Gym membership, I WANT MY MONEY BACK!

johndowy on 26/11/2018 - 14:34

So, I like a lot of people, I had a gym membership but haven't been to the gym in a few months.

Today, 26/11/18, I sent them an email to cancel my membership and they replied and said that they have closed my direct debit account.

Now, the fees work like this according to them. Its prepaid in advance monthly fee of $250! deducted on the 20th of each month. So 20th of November is paid for the month of December 1-31.

They said that my fees for December have already come out and they have a no refund policy or something that apparently I signed on when I join.

I want, at the very least, my money back for December as I don't want to go back there and haven't been back there in months but they keep taking out my money.

What can I do?

Health & Beauty

Comments

  • chumlee on 26/11/2018 - 15:57
    +2

    The gym will be sad to lose another sucker

  • Godric on 26/11/2018 - 16:00
    +1

    Let's compensate you the difference with bargains

  • tsunamisurfer on 26/11/2018 - 16:17
    +20

    Not only did the OP sign up for $250 / month gym, he hasn't even been going at all.

    Forget about the month of December…what about all the other months you lost?

    The person you should be shouting to is the guy in the Mirror.

    • John Kimble on 26/11/2018 - 16:26
      +14

      What's Michael Jackson got to do with this?

    • johndowy on 26/11/2018 - 23:12
      -1

      I guess I'm not that entitled. I'm just asking for December.

    • Avacardooo Rayy Mee on 28/11/2018 - 20:39

      Thought the same thing………………….

  • Imhereforcomments on 26/11/2018 - 16:32
    +2

    Cut your losses and let your friends/family use it for the remainder perhaps? $3000 gym fee a year lasts me 10 years at my gym.

  • foxmulder on 26/11/2018 - 17:50

    I'm pretty sure op meant for $25 per month?

  • armdrags on 26/11/2018 - 18:25

    Contact your local bikies.

  • jjjaar on 26/11/2018 - 18:56

    My gym is the same.

    They were very clear when I signed that this would be the case. There is no way I could have assumed otherwise. Even had they not said anything, the contract was very obvious.

  • orangetrain on 26/11/2018 - 19:47
    +6

    $250 per month = $1500 per year. Unless you're getting gold silk towels, please hand in your ozb card.

    • John Kimble on 26/11/2018 - 19:48
      +2

      For that price I want someone doing my exercise for me!

      • lauzza on 26/11/2018 - 22:05
        +2

        OP forgot to mention The Rock is a personal trainer at their gym and there is also Morgan Freeman to motivate you. Well worth the $250/month membership. /s

        • philmccracken on 27/11/2018 - 17:24
          +1

          Get busy lifting, or get busy crying (bout your over priced gym membership)

    • orangetrain on 26/11/2018 - 19:54
      +8

      $3000 per year*.

    • johndowy on 26/11/2018 - 23:12

      $3000 a year.

      • greater mimic on 27/11/2018 - 00:08
        +1

        Jesus, mine is only $540 a year and I actually go

        • Dr Techno on 27/11/2018 - 21:05

          even that is too expensive for me. I run around the block :P

          • greater mimic on 27/11/2018 - 22:44

            @Dr Techno: I run around the suburb too, but need the gym for the weights 💪

            • Dr Techno on 28/11/2018 - 14:20

              @greater mimic: my high school friend had 2x metal buckets filled with concrete with a metal bar stuck between the 2. Ghetto weights I guess :P

    • SKiZO on 27/11/2018 - 21:38

      How many months are in your calendar?

  • peanut48 on 26/11/2018 - 19:51

    For everyone wondering which gym - sounds like F45 or similar. And they are good for certain people who hate regular gym.
    (I used to be a member but quit after I did the maths on how many classes I missed vs actually attended)

    • Jugganautx on 27/11/2018 - 02:06

      x fitters… more money than sense lol

      • peanut48 on 27/11/2018 - 19:23

        To each their own, the same reason why there is a market across all price points for most things.

