Another Business Using Our Free Wi-Fi

Bit of a poll based on a moral problem I have.

Business next door to my cafe is using our free WiFi to help run their business. We do not "need" the internet ourselves but we have it to provide internet for our customers to use at an expense to us. We were unaware they were using it until I recently did a password change and a staff member from the next door shop came and asked for the new password.

Is this an OK thing for them to do? It is unlimited FTTC 50/20 so the customers are not really affected regarding speeds.

Am I the idiot for not changing my password enough?

Let me know what I should do…

Poll Options expired

  • 15
    Ignore it, it causes you no harm
  • 33
    Dont let them use it
  • 457
    Ask them to contribute
  • 209
    Block their mac address
  • 5
    Bikies
  • 16
    It was the cyclists fault

Comments

        • +1

          So with that theory I can go to my next door neighbors and just ask them for the password for their wifi to use for free yeah? I mean it's broadcasting and I have a good signal at home, it'd save me $99 a month and well it doesn't cost them anything more if I use it as they're already paying for it right?
          If they don't I could start saying they're bad neighbors to others around us etc.

          It's a pretty tight-arse move and rather cheeky to send staff over for a new password.

          All the comments here about how OP should be careful it doesn't impact his business or reputation are BS, all because someone can't leech free internet!

          Get their MAC and throttle them or block them, make it so bad they don't want to use it.
          Do you even have that many customers using the free wifi?

          • @91rs: OP is giving free access to customers.
            The neighbours are customers, they buy their coffee.

            If at your place your neighbour was giving free access to their internet, I would say yes, use their Internet. In that situation your neighbour would probably be delighted to save you $99. Wouldn't you be happy for the saving?

            But in your example you are pretending your neighbour doesn't want to share and you are just taking. This isn't the case with OP's coffee shop with an Internet service that exists to give away to customers for marketing purposes.

            I don't know why this is so hard for lots of commenters.
            OP pays for Internet to give away to customers. Their neighbour uses the Internet, and is a customer. Their use is not harming OP in any way. Why not give them access and save them going without or paying more?

            If a neighbour wanted to take a drink from your tap, would you really send them down the road to buy water at a 7/11?

            • @mskeggs: There is a difference between a neighbour wanting a quick, once in a blue moon "drink" than a steady pipe supply of water to their premises, which you are paying for.. Too many free-loaders, not wanting to take responsibility and are simply tight asses.. grow up and pay for your own business needs. The cafe is not a charity for other businesses to use, to run their businesses. I would suggest OP to change the password daily and if anyone asks, too many free-loaders keeping the password, remove the free wifi altogether or place the AP further away from their business and limit the power output on it.

  • +1

    Probably be best to talk to them, work out a solution maybe they can contribute paying for the WiFi.

  • +1

    The owner of the WLAN is responsible for their network and have to take reasonable steps to secure it from unauthorized access. That means setting up user id and passwords.

  • on a separate note - does this really give you a return with your actual customers? do people specifically choose your place over competitors for free wifi? i just don't know if it's a genuine value add these days as data has become so cheap most people have plenty with their phone plans…and customers looking for free wifi are usually cheapskates….just look to startbucks and the fact it's always someone sitting there with a single drink for 5 hours using the internet…

    • +1

      Two considerations:
      1) It probably is expected now that most cafes have access to Wifi for customers. While it may not bring more customers in, it will help to bring back repeat business.
      2) It keeps people there longer. If they bring in a Laptop and stay for a couple of hours, they will order more Coffee, maybe a cake, some extras after lunch.

      It won't always work, but that's why it started at places like Starbucks and Mcdonalds, and it's obviously effective enough that the idea has spread to other places like Westfields (along with being able to track the traffic and advertising in that case :))

      • +2

        It keeps people there longer. If they bring in a Laptop and stay for a couple of hours, they will order more Coffee, maybe a cake, some extras after lunch.

        It's that a good thing?

        The turnover for a table with a coffee might be 15 minutes.

        A person with a laptop there for 2 hours buying 2 coffees help doesn't help the business.

        • +1

          No, but for every one that does that, there will be others that purchase food, several drinks etc. As well as that, even before covid, it was rare for me to see any cafe with full tables that needed to move people on and turn them over. at most the ones I see are around a third empty at any time.

          Even buying a second coffee is better than having an empty table for two hours.

    • +4

      COVID times aside, international tourists generally do look for free wifi and it's a good hook to get them in for a coffee and food while they check their socials. If they are staying nearby you'll often get repeat visits for the duration of their stay just because of the internet.

  • +6

    Up to you but I wouldn't be keen. What if they download some pirated movies and you are on the hook

    • +3

      It's free wifi in a cafe. That ship has sailed!

