Individual Who Bought My Car Never Transferred It out of My Name, Received Two Fines and Apparently Its Too Late for Me to Act

Lhelpisneededurhere on 28/09/2020 - 15:08

Hi.
I am just scouting for places for someone to give me advice or help. ive seen help fourms on this place before but i just used it for deals but now i am in a predicament.

I sold this car in december last year in melbourne, then got a job offer for NSW and moved to NSW in January.

I have sold 4 cars other than this one, i dont usually do anything after handing over the car and getting the money, they usually get it done and thats it.

cut to the main problem.

3 weeks ago i got a text from old renter saying i have letters.

there is 2 traffic infringements

i contact fines victoria, vic roads and then the magistrate court.

i am already getting it out of my name for vicroads.

fines victoria said get an extention from the magistrate.

and now the magistrate cant do anything because they only file applications when they have it in hand not from the date it was signed.

i had 14 days to get it filed however i sent it in the mail because thats what vicroads requested and i thought magistrate are like that too.

apparently they still havent recieved it and its been 14 days and now theres nothing they can do for me.

they are expecting me to pay the fines.

is there anyone else i can message or call to help

Automotive

Comments

  • bobbified on 28/09/2020 - 15:09
    +85

    i dont usually do anything after handing over the car..

    I thought you were meant to complete a "Notice of Disposal" or similar, so that Vicroads know you don't own the car anymore….?

    • impoze on 28/09/2020 - 15:25
      +34

      This.

      You should have done this as soon as you sold the vehicle.

      • Series4Episode10 on 29/09/2020 - 08:02
        +9

        Yeah, you can do your side of it online before they drive away or while they are driving away

    • anonymous01 on 29/09/2020 - 20:45

      Isn't there a transform form you have to fill, along with buyer's details? I can't remember exactly, but it can't be just disposal notice. I had to fill out a form with my details last time I bought a car eons ago..
      As for you OP, just report your car as stolen. Either the buyer will come clean about not doing his part of the duty and pay the fine, or you get your car back and sell it again for double the profit. You may get a little slap on the hands for falsely claiming it as stolen though.

      • bobbified on 29/09/2020 - 20:51
        +1

        In NSW, it's called the Notice of Disposal - you complete the form with the buyer's details. Previously, it was printed on the back of the registration certificate but I'm pretty sure there's an electronic version now. There's an equivalent transfer form Victoria and other states too. Either way, it lets the authority know that you've sold the car and who the new owner is for the exact purpose that OP is complaining about now.

        • anonymous01 on 29/09/2020 - 21:47
          +1

          Ah that makes sense. Thanks. In Victoria it's called "Transfer Form".

        • Brianqpr on 30/09/2020 - 10:19
          +1

          Still on the back of the rego notice but you can also do it instantly online. Sold two cars in the last few weeks so am familiar with the process.

      • bkcandra on 30/09/2020 - 09:14
        +2

        agree you can just pay the fine and report the car as stolen. profit

        im sure that will not make things complicated ;)

    • bmerigan on 29/09/2020 - 22:11
      +1

      When I last sold a car I'm sure the paperwork said it was to be submitted by the buyer.
      I wouldn't take chances though.

    • Brianqpr on 30/09/2020 - 10:17
      +2

      Yep, you can lodge a disposal notice online as soon as the buyer takes the car, as long as you have their licence details. Otherwise you are on risk for anything that happens.

      The buyer then needs to transfer to their name and pay stamp duty and rego transfer fee. I'm assuming if they don't that the notice of disposal should provide the seller with protection in relation to fines etc.

  • Godric on 28/09/2020 - 15:20
    +4

    Welcome to Ozb!

    • WaterMark on 29/09/2020 - 14:21
      +1

      You mean OzFine

  • DannyC on 28/09/2020 - 15:25
    +30

    When selling a vehicle don't you the seller and the buyer have to complete a "Vehicle transfer form" and then notify Vic Roads of this?

    Looks like your out of luck OP: From the Vic Roads website Vic Roads Selling Vehicle

    Step 5: Notify VicRoads of the transfer online: Until VicRoads is notified of a transfer, you are still liable for any traffic offences incurred. To protect yourself, don’t rely on the buyer to notify VicRoads of the transfer, as they have up to 14 days to do so.

