I'm Moving to Sweden!

The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 13:03
Last edited 08/05/2020 - 13:03

Remember that week where life was still normal, but Italy was getting smashed and people were starting to wake up to the fact that COVID-19 was a serious threat…?

That's the week my wife and I accepted jobs at an English speaking public school in Sweden! Starting in August.

We're both teachers and wanted a new challenge/adventure before we have kids (both in our late 20s). We'll be heading to the city/town of Eskilstuna, about an hour west of Stockholm. Honestly, the reputation of the school we're heading to is a lot worse than the schools we're at now + the pay is about 60% of our current salary… but… carpe diem… I guess (lol)!

We weren't quite sure we'd actually be able to go… but we've secured flights, residency + work VISA for Sweden and the Swedish Embassy assures me I'll be fine to get in. Sweden's policy on COVID seems pretty lax… might be a good thing! Still waiting on the Aussie government to approve me to go… but I think I meet their criteria for being able to leave. We've resigned from our current jobs, so we're kinda screwed if not.

Why I am telling you all this personal info?

Well, I really feel like a part of the Ozbargain community, so I wanted to say goodbye (at least for a few years!)

But more importantly (lol), how will I keep up the good deals in Sweden?

What's your advice on the country? Any opinions, ideas, resources to share? Words of warning?

Travel Sweden

Comments

    • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 13:11
      +8

      Yes, there is a global pandemic… but I'm not going to let that stop me! 0.3% death rate in Sweden and they didn't shut down the economy that much.

      • ssquid on 08/05/2020 - 13:18
        +29

        Uh, it's closer to ~0.3% of their entire population. Not just the ones who were infected.
        Sweden stats:
        Population: 10.2m
        COVID-19 infections: 23918
        Deaths: 2941

        Compare that to Australia, which has more than double their population… they're not doing well.

        • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 13:22
          +1

          Yea a 0.3% death rate… per capita was implied. Most of them are elderly anyway, so not a start for me to worry about personally due to my age.

          0.6-0.9% of people die every year anyway. Most of them are elderly too. I'm not concerned.

          • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 13:45
            +9

            @The Wololo Wombat: Why neg me? Honestly lol.

            • ozhunter on 08/05/2020 - 14:13
              +44

              @The Wololo Wombat: Because you aren't in a frenzied panic about potentially getting covid.

              • PlanetOfTheShapes on 08/05/2020 - 15:07
                +37

                @ozhunter: Any attitude other than fear or panic about corona should be discouraged apparently, even though the estimated infection fatality rate for those under 60 is 0.05%.

                Some people genuinely think that the only socially responsible thing to do is to make others as scared as possible so they'll obey restrictions. The idea that people could be relaxed about their personal risk, while also obeying the restrictions because it's the right thing to do for more vulnerable groups doesn't seem to occur to them. Personally I think this belief says more about them than the character of humanity more generally.

            • burningrage on 08/05/2020 - 15:17
              +4

              @The Wololo Wombat: I gave you a +

              You should not be penalized for being honest.

          • Nutrino on 08/05/2020 - 15:03
            +4

            @The Wololo Wombat: Love your view of the world…

            • PlanetOfTheShapes on 08/05/2020 - 15:12
              +10

              @Nutrino: It's actually pretty rational. If you're not in a vulnerable group your personal risk from covid is really very low.

              • May4th on 08/05/2020 - 19:34
                +21

                @PlanetOfTheShapes: i think people need to put things into perspective, but saying "covid only kills old people" is dangerously understating the threat - it kills 10x as much as the flu, and flu can kill young people. it is now the leading cause of death in the US over any other medical cause affecting the young or old.

                if I told you you have a 1 in 300 chance of getting hit by a truck and dying if you went to that pub tonight would you go?

                • Scrooge McDuck on 09/05/2020 - 01:52
                  +3

                  @May4th:

                  if I told you you have a 1 in 300 chance of getting hit by a truck and dying if you went to that pub tonight would you go?

                  Heck yes! Pubs have been closed for almost 7 weeks and I'm itching to go.

                  I'd take 1 in 30!

                • PlanetOfTheShapes on 09/05/2020 - 10:21
                  +2

                  @May4th: Where did I say covid only kills old people? The estimated IFR for those under 60 is 0.05% or 1 in 2000. I think that counts as a very low risk. Personally I wouldn't let it stop me from embarking on a potentially life changing experience like moving abroad, although maybe I would if it was something like going to the pub tonight :)

                • The Wololo Wombat on 09/05/2020 - 11:16
                  +7

                  @May4th: Problem with this pub/skittles analogy is that you are comparing a single event (going to the pub, eating skittles) to the statistics taken from the chances of getting sick over serval months… which of course, contains MANY single events.