    • this isnt 2001 lol

      • +1

        YOU WOULDN'T STEAL A CAR

        • -1

          lmao imemba dat

          anyway, iTs not st3aling if the door's unlocked, just borrowing it, crashing it into a tree for the cops to find and return it

  • They’ll just pose as a customer and get the password

    • +4

      you just change it a few times a day

      profit

  • +12

    go into router at 1am check mac address and black list mac, (make sure you dont block your own mac haha)

    • Best answer so far.

    • Was going to say the same. Believe you can check mac address and logged on time. So you can see one that's been on for hours and black list.

  • You should be able to look up their devices on your router and here you can blacklist them.

  • +23

    Ask them to order a prepaid coffee card to the value of 10 coffees to go toward monthly internet usage. Each month they need to buy a new card. (And each month you should change the password so they come and get the new card)

    That way they’ll redeem the coffee (and hopefully get hooked and buy more) and still get the wifi.

    Yes 10 doesn’t equal daily usage, but if they’re already using the wifi for nothing and not buying coffee, you’ll be ahead regardless.

  • +9

    and a staff member from the next door shop came and asked for the new password.

    Wow, the audacity.

  • +8

    I get the feeling that this isn't the business using the internet, but the staff. OP talked about Spotify, internet, social media etc. It's likely the staff just connect their own phones to a portable speaker for background music, check for price matches, so it could be the store owner doesn't even realise.

    Honestly, I would be embarrassed if my staff were doing this. Maybe talk to the store owner rather than the staff.

  • +5

    Do they buy their daily coffee from you?

    • Yes

      • +19

        Then I think it’s acceptable. It would have been nice of them to ask first. If you sell them 4 coffees a day at $3.5 that’s $280 per month worth of sales (5 days per week)

        • In a binding contract of course

      • +10

        Since they give you buisness, I'd suggest you set up their own login and password seperate from your guest login for them to use. Tell them you are doing it because appreciate them buying their coffee's from you, but specify it is for their staff only, not their customers to use. If you do this, you can control their usage with speed throttling if necessary, and you encourage them to buy more from you without any added costs to you. I'm not saying them using it without permission was ok, but you can make the most out of the situation without making the other store employees dislike you and take their business elsewhere.

      • +4

        I'd strongly recommend giving them the password with a big smile on your face, this is costing you nothing now and has the possibility of costing you a lot if you don't. Treasure your regular customers, they're the ones that keep small businesses afloat in hard times.

      • I think you should mention this in your original post. If the staff are giving you their daily patronage, this is a very important factor to consider.

        I think what they're doing is sort of acceptable. Some may say that they're not really freeloading if they have paid for it through their "custom" and they likely would not have introspected deeply on the ethics of the whole thing.

  • +1

    Change password to "pɹoʍssɐԀ"

    • +5

      HOW!?!?

      What sorcery is this? Heathen.

      • +6

        Use your phone upside down

        • But then all the other text appears the other way up. Maybe I need a very small mirror.

          Nope, now it's backwards, right way up though.

        • +8

          58008

      • +4

        Set the keyboard language to English (US).

  • +5

    Ok, so what I'd do is this, if you don't have one already, get an AP that allows you to control the transmit power of the WiFi antenna (Ubiquiti APs do this) and set the power level so low that the WiFi doesn't actually leave the area your customers would have to be in.

    If this doesn't work, look at setting up a wifi ticketing system, and put free voucher codes on receipts that your customers can connect and enter the voucher codes. (Ubiquiti also does this for free if you set up a free controller on a windows box or buy a small cloudkey device) you could then also set up a paywall for people that connect that haven't purchased an item.

  • +3

    If it was your home would you be happy with this? If the answer is no then why should this be different? Having access to your wifi could allow them to hack your router or your computer. I’d be keeping myself safe. If they came and asked for your password chances are they have been given it before. However if they get the same access as a customer then you may not want to be stressed by it. Put in controls that limit customer access to what is acceptable - say time limit or speeds etc. I’ve had this before in a business and it wasn’t just the business that was using my wifi it was their staff of over a dozen and their laptops. You don’t know who these people are or what they are up to. In my case they were slowing down the speed and efficiency of the network. They could be downloading child porn which would be traced back to your business and you don’t need that kind of attention or want to enable such activity. Trust me the more access they get the more they will take. My 2c

  • +3

    Be aware that you are on the hook for anything they download, any tracing will lead back to your IP address and you will be the one answering any awkward questions that may arise,,,

    • +8

      How is this different to a customer doing the same?

      • Just saying, the risk is equal across the entire group of users, not every one knows that.

    • +4

      You're not "on the hook" - but you would become involved in the investigation.

      Another reason for an initial landing page that explains usage is logged and that the business cooperates with any law enforcement investigation.

