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Free Digital Video Course "The Discipleship Program" @ Credo Courses

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Free Digital Video Course "The Discipleship Program" @ Credo Courses
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gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 00:42 credocourses.com (396 clicks)
Last edited 25/08/2018 - 03:07 by 1 other user

Normally $79.99. Free Digital Video for a limited time.

Description
How do you grow as a disciple of Jesus? How do you develop deep roots to live a Christian life? The Discipleship Program is designed to help set you on a course toward becoming a fully-devoted follower of Christ. This 10-session program focuses on both Orthodoxy (correct thought) and Orthopraxy (correct action). The Discipleship Program is designed to be an ideal study for small groups, Sunday school classes, or individuals who want to grow deep in their walk with God.

Discipleship Topics Addressed

Five Core Beliefs
Session 01: Bible
Session 02: Mankind
Session 03: Trinity
Session 04: Jesus
Session 05: Faith

Five Core Practices
Session 06: Prayer
Session 07: Bible Study
Session 08: The Church
Session 09: Living with Pain and Suffering
Session 10: Living as Lights (Evangelism)

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closed Comments

  • jv on 25/08/2018 - 00:44
    +10

    How do you grow as a disciple of Jesus?

    Eat more Cheezels !!!

    • PJC on 25/08/2018 - 00:47
      +3

      Amen to that.

    • inamberclad on 25/08/2018 - 01:09
      +9

      Would that be… holey food?

    • Lps on 25/08/2018 - 07:10
      +1

      I’m a disciple of OZB, will this help?

  • cheapo999 on 25/08/2018 - 00:57
    +3

    Free, but you pay with your soul. No deal!

    • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2018 - 15:57
      +2

      Where do you think you got your soul from?

    • T1OOO on 26/08/2018 - 02:46
      +3

      Good lord. If oz’s think they have souls won’t be long before they are trying to sell them for a few bucks!

  • Diji1 on 25/08/2018 - 01:53
    +9

    I came here for the atheist comments.

    • EightImmortals on 25/08/2018 - 09:41

      meh, heard one, you've heard them all.

    • t3chshopper on 25/08/2018 - 10:32
      +10

      How do you know someone is an atheist?

      They'll tell you.

      • FabMan on 25/08/2018 - 13:07

        Have I told you I'm an Atheist? Because I am… join our cult!

        • retiredfeline on 25/08/2018 - 13:11
          +6

          I'm a dyslexic agnostic, I believe that Dog is unknowable. 😉😉😉

        • J4ckal on 25/08/2018 - 21:53
          +3

          @greenpossum: I know it's a joke but that's the worst iteration.
          My favourite is: I'm an dyslexic, agnostic insomniac, so I lay awake at night wondering if there is a Dog.

        • retiredfeline on 25/08/2018 - 22:13
          -1

          @J4ckal: Nah, that's too well known and overloaded. Sometimes you just want to snipe and GTFO.

  • Sabric on 25/08/2018 - 05:34
    -8

    This is harassment as you keep bringing same matter here
    This Credo courses nothing but religious propaganda despite so many negative comment about your posts previously

    This post is not different than any others.
    It is NOT a digital video course but The Discipleship Program to inflict damage to brains

    • NoDiggerty on 25/08/2018 - 07:59
      +8

      Hide it from your feed then.

      • dealhunt on 25/08/2018 - 08:25
        +3

        I visit ozbargain to find bargains.

        • jv on 25/08/2018 - 08:27

          This is a freebie though…
          You’re looking in the wrong section

        • dealhunt on 25/08/2018 - 08:39
          +7

          @jv: This brainwashing has always been free since before the Romans civilization.
          I often find DVDs and books left on purpose on trains and trams, they even keep coming to my door with books and DVDs.
          They're boring and rude because they always talk about the same repetitive stuff and they keep coming even if I politely told them not to come anymore.

        • umphy on 25/08/2018 - 08:53
          +13

          @dealhunt: Secular people often think of religions as brainwashing. What I find interesting is that they don't realise that they themselves are being "brainwashed" by a myriad of philosophies, while believing they are the true "free" thinkers.