    • AustriaBargain on 28/09/2020 - 18:03
      +5

      Ho ho, so Saint OP will have to pay these fines for them? I wonder if the buyer knew that when he committed those offenses. Or if it's just a happy accident.

      • DoctorCalculon on 28/09/2020 - 22:39

        Will the OP also cop the demerit points that come with those fines? Double whammy!

      • Whisper Quiet on 29/09/2020 - 11:24
        +14

        OP just has to fill out a declaration that he wasn't driving. Obviously will be easy to prove being in another state at the time. Buyer of the car will have to pay fine and also probably get fined for not transferring ownership

  • Orico on 28/09/2020 - 15:26
    +12

    The buyer doesn't have to do that, you have to! How irresponsible. lol

    Did this form escape your mind? https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/buy-sell-or-tra…

    • tomsco on 28/09/2020 - 15:39
      +1

      The buyer does have to submit the form. IIRC, that's the point in time VicRoads charges the buyer the stamp duty.

      • Orico on 28/09/2020 - 15:56
        -1

        I'm talking about disposing of the vehicle.

        Yes, there is another section for Buyers in that link above.

        • tomsco on 28/09/2020 - 16:14
          +6

          OK, but the link you posted, the discussion of submitting the paperwork appears to be in regards to the buyer submitting the transfer documentation (talking about fee payments - not seller related).

          It appears from DannyC's link, the seller being able to lodge it is fairly new:

          No more waiting for the buyer to complete the transfer, simply notify VicRoads of your vehicle transfer online via your myVicRoads personal account.

          And is not a requirement. It's an optional, but recommended, step to avoid liability as per the OPs situation.

          It's great, but I don't think it's correct to say that it is OP's responsibility to do it. Again, DannyC's link states:

          the buyer must notify VicRoads of the vehicle transfer within 14 days of taking possession of the vehicle.

  • Caped Baldy on 28/09/2020 - 15:49

    This actually happened to me. Sold my car to a Canberran from NSW. I submitted the notice of disposal in person since it was not possible to do it online since the rego transfer is interstate.
    I received a fine so I'm guessing they didn't do it properly on their end. Fortunately, I had a photo of their licence and was able to transfer the notice to them.
    I hope you've got this or can ask for it.

    Edit: if the buyer hasn't transferred the rego over to vic roads you could possibly say report you car has been stolen. Dunno what the repercussions will be though.

    • endotherm on 28/09/2020 - 20:06
      +4

      Repercussions for perjury? Much worse than the money lost for not following the law and filling out the appropriate paperwork.

      • Caped Baldy on 28/09/2020 - 20:42

        Only perjury if it's under oath.

        The way that I saw it and didn't elaborate on is that OP stills own the car and could be argued that the money was a gift.

        • robberbutton on 28/09/2020 - 21:28
          +3

          The way that I saw it and didn't elaborate on is that OP stills own the car and could be argued that the money was a gift.

          That's an argument you're going to lose… Not perjury, but definitely filing a false report if you report it stolen.

  • CyberMurning on 28/09/2020 - 16:28
    +4

    he got confused selling car and iphone

    • [Deactivated] on 29/09/2020 - 20:17

      probably both

  • pegaxs on 28/09/2020 - 16:42
    +8

    Bought a bike off a bloke on the weekend and I think I might send him the link to this page.

    I got him to sign a receipt for payment and the back of the transfer papers and told him to transfer it online straight away so I can do it online… He then asked "why? not my problem once it's sold" and OP's story is nearly verbatim what I told him. He didn't want any of my details, and I just said "and what if I get a fine on the way home or in the next week???"

    People, this is the reason at the time of sale of any motor vehicle, you need the owners details and the buyers details (depending on what side of the transaction you are on.). Even if you have to use a crayon on a piece of kitchen paper towel, get something in writing with the new owners details on it and transfer the car online as soon as you get back inside.

    • abb on 28/09/2020 - 17:48
      +14

      He didn't want any of my details, so I rode laps on the M7 at 250km/h for the rest of the day

      • [Deactivated] on 29/09/2020 - 20:20
        -3

        you could've gotten arrested

    • Muzeeb on 28/09/2020 - 19:03

      Which bike?

      • pegaxs on 28/09/2020 - 20:07
        +10

        Super Soco CUx. Electric scooter… not that I could get too many speeding tickets, as it only does 50km/h flat out. Just need to find a downhill run that goes through a school zone…

        • the4thzodiac on 30/09/2020 - 15:38

          Does this require rego?