      • +2

        You are absolutely on the hook unless you can prove who downloaded or accessed anything not allowed. If you cannot prove it was not you then you are going to cop the heat.

        • +1

          I agree 100%. It must be fun having all of your hardware taken away and forensically examined because somebody was using your network.

        • Good luck trying to stick someone using that one in court - "I legally and legitimately provide publicly accessible WiFi and do not keep logs or personal details of those who connect."

  • (With poll options that include 'block MAC addresses' I'm not sure you actually needed advice here)

    Sounds like they're buying coffee at least?

    If the service is useful to your customers and lots of folks enjoy it, maybe look at some of the more advanced access point devices: e.g. Ubiquiti has a slew of management options, landing pages (to make it clear there's no implied contract or continuity of service owed), bandwidth restrictions (so their 4K YouTube music streaming doesn't drown your link), and maybe connection timeouts to stop leechers generally.

    I'd suggest (at least) two tiers of WiFi, and hand out different passwords accordingly.

  • -1

    Im all about sharing. Ask them to contribute to the plan! All people who can get each other's wifi should really share resources is they can. Exceptions are ofcourse when you need the bandwidth yourself. But even then you could technically configure your router if you are smart (i wouldn't bother sharing if i had to do that).

    Some families may be streaming multiple video services and that may be an issue but sometimes you can go from 10 to 100MBps for little more. Worth discussing with the neighbours!

  • tracing will lead back to your IP address

    There are apps that can obscure IP addresses. People shouldn’t take their privacy for granted when using the internet and should always conceal the IP address when possible.

  • +8

    I wouldn't let them use it. You pay for it, it's yours. Sorry to sound like a lawyer, but you also need to be aware that if someone in their business is using your internet for nefarious purposes, you could get yourself into trouble. Imagine if one of the staff members of this (cheapskate) company is using your internet for child pr0n?

    Edit: I just read that they buy their coffee from you. OK, create a dedicated guest network which can be logged separately and throttle their bandwidth if required. Tell them that the bandwidth is reserved for you and your customers so you reserve the right to adjust it as you see fit. Seriously, if a biz can't afford internet and wifi they need to have a serious look at themselves.

  • +1

    There’s gotta be a win-win here. There’s nothing more successful than local businesses who co-operate with each other, sharing customers and goodwill. Do they/could they send you business? Do they bring customers to the area who would also use you? There’s a few good ideas above. As part of them contributing to your cost can you promote them as well, say on your coffee cards, or landing pages?
    There’s no real loss to anyone here, it’s just you feel a bit miffed about it - and it would be good to get that fixed. A solution everyone feels good about is all you need.

  • your internet for nefarious purposes

    Internet cafes can have 100s of customers a day. It doesn’t mean that the owner of the business is liable for offences committed by their customers.

    • +2

      This isn't 100's of customers per day, this is potentially one 'customer' committing offences every day. More likely to get followed up than random instances imo.

      • Exactly, one customer for 8 hours every day compared to other customers that connect for maybe 15 minutes .
        One is more likely to be downloading than the other.

  • Option: Ask them to contribute

    It is the fair approach.
    Your customers may be getting slower Broadband because they are using it.

    Fair is fair.
    Your customers "contribute" by being there. Next door doesn't.

    Although it is very valid a previous comment suggesting to allow them to do it as a good neighborly thingy.
    Is that the case? A good neighbor?

    • See thats what I thought but turns out they are buying coffees

  • +3

    What business today doesn’t have their own internet connection? What do they sell?

    • +1

      … oh, watermelons by the side of the road.

  • +2

    Entice them to bring in more customers for you. Make it win win.

    Show ads on their devices. Use an Huawei router probably will do the trick.

  • I wouldn't share the wifi with them even if they offer to contribute (they should in the first place).

    There's a lot of implications that you probably don't wanna deal with, so need to be 100% clear with them that they cannot use your wifi for business purpose.

  • +2

    Just block their MAC addresses

    • This…. and the bonus is they’ll be super puzzled why they can’t connect.

      Otherwise get a Ubiquity USG and one of their wifi access points (about $400 all up) and just generate and print of individually coded one time use wifi vouchers.

  • +1

    If they are buying coffee's and you don't notice it I wouldn't worry too much.
    If it starts to impact you however that's another story. At that point they should get their own connection as sharing can get messy very quickly.

  • Use their PCs for mining option is missing.

  • change the SSID to "5G +VACCINE TEST STATION"

  • -1

    Change the password each night.
    That will throw them off.
    Then ask them to contribute 70% (dont tell them its 70% - tell them its 50%)

  • If its not impacting customers, not impacting your business - then share it.
    Ensure you have the right security policies and make it known that the internet cannot be used for illegal material.

    You will find at some point in the future it will come back to you from that very business as a good gesture.