        • FabMan on 25/08/2018 - 13:11
          +4

          @umphy: Strange, because if no one mentioned God to me or any form of religion I don't believe I would have created one as I don't wish to control people. With my skeptic mind, if no one mentioned the term atheism I think I would have been skeptic of the invisble being who never answer my calls, apprently loves us but occasionally wipes out masses of us, and allows adults and kids to die painfully of cancer.

        • umphy on 27/08/2018 - 22:13

          @FabMan: Why do you think all religions were started with the intention of controlling people? With a skeptical mind, why would you believe in Atheism rather than Agnosticism, which makes more sense to me. Have you ever been skeptical of Atheism itself? Are you open to other world views other than your currently held belief?

          It seems that people have a tendency to blame God for all the bad things of the world. Never mind the existence of evil and the greed of people, which puts the bottom line above fellow human beings, resulting in much suffering. Of course, this by no means answers your question regarding suffering, but you do know that there are numerous books dedicated to this very topic right? :)

        • FabMan on 27/08/2018 - 22:45

          @umphy: I mainly believe in the scientific method, basically it doesn't exist unless it's proven. It's not that exactly, but I no longer want to research or listen to people discuss their god in the effort of being open minded, it's not because I refuse to accept other beliefs it's because there isn't enough time in my life to listen to everyone's view. So I'll pick those things that interest me to spend time on.

          As far as I can tell, there are thousands of different beliefs, I don't want to investigate them all. They can bring me proof and I'll listen. But when people say I'm being brain washed I sometimes respond. I'm not sure who brain washed me since I don't go to a hall to listen to someone every Sunday tell me there is no god, sing songs about there being no god, give donations so they can spread the word of no god, read an old book written by an organisation designed to convince me god isn't real, I don't get down on my knees every night with my eyes closed being grateful for the lack of a deity. I just live, existing with my family

        • umphy on 02/09/2018 - 15:36

          @FabMan: If you only believed in things that can be scientifically proven, then I think you wouldn't believe in half the things you actually believe in. Of course it's impossible to look into all the belief systems in the world. But it's not unreasonable to examine the handful of major world views in some degree, especially if you claim to have a strong conviction of one of them. If you claim a strong conviction of a world view without examining others, that to me is being "brainwashed", aka. "blind faith".

          Brainwashing can happen anywhere, and it is certainly not confined to within a building or when someone preaches to you. People get bombarded with various philosophies all the time, through radio, TV, music, movies, games, just to name a few. And nowadays, you can even think of the education system itself as a form of brainwashing in terms of the philosophies and ideologies that they are pushing to the young kids.

          I guess as an Atheist, you would believe in the Theory of Evolution? Have you looked at the scientific proof, or the lack of it, before believing in it? Or did you just take the word of your science teacher to be the truth, as many kids would have? If you wanted to hear from someone credible with a different view, I strongly suggest the videos by Dr. Grady McMurtry on youtube which is in 4 parts. Here is the link to the 4th part, which is the shortest of them all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txEoErEWdaI

          Long gone are the days when Science is the noble pursuit of knowledge and truth. Many scientific researchers unfortunately let their own beliefs get in the way of true objective research. Also, due to pressure of funding, much of modern science is driven by agendas which fund the research, often producing biased research that does more harm than good to the society.

        • FabMan on 02/09/2018 - 22:04

          @umphy: Dr. Grady McMurty is a Doctor of Divinity, a person who has studied to attack people who accept the Theory of Evolution, so I don't think I will, but I wouldn't listen to Tom Cruise go on about Scientology either. The Catholic Church, the head of the largest Christian denomination believes and accepts Evolution, which shows it isn't a Christian / Atheist thing.

          Since humans have been alive longer without a Christian faith, since there are more people alive today who do not believe in the Christian faith than do, since the Christian faith is so divided they've murdered each other for centuries. I cannot see a reason to follow Christianity over a branch of Islam for example, I'd rather study Buddhism.

          As for what I've studied, well there are classroom lessons, a couple of books over the years out of interest, travelling and visiting natural history museums, articles in magazines and online, and documentaries. I haven't conducted any research myself, but I've looked at others research and evidence. If evidence, NOT CONJECTURE, shows evolution is incorrect I'll accept it, but I'll still go to work tomorrow, I'll still play with my kids and I'll still be with my wife.