          • pegaxs on 30/09/2020 - 16:30
            +1

            @the4thzodiac: In NSW it does. I am not sure in other states. I know in Qld. it can be driven on a car license as it is tuned down to the same as a 50cc scooter. (That being said, it blows my Vespa 150 to the weeds from a standing start. It just doesn't go over 50km/h)

    • derrida derider on 30/09/2020 - 14:03
      +2

      My procedure both when buying or selling is to lay both parties' DLs, the rego papers (including signed disposal form) and the receipt all together on a table and both parties then photograph them. That protects everyone - once that's explained I've never had an objection by either seller or purchaser.

  • foxmulder on 28/09/2020 - 17:19

    I thought regardless you didn't transfer the name, in that penalty notice you can nominate the buyer name as the car is no longer with you?

    • Presence on 28/09/2020 - 17:26

      No - how do you know who was driving the car at the time, you have no idea unfortuantly.

      • Timm on 28/09/2020 - 18:04
        -1

        You don't have to know who was driving, you nominate the person you sold it to as the owner of the car, then it's their responsibility to nominate a driver.

  • garetz on 28/09/2020 - 18:14
    -3

    If you can prove you were out of state, and in no way able to be driving the vehicle when the fine was issued, then they cant make you pay the fine.

    it doesnt matter whos name was on the car, what matters is who was driving it.

    • macdaddyjordan on 29/09/2020 - 14:24
      +1

      it definitely matters who's name is on the registration as liability falls back onto the registered owner if a another person is not identified

      otherwise anyone can say i don't know who was driving the car and then the fine magically goes away

      he has been made liable of fine, not for driving, for failing to nominate the person by the due date

      this is how it is in victoria, i'm not sure how it is interstate

  • Tee Rex Arms on 28/09/2020 - 18:17

    Sounds like a headache

  • Ryanek on 28/09/2020 - 18:28

    Sounds like you still legally own the car. I'd get it back.

    • burningrage on 28/09/2020 - 18:35

      and that's the one I was thinking of to. You would still legally be owning the car so get that back until he pays the fine.

    • kipps on 28/09/2020 - 19:42
      +2

      Registration isn’t proof of ownership.

      • burningrage on 28/09/2020 - 21:03

        Did OP give a receipt to the buyer? lol

  • burningrage on 28/09/2020 - 18:35
    +5

    I don't understand it.

    Surely you would have given Vicroads the Vehicle Transfer Form. It is in your interest to do so because you'll get back the pro-rata Rego fee back.

    So if you have done that, how could this have happened?

    Sorry to hear this OP.

    • knasty on 28/09/2020 - 19:58
      +1

      Apparently not…seems like a lot of people take the money and run.

      • burningrage on 28/09/2020 - 21:01
        +1

        Well.. that is quite silly of OP if he did that especially when he said he has done selling 4 cars before.

        I hope this is a lesson to be learned.

    • bmerigan on 29/09/2020 - 22:15

      Rego fee refund? Aren't most cars sold with registration?

      • derrida derider on 30/09/2020 - 14:06

        But you still get the pro rata rego back after the buyer pays theirs (which they have 14 days to do). Otherwise the state would be collecting two sets of rego fees for the same period.

        • bmerigan on 30/09/2020 - 17:29

          Maybe it changes per state because that doesn't sound right for Vic. I see no need for the buyer to pay rego again.
          Plenty of car ads the amount of rego months left is a selling point.

  • ShortyX on 28/09/2020 - 19:15
    +1

    Member Since 5 hours 26 min

  • Cave Fire on 28/09/2020 - 20:24
    +1

    Police can flag your plates. If they scan the driver out somewhere they can at least fine him for unrego driving. I'm guessing you have cancelled the plate with Vicroads. This can be done online or over the phone. Most fines have a number on the back to call. If that department gets a signed stat dec saying you are not the driver, they are supposed to cancel the fine. They might say otherwise, but this is all that's needed. Your fines have gone to the court though… so I would think you need some legal advice as well.

    • robberbutton on 28/09/2020 - 21:33
      +1

      If that department gets a signed stat dec saying you are not the driver, they are supposed to cancel the fine.

