Near Accident When U-Ey at The Roundabout

I had near accident when someone making a U-Turn at the round about. In case there is a question, this is a common single-lane small round about usually found in the residential areas. Please ignore the traffic lights and the double-lane in the image.

See this image for illustrations: https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcR-vH…

I was coming in from K, and there were cars on all lanes (A, H and F).
The car on A makes a move with the right indicator turns on. I assumed the car-from-A was heading towards L, so while the car is around D, I made my move towards G from K.
In actuality, the car-from-A is heading towards B, and honk hard on me, and gave me enough shock.

Is it even legal to make U-turn at the round about?
If accident did happen, who is at fault?

Before you say that I have to give way for any cars inside the round about, I don't think drivers (at least in NSW) do that, because if the car-from-A did go to L, I would have been waiting for nothing, and surely would never arrive at my destination.
I only give way to the car on the right or if car from H is giving a right indication.

Edit, there is so much useless comments here. They do not seem to understand my question, they seem to refer to the bigger roundabouts in the image. Please read the whole thing.

Thanks to those who were pointing the rules too, or told me I should hand in my license to them. Because we always drive in the same condition as when we took our lessons and exam. Not when the road is busy. Also every state and countries have exactly the same rules as wherever you are. (sarcasm)

Edit (2): I'm sorry, but I have been observing many cars since I posted this comment to see how many makes a right turn and give a left signal when exiting.

I must have seen over 100 cars in few different roundabouts paying careful attention to the signals, and none give left signal.

I still cannot find the difference between one that is making right turn or U-ey.

Not that I do not believe or appreciate the commenters here, but can anyone explain why not 1 car does that?

Edit (3): from this thread I found two things, one is that most ozbargainers do not care, and they just put unhelpful comments. And surprisingly these comments gets most up voted. Wft do you expect from 'hand me your license'?
For those that gives helpful comments, I thank you, I do believe that in your life you will be more successful than the other ones (not sarcasm).

Two, after checking rules on almost all states, I am shocked that those helpful comments are right. That we have to give left signal when exiting any roundabout. This solve differentiating u turn and right turn. Whomever put the word 'if practical' in the rulebook is just stupid. I am shocked that in my life, driving so many years in Vic and NSW, I have only seen maybe 1 or 2 cars that does that, and at that time I genuinely think they made a mistake. I will from now on do this religiously and hoping that others do the same.

Comments

  • +201

    Doesn’t matter what drivers do the rule is give way to anyone on the roundabout.
    /endthread

    • i always wonder is it even applicable in busy roads as there is always a car in a roundabout. in bigger roundabouts at some given time there are multiple cars at same time. when i am driving in a roundabout i always look right and if there is no car coming from right or there is no car giving right signal to turn in my direction i move forward because i know the car in front have to give me way as i am in their right. However, before reading comments here, i was unaware of the rule that one should give a left signal before leaving roundabout. In real scenario i have never seen this happen unless someone is actually turning left. It's no excuse to not follow the rule but I believe we need to be made more clear and aware of these rules. at-least i learned something new about roundabout rule and will try to apply it while driving, might take time to get used to it but i'll get there.

      • +3

        If it is busy, you find opportunities when it is safe to do so. It's really not that hard. As a "qualified" driver (using this in terms of legality only), you're expected to have the knowledge and skills to find safe opportunities to enter a roundabout.

        • You wrote a 1000 word report cos you had a near accident.

    • +8

      Why is the thread still ongoing? This is the definitive answer.

      Give way to ALL on the roundabout already. Not the ones on your right only. ANYONE on the roundabout first.

      • +6

        Only because OP is stubborn.

    • +6

      People get confused at roundabouts because they try to think of them as one intersection. The best way to think about roundabouts is to think of them as a circular one-way road which has multiple T-intersections on it.

    • +2

      This thread should not have had more than one top level comment.