      • josho9 on 29/11/2018 - 00:20

        I have seen quite a few very fit people who swear by F45. They get results.

  • Jugganautx on 26/11/2018 - 19:53

    You're lucky they didnt turn around and get you to pay the rest of your yearly amount to get out of your contract.

  • cyrax83 on 26/11/2018 - 20:25

    Jesus my 24x7 fit n fast founders membership is $7.95 a week / $32 a month.

    $250 wtf?

  • p1 ama on 26/11/2018 - 22:35
    +3

    So, I like a lot of people, I had a gym membership but haven't been to the gym in a few months.

    No, most people don't hold onto their memberships if they're not going to the gym. Cancel or suspend. Most people aren't paying $250 per month for gym either. So no, there is nothing "like a lot of people" about this at all.

    Today, 26/11/18, I sent them an email to cancel my membership and they replied and said that they have closed my direct debit account.

    Great.

    Now, the fees work like this according to them. Its prepaid in advance monthly fee of $250! deducted on the 20th of each month. So 20th of November is paid for the month of December 1-31.

    It's irrelevant. You paid for gym 1 - 31 Dec and you are allowed to use the gym 1 - 31 Dec. That's the agreement.

    They said that my fees for December have already come out and they have a no refund policy or something that apparently I signed on when I join.

    You don't. You're paying for the right to use the gym which you have. It's not the gym's fault you don't want to go.

    I want, at the very least, my money back for December as I don't want to go back there and haven't been back there in months but they keep taking out my money.

    Then you should have cancelled months ago…

    What can I do?

    Go to the gym or write off your losses.

    • Entropy Sky on 26/11/2018 - 22:59

      Luckily, there is people in ACCC who do go after company with bad practices regardless contract.

      I hope those aren't the people being called incompetent by certain ACCC employee who spent alot of time on OZBargain.

      • HighAndDry on 27/11/2018 - 02:04
        +1

        There's nothing wrong with this contract - it's a standard, paid in advance no refunds deal. As bog standard as you can get.

        Say you buy a $10 prepaid mobile sim. Do you think you'd be entitled to a refund just because you're not going to use it?

        • Entropy Sky on 27/11/2018 - 10:48

          Not sure how you compare it to prepaid sim card.

          If anything close, it post paid service outside contract.
          They dont charge 10 days prior, they charge after you have used the monthly allowed. Plus 14 to 28 days to pay.

          Prepaid dont take DD.

          • HighAndDry on 27/11/2018 - 10:51
            +1

            @Entropy Sky: What are you talking about? OP is paying in advance by DD, which is why I compared it to a prepaid sim card. OP prepaid for December gym membership, that's what he wants refunded.

            • Entropy Sky on 27/11/2018 - 10:54

              @HighAndDry: What are you talking about?
              Prepaid Sim card dont take DD, and you have 30,60,90, 12 months to activate, then use it.

              • HighAndDry on 27/11/2018 - 10:55

                @Entropy Sky: Sure, but the buyer still isn't entitled to a refund, which is what OP wants. And OP had entire months to cancel if he wanted, literally all it took was an email. That's no harder than going in and buying a prepaid sim.

              • Bargain80 on 27/11/2018 - 12:01

                @Entropy Sky: There are prepaid sim cards that take DD, for your information.

      • p1 ama on 27/11/2018 - 02:38
        +1

        Luckily, there is people in ACCC who do go after company with bad practices regardless contract.

        What's the bad practice here? You bought a service, you paid for the service, the service is being provided.

        Think about it from the other point of view. A gym can only have a maximum number of members, what if another potential client was turned away because of OP signing on?

        Also, I think you misunderstand. The ACCC doesn't go after "company with bad practices". They enforce (amongst other things) the ACL.

        • Entropy Sky on 27/11/2018 - 10:50
          -1

          I see who really is the incompetent employee here.