          I don't see how Evolution and God cannot get along, if God created everything, I can't see how people cannot accept Evolution at least as a God's creation, or the Big Bang as a God's creation. God doesn't plan absolutely everything, otherwise they'd be no free will, so God leaves things to chance. Evolution is a great game of chance.

        • umphy on 02/09/2018 - 23:13
          +1

          @FabMan: Good that you love spending time with your wife and kids…please keep doing that no matter what you believe or don't believe. As an aside, I love your avatar. I really enjoy watching He-Man with my son as well.

          Yes I am aware there are Christians that do believe in Evolution. But personally, I find Evolution far from being proved as a scientific fact. It seems strange to me that it is one of those theories where it is accepted as the truth before being proved beyond a doubt as true, and the onus is on the opponents to provide evidence to disprove the theory. To me that just runs against normal scientific practice.

          It's fine that you don't want to listen to Dr Grady McMurty's video. A few interesting highlights for me were:
          - blood vessel found in dinosaur fossil
          - soft tissue found in dinosaur fossil
          - half-life of Earth's magnetic field, which can be used to approximate the age of the Earth
          - clear images of distant rotating galaxies. If they have been around for so long, the images we see should be like a photo that has been blurred by over-exposure
          - distance of the moon to the Earth increasing by 2 inches per year. Using maths to calculate age of Earth backwards.
          - the great inconsistencies between the various radiometric dating methods (e.g. carbon-14, potassium argon etc.)
          - variable speed of light! Now this was interesting to me in that I was always taught that the speed of light, c, is a constant, and the laws of Physics depends on it. But after a little research, even Einstein said the speed of light could vary.

        • FabMan on 03/09/2018 - 07:10

          @umphy: I'm actually glad science doesn't have all the answers, otherwise for me they'd be nothing to look forward too. So where you might see failings, and I truly I understand that, I see more opportunities to learn and expand our understanding.

          Science is basically about making a Hypothesis 'I believe this will happen because', run a test, make an observation, record results compare to hypothesis, if regularly testing shows it is correct, it is an accepted theory. If a result fails or new evidence shows it's wrong, the theory has to change, that is why evidence is required to prove evolution is wrong because current testing methods shows it is correct. There are blanks, missing information, but not every animal that dies leaves enough or any evidence, and people have to interpret that information.

          I hope you have a good day.

        • umphy on 04/09/2018 - 00:36
          +1

          @FabMan: I think it is a fallacy to think that science can explain everything. I am familiar with the normal scientific process, and hence my statement about the exception regarding Evolution as I don't believe there is enough evidence to prove its truthfullness. I have enjoyed our conversation, and I will leave you with a quote from Dr. Berlinsky's famous book "The Devil's Delusion: Atheism and Its Scientific Pretensions" (who by the way is an Agnostic and also a critic of Evolution):

          “Has anyone provided proof of God’s inexistence? Not even close. Has quantum cosmology explained the emergence of the universe or why it is here? Not even close. Have our sciences explained why our universe seems to be fine-tuned to allow for the existence of life? Not even close. Are physicists and biologists willing to believe in anything so long as it is not religious thought? Close enough. Has rationalism and moral thought provided us with an understanding of what is good, what is right, and what is moral? Not close enough. Has secularism in the terrible 20th century been a force for good? Not even close, to being close. Is there a narrow and oppressive orthodoxy in the sciences? Close enough. Does anything in the sciences or their philosophy justify the claim that religious belief is irrational? Not even in the ball park. Is scientific atheism a frivolous exercise in intellectual contempt? Dead on.” — Dr. David Berlinsky

        • FabMan on 04/09/2018 - 04:41
          -1

          @umphy: While I understand some points, the 'not even close' is quite flippant and wrong.

          Just one quick one, there have been and there are numerous physicists and biologists who are religious. Other ones are wrong too, but that one is important, as I want you to believe that science is a valid option to everyone.

    • gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 08:58
      +6

      Hi, here's a link showing you how to hide those deals. So you don't see it next time. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/wiki/help:faq_beginner?#how_can….