    • +1

      Hilarious that your comment received 1 neg vote. Hmmm who could it be from…

  • +87

    Yes you can make a u-turn at a roundabout in NSW, and if there had been an accident you would be at fault for not giving way:

    https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/road-rules/rou…

      • +57

        It applies to all roundabouts - including the bit about signalling left if practical

          • +53

            @[Deactivated]: I drive in peak hour Sydney metro traffic every day. I have been driving in Sydney peak hour traffic for 20 years. Don't worry about getting honked. Follow the road rules and make sure that other cars in the roundabout are actually exiting before you enter - your safety is more important than worrying about honks.

            • +5

              @wizzy: I wish I can upvote you +1000 if I could.

              The problem with honks is that for some drivers, it makes them anxious/panicky and leads them to make a bad decision resulting in an accident. I've seen this scenario being played out multiple times on the road.

              I've always ignored the honks at a roundabout. I've gotten honked before for stopping at a roundabout only for the car in the roundabout to actually do a U-turn. If I had gone into a roundabout, I would most certainly have caused an accident and would have been totally at fault.

              I remind myself that drivers who honked me from behind are totally unaware of the traffic situation in front of me. They cannot totally see what I see.

              This is why if I am unsure of the traffic situation unfolding in front of me, I never proceed. The driver behind me is not going to pay if I get into an accident.

              There are a lot of idiot drivers on the road - especially in Sydney. I've seen impatient drivers who speed through roundabouts (without slowing down prior to entering) and proceeded to honk drivers who are already in the roundabout.

              It pays to drive defensively and stay safe.

          • +6

            @[Deactivated]: I live off of a busy roundabout (there a few in my area) and regularly drive during peak. You ALWAYS give way.

          • +2

            @[Deactivated]: It doesn't matter if everyone else breaks the law too. It doesn't matter if they honk at you.

            Best not to admit in writing that you break the law regularly, even if you think the law is wrong.

          • +1

            @[Deactivated]: troll post surely

      • +2

        I have never seen anyone in 20 years living in NSW giving left signal when exiting round about:

        I only do this if it's a double lane roundabout like in your diagram

        • -4

          That I agree. But I'm referring to single-lane small roundabout.

          • +7

            @[Deactivated]: The road rules apply, regardless of whether anyone actually follows it. I agree it is very rare to see people indicate off a roundabout, but you are supposed to.

        • +18

          A friend of my son failed his driving test on this. I always signal left when exiting a roundabout (unless it is a small single lane and I am going straight through). You are wrong in all your arguments. Time of day makes no difference, nor does the amount of traffic. Just because most people do it, doesn't make it right or legal and you could be booked for failing to signal or failing to give way to traffic in the roundabout.

      • +1

        Homebush Drive NSW has design fault, the left lane on all double lanes entrance should only allow left turn on straight but this around has different rules on the different entrance, I saw and experienced a lot of near-miss on this one

      • +7

        At what point does a small round become a big roundabout?

        • +4

          Is this another one of your thought experiments?

          I'd say somewhere between this and this.

          • +4

            @[Deactivated]: Nope. It's purely a question of how does one make a decision to follow which rule if there are two sets of rules based on roundabout size.

          • @[Deactivated]: I up vote for the first video.

            Excellent driver 😁

        • +2

          Officially, there're no such terms. I consider any roundabout with more than 1 lane at any point of it to be Big, any completely single-lane roundabout to be Small. Further, residential areas tend to have Itty-bouties, and on bigger roads you may find the occasional Gigabout.

          • +2

            @zetapulse:

            Gigabout

            You skipped megabout.

            Gigabouts are also known as gouts.

      • +3

        I don't think this apply to …

        The legislation doesn't care about what you think.

      • It doesn't matter where they start.

        Anyone at position K has to give way to anyone on the roundabout at position J. It also doesn't matter whether they continue on the roundabout or leave at B.

        Indicators are just that, indication. While they are supposed to indicate, if you rely on them to do so you will get in MANY accidents.

      • good lord. To think that you've been driving for 20 years just sends shiver down my spine.

    • -1

      What if the Car A hit the bumper of Car K then Car A is at fault.

      • +3

        No, because car k did no give way to car a that was already on the roundabout.