          • HighAndDry on 27/11/2018 - 10:56
            +1

            @Entropy Sky: You can't call someone 'incompetent' just because they are telling you stuff you don't want to hear… and happen to be in a position to actually know what they're talking about.

            E.g. this case: OP was able to cancel with a simple email. They're just not entitled to a refund for services they'd already prepaid for. I've no idea why you think this is somehow outrageous.

            • Entropy Sky on 27/11/2018 - 10:58
              -1

              @HighAndDry: That "incompetent" comes from a AMA.

              • HighAndDry on 27/11/2018 - 10:59
                +1

                @Entropy Sky: Okay, let me rephrase:

                You can't call someone 'incompetent' just because they are were telling you stuff you don't want to hear in their AMA… and happen to be in a position to actually know what they're talking about.

                ?

                You're apparently faulting the gym for OP agreeing to pay via DD. Or OP forgetting to cancel. Or OP not cancelling before the last DD was taken out.

                Where in that is the gym even the slightest bit at fault?

                • Entropy Sky on 27/11/2018 - 11:06

                  @HighAndDry: Which part did I fault the GYM?

                  I personally detest the practice, and believe it should be sought after.

                  And please, stop being awhite knight. If she can call her collegue incompetent, either true or opinion. Then can others.

                  • HighAndDry on 27/11/2018 - 11:13
                    +2

                    @Entropy Sky:

                    Which part did I fault the GYM?

                    In your comment here, you say:

                    Luckily, there is people in ACCC who do go after company with bad practices regardless contract.

                    Unless you were talking about some other company when in a thread about this gym, I assume you're saying this gym is the "company with bad practices regardless contract (sic)".

                    I personally detest the practice, and believe it should be sought after.

                    And you still haven't given a reason for why, but at this point I probably won't care since your reasons for other opinions don't make much sense.

                    stop being awhite knight. If she can call her collegue incompetent, either true or opinion. Then can others.

                    Had no idea p1 ama was a girl. I'm actually pretty sure they're a guy, but either way, wasn't a consideration and wasn't relevant to any of my comments. And I assume they know their colleague personally, which is why they can have an opinion.

                    YOU on the other hand, have still given zero reason why p1 ama is apparently incompetent, other than that you (wrongly I might add) disagree with them on an issue that they would know far better than you.

                    Anyways, I see you're a lost hope, don't bother replying, I don't intend to keep this conversation going.

                    • Entropy Sky on 27/11/2018 - 11:20
                      -3

                      @HighAndDry: Not going to anyway, since I am "lost hope" because I have a different view.

                      • p1 ama on 27/11/2018 - 21:03
                        +2

                        @Entropy Sky: Since you're personally attacking me, would you care to actually give some evidence to back up your claims?

                        You're saying I've called other people incompetent. I've never done that. If you have any record of me doing that, please let me know so I can understand where you're coming from. On top of that, I think it's silly and immature to be attacking my character or ability simply because I'm telling you something you don't want to hear or something you might disagree with.

                        I'm not one to get into these sort of attacks, but you're the guy who thinks they are entitled to a warranty claim because dust got into their camera after cracking their screen (https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/389495), who thinks that a speed camera after a new speed zone is a "trap" (https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/383805), and who posted a YouTube video of a student kneeling outside a school onto a public internet forum (https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/380883). I don't think you are in any position to claim anybody is incompetent.

                        To address your broader point, regardless of how you might feel, you are wrong about this. You are making the argument that the ACCC can "go after" the gym due to OP's issues. That is completely false. It is no different to if OP called the police and told them about the situation. This is completely a civil matter and if OP disagrees with what the gym has done, then OP can take it to a tribunal or court.

                        You fundamentally misunderstand the role of the ACCC. The ACCC is an economic regulator with some limited enforcement power. This means that they can impose penalties on companies who break the law. For example, the ACCC has fined MSY because MSY broke the law. This has nothing to do with any customers that MSY might have screwed over. The fine is not redistributed to the customers. Any gripe they have with MSY is a civil matter. Also, don't bring ACCC employees into this and question people's competence. The personal views of employees are irrelevant in what the ACCC is allowed and not allowed to do.