      That's correct, but only for a certain timeframe. Once the initial infringement notice is due, you can no longer submit a declaration (that's the limit in NSW at least, though the OP has indicated they've received similar information already from the VIC courts).

      • Cave Fire on 28/09/2020 - 21:51

        Yep, did say the fines had gone to court. Op may have more incoming though. When this happened to me I had a few overdue toll fines and a Stat Dec is what cleared them.

    • Euphemistic on 29/09/2020 - 05:28
      +2

      If that department gets a signed stat dec saying you are not the driver, they are supposed to cancel the fine.

      How can it be that easy? Surely they link the fine to the owner. If the owner wasn’t driving, they still want to know who was driving so they can get their revenue.

      If it were that easy everyone would send in a stat dec and no fines would be paid.

      • tomsco on 29/09/2020 - 08:59

        Yeh, would expect you have to nominate the driver.

        Different to private car parks where they have to identify who was the driver, therefore who the contract was formed with, but as far as traffic offenses are concerned, if the driver isn't identified, I believe the owner is liable.

      • Cave Fire on 29/09/2020 - 11:32

        Sorry late night post… The OP would put down he sold the vehicle in Dec 2019 and was not driving or something similar. Penalty if you get caught for lying on a Stat Dec is worse than a few basic toll fines. Mine were toll and council fines that it worked for. And it also took a couple of phone calls to each organisation.

        • Euphemistic on 29/09/2020 - 12:13
          +1

          Traffic infringements are different to tolls and council fines.

  • alxr0101 on 29/09/2020 - 07:06

    Can OP cancel the registration still?

    • kerfuffle on 29/09/2020 - 07:13

      Don't you need to hand the plates back to VicRoads in order to cancel your registration?

    • Euphemistic on 29/09/2020 - 08:35
      +2

      i am already getting it out of my name for vicroads.

  • brad1-8tsi on 29/09/2020 - 08:35

    OP member since…

    Pay the fine or go to court and fall at their mercy. They might feel sorry for if you explain how the education system has failed you and you don't have the ability to follow instructions.

    • tomsco on 29/09/2020 - 09:01

      What do you mean. Traditionally, it's been the buyers responsibility to lodge the paperwork with VicRoads and pay the stamp duty. I know in the past I've never notified VicRoads and have had no issue.

      Knowing what I know now from hearing interstate stories, I'm glad VicRoads now give the option to notify them via the online portal, but I don't think this is a case of OP not following instructions.

      • brad1-8tsi on 29/09/2020 - 09:10
        -1

        Unless Victoria is extremely behind the times compared to NSW (I don't think they are), there has always been a section on the back of the registration papers that says:
        "NOTICE of DISPOSAL. Seller to fill out this section, tear off and lodge with (RTA/RMS/DoT/relevant authority)". It was there in 1980 when I sold my first car. My Dad said "fill this out or you will get all the fines if they don't register it in their name"

        There is also the section on the rego papers "buyer to fill this section and lodge with…"

        You can't honestly be saying that a Notice of Disposal is a new thing in Vic?

        Would any other old codger that's sold a few cars care to confirm the Victorian situation?

        • tomsco on 29/09/2020 - 10:47
          +1

          You can't honestly be saying that a Notice of Disposal is a new thing in Vic?

          As a Victorian, yes. Well at least the online option.

          It may have always been an option to submit as the seller, but the process has always been on the buyer to submit the paperwork, so saying

          explain how the education system has failed you and you don't have the ability to follow instructions.

          is disingenuous.

    • stephendt on 30/09/2020 - 09:50
      -1

      Savage.

  • 87percent on 29/09/2020 - 08:42
    +3

    Just blame coronavirus

  • Brainwhacker on 29/09/2020 - 08:43

    If OP doesn’t have a choice with the fines Payment, an option may be to lodge claim with small claims tribunal against the buyer - will be a very time consuming /painful and slow process

  • OzHunterNSW on 29/09/2020 - 10:34
    +2

    It is your responsibility to notify the Traffic Authority within two weeks of vehicle transfer.

    Why have you not done this?

    The only possible recourse is to prove bill of sale. Bank deposit. Written transfer, etc. You do have this documentation, don't you?

    Failing this, you then have to prove you were not the driver. Proof of you being interstate would be a bonus. You do have proof, don't you?

    And finally, hope this teaches you a lesson.