                  The analogy doesn't hold up to scrutiny… it's like saying someone who owns a car and drives to work every day has a 1/10,000 chance of dying in a car crash over the course of a year… then suggesting that a SINGLE trip also has that same 1/10,000 chance.

                  Let me give another example. Condoms have a 98% effectiveness. That doesn't mean that if you use a condom there's a 2% chance you'll get pregnant from a single act of sex… it means if you use condoms every time you have sex, there's a 2% chance you'll get pregnant in a year…

                  When you factor in my age, location in Sweden, fitness etc, you find that it's maybe 1 in 10,000 chance of death (over the course of a year). Plenty of things in life have that chance of killing you, so why should I put my life on hold for COVID-19?

                • holdenmg on 09/05/2020 - 16:30

                  @May4th: Wait… do I get hit by the truck before (or after) the Beer thing?

            • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 15:13
              +5

              @Nutrino: Is this sarcasm, or do you like how I look at statistics objectively and make informed decisions? lol

          • capslock janitor on 09/05/2020 - 11:49
            -1

            @The Wololo Wombat: I can already see this being most controversial comment in next Stats update lolol

        • Cheeper on 08/05/2020 - 13:25
          +4

          Thats why I posted the link for him. I'm sure he knew there was a global pandemic.
          Aust deaths per 1m 4, Sweden deaths per 1m 301.
          One thing about living in another country is it makes you appreciate Australia more, it did for me :-)

        • Rumstein on 09/05/2020 - 10:32

          Australia has double the population, but sweden is half the size of NSW (Population ~7.5mill). The density is so much higher and so the transmission rate would also be much higher.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/05/2020 - 04:11

          3000 out of 10m is 0.03%

      • MojoMiwo on 08/05/2020 - 17:50
        +12

        If you look at Australia's data 7000 infections with 6000 recovered and 97 dead.
        Because most of the 7K have recovered we don't have to wait for the non-recovered to die or recover. It takes 2-4 weeks for death to occur.
        So 97/6000 = 0.16 or 1.6% death rate with a funtioning health system.

        I have crunched the numbers from the ABC link bellow comparing age group cases to death rate
        70-80 5% death rate 735 cases and 34 deaths or around 5%
        Younger age groups in the sub 1%.

        This low rate is because our medical system hasn't collapsed. About 10% need some sort of hospitalisation. In countries where it has colapsed they die because there isn't enough medical support so many of those 10% die.

        USA has 120K infections (and many more untested). So if infections suddenly stopped now by my calculations of a 1.5% death rate there will be 180K deaths.

        I didn't know what calling Australia the "Lucky Country" meant till now.

        https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-17/coronavirus-cases-dat…

        • RockyRaccoon on 08/05/2020 - 18:22
          +6

          To sum up

          If the health system can cope the deaths will be limited only to the older persons.
          If the health system cant cope then deaths will increase exponentially, primarily meaning more older (but probably younger than those above) will die.

          Death isnt the only complication, again if the health system cant cope then recovery will be longer for everyone, younger less so, but young do still suffer longer without treatment that can be lacking in an overstreched system.

          And Medical professionals also face the dilemma, do they use scare resources with a younger person suffering pain, but who will survive or on an older (not necessarily old per se) who might die without the ventilator or extra treatment.

          So being young can still be affected, and from personal contacts (overseas) who have been impacted this is quite painful. One wished at points they were dead, because of the pain.

          • MojoMiwo on 08/05/2020 - 19:18
            +3

            @RockyRaccoon: If the health system can cope the deaths WON'T be limited only to the older persons. Younger people also die and because COVID-19 is very
            infectious and many infected don't get symptoms it spread like crazy.

            MERS has a death rate of 35% but because everybody gets symptoms very quickly so infected are easily identified and isolated. Only 858 deaths since 2012.

            • RockyRaccoon on 08/05/2020 - 21:36
              +8

              @MojoMiwo: Agree unfortunately, people associate the word "younger" to mean themselves because they know someone older. Younger isnt really defined, and while deaths are lower deaths do exist. Given my contacts experience, and the one who 'wished" to die at one point of the infection, is what i would call a "younger" person.