                        If this is still unclear, let me give you an example which will help. Suppose you are speeding and hit another car. The police come and fine you for speeding (because you broke the law), nothing to do with the other driver. Now, the other driver may choose to lodge a civil case against you for damages, nothing to do with you speeding. They happened to occur together here, but it is possible for one to occur, but not the other.

                        • Entropy Sky on 29/11/2018 - 12:59
                          -2

                          @p1 ama: Thank you for digging up grave post to prove your superiority.

                          I do hope the unfair practice do cover bad practice. Since fairness is subjected to interpretation.

                          As you competent or not, personal attack or person opinion.
                          I welcome you to serve me a lawyers letter, and I will let a Magistrate decide.

                        • HighAndDry on 29/11/2018 - 15:29

                          @p1 ama: I told you it'd be a wasted effort….

  • amaro123 on 26/11/2018 - 23:10
    +2

    $250 per month for gym is bigger than 80k investment vehicle. You are going to be pretty popular until someone else sets the bar higher.

    • johndowy on 26/11/2018 - 23:20

      It has a lot of other facilities.

      It's more of a full on health and wellness club.

      Gym, pool, spas, massages, sporting facilities (squash, basketball), canteens, etc.

      • kaleidoscope on 27/11/2018 - 07:22
        +2

        Which of these extra facilities did you use on a regular basis?

        • blehgg on 27/11/2018 - 10:57
          +2

          It was a "happy" wellness club

  • centrelink on 27/11/2018 - 00:16
    -4

    Here is what I did, I took out all the money and made it so they could not take money out of my account (this was YEARS ago when I was studying) and they could not take any money out. They tried to pester me for money, but I was nup, I never went so screw paying you. Eventually they gave up and put me on the black list and that was that.

    These days I would owned up to my mistake and pay the whole thing but back in the centrelink days.. nah screw that, I took da riskz0r

    • cainen on 27/11/2018 - 11:13

      Good luck doing this now. The bank will let the account go negative and you'll be up for a $30+ overdraw fee.

      Not that it would help OP's cause anyway as he wants money back that's already been taken out.

      • centrelink on 27/11/2018 - 18:02
        -2

        Maybe he can shut down his account, or perhaps request a "chargeback"

  • gimli on 27/11/2018 - 05:46
    +5

    I call troll post

    • Raihoo on 27/11/2018 - 07:19
      +2

      Couldn't agree more; It's OP's replies that really give it away.

    • DonWilson on 27/11/2018 - 20:07

      I call dwarf post

  • exulted on 27/11/2018 - 07:21

    I've been to the gym around 5 times in the past 3 years. I want my money back

  • DemocracyManifest on 27/11/2018 - 07:31

    Cancel the card, change banks and dispute the transaction saying you forgot about it and it went through, and block their contact number

    • lltravel on 27/11/2018 - 09:38

      yea and ruin your credit.

      • hoey888 on 27/11/2018 - 11:09

        Better yet, report your card/account as lost/stolen.

        Direct debits are all automatically cancelled when your card is reported lost/stolen. Because of this, your will get a new card with new expiry dates.

        Source: Tried to cancel a month to month Fitness First Membership numerous times. This method worked and was alot easier than calling multiple staff to cancel

      • DemocracyManifest on 28/11/2018 - 02:34

        How can you ruin your credit with that, it's not a loan etc. In doubt they will bother recovering the money most orgs just write this stuff off

  • DemocracyManifest on 27/11/2018 - 07:33
    -1

    Bit sneaky though, they would know if you signed in or not surely into the centre and used the facilities.

    • HighAndDry on 27/11/2018 - 10:29

      Lol they're not your parents - you're paying them to have the facilities available for your use, not to track whether you actually use them or not.