      • Sabric on 26/08/2018 - 22:45
        +1

        Thank you, I have done it

        No more Free Credo Courses or gt021 preaches

    • t3chshopper on 25/08/2018 - 15:51
      +2

      This is harassment as you keep bringing same matter…

      Snowflake much? There's so much junk posted here on Ozbargain. Hide it and move on with your life.

    • TheDukeOfNukem on 26/08/2018 - 09:17

      Woah, look at that, a rational rebuttal, downvoted into invisibility.

      Thought you needed 10 negs before the vote gets revoked? Guess not. Shame.

    • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 26/08/2018 - 16:32

      its not harassment because its not targeted. dont be a snowflake

  • Trantor on 25/08/2018 - 06:10
    +6

    This contain the teachings of Brian?

    • cozmo on 25/08/2018 - 06:52
      +5

      I mean, what have you got to lose
      You know, you come from nothing, you're going back to nothing
      What have you lost? Nothing!

      • [Deactivated] on 25/08/2018 - 08:07
        +5

        blessed are the cheesemakers.

        • fatbeer on 25/08/2018 - 22:48

          What's so special about the cheesemakers?

  • Lps on 25/08/2018 - 07:11
    +2

    Not too many beliebers here

  • dealhunt on 25/08/2018 - 08:28
    +2

    I don't understand why common pedophiles get punished while well known church figures never go to jail, maybe it's God's way to punish and redeem them.

  • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 09:20
    +1

    Whatever Christianity may or may not have going for it as a religion, the people who see fit to nominate themselves as qualified and worthy to propagate it are pretty low-grade hucksters.

    • dealhunt on 25/08/2018 - 09:34
      +1

      They run a business and their aim is to bring new clients to their tax free milk factories.

  • TheDukeOfNukem on 25/08/2018 - 10:11
    -1

    PLEASE stop posting this propaganda-at-best level stuff on here?

    Every time you get challenged on it you just go "well it holds value to me, therefore it's worthwhile" over and over in true blind faither fashion.

    One or two of these things…whatever. But there's been at least more than five in just the last couple weeks. Stahp it, in Jebus' name.

    • jv on 25/08/2018 - 10:17
      +13

      PLEASE stop posting this propaganda-at-best level stuff on here?

      You can say that about pretty much every deal post…

      Everyone will have different opinions on whether it's a bargain, or a freebie or not…

      I don't think it's valid to deny someone posting something because they are different to your religious beliefs…

      If this course is always available for free, then it shouldn't be posted… If was a paid product and is now free, then it's a freebie…

      • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 10:19
        +1

        “You can say that about pretty much every deal post…”

        Uh, nope, you can’t.

        Need to bone up a bit on your rhetoric there, fella.

        • jv on 25/08/2018 - 10:20
          +7

          Uh, nope, you can’t.

          You can if you are going to attack a deal purely on your own beliefs, which is what you are doing…

        • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 10:22
          +5

          @jv: Describing religious material as propaganda may be inflamatory but it is strictly true.

          Whatever your beliefs (even Christian) if you adhere to the bald definition of propaganda then that is religious promotional material’s purpose and its nature.

          But over and above that if you are suggesting that it’s arguable that any deal post can be described as propaganda then you need to rethink your understanding of the term.

        • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 10:25

          @jv: “which is what you are doing”

          Comprehension skills sorely lacking, it seems.

        • dealhunt on 25/08/2018 - 10:27

          @jv:

          if you are going to attack a deal

          Attacking what? Why using this harsh word here where we only look for deals?

        • udem113 on 25/08/2018 - 14:03
          -3

          @0jay

          I'm sure there will be some freebie atheist material out there you can read.
          I'm sure you will be reading it alone though.

        • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 14:53
          +5

          @udem113: That's an unnecessarily catty remark.

          On balance I'm agnostic, chiefly because I really don't care enough to be as dogmatic about unbelief as believers are about their faith but one issue I do get engaged on is method.

          Just because a person objects to evangelism or/and Christian social conservatism does not necessarily make them atheistic.

        • pensionday on 25/08/2018 - 23:09
          +1

          @0jay: I'm lost: is he catty or dogmatic?