        • -5

          How to you proof that the Car K didn't give way, remember Car A hit the back of the Car K.

          • +2

            @Kamsi: the fact that it happens in roundabout is enough proof that car K didn't give way to car A.

            • -2

              @Bargain80: That's going to be difficult to prove.

              • +3

                @Kamsi: read again my comment.
                If car K give away to car A, then car A won't hit car K.
                if car A is still far away and car K enter the roundabout, then car A won't hit car K.
                the only reason car A hit car K is because car K didn't give away to car A.

                • -7

                  @Bargain80: lol, good luck in defending that in court. Basically, Car K enter the roundabout Car A should give way to Car K, unless Car K was hit at the front then it is Car K fault for not give way.

                  • +2

                    @Kamsi: double LOL.
                    read the rule again. any car entering roundabout should give way to car already in aroundabout.

                    what country do you live in?

                    you and OP are the reason why I had a couple of near miss in roundabout for failing to give way.

                    • -8

                      @Bargain80: Triple LOL :)

                      If Car A hit the back of Car K, it means that Car A was not able to control his vehicle in order to stop the collision.

                      You shouldn't blame the other drivers for you misunderstanding of the road rules.

                      • +3

                        @Kamsi: I don't understand your logic.
                        If you're travelling through an intersection on green light and then suddenly there's a car from the left running on red light so you hit the other car.
                        It will your fault then because you cannot control your car?

                      • +1

                        @Kamsi: Who was on the roundabout first in your example?

                        The example given by the OP car A was in the roundabout so K must give way. If A is waiting to go and K is On the roundabout, the A must give way.

                        • -7

                          @Euphemistic: If the Car K enters the roundabout while Car A still inside roundabout if it were to collide with Car K on the bumper ( back side) then the fault is with Car A.

                          I don't know how much explaining I need to do.

                          • +5

                            @Kamsi: No. If A is on the roundabout then car K did not give sufficient space for A to proceed safely - which is what giving way is. Car K should not enter the roundabout unless they can proceed without interrupting the travel of any other vehicle in the roundabout.

                            If you pull up at a give way sign, then go and a car hits your rear bumper from a direction with no give way sign who is at fault? It’s the same as your roundabout example.

                            Go hand in your licence.

  • +62

    You would be at fault.

    Yes, you can u turn at a roundabout, heck you can drive around it seven times if you want.

    You need to give way to vehicles on the roundabout. The only people that drive on as you did are the ones that don’t give way to drivers doing u turns.

    Go check the rules. It’s simple. Give way to vehicles on the roundabout.

    If you don’t know this maybe you shouldn’t be driving. (But I do agree that too many drivers don’t know how to use roundabout properly, especially the indicating bit)

      • +7

        Take a close look at the indicators on the green car in this diagram. Also note:-

        Making a U-turn: When you use the roundabout to make a U-turn on your approach signal right from the right lane, stay in the right lane, but signal left before exiting into the right lane.

      • +5

        You came to ask a question. You’ve got an answer - one that went against you.
        Yes most drivers probably don’t indicate when leaving roundabout.
        But making a u turn at roundabout is not illegal.
        And it’s your responsibility as a driver to make sure of your own safety so you should give way.
        The issue could be two fold. Normally drivers not indicating and you not knowing u turn is permitted.
        In this case the driver has indicated so only issue is you not knowing.
        Please learn the road rules and move on.
        You can debate all you like here but it doesn’t change the fact.

      • +11

        You can work it out, someone will go first, same as at a four way stop sign.

        I recall ONCE that at a local roundabout 4 cars entered at the same time and all four cars went around at the same time. It was perfect use of a roundabout. sadly only once in too many years of driving.

        • +4

          Were they all Isuzu D-Max Utes?

          https://youtu.be/Sz1ETcEBLoU

        • +2

          I have been involved in a similar situation to which you recall.
          I wanted to get out and high five everyone.
          Felt like I was part of the Holden Precision Driving Team.

        • +1

          This is what makes roundabouts much more efficient than 4 way stop signs.