              They said its NOT like the flu, its 10 times worse. Clogged up lungs dry coughing that wouldnt stop and the doctors have warned them that they may have long term impacts on their health.

              So people focussing on the death side and thinking they cant die, while correct might also be long term health impacted.

        • Laurenlauren on 08/05/2020 - 21:53
          +7

          Deaths from non-covid illnesses also need to be considered if the healthcare system gets overrun.

          Anyone who has been in the emergency department knows how busy these places get WITHOUT a pandemic. Add in the stresses of a pandemic and there will be many more preventable deaths because resources are spread across more patients.

        • 91rs on 09/05/2020 - 12:36

          "USA has 120K infections" - I think you mean 1.2+ Million (nearly 1.3M) infected (and more untested).
          While thats a lot % of the total population its still a whole lot of people!

  • lewislardboy on 08/05/2020 - 13:11
    +1

    What flights will be operating?

    • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 13:12
      +2

      Emirates is operating special COVID flights

      • lewislardboy on 08/05/2020 - 13:15
        +5

        Repatriation and discretionary immigration are very different scenarios.

        • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 13:16
          +7

          I have a Swedish residency VISA so I'm a Swedish resident.

          • lewislardboy on 08/05/2020 - 13:18
            +2

            @The Wololo Wombat: Ah, you already live there?

            • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 13:20
              +2

              @lewislardboy: Nope! But I have a residency VISA because of my job.

              • lewislardboy on 08/05/2020 - 13:22
                +7

                @The Wololo Wombat: So you're eligible to be a resident; you aren't already one. Exemptions below don't really cater for that.

                "
                However, if you want to leave Australia, you may be able to apply online for an exemption to travel if you fall under one of the following categories:

                -your travel is as part of the response to the COVID-19 outbreak, including the provision of aid
                -your travel is essential for the conduct of critical industries and business (including export and import industries)
                -you are travelling to receive urgent medical treatment that is not available in Australia
                -you are travelling on urgent and unavoidable personal business
                -compassionate or humanitarian grounds
                -your travel is in the national interest.

                "

                this may be the only grey area; up to the gov to determine the definition of 'unavoidable'
                -you are travelling on urgent and unavoidable personal business

                • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 13:25
                  +2

                  @lewislardboy: Yep, that's what I'm applying under! :)

                  • lewislardboy on 08/05/2020 - 13:29
                    +2

                    @The Wololo Wombat: You seem very positive about something that is a very real possibility of not progressing?

                  • eek on 11/05/2020 - 10:07

                    @The Wololo Wombat: Sooo have you managed to secure the travel exemption yet? When are you flying out? I am flying out in 6 days time and submitted the online application last week. Still no word yet.

              • john71 on 08/05/2020 - 17:28
                +1

                @The Wololo Wombat: I'm curious, OP. What do you think 'VISA' stands for?

                • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 18:48

                  @john71: It's a translation of 'photo' from my understanding. Basically an ID lol, but it's used commonly to mean the right to enter, or in my case, the right to work. I didn't google here lol. Enlighten me?

          • virhlpool on 09/05/2020 - 00:40
            +2

            @The Wololo Wombat: Is it like a permanent residency of Australia? How did you manage to get a residency visa straight rather than work visa?

            • The Wololo Wombat on 09/05/2020 - 10:47

              @virhlpool: I'm probably using the word 'VISA' incorrectly.

              I have a residency and work permit - my (Swedish) employer organised it once I got the job.

              • [Deactivated] on 09/05/2020 - 11:54

                @The Wololo Wombat: You're a temporary migrant. When does your visa expire?

    • nikey2k27 on 09/05/2020 - 07:42

      Qatar Airways

  • Hithere on 08/05/2020 - 13:11
    +6

    Börk Börk Börk.

    • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 13:12

      I've heard the food in Sweden is terrible.

      • bdl on 08/05/2020 - 16:23
        +7

        Wait 'til you meet the chefs

        • ssquid on 08/05/2020 - 17:39
          +5

          Bjørk, bjørk, bjørk

      • Rogaor on 08/05/2020 - 19:13
        +5

        Can’t beat their salmon and meatballs…

      • PlanetOfTheShapes on 09/05/2020 - 10:39
        +1

        Gravadlax is amazing. Not sure if it's Swedish specifically or Scandinavian more generally. Also Swedish lollies are really good. I like the pickled herring too. Watch out for the salty liquorice though!