      • TheDukeOfNukem on 25/08/2018 - 10:19
        +5

        It is though, when they keep getting told that, and they keep putting them back up, doing half a dozen or so in a week or two.

        It's just spam at that point.

        If I put up a deal for, let's say I make a YouTube channel and put up videos about [insert subject here] and I post a link to it here as a deal, get told how full of shit I am, and then proceed to keep doing it again and again and again, it's spam. It's the very definition of spam, even.

        • jv on 25/08/2018 - 10:21
          +4

          It's just spam at that point.

          Then maybe there should be a posting limit for everyone, just like Reps, so you can't post from the same 'store' more than 2 or 3 times a week.

        • TheDukeOfNukem on 25/08/2018 - 10:22
          +4

          @jv: That'd be a HUGE step in the right direction and I'd be all for it.

          As usual, jv, you've done it again.

    • gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 10:18
      +1

      Hi, here's a link showing you how to hide those deals. So you don't see it next time. https://www.ozbargain.com.au/wiki/help:faq_beginner?#how_can…

      • TheDukeOfNukem on 25/08/2018 - 10:20
        +3

        If I just blocked out things I don't like, I'd be no better than a Christian pretending death isn't the end.

        • gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 10:21
          +1

          See you again next week then, have a great week.

        • jv on 25/08/2018 - 10:22
          +3

          oh the irony… lol…

        • TheDukeOfNukem on 25/08/2018 - 10:27

          @jv: Guess I'm regretting my most recent hair cut then, because I had nothing there to stop the irony from going right over my head apparently…?

        • t3chshopper on 25/08/2018 - 10:37
          +2

          So you don't use an ad-blocker, I assume, because then you'd be no better than a Christian pretending death isn't the end?

        • TheDukeOfNukem on 25/08/2018 - 15:14

          @t3chshopper: Not sure what my viewing or not viewing of ads has anything to do with blind faith, but for the record, I don't. I did used to, admittedly, but in my opinion ads have become a lot less intrusive on most sites over the last five years or so, probably in counter to so many people using ad blockers nowadays, and it's nowhere near bad enough that I feel the need to deny revenue to sites I enjoy solely for a teeny bit more convenience.

          But again, no idea what relevance that has to the matter at hand.

        • t3chshopper on 25/08/2018 - 17:14

          @TheDukeOfNukem: Dude, you made the comparison yourself:
          "If I just blocked out things I don't like, I'd be no better than…" You made blocking things out relevant to the matter at hand.

        • TheDukeOfNukem on 25/08/2018 - 19:25

          @t3chshopper: Yeah, fair point, I didn't pay any attention to my own wording and completely missed that. On me.

        • t3chshopper on 25/08/2018 - 20:29

          @TheDukeOfNukem: All good. BTW, good on you for supporting sites by avoiding adblockers.

    • CacheHunter on 25/08/2018 - 15:28
      +1

      These are videos of university classes. I'm not a fan of some aspects of socialism, but I can accept that others find value in a class on Marxist Perspectives or the like.
      Similarly, my doctors have told me not to drink because it will interact with some painkillers while I'm recovering from surgery, but I wouldn't complain about a video series on wine making, even though it's not of interest to me at the moment.

      • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 15:46
        +1

        Cadres of wine-makers never conspired to seize the reigns of power and shame/terrify people into submission to an unseen all-powerful entity.

        As a subject of study it's vocational and and therefore more directly analogous to hairdressing or the like. Not knocking hairdressing but it's not comparable to academic pursuit.

        • TheDukeOfNukem on 25/08/2018 - 16:09
          +1

          0jay, you on a (profanity) roll today dude. Kill it!

        • BuyoTheCat on 26/08/2018 - 00:45

          If the said wine-makers do seize reigns of power and shame/terrify people into submission to an unseen all-powerful entity, will you neg all deals on wine?

  • bargaino on 25/08/2018 - 10:54
    +1

    Free/cheap religious paraphernalia welcome here.
    The same old always-free propaganda? Should be driven out like the moneylenders from the temple.

  • xuqi on 25/08/2018 - 11:42
    +1

    Typical of such ideologies to in this digital age to be offering their message on an outdated medium.

    • gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 11:50

      How is digital video outdated?

    • retiredfeline on 25/08/2018 - 12:11
      +1

      I think you're going by the thumbnail. It's a pity you can't get the DVDs free for a preview of hell by nuking them in a microwave for 5 seconds. :P But only 5 seconds of entertainment, unfortunately, so not really worth the bother even if free. Put them in a plastic bag if you do this because there will be noxious fumes.

      • gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 12:13
        +1

        You can download them and write the data on a dvd. And then put it in a microwave.

        • retiredfeline on 25/08/2018 - 12:23
          +1

          Nah, not even worth my time thinking about it.

          And anyway, when we have finished it, we are slippery. ;)

        • gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 12:27

          @greenpossum: based on your previous comment it seems you already thought about it.

        • retiredfeline on 25/08/2018 - 12:48

          @gto21: Nuking unwanted DVDs is preexisting knowledge so the effort was minimal. :P Offered as a PSA for wider benefit.

      • xuqi on 25/08/2018 - 13:09

        Right you are, skimming over the ad is about as much thought I gave the topic.

  • bluechan on 25/08/2018 - 12:05
    +2

    To be up front. I’m an atheist.
    For Christians/Catholics I have a few questions. I don’t expect you to have answers to these questions. I challenge you to ask your religious leaders:
    For young earth creationists (YEC) (people who believe in the literal text of the bible specifically that the universe was created in 6 days):
    Depending on which YEC you ask. The universe is between 6,000 to 12,000 years old. This is worked out by looking back at the lineage of Hebrews back to Adam. Using biblical texts as a guide. Assuming the age of the universe is between 6,000-12,000 years old. How do you explain our present day observation of other Galaxies. For example: The closest known galaxy to us is the Canis Major Dwarf Galaxy, at 236,000,000,000,000,000 km (25,000 light years) from the Sun. (This is sourced from NASA). If the age of the universe was 12,000 years or less, we shouldn’t be able to see any other galaxies. For those curious you can measure the distances to distant objects by using basic trigonometry. And this is something you can do at home if you have the right equipment.

    For Christians and young earth creationists:
    According to the bible, God created the universe in 6 days. This includes all life. And yet the bible makes no mention of T-rex or any other spectacular dinosaurs. I would assume if you saw a great big dinosaur walking around. You’d want to write about it. Draw a picture of it. Create clay models of it. Something. While there are mentions of dragons in the bible. They tended to be mythical references (some of which apparently breathed fire) and not firsthand observations of these creatures.

    All those who believe in the bible:
    According to the bible if you are not baptised you cannot enter heaven (John 3:5). This includes new born babies who die before being baptised. If God was all knowing and merciful. How do you reconcile this.

    Stoning a woman to death. Because she wasn’t a virgin on her wedding night. Deuteronomy 22:13-21. Have a read. Now consider. Jesus lived by these rules/guidelines. While he lived as a mortal man. This is what he believed was just and appropriate. Because if he wanted to, he could have demanded this be changed. Yet it’s still there in the bible.

    • gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 12:10
      -1

      Great questions. This will answer your questions. https://www.credocourses.com/product/christian-apologetics-1…

      • bluechan on 25/08/2018 - 12:16
        +1

        Are you able to provide an excerpt or point me to the timestamp/page/paragraph where my questions are answered? i.e. Are you literally saying that you have answers to all of my questions in the resources you linked to?

        • gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 12:26

          And this one for the second question. https://www.credocourses.com/product/soteriology/ I don't know exactly where; it's for you to find out. It's your questions, not mine.

        • inamberclad on 25/08/2018 - 12:39
          +4

          Not totally apples v apples, but to balance out the "stone her" issue from your last point. If he was as upright and moral as some suggest, I guess he could've/should've thrown a rock or lecture her way. Why didn't he?

          John 8:3-11 (NLT)
          A Woman Caught in Adultery
          3 As he was speaking, the teachers of religious law and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in the act of adultery. They put her in front of the crowd.

          4 “Teacher,” they said to Jesus, “this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5 The law of Moses says to stone her. What do you say?”