  • [Deactivated] on 27/11/2018 - 07:59

    Doesnt fitness first have a Black card club or similar name that is expensive?

  • ChaLuo on 27/11/2018 - 08:53

    I didn't know people pay this much for gym memberships

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 27/11/2018 - 08:55
    +3

    You should go into the gym and have a big cry to the counter staff.

    It likely won't achieve anything but at least it'll get you to the next step in the grief process.

  • tkdbboy on 27/11/2018 - 09:00

    I go to gym and I don't look like Arnie

    I want my money back

    • idonotknowwhy on 27/11/2018 - 09:03
      +1

      Do you even lift bro?

      • tkdbboy on 27/11/2018 - 10:38
        +2

        Chest and bi's supersetted with mirror selfies 5x a week

    • ChaLuo on 27/11/2018 - 12:10

      Arnie in the 80's or

  • HKS on 27/11/2018 - 09:02
    +1

    I work for a major gym chain in Aus and these calls come in every single day. go to the gym ffs, cancel as soon as you want to cancel and do not put it off, you will not get a refund if you wanted to cancel your membership 3 months ago but only did it now. 30mins a day 3-5x a week will benefit your life i guarantee it.

    So, I like a lot of people, I had a gym membership but haven't been to the gym in a few months.

    go to the gym you lazy sod, this is where you idiots go wrong.

    What can I do?

    should've actually gone to the gym instead of being lazy.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 27/11/2018 - 10:08
      +1

      In fairness, it happens so often because your company motto is to sign people up for long term contracts knowing full well the drop out rate is extremely high :)

      Why do you think internet and mobile service providers (except for the dinosaurs like Telstra) have flipped from 12-24 month contracts to monthly no lock in contracts.

      • HighAndDry on 27/11/2018 - 10:30

        Maybe people should have more discipline, or more foresight then. I see nothing wrong with gyms signing up people to contracts those people agree to.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 27/11/2018 - 10:36

          Of course that's true but service providers should have some element of duty of care.

          Buy a $1200 mobile phone contract, credit check.

          Buy a $2500 gym contract, no checks whatsoever.

          • HighAndDry on 27/11/2018 - 10:42
            +1

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: I disagree with both from a consumer protection angle. The credit check is (and should only be) the business making sure they can get their money. If a gym cared, they can do that too, but not to nanny the customer.

            service providers should have some element of duty of care.

            They're service providers, they're providing a service, and they have a duty to provide that service to an acceptable quality - that's the only standard of care they should be held to. They're not your mum or dad. They're not your pastor, they're not your nanny, they're not your caretaker and you are not an invalid.

          • p1 ama on 27/11/2018 - 21:21
            +1

            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: No, the difference is that when you sign up to a mobile phone contract, you're getting a phone upfront (so it's basically a loan) and you're paying in arrears after you use the service.

            Signing up to the gym would be like a prepaid service with direct debit. You are paying in advance for a service. Therefore, your credit is irrelevant because the gym is never in a position where you owe them anything.

            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 10:33

              @p1 ama: Did I mention a mobile phone contract wherein a phone is included? No.

              Signing up to a gym SHOULD be like a prepaid service with direct debit. Unfortunately most are a like a Telstra 12-24 month contract, with direct debit, with 50-100% cancellation fees. It's their business policy.

              @HighAndDry all service providers have a duty of care. It's a legal obligation.

              • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 11:15

                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                Unfortunately most are a like a Telstra 12-24 month contract, with direct debit, with 50-100% cancellation fees. It's their business policy.

                CAN PEOPLE READ THE OP?

                The gym allowed OP to cancel immediately on receiving their email. There's no "12-24 month contract" involved here. And even if there were - people, adults, are expected to be able to read. If they can't, I, again for the nth time, don't have any sympathy for them.

                @HighAndDry all service providers have a duty of care. It's a legal obligation.

