make it go boom
YOur understanding is wrong. IN fact scientists are still today trying to understand the entire procses including what happened before the BB.
Therefore logic tells us something external had to make it. But regardless of how it started, if you believe science then you didn't exist and you will return to non existence and it will be as if you've never been.
By your own logic, if god created the universe…who created god.
Your entire logic is bullshit.
That is simple logic if you believe science. In reality, you already don't exist like a plant that today is and tomorrow withers.
If our universe needed god to create it…and everything needs a start, then using your own logic, who created god ?
I don't have to. It has nothing to do with washing hands to make them clean. In those times it had quite different meaning, religious/ritual meaning. It wasn't washing of hands but simply pouring water over left and right hand.
The point is millions of people have died from germs and eatting, its a question of setting the right example, to teach people the best that you can.
You are avoiding the fact, ALL the gospels tell us Jesus NEVER WASHED HIS HANDS BEFORE EATTING….
Thats all it says…
What kind of example is that ?
You talk about scientists and knowledge, and this guy doesnt even know to wash his hands, or he cant be bothered to teach ?
So which is it ?
Doesnt know ?
Doesnt care to teach ?
There was no soap or something else to clean hands as we know today.
While soap makes washing considerably better, any form of washing even with plain water is better than nothing.
SO why didnt Jesus teach people then how to make soap and wash their hands ?
"By your own logic, if god created the universe…who created god.
Your entire logic is bullshit."
Why God has to be created? If it was possible to have something so small that nobody knows where it comes from, why is it hard to believe in God that was, is and always will be.
The big bang is a fairy tale. No, I don't mean it's all a lie. The facts are there. The big bang did happen. But if you can believe that we got this world just by some sheer chance, why is it so hard to believe in God? After all do you know where it all comes from? If all is but a chance, then by that definition anything is possible. Anything. Like a square planet. Or like a frozen star which even though it is frozen still makes another planet liveable. Since anything is possible, anything can happen any way and any form is possible.
In the end, whether I am right or wrong makes no difference to you or many others. But there are 2 facts. First, you will die. Second, you will either find out you were wrong, or you'll be dead as a doornail never to know you have ever existed.
According to evolution humans evolved to what they are today. Well it seems very dumb as it just stabbed itself in the back. humans are slowly, but surely destroying this planet. humans talk about future, achievements, happiness… but all they are achieving is slow and painful demise. Every generation that comes receives this world in better state than what they are leaving it to the next generation. You'd think by now evolution would be smarter and give humans understanding that you can not just consume and leave waste behind. But, that is exactly what happens.
So enjoy your science while you can because as Stephen Hawkins says, humans have only a short time before they go extinct, or… you can wait for the Sun to go boom if that is more preferable.
"The point is millions of people have died from germs and eatting, its a question of setting the right example, to teach people the best that you can.
You are avoiding the fact, ALL the gospels tell us Jesus NEVER WASHED HIS HANDS BEFORE EATTING….
Thats all it says…
What kind of example is that ?
You talk about scientists and knowledge, and this guy doesnt even know to wash his hands, or he cant be bothered to teach ?
So which is it ?
Doesnt know ?
Doesnt care to teach ?
There was no soap or something else to clean hands as we know today.
While soap makes washing considerably better, any form of washing even with plain water is better than nothing.
SO why didnt Jesus teach people then how to make soap and wash their hands ?"
I am guessing your reading wwas selective. I gave you the answer.
You first need to know the Pharisee tradition to understand the meaning behind it. And I will repeat. Washing today to make hands clean so you don't die from germs has NOTHING to do with WASHING of hands which was written in the Bible. The only reason it is mentioned is because it was a ritual/religious tradition of Pharisees. Just like where the Catholic church has baptism of infants. it is just a religious act and nothing to do with making sure you don't get sick.
Why God has to be created? If it was possible to have something so small that nobody knows where it comes from, why is it hard to believe in God that was, is and always will be.
Well you just rebuked your own argument against the big bang.
The big bang is a fairy tale. No, I don't mean it's all a lie. The facts are there. The big bang did happen. But if you can believe that we got this world just by some sheer chance, why is it so hard to believe in God?
I dont believe in the big bang, i KNOW its true because as you mention the facts that scientist have learnt. You dont seem to understand the difference between belief and knowing.
I suggest that you go check a dictionary for the definition of the two, because theres a BIG DIFFERENCE between them.
In the end, whether I am right or wrong makes no difference to you or many others. But there are 2 facts. First, you will die. Second, you will either find out you were wrong, or you'll be dead as a doornail never to know you have ever existed.
Neither of those prove god.