          Mythbusters did a segment on this as well and found that roundabouts(traffic circles) were something like 25% more efficient at traffic throughput.

      • +8

        If all make a move at the same time and bump each other, who is at fault?

        No one will be at fault because everyone will be entering the roundabout at the same time at a similar speed. It will be like a carousel with no collisions.

      • +2

        If all 4 arrive at the same time then they can all go safely at the same time and no one needs to give way.

    • But only seven times, eight is where they draw the line.

  • +3

    Perfectly fine, signal left when ready

  • +71

    Get off the road, You are a danger to other drivers.

    • +1

      Or just remove the "Honk If You're Horny" sticker from the bumper.

    • Apparently lived here for 20 years!
      Hard to believe.

      • +2

        Apparently lived here for 20 years!
        Hard to believe.

        Perfectly believable

  • +70

    Is it even legal to make U-turn at the round about?

    hahahha are you serious? Hand you licence in if you think you can't.

      • +33

        Yes

      • +15

        Absolutely you can.

      • +4

        I did this a week after getting my red P plates in 2001. In front of an unmarked police car waiting to get onto the roundabout. Similar size to the one you're describing, actually - right here. $168 and 3 demerit points for negligent driving. Rightly so, since I was doing it maliciously and not because of some sort of issue finding my exit.

        As for the other questions you did want an answer to:

        1. The cars that have entered and are using the roundabout have immediate and irrefutable right of way over cars entering the roundabout. You can only enter the roundabout by giving way to any cars on the roundabout. That means they can absolutely U-turn, as they have right of way over cars that haven't entered the roundabout yet.
        2. You would have been 100% at fault in any reading of the situation. It's a failure to give way.
        3. Yeah I indicate left when exiting. Losing 3 points off my licence sort of forced me to drive like an angel, and that habit's hung around. I am the exception, I can tell you that much - the rule's been in about 20 years now and it's maybe 5% of cars max that actually indicate correctly to exit.
        4. "Have you actually drive during busy periods, try 8-9AM or 2-5PM. Do you live in busy area? Nobody give way to cars inside the round about in my scenario." - Yes, a majority of people drive during busy periods. Coincidentally enough, that's the exact thing that makes them busy periods. Everybody gives way to cars inside the roundabout, or they're not using roundabouts correctly. It sounds like you might need to either admit you were wrong, or read up on how to use roundabouts effectively to understand why you're wrong. Either way, I'm afraid you're wrong.
        • +1

          have immediate and irrefutable right of way over cars entering the roundabout

          Except that under the law no one has right of way ever when driving. In practice it means the same, but the rules are about who gives way, not who has right of way. The cars on the roundabout do not have a rule that they need to give way, The rule applies to cars entering the roundabout.

          • @Euphemistic: That's fair - your definition on that is truer and cleaner than mine.

        • -2

          I'm sorry, but I have been observing many cars since I posted this comment to see how many makes a right turn and give a left signal when exiting.

          I must have seen over 100 cars in few different roundabouts paying careful attention to the signals, and none give left signal.

          I still cannot find the difference between one that is making right turn or U-ey.

          Not that I do not believe or appreciate the commenters here, but can anyone explain why not 1 car does that?

          • +3

            @[Deactivated]: No need to be sorry.

            People don't follow and/or know all the road rules. I thought having started all this you would appreciate that fact :) this post is a great example!

            The only really bad thing would be not to learn from it, knowing we don't know it all can make us better drivers, there is always room for improvement.

            I think the left blinker to exit came in when I was getting my license around 2002 - if that helps.

          • @[Deactivated]: Not many people follow the rule about signalling left. They probably don't know that it is the rule.

            In order to tell if someone is turning right or doing a U-turn, I wait to see if the nose of their car is beginning to straighten out in order to exit. If it doesn't straighten, then they are making a U-turn. There are other ways to judge, but this is what works for me. This takes an extra couple of seconds and occasionally the person behind you might give you a honk - ignore them.