                Don't throw (random, unsubstantiated) legal jargon at me and expect it to mean anything. As I said: They're service providers, they're providing a service, and they have a duty to provide that service to an acceptable quality - that's the only standard of care they should be held to.

                • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 12:12

                  @HighAndDry: Can you read? I was referring to your comments that you "work at a major gym chain" and "calls come in every single day." You contributed to the conversation with your own anecdote so surely it is fair that we may discuss it, right?

                  Does your gym offer contracts? You've avoided the question so far.

                  As for your comment regarding duty of care. It's not unsubstantiated at all.
                  https://www.accc.gov.au/business/treating-customers-fairly/c…

                  "Businesses that supply services guarantee that those services will be:
                  provided with due care.."

                  • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 12:29

                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                    Can you read? I was referring to your comments that you "work at a major gym chain" and "calls come in every single day."

                    Wait, where did I say I work at a major gym chain?

                    Are you sure you can read?

                    Just to drive home the point, you're quoting this:

                    "Businesses that supply services guarantee that those services will be:
                    provided with due care.."

                    And I said previously, this:

                    …and they have a duty to provide that service to an acceptable quality…

                    Seems like the ACCC agrees with me.

                    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 13:01

                      @HighAndDry: ROFL, you dipped in and answered my response to HKS. Thus the confusion. Let HKS respond I have no idea why you jumped in for him.

                      Also, "care" does not relate to acceptable quality. Read the link. You are twisting ACCC's carefully drafted advice.

                      • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 13:09

                        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Feel free to quote from your link to support your arguments. I'm not going to start arguing with myself, because so far what you've quoted agrees with me.

                        Edit: Snark aside, post-paid contracts are a form of credit (legally, iirc), and that's why there are those additional requirements, because Telstra et. al. are basically counted as not just providing telecommunications services, but also providing credit to their customers. A pre-paid, albeit monthly, gym membership is not any form of credit, and so there are no "duty of care" or "due care" that would otherwise attach to credit contracts.

                        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 13:16

                          @HighAndDry: "….acceptable quality" is under the subject line "Goods", not "Services"

                          Did you even read the entire page? It's not difficult.

                          Let me help you here. Scroll further. Keep going.

                          Consumer guarantees applying to services
                          "provided with due care AND skill"

                          Let's grab the common definition of 'care'
                          "the provision of what is necessary for the health, welfare, maintenance, and protection of someone or something."

                          Gyms have a duty of care to their customers.

                          • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 13:17

                            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                            Gyms have a duty of care to their customers.

                            Wait, I'm not disputing this. But this "duty of care" only applies to providing gym services. Not making sure that the customer can budget properly. Gyms aren't in the business of providing financial advice.

                            (Also, I was quoting from your comment, not from the link.)

                            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 13:29

                              @HighAndDry: Not true.

                              Someone falls and gets injured at the Gym. Who's duty of care is it?

                              • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 13:31

                                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Yes - that would be part of providing a safe gym environment which would be part of providing gym services in general. I've never disagreed on this point.

                                I thought you were talking about performing credit checks on customers:

                                Of course that's true but service providers should have some element of duty of care.

                                Buy a $1200 mobile phone contract, credit check.

                                Buy a $2500 gym contract, no checks whatsoever.

                                ?

                                • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 13:47

                                  @HighAndDry: I have always been talking about duty of care. I have always been discussing that a business model of signing up consumers on long term contracts is a poor reflection of the business. The drop out rate is high. Consumers get locked into something they may be required to pay for a very long time.

                                  You pinpointed my credit check example. I gave that example as a credit check will provide some limited protection that the customer can afford said product or service - this flows both ways - business gets their money, but also that the customer can AFFORD the product or service.

                                  I emphasized that Gyms likely do not do perform this. Signing a customer to a long term contract, that they possibly cannot afford, is not providing a duty of care. This used to happen all the time in the telecomms industry and consumers could easily seek assistance to break long term contracts. This has since been completely overhauled and contracts will have separate handset and service components. This helps protect the consumer if they need to end the contract for whatever reason.

