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    • torrenting from one source with consistent speeds vs torrenting from multiple sources with sometimes inconsistent/capped speeds.

      • Replied to wrong post :/ or did you edit?

        • edited, sorry.

          used incorrect wording which I fixed, which I'm guessing is what you were replying to.

          • @Kozhutki: Yeah I think so. My reply no longer fitted. Now I have nothing to add haha

  • I was so close to joining usenet but I joined private trackers instead and now I can't look back

    Better than usenet in almost every aspect, including the main one - digital content

    • For scene content usenet can't be beaten.

      Also with torrenting, even private torrents you are still distributing copyrighted material, which is illegal.

      • Nah even for scene private trackers are better because of higher retenntion

        And the content on usenet is illegal too btw. Just because you aren't technically uploading bytes doesn't mean it's legal

        • +1

          Actually

          Distributing copyrighted material is what is illegal.

          Downloading is not a criminal matter, but a civil matter. And in court, there is not a lot they can ask of you.

          My usenet provider has 10 years retention and things get reposted all the time.

          Its a rare time I can't find something and when I do, private trackers either don't have it, or have no seeders and you have to request a seeder.

          I find DDL sites have more rare content then private torrents.

          • @samfisher5986: When they distributing copyright content, it's the uploading of torrent file on the website, not seeding in client

            Agreed with the civil part

            10 years retention is actually quite low. That's just 2008, which is quite recent in scene history. This is absolutely nothing compared to the best private trackers out there

            What private trackers are you using?

            • +1

              @Sopzo: You are completely wrong.

              Seeding in the client is distributing copyrighted material.

              In fact, simply being in the swarm is distributing copyrighted material in copyright eyes.

              Here is an example news story that can explain it

              https://torrentfreak.com/futureshock-uk-teenager-jailed-for-...

              • @samfisher5986: That falls under civil, same as usenet. I'm talking about the criminal part

                • @Sopzo: Being in a swarm of a torrent is a criminal offense.

                  The only way to use usenet in a criminal way is to upload files, which you should not do.

                • +2

                  @Sopzo: That's a common misnomer.

                  With Usenet you're downloading only, not uploading, so you are at worse "theft" but even that's hard to argue because the owners haven't lost anything, apart from income, which is a civil matter. So it's usually a civil offence to recoup "lost income", which in this case is $30 or so for a copy of the content.

                  With Torrents, you upload as you download. So it's been deemed you are distributing copyrighted material (often to 100's or 1000's of others, thus it's on a commericial scale)

                  from https://aic.gov.au/publications/htcb/htcb003

                  Civil or criminal proceedings?
                  The conduct of a civil or criminal investigation is complex, time-consuming and expensive. Court action is usually reserved for persons or companies that are major offenders or who are at the core of a network of offenders. Breach of copyright is a criminal offence if a person makes, sells, trades or imports an article that infringes copyright in circumstances where they knew or ought to have known of that infringement (s 132(1) Copyright Act 1968). It is an offence to simply distribute an infringing item for the purpose of trade, or to an extent that 'affects prejudicially the owner of the copyright' (s 132(2) Copyright Act 1968).

                  So there is more of a case for a criminal offence when using torrents, as it's quite clear under the Copyright Act.

                  It costs lots of money, so it's rarely gets taken up as a criminal matter (usually reserved for physical material distribution - pirate DVDs). On the civil matter, because you're accused of the more serious Distribution Of Copyrighted Material, they can claim to have lost say $30 for even person you seeded your torrent to. So if you're in a swarm of say 1000 others, they can claim $30 x 1000 = $30k in lost revenue. It's also very easy to gather evidence (join the swarm and note the other IP addresses in it). Then here's the wonders of law, they rarely take people to court, just send them a "fine" (speculative invoicing), because law's not about whose right & wrong, it's about whose got the deepest pockets. So they take you to court claiming $30k of lost income, they offer to settle for $5k . A smart person settles as it'll cost them less then in lawyer/QC fees, let alone costs & restitution if they lose. The company gets some money, they get publicity (hoping it'll deter others).