        • The Wololo Wombat on 09/05/2020 - 10:45

          This does sound good! Maybe I need to change my expectation!

      • inconspicuous on 09/05/2020 - 11:55

        Oh man, having lived in Sweden for a while, Australia is paradise for food. Stockholm has a few good international restaurants but not many and often they're really busy.

      • [Deactivated] on 09/05/2020 - 11:57
        +1

        Sweden has one of the highest concentration of McDonald's in the world. Possibly second only to the US.

        Ps: you need to try Surströmming while you're there. It's a rite of passage ;)

        • inconspicuous on 11/05/2020 - 16:55

          In my team at work, only 1/7 people had tried it. I was good to give it as pass.

          • [Deactivated] on 11/05/2020 - 17:04

            @inconspicuous: I actually didn't mind it. If I was hungry and it was free , I would eat it again. I also like stinky, mouldy cheese. Not sure what that says about me…

  • iampoor on 08/05/2020 - 13:12
    +10

    No advice but good luck, make the most of it and enjoy yourself!

  • Sterio on 08/05/2020 - 13:16
    +15

    I hope you’re handy with an allan key.

  • pao2x on 08/05/2020 - 13:19
    +4

    Both of you are young and have no kids, perfect to go to a country that does not lockdown on COVID19. Enjoy

  • Baysew on 08/05/2020 - 13:31
    +1

    Adjö!

  • DuckKnight on 08/05/2020 - 13:36
    +1

    Honestly, the reputation of the school we're heading to is a lot worse than the schools we're at now

    Your wololo powers will change that.

  • Ocker on 08/05/2020 - 13:51
    +26

    Racial (Muslim) problems are a big deal in Sweden and getting worse.

    • brendanm on 08/05/2020 - 16:07
      +5

      Blatant lies, they have integrated beautifully into society.

      • Ocker on 08/05/2020 - 16:25
        +10

        Check your facts.
        The anti-Muslim movement is growing. A favourite food in Sweden is pork and only recently one of the kindergardens took pork off the school meal menu because it was offending the Muslim students.
        https://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2017/12/12/commentary/w…
        https://www.brookings.edu/research/the-rise-of-sweden-democr…

        • brendanm on 08/05/2020 - 16:25
          +6

          Sorry, I was being sarcastic. Hard to convey sometimes.

        • 91rs on 09/05/2020 - 12:47

          Yep also check out the Swedish flag ban in some school(s) as to not upset the new arrivals, also discussion of banning the national anthem (in specific schools I expect) as they didn't want it to cause offence depending on interpretation of the wording.
          Its very sad to see this happening.

    • The Wololo Wombat on 09/05/2020 - 10:49

      Honestly, the bad press in this area specifically made me look at Norway, Denmark and Switzerland first! I'll report back and let you know what's really going on there!

      • capslock janitor on 09/05/2020 - 12:00

        Finland suomi

      • suburbanturnip on 11/05/2020 - 06:31
        +3

        I've lived in Sweden, Denmark and Finland (and speak all these langauges).

        Adault Swedes are much more likely than Australians to have multiple hobbies, that they engage with on a regular weekly basis. One of the best things you should do when you arrive is join some sort of club: I.e. local rotary Club, cross country skiing… there will be quite a lot more available options than you expect.

        Also enroll in the free Swedish classes asap- I think you have a 3 year time limit before you have to pay for them (though I'm not up to date on the current Swedish situation). Swedish is a stupidly easy language to learn for a native English speaker. Just try to focus on pronunciation first, as that will pay off down the track immensly. you will be having solid conversations in 6 months.

  • nomoneynoproblems on 08/05/2020 - 13:59
    +23

    Thought this was a jar jar binks thread ngl

    • [Deactivated] on 09/05/2020 - 12:04

      It could have been one over a decade ago. Lived in France for 14 months , then Sweden and Denmark as an expat. Then back to Australia.

      When we leave for Mauritius, I won't say goodbye.It's a one-way ticket. I'll just deactivate my account :(

    • [Deactivated] on 10/05/2020 - 23:36
      +1

      Did I get negged because I said I wouldn't say goodbye when I leave? When 2 people part, it is the one who is not in love who makes the tender speeches.

  • seraphim2017 on 08/05/2020 - 14:02
    +6

    12.2% of confirmed cases deceased. However, you can't compare as different countries have different test criteria, so countries that ONLY test symptomatic people will not have mild/asymptomatic people in their 'positive' cohort to start with, meaning their cohort is of people with noticeable or significant symptoms. Australia tests a LOT of mild/asymptomatics so our figures are more of a picture (although imperfect). The UK looks to have a massive death rate to positives, esp compared to Germany, BUT may well have simply 3-400,000 mild/asymptomatic carriers untested, which reduces death rate of CASES to a similar ball park.