    If we all blocked internet and closed up like this, we would live i life like zombies.

  • Omg I can’t believe it! I wouldn’t give it to them. Staff then.
    Btw why do you even offer free wifi? I go to a local gym which brings in about 1000 customers and they don’t even offer free wifi!

    • People would start using their phones while taking up equipment, being annoying.

  • Wait. Is this a system that allows you to set limits based on certain conditions? If not, then I would install something like ddwrt and set a daily quota with a landing page letting people know if the conditions.

  • +1

    Easy, have a weekly password change, and make it you can get password on request when you are a purchasing customer. even if they do use it at-least they will be paying you for it

  • -3

    You do realise that IF the other business were to do something illegal on the internet, you would be liable, as the IP can be traced back to you, not them?

    • Shit! somebody better go and tell every single McDonalds, Starbucks, cafe, mall, business with guest wifi, air bnb, hotel, airport and school to stop offering wifi! They don't know what risks they are putting themselves in! Why has nobody thought of this?!?!, none of the thousands of lawyers from the above companies thought of the liability they were taking on?!!

      Or common sense says that the law has provisions in it that obviously cover for this very common situation.

      • -4

        What the OP offers is not "Guest WIFI", it has a password. A typical "Guest WIFI" does not, instead it has a data/time limit and a bandwidth limit.

        Routers also have the option of in-depth logging of guest devices.

        But since the law has provisions, why don't you give me your house keys and I promise nothing will happen ;) the law cant do anything if you willingly share your password.

    • -1

      You are not liable for illegal things other people do.

      • -2

        Wish I had a time-machine, lets just go back to when The Dallas Buyers Club was released and just download that, when you get a letter in the mail, I wont care but you will :)

        • Why would I care if I got some letter in the mail?

          Maybe you didn't follow the Dallas Buyers Club story as closely as you think you did.

          • -1

            @trapper: You completely missed the point.

  • -2

    Irrespective of them stealing your 'free' internet, you should be having some kind of guest portal with minimal identifiable details needed by a 'guest' user to access your internet. At the very minimum this is protect yourself from any 'illegal' activity performed while accessing your internet. Which you are legally liable for.

    • You are not liable for illegal things other people do.

  • +1

    Setup a guest portal with session timeout. Problem solved.

  • You 'could' reroute all their device traffic to wherever you want. ;)

  • +2

    Do they buy coffee from you?
    If they do, they are customers.

  • Now seriously - try this https://qifi.org/

    Print QR code with WiFi settings and you can change it every day/week/….

  • Besides all of those speed limitation method, changing the password to "XXXpleasegetyouownWifi" or "XXXpleaseBuyMoreCoffeeFromUsForExchangeForFreeWIFI" or etc.

  • Do the right thing OP. Cancel your Internet. When the neighbours are forced to get WiFi go over and ask them for the password.

  • Tell them to p**s off and purchase their own Internet unless they're willing to help pay for yours.

  • -1

    If you didn't realise until they made you aware, then what harm does it bring you? Everyone's doing it tough at the moment, why not think of this as helping out your neighbour? Maybe they'll do the same in the future.

    • Everyone's doing it tough at the moment

      These guys are not doing it tough.

  • Back when https is not that popular you can make the internet upside down :

    http://www.ex-parrot.com/pete/upside-down-ternet.html

  • Are you sure it's the business using, it not just staff member using it on his phone?

    • That’s what I am thinking, staff just wanting free wifi for phones etc so they don’t use their mobile data.

  • +7

    This joke might give you some inspiraction:

    A guy walks into a bar and asks “ What’s the WiFi password?”

    Bartender: You need to buy a drink first.

    Guy: Okay, I'll have a coke.

    Bartender: Is Pepsi okay?

    Guy: Sure. How much is that?

    Bartender: $4

    Guy: There you go. So what's the wifi password?

    Bartender: You need to buy a drink first. No spaces, all lowercase.

    • +1

      I don't get the joke. Is Pepsi not a drink?

      Edit: oh lol i get it now

    • +1

      I like how this joke is more expensive than the one posted earlier $3 vs $4…..

      • +1

        I had to add the Australia tax ;)

  • You’ve mentioned staff buys their coffee from yours. If it’s just staff members leeching internet off from yours on their personal devices i guess it works with your policy no? If you have reason to believe their business’s computers use your wifi you can formally ask them to contribute.
    else just limit internet per connected user 😊. good luck

  • +1

    I'd just block them, no its or buts. As you stated it's for customers only.

    And shit, if they don't come to your cafe which is next door then you know what they think of your services.

  • -1

    If they use eBay on a shared wifi it’s quite dangerous. eBay is known for just banning accounts linked to same IP address without any thought process. Well that was 10 years ago, who knows what they do now.

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