                  To get the same evidence from usenet. They'll need to prove you downloaded the material (I'd guess such efforts would require some illegal activity), then in a civil court, they could claim $30 lost income against you. Even to send you the speculative invoice, it would cost them at least 100x as much as they'd get.

                  Anyway that's why torrents are more likely to get you into trouble. If you're happy with your private tracker/swarm, then good for you. I'd use a VPN so it's that one extra layer of protection they need to unravel.

                  • @DisabledUser35983: " I'd use a VPN so it's that one extra layer of protection they need to unravel."

                    Tell me, what private trackers do you use?

                    • @Sopzo: I haven't for years.

                  • @DisabledUser35983: I'm not sure how usenet and torrenting materially differ in the interpretation of the law. By importing copyrighted material using usenet you still have the potential of falling foul of criminal copyright distribution. The difference is the ease/cost of compliance and enforcement between the two methods.

                    There's no point raising speculative invoicing in Australia in relation to copyright infringement. The Dallas Buyers Club case set a judicial precedent that the courts will not tolerate speculative invoicing.

                    • @twjr:

                      I'm not sure how usenet and torrenting materially differ in the interpretation of the law

                      easy, Downloading is theft at best. Torrents is distribution AND theft. It's a simple, but big difference.

                      The "speculative invoicing" sending out a "fine"/invoice was frowned upon by a judge in the NSW courts. It doesnt stop them offering a settlement and laying out why you should take it, which is just the next step and quite legal.

                      • @DisabledUser35983: I don't believe either situation is theft under the Western Australian Criminal Code (I'm not certain of other States and I can't be bothered reading their codes as they are not applicable to me). As you have already said, both are copyright infringement. In principal, uploading packets via torrents may meet the definition of copyright distribution. In practice, I would be very surprised if the DPP pursued cases against people torrenting. It's possible but unlikely at the moment.

                        If you read the ruling on the Dallas Buyers Club case that is exactly what the Federal (not NSW) Judge ruled. Essentially they were not able to pursue damages beyond the loss of revenue of a single copy of the film.

                        Again, I'm not arguing that usenet is less safe than torrents. In principal this is clearly true. In practice, until the DPP starts prosecuting torrent users I don't think there is much to worry about.

              • -1

                @samfisher5986: I'm not going to dispute that usenet is more secure than torrents however you need to stop spreading disinformation. The "news story" you linked is not a real situation, hence the disclaimer "Note: This is a column, not an actual news story.".

                Can you please provide an example of Australian State or Federal prosecutors laying criminal charges against a torrent user?

                • @twjr: Oh my god you can't read can you

                  Read my post again it clearly says "example news story"

                  Just wow.

                  • @samfisher5986: I can read perfectly well. Seems to me like you are projecting. Have you actually read the column? The piece you linked to is opinion, a "what if" scenario. Yes, it is plausible, given the laws enacted in the UK, but it's still not an actual news story. Further, while it is a pretty chilling dystopian story it is not currently relevant in an Australian context.

                    Again, can you please provide an example of Australian State or Federal prosecutors laying criminal charges against a torrent user? I don't think there is such a case and I would be surprised if there will be in the future due to the cost of compliance and enforcement.

          • @samfisher5986: I don't think they know exactly how Usenet works. More than 95% of Usenet files would have higher retention than torrents

            • @4agte: Or they don't know how to use a decent indexer.

            • -1

              @4agte: I know how it works, you don't have to make claim like that just to prove your point.

              Well, if you want to believe usenet is better, than good for you. The only usenet I'll ever use is the one provided by HDB

        • +1

          Your first sentence clearly shows that you don't even use Usenet. You can't compare what you don't use. That is what people call bias.

          Usenet copyright material is handled via DCMA. That means you will never receive an email from your RSP/ISP asking to stop what you are doing. With Usenet just use SSL if you are worried about prying eyes.

          Retention on torrents can be from minutes to forever. However, I'm pretty comfortable with the 7+ years I'm seeing with Usenet

          • @4agte: I used it, just not on my PC. That's why I was going to go for it on my own PC but went with private trackers instead

            The difference in safety between usenet and private trackers is neglegible

            Retention of some type of stuff is even 0 in trackers, that's not my point. It's the overall retention.