According to evolution humans evolved to what they are today. Well it seems very dumb as it just stabbed itself in the back. humans are slowly, but surely destroying this planet. humans talk about future, achievements, happiness… but all they are achieving is slow and painful demise.
None of these are proof or disprove god.
If you think god is so great, perhaps you might want to live under "gods" laws aka Moses laws. Perhaps when you see the misery they create you might have second thoughts on how such a genius could produce such utter garbage. Feel free to ask for example of the utter barbarity of Gods laws…
99: I am guessing your reading wwas selective. I gave you the answer.
BP: You first need to know the Pharisee tradition to understand the meaning behind it.
99: I do know of the Pharisee traditions, but im not discussing what they did or what they believed. Im simply pointing out what JESUS did…
BP: And I will repeat. Washing today to make hands clean so you don't die from germs has NOTHING to do with WASHING of hands which was written in the Bible.
99: Thats the point. You dont understand that Jesus set a BAD example here…Sometjhing as simple as washing his hands, he doesnt DO.
BP: The only reason it is mentioned is because it was a ritual/religious tradition of Pharisees. Just like where the Catholic church has baptism of infants. it is just a religious act and nothing to do with making sure you don't get sick.
99: Again you are jumping about mentioning many other people who are irrelevant to this conversation.
Im simply asking you why Jesus didnt do the right thing before eatting ? How does someone with his claimed knowledge of everything completely fail to teach by word or example such a simply worthwhile habit ?
99: "Feel free to google or ask for quotations."
BP: I don't have to. It has nothing to do with washing hands to make them clean. In those times it had quite different meaning, religious/ritual meaning. It wasn't washing of hands but simply pouring water over left and right hand. There was no soap or something else to clean hands as we know today.
99: Well i guess perhaps you should stop washing your hands before eating, after all Jesus didnt seem to care about this habit. If its good enough for jesus then it should be good enough for you. After all, it would be hypocritical to do tghe opposite of what Jesus showed by example.
"Well you just rebuked your own argument against the big bang.'
No I haven't. Where do you come from, where are you now and where are you going? if the future is either for the universe to get frozen to death or burned to death , again according to scientific research, then what do you have to look forward to? Regardless of the end your life is but nothing.
"I dont believe in the big bang, i KNOW "
Belief is also based on knowing about something. Doesn't have to be I believe in Santa Claus story. Even if you have never seen someone run over by a car because they crossed when it was red light, you still believe based on the know that if you cross the road when it's red light, that you might get killed.
"Neither of those prove god."
And it doesn't bother me the slightest as the fact is one of those two things will happen. If I just die never to exist again, I am happy with it as I can see how shallow this world is and it just leads itself into the pit. I am not admiring future generations as they will have harder and harder time, yet they will not learn from their ancestors mistakes.
And if there is God, well, I'll just say, I told you so.
So, I am good either way. Are you?
"If you think god is so great, perhaps you might want to live under "gods" laws aka Moses laws. Perhaps when you see the misery they create you might have second thoughts on how such a genius could produce such utter garbage. Feel free to ask for example of the utter barbarity of Gods laws…"
Yes… we could debate this till the end of the universe and I doubt we would be any closer to a resolution. But, disregarding that, you might actually read the New Testament and what Jesus said. If humans used that, even if they didn't believe in God, just the usual, don't kill, steal, lie… how much this world would be better. But, alas it is not to be.
BTW, the Bible is written by people, not by God. So, I wouldn't take the whole Bible in it's literal form. Don't they say, winners write the history.
"Im simply pointing out what JESUS did…"
Yes, I got that, except that it had nothing to do with wash your hands so you don't have germs on your hands. Just like baptising babies with water had nothing to do with washing. It was a tradition like many others. The Pharisee didn't say, wash your hands so you don't get sick because you have dirty hands. What he was saying though was, wash you hand for ritual purity. But you wouldn't know that since you only know about science, would you?
"Again you are jumping about mentioning many other people who are irrelevant to this conversation."
Already gave the answer, if you didn't understand it by now, then no point continuing.
"a simply worthwhile habit"
Well… that worthwhile habit is a ritual, nothing more, nothing less. As far as anyone is concerned Jesus may have already washed his hands to get rid of germs, and he refused to follow the Pharisee law under pretence. The Pharisee never saw washing hands as cleaning them off of germs, but for the ritual purity. In case Jesus was invited to come to another Pharisee's house right after that one, he would again be required to wash his hands even if the next Pharisee's house was right opposite the first one and Jesus didn't touch anything but food.
You fail to understand that Pharisees saw it as being ritually clean, not germ free. It didn't have anything to do with health aspect of it.
Amen…