    Statistics, unless you actually hold an MAE (and din't get it from the internet) and have practical experience in Public health Epi, are like a lamp post to a drunken man, more for leaning on, than for illumination.

    Have a great time in scandinavia, you're young, travel the world while there still is one! :)

    (P.s> Just because Sweden's not formally locked down, their population is a lot less 'arsehole bigot' in general than the average "Westfield floater" Aussie resident so if you applied their strategy here the death toll would be massive, they're just generally less stupid/more considerate without the law having to be hard. jhere as soon as people hear we'll reduce lockdowns next week they're back in the shopping centre (and i mean OLD folks and families of screaming bogans dribling for a McDonalds, not essential trips!)

    • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 15:25

      Good perspective :) Especially the PS part haha! Thanks!

      • RockyRaccoon on 08/05/2020 - 18:36

        just watch out for the Raggare, (raggers)

  • DarthAntz on 08/05/2020 - 14:08
    +15

    I've been teaching english in Japan now for 5 years. I took a similar pay cut, but it was well worth it as the cost of living is much lower, and I'm better off financially as a result. Change is good, and learning a second language is excellent for your brain health. Take advantage of everything that is a lower cost than Australia, such as gym and dental.

    I'm still on ozbargain daily, as its not blocked at work. Forget about any deals in Australia only. I get a lot of ebooks and games from Lysander because of my browsing. I've missed out on posting about 10 deals in the time I've been here due to posting rules from overseas.

    If anything, you'll have hotukdeals to browse. I hope you can share some bargains found on that website here, like many other users do! It all counts towards keeping this a bargain-prevalent environment.

    Good luck and enjoy the new life together!

    • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 15:23
      +2

      Great reply and very helpful! Thanks!

    • May4th on 09/05/2020 - 20:51
      +1

      take advantange of the vpn sales ;)

  • franco cozzo on 08/05/2020 - 14:21
    +4

    But more importantly (lol), how will I keep up the good deals in Sweden?

    svenskbärgən.com

    • bdl on 08/05/2020 - 16:25
      +2

      svenskborkenborkenborken.se

  • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 14:21

    What do you teach? I'm currently studying to be a math and chemistry teacher and would be cool to have the opportunity to work in Sweden sometime in the future. Was the job hard to get?

    • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 15:22

      I am a bio and chemistry teacher :) There's a network of schools that teaches in English in Sweden - not too hard to get - I have some experience teaching, but I hear they do recruit graduates :)

      • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 16:44

        oh awesome, can I ask, how do you find being a teacher? I hear a lot about not being able to properly have a work-life balance and is something I am worried about. What's your experience in this regard? Also, is the curriculum in Sweden much different?

        • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 16:50
          +9

          Man, I worked so damn hard in my first few years.

          Probably took six years to get decent at the profession.

          Personality is a huge factor. You can always see the ‘ideal’ version of your teaching… but if you aim for it straight away you’ll burn out. Some people can’t be satisfied with their performance being less than ideal, so they work way too hard and burn out. Me? I work hard sure, but never past my point of burn out. I see the ‘ideal’ lesson (full of many wonderful resources) as a goal for the future, not ‘this year’. I’m also good at knowing which corners to cut and which administrative responsibilities to shirk (because they are useless).

          Not everyone can do it honestly! My advice to you is just don’t work too hard. If your peers hate you and kids hate you, screw them. Not worth your burn out. Don’t let any kid, parent, boss, college make you think you’re a bad teacher. You do the job you’re paid for with the skills and experience and time you have. Screw the entitled jerks who are so myopic they know better.

          • DarthAntz on 08/05/2020 - 16:54
            +1

            @The Wololo Wombat: This is great advice. I might add that you will use this advice and you wont use it in another country. I was a teacher before moving overseas and I was greatly set back thinking my experiences would help me. It's very different overseas. Your confidence may help, but the different system will be a new learning experience which again will take good time to get used to.

            • The Wololo Wombat on 08/05/2020 - 16:58

              @DarthAntz: Great call :) At the end of the day, I have a passion for teaching young minds, so I love it! Worth the effort and I’ll expect to feel like a graduate teacher again in the new system lol.

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