            Also, my friends are comfortable with sites like TPB, rarbg etc, which is fine. But that doesn't mean public and private trackers are on the same level. Same with usenet and private trackers

            • @Sopzo: If you think committing a criminal offense for $500-$5000 per movie and committing a civil offense $20 per movie is the same, you are crazy.

              • @samfisher5986: I don't even know why you're talking about safety here. As I said, the difference is neglegible and a non-factor

                • @Sopzo: As I said

                  If you think committing a criminal offense for $500-$5000 per movie and committing a civil offense $20 per movie is the same, you are crazy.

                  That is safety.

                  • @samfisher5986: It doesn't matter because you're not getting any letters

                    • @Sopzo: So the legality of something isn't relevant because ISP's don't send letters here?

                      No.

                      • @samfisher5986: I had to switch to a more practical aspect because you couldn't be convinced with factual non-practical one

                        • @Sopzo: And your practical aspect failed.

                          • @samfisher5986: Where? How?

                            • +1

                              @Sopzo: If something is illegal is illegal.

                              If there is a far less risky way to do something, then its the obvious choice.

                              • @samfisher5986: It's not far less risky though

                                • +1

                                  @Sopzo: I've literally mentioned multiple times as to why.

                                  At this point you really need to do some research as you aren't willing to take my word or use simple logic.

                                  • -2

                                    @samfisher5986: Actually, you haven't in context to private trackers

                                    I'm sorry but you're the one here who doesn't know about this topic and is unwilling to use simple logic.

                                    • @Sopzo: Private trackers are just less public to copyright eyes, there is no difference to legality.

                                      • @samfisher5986: We're not talking about legality anymore, we're talking about the practicality

                                        Private trackers being less public to copyright trolls is a HUGE understatement, so much that it's just inaccurate.

                                        • @Sopzo: No, we are talking about legality.

                                          Plenty of private trackers have been targeted in the past.

                                          You are justifying something very illegal because there is a lower chance you will get caught.

                                          Silly logic.

              • @samfisher5986: Can you please provide evidence of this "criminal offence for $500-$5000" vs "civil offence $20"? Village Roadshow were planning on sending out infringement notices with penalties of between $100-$200 late last year. I am uncertain whether they have followed through on that threat as there has been no news since the initial proposal in August-September 2017.

                • @twjr: the pricing doesn't work like that.

                  Civil = You pay for what you pirated, not that it would ever happen as the cost to take you to court will be higher then the $20 movie you pirated.

                  Criminal = You pay for what you pirated, and for every person you distributed part of the movie to. So $20 * 500 peers = $10000, for example. Depends how long you ran the torrent for.

                  In Australian court it hasn't really happened at this point, but that doesn't change the legality.

                  • @samfisher5986: That's not how it works in Australia. Your "criminal" example isn't how penalties are meted in Australia. The Australian Copyright Council has a pretty good rundown of copyright infringement in Australia.

                    • @twjr: Actually it is

                      Its buying a pirated cd from a seller vs being the pirated cd seller.

            • @Sopzo: Copywrite Holders and their investigators don't use private trackers, lol. The more popular the private tracker the bigger the risk.
              Use a small private tracker, the content range and seeders isn't there, (except for new releases, which everyone has anyway).

              • @DisabledUser247345: Agreed with 1st statement

                2nd- It's both popularity and ease of getting in. Both IPT and PTP are popular but IPT is much more riskier

                I'll use my popular, big and hard to get in trackers.

              • @DisabledUser247345: You do realise that PassThePopcorn has long been a target due to the enforced seed ratio.

        • What private tracker do you use?

          • @spuderump: Basically every top one - PTP, BTN, HDB, TIK, BIB, GGn etc

            • @Sopzo: Just seeding and being part of torrent swarm is no crime if you limit your upload to zero, technically Sopzo is right and a lot of people just assume you must upload in P2P torrents.

              • @ozdesi: Actually no this is a common myth by people who don't understand what bittorrent is.

                The bittorrent protocol forces you to upload, you can limit the speed all you want, but the packets will still be there that will make it a criminal offense.