                                  You just have to google any major chain of Gym in your region and see most, if not all, options are for long term membership contracts. There is a reason for this - and the reason does not benefit the consumer.

                                  • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 13:52

                                    @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Right - okay so I'm back to my original point, "duty of care" is a really wide term. There's no blanket "duty of care" - every individual or business will owe different duties of care to different people depending on their position. For example, a homeowner will owe a duty of care to guests that their property is safe, or drivers on the road will owe a duty of care to other users of the road to drive in a responsible manner, etc.

                                    So here, a gym has a duty of care to provide a safe and reasonable level of service as a gym. A gym does not have any duty of care to make sure that their customers can afford the contracts they sign, being that would be effectively financial advice, which gyms do not offer. Which is why this:

                                    I emphasized that Gyms likely do not do perform this. Signing a customer to a long term contract, that they possibly cannot afford, is not providing a duty of care.

                                    Would be incorrect - there is no such duty of care owed by a gym to its customers.

                                    Telstra owes this (or a similar) duty of care because post-paid contracts are legally classified (again, iirc, I'm not doing legal research for OzB comments) as providing credit, and in their position of providing credit to customers, they do owe a duty of care to ensure the customer can afford it.

                                    (And just for clarification again - a gym offering a pre-paid contract is not classified as providing credit.)

                                    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 15:02

                                      @HighAndDry: Anything to back up your bolded statement? Or is it just your mere opinion?

                                      • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 15:04

                                        @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: Usually the onus works the other way - if you're arguing that they do owe that duty of care, you need to substantiate it first. Again, "duty of care" is not a blanket term that includes everything in all cases.

                                        If you do, then I'll (maybe, probably not) go to the trouble of finding evidence to negative that position.

                                        But I'm hoping common sense can prevail here: a post paid contract is a credit contract, therefore there are credit-related duties of care. A gym contract (prepaid) is not, therefore there isn't.

                                        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 15:14

                                          @HighAndDry: I substantiated with links to the ACCC. You disagreed, mainly because you read the wrong section of the ACCC advice (or confused the definition of a good versus a service) and now because you just say so. Your turn.

                                          Have a read of a random major gym's terms and conditions and finance/direct debit terms and conditions (usually palmed off to a 3rd party AFS licensed entity to minimize exposure) to see they have already considered exactly what I'm trying to point out to you.

                                          • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 15:19

                                            @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                                            I substantiated with links to the ACCC.

                                            Okay, from that link

                                            Businesses that supply services guarantee that those services will be:

                                            provided with due care and skill

                                            What part of a gym's services under a prepaid contract include the giving of financial advice so that there is a duty of care in relation to the customer's finances?

                                            • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2018 - 17:59

                                              @HighAndDry:

                                              1. Who says it's a prepaid contract?
                                              2. They DONT make any enquiries, thus the entire point of my argument in the first place.
                                              • HighAndDry on 28/11/2018 - 18:10
                                                +1

                                                @Typical16-bitEnjoyer:

                                                Who says it's a prepaid contract?

                                                Gym contracts are always paid in advance, like OP's - money taken out on 15th of Nov for month of Dec. The customer never owes the gym any money, which is why it's not a credit contract.

                                                They DONT make any enquiries

                                                Because they're a gym, not a financial adviser and not giving credit. There's no duty here to make enquiries, which is my entire point.

                                                To try and clarify - this is why your comparison to a postpaid phone contract breaks down. In a post-paid contract, the customer owes money to the telco every month and so the telco is offering services on credit, meaning they're also offering credit services, and so owes a duty of care in providing that credit service (i.e. they have to perform credit checks, etc).

                                                None of the above applies in a gym where the month's fees are taken out in advance - the customer never owes any money, the gym is not offering services on credit, and so doesn't have any kind of credit-related duty of care.

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