          • @[Deactivated]: how and where do you observe? If you're in the car waiting to go into roundabout, it can be difficult to spot the left signal because of the angle and the timing.

          • @[Deactivated]: It's not up to you to remember each and every car and where they came from, and determine if they have passed one exit, three exits or ten exits, trying to establish whether they are turning left/right/going straight or u-turning. That is irrelevant. What is important is what are they going to do at the next exit that they approach. This is where the left-turn signal requirement comes from. It is to let people know that they intend to turn off the roundabout. Otherwise, assume they are going to continue on the roundabout.

            Some drivers assume that they don't need to because they are driving along a stretch of road that just looks like a normal straight road, but it has a roundabout attached to its side. In this case, most people would drive straight through treating it like a through road. In reality they are supposed to indicate but the majority don't have a problem with this because they think it is obvious what they are doing.

            Dealing with a roundabout — regardless of size — is easy. Just imagine the round bit is a straight piece of road. When you approach it, you are entering a T-intersection. The same rules apply. You have to give way to vehicles on the upper part of the "T". Don't pull out in front of them because you expected them to turn off. The only difference to a T-intersection is that the road loops back around onto itself.

      • Can I just keep round and round inside the roundabout?
        Don't answer that, it's rhetorical.

        Yes you can! It's a great way to fill in time while you work out which way you should go.

      • +15

        Ummm you can surrender your drivers licence at any time, so yes head in to RMS and grab a ticket, hand your licence in on the spot. (remember not to drive there yourself, as you won't be able to drive home)

      • +9

        They definitely have that facility. Surrendering your license won't be an issue at all and is common need for people with medical issues, injuries or simply age. The big concern is that you think driving during busy periods somehow excuses you from the road rules or that someone honking their horn at you from behind because you are obeying said rules should be a concern.

      • +1

        yep lack of understanding you are.
        glad that I don't live near you.

      • Lol on ozbargain if you don't know ALL the road rules you gotta give up your license

        • +4

          this is hardly an obscure rule. It is one of the basics and if he doesn't know that or thinks busy roads are a reason to not obey then wonder what other rules he thinks are optional.

          • @gromit: yep. even a few news website has published the news about the rules several times over the years.

      • How did you even het your license without knowing the road rules?

  • +28

    "Have you actually drive during busy periods, try 8-9AM or 2-5PM. Do you live in busy area? Nobody give way to cars inside the round about in my scenario. I get a honk from behind if I do."

    Seriously? Since when were busy periods an excuse to not follow the road laws? Get off your high horse m8

      • +2

        Yes and yes.
        I'm from Melbourne.

  • +21

    Whoever taught the OP driving should have their driving instructor license taken away.

    • +17

      No, the OP should have their license taken away.

        • +1

          Ummm you can surrender your drivers licence at any time, so yes head in to RMS and grab a ticket, hand your licence in on the spot. (remember not to drive there yourself, as you won't be able to drive home)

        • They definitely have that facility. Surrendering your license won't be an issue at all and is common need for people with medical issues, injuries or simply age. The big concern is that you think driving during busy periods somehow excuses you from the road rules or that someone honking their horn at you from behind because you are obeying said rules should be a concern.

  • +1

    so while the car is around D, I made my move towards G from K.
    In actuality, the car-from-A is heading towards B, and honk hard on me, and gave me enough shock.

    You must've entered soooooo slow into the round about for A to catch up. You want to stay in the high risk area long? Perhaps if you entered and exit at normal speeds, it wouldn't be a near miss?
    You can do u-turns in round abouts, provided the other car is in the right lane.

  • +1

    Before you say that I have to give way for any cars inside the round about, I don't think drivers (at least in NSW) do that, because if the car-from-A did go to L, I would have been waiting for nothing, and surely would never arrive at my destination.

    You have to give way to any cars inside the roundabout. You don't need to wait for literally every car to exit the roundabout.

    Btw I've signaled left a few times. When it's practical, of course.

  • +16

    Did you look for the least representative image of a simple one lane roundabout?
    If you wanted labels you could have just drawn a circle in mspaint.

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