                The people who have been threatened with court for their criminal offense, they did not care how much they uploaded, simply how many people were in their swarm and uploaded packets to, which is generally hundreds.

                As I've said before.

                The copyright companies simply sit in swarms for both public and private trackers and just collect ip address's so they can start threatening people.

                They basically ignore Australians at the moment, but that does not change that you are distributing copyrighted material and they can take you to court if they wanted to.

                • @samfisher5986: depends upon what those packets contain to legally pursue the case in court, if a packet on its own sent to another IP can't be streamed to a video or meaningful content then there is no case to pursue

                  • @ozdesi: ozdesi, you should really research on how it actually works.

                    You are going to be taken to court for being in the swarm, simple as that.

                    They are not going to ask what the packets contain.

                    If you have 1 million dollars and want to fight them in court with lawyers, only to probably lose anyway because you are still guilty.. then you can do that.

                    The fact is that you are distributing copyrighted material.

                    • @samfisher5986: Do you know anyone taken to court for uploading torrent and lost the case?

                  • @ozdesi: that's how they get you.

                    Not many case make it to court, because the legal costs & potiental ruling against you & associated costs often way out weigh the Offer To Settle that the litigant offers you as a deal.

                    e.g. if they offer you a $5k and we will drop the case, you'd be silly not to take it as your legal costs (unless you actually represent yourself) will be much much more then that. A QC charges more then that per day.

              • +2

                @ozdesi:

                Just seeding and being part of torrent swarm is no crime if you limit your upload to zero, technically Sopzo is right and a lot of people just assume you must upload in P2P torrents.

                Sopzo uses private trackers which enforce a ratio, which means you must seed or be banned.

                There's no way torrents can compare in safety to usenet. You are distributing your IP address to everyone in the swarm and easily traceable. If you think your private tracker is immune to being prosecuted, all it takes is an undercover DMCA rep or film studio to be granted membership and they can infiltrate your entire private tracker.

                This doesn't happen with usenet. You are not uploading. And its speed does not depend on seeders. With very old or niche torrents, you'd be getting very slow speeds at best, that is if there are any complete seeders at all. Good luck with that. You are not broadcasting your IP with usenet, and no one knows what you are downloading, including your ISP.

                • @lostn: what rights do DMCA have in Australian jurisdiction?

                  • @ozdesi: In practice none yet (the TPP copyright section was watered down, especially after Donald refused to ratify it). In theory they could ask to extradite you if you were charged under a criminal matter.

                    But our federal copyright act allows for criminal prosecution and that's up to $115k fines &/or up to 5yrs in jail. Unlikely at the moment here in Oz, but you never know when things change.

                    • @DisabledUser35983: The thing is there is nothing stopping you and a group of others being the first in court.

                      Its nearly happened in the past.

                  • @ozdesi:

                    what rights do DMCA have in Australian jurisdiction?

                    Maybe it won't scare you, but it might scare off the Americans seeding your downloads, or the private tracker itself…

                    You're not the only factor in the equation.

                    Have you heard about Nintendo's lawsuit against rom sites for millions? They have effectively shut down every ROM site distributing Nintendo roms, including the ones they did not sue. Just the threat and risk of it was enough to get them shut down, or delete all Nintendo roms.

                    DMCA might not take you to court, but they can scare away the system that you are part of. And then you're done.

                    It's not implausible.

                    I myself don't use torrents because alternatives simply carry less risk. By less, I mean zero.

    • I'm on a private tracker too - any incentive to switch? From reading above, it seems like old files is better on usenet & potentially automation with apps like sonarr on xpenology/synology

      Most private trackers have scene content too, although mine is missing a lot of music.

      • I can't really encourage you to switch if it is working for you. Yes usenet can be great for old content and works well with programs like sonarr/radarr. Definitely don't switch for music. Torrents are much better for that.

      • Totally depends upon the trackers you're using. I'm comparing this deal to the top trackers. If you're not in the top ones, you might wanna consider this

        Old files are definitely better on private trackers but again, I'm comparing with the top trackers

        • Private trackers provide content 100% if there is at least one seed, Usenet content may trigger PAR repairs not assuring full integrity of data depending upon content and Usenet server location etc.