  • Spending2Much on 29/09/2020 - 13:44
    +4

    Member Since
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    Last Seen
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    Statistics
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    • bmerigan on 29/09/2020 - 22:16
      -2

      So?

      • Spending2Much on 30/09/2020 - 03:46
        +2

        And not one reply or response or comment since the posting….in fact, hasn't even logged in since the 28th and the single post.

    • humbala on 30/09/2020 - 09:21
      +4

      Plot twist - op is the buyer and want to know if he can get away with all the speeding fine

  • Zachary on 29/09/2020 - 13:45
    -4

    Tell them to fook off, not your problem since you dont have the car, dont intend to drive the car and its the buyer's problem now. And block them. And that should shut them up…

    • Euphemistic on 29/09/2020 - 13:57
      +2

      Does that work with fines from a govt authority?

      • tomsco on 29/09/2020 - 17:54
        +4

        Just ask the sovereign citizens that do not consent.

        • Euphemistic on 29/09/2020 - 19:27
          +2

          Ahh yes. Those ‘special’ people that think they’ve found a magical clause in the laws that means they are exempt and yet still partake in all of the benefits of government and taxation - health and roads to name a couple.

      • Zachary on 02/10/2020 - 19:19

        Just ignore - what are they gonna do? Take your car away even though you dont even have the car anymore?

        • Euphemistic on 02/10/2020 - 20:03

          First they add late fees, then they cancel your licence and probably rego, eventually they send the sheriff for your stuff.

          • Zachary on 18/10/2020 - 03:44

            @Euphemistic: OOooh really? I take it that you've ha experience personally…./

    • Willco88 on 03/10/2020 - 16:48

      Doesn't with legally he still owns the car and is responsible

  • wiipantz on 29/09/2020 - 14:53
    +2

    Pfffttt… suffer in ya jocks

  • gimme on 30/09/2020 - 01:27

    This is clearly Shopback's fault. Call the privacy commissioner.

  • Ronthecrypto on 30/09/2020 - 09:11

    I have similar experience. Buyer used car without transferring for 9 months and I discovered when I got rego via post.
    I went to VicRoads right away they did transfer and advised even if I am the seller I was meant to notify VIC roads.

  • smartazz104 on 30/09/2020 - 10:00

    I have sold 4 cars other than this one, i dont usually do anything after handing over the car and getting the money, they usually get it done and thats it.

    Lucky those people never got a fine I guess…

  • tessel on 30/09/2020 - 12:12

    You (profanity) up. Lesson learnt.

  • trapper on 30/09/2020 - 14:41

    I have sold 4 cars other than this one, i dont usually do anything after handing over the car and getting the money, they usually get it done and thats it.

    Sound like you have another four cars to follow up on too then.

  • Willco88 on 30/09/2020 - 14:56

    This is why I always notify the RTA of selling any vehicle.
    You CANNOT rely on the new owner to do it as some people buy just to sell it on not to register it.

    Also I never sell without all the new owners details and/or signed bill of sale.

    Here in SA half of the registration papers has a notice of disposal form attached which needs to be handed in within 14 days but now it's all done online :)

  • No ONE on 30/09/2020 - 14:56

    Where is your freaking responsibility. Not sure in other states, but in NSW, buyer cannot transfer online unless seller have submitted notice of disposal, they would have to visit the RMS to do so.

    I would say the fine is valid and should be posted by you for negligence.

    • tomsco on 30/09/2020 - 19:43

      You’re assuming the NSW system is the same as the Victorian system.

      • No ONE on 30/09/2020 - 20:47

        Nah, fk the Victoria system. They don't do online transfer of ownership at all as far as I know.

        • tomsco on 01/10/2020 - 10:48

          Reread OP. Car was sold in Victoria so Victorian system applies.

  • funnysht on 30/09/2020 - 19:00

    Usually you have to complete a notice of disposal so if you havent done that you can be liable

    But really a magistrate should be compassionate and get you to sign a statutory of declaration that you werent driving etc and it should be thrown out. Money hungry authorities….

  • Wallyt99 on 30/09/2020 - 20:24

    Try referencing 'the Postal rule' to the magistrate.

    In a legal sense, documents are considered effective from the day they are sent, not the day they are received.

    If you legitimately sent it prior to the 14 days you should be fine.

  • Willco88 on 03/10/2020 - 16:49

    Hard lesson to learn

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