          6 They were trying to trap him into saying something they could use against him, but Jesus stooped down and wrote in the dust with his finger. 7 They kept demanding an answer, so he stood up again and said, “All right, but let the one who has never sinned throw the first stone!” 8 Then he stooped down again and wrote in the dust.

          9 When the accusers heard this, they slipped away one by one, beginning with the oldest, until only Jesus was left in the middle of the crowd with the woman. 10 Then Jesus stood up again and said to the woman, “Where are your accusers? Didn’t even one of them condemn you?”

          11 “No, Lord,” she said.

          And Jesus said, “Neither do I. Go and sin no more.”

        • marbliminator on 26/08/2018 - 09:58
          +3

          @inamberclad:

          I love this passage because most Christians don't understand it in context, and just take it mistakenly at face value as if Jesus was against the death penalty.

          You're right in picking up that Jesus should be upholding the law, and actually he does (even the death penalty theoretically) - but he upholds the full law by first ensuring that it's going to be true justice, not a miscarriage justice.

          It's generally accepted that this was a setup, partly because the way the story plays out but also because it's known that the scribes and Pharisees wanted to get rid of Jesus.

          The unspoken dilemma (but understood by the intended audience at the time) was that the Jews had been forbidden by the Romans (who now ruled over Israel) to put anyone to death. And this is the only reason why the Pharisees brought the woman to him - not because they respected him, but because they wanted him to "uphold the law", pronounce death on the woman, and subsequently have him dragged him off to the Romans and be executed for breaking the Roman law.

          However, Jesus knew what the Pharisees were up to, and could have guessed that the poor woman, who may well have been committing adultery, had potentially been setup/seduced. To further lend weight to this - the 2nd guilty party - the man who was also committing adultery with her is not also brought forward (despite her being caught 'in the act'). And there is the distinct possibility that he's actually one of the complicit crowd that brought the woman to Jesus in the first place! Understand at this point the woman has no one on her side so speaking out about this setup would not make any difference to her plight (not to mention that she's probably going into shock expecting to be put to death and at having been betrayed so cruelly).

          But Jesus knew the law. In particular the law about what's required to put someone to death, and the role the witnesses need to play. If you read Deuteronomy 17:6,7 and 19:15-21 - you can see a few things.

          1. There must be more than one witness
          2. The witnesses must cast the first stone(s)
          3. If the witness is lying/false - they must suffer the same penalty (in this case - be put to death).

          So when Jesus stood up and said “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to cast a stone at her” (And note that this is a more accurate translation from the NIV than the NLT one which you provided), he drove home that the person who declares himself as being a witness (by throwing the first stone) must not have been complicit in the act of causing the woman to commit adultery. If ever it came out (and people talk!) that this was a setup, (where was the man who was with her, how did these other people come to witness this private act etc etc) the whole ugly plot would unravel and the crowd would remember - who threw the first stone (and 2nd and 3rd), and these 'witnesses' would be similarly executed.

          So - with that - the threat of death penalty upon the compromised witnesses - first the accusers, and then the crowd, melt away.

          Jesus then quietly restores the woman - "Where are your accusers? Has no one condemned you?"
          "None Lord" comes the humble reply.
          "Then neither do I condemn you - go and sin no more", something which after that experience, she would I'm sure, have taken to heart.

    • mgh4me on 25/08/2018 - 14:45
      +4

      I will also be up front. I am a a Christian. And no I cannot provide empirical evidence for your very good questions. However let’s start with your first one about YEC. What if there was an intelligent creator of the universe who is not bound by the laws of nature and time like us? What if there was a man who claimed to be God and that same man did what science would say is impossible: Calmed a storm by his word? Healed people with various diseases without medical interventions? Raised people from the dead? He himself, after many predictions over many centuries, and following his own public testimony was crucified, entombed and rose again from the dead on the third day. If such phenomenon occurred in the name of and under the authority and power of the Christian God is it not also possible that the universe was created in six days contrary to the limitations of our scientific theories?

      • gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 14:55

        Let assume science is right about the age of the universe. How old was Adam when he was created? If he was created with age, let say he was 12 or 30. If Adam was created with age now apply it to everything else in creation. As a result, a young earth or old earth won't disprove Christianity.

        • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 15:17
          +1

          @gto21 That doesn't make any sense.

          What 'age' Adam was created to be has no bearing on the age of the universe and in fact (thank God) neither does Christianity have any real bearing on God, Christ or anything really, other than Christianity.

        • gto21 on 25/08/2018 - 15:19

          @0jay: Yes it does if he was created with age, everything could have been created with age.

        • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 15:23
          +2

          @gto21: That is astonishingly childish logic. Magical thinking, in fact.

        • abb on 27/08/2018 - 14:02

          @0jay: Don't bother 0jay, I tried to have a reasonable 'debate' with gto21 last week and (s)he does not argue in good faith. Misunderstands, takes things out of context, then leaves.

      • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 15:09
        +1

        "is it not also possible that the universe was created in six days contrary to the limitations of our scientific theories?"

        So God stashed a scattering of dinosaur remains cos he's a trickster or science is unable to date those remains accurately?

        • mgh4me on 25/08/2018 - 17:00

          Not sure that you have answered my question. The bible was not written to prove the existence of particular animals or species. There are many animals that still exist today that it does not talk about eg wombats, koalas etc. Can you tell me why no mention of dinosaurs equates to no God?

        • mgh4me on 25/08/2018 - 17:05

          @mgh4me: I believe that it is raining today here in the Hunter because myself and many other Christians have been praying for rain. Science could show why it rains due to various experiments etc but that does not disprove that God sent the rain.

        • mgh4me on 25/08/2018 - 17:10

          Not sure about dating techniques and how accurate they are proven to be. Is the belief about their accuracy based on fact or theory?

        • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 17:40
          +1

          @mgh4me: I was asking you to clarify what it was you were suggesting - is God trying to trick us by scattering apparently ancient dinosaur bones about for us to find? Why would he want to do that?

          I'm not attempting to disprove God. What I am objecting to is the attempt some Christians are making to extrapolate 'data' from the bible into some kind of refutation of the best approximations science can currently make of the age of the earth and the wider universe.

          If you want to believe God made it rain for you that's fine, but claiming scientific validity with a theory like the YEC is like me saying that it's raining in the Hunter because my neighbour conducted a Koorie rain ceremony - it's naive, improbable, scientifically preposterous, impossible to prove and exceedingly tedious for anyone outside the faith (although a Koorie ceremony is a bad example as there are cultural sensitivities to take into account). I dare say it's exceedingly tedious even for many inside the faith.

          Mystical assertions on the basis of a text like the bible (which translation are you using by the way?) are exactly that - assertions based on faith and mysticism. Have at it if it makes you feel good but don't try to pretend it has scientific value because it quite simply does not and you are probably making scores of perfectly nice people cringe in fremdschämen which is a pretty unpleasant thing to do to a person you don't know.

        • mgh4me on 25/08/2018 - 18:59

          @0jay: not claiming it has scientific value but trying to understand why science is held as the only basis of truth. For example there are some who would argue that truth is determined by relativism and social constructivism. For example if a man came on here and claimed he was a woman and there was no scientific evidence to support his claim what would you say to them?

        • 0jay on 25/08/2018 - 19:23
          +1

          @mgh4me: "For example if a man came on here and claimed he was a woman" what is it exactly you're trying to suggest here?

          Are you questioning post-modern ideas around gender fluidity and socially constructed meaning or is it about a seemingly dubious claim made anonymously on the OzB forum vs any available evidence to the contrary outside of a strong intuitive conviction that the claim is likely to be false?

          In the first instance you're conflating the empirical or 'hard' sciences with philosophy/social sciences which are very seperate disciplines.

          In the second instance that's a problem you're unlikely to be able to resolve and I'd suggest you not concern yourself with the person's gender at all.

        • mgh4me on 25/08/2018 - 19:51
          +1

          @0jay: You lost me. I was just making the point that science is not the only basis for truth. Your making the claim that science disproves that God created the cosmos and I am countering that by saying that your claim based on theory holds no more weight than my view that God sent rain when people prayed or any more evidential than the gender fluidity advocates view that a man can claim to be a woman without empirical evidence.

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