    • Yes I do find Usenet better for physical content though 🤨

      • Which private trackers are you using? I should have clarified in my original comment that I'm comparing to the best private trackers

    • The problem with private trackers is they usually require you to keep close to a 1:1 ratio or better. Impossible for home ADSL, my download speed is 20x my upload speed. Instead of paying for a NNTP service you pay for a seedbox. At least at 2 higher NBN tiers have decent upload speeds, but in many areas NBN is not available

      • There are different trackers for everyone. Join something like MTV, which is ratioless

  • I was so close to joining usenet but I joined private trackers instead and now I can't look back. Better than usenet in almost every aspect, including the main one - digital content

    You really need to use both to true respect their individual benefits. I can think of huge advantages and disadvantages for both. I use both and for my needs I find usenet works better for me.

  • I havnt been into usenet groups for ages.
    I originally signed up to internode for its free usenet provider.
    But usenet always seems to have large chunks missing.
    What do people think of internodes usenet ?

    • Go get a proper provider. To maximise the benefits of Usenet you want to have things automated like Sonarr and Radarr. Add your shows and movies and like the software do the rest. The programs will grab it before it gets taken down or grab the very next release. I never miss content.

    • Looks like internode, stopped thier usenet servers Jan 2018. I told you I hadnt used it for a while.
      I've got a VPS server in russia which I run all my torrenting off anyway.

  • +2

    my $0.02 worth - if using any nzb indexer then it may well be useful to pay for access to a premium usenet host. I pay $95 USD for 1 year, unlimited access to usenetserver and they have everything that's been uploaded on usenet for the past 3779 days// yes I've downloaded entire seasons of err.. ISO images from 10 years ago, with no missing parts.

    the secondary thing with premium usenet hosts is that they usually encrypt their data so you don't need to VPN.

    the tertiary thing nice with premium usenet access is you download at your maximum bandwidth with every. single. file. it's not like torrents were you need to have lots of seeds usually to have a fast download and if it's an older file with less seeds.. then you're stuffed and usually just a few KB/s trickles.

    searchable data base as well - demo here - https://www.usenetserver.com/global-search-demo

    • I pay $48 USD per year with newsgroupdirect, 10 years retention.

      • Except they are/can be, quite fast to DCMA items, like all Highwinds indexers.

  • what is this website?

  • i am a noob, can you guys tell why this is used? What is it?

  • Thanks, found cat/dog/monkey really dropping the ball lately.

    • Monkey is closed now

  • Thanks good to have another quality indexer.

    Now just need a usenet.farm subscription special for my backfill

    • Consider Usenet Express instead. Same backend but better local cache.

  • @Sammyboy I don't think the minimum for Amazon US gift cards is $25. I was able to purchase one for $20 just now and am using it for the NZBgeek subscription.

  • Better than nzbs.org? Any benefit to joining if someone were to have access to that site?

    • Not enough people here are on nzbs.org to be able to offer an opinion I'd say

  • can anyone recommend an usenet server to use with this? any on sale?

    I can't automate radarr/sickrage with only having indexer (nzbgeek), can I? need usenet server as well right?
    sorry for being a n00b

  • I kind of don't like seeing this on ozbargain as geek is very good, this sort of publicity can't be helpful for its longevity.

    • +2

      The people who can do the real damage already know about this. This post doesn't even make a dent

    • +1

      Greedy Capitalists parasistes/rights holders have been DMCAing Usenet post since before Season 1 of Game of Thrones ever aired (hence lots of posts now have obfuscated filenames & titles), and have been harassing NZB indexers for just as long. If you look at a lot of site blocking requests in Australia, a lot of the interdicted sites are relatively new and have yet to become popular. I don't know why the evil Australian government just doesn't ban the internet outright since they so hate the free flow of information and data.

      We need to reform copyright: start by changing it to 10 years from the date of publication. Ultimately, we need to outlaw private ownership of the means of production, including patents and intellectual property.

  • +2

    Thanks kindly, this has stacks more finds and stacks more successful grabs than planet. Just doubled my judge judy collection :-P

  • Damn missed out!

  • OZ… Is not bad either.